yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] pulser_g2:
If you want, I'll put you in touch with Will tomorrow (can't remember precise punctuation of his username)

As you say, key is to protect users.

The rules should be clear. Rule 8 says (off the top of my head), "no donations up front. This isn't your job. It's a hobby. By all means people might donate, but you shouldn't be trying to get things up front".

Or words to that effect.

The trouble is we have tens of thousands of threads posted every day. As such, things don't get spotted. I'll ensure we look into this about being told it was ok though...

As a general rule, unless you're unlocking the bootloader or something equally new and magnificent (and have the proven track record to back it up), you shouldn't be trying to get donations up front.

These people know who they are, including the ones who don't often get seen in the limelight... And they likely will never have a problem... But they do physically have the space (or often wish) to keep the phone (let's face it - would you want to after bashing at it for weeks? :p), so it tends to keep moving...

Devices bought like this by users are often seen by different people in different ways. Some argue it is a gift to the dev to use as he/she pleases. Others say it's morally the property of the community.

I have seen both of these cases come up within the last day.

Unfortunately the ultimate truth is neither is definitely true... And realistically the former is closer to true. So it is important to protect users from this. They know the hardware guys won't run off with the phone. They will try what they can, then pass it on to the next in line to poke at the bootloader. Sure it's risky, but it's the only way...

I will try to get this cleared up ASAP, but going forward, the general rule of thumb is no donations up front, and no trying to buy a phone for X (which is the same).

The definition of a donation is a recourseless gratuity. But if people complain that the other dev didn't even make a rom, clearly that wasn't an unconditional gratuity? :)

Have a good night

P
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] firsttimer44:
I just don't understand why scrosler is getting hammered on this when threads like this open up every single week and never get half the scrutiny.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] Scott:
I can name 2 off the top of my head but I wont.

Thats the reason the Admin developer is being so protective. I dont blame him one bit. He doesnt know me from a hole in the ground.

They had to shut down the entire trader forum because scamming got out of hand.

And I agree the thread should remain open.

Its the internet man... Everyone needs to just chill.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] pulser_g2:
It is 2am here right now, but tomorrow I'll set about seeing if we can get something final and crystal clear. I think we have actually discussed in key issues here already. I'll try to get it formalised.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] bobcaruso:
I get your point, but don't quite understand your motive here.

This developer has over 21,000 replies, in just this site, so I think that determines his intentions here,

On a second note, not to tell you how to do your job, but as an 'Elite' Site Admin, don't you think it would have been more professional to deal with this behind the scene rather then incite this forum with your public comments?

With that said, please Don't take your self described 'Eliteness' too seriously
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] Scott:
I agree with you. I never argued with you at all. I know how shady people can be. I supervise a fraud department at one the US's top 10 banks (booo, I know, IM a banker by trade, lol).

I see people get scammed and robbed all day long...
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] TechBSwift:
You sound like the government, now you want to tell me how i can spend my money, take our right away to create a donation thread, so our favorite devs can get our phone....just like we say to the gov. F uuuuu.

Any way u guys think u got problems.... Have u ever caught your penis in your zipper?? That's real problems. That shi. happens to me all the time because I have adult A.D.D.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] Scott:
Thank you! I appreciate it!

I wish was able to keep a more level head about it (not you) but oh well, like I said, its the internet! Everyone needs to relax!

Have a good night!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] Scott:
OMGOMGOMG! Im gonna piss my pants!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] LLStarks:
Redundant bounties are pointless.

Radio differences and not-so-locked bootloaders shouldn't meet the criteria for must-have donations.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] pulser_g2:
You're more than welcome to name them in PM, but there's not much that can be done obviously in terms of getting money back. As it was an unconditional gift etc...

Yes, I was the one who pushed the button that closed the Marketplace I think (just turned out that way due to time zone and who was at a PC). The scamming was out of hand like you said.

Yup you're right - people here are by definition untrusted, as this is the Internet. Once the story came together, it was clear what was going on.

I think closing this thread would be silly. You can do it if you switch to the 2010 theme and use the thread tools menu, if it does get ridiculous. But I don't think it will. :)

The issue of donation versus gift is a problem that won't ever be solved. Every user has a different opinion on if they expect a ROM or something... I for one would never accept a device in that manner, where the community paid for it, as I can't be sure I can do what they wanted in a reasonable time scale...

But some people took it fit for granted, and at the end of the day, we have to try to preserve some development for future generations :p
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] TechBSwift:
I'm just saying this is a stupid reason to be fighting. In the end we all benefit. We should talk like men and the important things in life, money, android, ass, and tittys
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] pulser_g2:
I actually declined that title, but someone added it anyway as apparently I deserve it... I don't know, because what I do seems easy to me... But hey ho...

Regarding post count, I had to remove a user with equally massive posts and thanks for scamming a huge number of users in the marketplace.

By that I'm talking large scale fraud...

Yes it could have been done behind the scenes, but that's less transparent... Surely a system is only as transparent as you can see?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] imnuts:
It's not so much about this thread in particular, or even scrosler, just that it all came down in this thread. I don't browse many other forums than devices I own (or am looking to get), but I have heard that there have been several "Buy me a phone" or "Buy XYZ the phone" in several different forums. From what I have heard, it seems to be worst in Verizon forums, especially for the top end devices (Note 2, DNA, SGS3).

I also know of people that have gotten devices and never did anything, one user in particular that received several items from the community, but never did anything but disappear after getting them. And while "developing" anything for any device is always significantly easier with the device in hand, it is possible without the phone as well. You just need someone that is semi-competent and willing to test and provide useful feedback (logs, error messages, pictures, etc.). It is difficult, as I've done it several times on several phones.

I'm glad that this is being looked into though as there was to much unknown about it. Why were some threads allowed, and others not. Hopefully there is clearer direction given in the future with regards to these threads so we can avoid the mess that showed up in the past 10 pages and save our popcorn for something a little more interesting.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] bobcaruso:
You are full of yourself, and what I'm sure are your vast accomplishments in life, aren't you
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] pulser_g2:
Well we ain't like the government, because we actually are regular users too :) When did you last see your president out standing in line to buy his gas? :p

Nobody is stopping you doing what you want in terms of your money. Feel free to donate $15,000 to him if you like, I'm sure he would be delighted. And you would probably get on the portal doing an interview about your monstrous generosity.

The difference is the rules cover asking for money. It is illegal to beg on the streets in London. You can give a beggar money without risk of prosecution, but it is not legal to set up camp with the purpose of begging on the public street.

Nobody stops you using your money - it is just the solicitation being restricted for a clear reason.

I'm sorry to hear about your painful problems... Sounds nasty...
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] pulser_g2:
If you would prefer we left proven serial scammers prowling the site, conning people out of their hard earned cash, then be my guest...

I used that as an example of why it's not possible to judge anyone on post count, nor thanks. One of the best hardware guys actually has about 28 posts if I recall correctly.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] pulser_g2:
If you have any idea about why it happens so much on VZW so much, I'm all ears. Same for anyone else. It appears to be a big issue on Verizon for some reason...

Not a clue why... Maybe because it's CDMA?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] bobcaruso:
No, I don't prefer that, but I do prefer you re-think your methods
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] TechBSwift:
I attempted to be funny so you'll would stop going back and forth, since u can let this go...

Why can't xda create a procedure that one goes through to get permission, to create a donation thread. Xda will say ya or an depending on the persons track recorded. Scrosler has a track record that goes in questioned. He devs for 3 or more products at a time always. Those are the type of developers that should be rewarded. As new devs hit the scene will should encourage them to be as good or hard working as Scrosler.

I'm not saying everyone gets a donation thread at a certain point, I'm saying let them be allowed at a certain point and let the community decide if they want to start or donate to this person.

Example: Imnuts, I don't know anything about this guy, but I could tell his head and heart was in the game. I wanted to support him so I emailed him several times to find out if he had enough money to get his note 2. He raised most of the money on his own but still didn't have it all. I said enough is enough and started a donation thread for him. Because of the community loved his work he met his goal in no time.

Adam, beans, imnuts was the first time I donated to anyone, I did it because the love and support I felt from the community. Don't take that right from us, just make it structured.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] Scott:
I would agree with this!

Post and thanks dont always indicate honesty.

In my line of work Ih ave seen family members scam other family memobers. Wives scam the husband then leave them...

Like you said... People are untrustworthy by nature. I know this for fact. I work in Bank fraud for a living.

And its a damn shame about the market place. That sucks!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] TechBSwift:
In closing... I have been sitting on this damn toilet this entire time reading this thread, my legs are completely num and sleep... Can someone help a brother out? I don't want to be the first black guy to die on a toilet, reading an XDA thread
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] pulser_g2:
We try to leave the rules as non prescriptive as possible. That leaves it as free as possible for people to act ethically. Unfortunately some people like these scammers won't act ethically...

I think I have a plan here that would meet these criteria, but I need to discuss it with a few folks first to getting wording clear.

You can always donate to anyone you want... But it's the line between donating and going out seeking them that's where the problem lies.

If there is a scammer lurking there, reading this... I don't mind (btw scammer, look behind you right now... Did you see that move?)... But the minute they start to affect innocent users, I care a lot...

The issue is the active versus passive nature.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] pulser_g2:
Geez... I have known that kids can be prone to try to call the bank to transfer money from the parents' account to their account... But this is really pretty bad...

Yeah often the ones to trust the least are actually right beside you... :/
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] TechBSwift:
Really XDA??? You'll just going to leave me stuck on the toilet.... How the hell am I going to explain this to my wife?? Sorry I had to block out so much, what can I say.... I'm blessed!!!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] Scott:
HOLLY **** DUDE!!!!

First ROM... Is dedicated to you my friend!

Yeah man, thats why I am not concerned with your concerns. I know they are valid. I really do get it. I see it first hand daily. It sucks.

One time this lady called up, she had her credit card and statements diverted to another address. Well, I have access to progam called Lexis-Nexus for my job. Its very cool, thats all I Can say about it, I looked up the address...

Sure enough it was her daughter. Robbed her mom of 10K. Mom would have been able to have us write it off as loss but she would not prosecute...

Then the time the wife took out a credit card in the hubby's name and used it to divroce him, pay for lawyer, etc... and rack up some nordstroms and tiffany's... Then ahd him served. He Lost 25K because its not considered Fraud under Visa Internationals policy...

Then theres the typical card skimmers and hackers that comprimse databases...

I could go on... But I wont bore anyone with the nature of my job.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] Scott:
Oh dude... That was over the lines of good taste, lol
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] imnuts:
I think being CDMA is part of the problem. GSM also has a lot more users and developers to pull from, so skipping a device for GSM users doesn't really affect what is available to much, where if a CDMA developer skips a phone, there may not be much of anything for the device. The users then push for XYZ developer to get a device, and it goes from there. I feel that most of the donation threads I've seen are all started by a user, and not the developer it's for. I'm sure there are a lot of other things going on for why it's specific to Verizon (at least for the worst begging), but this is probably a start.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] jcase:
Those of us arguing against this practice are just asking for the ALREADY defined and agreed upon rules to be followed, for the better of the community in the long run. We are not trying to make up rules as we go. We are not trying to stir the pot. Most of us are long time staples of the community, we are not coming out of the woodwork without justification, experience and sane reason.

As far as the suggestion that we are jealous of donations, I ensure you I am not at all.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] TechBSwift:
Lol lol that was the dumbest thing I have ever done lol lol
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] jcase:
Often they are started by a user, at either request of, or with knowledge of a dev. Sometimes (not saying this time) they are trying to avoid the rule.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] KennyG123:
Yeah but Sprint is also cdma and does not see the same crap as Verizon.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] Scott:
Hmmm... I never knew that but it does make a lot of sense!

Just an FYI, I have been here with Winzip since... Welll... A while... I started off with the HTC Apache and worked my way through tons of Windows Mobile devices.

My first ever ROM: Titan M2D Round 4 ROM (DCD 3.2.6 and TouchFlo 2D) - 2nd November 2008, 01:25 AM

Here is another throw back some people might remember: [ROM][VZW][12.21.08]VZ Nav ROM 2.0-llllboredllll GPS Edition -(WM6.1 CE OS 5.2.20931)

Been building longer than you have been a member. Dont take that as an insult... Take it as a statement. Not trying to prove anything... Just letting you know I have been here a while too :good:
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] Scott:
Wow... I really honestly had no clue that this was going on.

I very rarely leave my own threads because when I do **** like this happens :angel:
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] jcase:
Your building time was not question, just the application of this rule.. The jcase account was originally made to be used once and never used again (hence justin case ... just - in - case), I never intended to be anything but a lurker on XDA. Don't let my account age fool you.

PS http://info-zip.org/ > winzip
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] PeartFan40:
After a long discussion, I gave the OK for Scott to create this thread. Is there a problem? Your opinions are irrelevent. Why this thread was created is none of your concern, or anyone else' s for that matter. The only people who have a say or concern are staff. Just browse XDA and mind your business and you'll be fine.

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"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] jcase:
Excuse me? Didn't seem irrelevant when I brought it up to senior moderators and the admins. Users are encouraged to report broken rules. When I first commented on the thread, I was unware a Single Forum Moderator was condoning/encouraging the breaking of the rule, else I would not had commented, and just gone straight to the serior mods.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] Scott:
Ohhhhh.... So are you not the Justin Case from Android Policy? I assumed you were?

Or is that a co-incidence or maybe a Pen name?

im so confused now...

Thank you for confirming what I stated earlier. I am sure my statements were never in question (by any one other than... one or two) but thank you for chimming in!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] jcase:
I am, and it is a pen name.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] imnuts:
I know of at least one person on Sprint that did donation begging, but I'm fairly certain they were banned here because of it. Not saying they didn't come back with a new account, but they were here before.

I really have no idea why it would be primarily on Verizon, but they are a HUGE carrier, and the more people you have on a carrier/device begging for something, the more likely you are to have scammers show up to accept any demands for the right price, and a $700 full retail phone is a pretty nice price in most cases.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] Scott:
No, wasnt a single one... There are more... Like I said, I can PM names if need be.

Its not just peart, I talked with 3 Mods and they said it was fine.

I dont want to drop names...

But I have not lied in thtis thread at any one given time... Nor will I be now...
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] Scott:
Very cool!

I have read some of your articles. Learned a lot about I/O speeds when you compared the TF series to the Gnex, to the etc etc etc...

That article helped me break the bottle neck that the Asus transformer series has. Not directly, I still had to figure out how to make it better but it let munderrstand why the device was so laggy.

However... You stated that the user experiecnce was negligible but I would tend to disagree. That device series is so laggy I had to get rid of it even after working on it for months to get rid of the lag (by modding cache pressures, write cahching values, etc... Even to the point of disable fSync) It still sucked. BUt I digress!

But good article and I refer people to it all the time!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] rmtobler:
While the argument against donating for scott to get this phone is correct, and the whole thing stinks on so many levels... scott is more than just the roms he builds (which anyone can do really)... he provides a service and reassurance with the rom that most devs never get close to matching. maybe the people complaining should take note of what he is doing that makes people want to donate their hard earned money (unnecessarily) and don't even care when it is pointed out how unnecessary and wasteful it is.

on a side note it seems people hold "devs" who "make" roms on way too high a level and get confused and seem to not appreciate or even know about the real work by real devs that is done to make most roms even worth a damn in the first place.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] jparasita:
I honestly wanted to just see more of a selection in roms cause I dont like asop roms and scott is a good guy :)
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] jcase:
That wasn't one of my articles for sure. If it is not security related, I don't post about it. No idea who it was
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] Entropy512:
Yeah... The Epic 4G Touch forums were horrible... There are some good people there, but at the beginning, it was just an utter epic disaster.

Took some guys 3 weeks to dump the stock kernel, and when they finally did, they felt it merited a logo for their team that took up the ENTIRE DAMN SCREEN in the OP of the thread...

It's also interesting in that for whatever reason, RW is very popular with the CDMA crowd, but doesn't have nearly as much to offer for GSM devices. I've always wondered if it's because the CDMA forums got a bad FSM or something here on XDA for a while or something like that.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] PeartFan40:
Learn to leave well enough alone. The decision to allow this thread was made, and supported by other moderators. End of discussion. If this disruptive, off-topic discussion continues, there will be consequences. XDA staff decisions, rules, etc. are not a democracy, and does not require endless debate about it. As I stated earlier, don't concern yourself with what staff is doing. If you see a potential violation, report it, and move on. Let this be the end of this discussion. Stay on-topic from this point forward. Thank You.

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"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] PeartFan40:
BTW: Being disruptive, argumentitive, and engaging in off-topic discussion is also a violation of the rules. Not to mention ignoring a Moderator's request.

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"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] beaups:
Maybe he had special permission from a moderator to break that rule? Apparently that's the norm here.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] AdamOutler:
Sorry.. I'm not reading the entire thread... I like keeping my legs from going numb... Am I supposed to do something? You want to run a contest and I'll write it up on the Portal? Develop something cool and win? Show your proposal and get the most thanks? Retweet the post? Last one to post random thread closure contest? The best one-liner via thanks? Want Will Verduzco (portal admin) to make a Portal post about it? It's up to you. Let me know.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] PeartFan40:
Apperently my requests to refrain from disruptive, off-topic discussion didn't work. Check your inbox.

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"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] beaups:
Yawn. I'll miss you.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] vxkid:
Ayn Rand called and she wants her username back.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] guthrien:
We're all on the same team here ultimately. The good of xda. Be cool.

Glad you're on board Scott. If you're not one of the good ones I don't know who is.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] vxkid:
I can indeed help: "numb"
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] thunderbread:
This thread has become a big ****ing joke. Scott has made great roms. Ive enjoyed his work since my Rezound. I think it is very crazy that hes been attacked in this thread. He is one dev that had alwsys answered my pm's or comments and provided some of the best work out there. Shame on the people that are giving him **** and recieved donations to buy their GN2. Scott i cant wait for cleanROM. :D
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II] BeansTown106:
Wow just wow, after this thread is done i even see mods getting banned.. thats all lol