yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] t4d73:
Hmmm. I didn't have to restart. I just shut it off. But yeah battery is no longer losing rapidly and device isn't on fire lol. But I must say that someone with an older single core device or lower would probably have real benefit from this. And yeah I'm repeating what has already been stated about older devices with this app on like every page of this thread lol.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Doma93:
an immediately visible significant performance improvement on htc wildfire. worked like a charm. thanks!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] goodtimes50:
Just curious, is just adding "sysctrl -w kernel.random.read_wakeup_threshold=1376" to an init.d script sufficient to address the lack of entropy or is it really necessary to install the other stuff (rngd, entro, seeder scripts)?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] kairos_316:
thanks

gracias en verdad funciona, excelente desarrollador
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] fivefour:
Could you try SuperSU and see if the issue remains?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] cocchiararo:
That was not AS fast as seeder 1.2.4 on my friend's Optimus 3d running 2.2.2
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] rlorange:
Just thought I'd say thank you to the dev for having the balls to follow a hunch with this. A lot of people would not have the self belief to persue this against the status quo and would fear the inevitable flack and skepticism to come.

Sometimes things get over looked by the established experts and sometimes it takes a non-expert to try something that doesn't fit into the theoretical framework, thus an innovation like this often comes from tinkerers following a hunch.

This app is definitely NOT placebo in my opinion and YES this is subjective and there is far more going on than just keeping the device on a higher frequency.

I'm no expert but I'm very experienced with Android and have come from the S1 and S2 now the S3 so I've tried a lot of different combinations of firmware and kernels and everything else related.

This is the first truely innovative new tweak in a long time which has a subtle but unmistakable effect and no battery penalty. CPU spy, battery stats wake lock completely unaffected.

I decided to try to EMULTAE the subjective boost in performance this mod provides by using Governor tweaks, sysctl etc. And to match the effect required a CPU scaling which massively drained battery and a huge min-free which made multi-tasking impossible.

As mentioned before even if your phone is a super-fast beast like mine. App switching lag is massively reduced especially with crazy low min-free settings which would normally produce lag.

Maybe the long running debate about free-memory-is-wasted memory is some how tied up in this entropy anomaly because now maxed out memory doesn't lag with this mod... it never SHOULD have in theory but SOMETHING in Android has never match up with this theory.

Anyways this is hands down the most interesting development in a long time and getting to the bottom of it will be fascinating to follow.

For anyone not experiencing a clear effect, as mentioned here before, the normal gradual decline in performance common to ALL Android devices after a prolonged uptime is massively reduced for me.

A very subjective thing that becomes more obvious after a while is that this mod keeps the device "fresh" like it was just rebooted.

I was skeptical but now I'm just fascinated to see how this develops as there is no doubt in my mind that this mod, more importantly the IDEA behind this mod has revealed that entropy is somehow behind a fundamental flaw at the heart of Android.

Be afraid Apple be VERY AFFRAID! :)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] anazhd:
Placebo or not, haters gonna hate.

First page of this page is lagging badly when browsing using xda app. 1500++ thanks ( so many names on that page )
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] rlorange:
I think skepticism is healthy and the experts generally agree now that there is something to it beyond placebo or hype. Clearly this has stumbled on something overlooked (entropy) that was overlooked by the heavy weights simply because the technical details that few understand and the theory behind entropy dictated that it SHOULDN'T matter.

Since there is an aknowleged effect and the mod is based around a theory that can't be debunked outright the awesome open source community will now unravel the mystery and we all benefit.

Die hard skeptics with expert knowledge will likely not be convinced until the exact details of exactly how this works are known.

This exact situation happened all the time in the history of Science. For every 100 non-experts who think they have stumbled on the solution that has eluded the experts, 1 is genuine and 99 are mix of placebo, crack pot ideas, or outright fraud.

But just like science if something like this stands up to rigorous scrutiny then it will prevail.

As it stands this has stood up to the first attack. The dev is not on an ego trip and clearly the idea behind it is novel so hasn't been debunked previously.

The second test is the huge positive feedback from total noobs and experienced users alike. The Shear weight of anecdotal evidence from subjective experience can't be ignored and it wasn't.

The third test is probably coming setting up a contrived and repeatable conditions which will tease out the very subjective nature of the perceived effect... if solid evidence can be found then the heavy weights on goggles pay roll will not rest until the mystery is solved and exploited. As a matter of professional pride they will have to!

Whatever comes from this it's damn interesting...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Chairmansaab:
Don't know why but proccess always close itself after sometime. Entropy drops to very low and i have to tap seeder app every few minutes

Hope it get fix soon.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] wizguy101:
Working perfectly thx.

Sent from my douchbag by an advanced email.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] rlorange:
I had this with every version up to 1.2.9

Are you running supercharger or have aggressive memory settings? It my be being killed for memory demands.

IMO this app means running aggressive min free settings (Supercharger default) are not needed as the lag created by low free memory is the very type of lag that this app fixes! And you keep your multi tasking! ;)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Mikito1976:
First of all Kudos to the dev for the work done, for the time put up on this app, specially for the commitment of keeping up with the updates to fix any problem that any user may have had and last but not least for not giving up on the app after encountering non believers, keep it up.

In my humble opinion, although I'm not a developer, I am not a newbie on the scene. Flashing, testing, etc. I've been through that path many times. This app does work for me, remember, it's my experience and opinion. I have it installed on two of my daily devices; my NookColor and my LG Esteem 4G LTE phone, both which are old devices. My phone is faster than before, even after rooting it, over clocking it, etc. there was always that annoying long lag but after reading about this app and giving it a try the performance of my phone is much better and as well on my NookColor, giving that both devices only have 512MB they will always have some type of lag but with this app I have less lag on both devices and that is for sure. Once again thanks to the dev and keep up the hard work.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] CaptainCalculus:
This is very interesting to me as the app seems to work fine from boot, and then at some point the lag finds its way back. I can imagine it is because of my memory settings, I'm pretty sure I've got it running aggressive. I'm going to turn all other enhancement apps off and see how this fairs on its own.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] rlorange:
I used the script during early versions of the app which didn't seem to want to stay running. Like you i "felt" when it wasn't running. If you go back to Seeder via recent apps and for a second the entropy meter is low then jumps to near full you can be sure the app service has been killed somehow and quickly restarts when you select it. but since the latest few versions this issue has gone for me.

It should be possible to bullet-proof this app I'd imagine with a build.prop edit or something?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] rhogz:
I'm always playing heavy games like MC3, TDKR etc. This mod reduces the lags. I also used to play Temple Run Brave before, and at the middle of the game I noticed lags which is very frustrating. But now when I tried to play Temple Run Brave with seeder enabled, I noticed a big improvement. Seeder is working on my device, definitely not a placebo effect.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] tuscolavol:
I'll try SuperSU but I replied to the question "If you're not having issues, which one do you use?"

I've had zero issues with any of the apk's.

Sent from my EVO
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] nobooya:
It doesn't speed up my phone, at least on android 4.1 and 4.2. I just tested it a little (seeder 1.3.1) and the reason system feels much smoother is because entropy generator keeps cpu at higher frequency.

It's actually pretty easy to check if it's placebo or real boost. Set your cpu governor to performance (it keeps cpu at max frequency all the time) then use phone a little. Enable entropy generator and compare if it's working better. You can lower your max frequency so you can feel it's working slower (it's easier to catch any improvements)

I didn't experience any boost in speed, actually the battery was draining faster. I could feel it's working better but only when I choose governor that scales cpu depending on the usage, that means for me seeder keeps cpu at higher clock.

Hmm you could ask why people are experincing better battery life with this if it rises cpu frequency. Well I think that's because cpu needs more time to execute the same things while at lower frequency, and less time with higher frequency. Second option might be more battery friendly as we don't have to keep phone awake so long.

Maybe other hardware acts differently, I don't know. I'm just sharing what I saw on my phone. I don't have access to my second phone right now, so I can't check how it behaves with other hardware. Anyway thanks for trying to make android better :)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] mw86:
For me it added no cpu usage at all. Im on Ktoonservative governor using

Up threshold 95

Down threshold 85

Up hotplug 99

Down hotplug 94

Sample rate 10,100

Frequency step 2

96-2106mhz

Im idling at single core 96mhz and mostly sits there while idle (yes screen on) even watching a youtube video its mostly at 96mhz single and a jump here and there to 144/192mhz. But when not in use cpu usage is steady and have had no added cpu load. Your explanation may be true to your phone. Its the complete opposite for mine.

GS3 L710 4.2.1 AOSP Kt747 2.1Ghz ROW/Ktoonservative *Tapatalk
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] t4d73:
Maybe you're right. Maybe Google has already figured this out on later versions and is why we don't see much improvement with the app. I actually do on my epic touch running stock jellybean. But it definitely does not, as far as I'm concerned, have an affect on the cpu. If you download the system tuner free app, or cpu spy app, also free, you will see that this app doesn't do anything to the cpu.

Edit: Sorry I was quoting mw86.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] mw86:
Exactly and i also see improvement on 4.2.1, 4.1.1 and 4.1.2

GS3 L710 4.2.1 AOSP Kt747 2.1Ghz ROW/Ktoonservative *Tapatalk
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] rlorange:
Perhaps background processes affected by low entropy is causing lags when playing games?

Seeder seems to prevent deep seated Android stuff associated with system stuff and apps.

This is almost ubiquitous on Android. High end devices seem to bulldoze over these with shear brute force. Project butter too.

Its testament that Seeder works that even on high end devices what little inexplicable lag remains it noticeably diminished.

clearly there shouldn't be this residual on a beast of a phone and the experts tell us that a bigger entropy shouldn't help. If no non-entropy side effect can't be accounted for (and I can't find anything different on CPU wake/sleep stats) then logically entropy HAS to be at the core of the performance boost.

For every common platform increased preforms AKWAYS comes with an obvious battery cost and produces measurable differences in CPU scaling etc. Modded kennels squeeze a bit more out with clearly known and established techniques. But this is a total wild card guys.

-An obvious boost to performance to a wide variety of devices and android versions.

-No obvious change in battery drain or anything else that shows up in normal Android stat apps.

-A non-standard method to achieve this which shouldn't work yet is conceptually not impossible...

I can't remember anything so anomalous. Almost getting something for nothing and elusive.

One can dream that once Android heavy weights figure this out they will be able to fully exploit it and banish lag forever!

I would love to see what seeder does for an old S1 running early eclair and it's OUTRAGOUS lag problems he he

---------- Post added at 10:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 AM ----------

Exactly my thoughts. I think project butter and JB has used every trick in the book to reduce UI stuttering and the PERCEPTION of lag is much reduced.

Users report seeder having an effect on a huge range of hardware and android versions. So logically it must be tapping into something deep in the Android/Linux interface to do with entropy which can't be directly accounted for so its importance has been overlooked.

If you look at how JB achieves butter on high end devices it ramps up CPU efficiently enough to ensure triple-buffering etc as a priority. Earlier versions of Android didn't have the refined code or hardware horse power to achieve this without unacceptable battery drain.

The question I have is this:

If a lack of entropy was contributing to Android lag from early versions unaccounted for then once fully accounted for could Android achieve the performance of JB butter with less aggressive CPU scaling?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] t4d73:
Good question. We'll see I guess. With Samsung's release of the octo core processor they might actually be the first to nail it. It's supposed to be 1 quad core for multitasking, playing games, and another for when the device is idle. Although I think it's a little ridiculous to have an octo core in a phone, it would be pretty cool.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] rlorange:
Well yeah more brute force will eliminate lag eventually I guess but if low entropy is fully exploited into core android and works as well or better than seen by this mod then maybe the ui can achieve JB butter smoothness and better but with less CPU/GPU overhead. With JB to make sure triple buffering has enough CPU/GPU to not fail and general improved performance over ICS the CPU ramping is very aggressive and overkill. Just touching the screen holds the CPU at 800 or 1000mhz
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] GabrielSebastianMoise:
Good point. I think there might be a problem with the applications. I'm not a programmer so I don't know how an app is writen for Android and how interacts with the Android OS. Drawing a parallel to Microsoft. For many years, we have 64 bit operating OS. But after many years, we're still using 80% of apps written in 32 bit. There are not a lot of 64 bit apps. For example the common software like video players, music players, Antiviruses.

So what if the biggest problem with the lag, is all about , how the software is written. In android market when a new version of an app is released, says that major improvement , reduces lag, improves performance etc......

For example 64bit Winrar is much faster than 32 bit version. So back to android, ..... the OS is in continuing development, was improved, as it can be said about applications? Have they matured along with the Android operating system, or just got more so-called integration patch the new version of android?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] 063_XOBX:
Seeing as the available API's for them to call on changes with every OS I'd say they do. Not to mention the adoption of the Holo theme into a lot of the more popular apps.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] rlorange:
Yeah everything is valid and totally true. I guess I mean if there is something amis in the fundamentals of Android to with entropy then this layer is below the dalvik virtual machine layer so everything will be affected because the experts already tell us Dalvik VM operations shouldn't be directly accessing entropy via random pool yet it appears to be depleting anomalously and if drained completely is a blocking event at the kernel/Android interface level. So there isn't a direct drain on entropy from the dalvik/app level its happening in an anomalous way and the lags are appearing all over the shop. Google maps clearly drains entropy massively as does android memory management (my hunch I'm no expert) because Seeder has an obvious effect to elimitate multitasking app-swutching lag and map tile loading as its most repeatable effect. Obviously not all lag is related to entropy but until this is thoroughly understood who knows how its slowing up Android overall on a global level?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] zybach:
Working on my sensation xe running on latest elegancia ROM and latest PYD kernel.phone is running smooth.

I've installed the early v1.0 and this latest build is even better.

Thanks for the nice share.hope it gets even more better
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] fivefour:
A.) Seeder is launching an ARM C compiled binary as root, the Seeder application can be killed by OOM but the rngd binary is not being killed by OOM (no need to bulletproof).

B.) Many applications call libs (libraries) and native compiled binary files, these Android applications most definitely pull from the entropy pool while executing the native code.

Examples:

Chrome

Any Media Player | Sound or Video

Dialer

Maps

etc...etc

Many parts of Android rely on native code to execute not only Java bytecode.

The argument about Dalvik VM not pulling from the kernel entropy pool is moot because of the above reasons.

It is known that with each execution of native code the entropy pool depletes.

Example:

Turn Seeder off

Open Terminal and execute this a few times for demonstration.

cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail

With each execution of a native binary (cat in this case), entropy depletes.

I hope this helps explain how Seeder is working and even accelerates the function of some applications.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] andrasandhi:
like this?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] rlorange:
Love it thank you. My posts are pure layman speculation but I'm not afraid to maybe sound like I don't know what I'm talking about because I self learn from input like yours from people that know more than me.

Thank you! :)

---------- Post added at 05:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:25 PM ----------

So apps "sand-boxed" coded to run in the Dalvik VM would not benefit from Seeder as much?

Or do the native apps that directly deplete entropy trigger lags on a "global" android scale that affect even apps aren't naive?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] fivefour:
Being the entire Android UI in 4.X is hardware accelerated all applications should see some benefit as with each new application launch the GPU libs are being executed. (speculation as I'm unsure if the libs are being constantly used or simply loaded once at boot)

In prior revisions of Android I imagine a full bytecode (java) application will still see some improvement from a high entropy pool.

Background application's are constantly being killed and started as Android sees fit, the likelihood of one app causing another to lag would be speculation without further research.

I'm not an expert when it comes to Android system function as a whole, I'm simply a kernel developer with a high level of Linux knowledge.

Your welcome :D
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] jugster:
It is not only during loading entropy is used surely? Each time the libraries that once have been loaded uses randomness entropy is used surely.

As far as I know there is only this single pool of entropy that everybody uses.

And the fact that the entropy pool is diminishing seems to indicate that background applications use it all the time.

Not an expert either.

Signature? Signature!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] thronnos:
Just something I noticed. As soon as I leave the app the available entropy drops to about about "half" the max available that the app displays. I am unsure if it drops lower, but whenever I reenter the app, even if it's just a second later the entropy is at half. But it always jumps to full as soon as the app is granted perms. Why is this?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] fivefour:
Because when launching Seeder some entropy is depleted.

It's why when you background Seeder by hitting the home key and come back entropy is full.

Seeder makes calls to su/touch/chown/kill/rm binaries...entropy depletes quite a bit.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] mw86:
It was highly recommended to just maintain stock write_wakeup_threshold of 128 thats only thing i see off.

Edit:

So too the OP I think someone thinks they can make an app and suddenly add it to the play store also and admitedly based on your thread. It uses the systctrl method.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zdvdev.sef

Just thought id let you know i seen this browsing apps. Seems very copycat but i am not a developer so i dont know how all that works anyway.

GS3 L710 4.2.1 AOSP Kt747 2.1Ghz ROW/Ktoonservative *Tapatalk
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] koolbrader:
Hey guys, I've been seeing a battery drain everytime I use seeder and I might have found the cause but it's confusing me.

So i've used seeder since it was 1.0 and it always has this drain. All the way up to 1.2.4 it seems to keep my phone awake every few minutes but every release above 1.2.4 has fixed that and yet I still have a battery drain issue.

Now that i'm on 1.3.1, my GSam battery monitor and my Android battery monitor seems to show that Maps app is taking up 97% of my battery. I don't even use maps. I've force stopped it and disabled maps for now and it's slowing down the battery drain but it's still draining faster than usual.

As of now my phone is down to 77% with only 6 hours of usage. Usually down to around 50% after a full day of usage.

Battery drain seems to be gone when I switch off seeder so it's definitely caused by seeder. Does anybody have this maps problem or battery drain problem? How can I stop this?

Here's some extra info about my phone

Model : Jiayu G3

Processor : MTK 6577 dual-core 1.0ghz

Battery capacity : 2750mah (Lasts for 2 Days++)

Android version : 4.0.4

Seeder version : 1.3.1
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] vesper007:
I dunno why, but the 1.3.1 version doesn't work very well at all on my xperia x10 running cm10. It obtains root just fine and entropy goes up to 4096, but for some reason the phone is still very slow and the seeder app itself takes forever to open. I've switched to 1.2.8 version which works extremely well and launches quickly and has really made my phone blazing fast and smooth. So if you're having problems with the latest version, I suggest you roll back to ver 1.2.8.