yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 7 General] kitsunisan:
Netflix/Hulu+ trumps Amazon Prime video. I have all three, speaking from experience.

Then bye-bye Prime videos.

I'm happy having a tablet with nfc and gps. I've installed CoPilot on my N7 and mounted it in my car, works beautifully. With my Glacier I can set up a wifi hotspot and run Pandora through my N7 as well. Yes, I could just use my Glacier for this, but that 7" screen is beautiful, I love having the larger space.

I agree with your post except for this one part. I do have the Fire running JellyBean on it, and it's very smooth. My N7 does outperform it, but not by a whole lot. Hashcode has this thing running like a champ, and once he's finished stamping out the last couple of bugs in the 3.0 kernel(I have faith this can be done), it'll be a nice little beast.

The rectangle has been around forever, patent judges seem to believe Apple owns it.
[Nexus 7 General] drpfenderson:
Ugh....Amazon just doesn't know when to stop heaping the crap higher and higher.

Kindle Fire HD sets Microsoft Bing as the default search engine.
[Nexus 7 General] kitsunisan:
Link is broken, but here's one related. http://www.webpronews.com/amazons-kindle-fire-hd-is-set-by-default-to-bing-it-2012-09

Aaaaand that's reason enough to skip this.
[Nexus 7 General] richierich1212:
You can change the search engine.
[Nexus 7 General] Windsor1959:
I'm told that none of the KF HDs have a gyroscope, accelerometer, or compass. If that's true, game over. Nexus 7 wins!
[Nexus 7 General] mike5065:
I saw many Nexus 7 reviews and references that claim the battery is Lithium Ion (most) and some that claimed Lithium Polymer (fewer). Some confusion on xda about this too.

According to Asus, it's Lithium Polymer.

http://www.asus.com/Tablet/Nexus/Nexus_7/#specifications

So I'll believe that one, which is good, because LiPo behaves more consistently in my experience.

Does anyone know which the new Kindles have?
[Nexus 7 General] Thin_Bezel:
Nexus 7 its the best tablet.pure google ui,quad core cpu,very very cheap.....i really love my nexus 7

Sent from my beautiful phone powered by the best OS ever
[Nexus 7 General] SeaFractor:
At first I thought it was a snub at Google. But at another view it may not be. Google is really working hard on promoting their Google Now, I enhanced maps and turn by turn navigation on new products. What if it was "yo Am, you don't have compass and GPS? No Google search for you!"

Jeff then says "what's left?" Snap! I Better spin it as a snub.

Because Bing rocks the search world even on Windows.... (sarcasm for the clueless)
[Nexus 7 General] Cor-master:
Yeah all and all they aren't the same products. The Kindle fires aren't tablets they are advanced ereaders. The nexus 7 is a full fledged android tablet
[Nexus 7 General] Warren_Orange:
Even though I've had to RMA my first Nexus 7 I still think its the best tablet on the market by far.

I saw a video for the Kindle Fire HD 8.9 and the interface is awful and it was lagging like crazy.

They are also ad subsidized,which wasn't mentioned at the press event.

Nexus 7 for the win.
[Nexus 7 General] drpfenderson:
Late night copy fail. Fixed.

Perhaps.

Remote user changes, massive amounts of lag, forced ads on homescreen AND lockscreen, lack of sync with Google services....all for $300? Ads all over for $300? They used to give you free computers if they had forced ads. What we have here is a very expensive turd.
[Nexus 7 General] Nospin:
That's not how it went. It's called Amazon is not making much money with each sale, so to make up for that they probably asked who would be willing to pay more to have their services set as default. Microsoft sent amazon LOADS of money, therefore Nokia Maps and Bing are being used.
[Nexus 7 General] Cor-master:
The ads thing is just sorry. It's desperation imo. Let's face it its not really possible to get a better tablet than the Nexus 7 at $200, but amazon had to one up Google, so most likely the Kindle hds are being sold at a loss and the ads are helping making up for the loss. Me I hate ads, I buy paid versions of apps I like that have them because I hate seeing them and looking at them, and they cause lag and battery life issues.

Overall it's just a big media consumption device. Will it outsell the nexus? Most likely but I got no regrets. I love this friggen tablet and until amazon at least releases a device with market access and Google apps I won't consider any single any Kindle branded device. I still fail too to see how the Kindle has more content. Can you buy Barnes and Noble books as well as Google play books on it? Maybe if I was a prime member I'd see it but as of now I don't. Amazon doesn't have a phone and me personally I'd hate to have to re buy all my apps.
[Nexus 7 General] nooomoto:
I can't fathom why anyone would pay money for a device which has the built-in "feature" of displaying ads all over the UI. Props to Amazon for exploiting morons...and rest assured many will buy it.
[Nexus 7 General] hanthesolo:
The $299 kindle beating the N7? No, there's no chance of that happening. When I choose a device, I mostly look at specs because you can always put together a port and run it if you want, and in that respect there truly is no competition, based on the early spec results. I can see the higher-res screen and $50 4G being a big lure, but frankly I don't think it's worth paying $50 more for it, especially since the specs are a decent bit weaker than the nexus.

Now the $150 kindle SD is what I think will be the true competitor to the N7. Since the nexus was the only worthwhile bargin-bin tablet (excuse the horrible metaphor) until the SD came along, there was no competition. But most people looking in that range are looking for the cheapest possible tablet that doesn't run like crap. Since the SD does that for $50 less, I think it will cut into the N7 sales far more than the HD will, especially since most people are looking at price and general performance, not specs.

Sure, it won't run Nova 3 maxed out like the N7 (actually exynos gets better lighting effects, but that's another story), but most people won't care, as long as they are getting their hands on a usable tablet for under 1/4 of the price of normal 10.1 tabs. Just my 2C on the topic.
[Nexus 7 General] TheChaoticLlama:
Okay, I'm just going to throw it out there.

I buy Nexus devices because of what they are. Pure Android. I don't want to have to root my device and unlock it's bootloader in order to have a decent un-tampered experience. I know with a Nexus devices it will always be up to date (For a couple years at least) and bloat-ware free. I don't want a locked down system where I can't do simple tasks such as changing my background and If I wanted a locked down system I would buy an Apple device. ;) Isn't this Androids main selling point? Customisation... As for specs, I don't see it as an issue. Tegra 3 is huge, even if it isn't the most powerful. It gets plenty of Tegra enhanced games giving special effects you don't see on non-tegra devices and it performs well. I'm pretty confident the Nexus 7 will last me until I get my next tablet and it will do it well, with speedy updates (not having to wait for OEMs to get their arse in order) and still pretty awesome performance. However I do find it funny the Nexus 7 is lighter and has a better for factor, having a smaller bezel and being lighter, than a Kindle which is built for reading.

This is the exact reason I prefer the Galaxy Nexus over the GS3, even if it isn't as powerful.
[Nexus 7 General] e.mote:
A dude (bournezhang) is claiming KF HDs have locked bootloader in an Aug 17 (and subsequent) post. He said he's from Shanghai, and OG KF "was made in our factory." Fact-check next Fri.

http://xdaforums.com/member.php?u=4411375

>The point, however, was not that anyone could usurp the current leaders, but that they can manufacture similar tablets, albeit at lower margins than was originally hoped from the industry.

That doesn't matter if OEMs can't put out a competitive product. The N7 and KFs are selling at zero margin or close to it (BOM costs aren't the only costs involved). This was either explicitly or tacitly stated in interviews with the respective companies' CEOs.

>hopefully from now on it'll be a race of packing better hardware to try to get some of that margin back.

This doesn't alter the platform owners' (GOOG/AMZN/AAPL/MSFT) incumbent advantage, which is not only that they can lowball the hardware, but they can also tightly couple hardware innovations to the OS, ie Apple's HW/SW integration effect. Other vendors can't do that since they don't own the platform, and can't influence platform development.

Vendors can do customization after the OS has launched, but they would always be a step behind in a fast-evolving market. Because of the short turnaround, customizations have tended to be superficial (eg skinning), and attempts at hardware differentiation (eg stylus) to date have failed with no integral OS support.

Amazon is the notable exception in the above group in that it doesn't "own" the OS. But its ace is its existing content platform that it can leverage. Other companies (HTC, Samsung) are trying to do the same, but they are starting from scratch. Samsung should have enough resources to carve out its own niche. That leaves the vendors with little software development expertise like Acer, Asus, Dell, etc on the bottom looking up.

To sum, the Apple model, of tightly coupled hardware & software and owning the content portal (app store), is superceding the old "Windows" model. Both Google and Microsoft, in coming out with their own branded devices and building out their content portals, are acceding to this new reality. Amazon is pushing the pace with lowballed hardware and killing off OEMs along the way.

It's dumb to make declarative statements in a fluid market, so I'll refrain from saying that OEMs are now dinos. But at this point, I don't see a place for the traditional role of OEMs. In other words, hardware differentation alone isn't enough.
[Nexus 7 General] josefmawas:
The only thing that impresses me is the 8.9 hd display with a ppi with 254 0: only 10 ppi lower than ipad 3
[Nexus 7 General] TheChaoticLlama:
Hmm.. This makes me think, now the KF and KFHD is available in the UK will it push Google to release their other Services such as Play Music in the UK in order to keep up with Amazon and Apple?
[Nexus 7 General] thebobp:
True, no one can force them to do anything. My point is that they haven't really had a chance to adequately respond yet.

BOM only came up to about $150. The most likely scenario is the uncommon 8GB being sold more-or-less at cost, but a hefty profit being made off the much more common $250 version, just by upgrading to 16GB.

Not sure what you mean by this. The "HW/SW integration effect" is simply being able to test+optimize it more thoroughly. Assuming google continues to prerelease the SW to the oems, they should be able to do pretty much the same thing.

There's also hope that the additional skinning delay would lead to skinning being toned down a bit. (I doubt we've reached equilibrium as to "what's the ideal amount of skinning".)

Also confused by this. Stylus seems to be working quite well for the Note; it's the consumer dearth for expensive tablets, if anything, that might cause the Note 10.1 to fail.
[Nexus 7 General] Cor-master:
So you can opt out of ads for $15 now
[Nexus 7 General] digweed4me:
Another thing is kindle silk browser going to use bing as a default search engine thats a very very big no.

even bing uses google
[Nexus 7 General] thebobp:
There are positives to this. It'll incentivize google even further to come up with a cheaper or more powerful tablet (otherwise they'd be somewhat more content to just keep getting revenue from the kindle users)
[Nexus 7 General] alan77ss:
If it gets you £20-30 off a device, i'd put up with ads on the lockscreen. How long do you actually spend on the lockscreen anyway? I'd bet most people have downloaded ad-supported free apps off the market instead of the paid version, so it's not like we're unused to adverts. In fact, google's entire revenue model is based around free services supported by advertising.

What puts me off is the likelihood they'll never upgrade beyond ics. The fire's will probably outsell the nexus tho, because, like the ipad, everyone's heard of the kindle. a lot of people haven't a clue what android is. met up with a mate yesterday, saw my nexus and said, 'oh you've bought a kindle'. What surprises me is that google hasn't done any tv advertising (in the uk at least) to try and push this tablet.
[Nexus 7 General] Cor-master:
But that's the thing it doesn't really run android. Yeah its android based but there's little left of anything that actually looks like android. It's based off ics but doesn't look much different from the original Kindle os that was based off gingerbread. Overall I'm certain the only reason they used ics to make the newest version was because ICS is naturally faster than gingerbread and makes use of gpu ui acceleration. A gingerbread based os wouldn't take advantage of the hardware. So no I wouldn't count on a jelly bean update since it doesnt run on Android anyway
[Nexus 7 General] sam3000:
They have advertised on TV in the USA.
[Nexus 7 General] KingObiWan:
In theory though, the fire hd is a piece of ****. I have heard there will be security measures making it nie impossible to root. furthermore, I feel that a quad core tegra 3 at 1.6ghz is more powerfull than a 1.5ghz duel core. But that is just an opinion. we can wait and see for benchmarks.
[Nexus 7 General] lazaro17:
Ya saw a spot during the mid season finale of breaking bad.

Sent from my Nexus 7
[Nexus 7 General] Cor-master:
The dual core is better on paper however the software will make up for it, and what's it matter when the best games give you "no results found" in the amazon app store anyway?
[Nexus 7 General] espionage724:
I block ad's via hosts file :p
[Nexus 7 General] robertc88:
I've had the KF since inception and while I still like it alot, no way I was going for the KFHD.

I am not a rooter and I've lived long enough with the KF's walled garden.

The JB OS is great and so are the Google apps on the N7. No problems so far and the best money I've ever spent on a tablet.
[Nexus 7 General] kevvyboy:
For me, I can't compare 7" to 8.9". I use my N7 mainly as an e-reader so 7 is perfecto, any larger and becomes unwieldy.

Now, if i was to want a tablet for streaming video, e-mags or even pdfs, then yeah, 8.9" might do the trick. I just think its trying to compare apples and oranges - its down to personal preference on what your primary use is.
[Nexus 7 General] marcusmarcus:
Can you update the first post of this thread. The thread title is "Nexus 7 ($249) vs Kindle Fire HD 8.9" ($299)" yet the post you put is just saying the speaks of the different Kindle fire devices, the title is deceiving. It is more of a comparison between the Kindles.

If you don't want to actually put a comparison between the Nexus 7 and the Kindle Fire HD 8.9, then at least update the thread title to something more relevant to what you put, like New Kindle Comparison.
[Nexus 7 General] e.mote:
>yet the post you put is just saying the speaks of the different Kindle fire devices, the title is deceiving

I assume those here already know N7 specs w/o having to spell them out. Anyway, the comparison is much more than just specs. I'll update OP for KF HD having no GPS.

I agree with some who said N7 vs KF7 HD is more apt. The thread started when only the 8.9 model was known, and the 7 was added after. As a 7-on-7 compare, it's a toss-up. KF HD has no GPS and can't fit into pockets, but it has better wifi and double the storage. Content-wise, it's a give-and-take as well. Google Play has more apps, but less of other content like books/music/movies. Going forward, Amazon store should get as many new app submission as Google's, given Amazon's established prominence in the Android market.

Normal users don't root, let alone do custom ROMs, so I don't see N7's "true Android" as a selling point. WRT functionality that people want, there's little the N7 can do that the KF HD can't. Not surprising, as N7 was intentionally designed to be more like the KF than different. The major part of Google I/O was devoted to touting its storefront features, and the N7 being a "seamless" experience. This was a direct copy of Apple's and Amazon's model.

Google Play isn't any more open than Amazon's or Apple's (or MS') app store. Specs matter, but ultimately you're choosing between ecosystems. Because of various lock-ins, once you're in one eco, you're more likely to stick within the same vendor's line-up.

What the KF HDs highlight is that Google dearly needs a 9 or 10" model in its Nexus line, especially with the iPad Mini rounding out Apple's line-up. 7" alone isn't enough. I expect an N9/N10 with the K release. I also expect it to be similar to KF9, ie having FullHD and at $300, with 3G an option.

Google's moves are easy to predict, since it's always a step behinds to date, and has done little else than to copy its competitors' moves.
[Nexus 7 General] thebobp:
On the contrary, this makes the "true Android" more of a selling point, as users are unwilling to try to replace the KF OS on their own.

It does, of course, depend on how much worse KF OS is seen than JB. Thing is, I don't really see any reviews comparing it favorably; bring in that "lag" word and the image is already compromised. I guess this depends on whether consumers bother to check third-party reviews, though, not something I really know.
[Nexus 7 General] e.mote:
>On the contrary, this makes the "true Android" more of a selling point, as users are unwilling to try to replace the KF OS on their own.

That hasn't been true to date, with lackluster Android tab sales throughout. The KF was the first successful (quasi)Android tab, and the N7 was well-received mainly because it was more or less modeled after the OG KF, ie well-made but first and foremost, CHEAP. XDA aside, the KF UI wasn't a source of complaint. Other things, like 8GB storage and no expansion, limited the OG KF more.

>It does, of course, depend on how much worse KF OS is seen than JB.

I doubt regular peeps know what JB even stands for, let alone care about it. If it comes down to the "smooth UI" test, Apple has already wrapped up that pitch. The present frame of argument is content, and Amazon has a better line on that than Goog. Having a 8.9" device also allows Amz a leg up. Home-use is the most popular case for consumers, where a larger tab is ideal. Goog can't compete in this area.
[Nexus 7 General] thebobp:
uhh, all you're saying here is that price point is the strongest driving factor. This says nothing about OS preference. Now that there are multiple choices for the same (cheap) price point, customers can afford to be more picky. The only question is: will they choose to be (something which is hardly predicted by old KF sales results sans competition).

They may not know what JB is, but they probably have a good idea of what lag is (when, and if, they choose to read third-party reviews). Apple may have introduced lag into the public consciousness, but that now means that others are able to capitalize on it.

Sent from my Nexus 7 "the most cost-effective iPad yet"
[Nexus 7 General] Cor-master:
So why the 8.9? Terrible comparison really. A fairer comparison would be HD7 vs N7
[Nexus 7 General] SeaFractor:
Content wise is where you'll find the "shear superiority of Google Nexus 7" :highfive:

Here's why.

On my "non-rooted" completely "stock" Nexus 7, I browsed to the Amazon App Store webpage and downloaded the App Store. I can now purchase Google Play Apps and also Amazon Apps. Frankly, most apps I purchase are through Google Play and I just camp for the "free app" of the day from Amazon. Not sure how the monetization is working there :p

From the Amazon App Store, I've added the Kindle reader. I've added the Audible for Android. I've added the Amazon MP3.

So really the only item missing is the Prime Video. Personally I don't see a huge advantage there as I've got NetFlix and Hulu + already. If you like Anime then Crunchy Roll is also there.

So let's see:

1 device that has all of the Google Play content plus significant amount of Amazon content.

or

1 device that has just Amazon content unless rooted/JB ROM installed, in which case it becomes like the device above and also looses Amazon Prime Video access.

Actually, this is fairly likely as developing for Android ICS/JB should also run on the KF7HD, but it shouldn't just be assumed.... Their free app of the day really irritates a number of vendors. Imagine developing an application you are certain that everyone "must have" and spent considerable $ and time to develop. You put it into the market and tell your creditors to get ready to be paid when, BAM it's a free app of the day. And sure enough everyone knows it's a must have and where to go to get it free, then it's not free the following day but the market for your app has been saturated with "free" customers. You then loose your home, your spouse and your kids.... :crying:

In any event, let the articles argue developer angst for me.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2011/07/amazon-appstore-game-developer-pulls-app-highlights-problems/

http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/07/04/apparatus-developer-amazon-appstore-is-a-disaster/
[Nexus 7 General] angellsl:
Tired of seeing comparison with as device not existing yet. Who knows the future?
[Nexus 7 General] e.mote:
>I just camp for the "free app" of the day from Amazon. Not sure how the monetization is working there

It's working by virtue of you using the Amazon App Store everyday. Your eyeball alone has value. Why do you think most Google services are free, yet it is still making billions of dollars annually?

>On my "non-rooted" completely "stock" Nexus 7...I can now purchase Google Play Apps and also Amazon Apps

Per above, this is a plus for Amazon, to get users of other ecosystems to be familiar with Amazon content. Familiarity is half the battle. The hardest thing is to get people to change their routines and switch to a different eco. You are already over that hump.

>1 device that has all of the Google Play content plus significant amount of Amazon content.

It doesn't stop there. The evident trend from OG KF to KF HD is increasing level of Amazon services--services that eventually will require an Amazon device for full enjoyment. Once you are hooked on the freebies, you are more receptive to an upsell.

It's the freemium model. A large portion of Internet commerce models is based upon it. Google, too.

>Their free app of the day really irritates a number of vendors.

Many things irritate devs. I don't imagine Apple's heavyhanded app curation is much loved, either. There is no perfect platform. But the reality is that devs go where the money is. On Android, Amazon has established itself as a major online portal, rivaling Google's. Unless Google can again catch up, Google Play itself is in danger of being eclipsed.

>Tired of seeing comparison with as device not existing yet.

KF HD 7 is out on Friday. Reviews for it are out today.
[Nexus 7 General] Metallice:
Benchmarks for the 4470 have been out for a while. The Tegra 3's 12 core GPU gets beat badly by the 4470's dual core GPU, while the Tegra 3's CPU beats the 4470. Not surprising considering they are both A9 cores and 4 > 2.

But gaming support means a lot too, so overall I'd say the GPU comparison ends up being closer than benchmarks suggest.

Oh and the Tegra 3 crushes the 4460 in the KF HD 7 on all fronts.
[Nexus 7 General] Manatee Burger:
For me the Nexus 7 is better for what I'm using it for.

The Kindle Fire HD is definitely no joke though. Thoroughly impressed with Amazon's latest. Not sure what all the hate about it in this thread is about. Yes, it's not running stock Android, but I think it still looks pretty nice. If my folks were looking for tablet I'd probably recommend the kindle fire to them, everything is much more user friendly in my opinion. Really cool to see all of these great and powerful Android devices coming out lately, looking forward to what the rest of the year has in store.

Also, the 8.9" fire has a beautiful screen.