yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pepoluan:
Please use at least v3. v2 and earlier are slightly too aggressive, they will consume your battery.

v3 and later had been tuned.

Latest flashable is v6.

That should be enough. The rngd binary can't start by itself. But if you want to be thorough, delete also /system/xbin/rngd

No differences between v3 to v6 with regards to its inner working; they all are using the same tuning.

-- Sent from a GT-I8150 running ICS perfectly well. F'U, Sams#!t --
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ugynok:
Hello!

Just testing Seeder since yesterday: My battery drains faster with Seeder 1.1 . Please make that "screen off-seeder stops" trick. :good:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] PieceKeepr:
For me the uninstall failed on the permission line and aborted.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Pfeffernuss:
Really?

"Set on boot does not work?:

It does, just that the app does not show it properly...it is a known bug...to really confirm, use the terminal emulator method above..."
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Elnareen:
About using /dev/urandom as input for /dev/random :

- LWN published an article one month ago on why this is a very bad idea (essentially, it makes the kernel thinks that he has entropy he has not, more explanations in the full article there: https://lwn.net/Articles/525459/)

- You can do it without even running some cron regurlarly, and that's why that's an even worse trap for the system administrator in Linux in general (quoted from the same article):

This is exactly what this application does, and a text book example of what should never be done

(so no, don't include that in ROMs by default or use it at all !)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] josewds:
Would you or anyone mind to show the appropriate way which achive the same effect of reduced lag or placebo?

Thanks a lot! :)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] GermainZ:
Technically speaking (about placebos in general), if it's offered as a placebo, it won't have any effect since you know it does nothing.

That being said, try writing a script that echoes crap to some file (e.g. make a file called lalala.test in /data and have a script do this: "while :; do echo 0 > /data/lalala.test; sleep 1; done;"). See if you notice a difference.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] t0mekk:
There is no difference, benchmark results are the same as before installing seeder.

IMO this app's hoax
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] hoholee12:
this isnt related to benchmarks:)

I'm the real Lag Doctor hmph.:cool:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] t0mekk:
I didn't see any improved smoothnees whatsoever.

So is there any empirical way to prove this app has any impact on our devices?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Pantherx12:
Find an app that consistently lags on your device and see if the seeder fixes it!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] zombiefly:
thanks for your qualified input. obviously you know what you are doing, benchmarking for a ui improvement.

feel free to wander off, don't let the door hit you on the way out... byeeeee!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] sliverus:
Just installer seeder on my Nexus S i9020a with stock 4.1.2 and definitely noticed a significant improvement in performance. I have never used any apps that speed up devices, so this was first for me. Would recommend
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pepoluan:
Not really.

Benchmarks doesn't exercise the code paths affected by rngd.

Rather, it's the small but perceptible lags of the UI, which benchmarks doesn't test.

To complicate matters further, there are a HUGE variation of Android phones out there. Some see improvements, others don't.

Merely stating what your device is (and what ROM you are using) is enough; throwing some blanket statements is not helpful.

-- Sent from a GT-I8150 running ICS perfectly well. F'U, Sams#!t --
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] rmagruder:
You know, I've seriously had it with these posts. If anyone will even read a sampling of the last 185 pages of posts, they will see that the issue of whether this is visible in benchmarks has been discussed to DEATH!

This is not a benchmark-able enhancement. All it has to do with is lag. PURE and simple. Does the device stutter/lag during scrolling, opening apps, switching tasks, etc. Any benchmark is unlikely to provide any illumination into this.

I'm normally pretty patient with SOME repetition in threads, but it's getting ridiculous here, and getting even worse when ignorant people then take it upon themselves to pronounce something a 'hoax'.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] xPr0metheus:
When I flash seeder_v6 and type su and seeder to look how it works it first show the values between 2000++ and 4000++ but when my phone is running some time and I look again it shows values around 100 and just every 10 times a higher value around 2000++ to 4000++... whats wrong here?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] :
*sigh* Benchmark don't test the device as whole - it only merely perform preemptive loop test which rngd won't be there physically or otherwise (that's strictly a kernel service - correct me if I am wrong here), and half of benchmark apps out there are actually useless.

(I only will depend on one that accurately display MIPS/GIPS and MFLOPS/GFLOPS benchmark, not that silly score system.)

In other word, seeder will only affect the certain services' requests for the entropy seed pool - raising it to 4,096 so there's no request competitions. Get it? Competition. GPU services will tend to be the first to get hit with request competition, thus GUI lags.

Now, let's drop that benchmark crap and get on with the program.

Sent from the jar of Jelly Beans
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Mettafox:
Work well for me.

Values always between 3500 and 4000, sometimes, going down to 2000 and going up again.

My device is ZTE Blade.

I always have lag in the widgets drawer, but with this app, the lag disappeared.

So maybe the patch doesn't work very well in your devices.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Stromma:
As far as benchmark goes I've did a test in Quadrant Standard a couple of months ago, so I've downloaded it for fun today to see if there was a difference. Both tests are made after cleaning cash and reboots.

First test 2012-09-22

Phone setup: Three screens and only one widget.

Battery Status: 95%

Result:

Second test 2013-01-08

Phone setup: Seven screens, loads of crap and widgets, running tweaked MultipleWindows etc.

Battery Status: 65%, charging.

Result:

// Strömma
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] DarkStryder:
if you want to remove all files completely delete :

-/system/etc/init.d/23seeder

-/system/xbin/rngd
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] adrynalyne:
Despite reports and explanations on how this is a placebo, I tried it.

I have low framerate on my Note 2 when scrolling widgets (aka lag to the average androider). Turned on Seeder.

I still have low framerate ;)

The OP gave it a shot. I can't fault him/her for trying. Google engineers said themselves that Android will never be iOS smooth (paraphrasing).
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] rmagruder:
My Nexus 7 did not have any files in init.d, but it did have rngd, so I deleted it. Hm... What about

Busybox sysctl -e -w kernel.random.read_wakeup_threshold

Do I need to set those back to some other values, as well? (Because i set them in terminal to something like 1367 and twice that for write)

EDIT: I just rebooted, ran su and the command to see the current values for these and they are read:64, write:128.

I will leave the tablet alone for a bit to see if I start getting lagginess I had thought was gone. If I do, I'll see if I can get a video reproduction before/after seeder.

Thanks,

Randy

Randy
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ChronoReverse:
Really.

My original intention for asking for a video is so that the OP (who again, has been open about everything unlike a lot in this thread) could post video proof right in the first post. I was giving instructions both in this thread and over PM on how to systematically prove performance improvements in such a way that it would be undeniable. This was nearly 100 pages ago.

Nobody could do that. So I decided to increase the sharpness of my tone so that people would get mad enough to make a video to prove it working. 50 pages later and still nothing.

You know what's really rhetoric? Extreme resistance to the idea that you're under confirmation bias and the placebo effect to the point you're even refusing to render proof.

As a comparison, I went and BORROWED a Galaxy Nexus and Xperia U to test this app fully intending to record the results if I had a positive one. Of course, I'm crippled by the fact I don't know what actually would improve and how because despite asking a couple times, all I'd get is vague responses like "the occasional lag disappears so it's hard to show".

This from the original claims of "it's a brand new phone!", "my phone feels like it has double the cores and RAM now!", "apps load instantly now", "task switching is instant now" (the last two were the ones I tried to test for) . All evaporates when details are asked for. Is it a wonder there's cynicism?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] chrischoi:
So to stop using it, I just have to uninstall and reboot correct?

I think my battery life went down after putting this on. It doesn't install anything?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] lordvincent 90:
Just wanted to add this to the current conversation.

Note- I am not currently for or against this tweak. I *think* I saw a tiny increase in performance on my galaxy prevail... but not enough for me to be able to say definitively that I wasn't suffering from confirmation bias. I'm staying optimistic... but until I can see some hard evidence I'm going to watch from the sidelines

And with regard to this comment:

(Just sayin)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] atxbang56:
it's unbelivable to see how a tweak (useless or not) can create such a "war" between members.....so sad

Sent from my pretty cool Nexus S

Phone : Google Nexus S i9023

ROM : Helly Bean Nightlies (Android 4.2.1) + BrainMaster Seeder Tweaks

Kernel : Marmite v7.2.3 by Bedalus @1096 MHz (FSB OC)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] xPr0metheus:
I read something some pages before about devices always running smoother with new roms and that this cannot be

I would say it can be just because if you are using an os over a time it gets slower (as a pc for example) don't know because of the registry or too many files or blabla but when you reinstall your pc it's faster because of a clean os why should there be a difference on mobile devices?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] zombiefly:
this thread. search? the app does something and people are investigating exactly what is happening. That's all the OP has claimed. If they'd have come out and said it does absolutely nothing then fair enough, but that plainly isn't the case. for whatever reason, this IS improving people's UI experience.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] poyensa:
Whilst a minor amount of off-topic posting may be overlooked, the general rule is your posts / threads must be relevant to the Forum / thread in which you are posting. Limits are done in this thread. Please use report button instead. Thanks!

Any posts not related to the app will be removed and infraction issued accordingly. Thanks for your collaboration.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] casouzaj:
I installed the apk last week on my 2 y.o. green lensed Motorola Defy. I'm sure its UI has got better in general, but I don't do gaming. Nevertheless, yesterday I installed it on my son's XT316 phone. Prior to turning Seeder on, he simply couldn't play anything at all, due to huge ammounts of laggings. After turning it on, the phone has simply become something else. He is currently playing Fruit Ninja and Angry Birds just flawlessly on that tiny screen. Just unbelieveable!!!

Thanks a ton to the OP!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] lambgx02:
Hey casouzaj,

Since you've got two devices, if you have a minute, can you make a video showing gaming on the XT316 with Seeder on and off?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] bryan314:
Just trying to get this straight in my own head. So?

Normally what happens is processA calls /dev/random. /dev/random runs out of entropy and blocks until entropy is refilled. processA locks up.

This is known to happen more often on headless servers since the main source of entropy is mouse/keyboard events which headless servers lack.

This scenario is the source of the Android/Dalvik criticisms. Since Dalvik doesn't call /dev/random directly this can't be the cause of lag.

Instead, the more likely case is the problem is coming from the feed entropy end. As before some process is waiting for /dev/random, but this directly doesn't lag the system.

Somewhere on the android/dalvik layer there's a function that looks like

process_some_hardware_inputs()

{

get_input_from_hardware()

process_inputs()

//for some reason the following takes a long time

if (/dev/random needs entropy)

shove hardware inputs into entropy

}

And then, when the keyboard, touchscreen, disk io, or some-other hardware gets processed the second half of the above function gets triggered, repeatedly, takes forever, and lags the system.

The OPs program constantly feeds the entropy pool so when hardware 'something' get processed the second half of the function never gets triggered and thus no lag?

Right?

bryan
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] debork:
Yes. See:

https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=42265

'touch' lag: Comment 114, 128, 162

'load' lag: Comment 107 (https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/1745611/) in conjunction with 114 (disk seek is one of the entropy sourcse)

So:

Entropy depleted unnecessarily when loading binaries

Particularly on older/slower devices, the lag during the process of entropy pool mixing hardware (shoving entropy, if you will) seems to be nontrivial in context of UI experience.

Dalvik in gingerbread and below actually reads from blocking /dev/random?????

Full pool from OP's seeder, problem #2 and #3 (if it exists) is eliminated. #1 becomes irrelevant.

Note: randomize_va_space actually results in calls to get_random_int() which does not deplete pool. At least on my samsung kernel. Disabling this would not help.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] FcoEnrique:
The google devs have a really interesting point on the last 10 posts with the input_event() in drivers/input/input.c :fingers-crossed:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] CBConsultation:
Correct me if I'm wrong but Dalvik is created when using custom Roms. Not stock. So if these people are using a stock Rom, then Dalvik should play no role.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] nailz420:
Correcting - read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalvik_(software).
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] CBConsultation:
I mis-worded what I was trying to say. I'll re-write shortly.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] lambgx02:
For anyone interested, I just attached version 1.2, which includes patches to suspend rngd while the device screen is off. This should prevent any battery drain while the device is not in use.

Also included are more robust superuser and process checks, UI cleanups, and a new icon (thanks Nathanel)!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] sheraro:
mmm ... seeder 1.2 tells me that there's a problem with root access , but superuser gives the popup of providing root to seeder ! 1.1 worked for me before ...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] lambgx02:
Interesting. It actually tests to see if the process is running as it should be, not specifically if it was able to get root access.

Are you able to adb shell into your device (or use a terminal) to run:

ps | grep rngd
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Pantherx12:
I posted quite a while back that a lot of my apps have improved loading times* phone,camera,messages,contacts and google now all take half the time to load up. All went from taking 7 seconds to load to 3 seconds to load :]

* When all UI elements are displayed.

Sorry I don't have a camera to prove this, but the difference is big enough to not be a placebo effect eh?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] sheraro:
yes :

root 7337 1 25304 344 ffffffff 00000000 /data/data/com.lcis.seeder/rngd (and it's repeating)

also pgrep rngd gave me a value in 1.1 version (entropy_avail also)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] mw86:
Thank you I will uninstall 1.1. and try 1.2. Thanks!

GS3 L710 4.2.1 AOSP Kt747 2.1Ghz ROW/Ktoonservative *Tapatalk
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Stromma:
v1.2 works just as good as v1.1 did on my Samsung Galaxy S3 (root, stock j.b. 4.1.2). No boot, SU or other problems.

Thanks :)

// Strömma
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] lambgx02:
Can you cat /data/rngd.pid?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] sheraro:
I rebooted after installing 1.2 over 1.1 and entered to seeder and saw that it is activated (runned pgrep rngd with success) , if I desactivate it and try to re-activate it I have the error message , but it seems rngd is still running (again runned pgrep rngd with success)

no such file or directory ...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ChronoReverse:
Well, this is exactly what is needed.

The only thing is, did you systematically test this?

Because the app is so easy to use, it's a trivial matter to turn it off, wait 10 seconds (for entropy_avail to dip back down to 300ish) and then load the apps again to see if the lag has returned. Then turn on the app again, wait a few seconds and reload apps a third time to see if the lag is reduced.

Ideally, if this yields a repeatable positive result, the next test would be to use the SYSCTL method to increase entropy_avail and see if it has the same effect. There's so much that can be done to improve this and narrow down why it works if someone (who this works for) would just systematically test this.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] wjcarpenter:
Certainly for my phone, 10 seconds would do next to nothing. My lag tends to build up slowly over a couple of days. Seeder dissipates it. If I turn Seeder off, I have to wait a while for the lag to build back up.

(My suspicion has always been that it's some particular app or couple of apps that give me the overall lag, but so far I haven't narrowed down the pattern.)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] playjun:
thank you...:good:

keep up the good work
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] mw86:
Couldn't we just disable seeder and set sysctl back to normal and run that entropy monitor app to find the biggest drains on entropy. Then test the lag on the biggest draining app or action on our phone with no help from systctrl and or seeder. Then test with it and see if there is a large improvement in latency.

Finding the biggest drain on entropy may make testing go faster for all of us. I can not touch anything and usually entropy levels off but i simply slide my status bar down and it uses entropy. If such a simple task like that uses entopy its no wonder keeping entropy filled is showing improvement.

GS3 L710 4.2.1 AOSP Kt747 2.1Ghz ROW/Ktoonservative *Tapatalk
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] lambgx02:
Can you try terminating the app from Settings->Apps->Seeder->Force stop, restarting, and turning it on again?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] sheraro:
the app isn't present in my list of running apps nor in cashed ones ! but I guess the daemon is running as pgrep find nrgd ...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] lambgx02:
Well that's .. interesting. :)

Can you try re-installing?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] mw86:
I cant help woth your current install issue but for me i had no problems by doing the following. I hit force stop on 1.1 in settings apps and hit clear data after it reappears in a sec and uninstall. Reboot then install the 1.2 apk and I use super su and granted rights after opening and all has run fine. I turn on and check apply at boot and it has all ran and is running successful. Not sure if that helps anyone...

GS3 L710 4.2.1 AOSP Kt747 2.1Ghz ROW/Ktoonservative *Tapatalk
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Forcelord50:
Virus?

After installing 1.1 this morning I noticed a slight increase in speed loading up fresh programs.

Strangely, about 6 hours later a virus began taking over my phone and pushing buttons every other second on my screen. Since restoring to my backup this strange behavior has gone away. Nothing else was changed on my phone today. I assume it is a virus vs remote control due to the fact that I was able to activate airplane mode but the random tapping kept occurring.

Thoughts?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] sheraro:
I uninstalled it , rebooted , installed again , opened (granted su) , checked "on boot" , checked "activate" (error message) , pgrep rngd return result , rebooted , opened (granted su) and found "activate" was checked :p , so I will leave it right like that ! the important thing is that fluidity is here , the deamon is apparently running and my entropy is around 3970
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] mw86:
This app isn't a virus. It can lower security possibly in the random number generation process. Perhaps you had a virus on your phone and you enabled the app and somehow allowed a real virus to do something on your phone. In all likelihood though the issue you had was unrelated to a virus. The Seeder app may have caused your issue but random presses on the ui you didn't perform seems unlike anything any user has posted here.

GS3 L710 4.2.1 AOSP Kt747 2.1Ghz ROW/Ktoonservative *Tapatalk
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Splaktar:
Sounds like you were using the phone while plugged into an unstable connection (either current or cable connection). Known T989 issue.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ChronoReverse:
This is still useful. If you open the app 2-3 times before turning on Seeder to demonstrate the lag, then run Seeder and show that the lag immediately is gone, that's a strong positive result (although not the strongest it can be).
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] desalesouche:
would like to tell you i included your v6 tweak in my project...credit given

see here http://www.modaco.com/topic/360188-cm72-mpengine9seeder-v6-ext4-no-lag/

thank you.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] cocchiararo:
hats off to you, counter placebo ? :P

--

Lets see if 1.2 does something/nothing on my Nexus 4 (i was unable to notice a benefit before, but i saw more battery drain, specially on my moring trip to work, where i normally don't "use" my phone, but it can't deepsleep cause i listen to music, and i use a BT headsets).

Still haven't got the chance to meet my little brother and try this on his defy, or the counter test :P
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] casouzaj:
Sure! The shooting is not very good, since it was done with my Defy, running one of Quarx's JB builds. Besides, it has not been edited. Sorry about that! Anyway, my son is playing Angry Birds Seasons. The Youtube link is here. During the first half, Seeder (already updated to 1.2) is turned on. The other half has it turned off. The difference is huge, don't you think? Lots of stuttering during the last half, mainly when the dragon passes by...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] desalesouche:
link is not good ...check it no video