yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 4 General] Shaky156:
Im sitting back & laughing, cause half the trollers are from iphone users I get it iphones dying a painful death so you wnt to jump to an awsome device like the nexus 4, but you dont need to troll, you see an android device is super kool, unlike iphone if there is anything wrong with the device its software which can be changed, we dont have to wait months for our manufactures to release anything, i mean look at htc desire hd, geniuses put ice cream sandwich, jellybean and a kernel3.0+!!

Ok iphone maps OMG must be a hw issue looks like GPS, WAIT maybe its an lte issue or an nfc issue lmao

If you guys fail to understand basics like software hasnt been optmized there isnt any point in going into technical detail cause you will def fail to understand that lol!

Dont be afraid we more than welcome iphone users but things work differently here, welcome to the world of awsomeness!

Anyways im done defending the n4
[Nexus 4 General] PlanBSTi:
Yes I do,

You actually need to put in the code "This is a 4 core CPU" On a OS level you might not. But in apps you have to if you want to take full advantage of it.

What i'm saying it apps don't utilized the additional cores will overheat the ones being worked eg 1 and 3. And somewhere possible in the code it detects those core are being 60c and starts to throttle to prevent it from overheating Vs spreading the load onto 2nd and 4th cores.

This is being built on 4.2 not 4.1 a lot of things are changed. Somethings could be over looked such as what i'm taking about.

When you got a problem in program you don't just have one possible solution, you have a few. Those possible solutions could cause some other things to act funky.

Take Bf3 for an example. it doesn't take full advantage of my 8 thread CPU. only 6 or so threads are being used. 2 are idling. The difference of my cores could be 10-15c sometimes.

In a small area like a phone. There isn't really a place for it to get fresh air and to exhaust the hot air out. Causing the whole phone to heat up when it doesn't need to be.

I'm not developer but that's how I see it.
[Nexus 4 General] wurzelsepp3:
You must be kidding?

That's a feature! Each core is ajusting its clockspeed according to the load, to save battery.

Other Tegra 3 and Exynos Quadcores can't clock cores independently.
[Nexus 4 General] mejobloggs:
The results in the OP are have actually been benchmarked in a freezer by the looks of it.

Exactly the same numbers as this:

http://techie-buzz.com/mobile-news/...es-show-the-real-power-of-the-s4-pro-soc.html

So thermal issue not fixed unless you live in Antarctica :p
[Nexus 4 General] PlanBSTi:
It is a feature. Maybe it's late and I'm not thinking correctly but that's what I'm saying the fault lies. Programs / apps aren't taken advantage of that. Causing the poor performance in benchmarks. They rely on the standard 2 core. That its been used to. Almost leaving the other 2 cores idling

There no way a crazy high performance cpu being used in the n4 having trouble to keep up with its competitors with lessen power houses
[Nexus 4 General] wurzelsepp3:
The first Galaxy Nexus benchmarks were worse then those of most single core phones.

(It scored only 1500) benchmarks mean nothing especially when the are running on a unreleased version of Android.
[Nexus 4 General] Destroz:
I thought than tegra 3 got 4 cores full speed and a 500mhz fifth core. Isn't the same but well xD
[Nexus 4 General] xpla:
Here it isn't available via PlayStore so it will cost me € 549,- that's about $ 700,- so know what? I don't pay 700 $ for an unfinished phone which may or may not mature at the customer.
[Nexus 4 General] Yves88:
Then don't buy it until the price starts dropping, just like de Galaxy Nexus' price did.

Or wait a year and hope that by that time the Play Store sells the Nexus 5 in your country. Simple as that.
[Nexus 4 General] Duckie92:
Seriously, that's a lame excuse. There are so many ways to buy it from country's where it's cheap. Put some effort in it, and you can have it for the same price as on Google store.

For the rest, when I buy a phone, I don't buy it to run heavy benchmarks all day long with it.
[Nexus 4 General] thenext1:
You actually don't know.

You're basically implying that all software born in the single-core era (eg. many games from yesterday) makes multi-core CPUs get hotter. This is false. What is true, is that single-core optimized software can't exploit a multicore CPU to its full extent. When the software becomes multi-core ready, more cores will be awake and actively computing (along with the app's performance increasing), so the CPU will be drawing more power and getting hotter. That's logics 1-0-1.

On the other hand, we're talking of CPU core management related to the current load. A good CPU should keep as most cores possible in a sleep state, so that if a single-core optimized software runs, 3 out of 4 cores will be sleeping almost all the time. This control, as far as I know, is almost entirely beyond the operating system's reach.

You can't control which cores you want your app to run in (actually you can, but it's unusual and bad programming practice).

Multi core CPU's already implement that kind of load balancing you mean, just look at the windows task manager when you run a single-core task (eg. benchmarks with 1 thread)... the load will actually switch from time to time.

It's for these reasons I'm worried we will have to put up with flawed hardware, at least in the first batches until a rev2 comes out.

I hope I have been clear.
[Nexus 4 General] Duckie92:
Samsung Galaxy 3 in Europe is quad core. So saying there are hardly any quad cores out there shows you have no clue about the market.
[Nexus 4 General] lnfound:
Anyone not convinced on the 4 go listen to Engadget mobile from yesterday.

Also there's an OTA due on the 11th,i think it's best too reserve any judgement until then. Besides, with all the review phones out you've got too be crazy to think Google is unaware of the situation and the second thoughts its core early adopters are having based on the benches.
[Nexus 4 General] BlueScreenJunky:
I think you shouldn't pay 550€ for ANY phone, since no phone in existence is good enough to justify such a price tag (plus there's always a risk it will get stolen, lost or broken even if you're careful). Just wait untill the Nexus 4 is available on the play store at it's intended price or get a cheaper phone.

I paid around 550€ for the Galaxy S2 (international) about 2 years ago and while on it's own it's a great phone, I was still kinda disappointed by it's flaws (crappy audio out, blue tint on the screen when you're not right in front of it, crappy autofocus) that were IMO not acceptable for a phone that expensive. Now If I'm paying half the price I'm willing to forgive a few flows, and I'll just buy a new (and better) phone a little sooner.
[Nexus 4 General] limpopo:
I recommend everyone listen to Anandtech's latest podcast, Episode 9, where Brian Klug discusses this and other Nexus 4 questions.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6438/the-anandtech-podcast-episode-9

There is Nexus 4 stuff at around 49 to 53 minutes and also 61 minutes to 85 minutes.

Overall, he loves the phone, but is seeing thermal issues. He attributes this partly to conservative firmware thresholds, but partly also to a slightly weak hardware implementation in terms of cooling (heatsink and paste). He notes that Tegra 3 throttles on him all the time, but he has not encountered that with dual-core Krait. I guess quad-core Krait could just be stretching things a little in terms of feasible cooling in small form factors.

Nevertheless, I expect we could see some tweaking of the software thresholds in the final 4.2 release from Google. Yes, this is all speculation at this point, but I seriously doubt that any hardware issues - if they exist - can get fixed in any timeframe below a couple of months (time to distribution) unless they are already working on that.
[Nexus 4 General] thenext1:
This.

---------- Post added at 02:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:57 PM ----------

But if you had known in advance of these defects, would you have buyed it anyway?
[Nexus 4 General] USSENTERNCC1701E:
I remember micro managing processor affinity in Windows before software support for multi-core CPU's really caught on. Used to spend 10 minutes manually shifting every single process to core 0 only so I could run a game one core 1 alone, was really a noticeable boost in performance. A mostly obsolete practice now.
[Nexus 4 General] [hfm]:
Apple is in the same boat, how many times have they screwed up. Antennagate, maps, all sorts of release issues. I bought my GNex last Nov and it crashed all the time until they finally fixed it. There are always problems even if it's HW they'll work around it. Might take months. I know what I'm getting into by buying this phone. Anyone who thinks there will be zero issues is kidding themselves.
[Nexus 4 General] richteralan:
So don't buy it.
[Nexus 4 General] RoadHazard:
If the issue is poor hardware design with regards to cooling, there can be no real "workaround", only compromises that make the phone perform worse than it should (like the aggressive thermal throttling they seem to be doing). If this is the case, the N4 will never be able to reach its full potential (unless they redesign the actual hardware).
[Nexus 4 General] FatalityBoyZahy:
I want to see a review of game play on the Nexus 4.
[Nexus 4 General] ttilits:
when we can expect revison 2 of nexus 4 in

uk?
[Nexus 4 General] gideonMorrison:
Sorry to say but you have to be borderline retarded to ask that question. People these days....
[Nexus 4 General] xpla:
In two weeks ...
[Nexus 4 General] kydkupa:
This is an Antutu bench run. My optimus g scores slightly better.
[Nexus 4 General] italia0101:
does it get Hot? can you run a quadrant ?
[Nexus 4 General] Shaky156:
Mwahahaha i know why the benches arent sky high if i manage to get a hold of the device i definitely want to show u guys how a benchmarks done!
[Nexus 4 General] cbutters:
There are lots of reasons why the thermal throttling might be kicking in, and not all of them mean that some sort of performance hit has to take place to fix the issue.

Perhaps the kernel has way too low of a thermal threshold that hasn't been adjusted on pre-release software. The fix for this is software based and wouldn't be a performance limiting fix.

Perhaps the voltages supplying the processors hasn't quite been nailed down, and in the review units, they opted for a baseline voltage for the processor that would eliminate the chance of any stability problems, but hasn't quite been optimized for the device making it run hotter than usual... Once again, the fix for this would be software based, lowering the voltages down to optimal specifications, and would not be a performance limiting fix.

Software and hardware is intimately connected, I have an incredible amount of confidence that the production devices that are shipped out with finalized software will have resolved these issues, without a performance hit.

Think about it... this is basically the same as the Optimus G right... well LG obviously got the Optimus G running just fine with almost the exact same internals, now with LG AND google together, I think they will figure it out.

everyone is going nuts over preproduction hardware & software that shouldn't be evaluated as such... (I do blame google for sending out unfinalized products for review)
[Nexus 4 General] wngmv:
Could someone explain to me what that means?

I'm in no way expert on hardware, and all the talk about thermal throttling is unsettling -- especially as to if a hardware design fault exists.
[Nexus 4 General] RoadHazard:
The Optimus G and the N4 may have the same internal components for the most part, but those components are not housed in the same casing, so maybe the problem lies in how the latter is designed? Anyway, I really hope you're right, but I'm gonna take a wait-and-see approach on this one.
[Nexus 4 General] wngmv:
Major clusterf$$k. I can't believe Google hyped the device to the sky, then unknowingly (no excuses) sent out devices with such major flaws to the people to whom ordinary folks turn to when seeking opinion on a device.
[Nexus 4 General] italia0101:
Thermal Throttling is a defence against damaging hardware

it is set by a number ( the temperature from a sensor) in an XML file inside the device, in this case i believe its 60, when the sensor reads 60, it downclocks the cpu and gpu in order to keep the heat down, if it reaches the last limit (120) the phone shuts off to prevent damage.

The reason this is a big deal to us, is because if throttles that quickly we dont get the full performance of the device, and for example in games , it might slow down and become unplayable as it down clocks.

Lets hope that its fixed when its released , as the S4 PRO is a beast and i would be annoyed if we cant see its full potential , just just for benchmarks, but for gaming and other tasks
[Nexus 4 General] wngmv:
Thanks. I guess we really don't know if the throttling was due to software (being throttled at too low a temperature) or a hardware design. That makes me a little nervous as to if I should go ahead with the device. The only comfort is that knowing I won't be playing a lot games on N4 anyway.
[Nexus 4 General] jay2the1:
I'm reading about the 'heat' and the phone 'gets hot' when running benchmarks, but what does this mean in the real world?

Will the phone suffer adversely in normal usage or when playing games? will it actually get hot when playing real world games like GTA3, because we all know benchmarks push the CPU and GPUs to unrealistic limits.

Also finally can this actually damage the phone? if a game does push the limits of the phone, you may be playing for 3/4 of an hour to an hour (maybe with a gamepad so you don't even feel the phone getting hot) will that sustained heat damage, shorten the life or even kill the phone?
[Nexus 4 General] PlanBSTi:
If you can list me 10 quad core phones running android ill give it you.

S3

HTC one x

LG Optimus 4x hd

Hauwei ascend d quad (xl)

Lg optimus g

So that's about 6. Out of the hundreds and hundreds of phones running android devices. That's still barely any. That probably equals out to less then 5% if that's a good amount for you to say it isn't, that your opinion. But to me it's not enough quad core phones out there.

What's one thing in common with all of those phones? They weren't shipped to reviewers with pre production os and had a steady ground to work on(ics). To my knowledge, not one of those phone have gotten jelly bean official yet.

yes that is pretty much what i'm saying. Android hasn't fully mature yet. There are a few things I don't like about it that could be handled better. Like when you rotate your screen, not all screens/menus actually rotate.

I have no clue how android handles multi cores. I don't assume I know. That why i'm think it is happening. It's too early to tell if LG is at fault with the hardware or google un finished OS. No one knows at this point.

If one core is at 70% and the rest is at 20%. It will generate more heat if it's spread evenly like maybe 35% every core. A core at 70% will heat up the other cores by a few degree causing the whole CPU due to how much work it has to put out. If you don't believe me run IBT on your computer set it to one thread or 2 if you want. The other cores will heat up along with it. Maybe not as high it will still heat up. Then the overal temperature will rise cause of it. I'm not trying to say you are wrong. I'm just putting the other side when the cores aren't being pushed to the limits. Just steady usage under 40% on every core.

I'm not too up to date with my core management to core activity

To be honest I think it varies from program to program. Some may have it to use much cores as possible. Some may just lock onto 2 cores for optimum performance(for now) later it might take advantage of the extra core giving it more performance. It will run and run fast on 4 cores but till its fully optimized. It probably won't ever run fast it could.

I completely agree with your last point. Like I it's too early to tell if its a hardware or a software. Hopefully it's software
[Nexus 4 General] chidori602:
Mmm, why is the gs3 so low?
[Nexus 4 General] RoadHazard:
The S3 got Jelly Bean quite some time ago.
[Nexus 4 General] B97:
S3 and One X are both receiving or have received jelly bean depending on country... Official.
[Nexus 4 General] sarni84:
See the funny thing is a lot of phones thermal throttle after the CPU is taxed and gets hot. Like if I keep my my T-Mobile s3 (dual core s4) in front of the ac and benchmark I get crazy high scores almost 7000. But if I just bench normally not keeping it cool it will shutdown after three quadrants or U will get ****ty benchmark scores because of thermal throttling. It happens and I ain't worried about it. Thermal throttling is bound to happen after benchmarks and taxing your CPU. What else is gonna happen of course the **** will get hot. Like I said there is tricks to fight against thermal throttling;) I think after customs ROMs and kernels we will be able to set the thermal throttle limit (I really don't mess with that option) either way that or Google will make the CPU thermal throttle at a different limit. U guys are freaking out for nothing tho if U look at optimus g benchmarks on YouTube U see this guy only get a little over 4000 guaranteed thermal throttling. He was probably benching beforehand check it out his name is tech revieweror sosomething like that

---------- Post added at 11:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 AM ----------

My T-Mobile s3 does the same thing but in real world usage it runs fine and everything works great because even though thermal throttling has kicked in and my phone has gone down in clock speed it is still just as fast. See this is what happens when U have a beast processor. I can clock it to 1.0 GHz and it is still faster then most phones! Stop freaking out people!.....also the phone will not damage itself the board is designed to just shutoff . thermal throttling will first kick in then if it continues to get to hot the phone will eventually shutoff the board always has defenses against heat. The silicone will always stay in tact with the tech we have today:)
[Nexus 4 General] XxStatiX:
Yeah this is bound to happen.And this device is going to be a beast!

3 more days! :D
[Nexus 4 General] chrisjcks:
Yep, my tegra3 hox does the same - runs cool in general use, but benchmarks can cause it to overheat (flashing red and green led)

Depends which benchmarks and how long they are tested.

But I've no doubt, a simple OTA will fix any heat issues on the N4.
[Nexus 4 General] italia0101:
Yea , the only thing i worry about is the gaming, if we play NFS for 20 mins .. are we going to see a performance drop? i have no doubt itll be fine for every day use, just the gaming...
[Nexus 4 General] cbutters:
just want to reiterate in simpler terms because i think it is important...

if the "heat" and throttling issue is due to unnecessary voltage, a simple software voltage adjustment would fix the issue and WOULD NOT limit performance.

In fact it would improve performance because the processor would no longer be throttling itself..

*Also, I have no idea if voltages are even an issue here... can anyone compare voltages between nexus 4 and optimus G?
[Nexus 4 General] PlanBSTi:
Yeah but aren't those the dual cores. Not the quads. I know they will be receiving them. I just don't know when lol.
[Nexus 4 General] Mohit12:
Just a quick poll. How many of you will move on to the SGS4 when it's out?
[Nexus 4 General] Monkeybrew:
Wonderful. Please post more pics and benchmarks. And I'd love to see a battery test compared to your Optimus G

thanks
[Nexus 4 General] supercakefish:
Not enough moneys for that!
[Nexus 4 General] funky_snowman:
Formerly had incredible 2 (was on my 4th refurb for the same issue), droid x, and og droid. Currently use unlocked iPhone 4 on tmo.

My iPhone is older than my old incredible 2, but its a considerably better product. With the exception of a few moto phones, there are not many android phones out at the moment that can honestly match the build quality that apple puts out. I like android, but not enough to buy a disposable piece of crap Samsung, or rely on a hacked up kernel to use it in stock form. If something breaks on my iPhone, I can readily find parts to fix it, which isn't the case with most android phones.

Additionally, aftermarket connectivity for the iPhone is head and shoulders above what you can get with android. I don't want to fiddle with a phone in the car to browse my music, which is what I'd have to do if I wanted to use an android device as my primary source of music. I also don't want to shoehorn my music collection into 16gb or rely on google music streaming to have access to everything. Maybe if we had better carriers in the us and coverage and data limits weren't so awful, but that's not currently the case.

There aren't as many cutting edge features in iOS compared to android, but the user experience is VASTLY more consistent when doing the normal things you need to do with a smartphone (and then some). This is a MASSIVE detail.

Still, there are a lot of things I like about android, especially if I can get it unlocked for $300 in a device with decent build quality and unmolested software. Im not buying it to replace my iphone, ill be buying it to supplement it and so i have a decent backup in case i need to repair it. However, the fact that I'm given pause from buying another device by a 2 year old iPhone is pretty amazing.

My only point is that there is a very strong case to be made for the iPhone when compared to most android devices, and trash talking simply makes you look like a fanboy. I think the new nexus will be awesome once the software is finalized, and I can't wait to get my hands on it (I need some stock android back in my life). However, at this point, if I had to make a practical decision and choose only one device, it would absolutely be an iPhone.
[Nexus 4 General] raze599:
Nope, only getting Nexus devices from now onwards. Other devices are a pain in the backside to mess with. You have to find all kinds of random exploits to be able to unlock and root the device. Then theres issues with manufacturers not releasing drivers and things so custom ROM's are always underperforming compared to the performance they should be getting. At least at the start. Eventually it all becomes fine but that takes months of work.

I'm on my first Android device currently, a HTC Desire HD. NEVER AGAIN! :D
[Nexus 4 General] AdamUpNorth:
Amen. It took me two phones (Xperia X10 and Xperia Arc) to figure that out. Nexus all the way.
[Nexus 4 General] Nexx:
No chance. Been stung by HTC over kernel source on the Desire S and now Samsung with Enyxos sources. I'll be sticking to Nexus devices from now on. Full source, directly from Google, no manufacturer excuses.
[Nexus 4 General] yahyoh:
that's it if u want to run aosp never ever buy non nexus phone

i hate sense - touch wiz - time escape - all those are just bloatware to slow ur device even with quad core cpu + they are ram hogger

---------- Post added at 11:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 PM ----------

**** yeah all the dev's on xda will buy N4 it will be the most amazing device ever :victory::victory:
[Nexus 4 General] Tomatoes8:
Speaking of fan boys. I believe we have a winner.
[Nexus 4 General] Monkeybrew:
Oh, I hear you. I'm of the same opinion. Nothing but Nexus from here on.

I have an HTC incredible S that's been allright, but HTC's own ICS update made the phone laggy, and HTC has refused to implement GLONASS on it despite the device having hardware support for that. Bye HTC, never again.
[Nexus 4 General] dknotty:
Piss off and buy an iPhone then and stop whining like a baby.
[Nexus 4 General] DonDizzurp:
well, obviously... just look at the hardware on this beast

all these kids here cant stop crying about a device that isnt even released yet.. its ridiculous..
[Nexus 4 General] kydkupa:
About to post a small video will doing a webinar in a sec.