yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 4 General] bozzykid:
No, they claimed there are no issues with their N4 production. They never admitted to the N4 having supply issues. There's a difference. Although Google has publicly stated that their supply from LG was "scarce and erratic". So basically neither is taking any blame other than blaming the other.
[Nexus 4 General] jarjar124:
Um, excuse me. Apparently you read me wrong. I said I'm speechless because of how far these rumors have gone. Did I say I believed it? No.
[Nexus 4 General] threeclaws:
Since I never said or implied that there was only one way to write a contract it is you who seems to have a problem with assumptions and/or reading comprehension.

---------- Post added at 07:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:28 PM ----------

Welcome to the real world where most people >35 call every new smartphone an iphone and they have no idea what is rattling in their pocket they just know it didn't cost them anything.

What's pathetic is people who think everyone lives in a tech bubble.
[Nexus 4 General] Sigvaldr:
I'd be willing to bet both sides are at fault. I'm guessing Google underestimated demand and didn't order many devices from LG. In LG's case, the problems could be due to component shortages, competition from it own Optimus G (which uses many of the same components) or just a general inability to keep up.
[Nexus 4 General] ztmike:
http://phandroid.com/2013/01/14/lg-...oceeding-as-planned-nexus-5-rumors-unfounded/

Seems to me that LG is just sticking it to Google and is only making enough for the carriers where the N4 costs more than the Play Store ..makes sense since LG makes more profit that way.

Then you have LGs Optimus G that costs twice as much ..

Me thinks LG has taken Google for a ride..that their not enjoying to much.

I would bet that the next Nexus phone will come from Motorola due to this drama with LG and the rumors of Motorola working with Google on a Nexus X phone..
[Nexus 4 General] BarryH_GEG:
According to Nvidia Teg4 is due "mid-year" and will first appear in a "handheld gaming device." Since they've never been less than three months late with a SoC and they had a ton of trouble moving their PC GPU line to 28nm I can't imagine how any device will be able to launch in May with Teg4.
[Nexus 4 General] Edw00d:
Google is awesome at managing software, but hardware?

cough Q cough
[Nexus 4 General] Tomatoes8:
It honestly looks like a contractual issue, sort of like the NHL lock out. If LG is telling the truth and there is no supply issues, which I tend to believe because they have no problem mass producing retina displays for Apple, then Google simply isn't ordering enough. Google accountants and decision makers might have priced it too low and are now trying to convince LG and Samsung to eat some more profits for the Nexus 4 and Nexus 10. LG and Samsung probably already agreed to a contract where Google takes most of the loss and won't back down. Yet, Google is probably convinced that they can talk it down and renegotiate the contracts.

Pure speculation I know, but it is plausible. I mean 2560 x 1600, 2 GB of ram, and dual core A15 for $399? That is crazy and Google probably overshot it.

Or Google has some crappy employees.

---------- Post added at 08:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 PM ----------

I highly doubt it because Samsung has a kazillion plants but the Nexus 10 is scarce as well. It is definitely Google.
[Nexus 4 General] markjcc:
Google should have chosen someone else not like LG

LG, if HTC or Motorola was the manufacturer

We would all have nexus 4's by now and be happy and shutup.
[Nexus 4 General] imtiax:
Actually there have been no Nexus 4 Supply issues from LG's End.

Google just wont sell.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/LG-c...ply-issue-and-denies-new-Nexus-coming_id38711
[Nexus 4 General] bozzykid:
You are misinterpreting the entire article. Google is not holding on to supply and not selling it. LG and Google are blaming each other for the shortage. Clearly there is a shortage as the Play Store hasn't had them in stock more than a few hours over the last few months.
[Nexus 4 General] Sigvaldr:
This. I'm sure both Google and LG are at fault.
[Nexus 4 General] AvRS:
Can I please remind members that while you may not agree with others there is no reason to flame them and will direct you back to the forum rules and before you decide to post again please read the member conduct section (rule 2).

Thanks

AvRS
[Nexus 4 General] jordache16:
What a mess.

Regardless of what's true and what's not, I am predicting the N4 is going to have a pretty short life. What people need to realize is supply issues don't happen by accident. LG and/or Google are clearly limiting the supply of this phone intentionally and have been since it was released 2 months ago. This could be for several reasons but my guess is the price is too low and LG isn't making enough money per unit and are therefore limiting production. This phone is top notch when it comes to hardware but is being sold way cheaper than any other phone with similar specifications.

Who really knows though? A week from now the Google Play store may be back up with plenty of Nexus 4s in stock for people to buy and they never 'sell out' of them again and all of this rumored 'discontinued' talk will be a thing of the past. I wouldn't bet on this happening though as the supply issues are pretty alarming and may be a sign that the N4 is going to live a short life. All I know is that we will find out more as time goes on and if things are more or less the same a month from now we might as well put a fork in the N4.
[Nexus 4 General] bozzykid:
That isn't how manufacturing works. Google has a contract with LG. If LG was slowing production intentionally, they would face serious repercussions from Google. LG agreed to the terms when they signed the contract so the cost of the phone is not some surprise.
[Nexus 4 General] Tomatoes8:
LG can't just limit the supply when they feel like it. There are contracts involved. Unless Google agreed to a contract where LG can limit it when they see fit which would be stupid on Google's part.

Generally, in these types of manufacturing partnerships; the manufacturer, in this case LG, gets paid either way for producing the supply ordered stated in the contract. Google is the only one not making money off of the handset.

The most logical explanation and the one that I believe is true is that Google knows that there are tons of Android devices activated each day and they really do not need to be breaking even or losing money on the Nexus 4. Google probably simply is in no rush to order any stock from LG and for the stock that they do order, it makes more sense to sell them to carriers for a profit rather than breaking even or losing money(which goes to LG regardless) selling them on the Play Store.

What makes this even more likely is the fact that the Nexus 10 is not on the PlayStore in most countries. Samsung can make millions of Nexus 10 just like that with their manufacturing prowess but it has been out of stock in the PlayStore for almost as long as the Nexus 4. Yet apparently Staples and Walmart have them. What does that suggest? Google is simply not ordering them for the PlayStore and ordering for stores first to make a profit or their shipping and delivery staff are totally incompetent.
[Nexus 4 General] calyxim:
Google made a contract with lg for a production line capable of 20k or so units per week. LG official is right, LG is meeting the contract conditions.

If Google wants more units they can cough up the expenses and make lg build a bigger production line.
[Nexus 4 General] cvfl:
I'm just reading posts - you referred to 'X' and said it was a target number and could have already been achieved. I was pointing out that the contract very well may be written to either be a sliding number target, time bound (ie you must build us some amount of devices for said period of time) - we just don't know that, but I'm pretty sure it isn't a fixed 'X' number of devices. Isn't reading fun?

Yes, I'm over 40.

http://www.schooltube.com/video/21001073474c19344891/
[Nexus 4 General] jmejiaa:
This thread is funny, a bunch of people that know nothing about what's going on arguing about whats going on... :D
[Nexus 4 General] cvfl:
This has been quoted widely in multiple arenas, and also seems to be verified with the ESN checker - so I tend to believe it. So knowing all this, I'd point out it's extremely unlikely that production has halted because a build target has been reached (other than a per month target), and the product is "end of life" after such a short period in time. But maybe it's just me.

---------- Post added at 02:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:31 PM ----------

LMAO - touche dude, well played. You want to argue about what we don't know we don't know? :laugh:
[Nexus 4 General] BarryH_GEG:
I tend to agree with this. Google makes all their money in advertising and content sales; billions of dollars in fact. When you put the entire Nexus program from day one in perspective it's like pissing in the ocean. Selling a couple of million pieces of h/w is pretty irrelevant when Samsung just announced the Galaxy-series hit the 100MM mark. And whether people buy a Nexus, HTC, or Samsung device Google still makes the same amount of revenue off advertising and content.

Google built the $199 N7 and seems to be thoroughly behind it because no other OEM was willing to make such a pittance in margin off a low-cost device. The N7 program's been very successful in introducing people to Android tablets and supporting Google's goals of driving revenue in advertising and content sales. Android tablets in general were dying on the vine and Google’s intervention with the N7 stopped that. The N4's kind of bizarre because it’s being offered via Play where it’s likely to sell in lower volumes. An unlocked device at $299 makes more sense in regions where people tend to buy unlocked phones. Instead, their selling it through Play in markets where people can buy higher-spec'd phones for less money through a carrier subsidy program (EG: the U.S.) making it less attractive. Unless Google gets in to the wireless business (and they may) offering a couple of hundred thousand unlocked phones at cheap prices isn’t going to change the U.S.’ addiction to subsidized phones when VZW alone has 90MM post-paid customers. The N10's kind of strange too in that high-end Android tablets ($399+) don't sell well and it doesn't appear the N10 is doing that well either. The Note 10.1 is selling at 1MM a month (the same as the N7) and analysts don’t think Google’s even sold 1MM N10’s yet. So it appears the N7 is a real effort on Google’s part where the N4 and N10 are more casual attempts at testing the market.

If you think about the timing of the release of the N4 and N10 and the memory bump in the N7 being right before the holiday selling season the whole Nexus trifecta thing could have been a giant PR stunt to get people to think of Android vs. Apple vs. Surface when they were shopping for holiday electronics. At the end of the day whether any of the Nexi sell in small or large quantities it's an infinitesimal blip in Google's overall revenue. So whether they sell 400K or 4MM N4's does anyone think it really matters? And if LG’s not making a decent margin why would they care how many sell? They’ve gotten the same PR anyway which I’m sure was a motivating factor.
[Nexus 4 General] threeclaws:
You re-quoting me doesn't bolster your argument. Maybe you've forgotten what you said, oldtimers is a real problem.

So, again, please point to me stating or implying that there is only one way a contract gets written. Maybe you need to put on your reading glasses.
[Nexus 4 General] draugaz:
I would agree and disagree at the same time :)

While it is true, that Nexus sells in some globally pretty insignificant numbers, but I think it is very important as an identity anchor. To prevent OEMs drifting too far away from their original vision. Google is not naive enough to compete for a market share (i.e. pull the surface thing), I think they will do everything to sell as many Nexus devices as they possibly can. But this is very delicate walk on eggshells as google does not want to mob their OEMs.

As for N4, I still tend to think we simply face consequences of the initial demand underestimation. Which pretty much sealed the fate, the rest is just consequences.

If you look realistically, no production is infinitely flexible, no matter how big. While LG produces sh**loads of LCDs for Apple, it does not mean they have idling capacities to produce N4 displays at a moment's notice. Or that they get unlimited numbers of APQ8064's. And so on.

It is a bit like distillery. If someone walks in and orders extra barrels of some special alcohol, it takes some time until you see first drops out of condenser. No matter how big the distillery is. Even if you have all the corn you need and immediately start working.

And even then there is no way you will get everything you ordered at once. Just a drop by drop. Which looks like exactly what is currently happening.

In theory LG/Google could simply "build more condensers", i.e. retool and start more production lines. But even if they had enough parts and were willing to halt other production in favor of N4, this means investing significant money for a very short production run just to cover that short peak of demand. Which would not pay itself, it is simply cheaper to lose some impatient kids who can't wait several weeks. That's if this was an option at all which I highly doubt.

Anyway, I think LG and Google were both right in their "accusations". If LG & Google agreed on some unit counts first and after launch Google suddenly wanted more, I can see that LG was unable to increase their production immediately. So they formally fulfilled their part of initial agreement, pitty about those changed circumstances.

And there is also a possibility that LG had some component sourcing or production problems and not all of the shipments arrived to google on time as promised. Which led to those comments from frustrated google manager.
[Nexus 4 General] cobyman7035:
LG < Samsung

via my NeXus⁴ using XDA Premium app
[Nexus 4 General] BarryH_GEG:
You bring up an interesting point. The Nexus S and Galaxy Nexus were just Samsung phones that happened to be Nexi. They were priced, sold, and distributed by Samsung just like all their other phones. They were also made available through some of the large global wireless carriers at similar prices to traditional phones. The N7 was treated the same way. It was widely available at resellers at the same time it was available on Play. Unlike the N4 and N10, Samsung was making as healthy a margin on their Nexi and Asus had nothing that competed with the N7 and stood to gain by pushing them out in large volume via their distribution network.

With the N4 and N10 Google moved away from that model and is relying primarily on Play. The N4's available at typical retail prices (vs. $299) on just a handful of carriers and the N10 is only available in very limited quantities at Walmart (and their affiliate Sams Club). Maybe part of the "deal" for the N4 (LG) and N10 (Samsung) was that because of the bargain-basement pricing Google became 100% responsible for sales and distribution? With both LG and Samsung selling higher-margined competitors to both devices I can't see them wanting to leverage their distribution networks to make the Nexi widely available and potentially harm the sales of their own devices. It's clear Samsung has nothing to do with the sales of the N10. Since Google doesn't know squat about h/w sales and distribution nor do they have any resources in place perhaps that's part of the problem with estimating, stocking, and shipping the N4 and N10?
[Nexus 4 General] draugaz:
Not really, those margins should be about the same. In countries with functioning retail markets street prices of the GalaxyNexus (or Nexus S) sunk down pretty rapidly as soon as they were widely available, for example: http://geizhals.at/de/?phist=692132&age=9999

And you need to figure in, said price has already all the taxes figured in (in contrast from american prices) plus the whole distribution channel chain markup which adds up to around a half of the retail price we see in that list. So, the wholesale price of the galaxy nexus was about 250$. Not very different from N4.

Google essentially skipped all that distribution channel and opted to work at almost no profit. If you as a normal retailer would order N4 from LG distribution channels, you would be quoted the same usual price of 500$/euro.

You can be sure, Google knows everything and much more. They surely have enough executives with an extensive experience in retail and distribution.

They just deliberately don't operate as a normal retailer, i.e. they aren't yet building their own surface.

If they suddenly do, you can be sure it will be announced in advance. Loud and clear.
[Nexus 4 General] IINexusII:
You can pickup a Nexus 4 from carphone warehouse and o2 at LG's retail price of £380-400. No problems from LG's end.
[Nexus 4 General] immor2al:
Hey...if you can get one, I highly recommend..:)... You all realize that this is all marketing strategies and conspiracy!
[Nexus 4 General] BarryH_GEG:
That's kind of my point. Samsung's Nexi were universally priced including the drops as its lifecycle ebbed. Why would anyone buy a device that cost a reseller £500 from LG when the same device can be had directly from Google at £239/£279? Google setting the price as low as they did pretty much assures sales via LG’s distribution channels at standard high-end phone prices will be nascent. I personally wouldn’t pay almost twice for something once I knew what its true value was established at. Especially when there are upcoming high-end devices like the SGS4, Xperia Z and HTC M7 that will have more features at similar “retail” prices. I did notice that Handtec in the UK has the N4 listed at Google's pricing but showing "coming soon." If in fact the N4's available through resellers (at some point) at the same prices as Google's offering I take back everything I said.

Google's a s/w company and a marketing intermediary. It's a big leap to assume they happen to have staff on hand that know the mechanics (vs. the theory) of large scale distribution. If this brain trust is in fact present, judging by the outcome, they certainly weren't asked to help with the sales and distribution of the N4 and N10. ;)

Edit: This is from LG France. So much for Google's "extensive experience." ;)

The Nexus 4 proposes an excellent technical specifications / price. Supply problems are not necessarily completely related to LG. Google has presented forecasts calculated according to their previous sales history of Nexus. But they have been less demand. Current deliveries of LG Google correspond to what had been pre-ordered on Google Play. We continue to deliver regularly. But it is lean. This is why the Nexus 4 is always shown as exhausted and the potential buyers feel they can not buy it.

For example, the initial forecasts of Google were 10 times higher in the United Kingdom and Germany. We deliver so much more in these countries than France. There was a balance that has been poorly anticipated. But be careful, I do not throw stones at anyone. Google and LG, it's going very well. Today, if we want to increase the frequency of deliveries, it takes about 6 weeks time.

http://translate.google.com/transla...-explique-pourquoi-il-semble-introuvable.html
[Nexus 4 General] nikeman513:
This is true, but they could have done more market research into estimating demand.

Now imagine a company that releases a good product alternative, when they are the original creators that always provided the crucial piece of the product that makes all the products work.

Next they release this product and everyone knowing who they are, not only is selling that crucial piece of that product, but also, making it themselves at a much cheaper price than their competitors. People will gobble up the supply, and when it gets sold out and can't fulfill orders immediately, some may see it as poor handling if manufacturing, but most would see it as an amazing product, bringing up not only the demand if the product even more, but the brand name to go with it.

This is Google's business strategy, and it's working! Don't believe that running out and back orders was an accidental mistake by one of the largest IT corporations in the world.

P.S. I seriously hate proof reading on my phone, so please excuse spelling or grammatical mistakes, mostly made by auto correct.
[Nexus 4 General] nawoa:
Whoops, wrong thread.
[Nexus 4 General] MaxCarnage:
I believe that falling prices are a reality that all the smartphone manufacturers were going to have to face eventually. As the upgrades become more an more incremental and the market is flooded with variations on the same theme without any real innovation OEMs knew this was going to happen sooner or later. They'll stave it off for a while, and for probably a few years you'll see prices drop on "mid-range" phones while "flagship" phones from each carrier charge a premium for having the latest and greatest, but eventually this stuff all bottoms out then evens out. Look at desktop computer prices.
[Nexus 4 General] m0majeed:
Google buy these phones in bulk so they can sell it for whatever they want. LG are still making profit, it's only Google that ain't.
[Nexus 4 General] JimmyA7X:
Yah, I'm jumping ship on my SGS2 for the Nexus 4, the price was a MASSIVE factor in doing so. I can still sell my SGS2 for 200+ dollars used.. and can now have the newest android device... win-win
[Nexus 4 General] pack21:
Nothing more nothing less.

Until today LG for me was zero, nothing, sh*t ..... could never give a penny for a LG smartphone.

If LG is currently thinking about financial gain, may be losing a great opportunity that Google and Droid Fans are giving her.

LG's profit will come only in the future, if people get satisfied with Nexus 4 quality.

Be smart LG!
[Nexus 4 General] iTeeXDA:
I agree with a lot of responses in this thread. The Nexus 4 is an opportunity for LG to show developers and users (to a lesser extent given the low availability and exposure of the device), that they are a legitimate player in the Android game.

Google absolutely could have done a better job with availability and the way the play store experience was handled.

What I am worried about is the support. Since LG is not making any (?) profit on these devices they have no leverage to entertain repairs. Having never dealt with LG mobile, I may not be in a position to judge.
[Nexus 4 General] Altimas:
I don't think its a conspiracy theory, this is just capitalism at its finest.

Google created a business model that will destroy the existing market because Google is able to deliver a better product for less money. Amazon will also be able to keep with its tablets as well because both companies are offsetting the price of the hardware with because they make their money else where.

Its going to be a tough road ahead for OEM's.
[Nexus 4 General] spencer88:
I just hope it hurts Apple big time.

As you can probably tell, I'm not a fan.
[Nexus 4 General] Wooven:
Sorry i named the thread wrong, overtireness and multitasking got me good, i was thinking of "LG hampering Nexus 4 production".

My point is that LG was looking more for advertisements than making it a bestseller, restoring its image.

Please delete it if it's/i'm too stupid.