yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xoom General] Cubanluke88:
Are you intentionally skipping over things I type? As I stated, its simpler manufacturing wise and as Google has indicated, simpler for the consumer. Google has said on numerous accounts that they do not think users should need a file manager for their mobile OS; having separate storage locations makes this difficult. Having one, unified storage location makes things simpler for the consumer.

What point does this prove? Your initial assertion was that by not selling devices with sdcard slots, OEMs and carriers are somehow losing money and this isn't the case at all. Are you trying to say that you have no other options if you want iOS and thus you are stuck with a device that has no sdcard? That's a fair point but the simple fact is sdcard slots are clearly not that important if millions upon millions are getting by without it. And again, I point you to current Nexus sales.

Its called a hyperbole, look it up. The fact is, the internet is getting faster, better and more widespread. Cloud services are growing. Google has jumped on this bandwagon and they are going to see it through. If their customers can simply side load content, what incentive do they have to buy/stream from their cloud?

Yeah I've seen this theory before. I'm not sure how I feel about it, as Google has of course never expressly stated this is the reasoning. It could be true, but I think theres more to it. As I stated earlier, Google has explicitly stated that they wanted to unify the partitions. One big block of storage not only simplifies things, but means the devices can use ext, a format that is faster and safer.

You are taking this discussion far more seriously than you need to. You live in the present, thats great. So do I. I stream roughly ~10-15GB of music via Google Music a month, use Hulu and Netflix on my Xoom while at school/on the go quite regularly and use Google Drive and Dropbox almost exclusively for work/school documents. Is the internet great everywhere? No, not yet. But the fact is that using digital content via the cloud is here and is working and growing. Sorry if that's not a reality for you.

This may be different for some but I have had a 32GB sdcard for my Xoom since I bought it. I can probably count on my finger the number of times I have taken the card out, and this was never to swap out with another card, it was usually because I was fussing around with other cards. On my previous phones, I would forget that I even have an sdcard sometimes. This is, again, personal experience, but the solution here would simply to have larger internal storages, and that is something I would like to see in the future. A 128 GB Nexus 10" would be fantastic.

---------- Post added at 06:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:57 PM ----------

If Android 5.0 (or whatever the next big version is) no longer supported external sdcards, would you continue to buy Android products?
[Xoom General] hipocrazy:
Xoom still does everything I need from a tablet. Screen is my only complaint but that's when it's side to side with a superior screen. You guys can go back to yapping about SD vs. no SD cards now. :)
[Xoom General] Draxin:
Ughh.... I am not gonna bother quoting.

My ONLY assertion is that OEM's have been losing money BECAUSE of ext. sd slots in devices. That having a ext. sd slot puts the device in direct competition with devices they are selling for more money merely cause it has more internal memory.

My point of Apple was based off a point you tried to make, off of misunderstanding what I was saying. Basically that since Apple is the sole device manufacturer of devices that run iOS, you get what they give you. No competing devices , making it a niche, making it a terrible example.

Again with the Nexus selling, I never said it wasn't gonna sell did I? I said ext. sd cards don't have to go away but they will. That manufacterer's are competing against themselves by having a ext. sd slot in there.

If Google wants to jump on the cloud bandwagon that is their choice to do so. Not having the time to hold the hands of ppl being left behind as they push forward might cost them. Might not.

Would I still buy Android products if it doesn't support a ext sd card? Of course, if the device would suit my needs. I better question though, might be, would I still buy Android even though another OS supports my needs just as well AND supports ext. sd cards?
[Xoom General] Mjamocha:
WOW, debbie downer. LOL
[Xoom General] Cubanluke88:
What does this have to due with being a debbie downer? Hell, in my eyes, moving away from sdcards is a positive, not a negative. Having to rely on expandable storage is silly.
[Xoom General] Draxin:
Not looking to get into a discussion as I am genuinely curious. Why do you see moving away from sd cards as being a positive?

Your xoom had 32 gb of storage, the sd card you installed added another 32. If you get a 64 gb card you will up it to 96 GB... all for much less then the price would be purchasing more internal storage for the same device. If you purchased another device with ext. sd slot with say... 16 gb of storage, and you add your sd card you bump it to 48gb... without spending a dime. The same device with 32 gb instead of 16 would prob run you another hundred or so. I have a 32 gb card in my xoom as well, I can count on one hand, how many times I have had the card out. I can also count on one hand, how many times I haven't used the storage the card adds. the ext. sd card turned my tablet from a 32 gb to a 64 for the price of the card. If I add the card to the new device, it bumps the storage of THAT device. No internet reliance, no premium price on storage that, basically I have already paid for, just not from the manufacturer of the device. I would gladly pay $100 dollars more to upgrade a device to include a ext. sd card, and that is way more than it would cost them to install it, rather than have that hundred pay for another 16 gb of storage. Eliminating ext. sd card support is Googles choice but, that just crosses out one more thing that makes them different from Apple. If Ubunto or another OS ends up offering comparable support, apps, and interface, with the added feature of ext. sd support. Google could lose customers for that. And it would be their own fault for not listening to the customer, just doing what they want, to try and get the result they desire.
[Xoom General] tumpy:
I would still do it doesn't matter to me if it have or dont have, I know they will be some sort of pc connection..
[Xoom General] 3devious:
I had to laugh when I read yours because I can do exactly that and if some backbone goes down, I'm still taking care of business until the power goes out. As I am posting this, some guy I don't even know in the middle of nowhere wonders what you think you proved.

---------- Post added at 01:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:49 PM ----------

Not as silly as trusting someone/something that you have no real control over to hold all of your data for you with no significant alternative. The truly funny thing is that these Nexus devices are the ones with dependencies, not the XOOM.
[Xoom General] iamanoopmk:
I am from backward and uncivilized world where they sell tablet for $800 and nexus lines are never released. Amazing cloud services are not available yet every high end device is available in the market. So, I need my data card. I have 32gb on my s2 and 32gb on my Xoom and both sdcards are almost full...
[Xoom General] Draxin:
If you have internet access then, you have access to cloud storage. The reliability, convenient availability, and speed is where it becomes an issue.
[Xoom General] 3devious:
If you aren't above rooting, you can use Stickmount and plug USB storage in. SD cards are pretty much your option if you don't get online and want to stay stock. The time is coming that XOOM owners might need to root to get updates. Verizon might give LTE users one last update but they probably have bigger fish to fry now.
[Xoom General] tumpy:
You are not as smart as you think you are, Just as dumb as you think..JAHRASTAFARI..
[Xoom General] Whafrodamus:
Wow... that got heated
[Xoom General] Draxin:
lol, you think that is heated, go to a star wars convention and scream out "Greedo shot first!"
[Xoom General] Mjamocha:
I too enjoy the ex-sd.

---------- Post added at 06:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:32 PM ----------

Lol,
[Xoom General] iamanoopmk:
I can't wait for 5 hours to download my 30 min HD videos shot from my phone. Just because I don't want to use cloud doesn't mean I have no right to access cutting edge technology.

All the Google cloud services and amazon cloud services are not available here..

Besides a monopoly market is oppressive and consumer must have maximum choice and not the manufacturer
[Xoom General] Cubanluke88:
Needing external sdcards means one of two things, or both: you don't have enough internal storage and/or your internet service is not reliable enough to support cloud services. I understand the appeal of sdcards; upgrading devices, simply transfer card and boom, you've saved money by reusing old memory in a new device to expend its storage. However, the ideal situation is that you don't need this reliance; that the internal storage will suffice and and that your internet is reliable. This is what Google intends. Not to mention the mark up they can make ($Y extra for X GB more).

As for one less thing that makes them like apple, I don't know if you've noticed but Apple is a mildly successful company, not to mention the fact that they paved the way for tablets being an acceptable medium for mobile devices.

And as for new, competing OSs for the mobile arena, I don't think Google has much to worry about. Ubuntu would be interesting but it's target audience would be small. Windows 8 RT is going to be in the same position android was a few years ago: no developers to build apps. Time will tell how that goes.

---------- Post added at 08:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 PM ----------

About as silly as trusting strangers from the internet to write code and deliver a custom OS to people who probably have very little idea what's going on under the hood?

Oh look I can make silly, paranoid conspiracy theories too.
[Xoom General] Semseddin:
Couldn't agree the op more. If people want to pay extra money on company dependent services like cloud, they are free to pay them but if those dependent people try to lecture me about this future, it's simply silly.

Xoom is a real machine which is made to last and be future proof. It is not like one of those future garbage with crippled storage and data speeds. It is not made of poor battery, plastic bullsheat.
[Xoom General] Draxin:
Once again, I don't think Apple is a good example. Apple has been around since the 80's, had itself a very loyal customer base before it even pushed out the first ipod. They sell phones, computers, printers, mp3 players, laptops, tablets, etc. etc. And they get paid for each and every device sold(outside of the used market, and the knockoffs). The only competition they have when they roll out a new device fro iOS is the previous devices they have made, and been paid for. Any apps sold in itunes store, they get paid for, They are their own competition in the iOS market.

Google's nexus line has to compete against Samsung, Asus, Acer etc. etc.. which means they don't have control of the android device market outside of the OS, which most manufacturers make their own little tweaks too, to accomodate themselves anyway. If Google releases a OS that doesn't support a ext. sd card ( like honeycomb), a manufacturer can do their own little hack to the OS before they release it (like Asus did with the transformer) to make it support ext. sd. Google also doesn't have control of the hardware that can go into any android tablet. Samsung puts out a new better processor?! Nexus has to compete... Lumpy tablet?! Nexus has to compete...Ext. sd card?! Nexus has to compete.. Google get's the play store sales, but not the tablet sales, just a royalty for using their OS. Apple only competes with themselves, they get the biggest chunk of any part of the iOS pie.

Very true, time will tell. One thing that has me curious about Ubunto is that unlike Windows, and iOS, Ubunto is Linux based, like Android. So, not knowing the strains of writing code, wonder how much more difficult it would be to port Android apps over. I am really curious about it. Giving developers and customers incentives, could a Ubunto marketplace grow twice as fast as Android, since the work for most of the apps is already half done??

(Once again, don't know jack about writing code)
[Xoom General] Mjamocha:
Me-

My internet service is quite reliable enough to support cloud storage. So that's not it. "Needing an external sdcard because you don't have enough internal storage" same concept can be applied to needing cloud storage. I have plenty of internal space. So that's not it either. External SD Is a plus and an option, much like choosing Cloud.

Cloud Storage, External SD .... its a matter of preference. (Currently)

Some love it, some don't, some could care less.

internet Cloud Storage has been around since somwhere around the 90's?

SD cards in whatever form have been around what like 70's? They are both fairly

good means of storage depending upon your preference/reasoning.

Will cloud storage become standard ... at this point all we can do make a hypothesis

We won't know, until we know. None of us actually know for sure what Google's Intentions really are at this point. Hellz yeah the money they can make for X GB lol.
[Xoom General] Cubanluke88:
To address a few things, I think its rather foolish to say that Apple is only competing against themselves. Watch the event where they showcased the iPad mini. It was full of comparisons to the Nexus 7. Sorry but just because Apple products are on a separate OS, does not mean they are not competition; this is only true for Android die hards who won't touch iOS devices, which, despite what you may think based on coming to a site like XDA, is a small portion of the general public. Most people just want a good product. Anyway, this is irrelevant. The point I was making is that Apple is plenty successful without sdcards. The logical conclusion is thus that plenty of consumers have decided that its not as important as one might think and thus Google could very well do just fine with sales of devices that do not include sdcard slots.

And just to clarify, OEMs are free to use Android at their discretion. No royalties are paid to Google.

---------- Post added at 05:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:17 PM ----------

Here's the thing. I make it a point to ask friends/family members who have phones with sdcard slots about this. Most state that they never take it out and some are even shocked to learn that they have this slot (often because the slot is covered by the battery, and the average user usually has no reason to remove the battery).

This is obviously an anecdotal observation with no real ~numbers~ behind it but I stand by the point that its less important than us nerds seem to think it is.

I understand that sdcard slot is considered another "option" and perhaps might be interpreted as far as additional "freedom." But, going back to the original point that brought this sub-discussion about, I do not think a lack of sdcards will be as much of a detriment to Google's bottom line as some seem to think. Hell, it might just encourage people to buy the devices with more GB and thus help to increase profits.
[Xoom General] prostang:
I would like it if my Xoom wouldn't reboot when I attempt to turn up the volume!
[Xoom General] LexLuger82:
Haha
[Xoom General] Draxin:
If you take a look at what of mine you quoted, you will see, that whenever I mention Apple not having competition, it is when I mention iOS, reason being they are the ONLY one who makes devices for it. You choose, iOS, you have Apple. You choose Android, you have well over a dozen different manufacturers offering all sorts of different devices, with different options.That is what we are talking about here! Not whihc company puts out a better product. If you are on iOS you get what Apple is offering you, different types of ipods, iphone 4 or 5, ipad2 or 3, and ipad mini, all by Apple! If you get Android, you have a variety of choices in te 10", 7", and phone markets from different manufacturers

So if you want to compare Google to Apple strictly on people deciding which OS to use, Google wins hands down, there are plenty more Android devices out there in use, then there are iOS BUT not every one of those Android users are using Nexus devices, not even close unlike all users of iOS.

That is why I don't compare them on the same level and consider Apple a niche market, once you choose iOS everything you buy or do is throwing money in Apples pocket. Once you choose to get an iOS device, they no longer are competing for your money, they will get it no matter what you buy. If you choose to go Android, well, your decisions are just beginning, and your money can end up in a number of different companies pocket while purchasing a device, not just Google's. To me, that is apples and oranges when deciding which way you want your device to go because your competition in the Android market, may not have the same goals as you do. Their goal is to sell their device. If offering a ext. sd slot will help them do it, they will add it.

Of course they are gonna compare the ipad mini to the nexus 7. What else are they gonna do? Compare it to the rest of their products that they are still selling, and try to dump on them??
[Xoom General] Cubanluke88:
And if you read what I posted, you'd have realized that I addressed the notion of people choosing a certain OS and sticking to it; I don't believe the general populace does this.

And even if we are talking strictly Android, I've addressed this as well. Nexus sales have been amazing, so much so that they have exceeded Google's anticipation for sales with both the Nexus 7 launch and the fall launch of the 4 and 10. Clearly sd card slots aren't that important with the sales figures these non-sd card devices are seeing.

At any rate, this discussion is stupid if were not going to settle on a common ground for comparison. You believe people choose their devices based on a particular OS; I do not think this is true for the general consumer. I think people simply choose the product that, at the time of purchase, fits their needs best. The simple point I am trying to make is that when people do choose their Apple product, they are obviously not bothered enough by the lack of an sd card to keep them away from purchases. The same is true for Nexus devices.

And about the iPad/Nexus 7 comparison, that right there shows that Apple agrees with me in how users choose products; based on the product itself, not so much the OS. If they were not worried about this, they would simply address Android as a whole, not a particular Android device.
[Xoom General] Draxin:
I agree this discussion is stupid since we can't come to a common ground. You bring up valid points. Maybe it is my area but, I don't know too many ppl that keep hopping back and forth from iOS to Android depending on whatever device has come out at the time, they tend to pay attention to the new device coming out for the particular OS they are familiar with unless they are unhappy with the OS. I believe if a first time buyer chooses a particular OS's phone/tablet, they will tend to stick to it, unless there is something they don't like, THEN they will switch. Most first time buyers don't even understand what the specs of a phone is, "does it have GPS?does it play youtube? can I watch pron? is about the extent of what they want to know.

The ipad mini filled a gap in Apple's product lineup that Android had already filled, and their customer base complained about. From what I understand Apple will be offering iphones soon in a variety sizes, to fill more gap in their lineup giving their customers more options that Android already has due to multiple manufacturers. Both OS's and most devices will suit most of the general populaces needs, and general populace will be less inclined to upgrade their current gear to latest and greatest unless their device dies. Most of the people making those nexus tablets fly off the shelves are not first time buyers, or they are being purchased for first timers by someone with a prior knowledge with the OS. And most everybody I know with a nexus 7 has a otg cable for stick and external harddrives, most of them would prefer a ext. sd card but, it isn't available. They also own other Android tablets and phones but, wanted a 7 inch tablet with newer hardware, the price is no ext. sd. I once again never said that no ext. sd would stop sales on a device. From the getgo I said that ext. sd cards didn't need to die but probably will.

Which sucks, if you have a two games The dark knight rises, and NFS most wanted, you will be taking up to 4 gigs at any given time. Dark knight takes over a gig of space, NFS:MW takes 700mb, and requires two GB of free space to run, on a 16 GB tablet, that really limits you. But that is life.

So if OS's aren't a factor in most people's decision making for a new device, how did Android overcome iOS? Both OS's newer devices can play the same games and run the same apps that are available to them. Or is it what the OS allows the user to do with their device once they know what they want from it? If it is because of the apps available in their perspective stores, once again, choice based off OS.

Agree to disagree
[Xoom General] Cubanluke88:
Agree to disagree on the other stuff, as we can't find common premise to agree on.

But I will address this.

Every couple months we see stats with "Android is up to xx% of the mobile market! Hurrah!"

Unfortunately these stats are crap. They are extremely misleading. Android being on so many devices has nothing to do with users choosing Android or users thinking it is a better OS. Its about money.

Android being open source means that OEMs can push out cheaply built, cheaply designed phones to cheap carriers like metro PCS without having to worry too much about the software. They build the phone, build the OS once for said device, ship it out and move on. iOS does not provide this option as they only produce premium devices in the form of the iPhones and iPads. Android has a wide spectrum of quality of devices.

Now I'm not saying premium Android devices don't make up a large market share (premium being Nexus, HTC One X, galaxy S series, Motorola razrs) but the overall stats we see every now and then proclaiming that Android is activated on X devices and has taken the majority market share are extremely misleading. In my opinion, Android being on cheaply built devices that never see updates only hurts the ecosystem and helps spread the idea that Android devices are cheap and meant for people on a budget.
[Xoom General] logitechor:
For me the Xoom works. Unlocked. Rooted. 4.2.1 and overclocked. The hardware features works for me and I take advantage of them. The developers support it even thogh Motorola and Google have stopped. This is why I still use the Xoom