yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] sinisin:
I use a different entropy generator. But when I was using Seeder it made a noticeable difference on my Galaxy S3. All this trash talk about placebo is just that. I run over 240 apps. Stock entropy levels don't replenish enough or stay consistent enough to run that many apps without lag. People seeing little to no effect are running very clean devices with very few apps. The entropy mod I use has completely eliminated all lag. I spend time waiting for data from wifi or 3g. I'd invite any of you naysayers to load up a couple hundred apps and tell me you don't see a difference then. :p ;)

Sent from my SIII
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] rawintellect:
What I really got sick of is a certain development team bashing entropy seeder and using scare tactics saying it will destroy your NAND. If it's RAM it's NOT hitting the NAND repeatedly and NOT destroying ANYTHING!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pikachu01:
It is not a placebo as it's ramping up your load while doing that, and with that ramping up the frequency more often when the seeder is actively running.

You could achieve the same goal by just reducing the up_threshold of your governor so that it ramps the frequency up more actively.

You'll feel your battery drain faster though. However, people that usually have their phones awake most of the time (i.e. large screen on time) won't really feel the effect as the screen drains a higher percentage of battery than your CPU.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] rawintellect:
So just so I can armor myself against people that claim this destroys the NAND. The RNG seed and seed keys are generated by taking random data from the internal /dev/random RNG (reading not writing) and storing these values in volatile memory (RAM)? Or is the file /dev/random entirely generated in volatile memory at startup?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pepoluan:
/dev/random is *not* a file.

It's an interface to a buffer in RAM.

A buffer that the kernel keeps watch over, and will refill when it's too low.

It's the process of refilling this buffer that causes lag, because the kernel wants to fill the buffer with 'high quality' entropy.

Just like /dev/zero (an interface to a null-generator) and /dev/null (a blackhole sink), so is /dev/random. They are 'virtual' devices that provide userspace-accessible interfaces to functions built into the kernel.

People saying /dev/random has anything to do with NAND memory are plain intelligence-challenged.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Hellscythe:
guys, if you;re so concerned about killing your device,

just dont use it then

using it wears and tears it :eek:

seriously guys, it wouldnt make a big difference.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] rawintellect:
Using it does NOT "wear and tear it" and there's nothing wrong with asking a question. Calm yourself. In fact the reason I DID ask was to defend my usage of it. I got tired of hearing the scare tactics from people every time I brought it up.

Sent from the rabbit hole.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] kchannel9:
+1, I'm totally right there with you, 210 apps, and this phone is screamin fast now, after seeder
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] killed:
The phone name LG Prada 3.0 P940 with stock ROM is working with .apk (if want to use direct rngd in init.d, kernel need to support, try with http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1933849 , it's work for me)

And test with the custom rom CM10, still work :good:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] MBQ_:
New rumor:

Using seeder turns your phone into a tree

get @ me
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ilos:
which one ? ( for testing :p )
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] mw86:
Crossbreeder

link deleted message recieved

personally its not nice of me to be posting alternate software in an opposing software thread. so if the post is deleted do what you are supposed to and do a search. so apologies to Seeders developer. has option to use faster less resource intensive frandom kernel module if it is implemented into ones kernel already.

wow no one claiming it raises cpu usage and makes it feel faster because of that has used these two apps. no placebo. sg3 has its own entropy generator and by itself can only contain 100-300 entropy in the pool, the problem these address is todays devices do so much gui magic they consume mass amounts of entropy. ive seen from 4096 used down to 100 range in split second at boot time using cool tool to monitor entropy and one of these apps to attempt to keep entropy full and readily available. those articles you guys read have been discredited and many have written retractions, as entropy depletion is a current problem and Google and developers are being forced to address it or face lag from stock entropy functions due to its either random or urandoms blocking nature as in when entropy pool depletes all things stop until the kernel has refilled entropy to the lowest value accepted to resume, i believe either the read or write wakeup threshold.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ccdreadcc:
So does using xda on ur phone..

Sent from my potato oO
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ilos:
You can edit your post now :) Thanks !
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] MBQ_:
False.

My phone is still a phone
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ccdreadcc:
Omfg traaaw..

Sent from my potato oO
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] MBQ_:
Hahahah

:D
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Lt.Win:
Holy crap this thing works! I'm on an ARMv6 device with unofficial CM10 and the home screen transitions used to lag. Even the keyboard.

Now, gone. With the wind. :cool: Thank you Sir! :D

Sent from my HTC Wildfire™ S powered by Jelly King®

[HELP THREAD] Official Wildfire S Help Thread!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] zebidybob:
I think what (s)he meant was

Using your phone will cause wear and tear so if you are that bothered leave it in the box.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] GSarath:
Is this related to the one in Jelly Bean 4.2.2

Came to know that Android Jelly Bean 4.2.2 now uses a new implementation of SecureRandom.

Original Source: Article titled Security Enhancements in Jelly Bean on the Android Developers Blod dated February 3, 2013

Any idea if ur approach is better or worse than that?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] MrVJTod:
Wondering if this is why my seeder stopped working since u upgraded to 4.2.2.

SuperSU says that permissions are granted, but seeder says permission is denied.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pepoluan:
No relation.

SecureRandom is used for an app to internally generate cryptographically secure pseudo-random numbers. It is seeded only once by /dev/urandom, and afterwards, it 'freewheels'.

Seeder is used to fill up the entropy pool used by /dev/random and /dev/urandom
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Dosentod:
Hello,

I've got a problem with my seeder app: Every time I want to turn it on, I get the "RNGD startup failed" error message.

I'm on a 4.2.2 custom ROM on my Galaxy Nexus and also permitted root access... Strange enough some days ago it worked very well...

Someone any idea? :confused:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] GSarath:
Thanks...Hmmm...

So, does it mean that "ONLY" a combination of both SecureRandom & Seeder can achieve "significant lag reduction" ?

---------- Post added at 01:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:25 AM ----------

So, does it mean that "ONLY" a combination of both SecureRandom & Seeder can achieve "significant lag reduction" ?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] domini99:
Hey.

i noticed bad gaming performance when using this app.

the game random freezes, touchscreen not responding..

anybody has this too?

and how do i fix it :(

Sent from my sending thing..

I threw your **** into a bag and pushed it down the stairs,

I crashed your car into a bridge......

I DONT CAAARREEE!!! :D:D:D
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] shantam:
did u installed crossbreeder mod for entropy if yes then same happened with me the same error u are getting..

try to remove all crossbreeder related files from xbin,etc,data folder and then try again..
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] MrVJTod:
I'm getting this same error but I didn't install the crossbreeder more. Running PA with 4.2.2. Seeder says, I don't have permission. SuperSU says, yes you do.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] xStagGx:
Odp: [APK] Seeder 2.0.0 entropy generator to provide significant lag reduction

This.

I run over 200 apps on my s3, and have exactly the same thoughts.

And im not talking just about normal daily use, but the most noticeable diffrence i see is in some games. Eg. In bad optimized game like Heroes of Order & Chaos, playing it was a lag fest. With seeder, even on moderate level game is smooth, without a single lag.

Also in normal use, even on launcher the difference is noticeable (feel like everything works faster/smoother) so for sure seeder is not placebo.

Send from Samsung Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] GermainZ:
It's not a placebo - but its benefits aren't coming from increasing entropy.

If you don't care, that's fine. But if you're interested in understanding and not just downloading, you can read some of the articles posted about this by known devs.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Lord Yurij:
Did you enable extend io queue?

That option decreased performance in some games for me
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] espaciosalter20:
Lol... That's exactly happen with my RAZR i , stock ics... I insist: seeder must have an upgrade of rooting permissions.

Enviado desde mi XT890 usando Tapatalk 2
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] zebidybob:
Have you got any links?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] mkdsa:
need advice

using sabasa prime v12 and have installed oc daemon,can i use seeder apk also

device desire hd
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] domini99:
tanks! this really increased performance :D

Sent from my sending thing..

I threw your **** into a bag and pushed it down the stairs,

I crashed your car into a bridge......

I DONT CAAARREEE!!! :D:D:D
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] faizal ali:
deleted

---------- Post added at 03:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:45 PM ----------

Try to uninstall the app,and than clear data from super user,clear all catch in recovery..after that try to install back the seeder.it work for me
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] GermainZ:
The GCode page, for one. I trust you can know who's a random commenter and who knows what he's talking about (hint: project members).

Other devs posted their opinions, such as Ricardo Cerqueira. I've read some more articles but can't spend much time digging into my history. I trust you can use search engines if the info already posted isn't enough.

You could also just read the OP's update (the colored part is a comment I've added):

I want to make it very clear I'm not saying anything bad about the OP. I was addressing people who reply with "works! idc what everyone says!1!", or "it's obviously not a placebo lol11!1! seeding entropy is so much better!11!".

This is xda-developers.com. Understanding is important, "it works!" isn't enough.

Does this have an effect? Yes. Is it the effect that was meant to be? No.

That's my opinion.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] debork:
That's kinda like "don't be [just] a user/app-consumer, learn the nuances of android kernel code" :(
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] zebidybob:
Thank you for your reply, I wasn't.... not searching I wanted to know what you had been reading :)

I personally don't see an effect (At first I think it was a placebo), but after turning it off and watching the pool deplete it is obvious that something is depleting the entropy pool and quickly (4000 -ish to 300 -ish in a few seconds).

I also don't see an effect on the CPU frequency as after switching on my phone after being in deep sleep for at least 30 mins (as a test to ensure deep sleep) core 0 may flick up to 890Mhz but returns to 192 Mhz quickly and core 1 stays offline, this state will continue until screen off, as soon as I open a program both cores will up the frequency to 1.5Ghz - this leads me to presume that the governor frequency is not being upped by feeding / filling the entropy pool every second (at least on me phone).

I can't comment on the I/O being kept "awake" by feeding the pool every second ( I assume that this is meant to "prep" the scheduler for the pool being filled / depleted) but I don't know enough...... yet ("reading is how humans flash new software" - Yank555)

The other thing is how many people are running the same apps, tweaks, ROM, kernel or governor on the same phone? so how can anyone say with absolute certainty that the dev/random isn't being depleted by something, therefor causing "lag" once depleted thus using more resources to refill it than topping it up once a second.

I have seen a fair few comments on people trying to test but doing so on a "clean " install of a ROM and tweaked kernel for testing - now while this gives clean results on the core OS people like tweaks and several dev's may use the same tweaks (could be old tweaks from a previous Android version) that depletes the pool, or Android only wants the pool to be of x size and filling the pool is actually causing more work for the system to "dump" the pool.

I would love to have a clear cut answer, but while dev's like the OP are working on ways to improve Android I applaud them and think it would be nice if you weren't so harsh, dismissive and at least provide evidence for your claim(s). I would be dismissive of people that say "it works and I don't care why" as these claims may be of the placebo effect but some people don't care why as long as it does, these are also the same people that ask for ETA's and sub,it "it doesn't work" as bug reports, so you might want to take everything with a little pinch of salt and not be so quick to jump on the bandwagon (the last part is more of a general statement than a dig at you :) )

TL;DR If the entropy pool has no effect on the system why is it depleted so quickly?

Hope this makes sense as I am very tired. :D :):laugh: :good:

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] GermainZ:
You can always ignore my comment if you just want to be a user/app-consumer. But considering this is xda-developers.com, I figured some people would be interested in understanding and not just downloading.

If you're not, then just ignore it.

I think I was crystal clear I wasn't dismissing anything. In fact, what I said is in accordance to the OP's update, and I never said Seeder doesn't have a positive effect. Quoting myself is lame, so just read my post again if you want. :)

Also read the GCode page again. Some interesting comments are #126, #137/138, #160, #173/175, #190/203. Hope it helps.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] debork:
There's 300 pages to wade through in this thread, but there's actually been a lot of discussion (granted by only a handful of people) in here about the specific reasons how/why this works, and the inadvertent effects seeder has.

Actually if you're talking about the "why" and "how" of all this, it's comment #114 (Cyanogen) and #128, #162. The kernel patch in #107 is peripherally related as well.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] dgcruzing:
unfortunately 1.04, 2.0.0 & 2.0.0 b1a is not recognising that it has root privileges on my TF101

I am on EOS #4 TF101 preview 168

i have checked SUPERSU and it has given privileges, rebooted and tried again..

still no joy..

but on my ATV 1200 Geniatech media box all good..
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] GermainZ:
I included the simpler posts as I didn't want people to complain about it being too technical (as I thought you did; I now guess you weren't). :)

Some of these comments are also mentioned in other comments I've quoted, too, so I avoided adding them to avoid redundancy - but you have a good point.

As for the posts in this thread, I only remember zep's posts and if memory serves right, they were mostly about alternate ways of keeping the entropy pool filled (then again, I couldn't keep up for a while after the thread went viral; there were literally 5 posts per minute at one time).
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] zebidybob:
Sorry I didn't *YOU, I meant everyone in general. I wasn't having a go at you :o

I do love it that no one really knows what is happening or why it is happening but props to the OP for "discovering" something that is so controversial :D

I know what you mean about the comments in this thread I left it for a day or two then read all the comments up to that point then left for a few days etc.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] bloodgen:
Need Urgent Help

Hello guys, i need a urgent help. Mistakenly i deleted my burst's internet memory when i was trying to format one of my USB pendrive on computer. After that i am not able to mount internal memory. Tried resetting complete phone, even flashed with downloaded new rom. Nothing is helping.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] GermainZ:
It is interesting indeed :)

Posting in the correct section might help (try your device's Q&A forum).
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pikachu01:
The act of reading the entropy pool drains it of entropy.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ktklein72:
Isn't that a basic law of Physics that all things add to entropy?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Fortun:
The act of reading the entropy pool affects the entropy, but it doesn't necessarily drain it.

When I manually check the entropy pool a few times in a row, without Seeder installed/enabled, each time it raises a little all the way up to 4096. Meaning that the first time it shows 182, second time 216, then 383... and if I keep checking, the entropy pool ends up filled.

I couldn't find a reproducible action where I could see a significant lag reduction, so I'm not saying if keeping the entropy pool filled works or not.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] GermainZ:
That's because you have the seeder enabled, which means it's slightly decreased and highly increased (=increase).
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Fortun:
I should have added that this behavior happens without Seeder enabled.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] GermainZ:
Then you probably have another tweak that modifies kernel.random.read_wakeup_threshold.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] 350Rocket:
I don't know what is up, but I've had seeder running on my Nexus One for probably a week now. I never really noticed any improvement in performance, and just now googled it and found some controversy on whether it actually does anything or is placebo. So I decided to turn it off and try without for a while. Well I can't turn it off, it rebooted my phone, but just went into a bootloop and couldn't revive it until I restored a previous backup. So then I tried again in this backup, it hard rebooted the phone again as soon as i hit the off button in seeder! This time it didn't kill it, it rebooted okay, but seeder is still apparently turned on. So I don't know how to disable it without killing the phone. Any ideas?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] kchannel9:
Lol, leave it on, and worst case scenario it does nothing?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Milamber33:
That... doesn't sound right. Did you install more than one entropy generator by any chance (i.e. both the .apk and the script)? That's the only reason I can think of why playing around with Seeder would impact anything else in the system. It may be worth backing up your stuff and clean reflashing your ROM.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] 350Rocket:
I was mostly looking at trying to uninstall it cause I've been trying to tweak more battery life out lately, and in case it was putting any more wear and tear on my already over 3 year old device.

I bought the app from the play store, didn't realize it was on here for free. So I definitely only have the apk file on here. The backup I went to and the one it crashed, were both fairly recent fresh installs. I've had seeder one a few different roms now and finally settled and the latest CM7.2. The backup was official and the one it crashed was a Kang of it, with cherrypicks or whatever, but very close versions. I think whatever is happening is probably to do with the rom I'm on, as it didn't do this on the older versions or JB roms.

Probably just going to leave it. I did pay for it after all, and the phone has been working great, until I tried to press that off button in seeder.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] afhum:
The best so far. With seeder, for the first time my dual core n7000 beats a quad core htc one x! :eek: I also own the one x though. I can feel the note is much much slower when I am not using seeder. Thank you, developer! :)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] beyeond:
350Rocket,

Why don't you try uninstalling it instead of turning it off? Or maybe freezing it with titanium or ROM toolbox or something?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] blagginspaziyonokip:
This guy ripped off the OP and is trying to make some money off of OP's work. I reported him already.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.doodleapps.seederpro
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] MBQ_:
:good:

Reporting ASAP
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Lt.Win:
Reported. Good job on finding it.

__________________________________

HTC Wildfire S

Android 2.3.5

Powered By HTC Sense 3.5

LG Optimus One (With Dad)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Madaditya:
+1

Flaged as in appropriate! In play store

Typed from my Iyokan!

And...Be the smart Geek! :cool:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ryuinferno:
Lol..he didn't steal the OP's ok...he linked urandom to random...if the app has the OP's work in it, the size will be way bigger than 20++KB as the rngd binary is kinda large...almost 1 MB...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] MrJoakimg:
I reported it too
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Fortun:
read_wakeup_threshold is set at 64 and write_wakeup_threshold at 128.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] GermainZ:
You sure Seeder isn't running? Check ps. Do you have Supercharger installed? There's no way it goes up to 4k without some tweak.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Fortun:
Nothing. I never actually even installed the app, I just called the binary from init.d. I removed both the binary and the init.d script.

No SuperCharger either. Think about it, if that was the case, the values for read_wakeup_threshold and write_wakeup_threshold would be different.

The days I was testing behaviour without it, when I randomly checked the entropy pool during the day sometimes it would be well into the 2000s.

If it makes a difference, here's how I check the entropy and how I got it into the 4000s. Using a file explorer with root privileges (in my case MiFileExplorer), I just open and close the entropy_avail file in /proc/sys/kernel/random/ consecutively. Each time I check, the higher the number. If I keep opening the file, I eventually get the 4096 value.