yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 7 Android Development] DarkSankaku:
I use mine as my main email and calendar device through the day using both 3g and wifi. I also listen to podcasts, and watch video when on my train, and use it for messaging, and website/news readin and IRC. I game SOMETIMES, and I keep a small OC for that (1.4GHz and 520GPU). So for me battery is my #1 concern, and how much butter is has is an after thought. I prefer to be PRODUCTIVE for longer than just watch how smooth my menus open.

I feel like if you game you should probably be using Trinity with it's large OC's, not M-Kernel which seems to be more aimed at general performance. For me a25 is perfect for what I use, so it's annoying to me to see a26 and, possibly, a27 being geared for people *****ing that they want something to transition "smooth".
[Nexus 7 Android Development] berkos:
yeah but if someone wants more oomph there are kernels which are faster. For me personally what made me stick with a25 is the only kernel which out the box just changing max frequency you could made compromises with battery or performance, you want more fluid gameplay crank it up, you want battery on the go, go cruising speed, it's just balanced depending on your needs. Everyone uses tablet in their own way, i use it as mobile device and reference tool when im on the go, but i can see why people would like to max everything out because charging station is nearby and battery life is irrelevant.

Long story short its not a bad thing if m-kernel goes for performance at the cost of battery down the line, because i can just use a25 and be perfectly happy about it, i just hoped it would build up on this balance and not go one or other direction, but let that decision to the end user.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] adstraylight:
As stated by someone earlier, my screen on usage is approximately 10pc/hr, which roughly equates to what was quoted for the stock system when I bought the device. The fact that the performance is markedly better counts as a win in my book. It's not like I'm sitting here watching my battery drain at an alarming rate, and reaching for the charger every half hour..
[Nexus 7 Android Development] d.kozzer:
I agree with everything in this post - I was just responding to the idea that it's "impractical" or otherwise not worth trying to get it to be smooth like iOS, and also that the point of this performance-boost is simply to get home screen transitions and menu scrolling to be more smooth. When in fact it's more about the performance of the tablet in just about every aspect aside from games (I specifically mentioned maps and earth). I suppose if someone really only cared about performance, then another kernel might be best, but it seems to me that while a26 does sacrifice some battery life, it's not as significant as going to a performance kernel, and you still get the buttery smooth performance.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Stuphologist:
My vote for A27 is that it strikes a middle ground...for now. Metallice was maybe a little piqued at us ("Fine! You want butter? I'll give you butter! "). But whatever his motives, the changes he made show one thing: the way M-Kernel strikes the balance between endurance and performance is his - properly his - choice, not an accident or error. The subsequent discussion, though, drove home to me that, in addition to the several and significant changes he made to Motley's original kernel, an important and differentiating characteristic of his kernel is that it's exceptionally user-configurable. Most of the discussion in the kernel threads is similar to the discussion here, speed vs. battery. Instrumentation is a new dimension, and I urge him to expand that, if it's possible.

Dave
[Nexus 7 Android Development] snarlytaz:
I basically agree. I do tend to oc mpu/GPU for performance, still UV further and switch governors to what I am doing. I like smooth performance in everything including gaming with THD games. That said, I am not finding a severe battery drain in a26. I just did a Netflix test for 20% of my battery and still tracking approx 6 hours full life screen at 20%. I noted that it locked using 666lp during constant play. I try to test relative to real world in my usage and will see how this one goes in just overall daily use besides sleep time.

After a day or two - go back to a25 and see if there is any real difference. I kind of think there won't be that much except appreciating what a26 does for 'butter'.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Metallice:
During hardware accelerated video the max get locked to 700MHz. Stock feature. But since the LP goes up 666 instead of 475 on mkernel, video on this kernel will never use anything other than the LP.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Metallice:
Oh and a27 is up... And a28 has been built. A27 splits the difference between the previous two, and a28 splits the new difference. Since i cant test we'll see how a27 does for a bit, and then I'll upload a28. I think a28 might be the one. We will see.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] snarlytaz:
Good to know (I still have lots to learn on what uses what.). Thx. Another example though where 26 probably won't differ much than 25 in my personal usage traits.

Gonna try 27 though... :)
[Nexus 7 Android Development] dstryrwiz:
a28 will split the difference between a27 and a25 or a26?

---------- Post added at 03:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:50 PM ----------

Also, with all the drastic changes in these builds, what settings would you recommend for the best balance? I know you have recommendations in the OP, but with these recent changes, will those still be fully relevant? I understand that you haven't been able to test these builds, but theoretically what would you assume would work best?
[Nexus 7 Android Development] kevin130:
What do you mean by split the difference
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Metallice:
a27/a26.

recommendations are still relevant.

and the changes aren't major. Otherwise i wouldn't make them without a n7 to test.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] SquireSCA:
I just prefer the fastest and most fluid experience. No lag, faster transitions, faster installation or loading of apps, higher frame rates. If my battery life goes from 9 hours to 8.25 hours, I don't really care. That's what the charging cable is for.

If people want max battery life, there are kernels for that. You typically get better performance, or better battery life. If you want balance, use the stock kernel. :)

So, which of your kernels is the all out fastest?
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Metallice:
a26
[Nexus 7 Android Development] dstryrwiz:
Okay, thank you.

---------- Post added at 04:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:09 PM ----------

Ironically the stock kernel has proven not to be the best balance in Kernel testing.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] icytrey:
+1
[Nexus 7 Android Development] snarlytaz:
a27 quik graphics test

Quick test of a27 with Antutu.

2D - not sure I noticed lag, lpcore in use

3D - frame rates dropped similar to a25, fluctuation in lpcore / gcore usage.

a26

2D - (maybe mute point?). Not sure I noticed lag, lpcore generally in use.

3D - huge increase in frame rates, generally constant in gcore.

Hope this helps some.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Metallice:
Benchmarks are pointless. Especially when you run them on something other than performance. Honestly this tells me absolutely nothing except that antutu sucks and barely stresses the CPU.

Also... mute point. *cringe*

Real use is all I care about.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] snarlytaz:
Ok. I was just using it as a quikie to watch the lp/g core activities while benchmarks ran, and just watched the frame rate (rates) themselves. It tries to tell something but i agree the end benchmarks dont really mean anything. I will leave a27 on a bit and try a few things.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Metallice:
Its just that benchmarks only tell you about what happens in the benchmark. Its just like SATs, ACTs, and *shudder* MCATs.

Also... moot point fyi.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Artood2s:
A25 is almost perfection in my book. I know interactive is not the recommended governor, but I use it to great effect. The input boost parameter really helps smooth out the ui. I set it to the max lap core speed and I get very smooth performance. Get close to 7 hours of screen time.

Sent from my One X
[Nexus 7 Android Development] knitler:
Yeah with Wifi and 3g on I went from about 9PM last night @ 100% till now with 70%. During that time i sued Wifi, 3g, received SMS from google voice, my gmail, did 40minutes of reading, and about 40minutes of video. Using a25 with interactive, a 1.4 clock and 520 GPU, and .05 removed from all voltages. That tells me I can get about 3 days out of my battery, with normal usage, and I'd like to keep it that way or better.

I'm also running the stock/rooted 4.2.1 so there is even room for gains from a better ROM and I'm already getting great life.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] bcvictory:
Sorry Metallice, I have been busy the last few days and couldn't do the all of the tests. I can remember doing 1 or 2 but not 3.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Metallice:
Take your time. If you can't do it you can't do it.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] -=s-b-h=-:
Having issues with trickster and a27 can't seem to get min CPU clock speed to stick it keeps reverting to 304 when I set it to 102
[Nexus 7 Android Development] xfrancis14:
Loving a27 so far thanks metallice :D
[Nexus 7 Android Development] ezas:
It's sticking. This has been covered many times in this thread.

Use your device for awhile and then look in trickster under infos and you should see that the 102 slot is being used.

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Swyped from my N7

Current: PA 2.99 b9 & M-Kernel+ a26

---------- Post added at 07:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 PM ----------

I just double checked on a27 and using Cool Tools to watch in real time, the 102 slot is being used.

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Swyped from my N7

Current: PA 2.99 b9 & M-Kernel+ a26
[Nexus 7 Android Development] ezas:
I'm on a27 and have had the return of a problem I have not seen in awhile. Consider this a very preliminary report since I want to test it more to isolate what is causing it, and need to research since I know this has been discussed before.

While listening to music with Google play if I use the rocker switch to increase the volume apps start shutting down on every press working back through the recent apps. It seems to only happen when you use the rocker switch.

It does not happen if I flash leankernel 1.0

Update: it DOES also happen on lk 1.0 it's not unique to this kernel (which I'm glad to say)

<

Swyped from my N7

Current: PA 2.99 b9 & M-Kernel+ a26
[Nexus 7 Android Development] thisguy23:
On 27. PA2.99.5 smooth. No lag. Idk about battery yet. I don't game much so I agree with Metallice statement about not wasting battery with 25. Thanks for the update. I hope 28 will be closer to 25. I realized after installing nova all my lag went away. The ks again for such a great kernel!
[Nexus 7 Android Development] bcvictory:
Here is my battery test results:

a25, ondemand default @ 1.3GHz: 6 hours 38 minutes

a26, ondemand default @ 1.3GHz: 5 hours 15 minutes

a26, ondemand (a25) @ 1.3GHz: 6 hours 3 minutes

a27, ondemand default @1.3GHz 5 hours 20 minutes*

a27, onddemand (a25) @ 1.3GHz 6 hours 20 minutes*

*The last 2 tests were done to 50% and doubled to give a quicker result. This is pretty accurate.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] ace-user:
huge bug on a27...i ws watching youtube and i press the volume rocker to increase volume..but when i press the volume rocker button, youtube force closes, and it jumps back to the homescreen...and i press the volume rocker one more time, and now launcher force closes...hope to see this get fixed..

Sent from both my sexy galaxy nexus and nexus 7 X)
[Nexus 7 Android Development] opz187:
Not the kernel buddy. What ROM are you on.. Let me guess, pa?
[Nexus 7 Android Development] yi3o8:
The volume rocker might have something to do with pa. On a26 you get an error dump but nothing force closes. The sound for volume down on the rocker seems screwed up for what its worth ie the sound it makes for the volume slider

Happens when rapidly turning the volume up and down. Does anyone know where this sound may be on the system?
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Metallice:
So... Do we need more performance or is a27 a good balance?
[Nexus 7 Android Development] ace-user:
ya i'm using PA beta 9.5...seems like it's rom related...sorry for the confusion...

Sent from both my sexy galaxy nexus and nexus 7 X)
[Nexus 7 Android Development] ezas:
Re: volume rocker problem

I went into recovery and reflashed everything (PA, Gapps, a27) and the problem seems to be fixed for me.

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Swyped from my N7

Current: PA 2.99 b9 & M-Kernel+ a26
[Nexus 7 Android Development] jaysmi32:
More performance plz!!!!!
[Nexus 7 Android Development] CreepyE:
^^^ This!

Nexus 7 16 gb

Latest Xylon Nightly

M-Kernel A-26

JusTunBean Inverted Gapps 6.1.3

Razer (X)'s Inverted Infinitum Theme
[Nexus 7 Android Development] ximmox:
I like A27, noticed no negative impact in comparison to A26.

I'd say you best wait until you can try for yourself and then decide which direction you will take the/your kernel. ;)
[Nexus 7 Android Development] xfrancis14:
A27 is perfect, and guess what.. Right when I fall in love with a27 my tablet gets blown speakers.. Now I gotta return it tomorrow :(
[Nexus 7 Android Development] ace-user:
good balance means performance + battery life? then yes, good balance :D

Sent from both my sexy galaxy nexus and nexus 7 X)
[Nexus 7 Android Development] bcvictory:
I personally think battery is more important than buttery smoothness. More battery you can get the more you can use the N7! Although you could make a battery saver version and a more performance smasher version. Kind of like clemsyn did before he went away. Can you have a look at his battery saving kernel? It was really good and siped battery. Maybe copy the voltages? I can't remember what the differences were.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Keitaro:
Thanks for taking the time to test bcvictory. Will you eventually complete the test for a27 to 100%?

Either way the results are interesting. Before you posted them, I was expecting a27 at defaults to come out a bit closer to a25 rather than the 5mins of a26 at defaults. However, once a26 and a27 were set to the same governor settings as a25 then a27 is right in the middle around 20mins away from the other two in either direction.

Once a28 is released then it should, as Metallice suggests, be right between a26 and a27 and then your result table should look like this...

+++ more battery life +++

• a25

• a27

• a28

• a26

--- less battery life ---
[Nexus 7 Android Development] bcvictory:
I finished the a25 version of the a27 test and it was pretty spot on. You're probably right. I think that Metallice should have a look at Clemsyn's old Battery saving kernel. See what he can pick from that.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Metallice:
It was just low core voltage and low GPU freq.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] NicoGa:
After a battery cycle with a26 using ondemand setting from a25, I managed to reach more than 6 h of onscreen and all the smoothness was still here. I feel it was a very very good balance.

Now using a27 I can feel that it is less buttery. We will see for Tue battery.

Envoyé depuis mon Nexus 7
[Nexus 7 Android Development] knitler:
So what these test tell me is that I should stick with a25.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] ace-user:
a27...around 10h of usage, 4 hours on screen time with 43% battery left..a25 is still the best in terms of battery, and a26 is the smoothest...

Sent from both my sexy galaxy nexus and nexus 7 X)
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Metallice:
Or, you know, you could try it for yourself and make your own opinions :)

For example, a26 battery life is much better than suggested by tests.

Tests only tell you what happens in each of those very specific test environments.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] snarlytaz:
Since I have been 'mute' in the office the last few days by working from home, I am making it a 'moot' point of not being on site today, so N7 going with me without charging during the day on a27. And, maybe i will find some time to turn off spell checking on the keyboard.

So far I do see better butter versus a25. Maybe I am on the 'balance' page as others.

I do like 'zen pinball' and have noticed a27 is a little nicer with it over a25. Not much different than a26 performance wise. a25 I would see more core CPU speed changes and core count changes during 3D table scrolling views. It is very noticeable when a core activates or deactivates as a stutter occurs in the scrolling movement at that time. 27 is nicer than 25, 26 is better but I don't think by much. I generally use ondemand here.

Performance governor helps but still that doesnt solve core count usage. For the absolute butter but probably absolute battery killer it would be nice to be able to control core activation in such as performance governor. (Maybe I should go search and read more on making governor adjustments and if its possible to force the number of cores in constant use? Still a noob in these things so still learning about how kernel development affects these things.)
[Nexus 7 Android Development] ezas:
Did you try turning off gpu scaling?

I loaded Zen Pinball and it ran very smooth with a27 ondemand using 520 and 1500. With dimmer, fsync, and GPU scaling off. In enhanced mode I could detect just a hair less responsive on the flippers.

<

Swyped from my N7

Current: PA 2.99 b9 & M-Kernel+ a26
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Metallice:
That's a terrible idea in my opinion. Why would you want your GPU constantly running at maximum frequency? It will do little more than kill your battery.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] adstraylight:
For me, A26 hits the spot in terms of UX, I did try A27 and immediately found it more sluggish. I ran it for about an hour and frankly the power consumption relative to 26 was so similar as to make no odds. Needless to say, I'm back on 26...thanks Metallice, I think I've found my brand! :)
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Tone_Capone:
a25 settings?

Sorry if this is a noob question, but can someone explain how to set a newer kernel to the a25 governer settings? I'd like to get better battery life if I can!

Thanks for the help in advance!
[Nexus 7 Android Development] NicoGa:
You can do it using the app trickstermod from the play store (there is a link in the op). Then, at the bottom of 'generals' tab (in trickstermod) there is a button to define the CPU governor settings.

Hope it helps ... There are some print screen of trickstermod previously in this thread.

Do not forget to apply your changes before exiting trickstermod (top-right)

Envoyé depuis mon Nexus 7
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Tone_Capone:
Thanks! I already have trickster mod. What are the settings I should be looking for?
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Stuphologist:
This is very interesting, thank you!

Tweaking the governor parameters back to A25 had more of an effect than I thought it would, actually. I imagine that tweaking the other way in A27 would provide the performance boost that some folks here are craving. Could some of the people pressing for more performance please try applying the performance governors tweaks and let us know what happens?

I think that unless someone from either camp includes "I adjusted processor speeds and governor settings for [endurance ¦ performance] and..." in a complaint, it should be disregarded. Maybe Metallice could include the recommended settings for each in the first post...?

Dave

---------- Post added at 01:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:33 PM ----------

What these tests tell me is applying the A25 governor settings to A26 or A27 gives endurance similar to A25. Throttling the processor and GPU would add more time on top of that.

Dave
[Nexus 7 Android Development] NicoGa:
Men you could search by yourself in this thread then ... see this post:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=36172133

And hit thanks ...

Edit : OK good you searched, sorry to be rough .....

Envoyé depuis mon Nexus 7
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Tone_Capone:
I found the a25 governor settings a few pages back. Here they are for reference:
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Stuphologist:
At the bottom of the Generals tab is a button with the name of the active governor on it. Press it and it'll open a screen with the governor's settings. If you scan back about a dozen pages here, or search, you'll find a few posts that list the settings for performance and battery.

Edit: or you could look at the message right above this one! :)

Dave
[Nexus 7 Android Development] knitler:
I decided to try a27, but I am running with my settings. I wanted to try and split the diff of a25 and 27.

Down dif 3

Sampling down 1

Up thresh 92

1.4GHz CPU

520MHz GPU

Removing a small amount of voltage from everything as I had on a25

It does feel a bit smoother than a25, but nothing that makes me go OMG. I'll run it for a while and see how it does on my daily commutes. I previously got about 2.5 days before I felt the need to charge (~10%) on a25. Personally I'd like to see the diff of 25/27 split for a28, but I'm not the developer. Personally I would disable every "cool" transition if it meant a few more minutes of battery life. I didn't buy a N7 to look cool swiping things, I bought it to be productive on the move.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] _DrG_:
Strange as my default sampling rate on a26 is 30000, no wonder this things flying lol
[Nexus 7 Android Development] DemosZevasa:
a27 extremely balanced IMO, made come back to this kernel. Thanks Metallice!
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Keitaro:
I just looked at the first page of this thread... (amended, see post below)

This is how the 3 previous kernels stack up...

+++ more battery life +++

• a25

• a27

• a26

--- less battery life but more performance ---
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Metallice:
Nah a28 is completely different than what i suggested earlier.

Also just a reminder for all... a28 is completely untested. I'm still about 30 short so until then all kernels will be untested and flashed at your own risk.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Stuphologist:
You can disable them, in the developer options. Set window animation scale and transition animation scale to "Animation Off". I like the .5 setting better, though.

Dave
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Allosaur:
Any opinions on the article in today's droid-life re reducing lag? http://www.droid-life.com/2013/01/0...n-nexus-7-and-others-with-seeder-application/

I have installed the apk but am undecided if there is a significant effect so far.
[Nexus 7 Android Development] GoldElocks:
Been running a27 all day and found it almost as smooth as a26 but battery was noticeably better on a 27, so for me a27 is my new favorite... But wait, a28 is out! Can't resist, flashing in 3, 2, 1....
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Metallice:
Don't use the apk or any flashable zip. You can use sysctl and init.d to do it natively in android. Not sure of the specifics at the moment.

Still 90% placebo. The comments in that article make me laugh. Same sort of comments when linaro was the big thing.

Edit: here they are. Add them to an init.d script.

sysctl -e -w kernel.random.read_wakeup_threshold=1024;

sysctl -e -w kernel.random.write_wakeup_threshold=2048;
[Nexus 7 Android Development] ace-user:
wow...a28 is out? that was fast!! hvnt even finish testing a27..:D

Sent from both my sexy galaxy nexus and nexus 7 X)
[Nexus 7 Android Development] Stuphologist:
The explanation is as Hocus-Pocus as magic smoke (you know, let it out and electronics stop working). Entropy? 100% believability penalty for physics terminology abuse. There's a quirk in the random number generator and patching it causes the operating system to run five times faster? Not likely.

Dave
[Nexus 7 Android Development] opz187:
So I could just add a script with:

#!/system/bin/sh

sysctl -e -w kernel.random.read_wakeup_threshold=1024;

sysctl -e -w kernel.random.write_wakeup_threshold=2048;

And name it to whatever?