yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] ctiger:
I agree with you that from business point, it's not worth too much for MS. But still, they put a lot effort to get this tiny share of smartphone market and with this act, they might just lose many of those that's quite unhappy about the fact they got dumped. I have a WP, an android tab and a iPhone, when apple released iOS6, I found iPhone 3gs still can take some advantage of the new OS, which is quite amazing given my tab won't be supported for any new updates and my WP will be in the dark. So seems to me, investing in iPhone is a better idea somehow, the quality is better than those OEMs too. (my monthly bill will be the same for iPhone or WP with LTE)

I don't mean to argue anything, it is just my feeling of the strategy every different companies chose, preference of those companies. I was firmly against iPhone because I have Sprint which had no iPhone to choose from and I won't pay for the overhead. Then Sprint brought in iPhone and I got one and am happy about the result, proved that it is not just a hype. Myself, I was using TP2 then switched to WP(got for free) and I'm happy mostly after a long time(got used to those craps eventually) and will keep using that WP(had to do a repair because of part of the screen stopped responding)
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
I'm not trying to flog a dead horse here but not everyone has cash to upgrade at the launch of new tech. As long as MSFT provides some support for WP7 and doesn't completely kill it, then I'd be more incline to stay with WP. Yes the average Joe won't hack their phone but at least with Android if you pay attention and read the forums rooting your phone is worth something a bit more.
[Windows Phone 7 General] aclegg2011:
I'm happy with my Gen 1 HTC hd7. Even after tmobile killed it, the custom roms kept coming. And eventually I plan on getting the htc 8x. My HTC has been solid for two years now. Wp8 will have everything my WP 7.8, but better hardware and specs. I'm not too involved in development, but theres lots of homebrew apps. If you want a solid, os go with wp8. If you want more customization, go android. You want last year go ios.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Drewskie:
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only things I want out of 7.8 are a file explorer and the ability to sync whatever files I want. I'm talking about doc files if you add to them or whatnot they automatically sync when you plug in your phone. I had that setup on my wm 6.5

The obvious start screen we all know we're getting.

A notification hub or bar or whatever

Customization options for ring tones (already have but you know what I mean) custom sms, email, alarm alerts

and for me I would love to be able to have a lock screen with a lot more versatility. For instance an app like amazing weather could push current weather conditions with animations to the lock screen.

Would that make most of us happy? So let's see if MS gives it to us but I won't hold my breath.
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
See, there is still too much that MSFT locked down in WP7. Some of the HTC devices, like the Mozart, had a LED that could be used for notifications. The Titan's notification LED is a bit more useful, but the one thing in used to love about my BB9780 (my G Nex does this too) is how you could assign different colors for different types of notifications. An orange LED for missed calls and notifications would have been enough.

What I would love to see is the ability to open an app from the lockscreen by tapping on the notification. We can already control the music player from lock screen, why not a medium to long press on an email icon at the bottom of the lock screen to slide up the lock sreen then open the email app? I think that would help for those missed notifications that you don't see when they come in at the top bar in real time. They could also give us the last five types of notifications and save the "us choosing what five we want to get notifications for" as I read they may do in WP8.
[Windows Phone 7 General] KimWinter:
I don't think Microsoft (and Nokia) will completely abandon WP7. Nokia did say that apps that don't require hardware support from the new WP8 devices (such as NFC and multi-core processors) will be available for WP7.x.

Although I'm hoping that newer games such as the new Angry Birds Star Wars (to be released on November 8) from Rovio would be available for WP7.8 users. (After reading the press release, they did say that the game will be available for Windows Phone - here's me hoping that by windows phone they meant both 7.x and 8 users).

Besides, why are we berating Microsoft and Nokia? This happens even to Android and iOS users. Motorola recently posted an announcement explaining why not every devices they have in the market will be upgradable to Android Ice Cream Sandwich, HTC also once announced that its Desire line of handsets would not be upgradable to Gingerbread (although backlash from angry users prompted HTC to create a version of Gingerbread with some memory intensive features removed). iOS is also not an exception. Sure, your 3GS can be upgraded to iOS 6 but try downloading a new app and, oh wait: only compatible with 4th generation iPhone and iPod Touch (pretty sure it will change to "compatible with 5th generation iPhone and iPod Touch only). So, yeah, you have iOS 6 on paper but you don't really have iOS 6 in all its glory.

Do we really need a new operating system when our current OS does everything we need flawlessly? I think I'd find it harder to stomach thinking that my Lumia 800 has WP8 but can't actually do what WP8 was set out to do. I'd stick with my Lumia for the moment and after two years, upgrade to a (hopefully its still there) new Nokia Lumia running the latest WP-OS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
I totally agree and feel what you've said. I won't say I'm berating MSFT per say, but here's my thing with the iOS example on the 3GS. Yes, you don't get iOS6 in full. The 3GS hadn't run the full version of iOS since iOS 4. But Apple saw the value in updating it with a lite versions of iOS 5 and iOS6 because since they sell only one line of phones, those users aren't throwaways and they will still consume Apple content that is compatible with their older device as long as the current software supports it. If MSFT makes the same mistake that Apple did with iOS4 on the iPhone 3G with what they put in the 7.8 update for existing users, it won't be a good look for them.

I initially brought the 3GS example up for this reason - there are still new apps I buy in the Marketplace that are useful to me even though I'm not guaranteed WP8 compatibility in their current form when I upgrade. I've got a friend who wants to develop for WP and I'm getting him a used Titan to start out on because he cannot afford to get WP8 hardware out the gate. There is still money for devs with WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] :
I thought all 7.x apps work on wp8, but wp8 apps won't work on WP 7.x.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Turbotab:
I feel kind of in two minds about it. On one hand in my country (UK) WP7 phones, especially the Lumia series have become so discounted that you can pick up a 800 for £130 and 710 for £99 including all sales taxes for unlocked phones & no contract, basically they have become budget fodder.

While I'm glad that more people will experience a really good OS in WP7.5, in UI design / consistency it is the best on the market, budget users often are not brand loyal and will just switch to next bargain when it comes along. Those on a tight budget who want to explore their phones will choose Android. Hackers and the like will default to Android and often a Nexus, Google with Jelly Bean have ramped up their game in terms of design and finally a very smooth UI. Fashion conscious types will choose either Apple / Samsung's or even HTC's latest offering, which leaves WP8 phones with a loyal and open-minded following, albeit a small one.

WP8 phones cannot compete at launch with iPhone 5 / Galaxy S3 / Note 2 etc regarding image and brand recognition, so they will need to be discounted to stand a chance, I know the Lumia 920 is quality, but its rivals have a big head start. Fuuny enough I believe that WP7 will boom in emerging markets like China & India, it is an attractive / efficient OS that doesn't need ultra-powerful hardware to run smoothly, perfect for sub £100 phones, a price point WP8 can't and doesn't want to match currently, I bet that the install base of WP7 will grow faster than WP8 at least for a year or so.

On the other hand, WP8 has to be careful that it doesn't repeat 7's mistake of slow hardware updates, a dual core S4 & Adreno 225 is competitive now, even though the best Androids will shortly offer a quad core S4 & much faster Adreno 320, but in a years time WP8 without updated hardware will fall far behind its rival once more.

Lastly WP8 could be tainted by the mess that is Windows 8, one of the most confusing

piece of software ever with its schizo metro / desktop chasm, if that fails to gain positive reviews, the poor image of one could unfairly impact on the other in the eyes of the general public. WP7 will be around a while yet, and of course if WP8 starts to sink, I'll pick up a nice discounted Lumia 920 to replace my 710:cool:
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
What you said about the hardware approach is one of the things that worries me the most about WP platform. They really have been doing a good enough job of optimizing the OS on existing hardware, but the problem is that Android is such a hardware driven OS that it is pushing the market. Even Apple finally had to acknowledge this with a bigger screen, dual core and more RAM. We all know iOS is nothing more than an app launcher at this point, but MSFT doesn't have the leverage to keep putting out last year's hardware all the time and expect more people to adopt it.

I agree that ideally they should use WP7 for emerging markets but there are species for phones out there that may have the same hardware that existing WP7 phones use that they will slap WP8 on. I think that's a big mistake if they do that. If anything, MSFT should use the Apple approach and make the minimum standards work like this. Don't make any entry level WP8 devices that run with WP7 hard ware. Use the new launches to push prices of existing hardware down so that the budget conscious get better bang for their buck if they choose slightly older hardware. I know it is easier to do this for Apple since they make one phone, but if the premium 4 decide to launch say 2 phones each with every hardware refresh, the tech will get pushed down cheaper into the emerging markets provided that MSFT supports each major software version as fully as possible.

Its my lack of belief in them doing this that makes me think that WP7 might become WM6.5 starting next month.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Turbotab:
To Microsoft's credit they had strict hardware requirements for WP7, one of reasons it was so slick, they could low-level code for just one type of CPU / GPU combo, the same reason PS3 games still look decent against massively more powerful PC rigs, which have to use a level of abstraction to run the game, e.g. Direct X / Open GL etc.

The same will apply for WP8, I'm not sure if all the specs have been made public yet, but the minimum SoC will be a S4 Snapdragon, this alone means that current WP7 cannot run the new OS, also the older hardware does not support all the features required in the WP8 kernel.

You're 100% right that WP8 must get yearly hardware updates, as I mentioned before the next Nexus phone will have the Adreno 320, which is much faster than the 225 in WP8 devices, next year the new Arm 15 chips come online, so by next summer the top end Android / Apple could have 2 to 4 times more GPU power, why is that important?, well killer games are the things that peeps love to show their pals, omg look how awesome Shadowland 2 is on my Android / Apple etc, if Nokia et al can't offer those games or they are significantly lower quality it will harder to persuade people to invest their cold-hard cash.
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
Well said.

This is where MSFT if they plan to walk the line as the middle option and to bury RIM for the #3 spot can do a couple of things:

1. Take the Android approach and refresh hardware yearly. As in push the envelope type thing.

2. If you're gonna refresh hardware yearly, give each generation 2 years worth of full OS support, with 2 major updates over that period. That way consumers tap into the full power of the hardware and increase its value in the used market and overall consumer satisfaction. Cut the carriers out and pump out updates. Bug fixes, major releases, it shouldn't matter. Get the latest OS out to consumers fast.

3. Do not make low end hardware to run the most current OS version. For example, don't put out a dual core phone with 512 RAM to run WP8. Everything should be at minimum RAM wise 768 and cores 1.2GHz. When you make cheap hardware like that with the latest OS, you're thumbing your nose at the buying public. HTC didn't make any money of that POS Desire phone they announced at the time ICS first came out that was a dual core with 512RAM.

4. Use a combination of getting the apps people want or building similar functionality into the OS. A great example is the search hub in WP7. The more stuff gets baked into the OS itself that has features from those popular apps if the devs aren't on board, the better for users.

I may upgrade to WP8, but I'm very curious to see what MSFT puts in 7.8 first.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
***cough cough, iPhone cough****

Devs, mods . Stability , everything.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vnvman:
Ha good one!

Now seriously, after using WP I'll never go back to Android, too cold and messy. Anyways if WP8 fails to satisfy me in some way my only alternative will be Apple. If only the could restyle that stupid UI and throw away all of the wannabe cutsie jiggling bs, probably I'd be rocking an i5 already: the size is perfect for me, beyond 4" I feel uncomfortable...but man that stuff really turns me off.
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
Um, when all you're doing is fiddling with apps, anything with an Apple involved is always seen as stable....

Steve Jobs did himself a favor and made the iPhone exclusive by choosing the carriers they did and made a stink that jailbreaking was against the law. Jail breaking for use on other carriers was what spurred most of the development, along with Apple's app store restrictions. Talk about free pub and getting devs to work on your device! T-Mobile USA has 3-5% of its total subscribers using an iPhone of some sort. Many people who jailbreak just do so to use it on the carrier of their choice solely and don't use most of the mods on Cydia.

I've owned all I phones but the 4S and 5. For my taste, after the app selection, iOS doesn't offer anything to fit my needs that I couldn't get done more effectively with both Android and especially WP.

But seriously, the hubs on WP7 are so killer and make sense. The email client, phonebook and the search function I really, really like. Comparatively speaking, the email and phone book clients on Android and iOS are quiet laughable. Each platform has its strengths, so people get choice. My ultimate point though is that there is enough business with the emerging smartphone users to support iOS, Android, WP and maybe even RIM. But in order for MSFT to be successful, they need to do all the little things right...continue to make the transition for some users from iOS or Android by having either cross platform apps or the functionality of those apps built into the OS, be more dev friendly, be more on top of the OS support wise, and put out good hardware, not the recycled **** that Android shows works. I'd like to see one day Android and WP launch on the same chassis by and OEM simultaneously so we can see how well each OS at launch will attract and satisfy consumers, and not wait 6 months for WP to get the same hardware specs Android is using but just in a different shell...
[Windows Phone 7 General] Turbotab:
Yep kernel development is awesome on iPhone, puts down crack pipe....
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Jail break OS 5.1.1 best mobile OS out. You can make it look like android or windows phone or whatever you want. The amount of mods and apps for this thing is amazing. I have the N9 multitasking, themed up winter board, bitesms, swipe away notifications like android, and a few more. What's amazing to me is, there was absolutely no flashing involved, just respring and done. I got a file manager, drag and drop like android once connected to a PC. I'm sold, Windows Phone looks silly to me now, but still interested because I'm a fan.

Hubs? What about them? Use intelliscreenx, lock info, or notification center enhancer and laugh at hubs.

MS seriously better be hiding a great new way to manage notifications.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Turbotab:
Because of the Nexus 7 and Jelly Bean, I'm still a big Android fan, especially for the hacking / modding. I picked a Lumia 710 on the cheap, after selling my Galaxy Note, which too big for everyday use, I'm a guy so I don't carry a purse to put my phone in!

I was not expecting to like WP7 that much, but it just clicked, the smoothness, Live Tiles, having everything available on 2 screens. In fact I decided that I wanted an uncomplicated phone, that worked well, with a cool UI.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vnvman:
Stop teasing man, that's not funny! My contract won't be over till February ;[

Well, Android still is a good platform, maybe the best one for most people, but after trying out the simplicity of WP I kinda came to understand the point of a sandboxed and locked down OS. No kernel development? Big effing deal, who needs that when the phone just works? Most People I know don't dig Android for "omg I haz freedom, I can haz kernaaalz lolz0r!" kind of reasons, they do either because they can't live without piracy or simply because they find an iPhone too expensive. Some guys I know are into it because of big screens, but that's about it. Personally I don't have any of the aforementioned concerns, so I don't really care. I do like having an Android tablet for random hacking/fun purposes, but my TF300 gave me so many issues since I had it, with it's defective lighting and pixels acting up: it really has been more like an headache rather than anything else.

Honestly, from my past experience I'd be a bit scared of pulling the trigger on any Android phone right now (or in a few months): the OS is still way too much fragmented and with all the OEMs it's such a mixed bag; now that I use my phone for work I'm tired of fiddling with it, I don't wanna find out after my purchase that I have to root, mod and hack in order to make it fit fit my needs or simply make it work right. Omg, am I simply getting old maybe? :rolleyes:
[Windows Phone 7 General] Turbotab:
Even though Apple has some dodgy business practices, and their phones are far from perfect, look at all the issues the iPhone 5 has, I still enjoy their hardware. I had an iphone 3gs and installed Cydia on it, to relieve some of the restriction placed on it by apple, like WIFI toggles etc, tbh I liked the device although the screen was too small for browsing / my bear hands, and piracy is just as rampant on jail-broken iPhones at the very least. Cost is not so much of an issue, as iPhones tend to hold their value well.

I won't buy an iPhone until they revamp the design of the OS, WP7, ICS / Jelly Bean even webOS have changed my expectations, iOS on the 3GS was OK, but nowadays it is lagging behind. I understand why you want a phone that is hassle free, not that I'm saying that Apple is :p, but I admit that they generally give good service and quality of apps was higher in the past, this is changing a lot due to pressure from Google. Android OEMs can't be utter crap, that is why I'll stick to Nexus & Lumia (WP8) devices in the future, unless Apple can wow me again:) One area Windows fall behind is customer service, I've had issues with Nokia service centres and the Far Eastern manufactures still don't really get that you have to look after the people who brought phones, rather than release a new device.
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
That is hilarious.
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
Turbo tab, I generally like stock Android with faster updates, so I go with the Nexus line.

As for iOS, my favorite device was the 3GS. While comparatively speaking the screen wasn't the best, I liked the full SIM card slot, the design was nice enough and they finally put a decent camera on it. I'm in full agreement, the UI is too dated if you want more than just mere app launching and content consumption.

The truth is that there is more than enough business on the emerging smartphone users for MSFT. If they can do a better job of OS and app support, especially on older hardware going forward, MSFT will do well. We WP7 users might be the sacrificial lambs in that regard, which is such a shame.

Yes WP7 apps are to work with WP8 also, but devs will start to code directly for WP8 and ignore WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Turbotab:
If the rumoured Microsoft Phone comes out in 2013, things could get interesting, normally Microsoft does good hardware, remember the Zune player, what would happen to Nokia in such an event?
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ As long as they don't do the weird Zune colors.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
I'm glad you pointed out ios users have a very good update path, but missed that android users can root and update. relying in carriers to push updates has proven foolish once again. this is a very good reason to hack a little on your (or my) own and do what needs being done.

but

your last question poses a very good one. why -do- people need updates? the phone makes calls, surfs the web, sends emails, etc so why update?
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
A thing I forgot to mention, it's actually better not to update your IOS devices for few months. I'll provide sources later.

As of right now, a ton of people are avoiding iOS 6 like the plague, and not just because of maps

http://thebigboss.org/ios-6-a-dud
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
Its a great question. We've got Apple to thank for this in some way, in my opinion. As consumers we were initially satisfied for what the devi e could do out of the box. We understood and accepted the fact that most of the innovations that came with a improved cell phone model was solely hardware focused: GPS, improved radios, improved camera optics, etc.

When Apple dropped the iPhone, the game got changed. Not only was it innovate in terms of how existing hardware was packaged, but the focus of software and the ability to update versions of the OS and not force the user to upgrade completely was really what started pushing consumers towards been software update driven.

OEMs always pushed out updates, but because the OSes are being asked to do more in the form of apps, and the cost of the devices increased as smart phones took off, it fed into the current "latest is greatest" syndrome. Consumers feel like a smartphone is more of an investment now more than ever, so there is an expectation for post buyers' support.

That's why the crux of the matter is finding a balance between OEMs putting out smarter updates and users to optimize devices but make sure once you leave the store the phone does all it needs to do. This is where MSFT can shine by baking in more features into the OS that gets people out of the "app dependency" model of the last few years. I'd rather have my OS updates refining features existing on the phone than giving OEMs more leeway to leave features out and tie them into the next round of hardware updates.
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
I like a lot of what I see in the WP announcement. The question becomes: how much of those things can get ported into 7.8? I think we will get the Wallet Hub, Accents and Start Screen, maybe Rooms as well. I'd love to see the live Wallpapers too.

Of what was announced for WP8, what features do people most want to see ported over to 7.8?