yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 4 General] FISKER_Q:
And by that logic, to some people, a phone like that could be worth 60000€, should the prices be that instead?

It would be expected that retail prices should follow, because not only is it what happened with the Nexus 7, but it is also according to Google's wishes about shaking up the market that has lived off ridiculous profit margins, it may be LG that has physically manufactured the device, but people see this as a Google device, therefor Google's pricing should carry weight, and if Google has allowed LG to set pricing contrary to that goal, then it is Google that have failed that goal.

Sure, and at some point there will be a Play Store rollout in those other countries, unless they're definitely knowing it's not within the next year or two, the same argument could've been valid for those without the Play Content.

Given the costs of phones in general i doubt they sell the phone at a loss or even at "break even", the R&D associated with the device is minimal as it basically using an already existing design and manufacturing proces.

Components and manufacturing will unlikely be any more expensive than the bulk rates we know from other similar highend phone, infact it is probably cheaper as LG/Google probably can get some special rates.

The same reason the retail stores are angry, they can't get it at that price either.

No that's not the same, one thing is the generally unreasonble pricing, which you could say is the case with Samsung (Or any other manufacturer currently), it's a whole different thing when you attempt to address those unreasonable prices by trying to offer it cheaper, but essentially end up short of that goal.

So to answer your question, no that isn't what we want to accomplish, and it certainly isn't the only "realistic" option, but it would've been "better" had they chosen to do that.
[Nexus 4 General] mELIANTE:
There's a saying for that in my country, it roughly translates to "some are sons, others are stepsons".

And 300€ profit margin? Capitalism FTW!!
[Nexus 4 General] Madarox:
The nexus 4 got some flaws to me like the lack of sd card slot,non-removable battery and the lost screen-estate because of the on-screen buttons.I'm also still not sure about the camera and the DAC used in it.The low price point would have made me sacrifice these stuff,combined with the great hardware/software and I was sold.Not to mention that it would s*ck to pay 600 euros for a phone that is usually referred to as a ''cheap/budget phone''.
[Nexus 4 General] gogol:
Is there any limit, how many phone can you buy from Google Play Store?

With this kind of situation, I am afraid people will buy as much as they can from Google Play Store and then sell it via eBay for profit (cheaper than LG price at retail street stores).

LG sucks ...

And Google also sucks for not allowing hardware purchase via Google Play Store in The Netherlands ... !
[Nexus 4 General] FISKER_Q:
There's been a limit for other releases, so probably will be for this one as well.

How many it'll be is unknown though.
[Nexus 4 General] tylerdurden83:
I payed 70 euro of custom on a 350 dollars package, hardly the best way for europeans
[Nexus 4 General] draugaz:
They don't get such a margin.

But this does not matter at all, since Nexus4 is not sold in the vacuum. LG has their own devices to sell, so their Nexus4 pricing is adjusted accordingly.
[Nexus 4 General] mELIANTE:
Yes, I know the one crushing their margin is Google. But still, it's a big difference. I'm not quite sure why it exists...

EDIT: Even if they have to place it in a higher price range, placing it so close to the G, having less capabilities, is just screaming "don't buy it".
[Nexus 4 General] floepie:
I'm not sure why Google gets any flack for this at all. I'm sure LG knew of this ahead of time and didn't think at all about the backlash. And, Google's services and sales channels role out eventually to a wider audience, but distribution channels expand more slowly than some would like. Google can swallow the hardware costs because they have made an investment in other areas, namely content from the producers of various forms of media.

That content can't be spread willy-nilly all over the world. Content deals, as evil as they may seem, don't scale up like raw data does over the internet. These deals are chalked up one by one. If anyone is to blame for this fiasco, you could look at LG, for knowing full well of enormous price discrepancies, but if you really want to point the finger, look toward the various content producers, who continue to adhere to ancient models of distribution. This isn't about hardware at all, but rather, content deals both with the producers themselves as well as country-specific regulations. I bet it's a true logistics nightmare that is bound to piss off many who aren't immediately invited to the party.
[Nexus 4 General] JohnSteveDoe:
May have jumped the gun with that e-mail then. Whoops.

In any case, let us knwo where when you open the new thread please :)
[Nexus 4 General] Bwlian:
Errr no, 1280x768px screen resolution ;)
[Nexus 4 General] casserly:
Sweden is actually at approx 500€; cheapest preorder atm is at 490€

Still better than 550€ but Im no gonna lie - was a tad upset when I saw the price...
[Nexus 4 General] FISKER_Q:
I've not seen it that cheap, where have you seen it?
[Nexus 4 General] Madarox:
In portrait mode,there's still some screen-estate lost.
[Nexus 4 General] poisike:
Lets do some reverse mathematics

OK, lets say that Nexus 4 16GB will cost 549 Euros at retail store.

Most European countries have about 20% VAT, so 549 without VAT is 457,50 EUR.

Lets say that retailer has 30% markup, so they will buy it at 351,92 EUR

Distributors want some money too, lets say they want to earn 15%, so they must get the phone from LG at 306,02 EUR.

I don't see how it could be sold at a lower price in retail stores. Should Google pay the retailers for selling the phone or what?

Retail stores have high operating costs, so the markup is probably even higher then the number i used in the calculation.
[Nexus 4 General] karma123:
Delete
[Nexus 4 General] FISKER_Q:
Sure lets just make up some numbers right there on the spot :)

Disregarding the fact that VAT applies to Google as well as the retailers, and those completely made up numbers regarding markup prices from retailers, lets try applying this to the Nexus 7 as well.

Nexus 7 32 GB

Play Store: 249€

3 German Stores: 249€

Now i could make some very hard calculations here, but I'm pretty sure the only percentage difference in price you will find in those prices are 0%

Where did the 30% and 15% markups go?
[Nexus 4 General] Fsjadner:
Meh.

Guess I'll be taking a few long trips down to germany to my buddy.
[Nexus 4 General] tuffCookie:
LG tries pricing Nexus 4 up to €599

LG is facing an angry backlash from some prospective customers after it emerged that the manufacturer was trying to charge as much as €599 for the Nexus 4 handset.

http://www.zdnet.com/retailers-rebel-as-lg-tries-pricing-nexus-4-up-to-599-7000006903/

this may explain the pricing outside of the Play Store. insane...
[Nexus 4 General] poisike:
I actually own a retail business (my business doesn't sell phones), so i have some small idea about how these things work. But you are correct, i don't know exactly how small or large the margins are in mobile phone business, so yes i made these numbers up.

Of course Google Play Store price in Germany also includes 19% VAT. So Google gets 293,28 Euros for the 16GB version. So now you want to complain about the 12,74 EUR difference that my calculations have?

About Nexus 7. Yes, the price maybe the same in Germany (it is not in my country) and the price wasn't the same when Nexus 7 came out. But what does this have to do with Nexus 4? This only means that Google is probably also making some money selling Nexus 7's now. Thats a problem also?

I believe that all high end phones cost about 300 Euros when you buy them directly from manufacturer. Of course you will get a little bit better price when you help design the phone and buy in very large quantities like Google did. So i still don't see a problem. Only problem may be that Google wanted to sell it at a very attractive price, and looking at this thread here, Google maybe didn't think about that some people may not understand why the things are as they are.

My point is that if Google doesn't want to make any money on some product, then they can sell it at cost or even below cost. Google can afford this, retail stores can't. Complaining here is not going to change that fact.
[Nexus 4 General] saw man:
Will, I guess I'll have to stick with my old ugly d*mn slow SGS1, LG isn't the best trademark in Saudi Arabia, acutely the LG 4X HD drops a 120$ of its price in one month, so I hope the same here, some sources said that it will be selling in about 535$, which 200$ more than it should be, and I'm no rich fancy kid with a billioner dad, I drive a car made in 1986 that trays to kill me every day, and I'm still virgin too, so take it easy with me LG-Google :mad:
[Nexus 4 General] yahyoh:
i was thinking is the nexus will priced by LG ( i don't think so )

its made for google and google who will price it ( like Gnex i don't think it was priced by Sammy )

and google trying to make all people buy nexus devices with low price point ( nexus 7 - Gnex ) if the price will be higher than 400$ out side play store so no one will buy it + its made by LG meh

so if the price higher than 400$ so google totally failed to make the nexus with low price point

i'm still have hope the price will be low ( maybe the price thingy made for a reason ;) )

edit : like nexus 7 the price in play store and outside play store almost the same :)
[Nexus 4 General] FISKER_Q:
No, but they're obviously not in any more sense of the word "making some money selling Nexus 7's" than they are with the Nexus 4's, because they're selling them just as cheap as they are intending to do with both the Nexus 4 and the Nexus 10.

Google did not just "design the phone and buy in very large quantities", they MADE the phone, that it was LG ultimately responsible for physically manufacturing the phone is irrelevant.

The point is that retailers are irrelevant, Google set out to make a price that was very competitive, as they did with the Nexus 7, they are falling short of their own goal by allowing this to happen.

The specifics of whether or not LG is responsible for the pricing outside the Play Store is also irrelevant, at the end of the day Google made a deal, they could get it working with the Nexus 7, and if they want to back up the claim that they want to "shake up the market" by offering the Nexus 4 cheap, then their failure to negotiate a prices which result in a more globally balanced MSRP is ultimately their responsibility, which is what the actual point is.

Google have said they will try to get rid of "unreasonable profit margins", and have failed to deliver on that front.

Nothing will change that fact, regardless of who is currently directly responsible for prices throughout the "Non-Play Store"-markets.
[Nexus 4 General] mELIANTE:
Either way, it appears that going with LG for the Nexus was a bad move after all. Not for the reasons previously feared but because of their greed.
[Nexus 4 General] poisike:
And they did that in Google Play Store. I haven't seen Google announce any prices for other stores.

How are the retailers irrelevant? They want to make money on what they sell, it's the only way. I don't see how Google could force retailers (or LG) to sell the Nexus 4 at cost. Only way would be if Google paid part of the manufacturing costs to LG, so retailers could buy it cheaper and still sell it at reasonable margins. I don't see this happening.
[Nexus 4 General] _NL:
I don't understand how people claim they have actually ordered the phone. Google play store says it's not available until november 13th.
[Nexus 4 General] FISKER_Q:
Because you're assuming they would be forced to sell the Nexus 4 at cost, that is, of course, nonsense.

Google/LG will just, as Asus/Google did with the Nexus 7, have to offer it at the proper price.
[Nexus 4 General] poisike:
Yes, i'm assuming that the fair price for this phone is at least as much as other high end phones. Why do you assume anything else? Is there another phone with the same internals (or better) sold anywhere for a better price? Is the LG Optimus G (same internals) sold for less?
[Nexus 4 General] yahyoh:
HMM

http://www.androidauthority.com/nexus-business-model-128423/

:(
[Nexus 4 General] The Troll:
optimus 4x hd, jus for being made by lg is sold 70$ cheaper than one x.. even with same basic hardware..

lg has a bad rep.. and no resale value.. i sold mine for half its price to a guy dumb enough to take it..

they dun deserve to make the price as high as that.. no one would EVER buy that ****.. they'd jus got for s3 or anything except lg
[Nexus 4 General] poisike:
This is what i'm talking about.
[Nexus 4 General] yahyoh:
so i think i will stick with my s2 for now :rolleyes:

still great device and sammy will soon release JB and kernel source code :)

because i'm not sure if i will pay same amount of money as galaxy s3 for LG device meh

i wish that s3 had 2gb of ram :(
[Nexus 4 General] Remcotjuuh:
On one side I find it to be utterly ridiculous to sell the phone for approximately €250,- , or dollars, whatever you valuta is, more without any differences between the Play Store model, but on the other side shops and LG have so many more costs than Google has selling phones. It's a big fat shame that buying the phone from Play isn't available in the Netherlands (yet :fingers-crossed:). I guess I'll have to go with an S3 or another model that will be released later on to suit my needs :(.
[Nexus 4 General] FISKER_Q:
I'm not saying the current retail price is unfair, i'm just saying it is contrary to Google's goals and that is possible for Google to obtain that goal, of course we can only speculate what is and what isn't the reason for not meeting this expectation.
[Nexus 4 General] floepie:
Just out of curiosity, where is it stated that their goal is to bring the phone to market at such an incredibly low price, specifically at this price point? If a company can manage to do that, even in an extreme minority of markets, albeit very important ones, how can you look at this achievement as a failure? If the content deals haven't been inked in country X, how would you expect such a phone to be sold in country X at these below-market values, and how do you reconcile their stated goals with what you would have intuitively expected, given that Google can now be seen as a new sort of provider, a provider of content who can subsidize your device in place of the provider of airwaves and bandwidth?
[Nexus 4 General] FISKER_Q:
Because the device isn't subsidized, it is simply sold without the insane profit margins we see today.

Back when Android was young it wasn't unreasonable to see the highest end Android phones at 400€ but because of how the supply & demand evolved it was possible to increase prices despite manufacturing costs not really increasing to support that increase.

This move could've sparked other companies to rethink their profit margins, and that would've brought more competition and lower prices, which i doubt will happen now because of this goal not being followed globally as they did with the Nexus 7.

Edit: forgot the link: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/02/android-nexus-strategy/
[Nexus 4 General] rodem77:
IMHO:

This achievement is a failure because LG (google) will sold less devices in market where google play is not avaiable and this mean that google will sold less app and less Nexus phone... nexus phones in my opinion are the right way to present the real android experience to the people. I see al lot of good hardware devices without any update from various LG, samsung htc etc. This mean that if you have a bug (and you are not able to flash a new rom like 99% of people that have a smartphone) you will keep this bug forever and next time you will buy an iphone or a W8 phone.

This is a faiulure because we all see the presentation of a beautiful device with a very good price and this lead to an high hype on this... and later we discovered that this price is only for someone, and they lost all our hype... now I'm not waiting for LG N4... This is not good for Nexus reputation.

This is a failure also for LG reputation because we all know the price of this device from google play, how you can sold the same device at double price in other market? In this case LG make only hardware, software come all from google so LG have not to pay also for its software personalization (and this is good because we know how LG update its devices...) so I don't see any reason for this big price difference...
[Nexus 4 General] andrasandhi:
this is LG device.

some ppl already believe 'how' LG are.

are u sure this device will be sold successful?

is that bcoz 'LG' name, so google make 'this beast' cheapest only from g-play? (maybe bcoz google didn't want to take the risk to selling outside g-play?)

lets take assumption if HTC or Sony be the next Nexus, what u thinks?
[Nexus 4 General] wilfred888:
In regards to paying one of those parcel forwarders that give you a US address and can send you the device, I am planning on using Google Wallet and my credit card to successfully purchase from the US play store, using a proxy.
[Nexus 4 General] yangkwong:
Just got the reply email from Handtec, the N4-16GB cost 270.00 GBP, and delivery charge to Hong Kong is 27.00 GBP - Total: 297GBP:o

But they do not have an exact date for when the item will be in stock.......:crying:
[Nexus 4 General] android addicts:
People who can purchase directly from Google, can sell them at a low cost in eBay with big profit. Good business thanks to the stupid LG.
[Nexus 4 General] vittogn:
What about warranty in EU?
[Nexus 4 General] AndDiSa:
Some month ago Google reduced the price of the Galaxy Nexus in the US Google Play Store to 350$ and nobody did complain about that. There are different strategies to deal with the market and it looks to me as if Google wants to try it by the price. At least for the moment.
[Nexus 4 General] Christian Troy:
That's when GN started to sell, specially in Italy since every online store sold it for ~350€.

Now it can be bought at 270/300€ even from your farmer's market
[Nexus 4 General] jenskristian:
A status report from Norway. Two lesser known retailers has put the Nexus 4 (16GB) up on their site. Proshop has it at 3963 NOK ($691/541€) and Teknikmagasinet has it at 3999 NOK ($698/546€).

When I bought the Nexus 7 I did the following.

1. Registred a Norwegian credit card not used on Wallet before. I used the adress I got from JetCarrier (see below).

2. Logged into the Play Store using a VPN application.

3. Bought the device using the new credit card and had Google ship it to JetCarrier.

4. When the package arrived at JetCarrier they sent it to me. They charged 175 NOK ($30/€24) for their entire service. In addition I had to pay Norwegian import taxes which they took care of for me without any additional charges.

PS: JetCarrier sends packages from the US to Scandinavia, but there are plenty of similar services that sends packages to other countries.

Hope this helps those of you that does not have the Play Store available in your country.
[Nexus 4 General] vido.ardes:
This is probably the best route for most people, handtec are a reputable company, and if they ship internationally then they are what I would go for.

Looks like buyign through the play store will be limited in quantity, so I will probably be able to help a couple of people out, but not many.
[Nexus 4 General] yangkwong:
Can you help me the get one ?
[Nexus 4 General] iozzo:
I am not sure about all these tricks listed in this thread.

In the google play "Country Availability" FAQ they state

Given that you will ship to mailboxes of countries where google play can seel the nexus, you need a credit card from that country too. Right?
[Nexus 4 General] supercakefish:
Anyone ever considered that Google may actually be subsidising the cost of the Nexus 4 on the Play Store which is the cause of the large price difference? Not just LG trying to make quick money. Think about it, Google is selling almost break-even and relying on it's media services to recuperate the profit. They can afford to subsidise the handset. LG can't. They are already struggling. You cannot blame LG when they are selling at exact same price that Samsung Galaxy S3 and HTC One X sold at launch!
[Nexus 4 General] Christian Troy:
They're not, I've posted an interview where Google says that they already earn enough selling it at 350$

Have you ever thought that maybe the correct price is 350 $/€ and not the usual 600?
[Nexus 4 General] mELIANTE:
If Google knew they would be selling at break even they would have never agreed to LG selling them on their own. That would be dumb.

I still think Google didn't anticipate LG's greed.

EDIT: Although this could just be a move, Google did say they wanted to stir the smartphone market. This wouldn't be a "no evil" move though.
[Nexus 4 General] FISKER_Q:
Actually it may work, i did purchase from Google Music using that trick, but as jenskristian you need a new CC and use an US billing account.

Basically it worked for me for, i think, 3 purchases on the Music store, then it would keep getting auto-cancelled after, eventually they locked the account because they thought it was compromised.

After that each time i tried to cheat the system it just locked my account immediately down again, though the last time the system just stopped accepting payments at all, with no error at all, other than a generic payment failed message.

I did contact Google again to get my account fixed, but basically i was never able to complete more than 3 purchases and that was even by trying to add new payment methods afterwards.

But of course as jenskristian also says, you need to ship it to the US and have someone or something forward it to your address.
[Nexus 4 General] supercakefish:
Hmmm ok looks like I was wrong, according to this Google don't subsidise the Nexus 4:

http://thedroidguy.com/2012/11/how-and-why-google-sells-nexus-4-for-cheap/
[Nexus 4 General] pootney:
In Germany it costs 395€ in a big E-Market like Best Buy. It is available from 15.12.12!

http://data.mediamarkt.de/angebot/vorbestellung/nexus-lg-nexus-4?searchkategorie=1721

Best regards

pootney
[Nexus 4 General] Christian Troy:
Media markt, let's see its Italian brother media world how much will price it.

Non play store orders should be delayed according to an Italian mall tweet (euronics) so the 15 December may be the date
[Nexus 4 General] :
The thing that is bothering me the most right now is this question right here: Will I be able to get valid warranty in the Netherlands if I were to import the Nexus 4 from the US? What documents are required for warranty anyways, apart from the warranty card and phone? Would LG in Holland reject my phone even if I didn't buy it in Holland but it is sold in the country anyway?

What do you guys think?
[Nexus 4 General] puneet0501:
So I see you guys still have money to buy expensive and fancy gadgets at a premium.. I wonder why do you still whine then! :D
[Nexus 4 General] fireblade:
Correct me if im wrong but i think warranties are divided in groups such as Europe/asia/America. That's what I've been told when I bought my Canon digital camera in the US.
[Nexus 4 General] KelvinJet:
Are you SURE about this? So I might be able to buy the Nexus 4 with my credit card issued in Venezuela, putting in my forwarding service's address as the billing address? :confused:

Anyone else has done this?

It would be amazing if I can do that, definitely gonna try it on 13th :D

Something else: what VPN application/service did you used?
[Nexus 4 General] Madarox:
Because the galaxy nexus is already quite cheap(~450$) in normal retail stores even at the time google dropped its price in the play store but that's probably because it has been around for a long time.