yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Asus Transformer TF700] HoushaSen:
The honest answer is nobody knows. Barry's point is one view but he's not a programmer (as far as I know) and though he does use objective data, his conclusion is simply his opinion and does sound logical but may not necessary be true statement (nor false). So my opinion or other guys in this forum are technically as good as Barry's as long as we have done the background research as Barry did. ;)

The issue is all of us are simply making a guess. There is no doubt we can improve overall function. The question is simply by how much. It may not have to be the extreme the best I/O in the world before you notice the issue completely eliminated in day to day use. However, I think nobody really knows by how much it improves by software and whether the degree be enough. The other question is if ASUS is capable and willing to spend the effort to achieve the goal. So if you still have an option to return or trade your TF300 (based on your signature), you probably should as there is no promise.

Most of us (I believe) keep this tablet because we like what it does at this point, and hoping to have even better experience in the future.

One thing though I think would be nice is someone with Zeus ROM to have some video clips to show some day to day activity clips to see how much I/O issue had been eliminated. Again, benchmark become irrelevant if you can eliminate the issue at the end user front.

Though this basically raises the question what function do you think is affected by I/O? Doing something else while downloading a large file? Browsing a web? Playing a game?

My guess is doing something else while downloading a large file, or perhaps copying a file from pc to internal storage. The test needs to be done more based on real life experience. I don't think Barry has ever used Zeus (I apologize if I am wrong) so he does not know how much software tweak can improve overall performance. Similarly, I do not know how much Zeus really improves as I never used one myself. So I really like to see someone post Zeus ROM running Infinity video clips rather than benchmark. And that I believe is most reliable indicator of what software can do or cannot do at least for this moment. Remember many drugs are out there that works well in the laboratory, or even on animals but may not be the same on human. :)

Oh by the way, Andtech's video is old. I believe it was taken with original firmware that US infinity came with. I just did the similar test i.e. over the AirDroid transfer multiple 50-100MB file in background with opening, closing and browsing. No noticeable speed lag at all. Though my test may not be accurate comparison as I have browser2ram installed on my machine. But it essentially proves (when comparing to the Andtech's video), software can and is indeed improving day to day performance.
[Asus Transformer TF700] jtrosky:
For those wondering, why not just try Zeus ROM? I'm sorry, but I'm not going to spend hours making comparison video just to try and convince others that they should try it....

If folks haven't tried it because they aren't unlocked, then they can't load it anyway...
[Asus Transformer TF700] HoushaSen:
True. But I think it can even prove to people who don't have Zeus that Software can do true gain in performance.

When I get chance, I may just make a quick video to prove software can indeed make difference in real life day to day performance. As fortunately, Barry's Anandtech video is taken by using older firmware, I can even show with my stock that the issue is already significantly improved. In which case, I may just make a different thread so people will see the point and hope they won't believe old firmware infinity is what currently running at. :)
[Asus Transformer TF700] BarryH_GEG:
But you're missing the bigger point. IO is probably one of the easiest and most elemental low-level functions to manage. The issues we're discussing have been around since the Prime was launched. As smart as the Zeus dev may be I'd like to think there are at least a handful of equally smart Asus programmers out there who after HC, ICS, and now JB haven't been able to compensate for IO h/w failings with s/w.

I made this a while ago when a similar discussion was going on in the Note forum. Try and replicate it on Zeus by having a large download going while opening multiple pages in the browser at the same time. If the issue's suddenly cured it would encourage people to take your advice and use Zeus.

[YOUTUBE]AnyzQOE_Auo[/YOUTUBE]
[Asus Transformer TF700] HoushaSen:
Now I think I/O is indeed fundamental building block, but for the application to application usually I/O is not as crucial component as others. Simple example. Do you think Macbook Air with SSD is far superior/faster all round than the Desktop PC with 7200rpm harddrive? The answer is not clear is it? You would probably ask what is my CPU, GPU etc. The booting time is definitely faster on Macbook air but once you have windows 7 get going, depending on the rest of hardware you can run high resolution game without any issue; whereas, Macbook Air won't be able to (even if it runs windows 7 using dual boot.) The idea is cache is faster than ram, and ram is faster than harddrive. So no matter how fast harddrive is usually bottle neck may be at other place. I am not saying IO is not important. Horrible IO can indeed make major issue, but what ASUS had used is just last gen Nand rather than current gen, which is still acceptable and they can do programming/software changes to shift IO issue. Obviously, when everything becomes its maximum, at the end IO may be bottleneck and Infinity may not go beyond that but no developer can push that in Android Ecosystem at this moment; otherwise, every android tablet device out there except Galaxy Note 10.1 may be obsolete. :)

Here is my evidence of what software can do. http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=31937798#post31937798
[Asus Transformer TF700] CandyAndy:
How easy would it be to change the NAND drive? impossible? at ifix it they are pretty good of tearing things apart..

Pissed at Asus that they ruined the tablet by being cheap of some part which doesn't even cost much..
[Asus Transformer TF700] fredcorp6:
Does someone mind telling me what I/o score shows?
[Asus Transformer TF700] seesser:
Ok can anyone else confirm this.

I was rooted and unlocked running Zeus 4.0, twrp backed up everything, flashed the 30 update, and rebooted. I rerooted the tab (same method as before) and goo installed twrp. I then restored only my system partition that I backed up, wiped both cache and fixed permission, then rebooted. I now am getting 5300+ quad scores. My scores were in the 3000s range after the update and after the restoring system partition. It wasn't untilled I wiped both cache and fixed permissions that it started hitting the 5300s every time.

Has anyone else flashed the 30 update then restored Zeus system? If so what is your benchmarks?

Update: even after docking and letting everything get running in the background I still put up 4800s. Only mod I made from Zeus is I set my apps per sec to 4 like it is in the update.
[Asus Transformer TF700] Mykew:
Followed same process as you. Stats look good, but am getting lots of bugs (hanging blank screen) with my launchers
[Asus Transformer TF700] seesser:
I'm not noticing anything big bug wise but I at work and can't really do much testing right now. Maybe it will stablize after a little time and a reboot or two. I will put mine through more test when I get home.

---------- Post added at 05:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:31 AM ----------

Also Zeus posted a few days back about working on 5.0 that will have the 30 update in it. Said he would be working on it this post weekend. So maybe a release in the next few days.
[Asus Transformer TF700] 350zxtrm:
Rooted but with locked bootloader

Stock .30 rom with tweaks (I'm thinking about putting a post together about what I've done to get it here, it's been quite a bit of work)

One run, reboot, another run
[Asus Transformer TF700] monkey10120:
i would love to see what you did to get speeds like that!
[Asus Transformer TF700] 350zxtrm:
Yeah, I'm writing it up in Word, when I'm done, I'll post it in general to help anyone who might be trying to gain some performance without having to unlock the bootloader. The tweaks weren't original work by me, they all came from the talented developers here and various other sites/forums. I just collected them all together and started testing them in different configurations. I also added comments in all the files as to what the tweaks are supposed to do. Even if they didn't help, I left them in and commented them so they don't do anything. Maybe someone will find use for them later? I'll post all of that once I have time.

I've done just about every single tweak I could find in various combinations. I've had to reinstall the rom completely a couple of times because some of what I tried completely hosed the speed.

Out of the box, this thing sucked! Made my old Prime seem like greased lightning. There was a 2-10 second lag on almost every input.

It is very responsive now, but I'm still testing more combinations. I don't generally worry too much about benchmarking scores given they don't really tell you much about real world usage, but...

My scores before the changes I made were always between 950 and 1050 for I/O and around 3700-3900 total. Last time I had to reinstall the rom, I was getting about 550 on I/O and 2600 total. Using the tablet was impossible.
[Asus Transformer TF700] floyd0815:
Has anyone got over 6000 in I/O EVER???

I did!!!

My SGSIII mounts the data and cache partition with the option "journal_async_commit" (which should give some extra performance) and so I did mount them on my TF700 the same way -> HUGE IMPROVEMENT!

I am on this .26 ROM and I got 1092 in I/O (performance mode) without the tweak. (see second screenshot)

Then I mounted the two partitions with the tweak (see first screenshot for terminal in-/output):

First run in Quadrant: 5528 in I/O (see third screenshot)

Second run in ...: 6071 in I/O (see fourth screenshot)
[Asus Transformer TF700] floyd0815:
Hi!

Just saw your post. (I read the thread but stopped at the xbox vs. ps3 comparsion...)

What exactly did you do? Did you mount the partitions with other options (like I did) or other things?

Could you try to add my tweak and post a quadrant score?

THX

EDIT:

Changed "noauto_da_alloc" to "auto_da_alloc" because of fsync problems...
[Asus Transformer TF700] originalnabisco:
I am -very- interested in what you did to achieve such extraordinary I/O scores! Would it be possible to do without unlocking the bootloader by any chance?
[Asus Transformer TF700] floyd0815:
Damn...

I've tried to include the mount option into the kernel from ZeusV4 but it doesn't work.

init.cardhu.rc:

mount ext4 /dev/block/mmcblk0p8 /data wait noatime nosuid nodev journal_async_commit,data=ordered,delalloc
mount ext4 /dev/block/mmcblk0p2 /cache wait noatime nosuid nodev journal_async_commit,data=ordered,delalloc

also tried

mount ext4 /dev/block/mmcblk0p8 /data wait noatime nosuid nodev journal_async_commit data=ordered,delalloc
mount ext4 /dev/block/mmcblk0p2 /cache wait noatime nosuid nodev journal_async_commit data=ordered,delalloc

Does someone know why or how it should be done?

PS: Got 6225 and 5960 I/O in Quadrant with ZeusKernel and mount option. :D
[Asus Transformer TF700] hit173:
hey man is there anyway you can post your build prop for download? i cant really edit mine since im not to familiar with it and i dont have time to do so. so can you please post a downloadable one so i can just replace mine and save it somewhere.
[Asus Transformer TF700] seesser:
Not trying to be mean but you do know any line that starts with # is read as a program comment. With that said over half of your build.prop is comments and don't need to be there.
[Asus Transformer TF700] 350zxtrm:
I'm aware it's used for comments, that's why I did it. I've been testing all sorts of different combinations of settings. I'm not always by my computer while I'm playing around with this, so it is helpful to have it in the file so I can just delete the # when I want to test something. Once I get to a final configuration I'm happy with, I'll take everything I'm not using out.

It's just part of how I handle data. I've also got two folders in /sdcard called /stockfiles and /tweakedfiles that don't need to be there, but it's helpful to have it at my fingertips when I have some time to kill and want to try something different.

I was going to post my actual current build.prop file, cpu(1,2,3).sh files and init.d file in my other post, but:

I am on the US version of the stock .30 rom. There could easily be differences between your build.prop, etc and mine (even if you are running the same setup). You could easily brick your device if you tried to use mine directly.
[Asus Transformer TF700] hit173:
im on stock .30 us version too.
[Asus Transformer TF700] 350zxtrm:
I could send you the files attached to a PM, but honestly it is just as much work to use adb or terminal emulator to get them in the right directories with the right permissions as it is to edit them.

If you really want them and understand the risks and assume the responsibility, PM me and I'll send them that way. Keep in mind that even if you have the files, you still have to get them in the right places and set permissions correctly. Also, build.prop tweaks do not make big differences usually, it is really enabling init.d and doing the filesystem tweaks that open up the I/O...
[Asus Transformer TF700] 350zxtrm:
Thanks for the explanation. That tracks with what I stated about Quadrant showing a gain, but other benchmarks not indicating the same sort of gains. I have not seen a drop in performance in the other benchmarks or in day to day use though. Actually the tablet is very responsive in normal use at this point, although not everyone's normal use is the same... I don't do taxing work on a tablet, its mainly just for browsing, maybe editing a file here and there, etc.

Now that I think about it, I think I spend most of my time on the tablet just playing around with trying to make it run better. Seems like a dumb reason to own a $500 tablet... :confused:
[Asus Transformer TF700] BarryH_GEG:
Keep playing. Now that you understand the relationships between the various functions there may still be a way to find some balance that ratchets down SQL a bit and benefits some of the others. Truly, with a Teg3 processor, the SQL (in app) performance gains shown probably wouldn't feel as dramatically different as they look on paper. If you guys can work on the write scores that would make the biggest overall difference in performance. That without question is the biggest Achillles Heal.
[Asus Transformer TF700] CryTeknik:
Here My bench: all stock. 30 ota
[Asus Transformer TF700] HoushaSen:
Good attempt except to make true apple to apple comparison, I would really like to see

Stock TF700 vs. Zeus TF700 & Stock TF300 vs. JB TF300. Comparing against Galaxy Note 10.1 as a side to put a actual value may be good to see how it plays against the most advanced IO containing tablet out there on current market, but really does not speak of how much things are improved on its own.

These will essentially take out any other confound factors. Even using the same IO hardware, I am not sure how well benchmark can completely eliminate other component like RAM, CPU etc. as simply nothing can completely operate without other parts.

More importantly, you need actual time/values.

Because if one operation takes 1 second and the other takes 20 seconds, then % change can be totally misleading.

For example,

Let's say sequential read takes 1 second but sql insert takes 20 seconds on Note. Taking infinity on Zeus as example. It is 2 seconds, and 10 seconds. If two operations are used as frequently, you are essentially gaining overall performance of nearly double (total 12 seconds when compared to 21 seconds). However, if this was the opposite then 0.5 seconds and 40 seconds, which is essentially you are doubling the overall effect.

Again, this is very simplified as I do not know on average which operation predominates. But I am assuming with the claims that Zeus improving its performance, the areas Zeus got significant improvement are indeed the area used much more frequently or perhaps too much longer time before.

But I hope you would make a table with actual values, with stock TF700, TF700 Zeus, TF300 ICS, TF300 JB and Galaxy Note 10.1 on your spare time because that data can suggest several things. The biggest missing piece even after which though is end user experience e.g. set a some standard test such as downloading X size file, and browse and compare page loading time etc. So we know actual impact on the actual user experience. But definitely if you can make the table that is a big step.
[Asus Transformer TF700] BarryH_GEG:
U

I'll be happy to do it if someone provides the stock TF700 and non-JB stock TF300 AndroBench scores.

My Teg3 One X is actually faster than the Note at IO. As is the SGS3. The Note actually has some funky issue with SQL inserts that causes it to lag behind the One X and SGS3. But any device with a dedicated IO controller should perform similarly. So in that respect the Note's not that "advanced." And since they're priced the same and launched months apart it seems like a fair comparison.

This is a 49 page thread in the N7 forum discussing lag. About page seven they discover the IO issue(s). Their fix is the same as what's in Zeus but, as said above, it doesn't have much affect outside the performance of one individual app at a time and has no effect on system storage.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1776538

It's a good point. There are three components to AndroBench. 1) System storage tests, 2) SQLite local database tests, and 3) macros that test the IO performance of individual apps by emulating them. Not knowing why AndroBench's developers picked the testing methodology they did you have to assume it was generalized to represent common use. Since we're comparing devices using the exact same tests the results are representative. Perhaps Asus' tablets do better with smaller or larger bits of data or maybe that makes them worse. Since the One X, Note, and SGS3 are all within single digit percentages of each other it kind of begs the question why Asus' tablets aren't. Does anyone whose owned other tablet brands like Acer, Lenovo, Sony, or Motorola know if they have IO issues based on the NAND solutions used? Because at the end of the day that's what's behind every IO discussion we're having.

Going 100MPH in a BMW "feels" very different then going 100MPH in a Chevy Aveo. But 100MPH is still 100MPH no matter how it feels. Statistically, outside of Zeus' improved SQLite speeds, the remainder of the TF700's benchmark scores haven't changed that much. You used an example of using Browser2RAM as a way of getting around the specific issue of browser non-responsiveness when downloading. It's a great work around but a work around nonetheless. It's not improving download speeds it’s camouflaging the issue by allowing you to browse concurrently. IO is pretty pervasive so it's going to be hard to find solutions for all the issues poor h/w performance is creating. Kind of like sticking your finger in a dyke to keep it from leaking. ;)
[Asus Transformer TF700] BxMxK:
Interesting stuff

Ok. Maybe the nand in the Infinity isn't the greatest, however, the way Androbench is being used is almost worthless. I had tried it several times before I noticed the cache settings. It's using a 256k read buffer and 4k write buffer by default? Wtf? How does that show any measure of performance? By piling up system write calls?

Turn the buffers up to 2048k and try it. Now your sequential and randoms speeds can almost match.

The major hangup with this tablet's IO is just like any other linux box with an SSD. Poor file system management.

Granted the overall read/write speeds could be much faster... but until ASUS or some dev with plenty of time on his/her hands tweaks the file system to manage IO more efficiently this tab is just going to choke and sputter until something better comes along. Until then, any agonizing over these benchmarks is just is retarded.

Just for fun though... Here's a 10k+ Quadrant I/O in normal mode :rolleyes:
[Asus Transformer TF700] okantomi:
How was it that you said you achieved these scores? I would like to do that too.
[Asus Transformer TF700] floyd0815:
The left one: edited settings in Androbench.

The right one: PhotoShop ;)

(I think...)
[Asus Transformer TF700] smalis:
Interesting thread. On stock .26 and stock .30, my Quadrant is in the low 4000's, with I/O in the low 1000's. With Zeus 4.0, Quadrant increases to ~4500 and I/O gets into the low 3000's. I am running stock .30 for now because some of my apps do not agree with Zeus, and I am well satisfied with stock performance at any rate. Not sure the low I/O has much of a performance effect on my use of the device.

But, I do love tinkering, and I will definitely give Zeus 5.0 a shot, and am looking forward to JB.
[Asus Transformer TF700] BarryH_GEG:
Piling up small segments of data tests the IO controller's throughput.

Your numbers on the left, the Note at 2048KB on the right. The results are linear which means at 256KB/4KB or 2048KB the performance differences are the same. Except in SQL which you have tweaked.
[Asus Transformer TF700] HoushaSen:
http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/0...hmark-11-modern-devices-compared-in-13-tests/

Above site has original benchmark of TF700 when it got released I believe with original firmware. Also same time TF300. Somehow they ended up combining random read/write etc. But may be good number to start.

As far as benchmark representing common daily use is pretty doubtful because usually benchmarks attempts to test maximal capacity/capability i.e. you are stressing the system to really get benchmark. Though Androbench may be the most detailed IO benchmark, the question still remains if it is most reflective of the real world experience. If it is the case, you would think more major review sites uses it. Having said this, many sites made bad comment about Galaxy Note 10.1, which I personally disagreed, so who knows what most review sites are doing.

Now the question here using your example is yes. 100MPH is what it is; however, the in reality when can you drive in 100MPH? Perhaps possible in Idaho, Montana or North Dakota (sorry I have nothing against them) but in Washington State or here in Minnesota, if you drive in 100 MPH you get in a huge trouble. So what's my point here? Well, using the driving as example if you commute to work sure I may not be able speed my car with 100MPH but I can still arrive the destination nearly same time as my collegues who drives Porche. Why? Simple. You just don't drive with 100MPH even if you do, that would be very short distance. Most time you drive free way with city traffic, side road etc. where you never need to get 100MPH. So boost in speed may become apparent when you allow to push to the limit but most time it won't. So end result is nearly identical.

This is what I believe going on with hardware/software. And again I have no clue to what extent software an fix it and if that is enough or not. If the software fix only pushes from 10MPH car into 20 MPH and most of road you drive is 50-60 MPH limit, you see slight performance improvement but far from someone who drives car with 60MPH capability. But I don't think anyone know the speed limit i.e. real life average capacity on tablet.

And again, Browser2Ram was browser solution of its own, but I truly believe ASUS made some change already on their own; otherwise, why would I be able to launch FF3 game without any delay?

Very interesting discussion though. :)