yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 4 General] draugaz:
Those $200 don't sound realistic, they probably just "deducted" this from the difference in retail MSRP and and in google store. Which would suggest that Google "needs" to charge at least MSRP to break even. Which is very naive.

In reality such phone would have a wholesale price at about 300$ (16Gb), google probably gets even better prices. Of course, google has their own distribution expenses, but I think it is not much as they are superlean.

No wonder, not many people are so impatient to pay the premium.
[Nexus 4 General] spvnexus:
Its quite simple, Google would not have chosen LG to supply to new Nexus without a iron clad contract. They have to deliver or off to court they go!
[Nexus 4 General] myawan:
Little minds trusting on their imagination rather than actual economic facts.....yes it does happen my friend ;)
[Nexus 4 General] SIGUEL:
There's no way in hell that LG is selling to Google for $500-550 per phone, Google is either making 0 profit or just a tiny ($5-10) but surely is not selling this phone @ loss.

Google is just selling the phone @ the price that carriers buy them before reselling them.

SKYNET
[Nexus 4 General] zealtor:
this
[Nexus 4 General] :
I think this phone hardware would cost about 300 dollars to produce but i'm not accounting for R&D
[Nexus 4 General] SIGUEL:
All the R&D cost are included in the sale price of the phone to Google, remember they only do R&D, Design etc. once and split the cost of that in a thousand or million phones they sell.

Example: $2,000,000 (R&D,Design, Engineering) ÷1,000,000 phones = $2 per phone.

It could be a bit more/less but the total phone cost should be less than $300. Also the Nexus⁴ is just a re-skinned Optimus G, so the cost would be split even more.

SKYNET
[Nexus 4 General] muyoso:
People do realize that LG is under contract with Google to produce at least a certain number of phones right? This isn't something like LG can just decide to stop making them. Or do people really not realize this?
[Nexus 4 General] MattSkeet:
OK explain me how is it that nexus 4 is sold for £400 here in UK (carrier price) even after taxes and conversion it wouldn't be 600€. It's the carriers etc making prices like that not lg. Carriers have to make money. If a phone cost 600 and they offer it for free on a contract that is 40 (I'm guessing here) . After 2 years you pay 880. That's 280 net profit. Take away costs of network upkeep staff advertising, taxes etc how much you get? There is no way this phone costs 600€
[Nexus 4 General] Testraindrop:
LG is making $$$ with the N4 just like Samsung is making money with every sold iPhone, easy as.
[Nexus 4 General] Ace42:
Say No to drugs.
[Nexus 4 General] SIGUEL:
LG has a contract with Google for xxx amount of phones, LG is getting paid regardless of the price Google decides for the Nexus⁴. LG is making a profit for every handset sold to Google or Carriers (Optimus G).

Same case with the Nexus7, Asus reported profits from every tablet sold, but Google is either making $0 or maybe $1-5 for every tablet sold, as the 16GB subsidizes the 8GB model.

SKYNET
[Nexus 4 General] shadehh:
You're obviously missing my point. I never said it costs 600.

#1. No way in hell does that phone cost 600 euros. That's all clear here, we all know that.

#2. 400 pounds carrier price is nothing out of the ordinary, carriers in my opinion are one of the most selfish out there.

#3. Of course a carrier is going to sell it for higher, what makes it easier to even sell it higher is the fact that it seems like they are the only ones to offer it at the moment. I remember when i asked my carrier for the price of a certain high end phone a year or two ago. He said it costed 550 euros without contract. In stores it was being sold for 450 euros. Back then i was surprised.. but now.. i know they're decieving Aholes. After all, their goal is to lure you into contract as that's how they make money. They want a loyal customer financing their asses for multiple years. And this is the case with many, i've been with my provider for a few years now. This is the goal of a carrier.

Honestly, i don't even know what point you're trying to make. If you've read through any of previous posts in this thread, you would know I was replying to a post by a person who claimed: "The retail prices are not made by LG, they are made by the retailers." (So basically the stores want to sell them for high and LG does not give a damn for how much they go for - which i don't think is so)

To which i answered something along the lines:

Well, if it's really not LG setting the price of 500~600 euros for the Nexus 4, then please explain this to me:

Clearly, as seen in the quoted news above, the spanish phone house finds the price of 600 Euros for the nexus 4 unacceptable, thus they will not sell it.

This would have me come to the conclusion that it is not the retailers trying to sell this device for a very high price, it is LG.
[Nexus 4 General] SIGUEL:
LG prolly wants to established a standard price for everyone so they don't start undercutting each other, just to sell 1 more phone than the other store. That Spanish store quote proves that the Google Price is more or less the real price of the phone.

SKYNET
[Nexus 4 General] shadehh:
Even more of a reason to hate on lg. What Google is doing is setting a new fair standard for pricing of phones. I'm more than willing to pay 450 euros max for a high end phone. Ever since the introduction of iPhone, phones have gotten such a high price tag.
[Nexus 4 General] SIGUEL:
Yep, this all started with the OG Iphone, companies saw the massive profits and copied that model. Also the high phone prices forces people in to buying on contract from carriers, that's a Win/Win situation for Carriers and Manfcts. and a massive lo$$ for consumers.

I want this Nexus⁴ launch to be a smashing success sales wise, that would force the tied in to more in reality pricing for phones and the dead of Apple businesses practices that other companies have wrongly copied/adopted.

SKYNET
[Nexus 4 General] Turb0wned:
LG does not care. This doesn't affect LG. Some of you continue to forget that we buy Nexus phone but most of the world doesn't even know it exist. Those people will buy the $200 phone and sign the contract.
[Nexus 4 General] duraeas:
I don't believe LG is hampering phone production. While their margins on this phone are thin, it has a great deal of potential in terms of establishing their brand in many of the world's most important markets. I'm a person people near me go to when they're purchasing something like a phone - I imagine many of you are too - so LG is targeting a great target demographic by partnering with Google on this.

Nexus devices are a double edged sword for Google. They're directly competing with the very partners they rely upon to push Android forward in the market place.

The Nexus One, Nexus S and Galaxy Nexus were not sold at discount prices; except for the latter well into it's shelf life. The Nexus 7 is competing against a mutual enemy of Android manufacturers in the Kindle Fire.

The Nexus 10 is roughly $100 cheaper than you would expect it to be priced at (ie: iPad level) - that having been said, it's being sold with Google absorbing the marketing, sales and distribution costs as well as some of the engineering and all of the software. Samsung isn't making any less off one of those things than they are off their own tablets.

The Nexus 4 directly targets the Samsung/HTC flagships, budget handsets and everything in between. It's dangerous for Google to make it a wildly popular handset at the current retail prices. I don't think Google is trying to increase hype to boost sales. I wouldn't be surprised if supply has been intentionally restricted so as to use the Nexus 4 to drive down the price of other Android handsets prior to the holidays. It seems convenient Google has failed to sate demand and only plans to meet some of it immediately before Christmas, giving handset makers the opportunity to drop their prices and provide people guaranteed gifts.

It's also possible Google just underestimated demand. The Nexus One, S and Galaxy Nexus were not big sellers. I do agree there is no way they expected to meet it with what they had.
[Nexus 4 General] Azralag:
It is very unlikely that LG is losing any money manufacturing the Nexus 4. They are selling each device at regular retail price to carriers, like T Mobile. My guess would be that the quantity of devices that are going for $300 and $349 in the Play Store most likely derive from an agreement between Google and LG stemming from the agreements of LG having the "Nexus rights". That agreement may include Google getting a certain amount of phones at cost, at a discount, or although unlikely, even at retail price. Whatever Google does after that is Google's loss or small profit on each device sold through the Play Store.
[Nexus 4 General] User1110:
Even of the Nexus 4 had 1 gig of ram and a regular snapdragon s4 processor it would still sell more than LGs Optimus G. Not just for the price alone, but LG chose carriers where most customers will be completely set on an iPhone, and wouldn't even bother looking at their product.
[Nexus 4 General] miniAndroidian:
hahaha made my day dude :D

lol
[Nexus 4 General] Sport666:
That's why Motorola is the next in line to make N5. It will probably only get sold on G Play and they can control the handset from factory to customer. Well, it's only my speculation, but that would give sence.

GN
[Nexus 4 General] User1110:
A top of the line motorolla phone that's not exclusive to Verizon? It's hard to see that happening.
[Nexus 4 General] Richieboy67:
I thought HTC was close to being the next nexus..

sent via xda premium with nexus 7-Xbox live-loneleppard add me
[Nexus 4 General] SIGUEL:
Verizon has the rights to the “Droid” line of phones, but that was a contract between Moto and Verizon wayyy before Goog bought Moto, so they have to fulfill the complete contract before going away from Verizon.

We probably wont see a 100% Googlora phone in maybe 1 or 2 years.

Moto hast to bid like any other company for the privilege of manufacturing the next Nexus as said and quoted by Google/Nexus director in some recent interview I can't recall right now.

SKYNET
[Nexus 4 General] bobaka:
most people will still buy whatever is available subsidized at their favorite carrier

galaxy nexus didn't sell significant quantities. nexus 4 will probably sell more but still very little compared to gs3.

gs3's were free this weekend at tmobile for new subscribers and those kind of offers will be more frequent
[Nexus 4 General] ruffneckZeVo:
I was hoping for a htc nexus or maybe another sammy nexus just pissed i paid 700 for this sgn2 and then this n4 comes out at 350
[Nexus 4 General] kaj102:
Ding Ding Ding...Ive read every post in this thread so far and THIS post makes a whole lot of sense.. Google may have capped the amount of initial sales through the play store to push the demand of the product through the carier and other vendors.. when that demand goes down then we will see more availiable through the play store..(assuming google is still willing to take a hit on that many devices) what sucks is that everyone gaines EXCEPT for the customers (who have access to google play) in this case.

this is also probably why we did not see any pre orders..
[Nexus 4 General] @rbiter:
Well that is when you get a high end recover, at least couple of good towers and a couple of nice twelve inch subwoofers and find a nice head banging in the wall flick to watch all night.

Either your problem will be solved or you will have two lovely ladies knocking at your door wondering how they can get in on the head banging action.

...
[Nexus 4 General] Explore3:
I would guess that LG is probably making less per phone on the N4 than other phones. However, they are certainly not losing any money. The Xiaomi MI-Two with almost the exact configuration sell for $320 (16gb version) . Xiaomi may be subsidizing but probably has higher manufacturing costs.

The big winner is tmobile. They are picking up a lot of subscribers. In addition, many of the them may influence others to switch to prepaid at tmobile.
[Nexus 4 General] draugaz:
That don't make much sense for markets where carriers and other vendors don't sell Nexus like for example in Germany. It is either playstore or nothing. And yet, the supplies were as tight as everywhere else.

Preorders would have exactly the same problem: "sold out" in first 10 minutes which makes them totally pointless. Preorders don't magically increase the device availability.
[Nexus 4 General] Richieboy67:
If they did pre orders they would have known how many devices to have on hand. They could have just not set a ship until they had an idea of what they needed.

Also, I doubt there would have been so much of a rush just for preorders..

sent via xda premium with nexus 7
[Nexus 4 General] zim2dive:
They also could have had the decency to email the folks who signed up for "email me when its available".. they lost some cred points with me on that.
[Nexus 4 General] [hfm]:
My head hurts from reading this thread, I think I forgot to wear my tin foil hat.
[Nexus 4 General] Richieboy67:
Yeah, before the launch I had emailed a couple times to get a time frame and they said both times to just wait for the email. As long as I signed up for that I would be notified. Right.....

sent via xda premium with nexus 7
[Nexus 4 General] blackhand1001:
http://tech2.in.com/news/smartphones/lg-has-produced-400000-nexus-4-units-so-far/670522

LG definitely has screwed up this launch and google should have used another manufacturer (samsung with the exynos 5250 perhaps). That is barely any phones at all. I had no problem getting a galaxy nexus last year as Samsung actually produced them in decent numbers. Asus is selling over a million nexus 7's a month as well.
[Nexus 4 General] Wisefire:
I don't care what LG's reasoning is for not producing enough devices. To me, it the whole scheme of the Nexus Program. When you accept to enter the Nexus Program and develop a device, you do what is needed to provide the best possible experience, and get everyone who wants the device, the device. Simple as that.
[Nexus 4 General] blackhand1001:
Exactly, LG has dropped the ball big time. Google should have picked a more reliable manufacturer. LG produces a ton of phones, its clear that they purposely made very few of these.
[Nexus 4 General] bozzykid:
So what is Google's excuse for the Nexus 10, the Samsung Chromebook, etc? They all have issues with having them in stock. LG is hardly the only Nexus manufacturer with issues keeping devices in stock. At some point, the blame has to come back to Google for not able to manage the retail market.
[Nexus 4 General] Venekor:
LG are getting as much money as any other phone, this £500 price point is artificial, made by Networks so you sign up for their contracts instead of buying handset only. Also retailers need to make profit off of selling the phones so they sell it at the same price point. Then manufacturers sell at this price point too because they can and also because it would upset the retailers and networks selling their phones, which is what Google has done selling it for £280 off their store. Wouldn't surprise me at all if Google are giving retailers and networks priority to keep them happier than they would have been if you could get one on the Play Store.

Google can afford to sell it at what it costs them because they want to make profit off their store and have as many users as possible on Android and their flagship devices. Though it could come at the cost of their relationship with networks, retailers and other manufacturers.

Why are there shortages? Probably because they didn't plan that far in advance, the Nexus 4 was probably a last minute thing and not even knowing it didn't have OTG and it basically being the Optimus G... my guess it was.

---------- Post added at 10:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 PM ----------

Google aren't good at a lot of things, Stock Android is ****, I dunno why people hold it in high praise, TouchWiz has made it much better but people complained because it made it too much like the iPhone.... oh the irony of how the Nexus 4 turned out.

As soon as there is another open OS Android will die, seriously Java sucks...
[Nexus 4 General] draugaz:
Which would have like a 1 hour battery life while getting to 100deg celsius? :)

A15 is not ready for phones yet. It is even barely suitable for tablets, in Nexus 10 it is living under a big cooling plate.

I would be willing to bet, that Samsung was approached by google and simply declined. Because they have nothing to gain.

Galaxy nexus numbers are little known. And without carrier versions (which were planned and agreed on in advance) I doubt the numbers are all that impressive, wouldn't be very surprised if N4 sales already surpassed the (unsubsidized) GN.
[Nexus 4 General] @rbiter:
I agree. A15 probably needs some tweaking and more testing for phones. Seriously, I don't think we need 4 core a15 soc's in phones for any good reason yet, even for games, but too many nerds have little wee wee's and having more cores or more a15 i guess fills heads easily. Looking forward to t604 though. Probably an awesome GPU for a phone gamer.

And I think there are way many first world problems mentioned this thread. Too much blame being passed on to LG instead of your beloved Google. I think Google got caught with their pants down. Bad. Seeing the n7 flying off shelves and undercutting the n4 price they should known better. Even the n10 is very competively priced. Google just underestimated demand and being close to the holidays didn't help.

And this directed directly at who I quoted. My estimates and some other rough estimates out the galaxy nexus at around 2 million units. I forgot the number but I believe Samsung was quoted on dollar sales numbers. It is hard to guess because of Verizon, international release first and $400/$350 sales point 5 months later the numbers would clearly be around 1.5 million to 2 million. I was disappointed because my guess until the dollar amount was released was 4-5 million. Funny I know. But I could see 2 million. I've seen a lot of galaxy nexii lately. Don't know if spring, Verizon or unlocked version but it definitely put a small dot on the map.

Sent from my GT-N7100
[Nexus 4 General] xchasa:
This situation was expected.

Even before release of n4 people who ordered n7 were warning us of Google's incompetence with sales.
[Nexus 4 General] estallings15:
This. Stop pointing the finger at LG. Google probably makes small orders and has them shipped as cheaply, and by extension as slowly, as possible. If LG were to just manufacture an extra 100K to have on hand, what happens if they need to do an emergency hardware revision? Then they'd have a bunch of wasted money sitting there. Google seems to be able to dictate who gets the phones and how many they get. The buck stops with them.
[Nexus 4 General] draugaz:
Hardly. According to the Samsung themselves:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/20/3256590/samsung-galaxy-nexus-minuscule-sales-apple

That guy is not supposed to lie to the court.

Which would sum up to significantly less than a million devices in 6 months. Probably like 700k or little more than 100k/month. With majority of that selling through carriers subsidized and with advertising in mass media.

Now cut out the carriers, advertising and you will probably land at something laughable. Which I think el googl took as an initial estimation for their next nexus generation.

As to the nexus7, it is a very different market, not really comparable.

---------- Post added at 12:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 AM ----------

Not really, people are getting their devices within one or two weeks after they were manufactured. The whole route from factories in korea through the customs, local distribution and repackaging and delivery to the final adress. Hardly "as slowy as possible".

Google has nothing to gain from delays.
[Nexus 4 General] estallings15:
They come from stock sitting in warehouses. The large gaps between available stock account for shipping and customs...
[Nexus 4 General] draugaz:
No. According to the LG databases people get their devices after 1 or 2 weeks after they were produced. Some people report deliveries within 6 days which is "quick as hell" in my book.
[Nexus 4 General] estallings15:
Source?
[Nexus 4 General] blackhand1001:
The nexus 10 has the power a gigantic screen with a ridiculous resolution. Considering its battery is much smaller than the ipad 4's and it gets similar battery performance its not as power inefficient as you think. They could also clock it lower say at 1.5 or 1.4 ghz.

---------- Post added at 07:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:02 PM ----------

I had no problem going to staples and buying a nexus 10 right in the store. Those are much more available than the nexus 4.
[Nexus 4 General] draugaz:
Compared to the other tablet. But not to the phone. Exynos 5250 in Nexus10 can alone consume in excess of 3W which would set your phone on fire :)

Of course, you could downclock it to more civilized levels, but then the performace wouldn't be interesting anymore...

---------- Post added at 02:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:39 AM ----------

read this through:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2055351
[Nexus 4 General] Wisefire:
My statement towards LG was more so based on the lack of devices as a whole. The Nexus 10 can be purchased elsewhere, as well as the Samsung Chromebook. I have seen both in stock in local stores. (Though the Chromebook had several people in line waiting.) Needless to say, it was also the Holiday Season, the "raid" of the Google Play store could have been because every nerd around wanted one of the wonderful devices Google presented.

None the less, the Chromebook is running Chrome OS; I feel as if the reason that they may be manufactured less, is because the Chrome OS has shown little promise. I know it's on Amazon's top sellers list, but still, I am rather positive it's the price tag.. Not some cult of loyal Chrome OS followers.

Now, of course everyone says Google botched the launch big time, but they are really new to this selling devices game. Yes they sold the HTC Dream, and the Nexus One.. but that was back in the early days. Times have changed. Drastically. Our little green guy is plastered all over the place. The mere premise that Google would be selling a top notch Android phone, unlocked, for a measly 299 USD.. Well, that's enough to get the penny pinchers and tight wads drooling. Now, just realize they launched this, as well as the Nexus 10 all on the same day. Oh, and they decided to add more Samsung Chromebook stock, plus a 3G Nexus 7. Based on that, I'm not surprised the launch was a failure. If that isn't a recipe for disaster, I don't know what is.
[Nexus 4 General] ross1998:
y will be cool if instead of nexus 5, it would be HTC NEXUS TWO
[Nexus 4 General] blackhand1001:
Even under clocked the performance is better than pretty much every other chip. Especially for any dual core.
[Nexus 4 General] draugaz:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6536/arm-vs-x86-the-real-showdown/8

Not that obvious, at least not yet.

Somehow gets me that P4 dejavu feeling....
[Nexus 4 General] Jayrod1980:
3w for the exynos? Where do you get that number? Where does it say that for the nexus 10. BTW my n10 can easily do 10, almost 11 hours screen time. The 5250 is a great processor. Easy odds that it will be in the galaxy s 4 in some way.

Sent from my often RMA'd Nexus 4
[Nexus 4 General] iPwn_:
Hell the TDP is closer to 8W. Samsung throttles the SoC when the CPU and GPU are simultaneously taxed to keep it from going over 4W (which it often reaches under load).

Source: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6536/arm-vs-x86-the-real-showdown/13

Krait on the other hand rarely even goes above 1.5W, while giving only slightly lower DMIPS/MHz.

The A6X also has a very high TDP, but that's mainly from its monstrous GPU.
[Nexus 4 General] blackhand1001:
I wasn't comparing it to x86 chips lol. Of course those are gonna rape any arm chip.