yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nook HD, HD+ General] docfreed:
Not at all complaining - if you mods didn't do your job XDA would be overrun with extraneous crap and not be the stellar development site that it is.

However, it would be nice if we could just understand the criteria set by the mods for forming a new forum - is it number of posts, manufacturer, OS, ... This might help folks to practice patience while waiting.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] Divine_Madcat:
Truthfully (and i can be corrected on this), i think really is a case by case basis; but for the most part, if a device doesn't look to have a community behind it, it probably won't get made. Let be fair, XDA probably only covers a small subset of all the android devices out there; if there was a forum for every one out there, the board would be impossible to read, and most would have no more than a few users.

This is part of why i want/need people to express interest. If the staff knows there will be a good community there, it can only help things out.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] Taosaur:
Don't let the loudmouths get you down--I think most people on the forum know that you've done as much or more than anyone to see the new Nooks get their own boards. You've been extremely reasonable and accommodating and I for one appreciate it. Thank you.

I think this would fall under the "don't ask for ETAs" category. Obviously there are a limited number of admins who can approve and/or set up a new forum and it's probably less a matter of qualifying than it is moving the HD/+ up the to-do list (correct me if I'm wrong).

I do wonder if the DMCA decision against rooting new tablets is part of the hesitation we're seeing.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] someone0:
While that seem very logical, I'm not sure that's neccessary true all the time. Both Kindle Fire and Nexus 10 have their forum made way before the device are available to purchase publically. I have also post the request b4 you made the action here. I'm not saying you are doing anything wrong. You just doing your thing. But I think xda have grown from small community to quite a large scale. Also along with the large numbers of android devices, making a new forum need to be justified? Personally I hate the politic and responsibility of the staffs and mods in just about any forum. There are other forum that I have been members for 10+ years with well over thousand posts as well. But I rather keep myself anonymous even if I don't make any destructive post.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] madsquabbles:
i just got to 2.0.4 today. the update block didn't work for me. however the update didn't break root either. im still running fine and haven't had to redo any tweaks... havent checked play yet.

edit: meant update block from the tips thread.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] Divine_Madcat:
You are right, there are plenty of counter examples. IN the two you quoted; i think all the hype surrounding them was the lynchpin. Did anyone really expect the two to not have such a community given all the news coming up to their release?

As it is, i am trying to do what I can.. i really want everyone to have a community like we were lucky enough to have with this forum...
[Nook HD, HD+ General] leapinlar:
What do you mean, the update didn't work for you?
[Nook HD, HD+ General] JcBrad:
Just let me know if I can help

Although I have known about this site for a little over a year, I am what you would call a "silent observer/learner" I have studied your feedback to one another and have learned more than I ever would have imagined. You were able to take me last year at this time through the process of rooting my Nook tablet when I did not even know what rooting was. Now you have shared on the subject of the Nook HD+, giving me the ability to root and install Google play store and give my kids something to play with that doesn't cost an arm and a leg (the apps that is). I give thanks to all of you for your diligent effort in getting this information to us novices and for making it easy enough to understand as to allow us to learn for ourselves. The reason I write this is two-fold..... One to say "thanks" and two to see if there is anything we can do to help establish a forum as the moderator has asked for. I certainly do not know my way around here as you guys do but would like to help where I can. Please advise and I will send requests etc, and oh yeah..... thanks again all of you!
[Nook HD, HD+ General] someone0:
Here.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] JcBrad:
Done!
[Nook HD, HD+ General] e.mote:
>but for the most part, if a device doesn't look to have a community behind it, it probably won't get made.

The problem I see is of XDA's own making, by aggregating every device forum request into one big gigantic thread. The noise level in the thread gets very high, and requesters end up doing +1's. It's hard to discern any level of enthusiasm or groundswell of support. I also don't see the OP of the thread being updated frequently, and interpret it as basically a bit bucket where requests go to die.

One way to tell is that hot devices automatically get forums w/o having to go through the request process. Nexus 10 and Nexus 7 get their forums on the day of announcement, as are the popular handsets. Tablets that aren't "hot" get shoved into the circular queue, ie the "request thread." The Nook HD's sadly fit into this role. On XDA, tablets are second citizens to smartphones, and tablets that aren't Nexus are 3rd- or 4th-class.

There is evidently enough interest here to warrant you shutting down most of the HD threads since "they're overrunning this forum." If the concern is there being not enough interest for its own dedicated forum, then why not add a couple of sub-forums (General & Dev) either here under NC or under Nook Tablet?

Anyway, I'm of the thought that a few well-chosen words are always better than a bunch of anon +1's, so I've posted a separate forum request for Nook HD/HD+ below. Hopefully it'll raise enough awareness for the powers-that-be to give the Nook HDs a cubicle, even if a small one, here on XDA. To all, please support it with your comments.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=34682329
[Nook HD, HD+ General] aeturnus77:
I just tried posting on request forum and the forum above and was disallowed. :( at any rate, I want my voice heard as a nook HD user who has been living and dying by the information here the past 1.5 years when I first got my NC and now this little machine.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] les02jen17:
I think that's partly my fault, 'cause I was not able to update the first post into something more relevant. I never expected this thread to boom into such a bucket of request, it was originally just to get a feel on how many are interested with the devices. Please forgive me. If you've got any ideas at all that would make the first post any better, I'm open to suggestions, just PM me. If you want me to put links to tools, flashables, guides or whatever, just let me know. I'm no dev myself, and might not be much help, but whatever I can contribute, I'd be happy to. The mods I think already changed the title of this thread, and that's good as it points the other users to post in here instead of somewhere else.

Again, I'm open to suggestions. Just let me know. ;)
[Nook HD, HD+ General] Divine_Madcat:
Correct, i did update the thread title, though i am happy to rename it again should users want something more specific.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] e.mote:
>I think that's partly my fault, 'cause I was not able to update the first post into something more relevant.

Sorry, I meant the OP of the gigantic "request" thread, which now has 5000+ replies. At least, that was from my recollection. Now I see that that thread is a newer one, and there is no OP updating.

Still, wading through the morass of hundreds of +1's to tabulate them can't be a fun experience for any mod. I still see it as a place where requests go to die. Of all the new forums created recently, none came about because of the request thread.

I don't think new device coverage should be a popularity contest, and I don't think the XDA guys do, either. It only takes one dedicated person to make it work. NC is lucky to have many dedicated people here, after all this time. Hopefully, some of those will adopt the HD+, rather than just jumping onto the N10 bandwagon.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] madsquabbles:
i meant the update block didn't work. i checked and unchecked it a few times and the update still went through yesterday while i was at work. keeping wifi off for now since who knows what the next one may break. luckily i everything still works as it did prior to the update. no rerooting or anything - which is very weird since i've not had a single update on any other device that didn't break root. it must be the way we're rooting that keeps it.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] sorrowuk:
Why not just allow us to post new threads in this nook color forum since that is now an old device and a new forum has not been created which takes 10 seconds.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] kunchers:
The mod has been nice enough to leave one thread open here for us; let's not push it. If he had admin privileges, I'm sure he'd have already opened a new forum.

Let's get back to Nook HD talk!
[Nook HD, HD+ General] Divine_Madcat:
It does not matter how old a device is; if the discussion isn't about the device, it doesn't belong there, period. I am trying to be nice, and flex the rules a bit, and at least leave people something in the meantime.

Thank you. Like you said, if i could, I would have already. It is not in my power to make new boards, so i am as helpless as the rest of you. My job is to make sure people follow the rules; where possible, i like to do that with as little friction as possible.

That said, as a mod, it is not my job to justify my actions. Please people, no not make me regret giving more leeway than i should. I want everyone to have a place to discuss, but getting badgered about it is making me think twice...
[Nook HD, HD+ General] leapinlar:
That's why I think the editing the database method is better. That Nook Color Tools app was fine for Nook Colors, but works kind of flacky on the HD+.

I think why these updates have not broken root is because so far they have been small incremental updates where they add or replace individual files rather than flash a whole new ROM. If they ever send a whole ROM, root, gapps, etc will be wiped, just like it is when it resets. That is why we need to block automatic updates. They may send one.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] roustabout:
I'm bringing in a copy of the 2.0.4 update now as a test, and it's 338.2 meg.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] leapinlar:
It's big, but they still may use incremental patch to install it. In other words, they do not format /system first. They either just install the changed files or copy all of the files over the top of the existing like the verygreen installer does to the Nook Color SD. Probably the latter so they can update the checksum file that they use as a test when it boots.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] roustabout:
That raises a question: are they using the checksum values in /manifest at all?

It seems to me that if we can replace files with symlinks, they're not doing much with those checksums.

I changed permissions on /system/bin/sdcard to try and deal with the slow media scanning on sdcard insertion and rebooted - no device wipe, so I know that permissions can be changed, also.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] leapinlar:
No, verygreen said it was somewhere else. Another partition. Look either about mid way through this thread or in his rooting thread. He also said it is a very simple check. Just checksums. Also on that scanning, put .nomedia in your folders and that may speed it up.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] dbh369:
I think they are 'dirty flashes' for now. But a ROM version change (e.g. to 4.2) would probably kill root. Did B&N ever do that to NC or NT?

editted: If just a checksum, maybe we can calculate our own and change the data somewhere? Complicated, but since the check is in the (locked) bootloader, that may be what we have to do... Hmm, and what exactly is it summing? A symlink wouldn't be a neutral impact there, unless they are skipped. Which is fine as long as we aren't moving a file (e.g. HOSTS). But I thought I read somewhere that HOSTS was moved and linked successfully?
[Nook HD, HD+ General] leapinlar:
Yes it was linked successfully. I think verygreen said that missing files are ok, new symlinks are ok, but changed files that are on the list are not ok because the checksum does not match. Files are checked individually.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] ibilln:
I agree with the above.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] madsquabbles:
actually i did use the database mod. i bought sqlilte just for this task. if no one else is getting updated after editing it, then it must be an error on my part.

first i tried copying the db to the sd card and transfer it to the computer but i couldn't see it - certain files remained hidden. i believe i did an adb pull next but had errors editing the file on the pc so i gave in and bought sqlite editor.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] shinjak:
Success! After an entire day of frustration trying to get adb to recognize my hd+ on my Windows 7 computer, I finally got it to work today. I think they key is to disable the mtp drivers as opposed to uninstalling them ( which didn't work). I then disabled the usb composite device, enabled debugging on the hd+, renabled usb composite interface, and voila! Adb recognizes the device. Thanks to everyone for their hard work and to whoever suggested disabling the drivers. I'm always amazed at the people willing to sacrifice their expensive devices for the benefit of the (typically) ungrateful masses. I had my own brick scare today, but that's a story for another day.

If anyone with W7 is having trouble, I can attempt to provide more detailed instructions.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] verygreen:
Symlinks are basically "file does not exist" from the checksum checking routinue. What it does is it reads file names off the /manifest file and then checks if the file is a regular file, if it is, checksum is verified, if it's not a regular file (i.e. symlink, or missing, or a dir), checksum is not verrified and the file is ignored.

Any regular files not listed in /manifest is also grounds to failing secure check.

the /manifest file is located on a signed ramdisk, so it requires fixing the bootloader to not check the signatures anymore, which is a lot of hassle just for rooting (though not all that hard to do, there are truck-sized holes left by B&N still), another problem is next upload most likely will update kernel+ramdisk again and that would start the bootlooping.

If we make bootloader to skip any signature checking, no need to calculate manifest checksums at all, just kill the file, or set ro.secure property to 0 which makes init to ignore any differences of /system with content of /manifest.

If there really is a lot of interest in this, I see an opening that does nto require any bootloader changes, but will change boot image, so it will need to be reapplied on updates. I am trying not to give out all my cards right now, since B&N proved to be pretty reactive and they do close holes we expose, and if I expose all of them at once, I am afraid liberating future devices would be more complicated.

I am sorry I am causing you all suffering with your trial/errors that result in bootloops if you do something wrong. I'll try to release a cwm sdcard real soon that will let you intercept the 8-times bootloops if you mess up and correct the issue without factory resets.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] sorrowuk:
verygreen , I see you just released a cm10 early build for kindle fire hd 8.9.

You managed to get cm10 working on nook hd+ but didnt release a cm10 early build ? Are you still working on this? Do you still have a nook hd+ ?

Thanks
[Nook HD, HD+ General] madsquabbles:
dang, even the kindle fire hd 8.9 has it's own subforum with all it's 20 posts... :(
[Nook HD, HD+ General] dbh369:
No eta requests! Awesome work evergreen.

---------- Post added at 03:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 PM ----------

That explains a lot, why sym links work but adding files fail. Thanks! So of we install something that changes /system we just move the file and link.

The ram disk is signed, is the check sum routine?
[Nook HD, HD+ General] sorrowuk:
My question doesn't ask for an eta. Its nothing to do with that. I think you read it wrong
[Nook HD, HD+ General] leapinlar:
Why would he post that long post and say he is going to made a CWM SD for us if he did not still have an HD+ and wasn't working on it? Think man! Don't bother him and us with questions that have obvious answers.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] roustabout:
thanks for the crystal clear explanation of the manifest file and what flexibility it gives us.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] Divine_Madcat:
OK guys.. Here is something that will hopefully keep people content until a real board is made..

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=34760275#post34760275

Dev away..
[Nook HD, HD+ General] verygreen:
The checksumming itself is part of init, the very first binary to run during boot, and init is stored in ramdisk image, which is signed and signature-checked by bootloader.

To answer other questions: I was actually planning to work on Nook HD+ this extended Thanksgiving weekend, but then got distracted by that whole Kindle thing that needed some urgent liberating too (and also waiting to see how some private NookHD+ discussions turn out).

I am switching to NookHD+ for the rest of this week (and yes, I still have my unit, the return deadline passed on 23rd, so there is no way back now, I guess).

The device tree still needs some massaging before it can go public, I imagine nobody would like a device tree that does not really compile or run yet.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] dbh369:
Thanks, still a noob on this, I guess this discussion need to move to the new Dev thread.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] CrispyCritter:
Yup. Believe it or not, I apparently was one of the 1st ppl to purchase a nook HD+ in Chicago. I just happened to be there for the weekend, and was bored whilst my wife was attending a wound care symposium.. so I stopped by the Best Buy store on Michigan ave. They didn't even have them on the shelves yet.. the clerk actually had to open their recently-received crate of them just so I could buy it.

I've since rooted it and installed the Google Play market, etc.. which of course allowed me to fully customize my HD+. I'm loving this thing. I just ordered one for my wife last night for her Christmas present.

I can't wait to have a true CM10 ROM for this. Only problem is the HD and HD+ have a very strict inventory check of the system folder upon each boot-up, so as of right now, one can only install apps which do not affect the system folder in any way at all.

Here's hoping for a quick workaround / all-out defeat of the system folder inventory check at boot-up...

BTW, I would be happy to test out any ROMs or Mods anyone may have in the works for the HD+. Just shoot me a PM here on the forums.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] dbh369:
Hey, I pre-ordered HD+ and it showed up Nov 3... ;)

Seriously, there is a work-around though a bit messy for the above. For /system changes you can move any changed or added file and sym link to it in /system. This is painful because reboot loop will happen if you forget after an update or something.

Still, as you say, a lot can be done already with it, and I too am loving it. Movies are awesome on it.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] RALIR:
Hi Everyone,

To say that I am confused is an understatement.

A few days ago, I had indicated that trying to edit the databases using SQLite Editor caused my Nook HD+ to go through 8-cycle reboot and revert to stock ROM and at that time, I decided to not bother with rooting and be simply satisfied with sideloading apps.

However, rooting bug did not leave me alone. So I thought I would try my hand again. Part of the reason was Someone0's comment that SuperSu can be problematic with rooting on Nook HD+, which I had done.

In any case, today I went through Someone0's rooting procedure, without resetting my Nook to out-of-box state. My ROM was 2.0.4. I had a large number of side-loaded apps on the system. The rooting procedure went normally, that is to say, on my Windows 7 computer, after each rooting step in the batch procedure, the Nook would not be recognized until I fiddle with switching the Nook back and forth between USB 2.0 port and USB 3.0 port and finally the batch procedure would continue. (This is nothing new so far.) After the final reboot, I tried to sideload only the key apps such as Nova launcher, ES File Explorer, Astro File manager, Terminal emulator and SQLite Editor using a batch file. Each one of them failed to install. Only then I realized that all my previously loaded apps were still on the system. The rooting procedure did not do anything to any of my settings and apps, etc. Then I thought perhaps rooting did not "happen".

However, when I tried the Terminal Emulator, it confirmed that I had rooted. ES File Explorer allowed me to access route files such as the Device Manager db file, settings db file, etc. I replaced these db files with previously off-line modified files, which was confirmed. Even now, I am able to get at these root folders. I was able to have Titanium Backup all my files. (It asked for root access and after I granted it, it went through backing up.)

However, when I tried to install one of the apk files from the Nook itself, it would not let me though my intent in replacing the settings db file was to allow non-market apps. When I tried to view the db files using SQLite Editor, it said I am not rooted.

So now I am not sure if I am rooted or not. I can still get at all the root files through ES File Explorer. Terminal Emulator still give # prompt after I execute "su" command.

Any thoughts? Comments?

Regards,

RaliR
[Nook HD, HD+ General] hwong96:
Being able to view root files does not guarantee proper root.Use RootChecker to verify proper root. Permissions were not set properly.Did you grant SQLite Editor superuser access?
[Nook HD, HD+ General] leapinlar:
You are using an old version of SQLite Editor. You need a newer version. Old versions won't find root on our device. Update and edit the DB directly with the new version.
[Nook HD, HD+ General] sorrowuk:
Thanks for the reply verygreen.

I was mainly just wondering if you still had your unit as I know you were maybe going to return it. I read this somewhere , maybe youtube.

I don't know if you know much at this stage yet but for cm10 comparing with kindle fire hd 8.9 do you know which will run cm10 better ? Is one device easier to get all the components working ?

And out of interest , what device do you like better hardware wise (say both devices were running cm10). The kindle or the nook ?

********

Anyone know why the sound when playing movies on the nook is quite low. If you play music its quite loud but when playing a movie its alot less.

Anyone know whats a good app to increase volume. And is there a way to make the increase work just for movies.

I am using bsplayer to play movies.

Also has B&N published the nook HD+ source code ? Where is it?

EDIT: Ok found the source code on their terms of service page. http://images.barnesandnoble.com/PResources/download/Nook/source-code/nook_hd_2.0.2.tar.bz2 and there is a delta patch to make it 2.0.4 http://images.barnesandnoble.com/PResources/download/Nook/source-code/nook_hd_2.0.4-delta.tar.bz2
[Nook HD, HD+ General] verygreen:
Well, I have too many tablets and NookHD+ did not overly impress me.

NookHD+ is easier for CM10, the CM10 demo you can see with lots of stuff working took me 1.5 days to put together.

The Kindle one took me 4-5 days and a lot less stuff works.

Nook is good for sd card, which opens some useful options like easier dual booting/dual OS and such.

Kindle has a camera which is something I also feel to be important in my tablets.

Cpu/memory wise they are pretty similar. screen is pretty similar too.