yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] Turbotab:
Well 2 pieces of info / rumour.

Apparently Windows Phone Italy spilled the beans in what is coming to 7.8, Nokia may add a little more to this list for Lumia owners, but nothing major.

http://wmpoweruser.com/windows-phone-7-8-features-revealed-coming-soon/

Bad news, 7.8 could be delayed until december.

http://www.wpcentral.com/windows-phone-78-probably-coming-late

Of all the features the one I's like most is the deep Skype integration, shame it won't come to 7.8. I've just seen the sim-free / off-contract price of the Lumia 820 in the UK, it is £379, trouble is the Nexus 4 starts at only £239 and has more powerful hardware, damn Nokia you are not making it easy!
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
Turbotab, this looks decent. I hope they do add the additional accent colors as well. Being a US customer on T-Mobile, I'm happy network wise that T-Mobile is making changes to support unlocked phones, but I wish M$ would allow more OEMs with pentaband phones in WP8 going forward. I still like my Focus S and will lament that they didn't do more with a device like this, but if I get decent support I may hold off from getting a Lumia 810.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ctiger:
Frankly, the OS of your phone slowly became a personal preference, instead of simply usefulness. If you are on apple's boat, you might not want to switch, same as Android. It has less to do with the real spec on the hardware. But I believe it has a lot to do with the price. At same price, you will go for the OS you had been using all the time, I think.

For me, Nokia has better build quality, but really, the price difference is too much.
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
That's my take on it too. I've used all 3 OS as my daily driver and based on my own needs I rank WP, Android and iOS in order of best fit for me. I am just broke and having had this Hurricane pass through my area: NYC/north NJ, I'm not stressing about phone choice here.

I think MSFT has done the right thing by rolling onto to WP8. I still say they should honor some of the people stuck on WP7 who cannot upgrade with porting some of the features to 7.8 that aren't hardware specific. Yes the kernels are different but if they port over some, it only adds to their image of supporting their OS. The biggest problem is that some devs will only port apps for WP8, and if those long sort after apps are WP8 only (Pandora for example) some may cry foul...
[Windows Phone 7 General] Turbotab:
Nokia used to have fantastic build quality and durability when they made they phones in their own factory in Finland, it was also the most non-abusive OEM in terms of pollution and treatment of employees. Now that factory is gone, and their phones are made in the Far East to more a less the same standards as all the big players, now the only difference is the perception of quality due to material choice, feel in hand and design language.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ctiger:
Actually, in those newly rising industry countries, the build quality could be controlled, it totally depends on the cost, if your all intention is to lower cost to the most possible way, you get pure junk, if you want the best product, you still will be able to do that, like iPhone, apple was willing to spend more just to get better quality.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vnvman:
Well, actually even Apple products have lost some quality along the way. Look at the new i5....
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
where was quality lost?
[Windows Phone 7 General] gilesjuk:
The HTC 8S is better priced, cheaper than the Nexus 4.

Personally I thought Google would be updating and supporting the Nexus phones directly, but it's down to ASUS. So all you're really getting is an ASUS phone with their usual level of support.
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
And here I thought LG was making the Nexus 4, not ASUS...

Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express
[Windows Phone 7 General] vnvman:
Well you know, the whole scuffgate thingy...
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
had to google it... that's horrific ! end of the world stuff !
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
Putting the iPhone Scuffgate aside, why did MSFT decide to go with the Adreno 225 GPU in the WP8 Gen 1 devices? To me it still feels like hardware wise we are still playing catch up comparatively to Android. It annoys me a little bit especially since we all know MSFT was working on WP8 to replace WP7 for at least halfway into the WP7 life cycle. If MSFT plans to go with this time of year annually to launch the new gen of hardware, I'd suggest they get a hold of the newer hardware asap to test the OEMs and give them time to pump out better hardware based phones. Yes, WP doesn't truly need to crazy horsepower, but if MSFT plans to change things up and provide better support for the OS, if would help to make things a little more future proof for us consumers...
[Windows Phone 7 General] vnvman:
Yeah I was disappointed too when I realized the first batch of devices had the relatively old S4. Hopefully the almighty Surface Phone will pack the S4 Pro. Otherwise I may just switch to the dark side, maybe the second wave of devices won't have the scuffing issues. Call me picky if you want but this stuff is expensive as fuark, I want it 100% perfect.
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
Vnvman, with all due respect to your was ting them to do things perfectly, the only thing MSFT has ever gotten right at the launch of any new product is the first service pack update (software wise). I've never bought any MSFT software at launch because of this, but I like WP8 so far and I may take a chance on a Lumia 810 this month.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vnvman:
Well yeah, I'm being optimistic to say the least...I may as well just grab an Htc 8s (it's pretty cheap) off contract in February just to give WP8 a try, without making long term commitments: apparently this wouldn't be the best bet right now. This way I'll be able to wait a little longer without suffering too much the lack of support with 7.8, and maybe something more interesting will surface (hah) in the meantime. Otherwise I may just check out the 5s when it comes out :rolleyes:
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
Here's the cleaner version of this thought I ended up making (http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=33874004#post33874004) feel free to reply in either thread. I wish some of those ideas could come to Wp7.8, but I have my doubts....
[Windows Phone 7 General] vnvman:
Well, if you ask ME this would be great, and I'd really love those implementations. However as to the full blown notification center I'm afraid we'll never get one, because I've got the feeling that for MSFT the start screen actually IS the notification center, they put it this way: if you care about the notifications of a certain app then you pin it to start, so you can actually see if there's something new; if you don't pin it that means it's not a big deal for you to lose the notification. I think it's all about the "put people first" kind of thing, Belfiore actually underscored it with WP8: you can have bigger or smaller tiles depending on how much you care about the particular thing it represents. Personally I'm starting to understand and appreciate this way of thinking (even if it has some flaw), because if you think about it it's pretty reasonable, whereas a fully blown notification center may weaken the point of live tiles. WP wants to go on a different route compared to Android, while iOS simply copied the Android notification system. Just my 2 cents.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
it would be reinventing the wheel to have a "hub" full of notifications, especially after livetiles have been a focalpoint\mission of windows 8. the android system works very nicely, and is being tweaked weekly by folks, then commited to new releases. microsoft has a real challenge to figure out how to implement a notification -anything- without detracting from live tiles, no doubt.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vnvman:
I agree, and that's why I think they just won't do that, ever. Maybe at some point they'll add a way to tap or doubletap on the notification icon on the lockscreen in order to unlock and jump directly into the app from there, but that's about it IMHO. The idea of a hub for notifications is 100% against the whole design and functionality of WP as it stands right now.
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
I agree with you both. I was always opposed to the full blown notification centre idea because if the lock screen is fully tapped into, you really don't need a full blown notification centre. Having said that, I think that some of the stuff I suggested are tweaks that could be used in conjunction with the live tiles look. There are 2 levels of frequently used apps on my device: stuff I pin to the start screen and don't care if people see the apps (because I demo my phone a lot) and there are other apps I use a ton but don't want them on my start screen.

People are always creatures of habit and won't judge until you show them a better way of doing things. I think if MSFT can pull off a notification centre without being intrusive, then go for it. Otherwise, tweak the damn lock screen and add some more useful settings in the phone to enhance the user experience...
[Windows Phone 7 General] sitizenx:
I agree. The Windows Phone 7.5 market was tiny. And anyway I got my Lumia 900 9 months ago for free. How can you complain about that? Are there tons of Windows Phone 8 apps people can't access? By the time that is a problem all of our contracts will almost be ending. The first Windows Phone 8 phones just dropped. There is no way I would pay full whack on a contract for 9 months and not upgrade... no way. Every month you sit there and don't upgrade is wasted money. Now if my contract was up two months ago? Yeah sure I would have waited. But 9 months of waiting instead of just biting the bullet and getting a Lumia 900?! That's insane.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ctiger:
That's one way of thinking, but for many people, running contract free means you can jump ship when you want to. I get this Sprint plan and claimed several times before that I'll never leave, but now I really want to, for two reasons, one, damn sprint is so slow, it's mostly useless, also, the coverage isn't good either; then, I have another phone sitting around that I can use to join the prepay plan, which is at a close rate and might have much better data speed. But I just got a credit to renew my contract. Oh well, my plan is still cheaper, that's the only positive point. Hope Sprint will improve their sh1tty network soon enough.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Don't know if you guys have been keeping up with the news lately, but the notification center did come up during a MS meeting. They stated that they simply didn't have enough time...

Which could mean they are working on one.
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
Good luck on Sprint improving their network. Between all those Apple converts Dan Heese needs to eat up the unlimited 3G data plans after he sold some souls to get the iPhone, you may be SOL speed wise. Maybe with the new Japanese investors they might be able to roll out their LTE faster but I won't hold my breath...
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
Um, that's why the comment about the notification centre above came up, you know with us guessing how they might implement one and what we want to see in one that isn't a Maemo/Android/iOS rip just satisfy the sheep who baa mindless lay about having a notification centre...;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ I can see why some people don't care for one now. Your post came up in my notification center. Please don't quote me and post Irrelevant stuff about sheep.

Fact is, a notification center is great, especially when you have the option of using it or not. Also the fact that it is a phone, and you know we have notifications, some more important than others. Easy access without have to go back to the home screen and without having to lock the phone is a major + ?
[Windows Phone 7 General] vnvman:
Well, but to some extent WP start screen is itself a notification center, you can choose to have a tile for each app you wanna be updated about, and you can choose not to use it just unpinning the specific app. However I totally missed the thing about MSFT planning to add a notification center, I really wonder how they'll be able to implement it without making it feel strange to the user, given how WP works right now, that will be interesting...
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Perfect example, I'm reading Mac forums, just got a notification you quoted me. I finished doing what I was doing, and simply pulled the Notification Center down, and selected the tapatalk notification.

On windows phone, if you missed the toast, you have to go to the home screen to see a notification if you have the item pinned. That's way way behind the times.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vnvman:
I can't deny, it definitely can be useful at times, however I still don't see it as a major flaw. Many people don't use many apps at the same time. All in all the start screen is just a tap away if you hit the start button, and there you can have an eye on all of your notifications, assuming that you have your relevant apps pinned there. However if they're able to implement some sort of notification hub without compromising a core concept of the OS (live tiles) I'll be definitely fine with it, and those who are coming from iOS or Android will be more likely to switch, so why not...
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
Well, if you're more hung up on the sheep comment and missed the point that we had started discussing a possible notification centre idea a few comments ago, then that's too bad. No one called you a sheep specifically - the crack was more aimed at many who baa for one in the current style for notifications.

The truth is there IS one in WP: that status bar when new stuff arrives at the top of either the home screen, lock screen or the apps page. As I said earlier, I'm not completely against a notification centre, just not one in the conventional form we have in the Maemo/Android/iOS. I don't want the clutter of everything that's ever happened at the top like Android where you can go and endless amount of icons.

Is the bar limited in its notification capabilities? Sure. I will agree with that. But based on the layout of the OS, there are ways to add notification functionality without necessarily using the conventional "pull down bar" design.

The suggestions I made above are outlines for either a limited notification centre or can be a full blown one in the form of a hub. My take is splitting the notifications up: leave the live tiles pinned to the start menu to show some of the notifications and use the incoming status bar as a way to access the other stuff. Also, adding better functionality to the lock screen is in line with MSFT's "glance and go" setup - a key design and selling point of WP.
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
The problem is how we honestly define notifications and the move to have an OS be more web based. With more apps using an internet connection, of course the user is going to want something that allows instant notification for any installed app that way. As much as I like android, the fact that it is tied constantly to the internet and the cellular radio is the biggest reason for battery life problems (battery tech hasn't caught up yet either). The want of instant access makes the trade off for battery life acceptable, but people want both and with battery tech lagging behind, that's crazy.

If people want a conventional notification system, I'm sure MSFT will oblige for the sake of improving market share...they are trying to make money after all. But I think based on how the OS is, there are ways you can build that functionality in more creatively and still give folks the access to instant information they want.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
See if you just rely on the Start screen then you're basically just using the home screen of Android with static widgets. You have that extra step of having to go back to the home screen. Having to stop what you are currently doing to check on a notification. Search for it amongst the other tiles.

I mean I'm just saying a notification center would be great, it's not stopping me from buying a WP8 device. its just a hassle having to go back to the home screen and then scroll up and down searching for that tile.

---------- Post added at 09:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 PM ----------

I think you literally missed the part where I said, "I don't know if you guys have been keeping up with the news lately. MS said they didn't have enough time".

Then Vnvman stated "I totally missed that MS are planning"

That toast bar is nowhere near being a notification center. Expanding it still wouldnt make a center Who mentioned the "pull down bar"?

The whole point of a notification center is to have all your stuff in one place. A sea of icons won't happen unless it's a sea of notifications from a sea of apps.
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
I think you're missing my point as well.

Yes, I did see your original post. And Vnvman talking about how he missed the notice about MSFT talking about adding one. My suggestions for how they could go about adding one were written having seen that piece of news (sorry if I didn't post that in my first comment about the notification suggestions).

Currently, the notification centers on Android and iOS have the following parts to it:

- a centralized way to see incoming updates on personal content (emails, texts, calls), app specific functions (new tweet, status updates) and application updates.

- a centralized way to respond to all incoming updates (i.e. tapping on a specific notification to open the app itself or using a pull down bar method to look at and then choose the notification to respond to, along with how to dismiss notifications).

It is not just merely having all your stuff in a central place. It is having it I'm a spot in the OS that allows people to access it in a convenient way...in the case of Android, the status bar.

People use their phones differently. When some of us have a ton of apps and personal content installed on an Android phone especially, the status bar can get very cluttered. The suggestions I made (see further up in the thread) are based in the belief that design wise you can still have a either a split by adding more functionality to the toast bar and lock screen, or if you fancy the android route, building a hub that holds all the notifications.

Overall, I'm saying that now that we know MSFT will add a notification centre in some form, let's speculate on how they might do it, and not the need or reason behind adding one in the first place. I've suggested some things that they could do while maintaining the design frameworks and ideas they started in WP from the beginning. I would love to hear how you think they could implement a notification centre in WP.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
A edge swipe from the left side of the screen in any app would be cool. Two swipes, one with a pull tab to cut down on the mistakes.

Pull up all notifications, and statuses in one centralized view. A good way to control all of these notifications like on IOS.

Personally I wouldn't care what it looks like, all I care about is the content.
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
I like the left swipe idea. I'm not so sure while within any app though because that means you would have to tombstone/ pause the app itself and make the notifications a priority over the...the only way I'd support that is if you have a special vibration (if the silent is toggled) or vibration + sound if the silent is off. Remember the toast bar isn't intrusive by design. Even on Android when some apps are running and a notification comes in, you don't see it unless you exit the app anyways...the only app that has that level of priority is an incoming phone call.

They HAVE to make the notification centre LOOK cool...remember WP is all about eye candy...;)...I'm sure they can get the content part right with no problems...a "key" feature such as notification centre done incorrectly is a turn off.

For example look at how most people did copy and paste. Apple still has the best one by far, both visually and ease of use.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
this late in the game, I'm just wondering how ms engineers could find a new idea that doesn't build on the android way of doing it. apple saw and implemented, shrugged, and moved on. its a very simple thing to see something that's works well and just use it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
Indeed. I think sadly that's what they may end up doing. Not that I'm touting my ideas as the greatest solution, but if they really tweaked the OS, you wouldn't need a full notification centre. It is just that Joe avg (who MSFT is really pitching WP) is going to want certain things simply their friends have, which if its an Android of iOS a notification centre is one of them...
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
That's why I like IOS banners that flip down and don't get in the way. You also have the option of choosing your notification style, banner, popup or none.
[Windows Phone 7 General] dazza9075:
average joe couldn't care less about that, they just want it to work, MS isn't daft, at least when it comes down to design, they know what the general market wants, people who want to fiddle whether that be within the OS constraints or by going further are so in the minority MS couldn't give two hoots if the can do it or not, everything is designed for the lowest common denominator and that isn't you an I. Of course I take myself out of that because after decades of fiddling with my phone I too have realised that I don't give two hoots if I cant mod the hell out of it, I want it to work and work well, and for what WP7 is it does that exceptionally well.

PR on the other had is something that MS usually always gets wrong but that's another story
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
I agree with you 100%. I got to that point as well, and that's why WP is my primary platform. As much as I enjoy using Android, there's just something about WP that works.

Still, marketing wise you're also right. MSFT is never good at that. Remember, part of word of mouth marketing is people seeing people use phones. That's why I brought up the notification centre piece. We will see what they have mind...
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
That's the one thing I liked about how iOS did their notifications. Still, MSFT can go the route of full notifications (hub) + lockscreen, enhanced toast bar + lockscreen, or current setup. Still, I think it is in their best interest to come of with something different to compliment the current OS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
really ?

word of mouth is what's making the sgs3 the best selling phone this year. everytime I've seen "joe" be one-upped by a better camera (app or hardware), browser, screen, or anything, "joe" upgrades. add just the tiniest hint of unhappiness from his current -whatever-, and the upgrade happens quicker.

the phones that are selling -do- just work. that's why they are selling !

do you want to stand by "microsoft knows what the market wants" given the sales of wp7, surface rt ?