yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] mreik:
I don't comment much but the replies in this thread are ridiculous. It's a simple question. I also bought this phone knowing that the camera wasn't its best feature, but I'm also curious if there is a way to improve the software/drivers to improve it. There have been several examples on XDA where this has happened. If you're going to be an Internet tough guy and only offer useless posts then don't post, you not only waste your time but the OPs too.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] KyraOfFire:
I have a suggestion. You can rephrase the question, to something like this:

"I found out that the Nexus 4 has IMX111PQ camera module, which should be on par with the IMX145 found in iPhone 4s. Yet the quality of the image is somewhat lacking [...]"

Citing reviews from some website just invites the trolls waiting around to waste your time.

Back to your question.

I don't think Nexus 4's camera is on par with iPhone 4s or GSG 3's camera. For starter, the pixel size is 20% (edit: 25%) smaller, thus more noises.

But, I do believe in the same thing as Mindroid, akbisw and thebeastglasser, that math can do magic and someone will figure out something to make it works better.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -Mindroid-:
Thanks, KyraOfFire!

I spent a lot of time thinking how to phrase my question without inviting the trolls. :silly:

GSMarena did scientific benchmarks, their review states the facts, not an opinion.

Can you verify the camera module in the Nexus4 is IMX111PQ (link)? I will update the OP.

AnandTech claims the LG Optimus 4X HD has that camera module.

Using the GSMarena's Image Compare Tool I can see that the LG Optimus 4X has much better

noise performance than the Nexus 4. The colors on the LG 4X are a bit off though.

If both phones share the same camera hardware it seems that the Nexus4 noise issue could indeed

be caused by a bad software calibration.

http://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=1&idPhone1=5048&idPhone2=4563&idPhone3=4238
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] KyraOfFire:
Hi Mindroid, I am glad I could help.

Nexus 4 detailed technical breakdown can be found here

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1964850

It is claimed that the module number is from the kernel source code

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=33645116&highlight=camera#post33645116

Edit: I looked at the photos.

Nexus 4 is clearly more noisy than Optimus 4X HD, but it is also somewhat sharper.

Assuming the information is correct and the two phones share the same camera chip, the software can definitely be tuned.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] atoy74:
Wow, who are you guys? The OP asked a simple and reverent question in the right subforum. Proof of what's become of XDA.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] macr0t0r:
Okay, we had a similar question in the HTC Inspire thread, and we ended up with a good list of camera settings (reduce sharpness, don't use auto-ISO, etc). We get the same question in the Nexus 4 thread and you guys jump down his throat. Nice.

My Nexus 4 hasn't arrived yet, so I haven't had a chance to experiment with it. Admittedly, there is only so much you can do with low-cost hardware, but there are techniques to consider. Until we get some useful answers, you may want to consider some of the things we did for the HTC Inspire (which also has a bit of a lackluster camera):

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=875230

- Jim
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] KyraOfFire:
Great thread indeed. If I have time (probably next week), I'll get a camera app that can enable those settings (hint:stock camera app doesn't have those settings) and do some science :D
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -Mindroid-:
I tried the lgCamera app from the Play Store which is supposed to allow more settings like ISO.

I don't think it's working, the pictures look very similar on all ISO settings. It's impossible to tell

for sure because the picture headers don't have the ISO information.

My old Chinese phone has an Engineering Menu that exposes some of the hardware parameters.

Is there anything similar in Jelly Bean?
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] murse:
You could try Camera FV-5 from the play store. I've used it on my One S and it offers a lot of manual controls. My N4 arrives tomorrow so can't tell you how it works, yet, for this phone.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Locklear308:
Agreed, the man asked if the camera can be improved. Don't freaking defend the crappy camera. This is xda. This is where we mod **** till it freaking explodes. Not whine and defend stuff.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] late8:
Forget picture quality what about sound ! Its terrible on recordings. Background noise sounds garbled. In fact its a chorus for flanger type effect which could be down to the stereo mics?
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] miicho85:
Trolls are Trolls OP back to topic it would be great if someone can tweak the camera for better performance
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Monk4Life:
Wow! We seriously have some people that need to learn what XDA is all about. OP don't listen to all the people giving their negative criticism that doesn't even pertain to your direct curiosity regarding our phones. I feel the same way as you. I did not buy this phone for the sheer camera quality but I hope a few updates down the road fix the noise that shows up in a lot of the pictures that I take.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] reaperofwaywardsouls:
Maybe Camera JB + in the play store will work for you. Supposed to be like the stock app but with control over iso, jpeg compression, some filters, wide screen photo capture...etc

Only issue is that it ain't free....
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] kcm117:
It can take good pictures, just need to know how to take pictures.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Monk4Life:
Pictures up close with flash or in low light areas don't turn out well. Broad daylight pics have no issues.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] akbisw:
To the trolls and nonbelievers here is an example of modding the compression and allowing full 40mbps recording on HTC sensation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgGQAoJSIFg

thats a year old (older?) phone with pretty weak camera module to begin with. HTC quickly released AMAZE 4g with better camera because of the "hate" they received for the sensation camera.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] richteralan:
Let me tell you this, those settings are just going to affect image quality marginally. You will not see a significant improvement tinkering camera settings.

Your best bet of taking better pictures:

1. Learn how to take pictures.

2. Actually go out and take pictures.

3. By pictures I mean real photography, not stupid dog/cat/squirrel/chipmunk pictures.

The image quality of Nexus 4 is mostly affected by the JPG compression, which is coded inside camera APK and/or the framework. Until somebody decode that mess we won't see real improvement.

So chill and go out and enjoy.

P.S. A missed photo opportunity is missed. A incorrectly exposed picture can be (partially) saved with Lightroom/Photoshop. Stop worrying, Start picturing.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Ivan Fuentes Hagar:
I'm a long time photographer... don't expect the phone to perform better than my DSLRs, but I would like the autofocus to bounce a little less. Although that "Camera JB+" seems to have some nice features.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] :
I'll chime in a second time either live with it or get another phone, not everyone has this phone and simply asking for a fix for something is what everyone ALWAYS does, you could have PM'd someone who has the ability, like some devs, and seen if they're willing to help, might be dead end since he doesn't work exclusively for you to be happy but seriously I expect the N4 to have a good camera in good lighting, every other situation it should be crap! I'm still waiting on mine but I'm under no delusions about what I ordered. Get a DSLR an shut up! If a mod does come up in the future, good but you'll need some patience, I'm sure your not the first person who noticed something so obvious
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] kirdroid:
Then why the hell are you in xda? Just shut up with whatever rom, apps, features the phone comes with and be happy?

I'm looking to buy a Nexus 4 and currently have the one x+. The op has a valid question and he asks if the camera can be improved or not. Answering like live with whatever you have is kind of ridiculous. What are you some 10 year old?
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Richieboy67:
I was actually really impressed with the camera. I am sure there are better camera apps like zoom hd but for a phone camera I think this cam takes excellent pics. Right up there with the i phone camera...
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] KyraOfFire:
I am not in photography, but I am in photospectrometry.

As long as there is someone out there willing do dig into the mess and fix the algorithm, crappy hardware can churn out amazing results. Hubble Space Telescope had misaligned lens and they could still developed algorithm and did great science with it. Now, I am not saying it's easy or someone will be willing do do the dirty job. I am just saying that there's more in taking picture than just the hardware, or the software. It's also the freaking FFT in between.

Personally, I seriously doubt any devs will spend time to fix the camera anytime soon because it's a pretty low priority problem (low yield, high work) and I'll just be happy but what I am having. I have a point and shoot for casual hangouts and a DSLR when I do NEED to take pictures.

OP: If noise is the problem, a camera app that is capable of taking multiple picture then combining them to one will do the trick (or built in HDR mode for example). More pictures => more signal => reduced signal to noise ratio.

The problem: it takes longer to take and to process the images.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] filthykid:
God, are you for real? I mean you don''t even own this phone and you are criticizing him?

I bet this guy would be the first to come, check this thread and even bookmark it (for future purposes)..once he gets his phone.

lol dork.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] :
I've checked enough images including those in these forum, to know how it generally performs and its only good when there's ample lighting, I don't have to have first hand experience to critique photo quality, you must be stupid for making such an assumption. The camera sucks and as I said, its obvious as **** to anybody, you think he's the only one with enough sense to realize that, fact is he should be patient and wait for a dev to use HIS free time to make a mod. If he doesn't have the skills to do it himself he should sit tight and wait like the rest of us, what gives him the right to feel he's entitled to **** when he knew before hand the camera wasn't so great. I'm criticizing this entitlement mentality!!!

I'll also add I would really appreciate such a functionality but a discussion at this point in time is fruitless, and is just mental masturbation
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] filthykid:
Well you are just arguing for the sake of argument, James Bond. This is XDA..where if you feel there is any issue in so-n-so device, come and read. If you cant find much info. just post a thread and bring in into the knowledge of developers. Who knows, may be a developer sees numerous posts in a "Any way to improve N4 camera's image quality" kinda thread and gives it a try to improve the image quality of N4's camera. Who knows? At the end, we all will be benefited..not just him.

Besides, did you even care asking him if he knew about the camera quality, why did he opt for this particular phone? He may have several reasons for it. And if he finds anything imperfect in the device he loves, he can always ask for any tweaks to make it better.

If this fruitless discussion is putting your brain into a "mental masturbation" mode... better not reply. As I believe when the discussion grows further, you might put a blame on OP for putting your mind into "an** se*" mode.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -Mindroid-:
Asasione, you are wrong. Discussing issues is always helpful even if it doesn't produce tangible results.

In just 2 days we collected some good info. It would be difficult for one person to research all of this on their own.

The camera module is Sony Exmor R IMX111PQ. The public datasheet mentions an image processing unit in the package.

The same module is used in the LG Optimus 4X HD. GSMarena has scientific benchmark samples from both phones.

It is obvious looking at pictures from both phones that there is less noise on the LG Optimus 4X HD.

The engineering datasheet of the camera module (IMX111PQ) is most likely protected by a non-disclosure agreement

so I don't hold any hope of getting our hands on that. However, there must be some communication between Android

and the camera module. The hope is that the camera is 'dumb' module and the algorithms controlling the system

reside within the Operating System.

I'm not suggesting messing with the algorithms, although for somebody in the industry that would be a walk in the park.

I would first look into tweaking the parameters for the JPG compression and smoothing filters. A developer might be able

to expose the high-level parameters that and give us the ability to tweak them. When that functionality is available even a

person without a high-tech studio like myself can setup a simple rig to compare different settings.

If the source code for the LG Optimus 4X HD is available it might be easy to see what exactly is used to reduce the noise.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] :
I'm sure the camera quality can be improved (its a matter of who will do it IMO), probably just LG did a sloppy job to make the N4 a less attractive phone than Optimus G, Samsung did it with the Galaxy Nexus so it doesn't surprise me, probably same with the processor throttle and the screen calibration as its slightly worse than Optimus G, its all about money but who cares I get an awesome phone at a good price
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -Mindroid-:
DSLR don't necessarly take better pictures than phones

"If you want better pictures go buy an DSLR"... Not!!

I hate to go off-topic and I know this will generate a ton of opinions so please refrain from responding

unless you have extensive photography experience AND can refute my statements with hard facts.

I own an old 8MP DSLR and in certain conditions my old Chinese Star B63M phone can take better pictures.

How is that possible? The advantage of a DSLR is in the size of the sensor and the zoom lens.

A large sensor generally translates in better sensitivity. However, recent advances in digital photography

are producing tiny sensors with the sensitivity of large sensors from a few years a go.

Zoom lenses exhibit a crucial flaw - they restrict A LOT of light. The zoom lens on my DSLR has an aperture

limit of f5.6!! The lens on the Nexus 4 has f2.4 if i'm not mistaken. The difference from one aperture stop to

the next is double so from the closest f2.8 to the next f4.0 is 2 times. From f4.0 to f5.6 is another 2 times

so in essence the sensor of my phone sees more than 4 times the amount of light than my DSLR!!!

The disadvantage of a cell phone camera is the lack of optical zoom.

You can buy a prime lens (non-zoom) with f1.4 for DSLR but I find it a bit unpractical for most consumers to

carry around a heavy camera with no zoom capabilities.

Yes, the zoom lens on my old DSLR is pretty bad. I could upgrade to a modern zoom lens with Image Stabilization

that goes an f-stop lower. Or for the same money I could buy buy a cell phone with a f2.0 camera.

Of course there's no substitute for having the right tool for the right job. But the flexibility of having a phone

in your pocket that can snap beautiful photos is a great advantage for most consumers. DSLRs are only a

valuable investment for professionals and dedicated hobbyists.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] richteralan:
OK Let's see,

Before I start, let me post one picture I took years ago on a ****ty point and shoot.

Now,

Right. Better camera does not mean better pictures.

A larger sensor means lower noise, better optical lens, better DoF, better ISO sensitivity. Despite recent advances in digital photography, small sensors still CANNOT match bigger sensors in terms of things I mentioned above. Why? Physics. No matter how advanced the small sensor is, small means less light passing to the sensor, as a result you need high amplification of the signal, which leads to noise. Also, small sensor in a small package means fewer lens elements, which leads to higher distortion. Physics.

Partially correct, depends on which zoom lenses you are talking about. Which again, shows you know not much about photography. With the kit lens of your old 8MP DSLR, the aperture usually is f3.5~5.6, some better ones are f3.5~f4.5. Well if you are aware, there are zoom lenses with constant aperture. Those lenses DO NOT restrict a lot of light. And guess what, even with your kit lens on the f5.6 end with an ASP-C format DSLR, the light passed through is more or less the same as your tiny phone sensor with a f2.4.

You will be surprised how many people failed to use zoom lenses properly. And how many people didn't bother with their smartphone camera zoom.

All your argument is based on your mis-information about aperture. Aperture value is not an absolute scale. It has to put in context with the sensor size. A f2.4 on a 1/2.5" doesn't mean more light pass through than a f5.6 on a APS-C.

My point is, the camera on Nexus 4 is plenty enough for photography. The noise level is acceptable. The color is acceptable. The distortion is acceptable. Hell, you have built-in image photoshopping apps to make your pictures more punchy.

If you still want more quality, then it's time to learn manual exposure and zoom lenses on a real camera, which offers you MUCH more control.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -Mindroid-:
I'm not a photography expert so please correct me if I'm wrong but are you sure that

the relative nomenclature of aperture f-stops defeats my argument?

The way I understand it - yes more light is needed to illuminate a larger sensor because

the surface is larger but the aperture describes the intensity of the light passing, not the amount of it.

Both - a small and a large sensor at the same ISO and the same shutter speed will

produce similar pictures for the same aperture value.

Am I wrong?

I am comparing an old DSLR to a new phone and to be fair sensors based on recent technology

are way ahead of what they used to be a few years a go.

The picture above is obviously taken on a tripod with a very long exposure. Judging from the car light trails

I am guessing longer than 5sec. Cheap point-and-shoot cameras that allow the user to set shutter speed are rare.

In any case this is one of the points of this thread. I want options for the shutter speed and ISO on my phone.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -Mindroid-:
I tried lgCamera and Camera FV-5 from the Play Store. (The free versions only).

FV-5 can change the ISO and it shows that in the picture headers. lgCamera probably does

as well but it's harder to verify. Changing the ISO alone did not produce very

different results because the shutter speed changes automatically to compensate.

I verified this by looking at the image headers.

FV-5 had settings for the shutter speed but I had trouble using them. They have ambiguous

labels such as "Short" and "Long". When I tried to use them the ISO setting became disabled.

I saw no strong point in upgrading over the stock 4.2 camera app.

The stock camera app is inconsistent in writing information in the image header. Usually

the ISO information is missing but once in an indoor shot I noticed an ISO of 6200.

I doubt the camera sensor has such capabilities - it's most likely a calculation taking in

account any added exposure compensation.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] richteralan:
Yes, you are wrong. I don't have time to spell out f-number, focal length and sensor size for you. Wikipedia is a good start, along with some photography forums. A larger sensor is WAY MORE sensitive than small sensors. That's why Full Frame DSLRs can have ISO value as high as 25600 and produces image looks the same as your phone sensor in ISO 400.

The "way ahead" technology you are saying is noise-reduction technology, mostly software side. Affect image quality marginally. Do not think newer noise-reduction algorithm can compete with larger sensor image quality wise. Take a picture with Nikon D1 and Nexus 4, you will still notice D1 captures way more detail than Nexus 4.

It's not on a tripod, but on a flat surface. And I did not adjust any shutter speed settings. Full Auto (wait till some photographers tell me NEVER GO FULL...).

My point is, the camera on Nexus 4 is MORE THAN ENOUGH for what you and 99% smartphone camera users want to do. If you want more, buy a real camera, because those P/S/A/M modes are useless on a smartphone. How to make an interface to adjust all those parameters? Used 3 minutes to do M mode aaaaaaaaaaannnnnd the photo chance is gone....

It's WAY MORE IMPORTANT to capture the picture than worry about trivial image quality.

Hence, stop worrying, start picturing.

---------- Post added at 09:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:23 PM ----------

I wonder why you care about EXIF info that much. There are free EXIF editors for Windows if that's what you want.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] 666fff:
I'm happy with the quality. Just waiting on an update to patch the bugs.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] KyraOfFire:
Dude, that's a stock photo that can be easily found on the internet. It's even the same file from these sources

http://e30werks.com/work walls/01357_wanchaihongkong_1440x900.jpg

http://whatsyourbackground.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/01357_wanchaihongkong_1440x9001.jpg

http://wallpaperstock.net/wanchai-hong-kong_wallpapers_6768_1440x900_1.html

And I bet my own point and shoot that it's a ****ty lie that YOU took it with a POINT AND SHOOT.

While it's true that any phone's camera now is no where as good as a good DSLR from 7-10 years ago, you forgot BSI sensors. It's a hardware change, and it helps cellphone & point n shoot tremendously.

Correct EXIF info, image labeling is important for that guy as he wants to quantify image quality changes versus settings.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] richteralan:
Yeah I don't expect you to be able to pull that off. But unfortunately I took that picture and I submitted and got accepted at interfacelift.com earliest.

Unfortunately I didn't put a Creative Common license on the picture so it got copied around the interweb. Even seen some commercial store use it as wallpaper. Well I got smarter then!

I still have the original JPG.

edit: ah found the link

http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper/details/1357/wanchai,_hong_kong.html

Have fun! I don't need your P&S. Can you eBay it and send me the cash please.

BSI sensors are minor changes. Mostly marketing BS.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] KyraOfFire:
I'll just stop here. Not going to argue over the internet.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] richteralan:
Thank you. Wise decision.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] miku3191:
Doesn't influence me a lot !

Bought Nexus 4 for its amazing specs and such a low cost ! Quad core processor, 2 Gigs of RAM, Although it is also equipped with 8MP Sony exmor camera ! I don't know, why you ain't like it ! ;)