yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] debork:
What Kondik said matches up with what this guy said (https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=42265#c91)

Seeder's config has rngd threshold at @ 0.9 * pool size = 3686bits. The trickle_threshold (https://android.googlesource.com/kernel/tegra.git/+/android-tegra3-grouper-3.1-jb-fr2/drivers/char/random.c) is at 128*28 = 3584 bits, so with rngd running, the threshold is (almost always? often?) met and almost all the hardware input to entropy bits are ignored... the preempt_disable is instantly re-enabled since nothing happens.

This would mean the choke that some people get is a direct result at one or more of hardware sources of entropy on android devices...irqs, disk access (makes sense when things load) and touch input (coincidentally when you expect the most responsiveness). Also, this would mean the problem is NOT at the blocking /random vs nonblocking /urandom point.

Makes sense of course that older devices feel this more so than newer ones.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] jova33:
Yeah, I saw his post, but he didn't do anything to refute the placebo claims or even what was discussed with the engineers lol.

All he posted was he updated the app and will hopefully include a status bar..... wtf? Lol.

From what I've read, he's hit the wrong nail on the head, but apparently it did fix something.

Sent from my wireless telephonic device.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] adytum:
Some times I wish I knew so much more about linux and android than I do. I'll break out the popcorn and follow brilliant minds figure things out!

Sorry for the useless post, but the thread has already gone pretty downhill.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] JayyWilliams:
Well. Downloaded On My OG EVO With 4.0.4 And...It Works Surprisingly Well. I'm Sold :)

sent from my EVO LTE on the XDA app because Tapatalk hates me -__-
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] starszy:
If it is placebo ..good for me .My DHD with Virtuous Team rom, works really quickly.

I open applications much faster and carousel in sense have nice speed.

CPU and battery usage still at the same level.

THX.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] yahyoh:
guys dose the app need init.d support ?? cuz i'm testing with stock rooted rom and stock kernel and i don't see any difference on my galaxy note2
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ChronoReverse:
It doesn't.

Also, you are very unlikely to see any difference on a new phone from the report backs in this thread.

The GS3, Note2 and N4 users mostly didn't notice any difference. The Skyrocket and i717, while not that fast also haven't seen too much difference (I couldn't detect it in either ICS or JB on my i717).

I'll be giving it a go on a GNex later.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] OmegaBlaze:
IM about to make a video Right NOW.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ChronoReverse:
Excellent. Use the APK version so you can turn it off and on and demonstrate the difference.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] slicingtaco:
Ya same here. I hear a lot of Note 2 users saying it has effected them but the thing is N2 flies.

Maybe on lower dual-core/single-core phones you can tell.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] johnbarry3434:
*affected :)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] bobbyphoenix:
To me I think there is no need to dispute a "placebo" effect as it works for me on a two year old Moto Defy. It's much snappier now. No question about it. It's really not hard to see why it won't work, or work well, on a newer device. The newer phones are already running way better by default. As far as the engineers go I won't dispute their claim either, but what they should (need to) do is explain why it DOES work, and not just say it doesn't work because of such and such. Do a pro and con. Saying it's a placebo because it doesn't look here, or move that, is saying nothing at all in my opinion. As you said in your closing statement: "but apparently it did fix something." This is fact. Just what it fixed is up in the air at this point I guess, but it did fix something for sure.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] polobunny:
This would be good if N7 users didn't report a difference, but some commented and they do. :S
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] GermainZ:
Reminds me of HIMYM.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] sling:
Ive been running on GN2 noticing a very slight difference but hard to tell due to how fast device is out of the box.

Running on my OG EVO shows major improvement
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] herpez:
An IDEA!

Lets put 2 apk in this topic. One PLACEBO one REAL. No one can debug or try to know if its working...

Then we make a pool with APK 1 and 2 and see :)

:laugh:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] psych-major:
I just remove the 1.0 version and installed 1.1 (from the apk) and now the app doesn't start at boot, even though that option is checked.

<edit> Had to reboot twice more for an unrelated issue and now it is starting at boot time. Also, this has greatly improved the performance of gMaps, Tap Paradise Cove and Shipwrecked. It is also noticeably faster interacting with the stock Pantech phone dialer app, but not as dramatic as the other apps I listed.</edit>
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] GTOJim:
This is not using more battery, keeping CPU scaled up, or preventing Deep Sleep as many claim.

Stock batter still at 98% after 12 hours. Please see attached.

Phone is a Galaxy S III
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] cynik21:
I am running cm10 on my gnex with CPU set at conservative. Prior to installing seeder, I was about to rollback to cm9 because my battery consumption significantly increased with cm10 using the same apps.

Now that I have installed seeder, I not only see all my apps starting WAY faster than before, but my battery consumption has dropped down to what seems to be less than I was seeing with cm9.

Navigation starts almost instantly. Maps loads very quickly. Crime city still takes as long to load as before, but no longer do I have significant lag between every few cash pickups I do on my buildings.

I never believe anything until I see it. In this case, I see a very noticeable difference in a good way. Lag is definitely gone.

I also believe that Google engineers aren't dumb. I'm sure the default settings were intentionally set for good reason based on unrealistic expectations as to how users would use the OS. They definitely need to take a second look at obtaining the same results as this app does in a future release of Android.

Kudos to the author for taking the time to track down the lag he was seeing and writing an app that works around the issue. Give him a break. He didn't have to share his findings with the public nor write an app to apply the workaround and then make it available for us to download and try out for free. All developers should charge for their work in the app store. They deserve compensation for their work.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Fry-kun:
Didn't read all the replies, so someone may have already mentioned this...

The correct way of fixing the problem is changing the source of the program that's using /dev/random to use /dev/urandom, instead.

It's a well-known "issue" that /dev/random is blocking and doesn't usually have much data for you to get from it. Most of the time you shouldn't need so much truly random data.. but if you do, it's probably safer to feed it from other random sources: noise from sound card input, radio receivers (wifi/bt/gps), temperature fluctuations, etc.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] jader13254:
Maybe not on your specific device. Devices are different, the os is different and the cpu structure etc is different. --> different experience.

On my device seeder tries to eat my battery, and after removing via Terminal + reboot its back to normal.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] rudeboy150:
Tried the free xda version on my infuriating wildfire s and it was an amazing change in performance hasn't made the phone perfect but it was crap to begin with it has however made a horrible phone into a usable one and probably saved it from a horrible and violent end.. So as a thank you I brought the paid version and installed it on my Nexus 7 which altho it was perfect it is quite a bit snapper then it was without seeder thanks again fella
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] AlexVipXDA:
i'm not sure if i use app, after i need just unistall for delete everything, or i need to flash the xip unistallwer?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] hanut1:
Dude this is damn awsum ....i got a low end phone galaxy ace nd it work lik charm in it lik i opened high memory using gamed nd then press the home button and vbam it came to hame in a millisecond it was lik i cabt believ my eyes :eek:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] icu64:
Wow.... I won't need a new phone for a while o.o
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] debork:
Can someone with a device that does get measurable improvement from rngd try setting read_wakeup_threshold value 1200, write_wakeup_threshold value 3585, and see if you get the same improvement?

Ideally, this would encourage the bucket to fill up naturally past the 3585 point, and sit there mostly. If the theory that most of the lag comes from hardware, once it does reach 3586, the same 'smoothness' should occur...

I'm sitting at 3590 or so and I haven't been able to get my bucket to drop doing anything....SSL with browsers, maps, dropbox, heck even toggling on and off a wpa network (since wpa_supplicant is supposed to be the only thing that actually taps /dev/random)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Proz0r:
I do believe this is a better alternative. Attached is a flashable zip, requires Busybox and a kernel with init.d support. It's a simple init.d script containing the following:

#!/system/bin/sh
busybox sysctl -e -w kernel.random.read_wakeup_threshold=1366;

You can get rid of it by simply erasing the 01randent file from /system/etc/init.d.

I don't know whether or not I'm crazy, but the UI does feel smoother for me.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] polobunny:
If you use the app, simply uninstall it. Nothing else needed.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Superman:
Try replace the update-binary from any zip (flashable). And flash it again.

Superman™
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] olivares.leody:
I renamed it to update.zip but still the same. I copy the system folder from seeder.zip and I placed it from a flashable zip of mine and it is su cessful. Is that ok?

Sent from my iPocket

Thanks for pressing the button
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Superman:
No. I mean u copy other flashable.zip (random) 's update-binary and replace the original update-binary from the seeder.zip.

Superman™
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] olivares.leody:
Sorry I'm just a noob. I don't know what update binary is. Can u teach me what to do? I'm giving u all my thanks.

Sent from my iPocket

Thanks for pressing the button
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Superman:
There is update-binary inside the seeder.zip/META-IF/com/google/android

Superman™
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] olivares.leody:
Thank you so much. Where is the seeder app? I don't see it.

Sent from my iPocket

Thanks for pressing the button
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Superman:
It no app inside. Just replace the update-binary with other update-binary. After just flAsh it

Superman™
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] olivares.leody:
I successfuly flashed it now. I have other init d files. Does it conflict each other? I see minor improvements

Sent from my iPocket

Thanks for pressing the button
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Superman:
Did u see the change?

Superman™
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] olivares.leody:
Yes when I unlock from lockscreen and its fast, from boot up I gues its much faster

Sent from my iPocket

Thanks for pressing the button
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] dragonnn:
Hmmm do we need to put the data from /dev/randmon to /dev/urandmon every 1 s? What will happen when we creat a simlink from /dev/urandmon to /dev/randmon. I have tried this out, seems the system doesn't crash, what is the better way?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ludak021:
I am still testing this Seeder.apk (in apk form only) and I have a bit of a "problem" - after some time apk reverts the state to OFF (from ON obviously :) ). What is the proper way to use the apk? I generaly load it, select "ON" then leave it in background.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Kurre:
It seems that the apk is little cranky and it doesn't want to keep a proper status on the button.. :rolleyes: but no worries, it should still run properly despite what the button says :) check it with the proper terminal command.

Sent from my slimbeaned GNex :)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Ludak021:
oh, thanks for the info. So I should disregard the state button, it should be working, okay, gotcha!

PS. Something really do load faster, and some things work faster when opened, ES file explorer for instance. My problem is that Nova launcher gets laggy when Seeder is working. Scrolling home screens is no longer smooth for instance (and I am on JB with buttery smooth...phone is single core 1.2ghz but it works fine if seeder is not running)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] STELIOSFAN:
I managed to read a couple of pages :)

So please correct me if I'm wrong.... I should only download the apk, install it, reboot and ready and if I don't want it any more, just uninstall and no harm done? This sounds fantastic....

I'm on a custom rom 4.1.2 Galaxy S3
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] STELIOSFAN:
Well, its faster but I've experienced some hangs in gmail. Will test further
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] jr_718:
You might want to clear cache& data...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] STELIOSFAN:
on gmail or on any other app that may hang due to this app ?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] jr_718:
Gmail
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] orangekid:
That is a good solution for app developers, not for users. This is a good solution for users because for every app that does use /random instead of /urandom now has data to "feed" off. A better solution for users would be something akin to permissions fixer that actually goes through every app and finds/changes that command line to point to /urandom but of course I don't know that such a script could be devised. For now this is a good solution until a better one is found, but, for older devices especially, this is an awesome tweak that seems to be making a lot of people happy.

Why it works exactly technically speaking is actually of secondary importance and it would be better if we tried to help OP figure it out than to blindly opine on the matter, but the fact of the matter is that the seeder IS improving some performance on devices and it does not appear to just be OCing, OVing, or just scaling a governor or an IO scheduler, so it is certainly worth looking into.

Inferring that the OP is less than honest or nefarious or just acting condescendingly toward him or this tweak is puerile and in my view goes against the atmosphere this forum tries to convey, which is to actually help real development and figure out why things operate as they do. He's made some kind of breakthrough, now let's enjoy it and dissect it instead of just stating why it theoretically shouldn't be improving performance. It may be under the hood, it may be below the Dalvik VM level, or whatever the actual cause may be.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] OmegaBlaze:
As promised!

[YOUTUBE]PYJfZK8tyH4[/YOUTUBE]
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] brianoh:
Hi, was wondering if anyone could help me. I flashed "Seeder_v5.zip" and have noticed a hit in my battery life. Is there a way to unflash it or undo it?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] lupp0l0:
I think you're not crazy. I've got performance improvements setting read_wakeup_threshold=768.

I will try other values, for now I'm satisfied with 768
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] goodtimes50:
I flashed a script from earlier in the thread that set it to 1376. Is there a reason you went with 1366? Is it likely to matter?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] OmegaBlaze:
Use the app instead of the zip.. There is also a zip to uninstall it somewhere around here.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] lambgx02:
Hey guys,

Just wanted to say a few things -

1. My initial analysis (dalvik reading /dev/random) does indeed not apply on ICS, Jellybean, etc.

2. Nevertheless, it seems that rngd does have a significant effect on these builds for some people, including me.

3. I'm going through the kernel's RNG code right now trying to figure out if perhaps there's some lock contention, or something else funky going on. I have entropy debugging turned on, and there are a *lot* of nonblocking reads going on, constantly.

4. Perhaps it is just kicking the governor, but I don't see any change to time_in_state with it running. I suspect it really has something to do with the input entropy pool.

I never expected Seeder to take off like this; it's a little scary. I initially published a build, and had very positive feedback on XDA, so decided to put something on the marketplace. Though I've been a *nix admin and coder for a while, this is my first Android app.

It doesn't seem to work the way I thought it did on later Android builds, and I will get to the bottom of this.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] zeppelinrox:
I'm inclined to think that its due to less background activity.

Wonder if logcats can turn up anything...

Oh if you don't have busybox you can do:

echo 1376 > /proc/sys/kernel/random/read_wakeup_threshold

ah I started using 1376 just because its a multipe of 16 :p
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] emd2009:
will try this thanks
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] LeoPosas:
One question, recommendable the APK or the binary called from script?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] brianoh:
Yes, in hindsight I should have done that. I flashed to v6 as there is a v6 uninstall zip that you can flash. Is there a way to see if the zip is in fact inactive after?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ChronoReverse:
Hmm, can't really say the difference is night and day. Then again if you're running at 200MHz, it's not surprising that there's lag in XDA scrolling either way.

Sent from my Galaxy Note!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Yze:
im guessing busybox MUST be installed for the seeder apk file to work correctly? or no?

this command: 'watch -n 1 cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail' glitches for me.. so i tried: 'pgrep rngd' and the values returned are:

250

1954

does that mean its not working/running correctly?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] rmagruder:
First of all, no matter what this all turns out to be, I think I speak for a lot of people who appreciate your work. There's a lot of haters, please ignore them. They are outnumbered by those that are happy you're doing this research, wherever it leads.

Secondly, I think the #1 question on my mind is....who is doing all this reading? Over on code.google.com, it is being emphasized that nothing except Wi-Fi AP, SSL ticket generation and one other thing I forget, are doing anything with dev/random. So the claim is that there's NO reason to be exhausting this pool. Another dev said that it is the ASLR randomization in Linux being called from the Kernel and enabled in 4.1+ of Android, but again, denying that could be exhausting the pool. So, if someone is doing tons of reads of dev/random, or dev/urandom, depending, what on earth is doing it and why is that so hard to find? :(

You've now intrigued Steve Kondik over at code.google.com, so I'm going to be watching with popcorn in hand as this investigation continues.

Thanks!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] lambgx02:
Once I'm satisfied I know why it still works, I'm going to build a new version that suspends/resumes the daemon on screen off/on events to eliminate any theoretical battery drain. So, for end-users I would suggest the APK; I'll of course be posting them to this thread.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] OmegaBlaze:
That's how i feel. If the difference isn't night and day, it doesn't work. However, if the app does work, my theory is that it will have no choice but to show some slight of difference if the kernel is set that low.

Someone give me another test and i'll do it!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] o0BlacknesS0o:
What about write_wakeup_threshold.... should that be altered as well... Mine is currently set at 256...read_wakeup_threshold was originally 128

Samsung Galaxy SIII powered by CleanROM
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Eomo:
Bought the app anyways!

Hey dude, bought the app in the app store anyways, just to support you. Keep up the good work!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Neuz:
Agree
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] nowster:
Has anyone tried using anything like the following from an adb shell?

#!/system/bin/sh
while true
do
busybox dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/random bs=1024 count=1 2>/dev/null
sleep 2
done
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] osowiecki:
Any chance for a port for Android 2.1?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] maurogg84:
I have a gs3 I did notice some difference especially using this forum app, scrolling is much smoother, before webpages seemed to load kind of slow even with 4g, now they load quicker and I have a smoother scroll.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] troyboytn:
I have now tried the 1.1 app on my original Evo 4g and on my Evo 3d (and we all know that Sence 3.6 has lags....no matter what rom or kernel and no matter how much overclock).

There is a SIGNIFICANT improvement on the 4g (though not completely lagfree).

The 3d is now COMPLETELY LAGFREE no matter how hard I tax the damn thing....multiple intensive apps open in the background etc.

Needless to say, I'm sold. This is not a placebo effect in any way. Truthfully, this is likely not to get the same noticable results on all phones like the s4 Snapdragon or other quad-core based devices but it's more than likely to shed good results for last years and older devices.

Now, I've been around XDA long enough to know how things operate here.

9 out of 10 extremist nay sayers here are only pissed that they didn't think of it first and will argue til the day they die that it doesn't work. Also expect others to crawl out of the woodwork and try to claim credit. This is a sad reality, but it's just that.....

Thank you OP! Great work! For the first time I'm glad I held on to my due upgrade instead of using it for an S3 or God forbid an Evo LTE(yikes. dodged a bullet on that one for sure). :D
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] letmeputdatipin:
Will the app still work if I save it to SD card?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] xuser:
Try opening apps like phone, gallery, or any other app that usually take time to start up. Force close the apps before you open them with and without Seeder enabled, to ensure a cold start on both tests.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] 063_XOBX:
An OS that's been dead for 2 years? Doubtful.