yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pepoluan:
First, we gotta find out where exactly the leftover rngd is.

Enter the following commands:

su

ps | grep rngd

Then post the output here.

EDIT: While we're at it, please also post the output of the following commands:

ls /system/etc/init.d

find / -name "rngd"

-- Sent from a GT-I8150 running ICS perfectly well. F'U, Sams#!t --
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] roshan2989:
guys just wanna ask for conformation,after flash this fileSeederV6.zip in cwn...can i install any app for playstore? or installing app will messed up the performance of the phone...just for clarification.....
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] thecapitalr:
Thanks for helping me dude. Much appreciated. Just entered the commands and this is what I get:

EDIT: Sorry I forgot to do the second command. Dont want to do a new post. Here is a imgur link to all of the commands entered. thanks so much for helping again dude!

http://i.imgur.com/86TGd.png
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pepoluan:
You're free to install anything from the Play Store since the flashablezip puts its files *only* under /system, while apps from Play Store will go into /data

-- Sent from a GT-I8150 running ICS perfectly well. F'U, Sams#!t --
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] faekplastik3s:
That doesn't mean it's running.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
@pepoluan This is a new find! A binary named qrngd in /system/bin! I do not have that...or might be rngd binary renamed...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pepoluan:
Ahhh... qrngd is a *built in* rngd for Qualcomm Snapdragon-based devices. It is part of the Stock Firmware's binaries.

No wonder you saw no improvement! There's already a qrngd force-feeding /dev/random with entropy from the Snapdragon's hardware RNG chip.

Also, I can see why your battery life is destroyed: qrngd and rngd are, behind the scenes, fighting for usage of the hardware RNG chip.

To ensure that Seeder is indeed removed, enter the following command:

find / -name "rngd"

There should be *no* result.

-- Sent from a GT-I8150 running ICS perfectly well. F'U, Sams#!t --
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
Sorry, just saw this...:p
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] roshan2989:
i just saw the latest version of seeder in playstore,im using the V6 seeder which is flashable zip..is it the same ot the newer one...can the apk or should i remove the v6 before installing the playstore seeder..?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
It might..that pgrep command searches for the PID of a process given its name...for this case, rngd...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] spinkick:
Because I was tired of arguing and to be quite honest your argument to" read the thread" makes it sound like I'm not educated on the subject. The fact that you feel it makes you sound stupid reflects why you said the same exact thing to me in the first place.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] faekplastik3s:
My bad.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Yze:
question. why does there seem to be two different devs working on this? OP has an apk and another dev has a flashable zip.

this is starting to cause A LOT of confusion.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
Choose either one...;)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Chxrlyglez:
I think you must update OP with last version, changelog and how uninstall Seeder

Just my opinion, i see lot of people confused.....

But i can say seeder works AWESOME on my Xperia S with Stock rom .55, but when i listen music, watch videos, or any other media for a long time, the phone freezes and reboot :(

Any idea why??

Regards
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
The are no 2 devs...only one...lambgx02 is the one that compiled rngd, it is his work...I just made it into a script for those who find the app incompatible or buggy...it has been like this if you followed the thread since beginning...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] thecapitalr:
Comes up with nothing. thanks for the help. here is to hoping my battery troubles gets resolved!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
I understand but he is seldom online here...situation is too heated up...I can only say that those people that are asking those questions are...well, "flashers" who did not read properly...no offence though...but I am kind of fed up too...:o
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pepoluan:
@ryuinferno

I think we must first check for existence of qrngd to prevent unnecessary starting of rngd

Maybe add these lines of code to the Seeder initscript:

LOG=/data/local/seeder.log

if pgrep qrngd > /dev/null ; then
echo "qrngd already running! Seeder will not be started!" >> $LOG
exit 1
fi

if find /system -name "qrngd" > /dev/null ; then
echo "qrngd found in /system! Seeder will not be started!" >> $LOG
fi

The 2nd test might be unnecessary, but I'm not sure if qrngd gets started after or before the Seeder initscript runs, so I put it there for good measure.

Shouldn't take more than a couple of seconds anyway.

-- Sent from a GT-I8150 running ICS perfectly well. F'U, Sams#!t --
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
Thanks but...it is kinda scary to release a Seeder_v7 now...don't you think so? :p...but will do it tommorrow anyway...thanks! :)

EDIT: I think I will make the find command point to /system/xbin and /system/bin instead...makes things faster...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Formhault:
Reposting for... well... if you've kept track with the topic, you'll know why.

READ AND OBEY i
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] spinkick:
'better experience' is NOT quantifiable data. This argument is invalid. Believe me, I want this to be a magic speed increase as much as anyone, but we need real data and a real reason how it works.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] cocchiararo:
The correct way of testing this would be to leave the screen on and NOT touch the phone for that amount of time.

Then repeat without seeder.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pepoluan:
Whoa, I just tested...

... and it appears 'find' does NOT return an error exit code when it failed!

Shiiiiit... don't change your script yet! This requires some additional sleight of hand...

-- Sent from a GT-I8150 running ICS perfectly well. F'U, Sams#!t --
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
Wow...a heated phone comming right up...will try it maybe..:D...cause personally I was thinking about wakelocks...and even if my screen is off, wakelocks will still occur if it wanted too...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] canis999:
Unbelievable. If you were educated on the subject and have read a bit more of the thread, you wouldn't state that it's mostly CPU staying active, as it's not.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
Chillax...an exit code is not really required...I think so...cause an exit command is already good enough to break the script right?

I thought of using this code:

if [ -e /system/bin/qrngd ] || [ -e /system/xbin/qrngd ]; then
echo "qrngd found, seeder will not be started!" >> $LOG
exit
fi

Ain't it simpler?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pepoluan:
@ryuinferno

Okay, this *should* work :

if [ -e /system/*bin/qrngd] ; then

I know it works on my phone...

Or perhaps better this:

if [ -e /system/bin/qrngd -o -e /system/xbin/qrngd ] ; then

Should be trivially faster, too... :cool:

-- Sent from a GT-I8150 running ICS perfectly well. F'U, Sams#!t --
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] cocchiararo:
you should provide some video/benchmarks (i hate those tho), numbers of some form.

I don't say that i don't believe you, its just like you are asking people to believe with no proof :P

ps: neither my gnexus or now my nexus 4 see a difference here, but maybe those devices with android 4.2.1 are out of the scope of devices which can benefit from this (either because of android version or present hardware)

but you MUST test it like this, because seeder is not suposed to run with screen off :P

ps: my nexus 4 saw like 10 to 25% more battery drain with seeder.zip (dunno which version, but was before v5, and had no "v: on its name).

are all qualcom devices suposed to have that binary? my nexus 4 does not.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pepoluan:
What I meant was, even if the 'find' command doesn't find any files, it will still return a '0' making the second test to always succeed, which means that rngd will never be started.

-- Sent from a GT-I8150 running ICS perfectly well. F'U, Sams#!t --
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
Lol...look at my post above yours...I thought of using the same commands...:p
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pepoluan:
Not sure about the || though... I had baaaaad experience using || in a script. :banghead:

IMO, better to use -o inside the [ ]

-- Sent from a GT-I8150 running ICS perfectly well. F'U, Sams#!t --
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
Hmm...is it? The app does not have the functionality yet if not mistaken...the binary runs all the way long...except if my assumption is wrong...and yeah, you are using a damn outdated one...but it is basically the same...but the most recent one has a menu and a few more functions...the rngd binary is also launched with tweaked values by pepoluan...:)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pepoluan:
Not the flashablezip version.

The apk version obeys Android suspend order. The flashablezip version runs all the time since it's a system daemon not initiated by an apk

You really should use at least v3.

The default parameters of rngd is way too aggressive; v3 has a much more sane tuning.

It ultimately depends on the maker, whether to include qrngd or not, and even if included, whether to start it upon boot or not.

But if there is *no* qrngd, rngd can reign supreme as the only (frequent) user of the hardware RNG.

-- Sent from a GT-I8150 running ICS perfectly well. F'U, Sams#!t --
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Formhault:
What?

I'm sorry, but last time I checked, improving your device's responsiveness / snappiness was something that turned everyone's heads (hence this topic's boom`iness in ratings, so-to-say, haha).

If my argument is invalid... what do you want me to do? Become an awesome developer that knows every bit of Android and what every single bit of it does and why? Or perhaps set up a very expensive camera and put my Note side by side to another, one with and the other without this "mod"... to show you how apps open faster and by how many miliseconds? What argument would be valid? One of the above? :)

"dis app do nothang i reported it to Google u will all go to jail for dis incredibly useless and harmfull to kittens app!!!!!!!!"... perhaps THAT is a valid argument?

-----

I don't know what the **** is this randomness in /dev/(u)random but I believe it's bits (well, bytes) allocated for I/O (like the buffer of your HDD is 16 MB, and can/cannot be changed - I suck at this chapter). Hence, the more bits allocated for I/O, the faster I/O operations are done. That could be a reason why this works.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] cocchiararo:
Well, I saw no difference in performance anyway, so I'm not touching seeder again unless it's proved to work even for newest devices xD

Ps: what I meant was that it does not hold a wake lock, so the device was never prevented from going into deep sleep. My sugestion still stands. And my experience when running that more agresivo seeder configuration was that it did take a hit on battery life while using the phone (my commute to work takes at least an hour, during which I listen to music with bt headphones, and my phone can't deep sleep because of that)

Enviado desde mi Nexus 7 usando Tapatalk 2

---------- Post added at 04:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 PM ----------

You can make videos with and without seeder :p

Enviado desde mi Nexus 7 usando Tapatalk 2
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Mantulis:
I don't understand how noobs like you talking about things don't know a bit of it. And don't talk to me about benchmark crap.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] iruiz2:
I can clearly notice an improvement in my HTC Desire running ICS 4.04... Thanks to Ryuinferno for your posts, they cleared my ideas about this.

Using your flashable script. :thumbup:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
But that was not my reason for emphasising deep sleep...it was because there were certain people who claimed that the phone was faster because it did not enter deep sleep properly...but no harm doing your experiment too...:D
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] spinkick:
You start by telling me I'm not educated in the subject (your first post also accused me of such) then you go on to quote a post that attempts to prove it works based on "feeling". Lol I'm done here.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Formhault:
I know I can. Seeder does not prevent me from doing that, if that's what you were implying :P .

---------- Post added at 09:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 PM ----------

I beg your pardon?!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] spinkick:
You just are not providing data and your post comes off like you are mad at people who refuse to acknowledge that it works without real data. People who do think it works can't even really explain why. Scientific method requires a control group, ie a stock phone and then in best conditions, a phone that is identical to the control phone in every way but the seeder fix. Then some way to measure the difference that is repeatable over several tests.

Would you take a magic pill that was developed because somebody said that they felt better but couldn't explain why or show what it does?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Formhault:
You're right, to some extent at least.

Luckily I have a friend who also has a Galaxy Note. Problem is he's never been rooted, hence he's stuck on stock 4.0.4 (and an earlier build than the latest available). No way I'm going back to 100% stock, but I'll flash a 4.0.4 TouchWiz ROM and compare the two, mine with Seeder, his without, and video record it. That's the most scientific way of comparing I can do. Otherwise, I could try to count the miliseconds it takes an app to load with and without Seeder on, but that would hardly be accurate.

Could Quadrant benchmarking be considered a scientific method of testing the effectiveness of this mod?

I think it was explained why this mod deploys better performance (not in all cases, apparently)... but what was explained was not digested as well by everyone (especially some Cyanogen devs).

Regarding what Ricardo and (whoever else explained... forgot the name) said about this mod not doing what it claims... I tend to believe them, because they are developers. But it's like, for example, when a Samsung guy from a showroom tells you : no, the S3 does not have a <insert wireless chip here>, although you clearly saw it DOES have that chip on your own. You know what I'm saying...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] atomic339:
I installed 1.1 apk and turn on but in terminal emulator I don't get value when I type:

su

watch -n 1 cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail

I use Neat Rom Lite v1.4, kernel has init.d support

Day ago I used Seeder_v5.zip and when I type this command in console I get value about 3k - 4k
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] marvi0:
This is turning out to be the most controversial thread of the year on xda, why can't we have a separate thread for development only for this thread, were only people, making positive contributions, in terms of whether or not this works and this thread can just continue for those who want to express opinions, mourn, argue, etc.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] dwang:
Here's the theory behind why this works.

The kernel is responsible for generating random data/numbers. When the pool of random data runs out, the kernel will create more random data.

When the kernel starts to generate more random data, it BLOCKS ALL other processes from doing anything until it finishes generating more random data. This means that the UI process, the touchscreen process, surface flinger etc are all blocked until the kernel finishes.

Which causes lag and stutter!

What the seeder app attempts to do is to prevent the system from running out of random data so that the kernel never has to generate new random numbers by itself. This is accomplished by using the rngd daemon to do that on the kernel's behalf.

Also, the theory that the performance improvement is caused by the CPU being pegged is bogus as all you need to do is go into a shell and run TOP and see that rngd is at 0% load all the time. Rngd doesn't use any significant amount of CPU.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Formhault:
That's a great idea, however, it will hardly be doable.

New people will still be posting here, quoting the OP, asking "why does this not work" and other non-development related stuff... so... hardly doable :( .
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] UndisputedGuy:
Sorry, i've read the OP and other pages but i don't see a way to undo this if one uses the flashable zip. Is there a way?

Edit: Nvm, found this:

http://www.androidfilehost.com/?fid=9390248398092764144
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Mantulis:
Ricardo Cerqueira

The only reason devices feel faster is because by constantly polling the PRNG, it keeps the device's I/O in constant use (which in turn, depending on device, will make the CPU stick to higher clock frequencies to keep up. Read it and then read it again!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] zeppelinrox:
Yeah the sysctl tweaks work without any binaries running.

echo 0 > /proc/sys/kernel/randomize_va_space is the same as busybox sysctl -w kernel.randomize_va_space=0

-for i in /sys/block/*/queue/add_random;do echo 0 > $i;done - This will disable the use of linux provided entropy, and so it relies on the RNGD

Not all devices have add_random tho.

Try:

if [ "`grep rngd`" ]; then echo "*rngd is running, exiting..."; exit; fi

This also prevents rngd from accidentally running more than once.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Formhault:
Oh, don't worry, I've read it well enough - unlike some people tend to do around here. ;)

-----

Also, read my post you initially quoted. Read it again and read it well :) .
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] debork:
There have been some pretty straight-forward methods posted to visibly (or non-scientifically) test the specific focal point of 'lag' or reduction thereof. Is this a urandom vs random blocking issue, where seeder makes sure the bucket isn't empty/blocking occurs?

Go in the opposite direction of what seeder attempts to fix by draining entropy bucket:

1. Link urandom to random. The opposite direction of another proposed fix of linking random to urandom. Massive blocking issues should occur. Immediately, what happens to the UI, the "smoothness" ?

2. Constantly empty the entropy bucket with something like cat /dev/random. Everytime the read_wakeup_threshold is met, cat should read and empty random, then get blocked waiting for it to refill to RWUT again. Immediately, what happens to the UI, the "smoothness" ?

Personally, I don't see any difference on my Snapdragon S4. Also, there's no qrngd built in or running that I can find.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] cryodrake:
What the heck is up with all the whining? Some people need to get over themselves. Someone put time and effort into creating something that a lot of people see as an improvement. Yay, say thank you. If it doesn't work for you or you don't understand why it works then go figure it out yourself or let it go, its not like you've lost anything. But whining about it? Adds nothing of value. No one has to convince you of anything, its not being shoved down your throats.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Formhault:
The difference, if any, would be visible on slower devices. Snapdragon S4-powered devices are... man... I wish I had one of those :) .

Again, the difference, if any, in your case, would be very very small. Quad-core is much powerful than dual-core, so... this mod would be useless on thoes devices.

Anyway, what this mod does is not the solution to the root of the problem (lag), unfortunately :( . There are many factors in Android that lead to lag... I've read about all of them in a few articles a year ago, but forgot them, lol.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] spinkick:
I thought developers said that most calls do not go to that pool anyway and that they can't figure out why this would be a problem.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] debork:
Right, the S4 is pretty fast and probably reason why I see no effect with any of the solutions (thresholds, linking, seeder).

But for the people who do see an effect, and if their problem is urandom vs random, then massive blocking should occur, to where things simply grind to a near halt, much worse than 'laggy' or 'unsmooth'.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Formhault:
For those of you who consider benchmarks an awesome way of proving what device is the best and/or whether this particular mod works or not...

I did some Quadrant tests. Tests were done under these conditions : constant 3G signal, data off, Wi-Fi on (router @ less than 10 meters away - no, will not convert that into inches), GPS off, CPU @ 1.4 GHz with Ondemand governor (daily driver). Each test was commenced at one minute after boot time (rebooted between every test).

With Seeder ON

Quadrant test #1 (total score : 3730)

CPU - 6729. Mem - 4341. I/O - 6419. 2D - 212. 3D - 1858.

Quadrant test #2 (total score : 3851)

CPU - 6762. Mem - 3563. I/O - 6566. 2D - 333. 3D - 2029.

With Seeder OFF

Quadrant test #1 (total score : 3795)

CPU - 6625. Mem - 3556. I/O - 6380. 2D - 273. 3D - 2140.

Quadrant test #2 (total score : 3821)

CPU - 6636. Mem - 3729. I/O - 6437. 2D - 275. 3D - 2030.

As you can see, Quadrant benchmark scores conclude to... nothing! Again, next time I run Quadrant, I might see a bump to over 4000 score. But that's nothing trustworthy. It's like SD cards benchmarks. Now you get 14 MB/s write speed, and if you run it again, you might get 13 or 15 MB/s.

-----

I've owned the Galaxy Nexus and ATRIX 4G, and while they scored much worse than the Note, the overall feel and performance was about the same!

My girlfriend's Tab 2 barely got 3000 score, but her tablet is much faster (the TouchWiz UI is an exception, of course).

Benchmark scores will always be a topic of discussion. Just like this topic, I guess.

---------- Post added at 09:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 PM ----------

Yeah... that made me wonder, too. Devs said this mod shouldn't bring any performance improvement, although I see it - and it's no placebo, as I'm constantly using my phone for ~6 hours a day for... ever since I got it.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] spinkick:
What whining? Discussion on if it is snake oil or not? I'm sure everyone wants it to be a magic fix, the discussion is on proof that does anything, and that it is not a detriment to the device it is running on.