yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] MattSkeet:
you keep forgetting. to change anything in terms of kernel (OC/UC/UV etc) you need AOSP binaries - correct me if im wrong, biggest problem here is that qualcomm is very dev unfriendly due to the fact its practically completely locked SOC. I think ive mentioned it few months before we even knew that its going to be LG/Qualcomm hardware, this goes to Exynos as well
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] klin1344:
Actually, a binary is a machine-executable file that is the product of compiling some sort of code. For example, the kernel is a binary. But we have the kernel source from Google as it is GPL licensed and they must release it.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wurzelsepp3:
We have the Kernel Source which is enough!

just look around in de device forums practically every device has UV/OC kernels

including the S4 powered Galaxy S3 variants or HTC ONE S

---------- Post added at 02:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:49 AM ----------

I don't know what you are trying to say?

The Droid DNA may score better in benchmarks but the performance (according to reviews) is worse compared to the Nexus 4.

It seems like Cortex-A15 is ready for phones yet, even with a much bigger surface to dissipate heat the Nexus 10 is getting pretty hot,

the Exynos 5250 in a phone would lead to even worse thermal problems.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] PoXFreak:
I still say its somewhere behind the firmware, not in the kernel. If its taking cues from battery temps, why is it interpreting those readings which, IMO, has nothing to do with CPU/GPU besides being a secondary correlated reading of a power source?

In my days of thermal dynamics, I learned very quickly that there is a time/temperature coefficient involved in every material, and I highly doubt that the PTC used in the battery case, attached to the side of a Li-ion battery and shielded from the CPU/GPU by at least 2 layers of plastic would be utilized to govern throttling on said CPU/GPU.

I've done enough Willamette/Barton/T-bred/etc. over clocking and thermal management to know that you can not control or even read temps through any distance without a margin of error equivalent to the distance and the thermal coefficient of the material used.

That's my little science lesson for tonight... New lesson sometime tomorrow.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Carter07:
Hi PoXFreak, I don't think battery temp readings are used to estimate cpu/gpu temperature because there are therm sensors placed on the cpus and the gpu so they can measure them directly, from the config I see that readings of cpu/gpu temperature are used only to evaluate if the device has to shut down (at 120 degrees).

If the battery temperature goes above 37 degrees the system limits cpu/gpu clock, max brightness etc because:

1) they transfer heat to the battery because they are packed very close, so limiting heat generated by soc you also limit heat to the battery

2) underclocking soc limits power output of the battery so less heat will be generated by the latter.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jb91:
So do you think its possible to make the phone output benchmark results that should be expected by its hardware, by just increasing the threshold? or would it just o.v.e.r.h.e.a.t.?

Why the f*** can't i post messages here with the word "o.v.e.r.h.e.a.t"??
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] szymon247:
Dual core Exynos A15 will reach its thermal threshold at about the same time a quad S4 would, perhaps even slightly faster.

The Nexus 4 will have its place in history - it serves as an example for a need to use more advanced passive cooling solutions in mobile devices because the SoCs are reaching their thermal barriers and since a manufacturing process upgrade is not going to happen anytime soon and it wouldn't be the best thing for chip manufactuters to stop the performance growth I bet the first A15 phones will have new passive cooling solutions.

There's virtually no cooling whatsoever of modern mobile chips and the quad S4 is unable to dissipate heat quickly enough without heatpipes or good design with extra space.

Raising the "Throttle down" temperature threshold via software if possible would just prolong the time needed for the throttling to kick in and would have detrimenal effect on other compontents (for example the display, which is vurnelable in this case - it sits right above the chip and SoCs heat can cause permanent damage).

Of course the fact that throttling is there is not a problem, heat dissipation is.

The only possible solution (without changing the hardware design) I can see is lowering the CPU voltage a little bit, if possible combined with playing with the threshold a little bit (though seeing reports of burned screens I doubt this is possible).
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] richteralan:
Keep in mind it is fall/winter now so the thermal throttling will get worse when it's summer.

Or we can get our Australians chime in about their experience!
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jb91:
But then i don't understand how other phones do it. Or would, say, an iphone 5, also throttle after a long period of benchmarking in a row, and we just don't notice it, because we never use the full power for that amount of time? Because if by increasing the threshold on the Nexus 4, you could significantly increase the time under full tension, until it has to throttle, that would be already of a lot of use, in my opinion. For example, if you could make it run at full power for 30 minutes.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] szymon247:
I believe the CPU releases less heat and/or phone internal design is better on the Iphone 5.

4 Snapdragon Krait cores even at 22nm emit significantly more heat than an average quad A9 (even with older 40nm design only some Tegra 3 devices had minor overheating issues) - Krait is the fastest mobile core design to date but also the hottest one (not couting the Cortex A15, which won't make its way into smartphones anytime soon in form of a quad core CPU).

What this means is that while the idle temperature might be low, it raises at a much faster pace under load.

If you raise the threshold on the Nexus 4 it will cause higher peak temperatures that could damage other compontents. Perhaps it is possible to raise it by a few degrees but it looks like the throttling kicks in pretty fast which means the temperature raises at a very rapid pace so we wouldn't get that much extra time. Also judging by the fact that there are cases of burned displays already raising the threshold wouldn't be a safe idea.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Carter07:
in same benchmarks it can be the cause of poor results, especially Glbenchmark wich stresses cpu,gpu and lcd (put at max brightness by the program), also in cpu benchs that lasts longer it may be a factor.

However I think there must be something else in short cpu benchs because battery hasn't the time to overheat.

It may be due to poor kernel optimizations, we'll know more when other smartphones will be updated to 4.2.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jb91:
What i just don't understand is, why does Apple's A6 apparently produce much less heat, whilst also producing much higher benchmark numbers (or at least equal numbers), compared to the fastest Quadcore Krait CPUs? What's the reason behind this?

Also, i don't get why the LG Optimus G doesn't seem to have any of these problems, even though it's supposedly pretty much the same as the N4. How can this be?

I'm also wondering, just how long does the full power on the N4 lasts, before it starts to throttle? When it's idle, or after doing some small tasks, like browsing, and then opening up a heavy benchmark or a game, how long das it take until the performance drops? And will it also drop during "normal, but kind of intensive" use, such as watching or even streaming full hd video, or making videos, and so on?
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Carter07:
Optimus G has exactly the same dimensions and hw (including .LTE but disabled) and as I said its threshold for the battery temp is 6 degrees higher than nexus 4, so probably raising it at the same level should not harm.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jb91:
Then we should definitely give this a try.

Also, doesn't the Galaxy Nexus have Android 4.2 as well? If yes, did the performance drop in any way similar to the problems with the N4 on the Galaxy Nexus too?
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Carter07:
I don't know, we should ask someone who did benchmarks before and after upgrade.

Can someone with an high-end dualcore or quadcore phone (galaxy s2,s3, galaxy nexus etc) run a full Glbenchmark suite and measure battery temperature at the end of tests?

It would be interesting to know if nexus 4 does generate more heat than others.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] szymon247:
A6 is a custom design that is clocked lower and is dual core that can be comparable to dual core S4, not quad. It means the S4 in the N4 about doubles the heat.

It's slower than the ARM Cortex A9 in SGS3 and MUCH slower than the S4 in the Nexus 4. Look here:

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...er-than-the-galaxy-s3-faster-than-the-nexus-7

Its CPU score is significantly lower than Samsung's Exynos based on A9 Cortex. The memory performance is higher and the GPU is significantly faster (thus higher 3D graphics rendering scores).

If it comes to the Optimus G, apparently it doesn't throttle as much and produce errors instead, crashing on benchmarks according to a review I remember being brought up here.

I'm not sure how much time does it take for the CPU inside of the N4 to start throttling. Definitely happens during 1 full benchmark from cold start, so less than a few minutes. Someone would have to test it further so we could get a definite answer. I also remember reading that it sometimes slows down in games which means throttling is present not only in benchmarks and might need less than 100% load for it to occur.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] danfalcas:
But i dont quiet understand what is happening, is the phone restarting because of the heat?

Or cant the N4 be used for xtreme gaming (like for playing NFS Most Wanted)?

I don't know if this is the deal i should better get an HTC One X+ and wait for CM10
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] szymon247:
Well, it's not restarting - the CPU gets throttled down to about 1,1ghz per core (hopefully all 4 cores are running) which means it's not as fast as it would normally be but even then it might be just about as fast as the HTC One X+ running at full speed because quad S4 is a beast of a CPU.

An average user shouldn't worry too much. Most apps require peak load for really short amounts of time and race to idle, so most things are going to run super fast, faster than on any other phone currently on the market.

The problem only occurs when an app initiates constant high load for prolonged periods of time. If it comes to xtreme gaming it's too hard to tell yet but definitely some (most 3D) games are capable of initiating throttling. Most games are going to be smooth and neat if it comes to the CPU running at 1,1ghz but I wonder if the GPU throttles as well and if it's noticeable. Also it might be a huge deal in the future, with more demanding games.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Devhux:
Probably not. The Nexus 10 has a much higher resolution then the Nexus 4, so that chart you quoted is a bit misleading. You'd need to look at the GLbenchmark offscreen tests for a more accurate comparison between the two devices
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] yahyoh:
wow :eek::eek:
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] PoXFreak:
The point I was trying to make was that, in the previous statement, someone said battery temperature has a direct correlation to CPU/GPU throttling, which doesn't make sense since the CPU temp could skyrocket way above 60°c before the battery temp could go high enough to incite throttling. That's like putting a fan on a PC's CPU and have its speed control adjusted by a sensor on the outside of the power supply.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Judge584:
I think it has a direct correlation , but just think the opposite way : they do not monitor battery temperature to control CPU/GPU temperature by applying throttling on them... What they are doing is applying throttling on CPU/GPU to control battery temperature.

This way battery lifetime will be better.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Peter1856:
This is quite interesting... So you are basicly on the limit during the summer when you have 30°C+ (some days maybe 35°C even in europe)...Anybody know what the idle battery temp at room temperature is? Should be 2°C or 3°C degrees more I guess...

If anyone would be willing to change the limits to the Optimus G values then we would know for sure if it is indeed the battery temperature which is the reason for it (I can't, couldn't get a order in last week, thanks Google ;)).

BTW is the battery in the N4 the exact same as the one in the Optimus G?
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] steslatt:
It seems that on some benchmarks it does well and others it slightly falls behind. Here are some tests I did on mine. At normal room temperature.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] federico.93:
Hello everyone, I'm Italian. A person (Owner of telefonino.net) in a video on youtube said the smartphone, if used a lot, is very hot. The smartphone of the video was a final version for my country provided direct from LG. I believe that in the final versions the problem has been resolved. I hope I have been of help to you. Bye Bye
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] glycolysis:
Throttling on the battery temperature makes perfect sense. It's to keep the phone's body cool, not the SoC. Because glass conducts heat much better than plastic, it is much more uncomfortable to hold at high temperatures.

On the other hand, better thermal conduction means it should be possible to raise the throttling thresholds, perhaps even higher than what the Optimus G uses. Given that the "ambient" temperature is determined by the temperature of human flesh in the mid-30s degrees Celsius, a small increase in the threshold will greatly increase thermal dissipation. Hopefully with this change, we'll see the Adreno 320 running at 325-400MHz most of the time instead of 200MHz as it does now.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] STIawdFTW:
Had my GNEX at 1.8 ghz and it definitely went above 60 degrees C during benchmarks. Didn't hurt the phone at all. Stock 1.2 ghz didn't go above 50 degrees C.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] kaliblazin707:
See this is what I mean. Dont like the throttle? Change it. My Gnex was set to 80°c and I lowered it to 70 and undervolted the crap out of it. Wh? I use my phone 24/7 running intense apps. I don't want it to burn out before January when I get my N4. Which will be set to 70 as well. Or higher if the design really is causing some heat distribution issues. This is xda for chrishts sake. Stop pissing like apple fanboys and look it up. Thermal Throttle controll is nothing hacking can't remedy. But poor design.... let's hope that's not the issue

---------- Post added at 03:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------

Another glimmer of intelligence in this thread.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] BravoMotorola:
That kind of makes since but isn't glass an insulator? Or is gorilla glass different the normal glass and have more conductive properties?

Edit: Ahh, I got you. More conductive then plastic. Missed that part.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] rbrucemtl:
I don't have the phone yet but I've already compiled a custom ROM with the changes. The big question is will the screen discolor with the higher temperatures as many others seem to report this happening at only 60C... imagine at 80C

Was the low threshold done purposely to cover up this yellow spot issue?
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] kaliblazin707:
I really hope not. Imma check out Adams teardown vid n see where the chip is physically located. It would make sense as to why they gimped the TTC. I will cry if this is the case because i had total faith in the nexus line..
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drawde40599:
Thermal throttling is VERY present its a pain in the ass !!! I've had 15 android phones all higher end ones and I've never seen the thermal throttling kick in so much even with light use it .... Can't wait till dev's work there kernels to " bypass" this crap .its very noticed
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] kaliblazin707:
I would love to use you as a Ginnie pig for my kernel. But if that scares you pm rbrucemtl the guy a few posts up. Maybe if you ask nice he will share what he has compiled.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jb91:
well that's definitely not what i wanted to hear. but what do you mean by "even with light use"? so you notice it not only in benchmarks but also when using the phone's standard applications? or only on games?
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Alex240188:
I think these thermal throttle limits are on the stupidly cautious side. coming from Tegra 3 devices

Nexus 7 - Throttles at 95C can understand been higher as its a tablet and has better heat dissipation

HTC One X - Throttles at 85C

I know the N4 uses a different SoC but are the differences really that much to warrent throttling 25-35 degrees lower than other devices
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] rbrucemtl:
I say it's because the yellow spots are controlled this way?
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Venekor:
I don't see why people care, this is a £230-280 phone that people are buying because it's either a bargain Pay as you Go phone or because their contract isn't up yet. Considering there is no reason to get the Nexus 4 if you bought a phone in the past year, it must be people whose contracts all run out next year or have more money than sense. So realistically you'll have this phone for next year until your contract ends and the obviously better Galaxy S4, iPhone 6, HTC One X2 and Note 3 come out.

The Nexus 4 is not a be all and end all device, the speakers suck, the mics don't perform well, video 1080p performance is bad, the CPU under performs, it only has 16GB, no Micro SD and no 4G. The screen isn't even good compared to the competition and just about any top end phone is better. The only reason people are buying the Nexus 4 is because it's cheap and better than something they bought 18 months ago before they have their upgrade or are Pay as You go people.

What software pushes this phone? Really the only thing you should be looking for is how to make the battery last longer and maybe 4G if your Network runs on Band 4.

I don't get the whining, the Nexus 5 will be out next year....... just get over it and use your phone.

---------- Post added at 11:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 PM ----------

They're hardware based, not software, just like pink spots in the camera are hardware....... software only tries to mask it.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] italia0101:
I ran antutu 3 times in a row ... Didn't go above 31 ... In terms of benches we seem to be 1000 points lower than the optimus g in ram..

Thats the biggest difference
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] nbell13:
FYI, my bone stock Galaxy Nexus would start to lag and stutter after playing Bard's Tale for awhile, and the back of the phone was rather warm. I think it's safe to say that it exists on that phone as well.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] rootuser11:
just to add my findings:

(1) the important thing about heat issue is that it must be the entire phone that gets hot, instead of just the upper portion (where heat starts to build up and cpu is located).

(2) once the heat is transferred to the bottom portion of the phone (takes a little bit longer) making the entire phone a hot rock, the screen starts to show yellow hues.

(3) the yellow tint seems to be focused on the bottom portion of the screen (at least on my two nexus 4 devices)

(4) and if you keep the phone stays hot, then more portion of the screen show yellow spots, dots, and what not.

(5) then cooling down the phone with a fan or 30 seconds of trip to a freezer brings back the screen to original state.

****.

this is particularly bothering for (1) OC seems to be difficult when screen shows anomaly this quickly (2) UV seems to be almost necessary and (3) Optimus G does not seem to suffer from this heat dissipation issue (in fact, I heard 6'C higher thermal throttling points) and a few of my friends have Optimus G and their phones don't get hot like our N4.

LG?
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Vatri91:
LG Optimus G have same problem

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=35346794#post35346794
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jb91:
So any news on this? Meanwhile, there should be quite a few people who own this phone. Has anyone ever tried to increase the throttling threshold?

Also, Qualcomm has stated a few weeks ago that they're looking into the throttling problems on the N4, but i personally haven't heard anything from them since. Did they follow up on that at all?
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xmatrix13:
Is there anything we can do about this throttling yet, when I play NFS for too long the game play gets really slow >.<'
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Ace42:
I don't have this issue after ditching stock kernel. I play NFS for half an hour and the phone was probably near room temp. I dropped the GPU and used only two cores b/c four seems like overkill for what I do. Anyway this is all done by faux kernel and we'll his app.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xmatrix13:
Hmmmm....you using faux's kernel eh? Does that have sweep2wake? Any ways I am using the latest MathKid's kernel (Matrix) and I noticed that after a while of playing need4speed things felt much slower....no chopping just slow.....
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Metsuna:
So has anybody heard anything about fixing this? Is it just something Nexus 4 users have to live with?
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ilcose:
Good question...also, is possible that with rev11 the thing is getting better?
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] vindikleuk:
I'm on rev11, and just managed to hit 54°C with my phone. So I guess it's nothing different. The only thing I'm worrying about is the faster-than-usual battery life decline that would come with high temperatures.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] nakedtime:
Thermal throttling is a GOOD thing

I don't understand why people don't think of this as a good thing.

with your CPU throttled at various temps, you can increase the the voltage of your max frequency slots as high as you want.

I like to think of thermal throttling as very similar to the way Goku's Kaioken works. In very short bursts, you can increase your power level (frequency) as high as you want. But when someone uses a scouter on you (benchmarks your phone) it shows a pitiful power level.

I hope there are some DBZ fans out there who can understand this and spread the good word :)
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] I Am Marino:
I like it!

-Sent from Marino's Nexus 7-