yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ChronoReverse:
I've read through the majority of the posts and I'd say the Skyrocket, I717, GS3 and the Note2 almost certainly doesn't benefit from the report backs.

But some people with the GNex say they see a benefit so it's not just hardware capabilities (the Skyrocket is slightly weaker than the GNex IIRC) assuming this works.

Again, considering one of the purported benefits is fast task switching, this is something that is VERY easy to make a video of to put on Youtube.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] MrBlackbriar:
DELETE, wrong thread, haha
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] a-id:
And what about zeppelinrox method? It really works and its effect is almost the same what Seeder gives. It works, but don't cause more CPU using... What will you say? Why does it work? Right now at my device?

Отправлено с моего GT-I9000 через Tapatalk
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] e-motion:
I have now installed this on my Nexus 7 and Galaxy Nexus, both running a different version of AOKP, and the effect is noticeable : apps load faster, switching between opened apps is almost instantaneous. Whoever claims this is a placebo effect needs to get their eyes and/or mind checked.

I have quite frankly no idea how this is achieved but all I know is that changing my governor to performance never resulted in such an improvement, and neither did overclocking. What those 2 things sure did result in however is a lower battery life. It is still too early for me to tell if battery life is shortened with Seeder, but so far I don't notice a difference in that department.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] wtr_dhd:
Do you need a rooted phone for this ? Would like to test it on my non-rooted Gnex with 4.2.1 and my gf's non-rooted Xperia U with 4.0.4..
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] timmygadget:
Yes your phones need to be rooted
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] SubwayJrd:
If you glance at the instructions in the OP, yes, you must have root.

As noted earlier in this thread, this is a Linux level hack, so it takes place on the Linux base that Android is built on. You can't even install the needed files without being root (yes, you could install the APK, but it wouldn't run, as it needs root to push the rngd file onto your phone and launch it).
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] a-id:
You need root. Anyway.

Отправлено с моего GT-I9000 через Tapatalk
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Mrozik1990:
Ok guys.

I installed it on my Arc S with Ultimate HD ROM and.. seems it works o.O Maybe screens has slow lag directly after reeboot, but I see the difference on gallerry app. I have over 500 photos and after reboot they were loaded after ~30 seconds. Now it loads directly. Is it because of this app? o.O
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] nowster:
The most likely explanation for this phenomenon, apart from CPU governors, is it's preventing the phone CPU from going into its deeper sleep states.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ChronoReverse:
Press the button to turn off the app and open the gallery again.

If there's a 30 second difference, Youtube video to show everyone.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] shadesofb1ack:
Does anyone know how the performance of Seeeder compares to the Linaro Toolchain (ROM and Kernel) or if this causes any issues when used together?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] dexterdre:
Enviado desde mi GT540 usando Tapatalk 2
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] polobunny:
No issue and no actual links one with the other. Linaro Toolchain > how the app is compiled/assembled/linked/debugged etc.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] canis999:
I do not think so. There is an improvement in the way the device works when it is constantly being used, not only when you wake it up.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Mrozik1990:
I killed gallery app in TasKiller and it loaded 500 photos immediatelly. I don't have camera to redcord the diffrence but it seems that works perfectly lol. Amazing :laugh:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] debork:
https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=42265#c114

Steven Kondik (Cyanogen)

So...it's something. Just not for the specific reason that OP thinks it is.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ChronoReverse:
So did you turn off the app and retry it?

@debork

That's an interesting and insightful comment from Cyanogen.

Notice that the i717, Skyrocket, and GS3 users mostly report little to no difference. They all use a Snapdragon with the hardware RNG. Perhaps the larger changes noted by other users on the other platforms could be attributed to this?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Mattish13:
Installed on Motorola xoom wifi. Tested chrome and maps without noticeable difference.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] xkawer:
I don't think it's that easy. I have a pretty slow 800 MHz CPU, and several games were unplayable. With Entropy Seeder, it flows like butter. I don't think the Phone is normally in deeper sleep state while playing a game.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] zombiefly:
nice find. so it looks like good things will happen on the back of this :D
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ZanshinG1:
Seriously, quote from the OP, "After tracing and debugging for hours, I discovered the source of 90% of Android's lag. In a word, entropy (or lack thereof)."

No working engineer would type that.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] mossimo53:
installed the APK on Nexus One running CM10.1 (4.1.2). So far noticed that things do load faster initially right after boot (contacts, dialer, g+, and even maps loaded almost instantaneously) am sure this isn't the placebo effect because i've been keeping track since i installed this rom and it's probably a second or more difference so far. i'll keep you updated if anything comes up..
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] polobunny:
I'm gonna laugh forever if someone like Kondik proves it does something in certain circumstances while I look back at the so-said Android devs and linux cracks saying it doesn't do #!@&. Like forever-ever.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] a-id:
You're wrong, when I'm using Seeder (starting binary with init.d script) and screen is off, mostly CPU is in deep sleep.

Отправлено с моего GT-I9000 через Tapatalk
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Mrozik1990:
Yes. I turned it off in TasKiller ;)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ZanshinG1:
Most of the developers, including myself, approached this cautiously, knowing from experience that what looks like a duck is often an osprey.

Selling the app before being absolutely sure of the hack's effects was greedy, and arguably unethical. I suspect there are already some people not laughing about the money they spent for the app.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] gruntparty:
I hate this reddit mob mentality in this thread. I keep reading trying to see new development and a more scientific and logical explanations and modifications to this program to increase performance with little demand on battery, but instead i see constant loops of the same complaints and arguments. It ridiculous. I go to bed last night at page 80 and when i wake up this thread is at 110+. Stop posting that it works for you. Go make a new thread and post how well this works over there and all reddit users go there as well.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] theguz4l:
Wow.. installed on GS II w/ AOKP 4.1.2 and it works great so far. Noticable difference.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] VivaErBetis:
Testing in a Nexus 4 with no noticeable difference... but I didn't experienced lags before :D
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] zombiefly:
In the spirit of open source, it should really have been a donate option.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] UN5EEN:
How do I uninstall 1.0 in order to install 1.1

RAZR M: PmR'd Eclipse ROM
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ChronoReverse:
I meant the Entropy app. It has a button to turn off (and the entropy will almost immediately drop back down to 300 levels).

That is (without rebooting):

1. Have Entropy on

2. Load Gallery and time it

3. Have Entropy off

4. Load Gallery again and time it

5. Repeat 1-4 several times and throw out outliers

If there's a consistent difference, this is the sort of decisive proof needed. That is to say, it would be nice to have actual systematic testing. If this could be demonstrated all in one shot with a video then it'd be gravy.

(I cannot replicate the effects on my i717 Note 1 in both ICS and and CM10(JB) but it's a Qualcomm device with a hardware RNG so I'm willing to chalk it up to that)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] claytonjn:
If he hadn't posted the exact same apk on here for free and even included the files to be included directly in ROMs I may agree with you, but seeing as he did you just sound like you want an excuse to complain about something...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] DeaconBoogie:
I'VE GOT IT!

The truth about Seeder... is that it contains code that causes your phone to emit noxious fumes which create neural time interrupt in the occipital lobe of the brain. When the brain is not processing new imagery (e.g. no input), it temporarily shuts down, causing the user to not notice the passage of time. Kind of like how various CPU governors work.

Some users with older devices have batteries that will smoke up quicker, enhancing the effect...

Absolutely insidious!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pepoluan:
Reading Mr. Kondik's explanation, I can guess what had happened.

1. OP performed a trace, and found that whenever Android hits the code to get random bits, the system stalls.

2. OP checked entropy_avail, and found it very low.

3. OP knows that /dev/random blocks when exhausted.

4. OP puts 1+2+3 together, and arrived at a conclusion that lags are caused by an empty entropy pool.

5. OP compiled rngd, which refills the entropy pool really quickly.

6. OP sees lags gone, and takes that as a verification of his theory.

What OP didn't realize is that the lagging problem is caused by something much deeper, wherein the code actually disabled pre-emption during certain stages of getting a random number. rngd -- for reasons still unclear -- somehow bypasses these chokepoints, causing many devices to actually run smoother.

-- Sent from a GT-I8150 running ICS perfectly well. F'U, Sams#!t --
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] jr_718:
Ahahahahaha:D
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] aSquard:
Yeah, I haven't put this on my Nexus 4 yet, but the Galaxy Nexus seems to respond well to this (I'll have to try the newer version later today) :good:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Fast-Droid:
Installed Brainmasters seeder version for Nexus S last night and let me tell you i noticed a huge diff as soon as the phone booted up..Its not placebo on my end, this mod works amazing on my NS!!!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Mrozik1990:
Entropy app? I found only https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.boolbalabs.entropy&hl=pl :P

Please send this app you are talking about on PM. There is too hard spam to look for replies :P
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] cnjax:
This should put an end to this thread

http://www.xda-developers.com/android/entropy-seed-generator-not-all-its-hacked-up-to-be/
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] shadesofb1ack:
I didn't attempt to kill my gallery or anything like that, but I usually have a lot of lag when scrolling through all the photo thumbnails in the gallery app. That's almost completely gone after installing seeder.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] polobunny:
The money they spent for the app? The app is offered free of charge for XDA members, is very inexpensive on the play store, and shows some kind of improvement, whether by the way explained in the original post or some other way for some people. It's only scam if it doesn't provide any kind of improvement and/or it's ill intended. I don't think it's greedy or unethical, maybe a bit quick on the trigger, but you have to be quick if you want to make money in this world. And it's not like he didn't do any kind of work, he did.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] zombiefly:
not really, as Kondik has just said that something is happening. this thread was the source, why should it close?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] MeetFace:
THIS ^^^

Guaranteed there are people experiencing bias and the "fish oil" effect is real. I also guarantee that real benefits are being realized.

I'm excited to see what comes of this. There have been a lot of inventions created in our history that came from misplaced conclusions and inventive failures.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] itznfb:
Why? The article is AGAIN incorrect. It doesn't reduce lag from boosting CPU. That is 100% false.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] zeppelinrox:
heh.

THAT... reminded me of THIS...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] zombiefly:
XDA looking quite stupid with the retraction. are they going to alter it again to say now it is actually doing something? :S
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] itznfb:
With some of the best minds in the Android dev community taking a serious look at this I hope we can expect some revived performance from some old devices. I know my GTab lives again because of this.

---------- Post added at 02:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:35 PM ----------

They have to. The article is blatantly incorrect.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] debork:
Sounds about right. It was very confusing looking at the issue and not seeing the same conclusion from 1+2+3 from the data, but great now that the folks are probing deeper to find the real problem, ideally w/ a surgical fix in the end without extra overhead.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ZanshinG1:
Funny how he hasn't done any work to make sure people going to the play store aren't misinformed. He makes some very, very bold claims in the app's info, which engineers from Google and the Dalvik project have refuted.

When you sell something you are opening a can of worms you would not have if you do not sell it. Misinforming people can take a potentially dangerous turn when dollars are involved.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] lap0:
This has been the solution chosen by FreeBSD for a very long time and they are a bunch of security-savvy guys really.

If /dev/urandom is a CSPRNG (where the important first two letters mean Cryptographically Strong) it means that yes, the output is unpredictable and blocking is unnecessary (and only a way to generate problems, not solve them).
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] t4d73:
But if it did boost cpu that would obviously reduce lag correct?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] canis999:
The app does exactly what the dev intended it to do, and it works. The fact, that nobody, including the dev, can explain why the thing the app does actually increases performance is quite irrelevant. Where is the misinformation?

Besides, the app is free here, on XDA.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Treatcon:
Hummmm, makes sense to me.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Omar04:
This application while enabled put me on perpetual roaming on my Samsung galaxy SII epic 4G touch. Stock rom FL16. Have to disable it to enter sprint service and stop roaming. Weird.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] xuser:
Please link to the refuted claims from the Google and Davlik engineers. I would like to read what they have to say.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ChronoReverse:
Good idea. I've sent you a PM. (I meant the [entropy] Seeder 1.1 found in the first post of this thread btw).
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Omar04:
Lol Busted!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] t4d73:
I have exact same device on exact same rom and do not have this issue. I'm on the tar with root injected myself. Weird you're having this issue.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] itznfb:
Maybe on some devices that have a powerful enough CPU to overcome whatever is causing the lag. But not for under-powered devices like my GTab running ICS. Older hardware not designed for the newer 4.x OS seem to be benefiting the most. No matter how high I clock my CPU it is not capable of overcoming the lag. It will just sit there for minutes at a time sometimes. I think it's going to crash but eventually it finishes doing whatever process it was working on. After installing this I haven't seen that happen once, the CPU scaling hasn't changed and the battery life hasn't changed. Win, win... win.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pepoluan:
The truth is, at this point *NOBODY*, not even Android devs, knows what exactly is going on. Or, as Steve Klondik (@Cyanogen himself) puts it rather forthrightly:

More investigation is needed.

* It might be entropy exhaustion -- many people are vehemently against this theory

* It might be CPUfreq pegging -- contested by people actually pegging their CPUfreq

* It might be I/O path tickling

* It might be some subtle interaction with kernel scheduler

* It might be... something else

Let's hope that Android devs will not just call this 'placebo' without digging deeper...

Who knows? Maybe they will find some optimization strategies hitherto unused because nobody before thought that it will have significant effects.

-- Sent from a GT-I8150 running ICS perfectly well. F'U, Sams#!t --
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] desalesouche:
check here https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=42265#c114

this is not the end...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Gillion:
I will have to try this on a phone with low processing power.

I did everthing OP and others have said.

I truly see no increased snappiness or response on the Samsung glalaxy note 2 which flies already.

Perhaps I'm being slow.

I need another older phone to test this on.

As soon as I do I will understand a bit more.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Omar04:
Yeah is weird, I enable it then select enable on boot and then reboot, that's when I stuck on roaming had to disable it to enter sprint network again. :confused:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] polobunny:
I understand your concerns and your point of view, but I don't think he is as bad as you make him out to be. I don't think he is purposely misinforming people rather than MAYBE being misinformed himself.

I'd be happy for the dev if not only he discovered a way to actually boost Android performance but also get some money out of it, while still maintaining his integrity.

And although it doesn't make it any better, he is definitely not the worst offender. Looking 2 minutes I can find a handful of very dubious apps that are accepted by the Play Store. I wish the quality of the filtering was a bit better to be honest.

For the record, Google gives back 70% of the app price. App currently sold between 1000 and 5000, so dev could be looking between $1043 and $5214. Likely close to 1000 units sold than 5000 though. ;D
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] t4d73:
Wait a minute. Are you rooted? It won't work otherwise. I only ask because I think you weren't rooted from reading other threads.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] SubwayJrd:
From reading between the fluff being posted here, it certainly seems that most higher-end (quad core, and very recent) phones don't ALL see benefits from the mod (a few people have mentioned that they do, especially on Nexus 4s I believe). I'm running a dear old HTC Thunderbolt that is noticeably smoother with the Seeder Script installed, which also continues to Deep Sleep, and CPU spy shows nearly identical Times in State to Seeder being off.

I love that Steve Klondik (ie, Cyanogen) got onto this and agrees that SOMETHING is happening. I'll happily take my something that smoothes my phone up, and continue to follow the thread while brilliant devs get figured out what exactly IS causing the increased smoothness.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ZanshinG1:
For the record, I don't attribute malice, just youthful enthusiasm and lack of foresight.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] sheraro:
Seeder , or project butter for Gingerbread in my Xperia play :)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] CrackerTeg:
Is there such a thing as buttery butter? I used the script from post 738 rather than the apk and I do notice a bit of an improvement.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] recolor-shrink-spool:
Well, it reduces lag a lot on my Desire HD! Thanks a lot for making this application.

Sent from my Desire HD+
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] jova33:
What ever happened to the author of the OP?

Sent from my wireless telephonic device.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Jbastardov:
After reading all this posts, ideas, rumors and accusations, I just decided to try the app out. My phone is a rooted Xperia Sola with stock rom 4.0.4. In my experience, my major issues with lagginess I've encountered on my phone are on the Contacts and Phone apps, as well as Chrome. For the rest of the day I'll be using my phone and testing this apps and keeping an eye on the battery while using Seeder.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] bronskrat:
I've had my Motorola Bionic phone set to maximum CPU when plugged in via SetCPU and I noticed a large difference in "snappiness" after installing the app, so it can't be anything with the CPU as I was already at maximum.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] maurogg84:
He just made a comment 4 hours ago, just click on his profile picture and then go to posts. He probably doesn't waste his time arguing with others because this is obviously working.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] SubwayJrd:
I have to agree. I did some watching Time-In-State with CPU Spy, and it was a dead ringer between using and not using Seeder. My phone was also able to Deep Sleep (and consistently did for large amounts of time, meaning that the CPU was not being pegged in a negative way). Basically, I tested the opposite end of the spectrum.

It appears that everyone who argues that the CPU is being ramped up constantly has simply latched onto an early unsubstantiated statement in this thread, and has done no actual testing themselves.

Besides that, the CPU being ramped up would only affect those resuming from screen off, not from people seeing increased smoothness while zipping around an app (which I personally have seen in several apps, including Google Maps).