yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HD2 General] ali4110m:
Nice work Cotulla,our precious device is a legend thanks to you and DFT.

VIVA Cotulla and HD2
[HD2 General] tfouto:
well there are class 10 5~10MB/S. It's not hyper fast, but hey not that slow...

UEFI MAGLDR is really amazing. Wow...

Any chance of Windows 8 RT on HD2? :D I am kidding
[HD2 General] Nigeldg:
Nah, counter-intuitively it's actually class 2 cards you want for running an OS from the SD card. Class 10 performs the worst in this case.
[HD2 General] aaaaa0:
Dude, there are going to be a mountain of problems getting the thing actually to work completely and reliably on WP8.

There is a huge difference between getting it to sort of boot and sort of work (easy), and making it something actually usable (very very hard).

UEFI loader might be done, but ACPI is going to be screwed, power management screwed, WiFi screwed, Bluetooth screwed, phone modem screwed, graphics not/partially GPU accelerated, audio hw codecs, video hw codecs... list is gonna go on and on.

There is gonna be a mountain of work ahead if u want to make such a ROM actually self-hostable, good luck with that. :)
[HD2 General] tfouto:
I am sorry but i dont bite that. It a too generic statementto be made. I guess it depends from card to card.
[HD2 General] Cotulla:
The most important thing for SD is speed on the small blocks like 512 bytes and 4096 bytes.

For example one noname card 4Gb gives me 2.5mb/sec and Sandisk 16Gb gives me only 1.2mb/sec for 512 blocks.

For Windows RT it can be insufficient RAM, but it's possible to try ;)
[HD2 General] tfouto:
Doesn't Windows use Pagefile?
[HD2 General] GodlikePL:
Im glad HTC Mozart has 576 instead of Leo 448, small difference but always better :)

Regards
[HD2 General] Fears:
I'm seriously proud for owning this phone !
[HD2 General] Thanksbra:
Amazing....HTC Leo does never die!
[HD2 General] nikola360:
HD2 has 576MB too but Windows Mobile 6.5 (Original HTC ROM ) on EU version use only 448 MB and the CPU use only 768Mhz insted 1Ghz (998Mhz real) but if you use custom rom you can use all power
[HD2 General] retsam88:
I just can't describe how awesome Cotulla is.

It doesn't matter if it will run well in future or not, it's just a unbelieveable proof-of-concept that it's actually possible to run w8.

HD2 is a LEGEND
[HD2 General] Nigeldg:
Whether or not you believe me isn't the question, just search and you will find a thread with a bunch of benchmarks showing that this is indeed the case :) I guess you'll believe cotulla though :P
[HD2 General] GodlikePL:
BTW, is HTC 1st gen bootloader hacked enough for WP8 rom or we'll have to wait for UEFI MAGLDR port from HD2?
[HD2 General] tfouto:
Do you have the link to that thread?

Thanks
[HD2 General] tejeskifly:
Hmm, i think wp8 see only 483mb ram.

Wp7 see all of the ram?
[HD2 General] Nigeldg:
The post can be found here:

That post basically sums things up. If you want to access music and videos (both read and write) then a higher class is undoubtedly better, but if you're using it to run an OS then lower classed cards are usually better.

I don't know about WP7, but Android sees around 403-411MB of RAM so 483 seems to be quite good.
[HD2 General] Cotulla:
It is. But it's not possible to get good performance with it.

LEO is also 576.

It's near 512 - 24 = 488 Mb

Actually after removing RAM for other subsystems remains 515Mb from 576Mb.

But some hardware need a fixed buffers.
[HD2 General] Marvlesz:
I don't understand. If higher class will result in poor performance if you're running an OS. Why did securecrt say that you need a high class for running Android using NativeSD? And why do we even have NativeSD?
[HD2 General] Proz00:
windows standard 8 is much smaller :)

and no hardware lock like windows RT

edit oh its not arm :9

windows rt could be lited manually tho
[HD2 General] stealth21:
I believe you are wrong!

The real legend is @Cotulla

He is the one, who made all of those happening come true..

I just want thank you thank you thank you :good::good::good:

NOTE: No matter what happens in the future, You are the one who made us extend our phone usage and you are the main reason we all were introduces to android and WP7.. If its not worth the time developing the software its would be totally understandable!

A man Vs. Microsoft..

Cotulla 5 - Microsoft 0 :laugh::laugh:
[HD2 General] jskenderi:
True, but don't forget bepe too. Great team! Thanks very much to both of you!

Gesendet von meinem NexusHD2
[HD2 General] antonizoon:
For SDCard speeds, you can't just depend on some person's experiences and assertions, especially when SDCards vary so much from size to size and brand to brand. There are too many variables to single out classes as the issue.

Each card is unique, and instead of depending on some trend, we should judge each card by performance only.

http://www.heise.de/download/h2testw.html (it's in German, use Google Translate)

You can use this program (or some other reliable test) to test SDCard write speeds for small, medium, and large files. The better the performance with small files, the better your OS will run.

It's also useful for discovering fake SD cards. The majority of SanDisk cards on the internet are fakes; with the test, at least you can see if your card is bad.
[HD2 General] harshadura:
wow! sound amazing, curiously waiting :eek:
[HD2 General] hootan_13:
idea!

internal storage in hd7 is sd card but speed of that is vey go0d!!! u can use it..!!! ;)
[HD2 General] Tachi91:
The thing that some people haven't noticed or understood is; On 1st gen devices the OS was loaded on NAND, but used the sdcard as an extension for everything else that wasn't a core application. If you were to boot up a WP7 device without an sdcard it will still function just not save anything or not install apps.

Now with WP8 on the HD2 from what cotulla has stated (and from what I understand) is that NAND is not being used at all. The OS is running off the sdcard just like android ran of sdcard in the past.

In a situation in which WP8 was functioning 100% there would be lag compared to it running off NAND since everything is being read/written to the same medium. It might be a few hiccups here and there again just like sdcard version of android. Which showed the lower sdcard classes performed better than higher ones.

For those wondering about wp8 on current wp7 devices. Can it run on them; YES. You'll just need developers willing to port it over, but also if the UEFI magldr is the reason it's booting up on the HD2 then you would need a similar one for your device not yet considering the barrier of proper drivers.
[HD2 General] GodlikePL:
Hi

@Tachi

As far as i know

HTC Mozart:

Vendor: HTC

CPU: Qualcomm QSD8250 Snapdragon 1GHZ

GPU: Adreno 200

RAM: 576

Resolution: 480 x 800 pixel

Card slot:	microSD (hidden)

HTC HD2:

Vendor: HTC

CPU: Qualcomm QSD8250 Snapdragon 1GHZ

GPU: Adreno 200

RAM: 576

Resolution: 480 x 800 pixel

Card slot:	microSD

So there are no big differences between these phones, just camera, display technology (SuperLCD) and maybe other things that i dont know. WP8 drivers for HD2 that'll be made should work on HTC Mozart. One big problem in porting WP8 from HD2(if will be usable) is HSPL. I assume that no MAGLDR for HTC 1st gen was made because hacked HSPL was enough to install custom roms but i also assume it wont be for WP8, so MAGLDR needs to be ported from HD2.

Regards
[HD2 General] Cotulla:
Yes it is. NAND memory is not used at all.

Anyway like I said before a current speed is not enough, I am trying to improve it maybe it's possible.

if that attempts fail it will be useless to continue develop it :(
[HD2 General] Nixeus:
Cotulla, just a question...

What is your real Job ?

Where are you found all this knowledge in hardware hacking ?

I'm really interrested :)
[HD2 General] siealex:
Cotulla, keep it up! VGA on P750, WM6 on S110, now WP8 on Leo... what will be the next? Key Lime Pie on G1? Or Ubuntu on ATmega?
[HD2 General] Blame73:
So, for what I understood, this might be the reason why all previous devices - including the Lumia 900 - won't get the WP8 upgrade. It just can't be done...
[HD2 General] 0719andy:
A new picture from Cotulla's twitter:
[HD2 General] GodlikePL:
There's SD Slot in HTC Mozart, same as in HTC HD7 and HTC Trophy. There's no in lumia but that's not my problem because i have mozart ;P
[HD2 General] Tachi91:
In the HD2 case it can't be done (so far). Again it could just be a matter of the OS not seeing the nand because of it running a chipset it does not support (drivers etc). Each device if one were to research the possibility of a Wp8 port would have their own share of hardware/software problems. Maybe Microsoft didn't give WP8 previous qualcomm chipset support.

For now if ever the HTC HD2 is the only known device to boot WP8. Not including current gen hardware.

Maybe somewhere some guy/girl is in their basement booting up WP8 on their Lumia or Titan and will keep it their little secret.
[HD2 General] HtcMeo:
IMO Leo has more than enough hardware to run WP8.

No one wants this happens cause phone dealers need to keep selling their new products.
[HD2 General] Cotulla:
Yes, it can be. All that NT is much more heavy.

Actually I am looking only to LEO port - not enough resources for anothers.

LEO has very well known environment for me as well tons of developed stuffs, it's a reson why it's possible.

In case of another device it's clear start from zero. Too much work. Sorry :(
[HD2 General] GodlikePL:
@Cotulla

I understand your point of view. You are just one person, not superman but close to it but what about DFT? Will they support the project?

Regards
[HD2 General] explisiv:
so assume the newer second gen wp like my htc titan my be able to run it because there isnt hidden sd cards it is more of a internal storage. not sure if it is nand memory though. also has a faster processor so think the compatiblity would be greater right? also i read that in some countries the encrytion software would be disabled in some countries so can we use the system images from those to create a stock security less rom?

just ideas i guess.
[HD2 General] yoshiki2:
How different is the hd2 from the hd7s. Sorry if it's a stupid question, but I've dedicated myself to android this past years... and I can get a hd7 from my brother..
[HD2 General] Cotulla:
They are already supporting me :) Without them all that could not be done at all :)

With enough efforts and knowledge it can run on

but extremely slow and unusable :D
[HD2 General] socolrus:
Cotulla how did you do this theme?
[HD2 General] pepe_palotes:
And what for wm6.5 nostalgics? I still keep a copy of all my apps and stuff from the old times.

To be honest, what I really miss is the cockie's home tab. I moved to android in early 2011 and later to wph7 and I could not enjoy too much time of the BEST EVER application for a smartphone. No android launcher is half good as CHT. But the android fever was to addictive.

Any chance to run wm6.5 using the nativeSD method?
[HD2 General] Robbie P:
Neil Armstrong (RIP+quoted here earlier) went to the moon on the same amount of computing power as a calculator. Imagine if he had a HD2 and DFT behind him:angel::):)

"Per ardua ad astra" as the flyboys say;)
[HD2 General] retsam88:
Proxima Centauri would be our new "home" by now.

I check thread now, new pics from Cotulla, and something new to that.

Guys, you are amazing. We believe in you!
[HD2 General] Spl4tt:
"The HD2 refuses to die", "The eternal HD2" but this is just because cotulla and DFT.

you guys are so amazing, you made the HD2 what it is now, and you can't imagine how thankful I am for your work.

I used the HD2 for over 30 months, that wouldn't have been possible without you
[HD2 General] fortis et liber:
good news Cotulla....thanks...
[HD2 General] Cotulla:
it's just WP8 high contrast mode.

still planned but only 24 hours in day :( :D
[HD2 General] tejeskifly:
Bull****, if you hack it, its more than 24hrs :D
[HD2 General] rlydiard:
No, what Cotulla means is that each day only has 24 hours and it takes time to complete the coding.

I am still waiting anxiously for the new MAGDLR that will allow us to have 3-in-1 HD2. What a phone the HD2 will be when we have the ability to boot in WP7.8, Android, or Windows Mobile!
[HD2 General] samsamuel:
he knows, it was a 1337 hacker joke, , hack the day to give more hours... :)
[HD2 General] rlydiard:
Thanks, I had not had my first cup of coffee of the morning when I responded, but I think that would have gone over my head anyway. Maybe DFT should recruit more members since the hours in a day cannot be hacked!
[HD2 General] tejeskifly:
I know :)
[HD2 General] rlydiard:
Yes. samsamuel explained your joke for my edification............. it passed over me, sorry for that.
[HD2 General] jully3881:
i think if you report the hard work on the wp8 of hd2 on the xda, will lot of pepleo help u to sovle these problem.this is not just your work, this is all of user of hd2's work. good man good job
[HD2 General] GodlikePL:
Cotulla has biggest knowledge about hd2 and only very few poeple can help him if he dont know something so we should just dont disturb him and wait for release :)
[HD2 General] BMXJeff:
Don't be so modest...

I love this stage; The community and the dev continue to agree that it's merely proof of concept and more of a 'wacky experiment' and the reality of a usable port is uncertain. It's like a horror movie; we all know what's going to happen yet we try to tell ourselves "there's a possibility the character wont die..." and "maybe they won't back themselves into the room with no escape". How long before we all look back at this thread with an ivory pipe in one hand and a stable port of WP8 on the HD2 in the other and chuckle pretentiously?

Just makes me wonder... considering the 'make it just about last the warranty period' approach to design in terms of quality and future-proofing of this unfortunate blood thirsty corporate world, how did HTC come up with the HD2? Did they mean for this device to be so versatile or was it the greatest mistake ever made as far as the hack-addicted user community is concerned?

The HD2 truly is a symbol of 'technology lifespan anarchy'. I feel like I'm flippin' the bird at the corporate powers every time I boot Android/WP7/Ubuntu etc. It makes me smile a little inside. Is this what drives all of the hack/mod community to do what they tell us cannot be done or Is it just me?

I just wish I could help more with the code side of things. Every time I have a dabble I delve in too deep and become overwhelmed by my lack of understanding. My biggest trouble is knowing where to start! Hats off to guys like Cotulla and the Dark Forces Team :cowboy:<-- (imagine the hat lifted)
[HD2 General] link68759:
I looked around at benchmarks. I'll take it on Cotulla's word that random cards operate faster on specific chunk sizes, but the general statement that "lower class cards are better than higher class cards" is definitely NOT true for the majority of uses.
[HD2 General] Nigeldg:
And I never said that 'lower class cards are better than higher class cards', I said that they generally perform better if you want to run an OS from them. For usage on pretty much any other device where the SD card is going to be used for storage, higher is better.
[HD2 General] Cotulla:
Operating System is often using small block transfers - 512 and 4K. 4K is ARM page size.

It's why important to do fast transfers with that size. As well sometimes overall operations before and after tranfer can take more time than data transfer itself.

Usually high class cards provide better linear speed, but it's only used when user write big files, like movies or pictures.
[HD2 General] 0719andy:
So could you give us some advice on which band of sdcard shoud we use? While the speed of my sandisk 8g class6 is only 2m/s at 4k size.
[HD2 General] Cotulla:
I have only few cards, so I can't give any advises :(
[HD2 General] pocketAM:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A92Hxq4CcAAXSEd.png:large
[HD2 General] 0719andy:
Congratulations,Cotulla! :good:
[HD2 General] CerfVolant:
better and better !! direct from cotulla Tweeter ^^

​
[HD2 General] 0719andy:
Have seen that.It's unbelievable and cotulla shock the world.
[HD2 General] Win_XP:
Amazing development for an amazing device, thank you Cotulla :)
[HD2 General] stiggy1605:
I'm wondering what this means for Android phones and tablets? Would it be possible to use the same or similar methods to put RT on to other devices or is this only possible because of the HD2's background with Windows?
[HD2 General] Olao99:
How is this even possible?

No source...
[HD2 General] binhari:
sir how can a port be made without the source.......

Can a iso be booted...???
[HD2 General] Kangal:
I'm calling this an April Fools Joke in Development.

Seriously, I'd love to be proven wrong.

Hell, I'll go and buy a HD2 if this proves true.

There's lots of things I don't like about RT, and many more that I like about Android.

But when it boils down to it, I believe that RT is more powerful than Android... and given time, it might be a very competent rival.

Although an efficient yet faster x86 with Windows 8 (tablet) is more my cuppa.

edit

P.S. Don't tell me this is running through a virtual emulator like chroot... I wanna hear them say "HD2 runs Windows RT natively".
[HD2 General] r-G0n3:
it is native. the other way around is just *not* feasible(speed-wise)

from what I read, it seems that Cotulla created a uefi layer for WinRT to boot. WinRT relies on a UEFI firmware for booting and other things.

booting is just the beginning to porting. I think cotulla is now writing drivers. display works in a VESA like mode, there is some HW-Acc, etc.

btw, chroot is not a virtual emulator. chroot is used to create a sandbox so you can limit what a process can do.
[HD2 General] parker09:
Awesome news. I just put WP7.8 on my phone.
[HD2 General] Geeba:
Truly gutted my HD2 died :( - the screen stopped working and even a new screen wouldn't fix it.... but amazing work and dedication on the RT port!
[HD2 General] Armazia:
This actually means I will blow off all the dust of my lovely HD2!
[HD2 General] GodlikePL:
Windows RT will make hd2 super smartphone with possibilities of small laptop!

PORT IT TO HTC MOZART AFTER HD2. I LOVE YOU :good:
[HD2 General] Greywolf_Ghost:
I am fully impressed, slightly shocked, and semi ere....never mind :) I just wish my HD2 had not suffered heat damage ( it started under 6.5 playing games, so I added WP 7.5 and for 3 months it ran reboot free, until I tried a game)

Let me ask, and I know I am well ahead of the game here. I am going to guess this is much like the old days of game emulation.....this could never be posted for download....one would need to own an RT device, and they would have to use the copy of say a backup?

I ask because a thought hit me as I was looking at the pictures.....

Should this be released as a download ROM, what would stop the company in China that builds knock off Phones from bringing back their version of the HD2, with say a mod version?

That is something I would buy just as a weird thing to have LOL a 4.5" multi touch Win RT device .

Any way is this not something that could cause Microsoft t to react? I mean if it can blink to life on an HD2 , what would stop Cotulla and DFT form doing the same thing to a quad-core Android device? I'm just curious on this, and again I know I am way ahead of the game here.
[HD2 General] sinedoOo:
http://www.xda-developers.com/windows-mobile/htc-hd2-refuses-to-die-now-runs-windows-rt/

"And for those wondering why it is the HTC HD2 continues to live and breathe over 3 years after it’s release, it is because the device is completely wide open thanks to HTC’s old philosophy. They have since gone away from that, which would account for part of their meteoric slide in sales and relevance. When developers can do anything and everything they desire to a device, we get gems like this one. When they can’t, they stop recommending the manufacturer and people stop buying." - Jerdog
[HD2 General] EchoesOfOli:
Amazing work. I have a lot of questions of how is this possible, how did he even get a rom/iso of windows 8 rt..i dont seen it anywhere on the internet. But if its true im stoked about results.

Sadly the win rt is locked to its bones so im very sceptical about getting drivers to work on various devices.

Since the Surface RT is based on Tegra 3 chipset i would love to see the Win RT booted on my HTC One X.
[HD2 General] LumiaLover:
What if you try it on a more recent device, like a Lumia 800 or a HTC Titan II etc. that have more power and newer hardware? Would that help? Or what about WP8? Would that be as system heavy as WRT?
[HD2 General] -kOS-:
W O W.......O . o .......Simply......A M A Z I N G......
[HD2 General] retsam88:
WHAT THE HELL

It's just unbelieveable what Cotulla did with HD2

I wish for HD2 RT ROM!
[HD2 General] dj_crash1981:
new pics

New photos to update progress.......................
[HD2 General] cajunflavoredbob:
You're a bit late. Check post #82...
[HD2 General] kevinwalter:
But Cotulla, What about the HTC One X(+) then? It's Tegra based just as the original Windows RT tablet.

Nice work! Keep it up :)
[HD2 General] anx7501:
Incredible work!!! I have been wondering if RT on a phone was possible, thanks for answering that question.

I have a spare HD2 (both T8585 and T-mous) if you want any help testing I'll be happy to lend a hand.
[HD2 General] doc2mee:
Amazing isn't it

It is just amazing.

Keep up the good work.

Windows tries to keep slim and it is good for our hardware.

Bloatware like Vista is essentially a waste of resources.

Once all the drivers and radio r ready, I am all out for testing yay.
[HD2 General] timmymarsh:
Hey guys, All very exciting yes, but lets respect each other keep our posts on topic and happy, thanks.

thread cleaned.:cool:
[HD2 General] xredshark:
@cotulla if you search an Hd2 for test... XRedshark's Hd2 is ready :)

Tweet me @XRedShark

Inviato dal mio GT-I9300 con Tapatalk 2
[HD2 General] TonyCubed:
People are forgetting that Windows RT requires UEFI to even boot. If you noticed one or two of the screenshots you would see the UEFI MAGLDR which means that Cotulla/DFT have been able to emulate UEFI to get the image to even boot. So you would need a bootloader like MAGLDR to even do this and as I'm aware, most bootloaders these days are completely locked down now.

This is nothing like booting Ubuntu on your tablet or phone, this process is far more complicated simply because Microsoft designed Windows RT not to be booted from non-approved hardware.
[HD2 General] FranZeta:
Do you think that will be posible run Metro apps on Windows 8 RT for HD2? Resolution of HD2 is very poor and without metro app Windows 8 RT is less interesant
[HD2 General] Cotulla:
Yes, it's very large work. We (DFT) started that project long time ago.

Not sure. Hacks in the internet doesn't work. Display interpolation also bad in image quality as well in performance.
[HD2 General] meetph:
Hope the rom is coming soon for my HD2
[HD2 General] comdinet:
... I'm trying to get a new phone and every time I've decided on model and ready to buy, comes something like this for HD2...

I think it's a curse to own HD2... can't get rid of it, it's just too damn good...
[HD2 General] ATZ-007:
Q: Windoes 8 on Tablet

Just out of curiosity, can this be ported to tablets (i.e. Xoom, HP TouchPad, etc)?
[HD2 General] LumiaLover:
I'd say so, but it would depend on developer interest, bootloader, device etc.
[HD2 General] meingott:
That would be fine, because there is no ARM-based Full-HD tablet with Windows 8 on the market (I don't know why ...:confused: ).
[HD2 General] keller112:
Sadly metro apps have a res. req of 1024x600 for users and 1368x768 for developers, so unless that can somehow be circumvented, i dont see it happening.