[G2 and Desire Z General] Authorita:
Jan 12 21:27:20 <teferi>	what have you guys been doing?

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Jan 12 21:29:17 <NardtheBard__>	we got the open source prima driver to load

Jan 12 21:29:21 <NardtheBard__>	but it's buggy

Jan 12 21:29:50 <NardtheBard__>	found a flag in userspace that might fix the bug and/or fix tethering with the closed source blob

Jan 12 21:30:06 <NardtheBard__>	building it now, cleared my caches so it may take awhile

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Jan 12 21:31:08 <NardtheBard__>	you have to disable signature checking in riva and then load a matching set of firmware for the driver

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Jan 12 21:38:48 <teferi>	iinterestng.

Jan 12 21:38:53 <teferi>	so you got it loaded and *working*?

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Jan 12 22:23:49 <NardtheBard_>	yes it moves data

Jan 12 22:23:56 <teferi>	fascinating.

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Jan 12 22:27:46 <NardtheBard_>	all we did was copy the work on the ville

Jan 12 23:52:41 <NardtheBard_>	Eugene_373: your comment earlier about dirty driver unloads gave me an idea

Jan 12 23:53:21 <NardtheBard_>	I unloaded the driver with the -rw flag and it worked when I reloaded it. I wonder if recompiling the kernel with dirty driver unloads would solve the problem

Jan 12 23:53:26 <NardtheBard_>	but for now, bed

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Jan 13 10:37:53 <NardtheBard_>	teferi: can you think of a way to tell the system to wait a bit when unloading the prima driver? Disabling force unload isn't the answer, most other androids have it enabled

Jan 13 11:57:44 <NardtheBard_>	ok so after further testing, it has nothing to do with how cleanly the driver unloads

Jan 13 11:58:02 <NardtheBard_>	when I turn wifi off, the driver remains loaded

Jan 13 11:58:18 <NardtheBard_>	when i turn it back on it attempts to restart the driver and it hangs on that

Jan 13 11:58:31 <NardtheBard_>	when i manually unload the driver i can turn wifi, and even tethering on

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Jan 13 13:10:59 <NardtheBard>	hmm, the driver has code to let userspace handle a driver reload when it's a module, otherwise it does it's thing

Jan 13 13:11:23 <NardtheBard>	I'm going to blame the d2 inheritance

Jan 13 13:13:08 <Hymie>	YES! the inheritance tax! finally, someone listening to me any my complaints! You're right NardtheBardm, it should be upped to 1M at least!

Jan 13 13:13:13 <Hymie>	thank god, I felt so alone

Jan 13 13:14:18 <bkero>	hmm?

Jan 13 13:14:24 <bkero>	I'm a fan of an inheritance ax.

Jan 13 13:14:29 <bkero>	tax

Jan 13 13:14:38 <bkero>	100% inheritance tax.

Jan 13 13:14:39 <Hymie>	yes, that too -- if my grandparents don't pass on soon, I'll

Jan 13 13:14:40 <Hymie>	oh

Jan 13 13:14:43 <NardtheBard>	inheritance ax, for when you can't wait for natural causes

Jan 13 13:14:58 <NardtheBard>	damn Hymie beat me

Jan 13 13:15:28 <NardtheBard>	100% inheritance tax? that's just going to penalize the stupid

Jan 13 13:15:42 <NardtheBard>	the rich would still set up corporations and trusts to convey wealth

Jan 13 13:16:08 <bkero>	Which get double taxed anyways

Jan 13 13:16:27 <NardtheBard>	I read about a scam that's ingenious

Jan 13 13:16:41 <NardtheBard>	Nevada and Delaware allow anoymous corporations

Jan 13 13:16:56 <NardtheBard>	overseas tax shelters do not

Jan 13 13:17:07 <Hymie>	you know what I find amusing? I'm a Canadian, and up here, there was no property tax until WWI, when it was setup to pay for the war effort (and, then never removed). And, at that time, almost all tax was paid for by corporations

Jan 13 13:17:19 <Hymie>	of course, back then, we didn't have paved roads, or 1000 other things we do now

Jan 13 13:17:19 <NardtheBard>	But you can have your anonymous Nevada corporation own your overseas tax shelter

Jan 13 13:17:27 <Hymie>	my grandparents used to have to maintain their own road

Jan 13 13:17:35 <Hymie>	but, cars were new then

Jan 13 13:17:55 <Hymie>	but what really erks me is taxing one thing, and using it to pay for another

Jan 13 13:18:16 <Hymie>	I pay a gas tax up here, and you guys do to.. it bothers me that every dollar taken in a gas tax, isn't used on road maintenenace

Jan 13 13:18:22 <NardtheBard>	so all bridges would be toll bridges in your world?

Jan 13 13:18:34 <Hymie>	we also have IE (employement insurace).. that gets used for other funds too

Jan 13 13:18:44 <Hymie>	don't need toll bridges, the gas tax more than covers everything

Jan 13 13:18:54 <NardtheBard>	the CIA would fund itself entirely through selling drugs (which they do anyway)

Jan 13 13:19:28 <Hymie>	but, what's really happened is that in the last 100 years

Jan 13 13:19:33 <Hymie>	corporations used to pay most of the tax

Jan 13 13:19:47 <Hymie>	then, that was shifted from corporate shoulders, to indivdiausl -- but here's the nasty part.

Jan 13 13:19:55 <NardtheBard>	we also allowed them to get filthy stinking rich by abusing the masses

Jan 13 13:20:00 <NardtheBard>	so they could afford that tax

Jan 13 13:20:03 <Hymie>	they still paid the tax, because of course that tax makes up wages, which makes up the cost of part of their budget

Jan 13 13:20:30 <Hymie>	unfortunately, with outsources, corproations have entirely gotten around paying any tax. That's what outsourcing is, more than anything. A way to get around paying domestic income tax

Jan 13 13:21:01 <NardtheBard>	sure, Apple in China charges $600 for a $650 iphone

Jan 13 13:21:11 <NardtheBard>	so Apple US only logs a $50 profit

Jan 13 13:21:18 <Hymie>	(eg since domestic employee's income tax used to come out of domestic company's coffers, and now it doesn't)

Jan 13 13:21:43 <Hymie>	that's not what I'm referring to though, I'm referring to the income tax you pay, which is part of your wage, which is part of what a company pays you

Jan 13 13:22:07 <Hymie>	eg the company that pays your wage is still paying the lion's share of the tax roll

Jan 13 13:22:48 <Hymie>	the real enemy to taxation is free trade, it's a crock

Jan 13 13:22:53 <Hymie>	yes, sure, it helps to have free trade

Jan 13 13:23:03 <Hymie>	that's certainly true, and definitely a job creator

Jan 13 13:23:17 <Hymie>	but it's being abused, as in any imperfect scenario, by companies seeking lower tax shelters

Jan 13 13:23:40 <Hymie>	the real goal should be to get companies like china to tax morem, and use that tax to pay for roads, health care, etc... then they would be less competitive. ;)

Jan 13 13:24:09 <NardtheBard>	well look at NAFTA. Cotton is grown in the US, it is shipped to Mexico tax-free to make underwear, which is then shipped to Canada tax-free to sell

Jan 13 13:24:19 <Hymie>	or, we could just put duty on anything coming from china, AND COLLECT A STIPEDEND BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF TAX COLLECTED!

Jan 13 13:24:26 <Hymie>	yup

Jan 13 13:24:29 <NardtheBard>	but the price of underwear didn't come down just because they eliminated the tax

Jan 13 13:24:43 <Hymie>	mexico is the real problem in that equation though. the wage differential

Jan 13 13:24:56 <Hymie>	and notice -- that has decreased markedly over the last 20 years

Jan 13 13:25:18 <Hymie>	free trade is a way to increase the plight of the poor, and this is true of chian too

Jan 13 13:25:29 <Hymie>	it actually has a middle class now, and wages are increasing dramatically

Jan 13 13:25:33 <Hymie>	eventually, china will be like japan

Jan 13 13:25:40 <Hymie>	eg not cheap labour any more

Jan 13 13:25:50 <Hymie>	taxing like any other juristicion

Jan 13 13:26:21 <Hymie>	the real enemy is the bank

Jan 13 13:26:27 <Hymie>	the bank councils governments to borrow money

Jan 13 13:26:51 <Hymie>	"how should we forge economic policy", the government asks economists -- and, the lead economists are, wait for it, bankers

Jan 13 13:26:57 <Hymie>	which make trillions loaning to governments

Jan 13 13:27:03 <Hymie>	so, what is the suggestion banks make?

Jan 13 13:27:07 <Hymie>	"borrow the money"

Jan 13 13:27:28 <NardtheBard>	I was reading about how ironically China is losing jobs to Indonesia

Jan 13 13:27:51 <Hymie>	all of our textbooks are literally written by lead economists, all of our future economists in top knotch schools are taught by leading economists, and all those leading economists work for .... banks and investment houses

Jan 13 13:27:56 <Hymie>	that I can believe

Jan 13 13:28:04 <Hymie>	their wages have gone up quite a bit...

Jan 13 13:28:16 <NardtheBard>	eventually all manufacturing will be done in Africa

Jan 13 13:28:29 <Hymie>	until they become better off ;D

Jan 13 13:28:32 <NardtheBard>	but what happens when wages in Africa come up to world standards

Jan 13 13:28:35 <NardtheBard>	yes dammit

Jan 13 13:28:36 <Hymie>	it's just a merry go round

Jan 13 13:28:51 <Hymie>	but, here's the problem, the fact that few people will be doing manual labour soon

Jan 13 13:29:03 <Hymie>	what happens when walmart lays off 80% of its workforce over the next 5 years?

Jan 13 13:29:14 <Hymie>	as it mechanisizes almost all aspects of its operation?

Jan 13 13:29:26 <Hymie>	what happens when trucks auto-drive freight around?

Jan 13 13:29:30 <Hymie>	mining is 100% automated?

Jan 13 13:29:49 <NardtheBard>	You know why George Jetson couldn't be fired, right?

Jan 13 13:29:52 <Hymie>	and, with innovation in computer tech, even white collar jobs are disappearing

Jan 13 13:29:56 <Hymie>	the button :P

Jan 13 13:30:01 <Hymie>	that I do recall

Jan 13 13:30:07 <Hymie>	what is a union thing?

Jan 13 13:30:12 <NardtheBard>	He was considered a menial laborer because he did physical work

Jan 13 13:30:22 <Hymie>	right, heh

Jan 13 13:31:30 <NardtheBard>	ok so you've hit the nail on the head

Jan 13 13:32:01 <NardtheBard>	the poor become rich by selling their labor

Jan 13 13:32:09 <NardtheBard>	this is an economic bedrock

Jan 13 13:32:19 <NardtheBard>	what happens when the labor is not necessary?

Jan 13 13:32:52 <bkero>	The poor do not become rich by sellinf their labor.

Jan 13 13:32:58 <bkero>	The poor sustain themselves by selling their labor.

Jan 13 13:32:58 <NardtheBard>	you have a huge class of unemployable people, people who otherwise would be perfectly employable

Jan 13 13:33:29 <NardtheBard>	ok fair enough

Jan 13 13:33:51 <Hymie>	http://marshallbrain.com/robots-in-2015.htm

Jan 13 13:33:55 *	Hymie checks

Jan 13 13:33:57 <Hymie>	this seems like it

Jan 13 13:34:01 <Hymie>	was written a decade ago

Jan 13 13:34:11 <NardtheBard>	and job retraining only works so much, there are only so many tech jobs, and lots of people just aren't capable of doing tech jobs

Jan 13 13:34:30 <NardtheBard>	I say we identify such people, and give them a budget to drink their sorrows away

Jan 13 13:35:08 <Hymie>	http://marshallbrain.com/robotic-nation.htm

Jan 13 13:35:11 <Hymie>	here's where to start

Jan 13 13:35:20 <Hymie>	the guy breaks it down into manual labour jobs that can be replaced

Jan 13 13:35:27 <Hymie>	by robots, etc

Jan 13 13:36:12 <Hymie>	yes, there is that.. but, if you kill 1/2 the population because they are too stupid, then you reduce those consuming products, which means that of the remaining population .. 1/2 as many jobs will be available for white collar work

Jan 13 13:37:11 <Hymie>

Jan 13 13:38:02 <Hymie>	here's the truth in this guy's article. He says that at some point, some big retailer will introduce automated inventory management. RFID tags plus robots and automated checkouts, etc. And, if one retailer does it, and reaps the savings, than any other retailer that wants to stay in business will have to follow

Jan 13 13:38:05 <Hymie>

Jan 13 13:38:30 <Hymie>	whivh is precisely what happened with exporting our production to china. Walmart started it, but everyone had to follow, otherwise their product would be too expensive

Jan 13 13:38:40 <Hymie>	so, that said, the same is true of any fast food restaraunt

Jan 13 13:39:23 <Hymie>	the first to use automated machines to cook fries and big macs, and turn 70 employees in a restaruant into 2, will force the rest to follow

Jan 13 13:40:09 <NardtheBard>	****ing samsung

Jan 13 13:40:19 <Hymie>	yes, their robots will be the biggest part of the problem!

Jan 13 13:40:30 <NardtheBard>	the driver's not unloading because of d2 inheritance on wifi

Jan 13 13:40:33 <Hymie>	they'll be closed source, and buggy, and we'll end up with them trying to take over the world

Jan 13 13:40:40 <Hymie>	oh

Jan 13 13:40:40 <Hymie>	that

Jan 13 13:42:30 <NardtheBard>	we really should break free from that and combine our *3* folders into one device folder

Jan 13 13:46:11 <NardtheBard>	there's only one solution really

Jan 13 13:48:46 <NardtheBard>	let the module handle its own reloading if userspace won't cooperate

Jan 13 13:52:21 <NardtheBard>	that article doesn't say when I can buy a fully functional sexbot

Jan 13 14:09:20 <Hymie>	heh

Jan 13 14:10:37 <NardtheBard>	well I can add a custom wifi.c to force the driver to unload when it loads

Jan 13 14:10:47 <NardtheBard>	seems like there should be a better solution

Jan 13 14:11:09 <NardtheBard>	that doesn't actually solve the problem, it keeps it loaded all the time

Jan 13 14:59:07 <NardtheBard>	hm, in cm-10.1 it looks like they eliminated the check to see if the wifi driver is already loaded before loading it again

Jan 13 14:59:46 <NardtheBard>	I wish I knew someone who owned a One S to ask them if the prima driver stays loaded all the time

Jan 13 15:07:58 <NardtheBard>	From the looks of it they never bothered trying to use the open source prima driver in ics

Jan 13 15:35:46 <NardtheBard>	what were the reasons we weren't on cm 10? I know it was Samsung blobs, we got wifi down, what else was there? ;p

Jan 13 15:59:21 <NardtheBard>	ok the ville guys say they haven't done anything special to make the driver unload after use

Jan 13 15:59:36 <NardtheBard>	so I'm thinking it's just some bug in cm9

Jan 13 16:02:48 <NardtheBard>	that's up to 2 the list of unfixable stuff due to CM9

Jan 13 16:02:54 <NardtheBard>	multi-part SMS and now this

Jan 13 16:31:10 <Hymie>	cm9 is not very polished

Jan 13 16:31:15 <Hymie>	every rom I've seen shows that

Jan 13 16:31:19 <Hymie>	so I wouldn't be surprised

Jan 13 17:00:34 <opticron>	well, it was the slightly polished version of honeycomb

Jan 13 17:01:04 <opticron>	there's good reason they didn't release HC source until it was not worth touching

Jan 13 19:00:26 <NardtheBard>	oh ffs that's subtle

Jan 13 19:00:47 <NardtheBard>	cyanogenmod loads wifi modules by absolute path, but it unloads them by module name

Jan 13 19:01:27 <NardtheBard>	guess who said "why the **** do we *need* that symlink?"

Jan 13 19:01:43 <opticron>	lol

Jan 13 19:13:42 <NardtheBard>	actually it's samsung's fault. they magically named their prima_wlan module as wlan internally, which confused the hell out of me

Jan 13 19:14:23 <NardtheBard>	and then they set up the symlink to perpetuate the magic

Jan 13 19:16:33 <NardtheBard>	For the life of me I can't figure out how or *why* they'd do that

Jan 13 19:57:36 <NardtheBard>	Eugene_373: Samsung sucks soooo bad. The driver wasn't unloading because we have our environment set up to use their driver which magically uses a different name internally

Jan 13 19:58:38 <NardtheBard>	in other news, the open source prima driver now works 100%, tethering and wifi p2p turn on, they *should work*

Jan 13 19:59:35 <NardtheBard>	as soon as I can figure out github I'll push it up, and then teferi will release it in about 3 months ;)

Jan 13 20:58:06 *	opticron applauds

Jan 13 21:05:31 *	dippingsauce bows

Jan 13 21:10:06 <NardtheBard>	no I take that back

Jan 13 21:10:11 <NardtheBard>	tethering works, wifi direct doesn't

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Jan 13 22:15:47 <opticron>	wifi direct as in wireless display?

Jan 13 22:18:36 <opticron>	nvm

Jan 13 22:20:06 <NardtheBard_>	now i'm even more confused

Jan 13 22:20:52 <opticron>	I'm confusing two different things

Jan 13 22:21:04 <NardtheBard_>	Well that's not what's confusing me :)

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Jan 14 11:49:30 <somebody>	What is the application of wifi direct?

Jan 14 11:50:14 <teferi>	device to device communication

Jan 14 11:50:21 <teferi>	like wifi ad-hoc mode or a bluetooth pair

Jan 14 11:50:54 <somebody>	I get that, but what can it actually be used for on an Android device?

Jan 14 11:51:36 <teferi>	sharing files, contacts, that sort of thing

Jan 14 11:53:14 <somebody>	is BT not better for these things? Or are we talking BT3 == wifi direct?

Jan 14 11:57:59 <teferi>	different standards group, mang

Jan 14 11:58:05 <teferi>	don't ask me to try and divine their motivation

Jan 14 11:58:47 <somebody>	Ah, so I see you must be as frustrated with the competitive protocols converging while simultaneously diverging as I am.

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Jan 14 14:57:39 <NardtheBard>	sigh

Jan 14 14:58:51 <somebody>	All ok NardtheBard?

Jan 14 15:07:30 <Kanerix>	Has it been reported that Wifi Tethering doesn't work?

Jan 14 15:09:28 <somebody>	On the 12/8 build? I believe that is well known. Big work going on wrt wifi drivers.

Jan 14 15:10:04 <Kanerix>	My buddy needed to do something on his iphone but had no cell signal

Jan 14 15:10:13 <Kanerix>	I had about a 14 megabit connection at the time

Jan 14 15:10:26 <Kanerix>	and his iphone was retarded vs bluetooth tethering

Jan 14 15:10:45 <Kanerix>	bluetooth tethering works great with other devices, so it's not my phone

Jan 14 15:10:59 <Kanerix>	Went to try wifi and it had issues.

Jan 14 15:11:07 <Kanerix>	So I'm glad that's known and worked on =)

Jan 14 15:13:04 <somebody>	Nard reported tethering functional yesterday evening with the 'now working' open source prima driver.

Jan 14 15:19:29 <NardtheBard>	i can get tethering to turn on

Jan 14 15:19:37 <NardtheBard>	it doesn't actually work

Jan 14 15:22:16 <NardtheBard>	and the functionality changes depending on which name you build the module with

Jan 14 15:23:35 <NardtheBard>	i'm going to run the sammy .so's through strings and look for wlan and prima

Jan 14 15:26:40 <NardtheBard>	we were operating under the assumption the problem was in the wifi driver

Jan 14 15:26:52 <NardtheBard>	hence the sigh

Jan 14 15:29:17 <somebody>	I'm gathering that the driver loads, once, but doesn't unload as a result of the different name?

Jan 14 15:29:39 <NardtheBard>	no that was an easily solved problem

Jan 14 15:29:50 <NardtheBard>	i just changed the name

Jan 14 15:30:11 <NardtheBard>	and discovered something in the process

Jan 14 15:31:02 <NardtheBard>	when you build the driver as prima_wlan tethering turns on but doesn't work

Jan 14 15:31:31 <NardtheBard>	and p2p throws errors about being unable to load firmware

Jan 14 15:32:14 <NardtheBard>	when you build it as wlan it behaves exactly like the stock driver

Jan 14 15:32:44 <NardtheBard>	tethering and p2p simply refuse to turn on without throwing any errors

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Jan 14 15:34:14 <Nardthe45>	this whole time we assumed it was a driver issue

Jan 14 15:34:45 <somebody>	So.. the blob is asking the driver "whats my name" and saying "get bent" if it doesn't like it?

Jan 14 15:35:11 <Nardthe45>	kind of

Jan 14 15:35:35 <Nardthe45>	it's got to be a lib or permissions issue

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Jan 14 15:46:04 <somebody>	What are the blobs and where do they run? Not in the kernel, I hope...

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Jan 14 15:50:04 <NardtheBard>	not sure, we have people here who understand this stuff

Jan 14 15:52:06 <NardtheBard>	But someone will discover the answer I'm sure

Jan 14 15:52:46 <NardtheBard>	but I can quite definitely say the wifi driver is not the source of the inability to tether

Jan 14 15:54:53 <somebody>	I guess I'm not clear on HOW the wifi can work, but tethering not.. tethering is just wifi + DHCP + NAT (iptables).

Jan 14 15:56:42 <somebody>	And p2p is tethering without the NAT.

Jan 14 16:00:10 <Eugene_373>	Hey NardtheBard

Jan 14 16:00:50 <Eugene_373>	Something I noticed when building as prima_wlan.ko, it wouldn't connect to my router

Jan 14 16:01:11 <Eugene_373>	when I build using wlan & doing the rename it connected fine..

Jan 14 16:01:25 <Eugene_373>	just odd

Jan 14 16:03:50 <somebody>	NardtheBard: have you tried setting up tethering manually? Enable ip_forward, add nat table, hostapd, etc.?

Jan 14 16:05:27 <somebody>	Er, scratch that, forget the forwarding and nat, just see if you can set up hostapd, master mode, set static IP's and see if you can ping it from another wifi device.

Jan 14 16:06:49 <NardtheBard>	Eugene_373: there's a flag in boardcommon config telling android what name to expect for a wifi driver

Jan 14 16:07:00 <NardtheBard>	no need to rename actually

Jan 14 16:07:47 <NardtheBard>	somebody: I know how to enable forwarding but not the rest of that lol

Jan 14 16:09:31 <somebody>	Not difficult. Its home time for me, so gotta run, may be online later. Here's a link that should might help: http://exain.wordpress.com/2011/03/...s-point-using-linux-wifi-lan-cardusb-adapter/

Jan 14 16:09:47 <NardtheBard>	k I'll look

Jan 14 16:10:13 <Eugene_373>	NardtheBard , no I mean it works the same, turns on & everything... just wont connect.

Jan 14 16:10:27 <NardtheBard>	odd, it worked for me

Jan 14 16:10:34 <Eugene_373>	wpa?

Jan 14 16:10:59 <Eugene_373>	well, it's wpa2

Jan 14 16:11:04 <NardtheBard>	you mean just normal wifi? yeah

Jan 14 16:11:39 <Eugene_373>	odd?

Jan 14 16:12:06 <NardtheBard>	Eugene_373: you may have to rebuild your userspace and tell android to look for prima_wlan

Jan 14 16:12:21 <NardtheBard>	that also solves the toggle on off problem

Jan 14 16:12:27 <Eugene_373>	lol yeah I shoould do that

Jan 14 16:13:01 <NardtheBard>	but it also introduces some interesting phenomena

Jan 14 16:13:09 <Eugene_373>	like?

Jan 14 16:13:21 <NardtheBard>	wifi and p2p actually start generating erros

Jan 14 16:13:39 <NardtheBard>	instead of just turning on and doing nothing

Jan 14 16:13:54 <NardtheBard>	or rather hanging while turning on

Jan 14 16:14:38 <NardtheBard>	it is my belief there is something, perhaps in the stock .so's interacting with wlan

Jan 14 16:15:04 <Eugene_373>	oh I'm sure sammy messed it up

Jan 14 16:15:21 <NardtheBard>	so my new theory is we can change the name to prima_wlan and try to get it running

Jan 14 16:15:31 <NardtheBard>	or try to fix it as wlan

Jan 14 16:16:51 <Eugene_373>	I'll have to check it out to see what the errors are being thrown to be any usful

Jan 14 16:19:21 *	NardtheBard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)

Jan 14 16:19:27 *	Nardthe63 (~nard@wikimedia-commons/Nard-the-Bard) has joined #apexqtmo

Jan 14 16:20:49 *	mmallardi (~mmallardi@209.227.8.2) has joined #apexqtmo

Jan 14 16:20:57 *	mmallardi is now known as magamo