yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 10 General] e.mote:
>1 - Media Consumption) In the consumption of media, the N10 wins on resolution obviously and that has the biggest impact when reading text. Even bigger fonts look better on a high-res screen.

For videos/movies, actually a 720p display is best. Clarity is hardest to discern with moving images, and fidelity isn't perceptibly impacted at 720p on a 10". More practically, tablets of this gen are limited by both storage and (streaming) bandwidth to 720p content. Then, having a higher-res display would only worsen fidelity, as the image needs to be upscaled to fit the display res. The few tech-heads here aside, not too many people will be watching 1080p on their N10, let alone 1440p (there ain't no 1440p content).

High-res for text makes sense, but only to a certain point, after which then it's a specs pissing contest. The point-of-diminishing return varies depending on the person. For me, it's at 1080p for 10" display. Anyway, if you're big on reading (text), a 16:10 aspect tablet isn't ideal in the first place. People get widescreen tabs for movies first, reading second.

>the nexus has no sd slot hampering it's use as a media device

Nexus tabs' poor connectivity (and storage) is likely intentional in exchange for their lower prices, so OEMs can differentiate. It's safe to say that if the N10 were under the Samsung Galaxy label, it would be more than $400/500.

As far as a "poor media device" for not having a SD slot, frankly speaking that only applies to a small segment of the user population, ie those with an offline library of non-DRM (read: probably warezed) movies. The majority of users would get their video fix from online sources, which obviates the need for a SD slot.

>For productivity apps, the dock is a big help in my infinity

Android at this point in its life cycle isn't about productivity. It's about consumption, and if Google is to be believed, it's about consumption of Google Play content. The productivity thing is frankly overrated when it comes to tablets, as Asus can probably tell you from its crummy sales of the TF line.

Many think that combining tablets with an integrated keyboard (aka hybrids) is the mobile productivity solution. Microsoft and associated vendors certainly thought so for this Q4. Win8's reported 1% tablet sales would say differently.

Note here that I'm not arguing for or against any tablet.
[Nexus 10 General] asdfuogh:
I think there has a been noted trend towards more productivity based tablets (check the transformer line, Lenovo's thinkpad, Galaxy Note 10.1).

EDIT:

Wanted to qualify what I meant: I mean, sure, Android tablets are mainly geared toward media consumption at the moment, but why is that? They have to take shares of the market back from Apple, and all Apple has done is media consumption. Because of Apple's popularity, current tablet users only expect this purpose for tablets and so it would not be beneficial to introduce a tablet that could do more, given that there has not been a proven market for productivity based tablets. Of course, maybe as these newer tablets gain more and more productive features, we'll see the courting of people who used to use the $1000~$2000 Windows tablets into this new tablet market.
[Nexus 10 General] jonstrong:
I'd agree that Android tablets probably aren't suited to being the primary productivity device for most users at the current state of the art. Maybe, though, my use case is unique. I was on a plane 3 to 5 times a month, and had numerous day trips to client and project sites, and I wound up having to lug a laptop and brick with me every time. It started to dawn on me, however, that I rarely needed

all

the productivity capabilities of a full blown PC on these trips. I needed email, web and cloud storage access, and I generally needed to be able to open / show / review Word and PowerPoint documents. I also needed to be able to make minor edits to existing Office docs while on the road -- very different than having to author such docs from scratch.

Consumption is the primary use for me, but the level of productivity that I often need while on the road can easily be satisfied by current Android tablets. Re: physical keyboard -- the Infinity unit is certainly elegant, especially with the extra battery in it, but it was too cramped for me to really type on, so I constantly wound up (when I still had the Infinity) detaching the keyboard and using Swype instead, and that was fine for the amount of typing I needed to do while mobile.

Odds are, once I have the N10, I'll opt for a full size BT keyboard like Logitech's, and only bring it on those trips where I think Swype would just be too cumbersome (10%?).

So yes - consumption is my primary use, but I definitely have a particular need for moderate productivity support while traveling, and an Android tablet seems to be a good option as an alternative to a full blown laptop.
[Nexus 10 General] BarryH_GEG:
Ding. Ding. Ding. We have a winner! Two things about PPI.

1) The human eye can't resolve anything higher than 229 PPI at 15" or greater.

2) Images (moving and still) don't align with the pixel grid of the display and are therefore are going to look the same at 720P as they would at a higher resolution.

"For most people, though, it won't matter. Photos are inherently fuzzy, so it won’t matter whether they’re viewed on a 1920×1080 or 1280×720 smartphone display; you’ll still see their imperfections. "Even the tiniest image detail in a photograph is always spread over more than one pixel," Dr. Soneira explained in a follow-up e-mail. "The image detail is never perfectly aligned with the pixel structure of the display." Videos are even worse: not only are they fuzzy like photographs, but the pictures are constantly moving. Even if the images were sharp, the human brain couldn’t zero in on content that’s appearing for only a fraction of a second on such a small display. "For ordinary viewing of videos, 1920×1080 is really not going to make a visual difference," adds Dr. Soneira.

After about 15 inches, "the much higher 326 ppi is 'wasted' because the eye can't resolve sharpness above 229 ppi." The further away a person gets, the more gradual the reduction in perceived image sharpness."​

And to echo your point about upscaling.

"A 1080p display might also be useful for simply viewing 1920×1080 content and not worrying about scaling. "Every time you rescale content that’s scaled for some other resolution, it’s not going to look as good. So there’s an advantage to living with 1920×1080 even if your eye can’t appreciate the fine details, because you don’t have the rescaling artifacts," he says."
​

The only place the higher resolution makes a difference is computer-generated content like the UI, icons, and text. And that's holding your device 10" away or less.

"Only computer-generated images make full use of the pixel resolution of the display," says Dr. Soneira. "For graphics and text, maybe you want that kind of sharpness."​

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/10/1080p-on-a-smartphone-screencan-it-possibly-matter/

But it sure will drive a lot of Play media purchases. ;)

You have to give Samsung credit for going the direction they did with the Note(s). Ironically, replacing a paper and pen turned out to be a more desirable form of "creation" than all the attempts to turn Android tablets in to pseudo-laptops with bolt or slip on keyboard attachments. .

---------- Post added at 09:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 PM ----------

The only one that's selling is the Note. Looking at Asus' 10" tablet sales for Q3 they are below last years numbers (2.4MM minus 2MM N7's) and that's offering both the TF300 at the low-end and TF700 at the high-end. You don't get points for solving problems people don't know they have. Samsung sold 2MM Note 10.1's in the first two months they were on the market which means, at the 1MM a month run-rate Asus claims for the N7, it's selling just as fast. Whether people really need a pen or not is debatable but it sure is resonating in the market.
[Nexus 10 General] asdfuogh:
Really good points here. I wonder if the problem with Asus' sales were their bad press with the TF Prime though? What with all the wifi and GPS issues, I would have expected a much lower sales number compared to their first tablet (which had problems sure, but nowhere near as horrendous).
[Nexus 10 General] BarryH_GEG:
Your post made me think of something. Asus marketing their tablets as "transformers" may be a gift and a curse. A "gift" for the niche that's looking to turn their Android tablet in to a quasi-laptop and a "curse" for the majority that may overlook Asus' tablets thinking they don't need a keyboard even though it's a stand-alone option. And the drones at Best Buy that are receiving spifs from Samsung for pushing their tablets certainly aren't going to take the time to explain it. All the issues we're talking about probably dented Asus' sales, especially with retailers who have to deal with all the returns and exchanges, but I think it's more the lack of a competitive global distribution network to get their devices in front of people. That's one area where Samsung's extremely dominant and it reflects in their sales. If you look at the chart, if 2MM of the sales were the Note 10.1, that means Samsung sold 3.1MM tablets whose specs compared to Teg3/FHD devices were pretty piss poor. Samsung's becoming like Toyota and Honda; you can't go wrong by buying either even though there may be flashier choices.
[Nexus 10 General] e.mote:
>I think there has a been noted trend towards more productivity based tablets (check the transformer line, Lenovo's thinkpad, Galaxy Note 10.1).

Speaking in the main, no 10" tablet has had any impact outside of iPad, with or without productivity. Maybe the productivity angle will play at some point down the road, but the only demonstrable hook thus far is low price. If productivity is to find a foothold, we'll see it first in the Win8 hybrid crop, which hasn't gotten anywhere so far.

I'm down on "productivity tablet" for the compromises entailed. We have all used netbooks, and wimpy specs and cramped keyboard aside, the tiny 10" screen was the biggest pain. But for tablets, 10" is the limit for comfortable handheld use. The dichotomy is irreconciliable.

There are other compromises. The largest is the touch UI, which uses your Fat Finger(tm) to directly interact with screen elements. This requires low display info density, which is exacerbated by the already-small screen. Imagine how you would manage a spreadsheet of average size on a tablet.

Microsoft's failing attempts in making a good pitch for Win8 devices (incl its Surface tabs) is emblematic of the shortfalls of "productivity tablets." Clumsy marketing aside, it's at the heart of Win8's inability to get MS Office working on the Metro. The "Fat Finger Fail" is the bane of touch UI.

This isn't to say that tablets can't be used for productivity. It's suitable for light work, eg note taking, correspondence, etc. That suffices for many users. But the tablet won't replace the laptop, just as the laptop didn't replace the desktop. The categories aren't mutually exclusive, but complimentary (albeit with major overlaps).

These said, I do think that "productivity tablets" will be the next logical step in computing, just not in the near term. The abovementioned constraints are all solveable, and would be good fodder for discussion.
[Nexus 10 General] Randomwalker:
Actually any reasonable up-scaling algorithm will render pictures in a way that almost always improves IQ over the lower res version on the same canvas size.
[Nexus 10 General] espionage724:
I store media on my Nexus 10 just fine :p Didn't even need a SD card on my Galaxy Tab when I had it lol... but then again I'm not a heavy media-user. I'd feel that Streaming stuff on my own network would be better anyway (don't have to sit and wait for a file to copy to copy to my N10; a file that might not even transfer anyway since MTP is a total pain in my experience for large single files and many small files)
[Nexus 10 General] BarryH_GEG:
Have you played with a Note 10.1? If not, you should. Multiview, S-Pen, and S-Note really do allow you to be more productive. The ability to capture or create a wide range of content and compile it together (or save it in the persistent scrap book for future use) takes pulling together rough ideas and project creation to a different level. Another example, if I see something pertinent either for work or something I want to share with a friend I can just lasso it anywhere on the display in any app and send it via an e-mail, MMS, or post it to social in two steps. Because Android devices are instant-on if something hits you it's easy to just whip out the device and add your thoughts to a project (or start a new one). S-Note even works on the lock screen so you don't even have to open an app to capture an idea. Even when I'm at my desktop PC I'll import a document for review in to the Note and use S-Pen to mark it up simply because it's faster and easier. Things like formula and shape recognition and surprisingly excellent handwriting recognition introduce new and effective ways of interacting with the device. The Note adds a new dimension to getting content in to the device and manipulating it. I'm so hooked on it I gave up the Teg3 One X I was happy with for a Note II. I don't view it as a replacement for any other tools I use I view it as a unique and valuable addition. This isn't a commercial for the Note, just sharing that there are many different non-traditional ways of looking at mobile device productivity.

P.S. - If you do decide to play with one wait for the JB update. It has made it a "new" device because of the additional and refined features.

---------- Post added at 11:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 AM ----------

Whether it's an issue or not really depends on how people use their devices. I travel a lot; quite a bit of it internationally. So for eight hour plane flights or being at the mercy of sketchy (and potentially pricey) Internet connections I load my devices up with content before a trip. The same thing would apply for family road trips. And a removable SD card solves the MTP problem. Putting a class 10 SD card in a USB 3.0 card reader takes the chore out of moving large files. And the amount of content you want available is only limited by the number of SD cards you're willing to buy. But for people that use their devices at home or aren't big video watchers 16/32GB of fixed storage could be just fine.
[Nexus 10 General] asdfuogh:
The Note 10.1 is definitely more productive in the sense that I'm doing more with it in what I do (physics classes, can't type that stuff).

I've also had experience being pretty productive with my Transformer and Google Drive. However, I think we'll be going the way of computing servers instead of having a portable local computing device (like.. Wolfram Alpha).
[Nexus 10 General] aznmode:
Just got my N10 today and am writing this on my tf700 however since it has a kb. The N10 definitely runs circles on the tf700 when it comes to performance. No hiccup yet with any HD games or apps I threw at it. Its a beast. I can see however that even though the screen is higher resolution, the contrast isnt as high compared to the tf700 that I find tf700 screen to be better. I can barely tell much difference unless I use the tablet 5 inches away from my face but who does that. N10 also has a warmer screen and my tf700 has more cooler screen which I actually prefer even on my TV settings. Do they use other panels for the n10? I went through a few Asus prime last year and notice some screens were warmer and some were cooler. I'll find out when I get an exchange as there is major light bleed on the bottom right. The tf700 has some too but not noticeable in day light. KB...I really missed my kb on the asus since I come to xda a lot. Will have to look for an alternative BT kb. Speakers...n10 eats up the t700. Its great finally listening to stereo sound. Games and music come alive. The screen though is kinda bugging me the most. So with that, I think the OP has some valid points but at the same time I think others who defend the n10 also has some points. IMO they both have their drawbacks and advantages. It seems to me thought that the n10 will be more future proof.
[Nexus 10 General] BarryH_GEG:
Here's what Anand said about the N4's color calibration. His test of the N10's display is due out soon. Since it's s/w, maybe updates will improve accuracy and temperature.

I’ve mentioned that Google continues to struggle at calibrating their displays. The truth is that everyone except for Apple, HTC, and occasionally Samsung, struggle at calibrating mobile displays. This continues to be the case with the Nexus 4, and the result is that accuracy could be better. I’m convinced the results that we’re getting out of the Nexus 4 basically represent no attempt at calibrating the display, and as a result the numbers suffer.​

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6440/google-nexus-4-review/6
[Nexus 10 General] charliearthur:
I appreciate the thorough and honest review but all your explanations are based on a stock and non-modified product. We have the devs here on XDA to help fix that :highfive:

I can't go too long on a non-rooted/hacked product!
[Nexus 10 General] e.mote:
>Multiview, S-Pen, and S-Note really do allow you to be more productive. The ability to capture or create a wide range of content and compile it together (or save it in the persistent scrap book for future use) takes pulling together rough ideas and project creation to a different level.

Good point. The tablet is an emerging form, and new software categories will arise to take advantage of it. Scrapbooking, ad hoc sharing, and whiteboarding are collaborative-work examples ideally suited to the tablet.

[I'm reminded of the UI mock-ups for the stillborn MS Courier. Video below for a retrospective peek.]

Likewise, I'm cognizant of the tablet's successes in fitting into various niche and vertical needs. Travelling professionals (road warriors), medical, and any profession that needs computing on-the-go will be at the forefront of tablet adoption. These are all productive uses.

I'll qualify "productivity" in my previous post as for "traditional" software categories, which still make up the main of business uses, and which still can't be undertaken on mobile devices. The post was more a reaction to Microsoft's one-size-fits-all approach in shoehorning Metro UI onto every platform. It's same failed philosophy in shoehorning the Windows UI onto WinMo, and I'm shocked to see MS repeating the same mistake. I suppose when you have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

Getting back to Android, let me wax pragmatic and say that while the tablet has promising new (productive) uses for the future, for the present it's still a consumer play, and the core uses still revolve around consumption--web, social, vids, and games. "Work" is not a factor in that equation, and prelim indications are that it won't be any time soon. Again, this is speaking for the main.

The next step in the platform war is shaping up to be the living room, in which tablets will play a large role. From the tech grapevine, Apple is gearing up to ship its AppleTV, MS is readying the new XBox and its Windows integration under the "services and devices" mantra, and of course Google is still trying to resuscitate the somnolent GoogleTV, after the spectular failure of the Q-ball this past summer. That's where the focus lies, and the productivity stuff is still on the backburner. Maybe 2014?

[YOUTUBE]GlpftPSuXe4[/YOUTUBE]
[Nexus 10 General] jonstrong:
While classic productivity apps like word processing, spreadsheets and presentation software aren't yet up to the level they're at on Windows or IOS, we've also talked about screen size being a potential limiting factor to the use of 10" tablets as primary content creation tools. Office-style apps are improving, however, and as I recall MS is planning an Android release of Office is targeted for early summer 2013. Android LibreOffice is also anticipated for 2013.

While I certainly appreciate larger screens for content creation (24" on my desk currently, and formerly a user of multi-screen arrays -- in one scenario an array of six 21" screens), I also spent many hundreds of hours using a Lenovo x201 laptop (work issued) with a 12" screen. I'd dock it with a 24" monitor when home, but spent more time at client sites and in various office locations with just the laptop. Our firm deployed thousands of consultants using one or another variant of the same model over the last few years, with MS Office, Project, and various software IDE's used heavily on them. Although I would take any opportunity to use a larger auxiliary monitor, it was clear that a 12" laptop -- with the right apps on it -- was certainly sufficient as a primary productivity tool platform.

I still don't anticipate one of the current 10" tablets replacing my laptop just yet -- but it's not that far off for many business uses and certainly works for a subset of them. I'm wondering if the right apps would make the needed difference, or if tablets in business as content creation tools will start to work if the industry moves to 12" tablets - a size that I know, for a fact, can easily suffice as a primary work platform.
[Nexus 10 General] BarryH_GEG:
I agree. Using faux-Office and a keyboard on an Android tablet gets you half-ass productivity and good consumption. Using real Office on a W8 RT tablet gets you decent productivity and half-ass everything else. Using real Office on a W8 Pro tablet is nothing more than an ultrabook with a removable touch screen. The Surface Pro has a cooling fan and is supposed to get four hours to a charge. All for $1K with the optional keyboard. I don't try to use my tablet as a laptop replacement. But if I'm going on a short trip and just need to be connected faux-Office works OK and I still have a great consumption device. Who knows what the future holds as the tech advances but for now you pick the tool that does 60% of what you want it to do well and just accept its failings in the other 40%.
[Nexus 10 General] 404 ERROR:
Or you could wait 6 months or so for Haswell which should be able to bump that battery life up to 7 hours or so. I'm putting my money on Haswell to make a great productivity W8 Pro tablet.
[Nexus 10 General] BarryH_GEG:
Personally, I'm just going to wait for the nuclear-powered SoC that's implantable in your brain that receives input neurally and whose GPU uses the back of your retina as a makeshift overhead projector. Google Glass is so 21st century. Seriously, mobile can only go so far. I review PDFs that can be over 100 pages and spreadsheets that are 6GB. I can get away with it on a 17" laptop but would still prefer a 24" desktop monitor. Or dual 22" monitors. I don't care how fast a 10" tablet is or what OS it's running other considerations inhibit its usefulness. But as a brainstorming tool or consumption device I'd take my Note over a laptop any day.