yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Atrix 4G General] AnotherBill:
I wasn't involved in the thread on Sourceforge but I have read it a couple of times and I want to say thank you for your attention no matter the outcome. We can be a pushy bunch (me included) but it's because of a number of factors I'm sure you're already aware of (and if your not, read a few threads here and you'll get the gist real quick.)

I second this. While mine isn't locked, I feel as if locking bootloaders should be considered a crime. If the hardware is going to be left behind, let's open it up so that the device can be upgraded externally. We don't need to kill innovation by the public because someone feels the need to lock down devices for whatever reason.
[Atrix 4G General] yusufkaya:
did you get the maint update?
[Atrix 4G General] lehjr:
My point was the answer given is dependent on who was asked about the update, when instead it should have been consistent regardless of who inside of Motorola was giving the answer, whether it was a CSR or "VP of Software Products", and to this day there are no details given beyond that. I realize the guy is just one person in the mix and that he doesn't always have the final say in things, I get that, I do. I also understand that because he put himself out there as a line of communication to the upper management of Motorola, that he pretty much made himself a target of all those that Motorola had just left feeling butthurt and still continue to do so. And I know that no matter what, the same butthurt crowd is always going to find a reason to hold a grudge. But, regardless of his authority and whether the promise of greater transparency was handed down from above or was his alone, this is the one place where he and Motorola have failed to deliver. Even the CSR's, the very people who need information in order to do their job, are given the mushroom treatment. I'm not saying they should have access to every little detail about the inner-workings of the company, but they should at least know a little bit more than someone on the outside looking in or even have an avenue of communication to get answers they don't have. Instead, all they can do is make wild assumptions and refer us to the same updates page that we can access without waiting for them.

Now I realize that Motorola is in a bit of turmoil internally due to restructuring. But don't you think that they would have put a little more thought into this new update knowing what kind of chaos it would bring (cancel major update that people had been waiting several months for, then 3 months later announce a soak test). Even the last soak test brought a certain level of chaos when people were assuming it was ICS.
[Atrix 4G General] madmax59:
motorola is liar company. I don't trust they, i think will never any update for atrix
[Atrix 4G General] twaffle:
but I think that that happened, honestly, because Punit came in and said, in so many words, "Oh, ****...". I' be been at a company when that moment hits. It isn't pretty.

I think that we, on the outside, have a gist of how things where going inside of motorola. It's not like someone can pop in, and fix a situation which involves thousands off people. And at that moment, you have NO idea what your working with. Would we really be happy if Punit anounced he fired everyone for what happened, and now nothing gets updated for 6 months while they hire all new staff?

At this point, I believe motorola actually wants our input. But we have to be able to bring these ideas together, to have them possibly happen.

As an example, providing a high level description of soak test changes is a great idea. Something as vague as "security enhancements to the existing gingerbread distribution" would be awesome.

Now, how does this happen? Meetings, memos, and modifications to procedures. That takes time.

Gopi worked on a simple improvement, and we didn't even have to ask for it. He set up some additional reading to csr's about oss requests.

Things can change. I didn't think they would a month ago. But then punit asked about setting up a hangout. And then gopi took the time to talk to us.

Things aren't great, yet. But this is am incremental improvement over 2012, and if they can continue.. Who knows...

---------- Post added at 01:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 PM ----------

Well, the citizens of whoville. :)

And I am suprised again. Thanks fire coming to check up on us. :)
[Atrix 4G General] lehjr:
And how is that really different than what we're seeing now, and what updates? If you mean software updates for devices, then look at their device updates page and just tell me when the update for any of those devices will roll out, what day, month, even year? What about just finding out if the update is even being worked on at all, not what stage in development, just if anything more than just putting the intention to update on the page has been done.

That's not improved or increased transparency, that is decreased transparency. It's also decreased communication when they selectively answer questions based on whether it's a Verizon device or not, or when it takes months to get a simple answer.

Maybe this mystery "X phone" will fulfill their promise fewer devices and more focus on support, and really, their support couldn't get any worse. But as it stands currently, look at the number of devices in their current lineup and look at how many carry a Verizon logo. Of course that may be due to contractual obligations, or any other reason. But think for a moment, out of all the fanboys you've encountered since the updates were cancelled, out of all of them, how many were on a non-Verizon device. Now think, outside of them, who is going to be willing to take the risk of being stuck in a contract with a Motorola device again after what they did?

If Motorola really wanted our input would they be so trigger happy when it comes to the ban hammer? How many people have they banned from their social media sites just to bury the problems instead of dealing with them?

This should have been pretty obvious, especially given the fallout they're still feeling from canceling updates 3 months ago.

You have to identify the problem before you can even hope to fix it. Maybe things are changing internally, but on outside it looks like they're just burying their heads in the sand.

The very few positives since the cancellation. It's a start, and I know I'm as biased against them as anyone, but it's going to take more than what I'm currently seeing before I put out my torch and put down my pitchfork.
[Atrix 4G General] twaffle:
Do you have any idea how many people Punit is working with here? And that on September 1st, all he knew is what *WE* knew. This isn't a group of a bunch of guys in the other room. This is an entire division of software guys.

Now, don't get me wrong, I agree that status updates are critically important. At this point, he's not posting specifics, in my opinion, because even *HE* doesn't know. How can he judge how efficient these developers can be? Should *he* do the estimations? He's a manager, not an engineer. It's took two months to get just the RAZR's releases streamlined enough to happen. Given that, what makes you think that, if he HAD made our phones a priority and updated, that the codebases for our older phones would have been able to be rolled out? Remember, the guys under him now? Same guys as before. Even worse, LESS of the same guys as before.

Motorola has lost over 33% of their user base over the last year. The fan boys are just that. And yes, if it isn't turned around in the next six months, Motorola will become the property of ZTE, or some other Chinese phone company. Will they pull it off? I have NO idea. If they don't, is it Punit's fault? NO. You can't put a captain in charge of a sinking ship, and ***** that it's all HIS fault that it's still sinking. Hopefully, he can limp this puppy back to dock, but getting all that water out? Repairing the hull? Takes time.

And in case you didn't notice, Mark was fired. And their just getting to be able to fix the customer support issues. And this is why Punit, Gopi? They *could* very well fail. But it's not for lack of trying.

They have identified the problem. Punit all but admited that Motorola LIED. That he never wants the company, or their consumers, to be in this boat again. If he where to post dates right now, what makes you, me, or even HIM, think that the team can meet them? Again, these are the same guys that where there 3 months ago, when we where due 'any day now' for our update. And it turns out, it wasn't done.

I don't think they should be put down. And venting, expressing how utterly ****ty this all is, is absolutely helpful. Pitchfork guys? That's not us. Pitchfork guys WANT them to fail. I don't think any of us want that. But I think many of us think that they very well may fail.

But Punit would more then likely lose his job immediately after an investor reports that the VP of software believes that the software department is in such disarray that they cannot meet a single one of their dates.
[Atrix 4G General] twaffle:
They lost the majority of the 33% they lost in the first six months of 2012. Well before they cancelled software updates.

And as a Senior Engineer who's served as many the project leads, I can tell you it's not quite anything like that.

Judging a software engineer is one of the hardest things to do, in the short term, without pulling out their individual code. Christ, if putting a new VP in charge and having them tell everyone to fix this stuff worked..

Dude.... The word would be a much better place. So, without being able to go backwards in time, what COULD they do to become a successful company moving forward? Showing them how this could happen, working hand in hand with consumers and developers is what they need to know.
[Atrix 4G General] lehjr:
No, despite what has happened, I don't think anyone actually wants to watch Motorola die as that would mean less competition. That said, companies change people all the time, people come and go, the faces and the names on the doors change. And yes, many lost their jobs. But that didn't just happen, someone at some level of the management made that decision. The one thing that doesn't change is that sales are built on a reputation, and when they, as a company, neglect their commitments, they have done irreparable damage to those sales.

And that example of YouTube, sure it may be a better service in the long run, but was anyone ever stuck in a 2-3 year contract with Youtube and have to pay a substantial penalty to get out of that?

edit: To address the very first line of the quote, it doesn't matter how many people Punit Soni is dealing with. You don't get to be VP of anything without having a clear chain of command and knowing how to manage those beneath you.

And even if the update cancellations were an unavoidable consequence of the restructuring, the only thing that Motorola did to make it up to users was to offer a $100 trade in, where people would have to surrender their current device in exchange for giving Motorola another chance to screw them over again. Worse than that, they did so knowing that most of these people would be stuck in a contract, and they even went as far as announcing the program months before they even had the details finalized. And that $100, not long before then, the Atrix 4G was on the list for a $200 trade in for the "business ready devices".

And this whole thing of choosing between Verizon and non Verizon updates. It's not about how much it cost them before, it's about how much it's costing them now. You've seen the numbers. Verizon is CDMA in a world where nearly everyone else is using GSM, so really, they're stuffing all their eggs in a really tiny basket and hoping the bottom doesn't drop out.

Look, I know just 2 weeks ago, you were ranting more than I am now, almost daily, so it isn't like you don't understand where the rest of us are coming from. Now you may have seen what you need to see to comfort your wounds, but I need more. I need to see progress, not just the effort.
[Atrix 4G General] dibeachdude:
The dialog in this forum is truly interesting, but I think a lot of the dialog is wasted about who should have did what. I think Motorola, as a company, could easily rebuild some of the fanbase that they lost by merely acknowledging the type of users that are upset and making some very small concessions.

The people that are upset are mainly the true phone nerds. Many people don't care that their phone OS hasn't been updated. They can run the apps they want, and honesty, many people have no idea what version of Android they are even running. The disgruntled users are the same type of people that appreciate the open source concept.

How can they rebuild confidence in those users? Start by acknowledging the mistake and listening to those users' wishes. That is a different thing than listening to their complaints. Complaints are many, but their wishes are few. Mainly, they, we, want the source for their unfinished work. It's easy to understand a little reluctance to release something that is broken, but I believe that they could pull it off.

They could announce that the Atrix 4G is officially an obsolete device inn twitter product line. That is essentially the truth if they have discontinued development. By doing so, they could continue to work on new products and let Atrix users deal with realistic expectations.

They can also provide an "official" method to deal with the the ICS issue: formally release the source code with a disclaimer. Explain that it is unfinished and has many problems. Caveat emptor. I'm sure that the Motorola attorneys can draft a disclaimer that protects them.

The developers and power users would quickly forget about the broken promises and get to work on what Motorola could not provide, and they would also feel that Motorola actually listened to their complaints. Many might consider buying Motorola for their next phone.

Honestly, it doesn't really sound like a complicated solution to me: no name calling, no finger pointing, just problem solving. This solution would involve minimal effort on Motorola's part. The only hard part is recognizing the mistake and putting a plan in place to the minimize the damage.
[Atrix 4G General] iranterres:
I'm a software engineer, and i can give you my 2 cents so far. Poeple cannot defend motorola, they lied. And as for a software development team, everything is based upon priorities and by my own experience i can tell you that all that moto did was to simply skip atrix's ICS development because the Atrix device was a formula device. in other words, pretty much an experimental device with some features (HD Dock, Lapdock, remote control, webtop) that became too time/resource consuming to spend on, simply as that. Put that together with nividia's being wary about driver releases and board specific files and you get the whole mess. But nevertheless, it's entirely motorola's fault, and trying to explain their reasons for doing that big bull**** it's just a waste of time, too bad now people will avoid them.
[Atrix 4G General] gvarv:
My Atrix is two years old now. Getting a new phone in the next week or so. It will not be a Motorola, because I don't believe that they support their products.
[Atrix 4G General] lehjr:
There are actually 2 main areas Motorola needs to address, those are the first being the cancelled updates, the second being the bootlaoder issue, and both are equally important. As you may recall, there is a newer version of the Atrix 4G featuring a bootloader which is apparently unlockable. Also in the bootloader category are those that started with an unlocked bootloader and ended up with a locked one through an update, such as the Photon 4G.

So the reality is that both of those issues have to be addressed.

That said, I'm not sure the issue is limited do just the nerd crowd. During the time of the cancelled updates, there were hoards of angry users, mostly on Facebook, flooding them with "feedback". As to why that has gone silent, aside from most of those people having been banned from the page, the reality is that those who could move on have already done so, while those who can't are waiting until they can.

Not every user was looking forward to added features of a newer OS, some just wanted a bugfix like not having their phone constantly rebooting or having the device close to turning in to a raging inferno while using the GPS while the battery drained like the gas tank on a 60's big block muscle car. It's just too bad that they put more time and money into marketing the device than they put into supporting it once you got stuck with it.
[Atrix 4G General] rjayflo:
Id rather buy Motorola over HTC
[Atrix 4G General] Jonny Steele:
How long has it been? Prob going to bail on the soak test now too.
[Atrix 4G General] lehjr:
Since the 15th, so a week and a half, almost 2 weeks. Who knows, maybe it's just Motorola's way of trolling us, again. :silly:
[Atrix 4G General] horsage:
When was it supposed to be released? Was there a release date?

I ask because I'm international user, not att.

Thanks.

Enviado desde mi MB860 usando Tapatalk 2
[Atrix 4G General] AnotherBill:
No date was given but it usually takes 2-4 weeks before they start sending emails that those who signed up for the soak are going to get it. Given it's a patch and even referred to as 'small' then I'd be it's going to be next week when the soak actually begins.

BTW...I really hate the phrase 'soak test'...why can't they just call it beta or public test or something.
[Atrix 4G General] orangebubs:
It fits. Ever heard the term "soak the rich"? That's how Motorolla intend it to be read. a "soak test" is to "test" if they can "soak" us. XD
[Atrix 4G General] lehjr:
I like "smoke test" better and there are times it seems more fitting.
[Atrix 4G General] iranterres:
I'd go for "suck test".
[Atrix 4G General] n7slc:
More like "sucker test".
[Atrix 4G General] yp18:
I prefer "wefukedyouoncebuthereisaslightbitofhopesoourcompanydoesntlookasbadasitreallyis" test. Just a personal preference.
[Atrix 4G General] MastaGunZ:
Ok, so its not going to be ICS/JB, but dang when are they gonna actually start the testing...?

I just rooted my Atrix, yay or nay to trying out the leaked build(or actually atrICS v2.0)?
[Atrix 4G General] lehjr:
No one really knows. All we can do is guess based on past experiences, but given that this is supposed to be the "New Motorola", our expectations are supposed to be worse different.
[Atrix 4G General] integraletotale:
If anything noteworthy, it would contain USSD/MMI patches. Who knows what else.
[Atrix 4G General] Lexord:
Just noticed : What if new gb update brings a new kernel, maybe compatible with ics-jb? Would be cool :beer:

Sent from my MB860
[Atrix 4G General] vicfuze:
Doubt it will be an entire new kernel for a maintenance release. Best I am hoping for is the update will be to 2.3.7 and we can get some sort of Webtop running on CM7 based ROMs that are pretty awesome now with HW accel., but I use Webtop/HD dock so stuck now with GB.
[Atrix 4G General] Zeljko1234:
Dream on :)
[Atrix 4G General] twaffle:
They are working on getting approval for our request that they release the development AH20 kernel branch. It might not be able to happen, but it hasn't been denied by any of the technical managers.
[Atrix 4G General] Zeljko1234:
Don't get me wrong, I would like to get this dream become reality :)
[Atrix 4G General] djluis48:
Maybe a locked bootloader.
[Atrix 4G General] Akhileshjj:
It's 14 days since people started to get mails about upgrade... But still no update released... Was there any time frame given in soak test mail?
[Atrix 4G General] Jonny Steele:
Maybe they cancelled, lol
[Atrix 4G General] markwoo:
Lol .atrix is dead I got new phone last week boot loader unloaded now ready start over no more moto still got my atrix .will keep playing with it
[Atrix 4G General] saldirai:
meanwhile, on the other side of the planet:

http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/0...its-hat-releases-ics-for-the-htc-thunderbolt/
[Atrix 4G General] danilocps87:
HTC launched ICS for ThunderBolt yesterday (01/31/13). HTC cancel it in august/2012.

http://www.droid-life.com/2013/01/3...s-ice-cream-sandwich-for-the-htc-thunderbolt/

Thunderbolt is a lower device than Atrix. It has a Single Core 1GHz, 768Mb RAM and a little Adreno 205.

So, if HTC turn back because of this lower device, I really think that Motorola could turn back because of Atrix!
[Atrix 4G General] madmax59:
Motorola isn't HTC
[Atrix 4G General] Nadzlee:
Indeed :/ Really surprised if Motorola would turn its back on Atrix
[Atrix 4G General] danilocps87:
If I understand, "VERIZON approves ICS to HTC ThunderBolt".

So, the problem on Atrix is really Motorola, or is it AT&T???

I think we need start to attack AT&T too! Maybe it that is blocking the ICS release for Atrix!

What do you think about?
[Atrix 4G General] Manoboy:
I agree.
[Atrix 4G General] AnotherBill:
The quality of the two leaks wouldn't have passed QA so it's unlikely it was really submitted to ATT for approval but yes, the carrier does insist on approving upgrades on devices sold by them.
[Atrix 4G General] lehjr:
If it was only one device on one carrier, then maybe, but it wasn't. It was all of their (Motorola's) devices with similar hardware (Tegra 2) across multiple carriers and markets and I doubt they would have even started working on the update if they weren't going to be able to use it.

---------- Post added at 09:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 AM ----------

But the leaks weren't intended for end users, they were internal development builds probably not even intended for use on actual phones but rather a dev kit of some type (something with much more accessible low level hardware access) instead while they were working out the bugs.
[Atrix 4G General] ravilov:
Nobody said what was leaked out was the very latest version that they had. We could've been given some old build. Just saying. ;)
[Atrix 4G General] AnotherBill:
It's true they were incomplete and set to debug but with their build dates it's virtually impossible to know if there was further work done. For all we know we had the latest build and they already knew it was cancelled a month before it was announced.

Either way it's all speculation but just based on what we've seen so far they didn't seem close enough to 'go gold' on it

Sent from my Nexus 7
[Atrix 4G General] lehjr:
I suspect they knew about a week or so after Punit Soni started there, as logic would dictate one of the first things he would have done is meet with the project leaders to get an update on all current projects they were working on and to find out if they were going to meet their target dates.

We don't really know why they weren't further along, but my suspicion is too many ROMS and kernels for too few devices, and maybe even some combination of chip defect and choosing one pin vs another. Even things like this will give you grief, especially if it isn't documented yet.

Anyway, as for this update, 2 weeks down and an unknown about of time to go (could be today, could be another month). Maybe the update will just turn off the Blur account prompt on first use, since I thought that was going to be obsolete or merged into Google accounts.
[Atrix 4G General] markwoo:
I got the atrix when it first come out it had lots of support moto leaked everything out unlocked bootloader received all updates it seems now they threw this legend away...it pisst me off had 5 atrixs all best device to date my book..but I moved on to HTC got bootloader unlocked rite after getting it HTC support wish moto..still did..wasn't a HTC fan at all but was my decision I wanted A new challenge so I upgraded...but I will still play with my atrix hope the new kernel works out for it.. it sounds like moto same old same old say this do that.
[Atrix 4G General] saldirai:
pathetic motorola cant even initiate their stupid maintenance update. Someone tell Punit to put this in their software update page:

Motorola Atrix -> Gingerbread: Q2 2013
[Atrix 4G General] acaseyb:
That made me laugh.
[Atrix 4G General] AnotherBill:
This quite funny. It makes it almost feel like we're running NT 3.51.
[Atrix 4G General] danilocps87:
What? Wtf is Motorola doing? Is it crazy?