yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Microsoft Surface] ajamils:
If you haven't already, checkout Acer W700. It comes with i3 and i5 versions. I have the i5 version and I easily get 7 hours of battery life. It comes with lot of goodies like BT keyboard, dock and folio case.
[Microsoft Surface] galtom:
Cooling? Fans? Hot air?
[Microsoft Surface] Ravynmagi:
All included at no additional cost.
[Microsoft Surface] HcMAX:
I bought the Sony VAIO duo 11...I have to say its the best thing I bought!!!! The screen is amazing the response of the touch awesome and the scrolling the same thing....its a complete hybrid... You even have the pen...it has an SD slot, HDMI, Ethernet port....no need for acesssories...nothing...

The only thing that lacks its the 3G...but I tether from my s3...

You can use bluestacks to port your android apps and games to your tablet...
[Microsoft Surface] galtom:
Again... all other tablets & hybrids - as awesome as they are they blow hot air - it is not acceptable in device you hold in your hands :(

Perhaps next generation will be better - but somehow I doubt - power of CPU (at this level/shelf of productivity and computing power) + more powerful graphic card means such combination will always be hotter (way hotter) than SOC systems
[Microsoft Surface] madamimadam:
I have been using the Series 7 Slate for about a year now(not a /build model). There have been only a handful of times that the fan has been an issue, and only a minor one when it has. There have been far more times that not having a x86 based program would have been a much larger issue. Fan+x86 > No Fan+ARM.
[Microsoft Surface] galtom:
Luckily now we can have both, just less powerful - x86 (although x64 would be welcome) and no fan.

BTW: All Atom based hybrids come with Windows 8 - do you know how much I would have to pay to upgrade to Pro?

I will want to use Remote Desktop Connection... or is the Chrome (free) solution sufficient? I don't have another PC at the moment to test it...
[Microsoft Surface] GoodDayToDie:
Well, if you can still pick up the super-cheap Pro license keys from MS, that would work for upgrading.

Officially, the upgrade to Pro costs $70 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/html/pbpage.Windows_8_Pro_Pack), but if you jump on the deal to get the downloadable copy of Win8 Pro and just use its license key, you can get that for just $40: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store...dows_8_Pro?WT.mc_id=MSCOM_HP_nav_BuyWSoftware
[Microsoft Surface] Riche101UK:
+1 on the Yoga its a really nice machine

---------- Post added at 01:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:24 AM ----------

It's amazing until you use apps like Photoshop. The drivers MS and Sony use are not compatible with Photoshop etc so using the pen is horrible.
[Microsoft Surface] galtom:
Can I buy it without having (yet) a copy of Windows I want to upgrade?
[Microsoft Surface] goofball2k:
Why do you need Pro to use RDC? are you thinking you would want to remote desktop into the tablet (seems odd to me but I have to ask)? You can remote desktop into other machines using standard Windows 8.
[Microsoft Surface] Ravynmagi:
Not sure about him. But I needed it to join the tablet to a domain, so I could use it at work.
[Microsoft Surface] galtom:
I need to have access to Remote Computer - my PC at home. So in my thinking RDC built in W8 would make it easier for me to connect tablet (hybrid) to home PC when needed...

I do it on iPad now with Splashtop but iPad itself is not very pleasant to use...
[Microsoft Surface] GoodDayToDie:
Even Windows RT has a RDP client (two of them, actually - the built-in mstsc.exe on the desktop, and a rather nice "Metro" one available free on the store). You only need Pro to run the server (the thing you connect to, rather than from).
[Microsoft Surface] galtom:
Cool, thanks! That I did not know. Since my home PC runs Pro it will be enough.

What is the name of app in the store?

Or where will I find built in feature in non Pro W8 versions?
[Microsoft Surface] GoodDayToDie:
Same way you've been able to find any Windows program since Vista: hit Start, type the first part of the program name. The desktop app is in the list as "Remote Desktop Connection" (as it was in previous versions) although you can also launch it by the file name, mstsc.exe (MicroSoft Terminal Services Client). The Windows Store app is just called "Remote Desktop" and is easy to find.
[Microsoft Surface] goofball2k:
That makes sense but that's not the same thing as needing it for RDP

As mentioned, it comes with the W8 OS already. Remote desktop connectivity out doesn't require an upgrade but remote desktop incoming does.
[Microsoft Surface] galtom:
What about problem of remote access from different network? Do I need to know my external IP? Or is my live account enough to locate my PC? Splashtop uses Google account to locate computers, and this way problem of changeable IP is not really an issue.

How is it here.?
[Microsoft Surface] GoodDayToDie:
You need the external IP, or at least a domain name that points to that IP. If you have a static external IP, that's easy. If you have a dynamic one, the easiest option is a dynamic DNS so you can just type a domain name and it will get routed to whatever IP your PC currently has. Dynamic DNS services are usually free or very cheap. You'll also need to forward the terminal services port (by default, I believe it's 3389) from your router to your PC.
[Microsoft Surface] galtom:
Thanks.

I'll ask about for your help with this when I'll get that far.
[Microsoft Surface] Danny2:
I have the ACER W700, and yes, active cooling (a fan), but, with any kind of normal background noise you have to hold the device close to your ear, or be in a very quiet room to even hear the fan operating, warm air, yep, but warm air being exhausted out the top of the device beats heat trapped in the device. (The only means of rejecting heat in a non fan cooled tablet is radiating, usually out the back, so the back of the device gets hot, not so with a fan cooled tablet. I have an Acer W700 (fan cooled) an Acer A500 (passive cooled), and a Vizio VTAB1008, (also passive cooled) and the W700 runs cooler say resting on your legs (imagine yourself propped up in bed, tab resting on your legs) than either of the other 2 passively cooled tabs. (the Vizio tab actually gets Very warm, to the point you need to move because it is too hot)

Also, just an opinion, but I believe the added horsepower of the i5 processor over any of the atom devices is definately a plus. Have you ever heard anyone say "No thanks, I would prefer the slower, sooner to be obsolete processor option."

Again, just an opinion, but I automatically rejected any device that only offered an atom processor.

Update: Using the tablet in bed, house very quiet, can definately hear the fan operating, but is still very quiet.
[Microsoft Surface] goofball2k:
I've heard "wow, that's really pricey for a tablet" when people talk about the i5 W8 tablets ;) You can spin it any way you like to make you feel better about your purchase.

There's a reason why the CloverTrail tablets exist. They are thinner, lighter, and cheaper. Yes, they also are slower, have lower resolution screens, but not everyone buys a tablet and requires it to be as fast as a desktop. Sure as heck, the Android and iPad devices that sell millions aren't as fast as desktops and they clearly run inferior mobile processors.

I didn't feel for my purposes, that spending that amount of money made sense, hence why I have a clovertrail tablet.
[Microsoft Surface] galtom:
Actually yes, I did. :P

I honestly do not need such processing power for tasks I will perform on this device. I value battery life and keyboard that w700 does not have.
[Microsoft Surface] Danny2:
Minor point maybe, but the W700 comes with a very nice bluetooth keyboard/case/stand. (at least mine did, I have seen a few others also mentioning the lack of a keyboard.) Also, while not as good of battery life as the atom based tablets, I still get 7-8 hrs, so, not really too bad.

---------- Post added at 02:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:46 AM ----------

I actually have no need to "spin" it any particular way. Yep, the W700 is pricey, $950.00 for 128GB i5, could have bought a comparable laptop for less than 1/2 that, but, then I would just have 2 laptops, & the newest would be slower... , but, what I wanted was something in a tablet form factor, running windows, & not underpowered. Key phrase being "what I wanted" so, if you wanted something different, good for you, happy you got what you wanted. Also, any kind of comparison to an android or ios tablet processor is meaningless, as neither of those OS's are the resource hog that is Windows.
[Microsoft Surface] Bec07:
Well, I've gone for the VivoTab TF810C. Would have gone for vivo smart but it has no dock.

I don't really want to offend but if you make a tablet without a dock (+battery) it's simply useless and dumb. Useless because instead of having something that charges your tablet, you'll have bulk plastic that drains it and bulk plastic to hold it up, which in case of the surface is even more dumb as it shaves mAh off the battery. If you have just a battery-less dock like Samsung did, you're carrying a piece of lead around to balance your tablet. How ridiculous is that?

Then again if you want to call a 700g "tablet" a tablet, be my guest. I'll just call it a flat dumb UMPC. The Vivo tab is already too heavy at 675g and it puts quite a strain on my wrist, but I've been waiting for a windows tablet for so long, that this 1st generation weight fluke is to be accepted (for vivo tab alone that is).

The MS surface tablets are already outdated. They look like old used cars compared to the designs that will leak in the next few months. If I was so concerned about being outdated, *GMA 4000 ahem you are already outdated* I would at least gone for the asus vivo book or taichi... that, at that weight would have completely defied the purpose of a tablet, but would at least not look laughable as notebooks by next year.

Also what do you think Atom is underpowered for? First of all this is way above previous generation Atom devices, second you are really limited by the screen size. Last but not least if you have a core iX tablet power is your main concern, battery power that is :))

So, if you think you have "great" performance with a GMA4000 be it paired with either i5 or i7 I laugh at you and the money you've thrown away instead of getting a decent laptop. A 1.8pound tablet is not comfortable to hold [period]. If you're lucky enough to have a keyboard dock, you'll find yourself using it as a laptop in the next 2 months.

BTW, this is how I see Core iX tablet users:
[Microsoft Surface] goofball2k:
Valid points. I don't have any need for a dock so that wasn't a requirement for me. I have 3 tablets without docks, perfectly fine that way.

I agree about 700g not really being a tablet and I do find it somewhat uncomfortable to hold for long periods.
[Microsoft Surface] galtom:
I am very lucky in this... As I still use iPad 1st gen (730g!!!) jump from that to TF810c will be a massive improvement for me. And I dont think I will make any complains about how fast Atom is, how heavy Asus is :)
[Microsoft Surface] goofball2k:
The only thing you might find is if you go to portrait, that it may feel unbalanced (top heavy) if you hold it from the bottom. If you hold it from the side, you might hit the capacitive windows button and it's also a bit different feeling than the ipad as well.
[Microsoft Surface] galtom:
I realize this, but iPad is (for me) very annoying with this anyway. I use 99% time in horizontal position. I almost never go to portrait mode (i do not read much on it).
[Microsoft Surface] winappleworld:
I heard that there was no great response and reviews of Windows Surface tablet.

I really want to try it hands on to determine it.

Hopefully will buy it some day and review it here to help you :)
[Microsoft Surface] goofball2k:
Then it will be a big improvement. :)

Note that app load times aren't the fastest but they are pretty quick.

Expandable storage options are great. Full USB port, micro SDHC slot, and easy networking are great.

If you don't like the windows Metro style UI or miss the start button, install classic Shell, works great for me.
[Microsoft Surface] oupavoc:
What do you guys think about the Asus Transformer Book and the Lenovo ThinkPad Helix? I'm leaning on getting the Asus. What to you guys think?
[Microsoft Surface] Bec07:
Lenovo's dock looks plasticky and suspicious. It resembles a raised acer design (can't remember the exact model) shown at CES but it didn't look solid.

Also what is wring with that design? Sharp corners and round corners? :eek:
[Microsoft Surface] galtom:
I know it will. And I do like W8. I got it on my old desktop and I honestly do not know what ppl. are complaining about - use W8 for a week as it was designed and you will not need start button. But first "unlearn what you have learned"!

So.. if I want to shut down my system instead of clicking start...and the rest - I simply touch the button on my desktop.

Or if you prefer to have something to click - create new short-cut, choose nice power icon and this in command line "C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /s /t 0" :)

---------- Post added at 07:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 AM ----------

I actually like Helix and could consider it ... BUT...

No one knows when and if it will be sold in Poland and its price will be truly crazy :(

Considering that I am waiting for something new to replace my old iPad with since 2 or 3 years now (almost changed for Tegra2 device but decided they were not much better from what I have - than we had Tegra 3 but with W8 x86 on the horizon I decided to wait...) I have to get something soon :)
[Microsoft Surface] goofball2k:
Transformer book is interesting but 13.3" is a lot larger than I would like as a tablet.
[Microsoft Surface] plznote:
Just played with a Lenovo Yoga and wow I loved it, its just so expensive.
[Microsoft Surface] RavenZero:
I'm waiting it out...

Personally, I'm waiting for ULV Haswell, Hondo or Temash to make it into more diverse designs later this year. Everyone who played with the Vizio Hondo based tablet at CES said that the performance absolutely crushed anything based on Clover Trail that is available right now. Temash is going to be even better. If an Intel partner can get Haswell into a 10.1 to 10.6" (Surface RT sized) tablet at about 1.5 pounds, zero fan noise and an active digitizer, I would shell out a hard earned grand for it. Even better if an AMD partner can do the same with Temash with the same external specs for less. I would love full 64-bit Windows 8 on a much better than Clover Trail platform, but I really don't need a full blown Haswell in my tablet. Hondo performance levels are just fine in a tablet as far as I'm concerned and they should be able to do all of that with Temash in the $600 to $700 range without issues.

If I were to purchase a Windows tablet now, I would just get the RT, since it is the most innovative with the nicest build quality of all for the price, and live with the limitations until the really nice 2nd gen offerings arrive later this year. One of our sales account managers at my work has one and, after trying it out (with a capacitive stylus that did an incredible job of handwriting recognition), it would work much better for me than my current Tegra 2 tablet running Android. At a quiet and light 1.5 pounds, it would also provide a much more portable, silent platform for casual work than my current laptop can provide. I can always use my desktop at home for any heavy lifting that I need to do--plus I can connect to it remotely, if necessary, via the tablet.
[Microsoft Surface] Bec07:
You can wait all you want for AMD but it's going to be another 2 years before they put anything decent out. Hondo is rated 4.5W tdp compared to clover trail, just 1.7W! (Just so I make it clear 1.7 W TDP =~8hours of usage, 4.5W =~4 hours ( because the screen does drain the most that is).

Temash will mostly come out early 2014 and will still not go below 2W, I'd be surprised if they manage to get anything in the 2W range.

As for Haswell, we're talking 10W.

None of the things you are waiting for will offer competitive standby and battery life to the actual Clover trail, in just 1.5 pounds.

Clover trail is completely on par with the latest generation of iPad and android tablets. If it's Tegra we're talking then it's above.

Whatever is coming out, its only coming this time next year, all manufacturers have a 1 year production cycle and most tablets, are just becoming widely available now. Clover trail too was supposed to come out autumn 2012.

Getting the RT model is some seriously bad advice, not only is it already underpowered compared to other ARM chips, but by the time decent software actually comes out the Tegra 3 will crawl. People are already destroying the RT tablets in reviews on all possible Amazon sites. Rely on them to tell you why it's bad.

Happy waiting for Haswell, Hondo or Temash but by the time they come out, Haswell 2.0, Hondo 2.0 or Temash 2.0 will be announced with much better specs and just 6 (theoretical) months away, so you might as well wait forever for technology to stop evolving.

As an actual user I do have to let you know that CPU/GPU is not the real issue these tablets have. It's the bottleneck caused by the eMMC. The only thing that will make a notable difference in today's chips compared with the ones today* is the integration of either a SATA or USB3.0 controller.

Current eMMC performance is in the 5200-7100 RPM HDD range and all I can say is that getting an SSD for my laptop was like going from a Pentium 4 to a Core i7. The boost in general OS performance is tremendous, boot times, loading times, shutdown times, file operations... 10 years of CPU research barely brought the performance boost that the 2nd generation of solid state devices brought.

*Assumption made on the evolution of Core i3/5/7 and graphics accelerators GeForce 260m vs 560m. Using this hardware for gaming will yield a barely noticeable performance boost. For general usage the end user will notice 0 differences without benchmarking tools.
[Microsoft Surface] mikegadd:
Copy of my post in another tread

Again in context I have laptop Dell Duo Flip screen. Nexus 7, Playbook 64gb ( I like gadgets). I was considering a Surface RT or Surface Pro.

But I ended up with a RM Slate 100 (EXOPC) 2gb Memory, 32gb mini pe ssd card (also spare slot for second ssd card or gps unit, 2 usb ports full size, HDMI out, SD Card slot (I added 32gb 45mb sec) 11.6 inch screen I upgraded to Windows 8 Pro. in all it cost me £180 pounds.

it was a gamble but the result is a very capable Surface Pro look alike. Any wireless keyboard will work when needed. Linked to my Nexus with a mouse and keyboard simulator it works great through plasma TV via HDMI. Skydrive adds another 48gb storage, dropbox for moving files around.

Added bonus Android for X86 works as well from SD Card .

Boot time 20 sec with Office 2010 loaded. Program start times ready to go Word 3 sec, Excel 1.8 sec, Outlook 4.5 sec, Paintshop Pro X5 31 sec.

Any one else put together a surface pro look alike.

How does a Surface compare.
[Microsoft Surface] vinscuzzy:
I bought the Lenovo Yoga 13 a couple of weeks ago and I like it much more than expected. I bought it within 30 days of the surface pro release so I could take it back if I really like the Surface Pro, but I really cant imagine returning the yoga. Its really nice, and for lap use, I doubt the Surface will be as convenient.
[Microsoft Surface] UBNAS81:
to go pro or something else?

So, MS agreed to send me a replacement for my Surface RT (my battery lost 25% capacity in only 25 charge cycles) - now the big debate for me is to open it, keep it, or exchange for Surface Pro because I already have Type Cover, or for something else.

My 3 year old XP-SP3 laptop is crapping out on me, and the device I think I really want to replace it with is the Lenovo Thinkpad Helix with i7, 8gb RAM, and detachable tablet screen and get rid of my Surface RT- Im going to have to spend upwards of $1500 on new computer anyways - will Surface Pro, or a new Convertible laptop with i5, or i7 with Intell HD4000 run graphics intense programs such as Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop, AutoCAD, etc. I am concerned that the Intel 4000 integrated graphics wouldn't be sufficient for Rhinoceros, Revit, AutoCAD, Sketchup, etc - note, I do not do photo-real renderings, or anything like that - mostly 3d buildings, and schematic stuff - the renderings I would do on my work computer (HP Z600). My Thinkpad W500 at home runs the programs with 4gigs of RAM, and Core2duo, with integrated ATI graphics card - how would this compare to the new convertibles / Surface Pro?

My current laptop has only left my house 3-5 times in the 3 years I have owned the thing. My other thought is that I could just get a new kick-ass desktop for less money, and keep my surface RT to remote access when needed. Anyone have any insight on the Intell 4000 graphics?

Thanks,
[Microsoft Surface] Macmee:
Why on Earth anyone would want a Surface pro as a tablet I have no idea. I mean, when people buy tablets they want a portable device, not a device that you can only use for 3-4 hours without having to recharge again. Laptops are more portable than that....
[Microsoft Surface] SixSixSevenSeven:
Snipped and rearranged a little.

Those first 2 points. You are running full windows 8. The only software that will not run is that which will not run under windows 8 on any system anyway or software which may lag on the surface's hardware specs. SQL Server Developer I have seen running on a netbook with a 1.2ghz intel atom single core (all of the visual studio product family seemed to run on it, sometimes a little delay on the intellisense in visual studio and compile times were longer alongside application launch but it was usable). 1.7ghz dual core i5 from the pro will easily cope.

Charger. A USB port is 5V at 500mA. USB chargers are 5V at 1200mA. Comparison that is 2.5W and 6W. The CPU of the surface alone is officially rated at 17W at full load. Chances are all you would be doing is delaying the inevitable running out of charge.
[Microsoft Surface] Linwood.Ferguson:
Mobile means always looking for an outlet

I understand that. Heck, the charger that came with the Nexus 10 could not actually keep it charged under heavy use if plugged in continuously, so USB charging is clearly not suitable for larger capacity devices.

But... out somewhere in the field or driving, no AC charger, tablet ran empty. Most of us have a USB charger in the car for phones, etc.; heck 2 of our 4 last vehicles have it built in. I have one in the boat. They are everywhere when travelling, but AC power is not.

Turn off the tablet, let it charge while driving a few hours, and while it might not be fully charged, it's a lot more charged than if you did nothing. :)

I'm not suggesting it is useful on the routine basis, but a USB to Magnet form of it (which could charge at whatever wattage the associated USB adapter could provide) would be a good "all else fails" source of power. A 5-10W USB car charger might be only 10-20% as fast as the AC charger, but that might be better than a dead screen. Turn down the brightness and if it's not in heavy it might even keep it running more or less continually, say a long drive in a car.

I should add that I do not know that it COULD work that way -- it might try to pull too much power and blow a fuse in the USB port (or breaker or just smoke it). Lion batteries need a certain voltage to charge properly, and it's conceivable that at very low amperage you couldn't even maintain that voltage, I'm not enough of a battery guy to know if it could charge that much slower.