yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 7 General] jersonf:
I've never done a stress test on my C70 N7, I've heard people complain about screen flicker when the brightness is set to minimum then send it back, personally I always set my my phone and tab to ³/4, I see no reason in finding a problem under a condition I would never use, also I read up that this has happen on other tegra 3 devices.

Tiny scratch on the bezel? many people here would've sent that back, so good for you on being human, I just looked at my bezel, the top right and bottom right corner of the bezel is not formed as correctly as the other side, it roughly looks about 2mm-3mm in deformation, also I believe I have 0.2mm-0.4mm on of screen lift on the left side.

If the device cost over £2000 and was made by Bang & Olufsen/McLaren/TAG Heuer then it wouldn't be acceptable.

It doesn't and I don't have a OCD..... well ok i lied, you'll never see me with a sweat patch under my armpits I'm really fussy about that, anyone can have and its natural, but not for me, I can blame creation, have my pit glands removed or deal with it.

Guess I'll deal with it, I added that in for a laugh and its actually true, but I do feel some people, not all... are intentionally looking for a fault which are so minor it beggars belief, then send it back multiple times, I have returned products which are ACTUALLY FAULTY, if the replacement was also faulty then I would ask for a refund, I would never go back again and again and again and again......ad infinitum.

That right there shows some sort of behavioural problem.... IMO of course. :D

Sent from my Nexus 7

Motorola Atrix (Mokee OS v1.10.436)

Nexus 7 (Stock + root)
[Nexus 7 General] vulcanize:
Been owning my N7 for almost a month and really pushing it to the limits - yet to find serious flaws whatsoever.

:)
[Nexus 7 General] clay347:
Hey bro I'm sorry about all your troubles with your N7 but I don't have any problems with my N7 what so ever and I mean nothing no lift/ flicker or reboots and all my games work perfectly and my N7 is a early build and I guess I should tell you it's not rooted either it's bone stock but bro I'm wishing you the best of luck with your N7 oh BTW I got mine at office depot 16GB GOD BLESS YOU BROTHER
[Nexus 7 General] myke66:
Sorry, but this was the first thing that popped in my head when reading this post.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results"
[Nexus 7 General] tannor:
My first one had one dead pixel. My second one is perfect.

No screen lift or any issue and dead pixels can happen with any LCD.

So I am happy.
[Nexus 7 General] superste2201:
Mine has none,

I'm very fussy with dead pixels and have even download an app, I can take some pics if you want.

No flickering with low brightness which some people have reported.

Screen is flat, no lifting and is the same all around the unit.

Even with heavy usage by my 4 year old daughter and even a drop on to hard floor it is fine.

First one. UK 8gb preorder.
[Nexus 7 General] RedAlertUK:
I bought one in France 2 weeks ago and no issues at all.

Screen is perfect, no pixel issues and no lifting issues.

Very happy with the tablet, excellent build quality.

I guess all the issues are fixed now that they are past the initial few production runs.
[Nexus 7 General] genetic608:
Ordered from the play store, my first one was a C60, had minor screen lift that gradually got worse after only two weeks of use. It didn't bother me much, but day 3 I noticed a single dead pixel in the middle of the screen that I simply couldn't "un-see".

RMA'd with Google.

2nd one came a few days ago, also a C60, no dead pixels, no screen lift or creaks. Screen looks vibrant, not washed out like I've heard reports of with no flickering and no bleeding from the backlight, even close to the sides.

Overall I'm impressed with the customer service, it was very easy to return, and I even got my new one before I had to send back the old. Just my 2c

Edit: Also, the new one can actually handle Clemsyns Elite 1.8ghz 650 gpu o/c. The first one couldn't. So I couldn't be happier :D
[Nexus 7 General] MrSchroeder:
Mine are flawless.

The 8gb I had to swap one time, it was a return and play store bonus $25 was already used. Swapped for new and all good.
[Nexus 7 General] jersonf:
Exactly!

Not that any XDA members are insane btw (jersonf dodges a deformation of character lawsuit)

Not forgetting that people just sometimes copy each other, I used to own an LG U8110 back in '05 and I remember with my carrier at the time, the phone couldn't do a message delivery report and got swept up in the nonsense with other users in multiple forums, then bombarding the carrier basically looking for some form of compensation.

Truth was, I never used the feature, but got caught up and went with it, the result was.......nothing.

Sent from my Nexus 7

Motorola Atrix (Mokee OS v1.10.436)

Nexus 7 (Stock + root)
[Nexus 7 General] Switchbitch:
I really don't like the attitude some people have regarding my post. I stated that I believe every Nexus to suffer from a manufacturing defect. If your Nexus came off the same production line as the 5 I have examined, then it has the same defect. If the defect has not manifested itself in the form of a visible flaw, then you are either lucky, not seeing the flaw, don't care about the flaw or it hasn't happened yet. Remember when people couldn't make calls with their iPhone if they held it a certain way because of the location of the internal antenna? Every unit suffered the problem because of the design regardless of whether the user noticed it or not.

People here seem to be getting defensive about their Nexus experience. Some are even calling me insane for returning a faulty product. Can I remind you guys that this is XDA and not MacRumors?

My current Nexus has minor defects, but I'm not returning it yet because I know that within a fortnight it will have a major issue which will warrant replacement. That's how confident I am in the lack of design quality of this thing.

Let me just add though; the Nexus would be absolutely fantastic without the faults.
[Nexus 7 General] dparrothead1:
And you think people should like your attitude when you are basically telling us that we are too stupid to know if our device is defective or not?????
[Nexus 7 General] ÜBER™:
He didn't say that he said your either lucky, don't see it, or don't care enough to make it out. Since clamping my N7 my screen shows the slightest lift and hasn't been getting worse surprisingly. There really was a really big manufacture flop in terms of quality control for these issues to be so prevelant. I'm sure there are more good units than bad but for there to be this many bad shows poor control on the OEMS side.

Sent From My N7 via White Tapatalk
[Nexus 7 General] crisvillani:
Hey guys got a quick question for those with screen lift did it come like this out of the box or did it gradually start to lift after a few days , weeks?

Got a C7O no issues so far but got a bit a creakin sound when the left top corner is pushed, just wondering if the screen is gonna start to lift or not.
[Nexus 7 General] dparrothead1:
And that's not saying that people don't have enough sense to see a defect????

And who is the more intelligent......the person who believes he has NO defects or the person who is positive that ALL N7's are defective, yet continues to buy them????? :confused:
[Nexus 7 General] Switchbitch:
Let me analogise this with the iPhone reference I used: I'm saying the iPhone 4 has a defect which causes it to drop reception when held a certain way. It's a design issue, therefore every iPhone 4 suffers from it. You haven't noticed the problem, so you're saying that I'm saying you're stupid because you haven't noticed it? I don't care if you notice it or not, it's there.

People don't seem to understand statistics either. If 5 people tell me their first Nexus is perfect, then that's only 5 out of 10 that are supposedly fault free since I've had 5 faulty ones. That makes a 50% fault rate. If 5 people tell me their 2nd Nexus is perfect but the first one they got was faulty, then that's 10 out of 15 that are faulty; 67% fault rate. For all the faulty units described on XDA, there would literally have to be hundreds of thousands of faultless Nexus' just to offset the amount of faulty units to an acceptable rate. I'm sure there are many many people who have units they think are perfect who don't post here, but I'm sure there's just as many with faults they don't notice or care about.

Of 100 electronic devices like the Nexus, how many would you expect to be faulty? 1? 2? 5? 10? Let's say Asus let through one faulty unit for every ten good ones, which is some pretty bad quality control. The odds of me getting 5 faulty ones in a row are 1 in 100,000. If 1 in 100 Nexus' are faulty, the odds of 5 faulty units in a row are 1 in 10,000,000,000. I know people have had 7 bad ones before giving up, so the statistics speak for themselves. The odds against getting several faulty units in a row are astronomical unless there is a very high rate of faulty units. Add to this the fact that several members have independently established that the Nexus has design issues and I conclude that I would have to be stupid not to acknowledge that most if not all Nexus' are fundamentally flawed.
[Nexus 7 General] Switchbitch:
Let me clarify something. I'm not continuing to buy them. I bought ONE and have been exchanging it until I get what I paid for.
[Nexus 7 General] :
Mine is A-OK

Not one problem here, received it a week ago tomorrow and have been using it non-stop. Maybe they've gotten better with practice.
[Nexus 7 General] tkolev:
Statistics are all about coming to the wrong conclusion with the right data. Even if in this thread you have 50% fault ratio, it has nothing to do with real world. Most of the people don't care about XDA and most of the N7 owners with flawless units here don't care about this thread (especially seeing the OP perceiving himself as the God of QC). So what you finally get is a poll in which everyone from the minority (those with faulty units) vote and almost no one from the majority does. Guess if the result reflects the real situation.

N7 is a budget product. This has to say enough to those that expect "perfection". That being said, the quality is great. Much more expensive products that have far inferior hardware don't come close to the quality of the N7. I honestly think you can't get better deal for $200/$250
[Nexus 7 General] Switchbitch:
Actually, statistics can make predictions about large sets of data from smaller sets of data. If 1 in 10 of x has property y, then likely 10 in 100 of x has property y and so on. Yes there are a lot of Nexus owners not posting on XDA but that includes both those with and without faulty units, in their opinion.

You're assuming that every unhappy owner reports their faulty unit to XDA however I would argue that those posting are a fraction of the collection of owners who either have a fault they notice, a fault they don't notice or a fault they don't care about.

Like I said, several faulty units in a row = a very very high rate of faulty units or astronomically bad luck. As a rational person, I assume the former. Also, we know there is a design fault, so we have empirical data to support the statistical data.

The Nexus 7 is faulty.
[Nexus 7 General] drpepe:
I don't think anyone here can make grand assumptions from posts on the forum. A tiny minority of Nexus 7 owners post here and many of them visit because of problems. Also, the type of user here is not the average consumer, so may be more conscious of very minor problems (a neurosis which become amplified by threads like this).

Perhaps it is also due to the threshold at which a device can be defined as 'faulty'. Unless there is a fault that causes malfunction or the device to fall apart then this is a grey area that includes very very minor aesthetic imperfections (much of the screen lift) which imo are within manufacturing tolerances and are therefore not faulty.
[Nexus 7 General] jersonf:
When it comes to statistics of faulty Nexus 7s, people need actual facts and figures to able to make any sort of rational statement regarding failure rates.

Now I don't have any figures but let's assume over 100,000 units were sold, according to your hypothetical example 10% are faulty, has anybody seen 10,000 individual users complain about faulty Nexus 7s?

How about 1000 individual users returning the Nexus 7 10 times?

This actually is a very important because it is my assertion that those individuals are likely to have experienced similar problems with other products, that could be electronics, clothes, food etc. This is just my opinion of course.

Anyways...

What is the expected failure rate?

A quick search shows Samsung TVs with roughly a 3% failure rate which is excellent, and Panasonic failure rates are even lower 1-2%, we'll use that as a barometer.

So let's agree that the Asus Nexus 7s has a 10% failure rate, which is high, then can we agree that those 10% of faulty products fall upon the same 2% of people who happen to return the Nexus 7 back 5 times?

That is a very important statistic using your own figures, this is why when it comes to statistics its important to have and show ALL facts and figures otherwise they're useless, because they only show half and hide the other = false.

Sent from my Nexus 7

Motorola Atrix (Mokee OS v1.10.436)

Nexus 7 (Stock + root)
[Nexus 7 General] tkolev:
Nope. You can make predictions if that small set is unbiased. With any poll in any internet forum that is not the case. The only prediction you can make is "xx % of those that would care enough to post in this thread if they knew it existed, have a faulty N7". Everything else is a speculation and not a prediction based on real statistical data.

I think you are mistaking "imperfect" with "faulty". From my statistical data I'd say that 100% of the people are imperfect but I wouldn't call you "faulty" ;)
[Nexus 7 General] swisstourist:
In mechanic u have a marge of imprecision which is a few mm based on the distance.

Then you have a marge of unprecision if precision is required or less required....

By example, aileron in a plane are precise, while child seat in kitchen is not precise.... Guess why?

Ashtray in your car is not precise while engine is very precise.... Guess why?

So if you have 0.05 mm like on my left side glass, this is considered not defect.... It s Normal....!

Because precision is not always precise....

Got it?

Envoyé depuis mon Nexus 7 avec Tapatalk
[Nexus 7 General] mustbepbs:
wat.
[Nexus 7 General] myke66:
I think a lot of people are arguing the OP's post based on emotion, not facts. Fact is, yes there is obviously a defect in the units screen adhesion. There is screen lift, and there shouldn't be. It's widespread across multiple unit types, so yes, there is a defect.

It may not present in all, or as bad in all, but there's a defect. Its certainly not that noticeable for some (myself included), but I can still recognize there's a problem. Not to mention Asus obviously does as well with the changes they are trying for each batch to correct it.

Unfortunately it's hard to hear that these awesome tablets we love so much have faults, but being willfully ignorant about it is not the answer.

Also, @OP, I wasn't calling YOU insane, just the concept of returning something 5 times expecting better results insane, lol.
[Nexus 7 General] jersonf:
And I second the above, if something is faulty it's faulty, but I'm slightly alarmed about the number of threads where people send things back multiple times, in one thread the most returns I've seen were 7 times, then Google decided to give them their money back and said goodbye.

If I owned the company, I would've stopped at the 3rd return, refunded the money and say sorry and goodbye.

If I had to return my TV twice I would ask for a refund, there's no way I would send it back 4,5,6,7,8 times.

Why would I want something that I had to constantly have to send back because of the fault, after the 3 time I'm sure someone will personally inspect the product before shipping to make sure its in fine working order, then people complain because its been opened, I've seen this here on this forum.

Sent from my Nexus 7

Motorola Atrix (Mokee OS v1.10.436)

Nexus 7 (Stock + root)
[Nexus 7 General] irishrally:
Yes, you certainly proved that.
[Nexus 7 General] steveoriginal:
i literally lol'd in my office.
[Nexus 7 General] .torrented:
Just picked mine up at a local walmart (im really impatient when it comes to buying electronics) and i have a C80 and it doesnt suffer from any of the described issues that you mention in the OP
[Nexus 7 General] MoInSTL:
Bought mine used. C50. Seems pretty perfect so far.
[Nexus 7 General] Cor-master:
This was a great well thought out post. Me personally I don't believe it's a defect, more the result of poor quality control, basically nexuses leaving the factory that shouldn't. Mine is perfect, well as far as screen lift is concerned anyway. I've been pretty paranoid about it and I feel no play and holding it up to the light the bezel rises slightly above the screen the whole way around. But as far as perfect, well its not. It does have some horizontal line flickers, slightly washed out colors, and occasional multi touch problems when waking from sleep, but nothing I'd warranty it over.

I guess I have to be realistic in thinking that yeah this tablet would suck if not for pure aosp and support from Google. After getting burned so bad by HTC with my flyer, I'm honestly scared to even buy another android device without the Nexus name slapped on it.
[Nexus 7 General] jersonf:
I don't know what to say, I've seen your screen shots, you would send that back multiple times, I wouldn't .

You would call that a fault? I would say that was not the best production I've seen, yet I would never walk 5 minutes to Argos or Tescos to return what you showed in that picture, I remember weeks ago looking at my tab at 87-88° (pathetic) and thinking people were having 2-3mm of screen lift, but no..... most have what you showed in your pictures.

If that's the evidence of fault, to call up a call centre, to take photos at an 87° angle, to RMA multiple times of that?

Is beyond the pale and puerile, everybody has standards, problems only arise when you want low cost but expect high standards equal to something double the price.....it doesn't happen in life.

And when people get what they pay for instead of the high standards for peanuts they go of on one.

I've seen the damning evidence and I'm literally rolling my eyes,

Its probably only me but Jeez.

Sent from my Nexus 7

Motorola Atrix (Mokee OS v1.10.436)

Nexus 7 (Stock + root)
[Nexus 7 General] Visa Declined:
The glass on my C80 n7 doesn't sit below the bezel on any side of it. It sits just a hair above, but it's even all the way around. Does the glass normally sit below?
[Nexus 7 General] Yusei:
A friend got a Nexus7 in Barcelona and guess what? 8 dead pixels but no bezel/screen defect, he got a C80.
[Nexus 7 General] pxlitup:
Firstly, only one of those photos is mine (the one in the body of the post). I went on at length about how that one was the least severe of the three, and that if I had known that some amount of separation is to be expected I would have considered keeping it.

Absolutely. If you discover that your glass is higher than the bezel and can be flexed, saying your device is flawless would make you a liar.

The adhesive under the left side of the display is failing right out of the box. That separation will definitely progress over time, whether it's a lot or very little.

We're both speculating about how serious it might be in the long run, but if you don't think that's potentially serious you're crazy.

Only one of those pictures has separation.

Those photos attached at the end are the only user submitted evidence that flush screens exist. Can't you see that the silver line of the left bezel is intact?

I don't know what amount of screen lift would be considered average, but the separation of my second unit was markedly less severe than the other two Nexus 7s I returned. Since my post is largely about the merits of accurate inspection and reporting, it makes sense for the only image in my post to be a subtle example.

87°

You seriously think this is 87°?

Screen separation not withstanding, the Nexus 7 is an amazing device. Why do you attribute this flaw to cost limitations?

Screen lift is a consequence of poor frame design and weak adhesive. Both of those weaknesses could have been addressed during the design process and the solutions would not have been prohibitively expensive at the $200 price point. It could have been fixed at little to no cost if they caught it early enough, but now they're committed and ASUS QA is fiddling with scews.

Providing evidence that screen lift exists was not one of my objectives when I was writing that.

But if that's all you're interested in, I think this is a more typical example than my second unit.

[YOUTUBE]oCYRfxUl0Ew[/YOUTUBE]
[Nexus 7 General] Cor-master:
Even though I've had a trouble free nexus for the most part, denying the screen lift issue is a common problem is ignorant. And people who say "well its a $200 tablet what did you expect?" are in denial imo. The materials aren't the problem, the design and lack of qc are, and that wouldn't cost any money to fix. Let's face it, this is the Google equivalent of the RROD.

Imo the best solution would be a redesign in which the glass sits under the plastic. But I've said it before and I'll say it again, early adopters get screwed. If you have the screen lift problem your best bet is to try one of the fixes and wait till a hardware revision is launched before you make a claim again.
[Nexus 7 General] agtitan:
84.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
[Nexus 7 General] DroidDioxide:
There must be
[Nexus 7 General] sedelman:
My first one had the screen lifted on the left. My second one is completely fine. Why would you continue to mess around after 9 times?
[Nexus 7 General] pxlitup:
dparrothead1,

I see that you've thanked jersonf for essentially telling me that my lift was a nonissue.

Why would you take that position if you have a flawless device?

If yours is perfect, and you don't think it's as common as some have suggested, why shouldn't I exchange it until I get one that's as good as yours?
[Nexus 7 General] dparrothead1:
1. I don't owe you any explanations.

2. I refuse to be drawn in to a pointless, and completely useless, internet argument.
[Nexus 7 General] pxlitup:
I'm sorry that my question offended you. That was not my intention.
[Nexus 7 General] irishrally:
Vintage!
[Nexus 7 General] tkolev:
I also thanked him just to have a reason to answer this post :) . Flawless does not, I repeat NOT, mean perfect. The hair thin screen lift is imperfection not a flaw. The only displays that don't have any kind of light bleeding are the amoleds, but they are hindered by so many other issues (burns, short life, unequal aging of the colors...) that the light bleeding on the LCDs is almost non-issue compared to the amoleds.

To answer your second question. Even if I had the screen lift I'd not return mine because I consider this to be an imperfection, not a flaw. As I've said no one is perfect but not everyone is 'faulty' ;)
[Nexus 7 General] :
That's because 5 out of 4 people have trouble with fractions.