yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 4 General] LaviLoki:
I have a theory as to why the Nexus 4 is out of stock, and for such a long time. This may or may not have been mentioned before (probably has) but I just wish to discuss it. Remember, this is purely speculation.

The reason LG has only made around 400,000 handsets and starved production was due to their own flagship, the LG Optimus G. Every single thing about this phone, is IDENTICAL to the Nexus 4, besides the fact the N4 is rocking stock stock android and the aesthetics are slightly different. The N4 has an advantage among the developer community with it being able to be torn apart and tweaked and tinkered with, unlike the OG which LG is still being a little b____ about the bootloader on many of their recent phones.

The 16GB LG Optimus G is $800 here in Australia, and the 16GB Nexus 4 is $400. You do the math.

I don't know if LG's actuaries are idiots or something, but they would have known about the guaranteed success of the next Nexus device, going on the sales figures of all the other devices. LG thought that making a tiny amount of profit on every Nexus device and in turn increasing their companies reputation in the mobile business, was worse than not making ANY profit on their CRAPBOX 3000 (LG Optimus G). I can see where they are coming from, as they don't want their spectacular flagship to be left in the dust with full stock, but zero sales so basically I think they were just chucking a cry or something.

SO DON'T HATE ON GOOGLE FOR THE LACK OF NEXUS'

What you can hate Google for, is choosing LG in the first place. Yeah, they may of felt generous and were trying to support them but at the cost of their own company getting hated? Why didn't they just buy LG like they did with Motorola, and that would be the end of it? When I heard of the new Nexus Device, I celebrating because for some reason I thought they were going to choose HTC for production (who knows why). Nek minnit, they choose some struggling company that either can't or won't keep up with production.

This may of looked like a run-out-of-the-mill rant, but this was some, high-quality, researched ranting skills to pay the bills.

Discuss.
[Nexus 4 General] gie62001:
^ not sure what you meant by high quality research as I don't see any evidence, references and all I can see is pure speculations that have been floating around in this forum since the day problems with stock started.

Do share some of your research details with us to base your ideas that has some concrete evidence of what you are assuming I'd happening and I'll gladly click thanks button under your name ;)
[Nexus 4 General] Joel Chan:
Yeah he did say it was purely speculation. Whatever the reason, the lack of stocks is simply annoying.
[Nexus 4 General] Nuu~:
I fail to see how you guys can always come up with such gossip.

Google has made contracts with LG and they are producing the amount Google demanded.

Whether it was Google ordering just a tiny amount of phones, or LG can't keep up with production, due to manufacturing errors or anything else, we will never know.

Also, LG is not a bad hardware manufacturer. They do have the capability to spit out hundreds of thousand devices a month, and they've proven that they can.

For your info: devices produced in October: 75k

Devices produced in December: 400k

As you can see, they can definitely keep up with the demand, it's probably just Google ordering only tiny amounts of it.

A contract breach, as in simply not delivering the amount of phones Google demanded, would have legal consequences for them, so I guess they will be thinking twice before hampering the production.

Cheers.
[Nexus 4 General] hundreder:
Lg has good hardware? Hmmmm...i don't know. Have you hold Lg L9 or L7, its a pure piece of ****. Quality zero. Maybe they build good displays and parts, but housing of every device is ****y. TVs also.
[Nexus 4 General] ed10000:
Lol, do you think "hundreds of thousands of devices a month" is anywhere near enough for a $600 phone priced at $350? Try several millions a month.

Oh and those production numbers were just speculation (albeit a logical one). No one knows the exact numbers.
[Nexus 4 General] mixedguy:
Why does everyone blame LG? Is there a valid excuse for Samsung taking forever to restock the Nexus 10?
[Nexus 4 General] hundreder:
Good point. Google is just building the hype. If they wanted to really earn money on N4 they would behave differently.
[Nexus 4 General] Nuu~:
Yes, 400k might not be enough. But don't expect the nexus to sell like the iPhone or a Samsung galaxy. There simply is no marketing at all for the nexus. Companies like Apple and Samsung invest millions every year into marketing. Have you ever seen a nexus 4 ad other than on YouTube?

Probably not. The nexus' demographic is mostly tech enthusiasts.
[Nexus 4 General] Chad_Petree:
I don't think LG is intentionally halting the manufacturing process, i mean they would be really stupid to do so, some of of you seem to forget that one of the biggests ways to sell is having quantity over price, if LG sells 5 million Nexus 4 that would make them a ton more money than selling 1 million Optimus G :laugh: , also it doesn't hurt that a lot more people are talking good stuff (regarding quality) about them, that could never hurt a company .

What LG did on purpose (in my opinion) was refusing to provide a 32 gb version of the phone , so if people want more storage (and LTE) they should buy the Optimus G :rolleyes:
[Nexus 4 General] mixedguy:
I had a 2012 47" LG HDTV and the housing was actually pretty nice. They used some type of real brushed metal for the housing instead plastic made to look like brushed metal like other manufacturers. I ended up returning it for a bigger TV though.
[Nexus 4 General] rogerski1:
I disagree. I had a g2x and it was awesome except for the software. When is the last time you had a phone with HDMI out??? G2x had it, also was the first device with dual core.
[Nexus 4 General] Supermaster34:
Actually I've seen nexus 4, 7 and Samsung chromebook adverts in newspapers and on advertising boards on the London underground. Haven't seen any marketing for the nexus 10 though.
[Nexus 4 General] Fataldesain:
Blame Google because they are paying LG and someone really messed up in projecting how many to produce.

I mean last time it was Verizon holding it back so Google had to plan better this time.
[Nexus 4 General] biffsmash:
I'm sorry but this post is complete and utter rubbish. I have seen more adverts on telly for nexus 4 and nexus 7 than I have Samsung devices in the last month, so you cannot claim that there is no marketing at all. Get your facts straight.

Add to that the nexus adverts had me thinking it was an advert for an iPad, and Google are pretty bloody clever with their advertising.
[Nexus 4 General] Nuu~:
I can only speak for my country, but advertising for the nexus 4 is nonexistent here.

Hell, the only nexus ad I've ever seen was for the nexus s a few years ago. On the other hand, there are Samsung and Apple ads multiple times a day.

And I know that this is the case for a lot of countries.
[Nexus 4 General] draugaz:
Which country?
[Nexus 4 General] AnonymousPenguin:
Yeah, but the O2X also doesn't have enough RAM, the proportions are a bit off and the spontaneous shut downs were never fully fixed. I have owned one for the past year and a half and wouldn't recommend it to anyone.
[Nexus 4 General] shotta35:
"telly" suggest the UK or somewhere there which makes sense as someone else says the "Tube" and such which is London's subway :p.

In the USA however, there is 0 ads on TV for the Nexus 4, there are some for the Nexus 7 but NEVER has there been one for the Nexus 4 or 10. Not even in the newspaper other than reviews and such mentioning it. Maybe that's why they don't however as they've already got tons of (positive) press here. In general, you advertise to get your name out there and build brand, once you are out there and everyone knows your name you tend to save those ad dollars.
[Nexus 4 General] cobyman7035:
i don't watch much tv but ive NEVER seen one nexus ad, well i don't see many iphone or samsung ads either, except that cool samsung ad where all the iphone junkies were lined up at the store and the samsung guys showed off the galaxy s3?:confused:
[Nexus 4 General] rogerski1:
You put cm on it and it's a good device. Like I said, the software implementation was garbage. I was simply saying the build quality of the device was not crap.
[Nexus 4 General] User1110:
Is it just me or do android users nowadays whine and complain about every little thing expecting Google and the other android manufacturers to cater to all their needs?

The only reason I'd put LG at fault here is because they didn't offer the Optimus G to all carriers and that contributed in low sales.

Unless you were waiting to buy a Nexus 4 on the very second play store released the Nexus on November 13th and got sent into a backorder or preorder you shouldn't be complaining. Google didn't make a bad decision, the nexus 4 is well built and works perfectly and smoothly based on my experience.
[Nexus 4 General] EdZ:
They're based on the same design and share many individual components, but the internals are actually different. LG cannot simply take an Optimus G board and put it in a Nexus 4 chassis (or vice versa).

The boards are close in design, but far from identical.
[Nexus 4 General] awrnsmn:
I think it's as simple as they underestimated the popularity of the nexus 4. That would make more sense than anything. I DO NOT believe there is any conspiracy behind the shortages.
[Nexus 4 General] sirsmokey:
"Unless you were waiting to buy a Nexus 4 on the very second play store released the Nexus on November 13th and got sent into a backorder or preorder you shouldn't be complaining. Google didn't make a bad decision, the nexus 4 is well built and works perfectly and smoothly based on my experience."

:good: I couldnt agree more.

If you placed a preorder and are still waiting then yes you should be aiming your wraith at both LG and Google other wisew opinions should be based upon experience(s) with the manufacturer and the device in question.

I have a LG 3D P925G and the hardware is solid for its time , software is garbage still no update to ics or even a a mention of jb. This turned me off LG.

The fact that the n4 is backed by google I decided to give LG another shot, other wise I would not have even thought about buying another LG device.

N4 is solid, sexy and priced so low theres no wonder they ran outta stock. Also gotta love the os updates. I am glad I made the purchase.

People complain about the glass and its frailness ; just take care of it like it was your baby, you wouldnt drop your baby would you?

I didnt think so :p
[Nexus 4 General] draugaz:
In Germany neither. Zero ads. I mainly see iphone and wp there. Sometimes SGS3.
[Nexus 4 General] dr.m0x:
Think you're right about the hype thing. Google strategy is not too make profit on Nexus devices. The strategy is to get as many people as possible onto their high quality, low cost devices so that they have more people buying apps, music, books and movies from the play store.

----------------------------

Sent from my AOKP powered Nexus 4
[Nexus 4 General] jmcsk8:
I remember I was listening to NPR a fees days before Christmas and they were talking about the new phones and tablets for this season. (I'm sorry, wasn't sure which segment or show it was on.)

They mentioned that the Nexus 4 was a high demand device and Google was having some difficulty getting them out the door.

But the interesting part was when they said that Google had something along the lines of a gentlemans agreement, nothing official, with other carriers like Sprint and Verizon that would never see the device. Now I cannot vouch for any validity of this but he said that the carriers, Sprint especially since they partnered with Google for seamless Gvoice integration, we're upset and worried that Google would flood the market with The Nexus and people would jump ship to get the device. Now with the Nexus only $299/349 and an ETF anywhere up to $200, adding that together would be about the same for a new phone without renewing your contract.

While all of this makes sense to me, I really doubt Google would want to throttle the phones as much as they have.

So I could see where maybe they didn't order as much from LG at first because of this and also under estimating the demand but once they realized how many people wanted it, the ordered more and ramped up production.

While it's a shame we even have to have a thread about it, I'm just glad to see the people that waited for ever and got jacked around to find that the phone is still worth it in the end and look forward to hopefully having mine delivered this week.
[Nexus 4 General] flash_beezy:
Who cares.

I dont , LOL
[Nexus 4 General] AnonymousPenguin:
The hardware quality was awful. The shutdowns are clearly a hardware fault and the power button is slowly getting less responsive. Compared to the GS2 the O2X is absolute garbage.
[Nexus 4 General] specv:
I saw a nexus 4 commercial at a movie theater and I see the nexus 7 commercial on TV all the time.
[Nexus 4 General] MattSkeet:
Did anyone actually thought that Google was actually auctioning for the next nexus maker ? Whoever can make it cheaper and in better quantities etc will win.?
[Nexus 4 General] sy224048:
And the winner is.....

Huawei!

Hahahaha i hope not
[Nexus 4 General] Venekor:
All speculation, no fact what so ever.

If it is LGs fault then why were there Nexus 7 and 10 problems then?

I reckon it is a Google communication and planning problem.
[Nexus 4 General] Wisefire:
I reckon it was a quantity/demand issue. Wanting to be cautious. They set up production of say 750,000 units for the end of 2012, and sell out quick. Probably the same with the Nexus 7 and 10. The Play Store hasn't been a real success with devices in the past. Why would any manufacturer risk producing large quantities of devices when they are facing an unknown demand, no data to base their production on. Face it, Google is new to such a demand for a Nexus device. Even the Nexus 7 started off slow. (Though they made a smart move with the pre-order situation and should have used it again.)
[Nexus 4 General] thescinema:
I too had a G2x. It constantly froze up. The radio would disconnect constantly. Anything over a 8gb microSD would cause the phone not to boot.

However, I think the N4 shows promise. Nearly a month in and no major issues yet. Battery life with light use is nearly 2 full days.
[Nexus 4 General] lowrider262:
the g2x was the phone I loved to hate. the software sucked, the camera was crap, and the battery was the worst I've ever had on a phone. but it was damn sexy and fast as hell for its time:beer:
[Nexus 4 General] wednesday13:
One word. Marketing.
[Nexus 4 General] BLADESMAN1889:
I don't understand why with people still waiting on delivery and others waiting to order [me :)] why google can't just make an announcement on when they will have some more in stock - whether its for back orders or for sale also.

Its the not knowing which is p!ssing people off - google MUST know when they are getting some.
[Nexus 4 General] underyourbed:
What's so bad about huawei? They are making some serious progress though... :confused:
[Nexus 4 General] imtiax:
I just wish that Google would give us more information rather than making us anxiously waiting.
[Nexus 4 General] EvilStevious:
I love Google as a company, but they seem to have no idea how to do retail or customer support :(
[Nexus 4 General] richteralan:
I do think Google and LG signed a contract of how many devices to be made (or even the rate of production). With these kind of things you just don't sign a "U Make Me Nexus 4" without specifics.

So yes Google underestimated the demand this time.
[Nexus 4 General] BarryH_GEG:
At the end of the day, whether Google sells 400K or 4MM N4's doesn't matter. They aren't a device company nor is selling devices for an infinitesimal margin (why do you think an almost identical Optimus G costs what it does?) going to impact their financials one way or another. They also have a company that produces devices in Motorola that also has all the sales, service, and support infrastructure necessary to avoid the Play melt-down and follow-up issues they experience(d). Google acquired Android and started giving it away to quickly propagate a mobile platform on which they could sell advertising and, later, content. Mostly because they saw the threat Apple represented in mobile. That strategy backfired.

Google owns Android "the code." Samsung owns Android "the market." There are tons of stories out right now about Samsung pursuing Tizen to hedge their bets against Google/Motorola and Google/Motorola collaborating closer to mount a threat to Samsung's Android dominance. 95% of Android users could care less about “pure Google” and most like TW and Sense over stock Android. Hell, as of last month 47% of Android users are stuck permanently on 2.3.X. With their market share, what’s to prevent Samsung from potentially placing themselves between their devices and Google to sell advertising and content? Amazon’s been quite successful at it and their forked devices sell better than the “pure” N7. So with a third party more important to Android than its creator you'd have to think that's raising some concerns back at the mother ship. Especially with Samsung violating some of Google's core design ethos by introducing brazenly “non-compliant” features like multiview that Google threatened to shut down Cornerstone over.

Nexus devices are pretty much Google's message to the world about how things are "supposed to be done." The problem is outside of the enthusiast community no one cares. Below’s a chart on how much Samsung Electronics has spent in advertising and promotion. And no, it's not a misprint, that's "$12B USD." More of it's in promotion which is how they leverage getting their devices in stores over other devices and in the form of volume incentives. That has to scare the crap out of Google who, even with Motorola, can't compete against that much fire power. The GN sold 750K units. If at $349/399 the N4 sells four times that it's pissing in the ocean. The new 1080P Xperia Z with a 5” 1080P display, a 13MP Exmor RS camera, and expandable storage will be $199 through the wireless carriers. Since upwards of 90% of devices are bought subsidized how do you think the N4 will fare in the spring when the next-gen 1080P phones are out for $199? So the N4's nothing but a checker in a game of chess. And the game's heating up having nothing to do with Google's Nexus strategy. It's more akin to "who's the puppet and who's the puppet master?" The exception being the puppet's starting to look a lot like Chuckie to Google. ;)

http://www.asymco.com/2012/11/29/the-cost-of-selling-galaxies/
[Nexus 4 General] joshnichols189:
How stupidly oblivious do you have to be? 95% of people didn't even know what a nexus device was until this phone. The Galaxy Nexus didn't sell close to "several millions a month" and it was priced at $350 long before the Nexus 4 came and replaced it. The fact is most people don't even give a **** about a "Google phone" because to most people anything with android is a Google phone. Of course you will disagree with me because we are on XDA and we all know better, but think of how miniscule XDA is in the grand scheme of things then think of how much smaller the Nexus 4 user base on XDA is in the grand scheme of things.
[Nexus 4 General] LaviLoki:
Google is a beast

What you must understand is, Google wasn't planning to make any solid profit on this device. They wanted to widen the android community and make a nexus device which would appeal to average-everyday consumers, not developers and tinkerers like ourselves.

This new influx of people in possession of top-of-the-line Android device and not a crappy iPhone would hopefully buy stuff on the Play Store, since they wasted so much money on an Apple product and thus more indirect profit for Google!
[Nexus 4 General] atulalvenkar:
I don't think Samsung considers Google/Motorola a threat to their dominance given Motorola is a big player only in US market.

Motorola recently closed shops in lots of markets to concentrate on US market and stop bleeding money.
[Nexus 4 General] albundy2010:
I guess its a Samsung conspiracy as well that the nexus 10 sold out for a while as well
[Nexus 4 General] Cometer:
In my opinion the Nexus 4 was a publicity stunt.

In my opinion the Nexus 4 was a publicity stunt.

Even if Google didn't expect huge demand, 400.000 devices is a small number compared to the production of other similar phones.

The Galaxy S3 sold 10 million in its first month alone.

The tablet Nexus 7 has been selling about 1 million devices each month. And it's a tablet. Not a phone. Phones usualy sell more than tablets.

The Nexus 4 is a limited edition phone.

You can only find the carrier free Nexus 4 at a competetive price in the Google Play Store. If you buy it from any other place it will cost you as much as any other high end phone.

All signs of a limited edition phone.

The problem is Google never mentioned that they were going to release a "limited number" of Nexus 4 devices at a low price.

Each passing week the phone value drops. Even if the Nexus 4 returns to the play store next week it will no longer have the same value that it did when it first came out.

Let's say that in one to two months all stock issues will be solved. That is a long time in the current competitive landscape.

That is enough time to see more and better devices appear in the market and will obviously drop the value of all current phones. More so if there are other big name smartphone releases coming out in the near future.

Again. Even if Google didn't expect huge demand, 400.000 devices IS a small number. It is far from being a huge release.
[Nexus 4 General] ksc6000:
I have a small suspicion that LG is no longer wanting to produce Nexus 4's.

So Google is working with Motorola for a replacement, and the Nexus 4 will be semi-abandoned.
[Nexus 4 General] -A-P-M-:
Would be great if its true. Because they bought Motorola, they could make really great phone without limits.