yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 4 General] draugaz:
Not really, it is just incredible intel fab wizardry. I think ARM chip done by intel would be even more impressive.
[Nexus 4 General] Nuu~:
to be hones, i never ever thought that x86 would be able to reach ARM in performance per watt. intel really did an amazing job there with their atom chips.

however, if ARM Holdings has the budget intel has, they'd most likely throw out chips that would best x86 in every category other than HPC.

an intel ARM chip... i don't know... we would probably have to decide between either NEON extensions or double the amount of ram :silly:

(i'm looking at you, VT-d vs unlocked multiplier)
[Nexus 4 General] blackhand1001:
I am talking vs higher power chips like mobile core i3s. Those absolutely rape any arm chip. There are advantages to the x86 architecture, the biggest thing being out of order execution which is in all the chips except the atom although at some point I expect Intel to add that to the atom as well if only for tablets.
[Nexus 4 General] draugaz:
ARM can also be out of order. In fact, Cortex-A9 and Cortex-A15 are exactly that.

It is actually not so important is it ARM or x86. That same Atom internally is a completely different beast which just happens to "emulate" the x86. Intel just learned over time how to do this very effciently. But in theory they could be even more efficient if they used something more straightforward like ARM.

The thing is, that Intel at the moment seems to have the best engineers and the best fabs. They absolutely crushed AMD and now seem to aim at ARM camp.
[Nexus 4 General] @rbiter:
as much as i'd like to see intel flex it's engineering might in the coming months/years, i am still rooting for ARM. heck, even AMD. if not for ARM, i don't think intel would have the competitive flair it has right now. intel has all but crushed AMD and here comes ARM, a little british company just whopping up the mobile market with it's efficient cpu's. ARM does need to beef up it's cpu so as not let intel have an edge, but they need to work on their GPU's also. imagination technologies is the nvidia of the mobile market and nvidia knows that. that is why we keep seeing nvidia sticking their nose in as many mobile markets as they can. trying to keep their brand recognition in the game so the other guys with little brand recognition have less of a chance. android OEM's need to utilize imagination technologies more, or buy a bigger share than apple's 10%. if apple were to acquire IT outright, android have a lot to lose in the long term in the gaming sector.
[Nexus 4 General] draugaz:
ARM has their own Mali GPU core. Which is not bad at all. It is quite unlikely they will get involved with Imagination.

There are only so many other chip designers left out there, like Qualcomm, Nvidia, STEricsson, Marvell (ex Intel PXA), TI OMAP and basically that's it.

Qualcomm has their own Adreno (ex ATI Imageon) so they aren't interested,

Nvidia has their own Tegra (also not so interested, quite suprisingly, no? :)),

STEricsson are using Imageon PoverVR GPUs, but they are way too small to make any significant impact here (the same goes for Marvell).

TI OMAP has basically left the building.

There is simply no one out there to utilize Imagination GPUs. And the OEMs have only very indirect influence here, e.g. only by giving design wins to the chips utilizing Imagination technologies. Which they currently don't seem to be doing.

Oh yes, there is also Samsung with their Exynos (using ARMs own Mali), but no sane OEM would touch those chips with a barge pole. Which kind of puts them out of the game.

And then I am quite sure there are other "hidden" concerns, due to the Apple/Intel involvement. I could imagine, that everyone is (rightfully) afraid to mess with Imagination Technologies, since Apple and Intel have literally unlimited pockets to defend their influence there. They can basically outbet any investor threatening their strategic goals. So there is no point even to try to be involved.

The ARM CPU "ecosystem" actually isn't that much better. It rapidly starting to look like Intel vs AMD. Only two major generic players: Qualcomm and Nvidia.

TI is officially out, STEricsson is pretty much out, Exynos is burdened with mothership agenda.

Which is still better than Intel vs AMD, since we have an Intel climbing uphill vs ARM (Nvidia + Qualcomm) comfortably sitting on the top. But funny thing is, there will be no one left to directly compete as soon as Intel/ARM race is decided. No matter who wins.

So, here we are. A perfect example of liberal market forces at work. Just at the hypercharged pace.
[Nexus 4 General] Androyed:
This deserves its own thread. How do they say that on the interwebz? Quoted for truth?

As a European I mostly agree. Prices are higher here though. 100 dollar is not 77 euro as you might expect, but 100 euro or even more. Certainly our telecom subscriptions are really expensive. Unlimited data isn't as common as it is in the US, which is why all the cloud/streaming services of Google are kind of useless here. I pay 13 euro a month for 100 minutes/SMS and 1GB data. That's sim-only (not connected to a phone or anything), and it's probably the cheapest you can get. 1GB data is fine mostly, but not if you're using cloud/streaming services.

That being said, I'm glad that I'm Dutch. It would be even better if I was born a German, but we piggyback with their economy anyway.
[Nexus 4 General] blackhand1001:
Exactly why wouldn't an oem touch the exynos. I'd really love to know why they wouldn't want it. I don't seen any good reason for them to not use them. They certainly are more open than Qualcomm about drivers who has literally provided nothing and said that they will never open source them. The nexus 4 isn't even in aosp. Samsung has had a great track record with both the hummingbird and the new exynos 5250 as far as providing proper support and performance. The exynos chips also have a good track record for battery performance as well.
[Nexus 4 General] cvfl:
Thanks Androyed, I appreciate the kind words.

For sure one of the common threads keeping us back from even more rapid growth is the taxation & regulation. I remember the VAT part of pricing and accounting was a nightmare, especially where goods from APAC hop skip their way with value adding throughout the EU - which is the increasing model more and more. Build the generic volumes in low cost factories, and do the in country localisation using locally sourced goods - sounds like the best of both worlds, until you realize in real $ how much the orchestration costs you.

The regulating and auctioning of spectrum is an archaic dinosaur that has also long outlived its purpose. Can you imagine if carriers didn't have to squeeze every red cent out of the consumer and was actually encouraged to roll out new services and features as they are developed? Sometimes I just get really bummed out knowing I'm being held hostage.
[Nexus 4 General] wendellc:
Good, all reason to bring out the Xphone.... All Google goodness.
[Nexus 4 General] draugaz:
This is the kind of openness OEMs couldn't care less. They get their sources not from aosp so they don't have that problem at all.

The problem with Exynos is, that it belongs to the same mothership which also happens to own the biggest OEM in the market. Internal "firewalling" or not, it is still the same company with common financial goals. Since you begin with design and supply negotiations more than a year in advance, Samsung will know more than a year in advance what exactly are you doing, how many do you plan to sell and so on.

Which is tremendous advantage for samsung and even bigger disadvantage to you as Samsungs competitor.

Samsungs engineers will visit your most secret engineering labs etc etc. Would you (for example as HTC) really want it?

And there is a bunch of other "nontechnical" problems. Those chips are not just "plug and play". They require a bunch of very specific know-how (=time and money), you need the whole teams familiar with them. A lot of this wizardry is not documented anywhere. They literally lock you in.

So you get dependent, since a sudden switch is very expensive and won't happen quickly. Do you want to depend on your biggest competitor? There are a lot of very subtle ways to hamper your business and no contract on earth can protect you. Why do you think certain iOutfit push to decouple themselves from sammy as hard as they can? They aren't unrational and this is not an "act of retaliation".
[Nexus 4 General] lunzi88:
same reason why US won't use Huawei/ZTE stuff.
[Nexus 4 General] @rbiter:
Your point falls apart when that certain ioutfit just sidesteps to another foundry. All they did was change the pipe that will still put out their flavor of smoke. Apple is just dope fiend just as much their customers are but they're more into being addicted to money than product. Apple needs to use all the cash resources they built on their me too phone and apps and build their own foundry. Create jobs for Americans and start paying their fair share of taxes. Same goes for google. The taxes part. Google is into data and software, not so much hardware.

Sent from my GT-N7100
[Nexus 4 General] draugaz:
Not at all. That certain iOutfit just happen to be big enough to afford their own chips. So they were lucky to be able to keep their chips and "just" need to look for another foundry.

Your average OEM would not be so lucky. If their relations with Sammy go sour for whatever reason (for example, due to the competition in the market), they would be forced to replace everything. Which is damn expensive and won't happen overnight. Which would turn them to a sitting ducks for a year or so.

This is why we don't see much exynos in non samsung devices. There is just one tiny chinese outfit (Meizu) I am aware of.
[Nexus 4 General] cvfl:
Great discussion, but also remember that depending on what manufacturer we're talking about and which country - production may in fact be taking place in an industrial park - meaning that major vendors are co-located on site, building products for more than one product line. It IS a huge cost to boot one vendor and ramp up another if that is the case - but not all R&D internally writing for a new chip. Contract termination, displacing a vendor (who BTW is probably also building chips for others in that same building) and locating a new vendor to move capital equipment there is kinda a big deal.

It's perhaps not as simple as the manufacturer deciding to switch what product they put in their shopping cart, and hiring some programming talent.
[Nexus 4 General] spaceman860:
This sucks

http://m.ibtimes.co.uk/lg-nexus-4-buy-price-supply-successor-422990.html

Sent from my Nexus 4
[Nexus 4 General] Nuu~:
A new nexus 4 months (4 months... Nexus 4.. Heh.) After the old one? No. That's definitely not going to happen.

Not even Google would be that retarded
[Nexus 4 General] Androyed:
Are you implying that Google is at least a little retarted? Yeah, that clearly shows...

Anyway, that ibtimes website posts all kind of crap. Not really a source I would trust. The article does not make sense at all. Conspiracies exist, but not this way.
[Nexus 4 General] draugaz:
http://bgr.com/2013/01/11/nexus-4-successor-rumor-289453/

Internutz at its best. Now it will start making rounds with an outraged comments and heaps of new threads about the same.

While in reality right now LG is even accelerating their production, from 10k devices going to 20k.
[Nexus 4 General] Androyed:
That International Business Times website is pure rubbish. Shame on BGR. I do wonder why they have so many problems with the production, and I do wonder whose "fault" it is. But this isn't the reason.

I'm still waiting for an option to buy. But I can wait. In the meantime, I have the third best smartphone in the world to play with: the Nexus S
[Nexus 4 General] cvfl:
Actually, there a large part of US folks that won't use Huawei because of security concerns - questions of phones cc'ing data back to the motherland. As a government contractor - I just can't risk that.
[Nexus 4 General] DuudX:
Maybe they are halting the production to make some improvements to the product line? or perhaps adjusting the line for changed HW? adding 4G support or perhaps 32GB storage option.. or both?

Most likely its just a rumor put by some competitor.. to add more steam to the release failure ;D
[Nexus 4 General] @rbiter:
That is the only plausible reason I see. 32gb. Adding lte support is unlikely but not an unreasonable assumption. Aside from those two very wishful thinking scenarios it could just be plain and simple lg needs their productions lines for lg. Google can wait.

Sent from my GT-N7100
[Nexus 4 General] draugaz:
Relax, noone is halting anything, in contrary - they actually are increasing production.
[Nexus 4 General] klvnhng:
Production has been pretty constant (if not accelerating) since December—about 20k devices per day
[Nexus 4 General] ross1998:
yup plus on tmonews.com shows that nexus 4's are being shipped to tmobile stores.
[Nexus 4 General] wilsonlam97:
Whoever theorized this idea is an idiot. If I was selling a crazy amount of bananas at a discounted price to the consumer and I gain 50 cents per banana vs 140 cents at the competitor's grocery store why would I stop (/limit) selling it because it isn't as profitable? I'd still be making more money purely because I'd be stealing all the business. Even if it would cause my other products like the orange to fail I would still be doing well because of my bananas selling successfully.

This also adds an incentive for my customers to come back because they got to experience the good stuff at my affordable price. This move will get everybody hooked on the bananas and it's no big deal if I decide to raise my price next year because they will pay whatever I ask (within reason) to buy more bananas again. You're creating a reputation as well and it has a lot of positive side effects. Sure there will be people who refuse to pay the increased price next round but who cares? I've already targeting my main consumer base and they will stay loyal as long as I treat them well.

This works every time. Samsung was only successful because everybody was able to get the S1 and the S2 for cheap on almost every carrier. The S3 was when they really made a noticeable price increase.

Remember that Google is still a new player when it comes to being a mainstream electronics brand. They weren't very serious about targeting everybody and your grandma back in the Nexus S days. Now they are really trying to hit the mass market with this gen's Nexus lineup. The Galaxy Nexus was still a bit of a niche phone at launch a year+ ago. There were barely any advertisements pushing the idea.
[Nexus 4 General] ilovesoad:
Because we have all seen so many nexus 4 ads :P
[Nexus 4 General] threeclaws:
This only makes sense if you're selling enough of your discounted product to offset the losses from devaluing your other products. LG is selling 50million phones per year, ~10million of that is 4G smartphone sales, the n4 has sold maybe half a million. So if the n4 is devaluing the brand it very well could be in their best interest to cut bait.

This may have been true in Canada but in the US the GS, GS2 and GS3 all had the same starting price (roughly) $200 on contract, just like pretty much every other smartphone.
[Nexus 4 General] cvfl:
There are +/- 312,000,000 people in the US alone. What percentage of those people care, or even KNOW, that LG is building the Nexus 4? The Nexus 4 isn't devaluing the LG brand, because it isn't an LG phone - for all intents and purposes. It's a Google phone.

For the conspiracy theorists out there - if anything, LG may be refusing to increase production, but they sure as heck ain't cutting production. Why? They have a contract to live up to. What'd you think LG is just building phones based on a soju drunk and a handshake?

The more Nexus 4s LG makes, the more money they make, plain and simple. Their stockholders see it that way too.
[Nexus 4 General] calyxim:
Let's say LG is selling their devices to Google for 120 usd. I don't think a mobile carrier would pay a penny more than 120 dollars.

LG is almost like Foxconn of apple. They have a contract with Google. Probably something like this;

-20k units to be produced and shipped everyday.

-if the order is more than 20k Google to pay 150 dollars per unit.

Seriously, its not just a handshake.
[Nexus 4 General] diegodbm:
I think that maybe Google has to stop this gossip that was killing the Nexus brand, or maybe it's the kick off of the X Phone?

Enviado desde mi Nexus 7 usando Tapatalk 2
[Nexus 4 General] nikeman513:
Lg and Google aren't having a conspiracy theory... Seriously! Its called capitalism and this was supposed to be the result of it. Competition equals choices that end in cheaper products. The real conspiracy theory is (if at all), that people believed a smartphone was ever with $500 off contract. I used to work for Verizon as a partner and got to see real coats of productions on all phones being produced. Most of the phones were triple of what they sell for off contract. Average smartphone costs were about $120-$160 per unit. With technology getting cheaper and more efficient to produce, it was just a matter of time that something like the N4 came out with an honest profit margin. That's the meaning of capitalism... I have a PHD in business administration, along with, many years in managing and selling for major manufacturers and sellers... Take my word for it.
[Nexus 4 General] earlyberd:
This.

We all know that the Nexus 4 isn't built to the same quality standards as previous Nexus phones, as this was revealed when the iFixit guys did their teardown. There are no impact zones, the battery is bolted in, components held together by tape, etc. There were also the multiple reports of the glass back cracking from minimal stress of being put in your pocket.

Aside from that, I even have a little personal experience with the poor quality. On the first day of using it, my girlfriend dropped her Nexus 4 from a distance of 8 inches and managed to dent the chrome bezel. It literally just slid off of our couch cushion and bounced off the interior metal frame of the couch, and that was enough to dent the bezel. Suffice to say I bought the bumper as soon as I could after that, but that's still patently ridiculous.

That's not to say that it's a bad phone, because at least we get the same great internals from the Optimus G, but it's abundantly clear that LG cut a ton of corners in order to meet the $300 price point. I refuse to believe that they could be losing money on something so obviously manufactured for dirt cheap.
[Nexus 4 General] IvanTSI:
any info on when they will be available again?
[Nexus 4 General] Jayrod1980:
I don't think they are losing money but to say this phone is bargain basement in terms of build quality, I don't believe you are correct. How is the optimus g put together? How much better is its construction? I paid over 500 for the nexus S off production and that phone had the same build quality as the galaxy s vibrant and my touch 4g I owned before it. Same with the galaxy nexus I paid over 600 for. The galaxy line use a lot of tape to hold components together. The bezel on the vibrant is just like this one and scratched and dented just as easily. The my touch 4g was a T-Mobile flagship phone and 2 of mine has a loose and rattle prone speaker. The glossy plastics on all of the devices other than the galaxy nexus were very prone to scratching. I went through a couple vibrants because the glass wasn't even lined up properly around the bezel. Look at the I fix it tear down of almost all of these phones. They all have delicate construction to some extent. The t mobile nexus 4 retails for 500. If it weren't a Google offering it would be near the same price as any other phone with its specifications. I'd wager the nexus 4 would retail for 600 if it had 32 GB of storage. There is no proof this phone is cut rate.

Everyone is comparing these phones to the iPhone. Everyone I know that has a 4 or 4s keeps theirs in a case because it is just as prone to breakage. Plus it has more over built construction from apple making the most profit per device in the business. This is precisely why they can afford to build this way. The only android manufacturer I see that makes their stuff as overbuilt is Motorola... And they aren't profitable.

Sent from my 5th and final Nexus 4
[Nexus 4 General] @rbiter:
I wouldn't say iphones are over built. Nokia, Motorola and apple arguably have the best pcb and engineering behind their designs and can afford to have a nicely built exterior. Also, I don't get all the hate with Samsung phones feeling cheap. Yes, they're plastic but overall a lot of their designs are great. I do wish they would deviate a little more and use the software navigation, use metal, or use unibody or build a little heavier duty on a few of their phones. HTC designs are just as boring as iphones as over the years they basically look the same.

Sent from my GT-N7100
[Nexus 4 General] cvfl:
a) If you worked for a carrier - you most assuredly do not know the true cost of a device.

b) I'm not going to believe you because you have a PHD, especially if it's in business administration.

c) You should remember not to confuse education with intelligence. I rent your opinions all the time, and then crumple them up and throw them in the trash. Toilet paper is much softer, by the way.
[Nexus 4 General] EvoYas:
If you work for a carrier you DO KNOW the real cost of the phone, it shows up on your screen the minute you scan it. It shows up so you can have an idea of how to handle your customer, maybe if you can work a lil discount to just get rid of the phone it self.
[Nexus 4 General] @rbiter:
wow. just wow. after reading your a) position and then reading the other two it makes me wonder how did you fit a toilet paper dispenser in your mouth.
[Nexus 4 General] Wisefire:
You act as if you know what exactly he did at this job, and how he did it. A business administration degree would help put him in a position to do things like that(to see prices and such.) He didn't say he was a simple customer service representative.

DBAA.
[Sprint Samsung Galaxy S III] flacraker:
Im in west palm beach Florida, im just starting to see 4g lte here..

My question is what Is the best way to stay conected with it. Does it just stay with what ever is the stronger of a

Signal.. and is there a way to force the 4g antenna on.. thanks for any advice.
[Sprint Samsung Galaxy S III] IAmSixNine:
Staying connected to it will be a big problem for the next 6 months as they keep building it out. Also keep in mind this is from the ground up as well as still working out any bugs that arise. Im in Dallas, a first launch area and still some places my connection goes in and out of 3G/4G.

But in some areas where 4G was not solid, it now is. So its coming along. Not sure about forcing it or turning up or down thresholds. Im holding off on doing stuff like that.. for now..
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] dannyvanderzande:
I am trying to move a Rom Manager backup to the pc so I can wipe my sd card before installing another rom.

If I copy the rom manager/backup folder it copies all files to my computer in no time. Problem is, the copied files are only 24 MB while I have almost 200 apps installed. This can't be right.

How do I copy my entire backup to my computer so I can wipe everything that's on the device?

Thanks in advance!