yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] fylim:
Just started testing. Regarding the possible batt drain, just wondering if the seeding frequency needs to be that frequent? What determines this frequency? How does Android does it by default? Reactively I.e when it runs out?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] :
Tried it on a decrepit Android phone, Samsung Galaxy Precedent, and there was a HUGE difference between laggy GUI response to nearly buttery.

Sent from the jar of Jelly Beans
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ttabbal:
This is running great on my gnex with paranoid android 2.99.8. It makes a noticeable difference in smoothness. What needs to be done to the ROM or kernel to increase the pool size?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Kurre:
There's a patch/diff file in the OP. That should give a hint to a dev :)

Sent from my slimbeaned GNex :)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] desalesouche:
hi if you mean in v3. did you add the binary in etc/init.d/? rngd should be in system/xbin/ ? correct me if i am wrong...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
Already told him...he placed it wrongly...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] sdwise:
what about the security risks this poses?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] RyomaEchizen:
Great job!! :)

Enviado desde mi ST25a usando Tapatalk 2
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] WarlockSyno:
This signifacantly increased the speeds of my OG Droid. Now it's actually usable!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] M3wThr33:
After the success on my Evo 3D (ICS) I just did it on my Thrill 4G (Gingerbread) and wife's Photon 4G (Gingerbread) and those are much faster now, too. (Script, not APK)

Originally the swagbucks app would take about 2-3 seconds to change categories and trigger the slide-in tween. Now it's instant.

So the AOSP devs may not be using that random, but it seems every other Android app in the world was.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] TheBlackWolf:
Sorry :p was so excited... Uploading new with correction
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] LTE:
Strange I get 64... very weird...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
That is if you are using the systl tweak by zepplinrox...if you are using seeder, it does not matter...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] RyomaEchizen:
Run at boot is not working. After reboot values back to 64-256. If i turn on again values are 4000-4200.

I flash the zip file with CWM.

Enviado desde mi ST25a usando Tapatalk 2
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ph33zy:
Subscribing
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] xaueious:
For people who think that seeder is not actually placebo, please compare your results based on the same CPU frequency.

OP's solution is an userspace daemon that runs as a service, effectively increasing your CPU frequency compared to when the daemon is not running.

Make sure you are measuring results properly by locking your CPU frequency before testing.

I suspect that all this 'fix' is doing for most of you, is kicking up the CPU frequency every second.

A lot of phones have CPU governors that run somewhat conservatively to save power.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
Please...read my post from my signature...does your phone supports init.d?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] FDisk80:
There is a button for that on top right.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] SubwayJrd:
I watched my cpu frequency times in state with cpu spy (phone idling). Dead ringer for Seeder turned off. That isn't what's happening. Pretty easy to test yourself too.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] danobook:
I type pgrep rngd

how good or bad is 1326 after the reboot .... 5230 before reboot :angel:

comments:confused:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] jokkir:
Tried out this app via .apk today. Battery life seems to be the same, not sure if I notice any difference performance wise though I'm not 100% sure if it's running or not since the app seems to be giving me the wrong information. I also can't see if it's running or not since the way to check via Terminal Emulator doesn't work for me for some reason.

I forgot to screenshot my battery usage but it seems normal as usual.

I'm on a Nexus S on the last CM10 nightly before it was moved to CM10.1 on mermite kernel overclock to 1092mhz, smartassv2 and CFQ.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] xaueious:
That stat won't necessarily show all behavior. I'm not sure how you can see Nexus 7 Tegra 3 companion core activity, for example.

Not sure what your sample size.

How much of an effect the daemon has on CPU freq also depends on the device it runs on.

There are too many variables right now to make the types of claims OP has made.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] M3wThr33:
Nope. I used a script to simply change the threshold variable and that alone sped up my devices. No services running. No wasted battery.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Mediocrates:
Fast as hell GNote2 now, thx for the post!!!!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] xaueious:
Ya, that would be the proper way to do it. I am not denying that this can have some positive effect in some scenarios, but I'm not expecting anywhere near the '90%' of Android's lag as claimed.

Running the daemon is not a good solution.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] desalesouche:
did someone try ths way? which effect? http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=36226518&postcount=331
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] txitxi2004:
> $ adb shell su -c 'for f in /dev/*random; do echo -n \$f; fuser \$f | wc -w; done'

dev/random: 0

dev/urandom: 32
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pepoluan:
Not all Android phones are the same, unlike iPhone (of a certain model) or Windows phones.

Many phones have bloatware pre-installed. And custom kernel makers might ignore parts not interesting for them.

That said, what you're saying is correct. I'll try to test 3 scenarios (rngd tuned, sysctl tweak, no tweaks). Still thinking how to create a common, reproducible situation where apple-to-apple comparison can be made.

One important caveat/disclaimer : my 'test harness', so to speak, will fit only my combination of phone+ROM+kernel. It might or might not be applicable for others.

But at least I can rest the placebo question for good :cool:

-- Sent from a GT-I8150 running ICS perfectly well. F'U, Sams#!t --
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Lost.soul:
Hello,

First thanks for this, it works great.

Now regarding the apk, I installed it, and whenever I was trying to turn it on or set it on boot, the changes were not persistent (IE: It didn't remain ON)

So what I did was got the rngd binary file copied it to /system/xbin and chmod it and was able to start it (And verify through ps) and then created an init.d script to start it at boot time.

Testing this and on a S3 the changes are actually noticeable !

Great work :D
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] rymngh:
Will this work in my Note 2? The entropy stays below 250. I flashed seeder v4 and I can't see any changes even seeder is turned on
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pepoluan:
Doesn't matter, as long as you have a number larger than 10.

That only check for one time. You have to put it in a loop to capture the transient processes.

Remember: /dev/random blocks; apps accessing it will do an fopen, read some bits, and close it again. /dev/urandom is non-blocking; no problem keeping it open.

-- Sent from a GT-I8150 running ICS perfectly well. F'U, Sams#!t --
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] mwalt2:
What script are you using? The one by zep with the sysctl 1376? I would just as soon not have a service running every minute :)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Syntaxer:
Tried init.d script and phone seems to be responding faster :)

But

busybox sysctl -n kernel.random.read_wakeup_threshold

Prints 64 ...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] kinfauns:
Thread cleaned

Off topic bickering removed. If there's a problem or you spot a questionable post, report it to the moderators and otherwise ignore it. Don't become part of the problem by flaming each other. Please respect the other participants of the discussion and keep the thread on topic.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] bone069:
Same for me... Should the sysctl script be implemented?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
You will only get higher values if you are using zep's method...if you are using seeder, it does not matter...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Sarcen:
Sleep/Screen-Off

I don't dare use this on my GNex with it waking every second. Add the screen-off-disable and I will happily donate. :good:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] RiceDie:
Installed the APK on my tablet, will see how it shows
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] swedkg:
Could be a coincidence, compass and GPS working fine on my N7 3G.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] kamaliqwan:
can someone guide to use this?

there's 3 files attached...so i should installed the apk, and what should i do with other 2 files?

sorry for this noob question :)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Complot12:
+1
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] taomorpheus:
After one day on my Defy+, I can confirm that it's another world :D

I've created a mirror thread on the defy+ forum in order to test the Seeder on other ROMs and get some extra feedback!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] dacdd:
Cm10 evo late didn't notice a difference at all
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Dovidhalevi:
Moderator: Please use good detergent :)

Just waded though umteen pages of the same stuff over and over to get bit useful information. Yuk!

For everyone:

1. The apk's UI has a bug and does not show that the daemon is actually working.

2. One needs root to use the apk. There may be alternative means to get a script into /data/local/userinit.d but I seem to need su to do that as well.

3. Placebo or not? If the seeder keeps the average CPU freq higher, no. However, this is not its purpose.

4. Phone does seem quicker, but I have no idea why 3900 entropy has anything to do with how fast apps come up, how fast a webpage loads, or anything else that does not/SHOULD not need random numbers to work.

My inclination is that the sysctl idea is the best solution so will probably add that to my sysctl tweaks and turn off the apk. Compare.

All this is very subjective, at best. But hay, my daughter just sprung for an SIII because of growing laginess in games on her old Galaxy S. That phone was no slouch so maybe there is something real here ... for games, not for how quickly the home screen repaints. Maybe I am wrong.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] txitxi2004:
Where is the link for latest version. Is it version 5?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] D33PO:
Here you go – it's version 6! :cowboy:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
Thats the apk...I think he meant the zip?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] txitxi2004:
Nevermind, found one.

If anybody else need it

http://www.androidfilehost.com/?fid=9390248398092763238
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] D33PO:
Well, in that case... BAM!

:laugh:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] txitxi2004:
Damn it, just flashed version 5 lol:mad:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] NicoCaldo:
I've LG p690 with modified Cyano mod 7. Can i install it with no problem?

And where i can found all the necessary file update at the latest version?

Inviato dal mio LG-P690 con Tapatalk 2
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
It is ok...just flash it over...:)

---------- Post added at 05:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:14 PM ----------

Read this: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=36252773#post36252773
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ghul21:
Just install and testing :D

So i think this are correct values 3000/ 4000+ ??
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] lordlad:
not sure whether is it related or placebo....but before this, i tried google earth and navigate to a 3D heavy city like vatican city or New york and my nexus 7 will be struggling to render all the 3D buildings..........but now seems much smoother, it's not 60fps or even 30fps (dream on!), but i think it's now about 10-15 fps when i navigate on those cities versus the single fps i am getting back then....again, not sure whether is it placebo or the fix doing its magic..
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] mixtapes08:
:eek: Man what happen to this thread. It used to be quiet and enjoyable thread 2 days ago.. Now it's almost a disaster. Lol

@Ryuinferno dude can you link your post on your sig so we know where to find your zips. Just saying

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] solrakk6:
very nice work!

a question.. if i want uninstall the apk i hope this will revert my default value?!

yes or not?!

thx
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] sonnhy:
OMG, i remember this thread when there were only two or three people that ususally come here to work on it..

Now it's over 80 pages in about 2 days.. LOL
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] jetsilver2002:
Phandroid brought me here... :o
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
It is already in my sig...you can't see cause you are using phone I guess...:p

Worse still, a lot are not helping at all...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Voda_Smart_2:
@solrakk6

You can hope that will uninstall all but I am not so sure about this:

I installed files one by one on Nexus 7, after few reboot I deleted because nothing improved but I am not able to delete this file:

entropy_avail from /proc/sys/kernel/random/

I tryed to delete from TWRP -> file manager .... but still no chance to delete this one.

any idea ?

thx
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] lukehutch:
Confirmation bias

I'm shocked that there are that many things even *reading* from /dev/random... and I'm also shocked that a sufficiently large number of things supposedly reading from /dev/random would be blocking the UI thread in the first place. Think about it, what need would you have for /dev/random while switching or launching apps? Or while switching activities? Put more frankly, I'm dubious as to how much the purported effect is real, and how much it is due to confirmation bias (see "confirmation bias" on Wikipedia).

It gets worse though. You don't need to feed /dev/random into /dev/urandom, you can just periodically call the ioctl that raises the current entropy estimate, "spoofing" the estimate. You have to be root to do this, i.e. you will need a rooted device, and rngd will have to be setuid root. But if it's not, feeding /dev/urandom into /dev/random won't change the current entropy estimate at all! From the /dev/random article on Wikipedia: "It is also possible to write to /dev/random. This allows any user to mix random data into the pool. Non-random data is harmless, because only a privileged user can issue the ioctl needed to increase the entropy estimate."

I haven't trawled through all 84 pages of comments, but I haven't yet seen any mention of rngd being setuid root, or of the phone needing to be a rooted device. So if this daemon is not already calling the ioctl to raise the entropy estimate after feeding /dev/urandom into /dev/random, then the observed effect *is*, in fact, 100% confirmation bias.

Sorry you got your hopes up, guys. I say the chance of this being bogus is quite high.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
There is an uninstaller if you used Seeder_v6...and if you are using the apk, an uninstall will do...that file you are trying to delete is generated by the kernel on every boot...so it is impossible to do so...;)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] mixtapes08:
Now i know thanks :thumbup:

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] eoerl:
Tested on HTC Sensation / CM10 (Bruce's excellent rom, JB 4.1.2), it does seem to have some effect on Trebuchet's micro-lag. This Rom is already very responsive, so that's not earth shattering, but there seems to be a perceptual change. Placebo ? There's been reports of improved gmaps rendering though, i don't see any difference, as expected somewhat.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] RoachTeo:
Search it!

Do a search! http://lcis-apps.dyndns.org/Seeder/ ;)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] NicoCaldo:
I have installed with non-cwm method and when i do the command

Watch -n 1 cat /proc/ecc.

I have number between 100++ and 200++

Inviato dal mio LG-P690 con Tapatalk 2
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] clshack:
I have try it on my i9000 with android 4.1.2

This app work fine.

VERY GOOD !
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
Weird...does your ROM supports init.d? And why don't you use the extended menu by typing

su
seeder

to turn it on/off and monitor?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] NicoCaldo:
You have reason! The seeder was turned off. And now i have turned on and the value is right!

But i have a question. What is init.d

Inviato dal mio LG-P690 con Tapatalk 2
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] OmegaBlaze:
I have an Epic 4g Touch and confirm this app is running. Now, does it actually reduce lag? Not sure.

But i'll run it on every rom i install because tweaks always help, and never hurt.= ]

Keep us updated! :good:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
Read this: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1933849
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ekerazha:
Exactly... why should the system keep reading random data? There are very particular situations where you need highly randomized data.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Linux4kix:
Quick Observations

Reading all the speculation last night so I decided to take a quick look at this this morning. Here are my quick and dirty observations.

1) on my various ARM and i686 machines the entropy_pool never gets above 192. Watching it you will see it rise and then quickly fall to 128, never above never below. Changing read_wakeup_threshold will increase the top number of the entropy pool, however that value is not supposed to dictate this behaviour, pool_size is which defaults 4096.

2) Of all my machines only my x86_64 machine will fill entropy_pool up to 4096 (or there about) as it should. I do get the odd behaviour that then reading entropy_pool causes the value to drop by 100 after each read. Moving the usb mouse will then fill this back up.

3) At first I thought it may be a general randomness generation problem caused by the touchscreen drivers not causing input randomness, much like was a problem on headless servers running SSL back in the day. Plugging in a USB mouse did not allow me to replenish the pool at all.

This seems like a 32-bit vs 64-bit issue to me, however I don't have definitive proof. Regardless the entropy gathering/accounting in the kernel seems to be broken. I will bring this to the LKML over the weekend unless someone else beats me to it.

Speculation on how this fix could possibly be causing a better user experience. As the Google ticket states, all of the current userspace processes use /dev/urandom. This is a non-blocking process however /dev/urandom does initially try to get its data from the same entropy_pool the /dev/random uses, and if that pool doesn't have enough random data it will generate its own. All these functions that check and generate pseudo random data are wrapped in locks, and my guess is that we are getting lock contention slowing down userspace randomness gathering, rather than blocking on the entropy pool. This fix alleviates the problem by building up a randomness pool when there is no contention, so calls to /dev/urandom happily grab needed randomness from the pool and sending it along.

The lock contention my be exacerbated by the fact that x86 and x86_64 both have arch optimized randomness generation functions that urandom uses when the entropy pools are depleted while arm does not. The un-optimized randomness generation and fewer locks in the codepath that runs when using the /dev/random entropy pools could explain why simply linking /dev/random to /dev/urandom doesn't provide the same results. I also wouldn't expect benchmarks to have a problem because most of them aren't forking processes, opening SSL connections, or doing other actions that would require randomness.

Sorry this is thrown together so sloppily today is a really busy day for me. I figured someone else that had more time may want to dig deeper into this.

-l4k

Also don't forget that the entropy pools are used by kernel drivers/internals as well as feeding userspace.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] zdesirehtc:
How is Seeker on battery usage?

(Fair warning - I am a beginner with rooted Androids)

I downloaded the Seeker app on my HTC Desire Z running Elite Mod. However, I found that after a few hours of usage my battery dropped dramatically. (I know my typical usage and I have a 3600 mA battery pack). The battery usage suggests high consumption by standby and idling.

Anyone else experience that? Is there a way to reduce battery consumption?

Thanks!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pulser_g2:
The issue is that these performance gains seem to come from holding the CPU in a higher state- I think that the actual improvement is a byproduct of the means of applying the fix - the fix itself shouldn't give this performance boost.

EVERYTHING I've read is indicative of it being due to CPU scaling - someone said their Note (using Exynos 4210) doesn't have home button lag on turning the screen on - this happens when the phone isn't sleeping fully. I therefore suggest that if you want to test this properly, you should also do a test with a locked CPU clock, and see if it's faster...

Most likely it will be identical, and you can decide between forcing up your clock speed (and having 10 minutes of battery life), or using the regular clock-speed governors and accepting a little bit of lag when ramping up.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] zdesirehtc:
That's a great answer! Thanks for clearing that up for me!

Battery life is a key consideration for me (what with running 3G and data heavy applications throughout the day). However, I will check and see if things changes in spite of locking the CPU clock.

Thanks again!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] NicoCaldo:
I have installed all and when i check the value it so right (3000++ 4000++)

I have read a logo of time in this post the folder sys/dev/unrandom or random. But i haven't no one! Only block and char

Inviato dal mio LG-P690 con Tapatalk 2
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] demon-knight:
Got to agree with the above statement, on the testing I have done its using around 10% battery every 2 hours so in this instance im taking it off my phone.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] black_bottom:
"my performance" in a video

last night I installed the apk and set it "on". I use CM10 kang with a HTC sensation. in my video you can see how fast some apps open.

enjoy :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckdq2CR0bFs&feature=youtu.be