yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[About XDA developers] boborone:
I've thought about this before. And before xda university came out, I thought the only way would be to flame noobs like we did in past to post something useful or not at all. But now I think a very close tie and relationship with xdau when it comes out may be the only way. I have no involvement in it, but I hope that a strong emphasis is put on a section for dev talk and dev talk only. We have gone too far for a push to PC that even WIP threads titled devs only still gets posts from noobs asking questions. Even like you mentioned, devs like general banter in their threads now cause it keeps it on the front page and therefore more donations. Dev is secluded to irc and PMs. It needs to be brought in the open and the competition for the best mod needs to stop. We need more collaboration, even with new intelligent members to Foster innovation. I hope that's what xdau brings. And a close and strong tie between the two sites may help tremendously.

_______________________________________

"fat bottomed girls, you make this rocking world go round"
[About XDA developers] KidCarter93:
^^^I've just quoted part of your post and passed it to pulser. I cut it all out apart from the dev talk bit, as that's the main point of it. Hopefully if it's not something that's already being added, it's something that will now be implemented.

''Absolute power corrupts absolutely, but absolute powerlessness does the same''
[About XDA developers] boborone:
I didn't know pulser had a hand in it. I have faith now that it will something. Not that I didn't think much of it before, I was excited at it's announcement, but I know he's an old school guy who likes dev discussion and collaboration.

_______________________________________

"fat bottomed girls, you make this rocking world go round"
[About XDA developers] KidCarter93:
Yeah he's the one who posted about xda-u in rc forum, so it's just in there that I've left my post. He'll see it later today or tomorrow anyway.

I do think it has a great chance of being implemented though because judging from the discussions brought on mainly by garyd9, a lot of members and mods have thought it's a brilliant idea.

''Absolute power corrupts absolutely, but absolute powerlessness does the same''
[About XDA developers] garyd9:
That's interesting. This thread is the first time I've heard of "XDA University." (I stopped reading the homepage long ago due to some.. umm.. low quality posts - and the refusal of the poster to correct issues.)

Anyway, XDAU appears similar to something I'm trying to do with my posts in the i317 section: Instead of posting finished work, I'm posting things that explain what I'm doing, why, etc.

Sometime in the next week (when my paying job eases up a bit) I'll be starting a new kernel. However, instead of a "Here's a kernel that does wonderful things", I was thinking of starting with a stock samsung kernel and documenting for people how to get it from github, how to compile it, how to set up the ramdisk, etc.

Then, a little bit a time, modify the kernel while explaining what I'm doing, why I'm doing it, how I'm doing it, etc.

I'm sure many people will think it's a waste of space and bandwidth, but if 2 out of 100 people find it worthwhile and learn something, then I've done more good then 1000 different "Use MyKewlROMandDonateToMe" threads.

I suspect it'll be other developer-type who will find it most useful. There are lots of people who are skilled enough to do this kind of thing, but aren't quite sure how to get started with it. As well, I'm *****ing that XDA has too many threads "selling" firmware and kernels and very few discussing - so I had better practice what I preach. ;)

(I also intend to keep the kernel modifications fairly limited and even regressive in some cases to keep it a learning and discussion tool and NOT a product.)

Take care

Gary
[About XDA developers] Fallen Spartan:
XDAU is a work in progress to try and educate people. Surprised its the first time you heard about it tbh, but that will hopefully change across thr whole forum
[About XDA developers] boborone:
Nice man, I look forward to seeing it. I read all over the forums to learn, not just what I own. I'm not a hardware guy, but I love learning the code and how it works. Most of the old timers have moved on from teaching and sharing. I love reading and learning new code and how it works. That was what I miss about the old days. I read, because people shared, so when I had a problem, I dug into the code and manilla files to tweak and figure out what I needed to do. It's a big reason why I hate One-Click mods. My first Android, I had to flash an update.zip with the stock recovery, then dig in the build prop, change values, then flash a new kernal and recovery. If you don't know what is going on, then you don't how to fix it yourself. It's too easy nowadays.

And man, there are more than 2 out of 100 people who want to learn, we are just a silent voice who get drowned out by the whining of babies.
[About XDA developers] bigbobtk:
The only reason why it has come so far is because it is easy now. I don't think it would have been as good had it not been easy for the general public, therefore making it popular. Hopefully that makes sense. I know almost nothing about programming, but I am very appreciative of what this community has done, making my phone much better.
[About XDA developers] KidCarter93:
To be honest, I don't really agree with when you say "I don't think it would have been as good had it not been easy for the general public" and here's why.

Fair enough I'm only a recent member of this forum in comparison to those who have seen the true path XDA has taken, but based on what most of the "old-timers" have said it used to be a much better site because it was more based around development and not a support site.

While I can't argue that one way or the other, I can understand that it must have been a much nicer environment back then simply because there wasn't as many 'noobs' with smart phones.

So, with all that being said, I think it would've been a better place beforehand but you're right about the fact that XDA wouldn't as much of a popular site without smartphones being owned by a big majority of the general public and the guides etc that this site has, to make it inevitably easier for them.

''Absolute power corrupts absolutely, but absolute powerlessness does the same''
[About XDA developers] boborone:
Nah I see what the new guy is talking about. It's because it's so easy to mod your phone, everyone is doing it. I know a couple ERDs that wished AdamOutler wouldn't have released the unbrickable mod for the SGSI. To me, that started a wave of people taking chances that should never have had a phone in the first place. If people would have had to go through what I went through to flash my first WinMo, this site would be still a place of sparse membership. I was so scarred to flash my Touch Pro, I waited till I had 2 to HSPL it. Now, you get a phone, download a zip file, plug your phone up, and 3 mins later, you have a rooted custom ROM kernal on your phone ready to ask questions as to why wifi doesn't work. Back then, because there was the danger and work to get that thing hacked, you read and read some more. You knew what to expect after a flash, and how to deal with it. Now it's so easy, you can buy a phone in the morning, flash 15 ROMs on it, revert back to stock, clean bootloader and all, and take it back to the store. It's a lil different now. Things need to be hard imho.

EDIT

sht man, sorry, I said new guy only cause I saw you had 11 posts. Didn't see you'd been here since '10. Sorry man.
[About XDA developers] KidCarter93:
Yeah I agree with what he said about it all being too easy for members now, but the main point I was disputing was about how it's became better with the influx of new users. I don't truly think that's the case at all, but of course each to their own :p

''Absolute power corrupts absolutely, but absolute powerlessness does the same''
[About XDA developers] garyd9:
We can't go back in time. The genie is out of the bottle and the entire world uses smartphones (and many already know about xda-developers.) Said once, it's feedback. Said twice, it's complaining. Don't complain without having a realistic plan to develop a fix. (Otherwise, you're just as bad as the newbie *****ing that he flashed the wrong firmware and now his wifi is broken.)

The past is done and we can't change it. The present is already here and we HAVE to (eventually) accept it for what it is. The real question (and I think the target of this thread) is to work towards the future.

Unfortunately, it takes the people who run the forum to recognize what is and what isn't broken. Perhaps they WANT this to be support website where nearly every OP in the so-called "development" subforums looks like an advertisement for a product (and not discussion about development.) I hope not, but I really don't know.

So, I'm going to push back at Fallen Spartan, svetius, and the other "senior" people here: What is the current goal for XDA-Developers? What is its purpose?

I've offered some suggestions on how to "fix" things, but those assume that my ideas match the folks who run the forum. That assumption might be wrong.

(Wow.. I'm being reasonable. I must be drunk.)
[About XDA developers] pulser_g2:
Hi,

First off, I should introduce myself. I'm one of the people who is pretty quiet here and doesn't say much... But I take a big interest in feedback from users, and what they feel we are doing right or wrong. Particularly when it comes to development or noobization.

Why? Because I'm an old grouch who absolutely can't stand idiots who can't read. I'm fairly new here in the grand scheme of things, getting my first smartphone the week before I registered... (Yes, my registration date is real). But when I joined, I spent over a week, choosing to read every post in every thread in the first 10 pages of the HTC Hero forum.

This is what we want and need to encourage. Unfortunately the Internet is now seen by most to be an interactive, time sensitive, get my answers now medium. Partly due to the prevalence of cesspits such as YouTube comments, and 4chan, where people have a false impression of their perceived right to comment, it's been getting worse lately.

The ten-post rule works. A bit.

I should add we leave no stone unturned in thinking about these things - I recall even discussing the idea of sandboxing every user into a "playpen" for noobs, and only letting accounts leave it once the playpen agreed in general that they were ready...

The addition of original android development forums came about became I was sick of seeing good development involving registers or decompiling to be overrun on the listings by some guy who thinks his unzip/rezip of the stock ROM is better than someone else's rezip...

At one time I used to have a custom ROM on the go for the i9100. I didn't agree with the mad winzipping game - I preferred to go for the measured approach, fixing bugs in the Samsung rom. Or rather removing annoying "features" which simply served to annoy users, like loud notifications of fully charged batteries...

While everyone else leapt to zip the latest rom, I'd often sit there waiting on the new rom to be discussed. If it was good, it would be updated. That rom is now not updated for over a year, as I still don't feel Samsung have managed to release a stock ICS rom of suitable quality to justify the change.

A lot of people couldn't see any reason it was different, but I do recall seeing specific feedback from a leading tech journalist, asking how we were able to boost battery life by roughly 15 to 30 percent on the same handset... Some developers use snake oil claims... But really it was the educated choice of base rom, which mattered.

Anyway if you have ideas please let us know. You can pm or email me (pulser at xda-developers.com) and we can discuss anything you want to bring up, from a technical perspective of what's feasible.

Obviously on a site this size, the scalability of a solution is key, both technically and logistically... But that's part of the fun I look for!
[About XDA developers] garyd9:
Good - that's very good to hear. So far, the one suggestion of allowing development discussion, and allowing the OP/RD to hide spam/disruptive posts in their discussion threads (subject to moderator review) seems to be one that no one has disagreed with. It's doesn't solve all the problems, but it's a step in the right direction.

I think XDA might be starting to encourage people to share not just the end results of their efforts, but also the process. At least XDAU seems to be a step in that direction, and the examples set by many of the ERD's is encouraging. More steps in that direction would be good, and I'm trying to even move my own posts in that direction.

However, I see too many people who seem to abuse XDA as a money machine via that "donation" button. That is very opposed to open source development and community. I'd like to offer an extreme on this: Anyone ASKING for a "donation" be warned once and banned the second time. (Or perhaps disable the donation button for them the second time.) You'd have to give notice of this, as many will need time to get "Please donate!" and "Feel free to donate!" out of their sig files. Leave the donation button in-place, but with no pressure to use it.

disclaimer: I did accept a "donation" on XDA once, and that was for code someone asked me to add to a kernel to support higher current charging over USB to be used in a commercial environment. I was opposed to doing it (as I don't want to be responsible for someone burning up a netbook USB port) so he bribed me. ;)

With less money soliciting, perhaps we'll see less MyRomIsTheSameAsTheRest, and more sharing of "how to do this for yourself." (Or, perhaps we won't. I don't know.) At the very least, I would hope it would give people less incentive of posting as many things as possible.

...but the OP's are usually SO pretty with lots of oversized pictures and banners! (Ever try to view one of those posts on a netbook tethered to a phone with only an EDGE connection? heh.)

I hope you won't mind if, at least while this thread is unspammed, we discuss in the open. I need other, non-engineer, people to read my suggestions and point out the flaws. Sometimes I get too obsessed with the puzzle and forget that the solution has to exist in the real world.

Thanks for listening

Gary
[About XDA developers] a.cid:
Ah well, I was waiting for a cue to post...

I had a suggestion to make with regards to the dev fora being used for dev discussion...

Why not have a discussion sticky (made by a mod) present in the original development section, where interested people can come forth for dev related discussions?

This way, people do have a place to just discuss various core problems with the device (and possible solutions), and also doesn't give any random person with 10 posts to just make up a thread in the name of "dev discussion"...

The mod can follow this thread, and if it seems that a grave issue would warrant a personal thread, then the mod can give permission for one to be made in the original dev fora...

"By the power vested in me, I now pronounce you, Man and Knife"
[About XDA developers] Fallen Spartan:
Well, to be slightly polite,....I've read your feedback, took it into consideration and decided ........what a load of bollocks
[About XDA developers] pulser_g2:
I laughed big time... So what do you mean then? I sense that every time I point out something we have changed due to user request, you'll still say you're not meaning that...

I think pretty much everything we do comes from an idea via a user request... We get them all day in this thread, other threads, and messages or emails...

So I'm now intrigued... What were you referring to, given that side "modifications" really covers everything...

In fact that I'm even reading and relying to this post suggests that clearly this user is mistaken... Why, if I wasn't wanting to see this stuff implemented, would I read it, let alone reply to it?
[About XDA developers] AtoZ0to9:
I'm sorry if I differ in opinion... But I'm entitled to it... I'll stop posting here if it causes such a fuss...

Not sent from your phone...
[About XDA developers] pulser_g2:
I think the issue is you want to come in here and make accusations that you then don't want to substantiate.

Had you replied to me saying, "actually I was meaning...", I think you might be respected more than for saying that wasn't what you meant...

Your answer shows you didn't really know what you meant... So I start to wonder if you genuinely have some feedback about this, or if you're just wanting to stir up and say things to try get people to agree with you...

Why don't we be specific... Yesterday people asked for clarification on the rules for OT on forums, they got that clarification fairly promptly... Therefore it's being taken on board.
[About XDA developers] AtoZ0to9:
I'm more referring to the decline of xda as a whole since I joined... It didn't used to be so volatile and condescending... And yes I realize as more and more users join it becomes harder for y'all to keep order... And y'all try your best to keep things under control... But unfortunately its not working... Its only getting worse...

Not sent from your phone...
[About XDA developers] Goku80:
just to change the subject a bit here...why is there on several forums there is OT threads and on some others they get shut down? i find it a very good idea to have one open on each mobile or tablet device forum open so that users, developers and others can let off some steam....but no some of your mods felt it does not belong there due to the fact it does not bring anything to the table...

which clearly it does cause it avoids of having people opening useless of stupid threads....but yet again since the closure of the thread now we see many more being opened again.....can we do something about this please..thanks:)
[About XDA developers] Fallen Spartan:
Ok, can you be a little more specific in how is is getting worse? Specific examples etc. Can you suggest or recommend anything to improve it?

I understand you are giving feedback, but it's hard for us to correct if we do not know example what you mean, plus we have been working hard to improve the XDA experience for all, I apologize if we do not meet your expectations
[About XDA developers] pulser_g2:
This was kinda discussed to the death yesterday, I think you can see the outcome back a few pages where some kind of final decision was reached.

The problem is you need to moderate different areas in different ways, due to different dynamics of the userbase.
[About XDA developers] The Archangel:
Each different forum has a team the monitors that phone(HTC gsm, Samsung international etc). Depending on the teams decision with ot they may close them down. Some teams allow them while others don't.

Does that help clarify the issue?
[About XDA developers] Goku80:
alright thanks....will have a read now:)
[About XDA developers] Fallen Spartan:
As Pulser said, this was discussed to death yesterday with the final outcome being this
[About XDA developers] pulser_g2:
Well... I wouldn't say it's a case of keeping order, more a case of what is acceptable. Actually, back in the "old XDA", people were even more hostile to beginners/n00bs. Maybe it wasn't as "volatile", but that is an immediate by-product of more people. And we've considered pretty much every option. We've considered closing registrations completely. We've considered invite-only registration. The trouble is nothing will actually FIX it.

I don't think there's a single option we won't consider. And when I say consider, I mean seriously... People being condescending is tbh more of an issue to do with the change in userbase - unfortunately it's too easy to afford a smartphone these days, and as a result the userbase is much younger and less mature when they arrive at XDA. Also, with more "mainstream" attention, sites like XDA are becoming the place to go for fixed and tweaks that your carrier or OEM can't manage to do...

That's not what the old XDA was about, but unfortunately it's something we have little ability to change, as we can't really control what the mainstream press do. What we can do is try to mitigate it. We're working on plenty of new things that are not listed, that might help to make the experience of getting help better... But it takes a long time to do on a site this size, as there's a lot to consider. Even the smallest change can cause wide-reaching consequences, so we need to do it right first time.
[About XDA developers] Goku80:
it does clarify the issue but still it is good to have them allowed i think one each forum.....but anyways if it has already been discussed might as well just leave it to that...thank you again guys for clarifying
[About XDA developers] K.A.:
Maybe 1 OT thread per moderator team? Common thread for all subforums who fall under a specific group of mods..
[About XDA developers] The Archangel:
There's also no harm in sending a message to your local mods and see how they stand on it.
[About XDA developers] AtoZ0to9:
I used to be a big helper in any forum I had the device... Still help some... But the general attitude and how others treat people have driven me away from the device forums for the most part... What happened to developers developing stuff and users helping other users? If you want specific examples I'll be digging so far back... Plus I'm on my phone and need sleep honestly... Just visit the s3 forums... Then take a look at the cappy forums... You'll see the difference... I'll have to think on it but I don't see a viable solution to it other than harsher consequences...

Not sent from your phone...
[About XDA developers] Goku80:
see that has been discussed already with the moderating team of the forum i use and one opened it then another one closed it and then the senior mod of that team decided to close it...and once brongogr sets his mind on something there is no changing his mind i have came to learn:D
[About XDA developers] undercover:
Errmmm, read this thread. This thread is the reason it's happening and you'll find the answer here.

And now my suggestion again.

Line between General and Q&A somewhat blended as of recently. Questions in general are disguised as opinions and opinions in q&a are disguised as questions.

Here's my suggestion. Do away with Q&A completely and just have a stickie in general like my thread for all Q&A. This way you'd get more people participate in one place and people would get their questions answered quicker, plus it's a great place to learn. When I was on Sensation, group of us learned a great deal about devices by helping people, and (surprise, surprise) most of them onto being RCs and even Mods (ganeshp, kohr-ah, mf2112, Jonny, kgs, malybru and some more). It helps when all that is consolidated so it's easy to follow. When certain problem arises that needs time to be worked out, we always recommended to start a separate thread, but it that rarely happened.

Here's how I see it work. In every new section mod opens a thread like that and then passes it onto a person willing to maintain it or just does it himself.

Here are 2 my threads. Also, some of you might have noticed few other people have taken on this idea and opened threads in their device forums (one s and galaxy y that I know of).

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1980135

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1443587

And read the op please. This is not to spoon feed people, primarily goal is to offer help and show them where to learn more about it. Also have a look at the polls.

Sent from my fridge. Make:LG Model:N4
[About XDA developers] Goku80:
gone the days xda use to be a helpful place mate.......problem is a lot more people get to know about this site and it is becoming more mainstream i think and the good old values tend to go out of the window if you ask me:(
[About XDA developers] AtoZ0to9:
Unfortunately my inability to not be blunt about things has misled you... Please read my recent posts...

Not sent from your phone...