yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 7 General] b4silver:
Compared to the seven inch one I think that nexus still is at the top. Quad core is a bumb. So is actual android. Then amazon app store has some ground but nothing close to what Google play has. Most is same except quad core compared between the two.

Galaxy s3

Nexus 7

Hp touchpad
[Nexus 7 General] deaffob:
I probably won't buy Kindle HD because I have my N7. But you have a few specs wrong.

1. It does have GPS

2. It does have bluetooth.

You are saying that OMAP4 is outdated but you have to remember that more cores or higher clocks don't mean much in the real world usages. Currently, the new iPad has the smoothest performance because of its GPU. iPad is still using dual core with 1Ghz CPUs but Apple knew that more CPU power is pointless so they went with more GPU power.

Check Kindle HD's GPU along with 1.8Ghz dual core. Amazon already said that their processor outperforms Tegra 3.

You have to realize that quad core processors like Tegra 3 and Exynos 4(GS3) are crushed by dual cores like Apple's A5X and Snapdragon S4.
[Nexus 7 General] thebobp:
On the other hand, the original Kindle Fire has significant amounts of deving, which even includes CM10. As I said, a large part of it has to do with the popularity (and unfortunately, HTC has been on the sharp end of that stick).

To be absolutely safe, you should, sure, wait to see what dev interest there is. But I think it a reasonable bet (short of some idiotic unbreakable bootloader) that the Kindle HD will get jellybean.
[Nexus 7 General] najaboy:
It also includes ebook lending for Prime members. In terms of content consumption, the KF has a leg up on the 7. Both tablets target different segments of the market, Although the same price point is going to lead to some cannibalization of market share.
[Nexus 7 General] Cor-master:
I just don't but into the whole kindle thing. Put the play store on it and I might. But even if it out performs the tegra 3 why does it matter if every game you search for in the amazon app store gives you "no results found"?

Overall competition is good for the industry and Google never tries to be the best, they just want hardware that'll run their newest android version to their liking. So I really don't care about the kindle regardless, and I'd definitely take a galaxy nexus over a one x or galaxy s3 any day of the week. I got my nexus and couldn't find a reason to root it, never been able to say that with any device so really nothing amazon could of showed off today would make me regret my decision.
[Nexus 7 General] ncvikingx97:
As a former kindlw fire owner, I can tell you that it will be super hackable. I know that the kindle fire has jellybean, miui, ICS, and GB, all out of the gate quite fast. Does the 4470 actually beat out tegra 3? What about the 7 inch model
[Nexus 7 General] Cor-master:
I still wanna know what version of android the new Kindle os is based off of

---------- Post added at 08:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 PM ----------

Well at the end of the day to each their own. I love my Nexus, some would rather use the Kindle. Whatever you need it for. Just me personally I think it only outsells everything else because of the brand name. Imo if you look at it as an android tablet it sucks. Look at it as an ereader, well its epic.
[Nexus 7 General] deaffob:
http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/06/amazon-confirms-kindle-fire-hd-models-use-android-4-0/
[Nexus 7 General] atticusmas:
BTW, boot loader will be locked as hell seeing as they have ads on their devices
[Nexus 7 General] ncvikingx97:
Honestly a different launched should and most likely will fix the need to have non skinned android on there .
[Nexus 7 General] NexusDro:
The S4 uses a more advanced architecture similar to the A15. Tegra 3, A5, OMAP 4470 and and Exynos have the older A9 architecture. In terms of raw CPU performance S4 should beat the others, the others should be more or less the same per core. Therefore, the quad core tegra have an advantage over the other dual core A9s.
[Nexus 7 General] Cor-master:
Watching the hands on video, honestly if you only care about media go for it. It does seem like if it might edge the nexus 7 in that aspect. But if you want a pure tablet that you can use as a portable pc, then it's a bad buy. Also the ui is terrible imo, it's like your in the Amazon app store all the time and there is no way to get to your home screen.
[Nexus 7 General] alan77ss:
Yes, i could make the tea ;) As i said, i'm not criticisng the cyanogen devs or any rom creators - they do a great job. But it's a fact that these developments take time - what's stable for one person, may not be for others. For me it's question of why risk going for a custom rommed tablet that'll take who knows how long to get right, when you've got a ready made solution in the nexus 7 already there? $20-30 don't seem worth it.
[Nexus 7 General] aalupatti:
fire 8.9 vs fire 7 vs nexus 7

240 mm x 164 mm x 8.8 mm vs 567grams vs

193 mm x 137 mm x 10.3 mmx 395 grams vs

198.5 x 120 x 10.5 mm x 340 g

So between n7 and fire 7 . Not much difference

Price better for fire 7 due to 50$ less and free prime video minus 25$ playstore coupon

However the dev support will always be better
[Nexus 7 General] pxlitup:
Prime is no joke, and $299 is a good price for an 8.9 display with solid build quality.

I am both tempted and underwhelmed.
[Nexus 7 General] Cor-master:
I think it's safe to say that the fires would be better than the 7 if they had aosp android on them. Unless you care about GPS, which I don't use my tablet for one, but it's still neat having it so you can bring up Google maps for your location on the fly and having Google now tell me I'm "8 minutes from home" when I'm playing with my tablet on break at work.

I guess overall the hardware is better though, just depends what you want. And I dunno if I'd look for the nexus to get any cheaper any time soon, Amazon is an online retail company, they have a lot more to subsidize into the cost than a search company
[Nexus 7 General] e.mote:
>Price better for fire 7 due to 50$ less

I think a more apt comparison is N7 16GB vs KF7 32GB (or N7 8GB vs KF7 16GB) for same price.

For regular peeps, Amazon Appstore + Prime > Google Play. KF HD wins. Not to mention the 8.9 version w/ FullHD.

For XDA peeps, the big question is whether KF HD can do custom ROMs. If BL is locked as Nook Tab, then no dev love. Then again, may be Adam Outler & Co can put their NT expertise to good use.

We'll know when 7" hits next Friday, which should also answer for 8.9" version come Nov 20.
[Nexus 7 General] thedauntlessone:
On the topic of bootloader, this is pure speculation, but the fact that all devices only have ad subsidized variants, it would be wise for Amazon to lock bootloader to not piss off advertisers.

If everyone can come on XDA, unlock bootloader and pop in the latest AOSP JB rom, then what of the Amazon ecosystem and advertisements which paid for the device?

If bootloader is unlocked though, Amazon would be one of the coolest companies with their device (aside from Google devices)
[Nexus 7 General] brizey:
I think you guys are wrong that there will be a lot of development for the new kindles. The original KF had decent of development because it was a decent step up from the color nook for cheapo tablets. The development has dried up considerably since the N7 came out. Several of the devs have faded away from the jump to ICS and even more faded with the jump to JB. Now look at the Galaxy Nexus, which was released at about the same time as the fire. Still has as much development as the N7, actually probably more.

Look at kernel development. The KF has one real kernel by Hashcode and one fork by intersectRaven that has not been touched since July. The N7 has morphic, motely, faux, franco, glados and poitee that I can think of off the top of my head, plus Clemsyn's motley fork. Plus I think AOKP, CM, and bamf all have modified kernels.

The KF was only attractive from a development point of view because the N7 did not exist.

They are going to do well in the marketplace, don't get me wrong, but I just don't see a bunch of devs going out and buying one.
[Nexus 7 General] pxlitup:
I don't know much about this sort of thing, so maybe someone here can make an educated guess.

Does multiple Fire resolutions mean that the Amazon Instant Video app should work on most Android tablets now?

If the iPad mini materializes, iOS will be competing for the low-end against the Nexus 7 and the Fire. At that point, it would be a double standard, rather than a business strategy, for Amazon to continue withholding Prime streaming as a Fire exclusive. Maybe they'll reconsider and port it over for us pretty soon if it's close enough already.

In other words, does this suggest that it's close enough already?
[Nexus 7 General] thedauntlessone:
There's no reason to do that because Kindle Fire and other Amazon services are only available in the US.
[Nexus 7 General] thebobp:
You're pretty much saying that development is slowing down on the KF because it's old. That happens to every device, especially those, as you correctly point out, for which a newer and shiner competitor has come out.

In this case, however, the KF HD is the newer and shinier competitor.

Yes, the GN continues gets a development boost by virtue of being a Nexus (and of continuing to get official updates) but that does not mean that newer devices simply won't get development at all.
[Nexus 7 General] e.mote:
>the fact that all devices only have ad subsidized variants, it would be wise for Amazon to lock bootloader to not piss off advertisers.

>If everyone can come on XDA, unlock bootloader and pop in the latest AOSP JB rom

Not everybody is a geek, and not every tablet user is on (or will come to) XDA. We peeps here are a tiny fraction.

I don't see ads being a strong argument to lock, since going custom ROM would mean forgoing some or all of Amazon's amenities, and is a tough choice even if it were possible.

A better reason to lock is for HD video, as Netflix HD requires a locked BL, per the rationale offered by B&N in locking the Nook Tab. Recall that B&N bragged about having Netflix HD on Nook, while OG KF only had SD. Anyway, we'll know in a week.
[Nexus 7 General] espionage724:
Kindle has no NFC, and isn't backed by Google, lacks quad-core processor, and is generally more locked-down. Those are reasons enough for me to keep liking my Nexus 7 :)
[Nexus 7 General] Cor-master:
Hey emote there is this button called "quote" why not use that instead of > for quotes? Just sayin ;)
[Nexus 7 General] pxlitup:
I'm in the US, and AFAIK the old Amazon Instant Video apk was not compatible with most devices. For one thing, it did not scale to different resolutions.

There were other problems, like not being able to log in, but if the new app is one-size-fits-all that could mean that we're getting closer to Android support.
[Nexus 7 General] Cor-master:
I doubt you'll see prime on any other device than a kindle branded one. Imo i think the only reason you can get the amazon app store on every device was so Amazon could beef up their app store for the kindle fire. Honestly I think it was always intended for their tablets
[Nexus 7 General] tjpallares:
Just because the nexus 7 has a quad core, doesn't mean its better. There's some benchmarks that showed the omap 4470 matching up with the tegra 3. But yes the kindle fire HD is more locked down, I agree with that.
[Nexus 7 General] brizey:
I was more saying that the N7 already has about 5 times the development that the KF ever did, and that much of the development it did have was only because the N7 did not exist. If there was a predecessor to the N7 with similar specs released last summer, there is no way the KF released last fall would have got much dev attention.

The nexus phones always have the most development other than a few exceptions driven by carrier concerns (e.g the Thunderbolt since it was the first LTE phone). With no carrier, anyone and everyone that is an Android dork finds the N7 accessible. It is also a global product.

If the BL is open (doubtful) or gets cracked (maybe somewhat likely...but look at the nook tablet), there will of course be some development, but nothing like there is for the N7.

By the way, because of all of this development focus, the N7 is pacing the SGIII in AnTuTu (yeah yeah, benchmarks). So the even the stock advantage may not hold up.
[Nexus 7 General] SeaFractor:
7" model may have front camera, but no microphone? WTF? VoIP is going to be oddly silent. 8.9" is the only microphone equipped model.

UPDATE: Microphone is present. If you go to the Amazon website, the three devices are listed with their full specifications per device. I'd recommend that compared to the inaccurate information that is floating around.

In a fair comparison of 7" to 7" the only obvious advantage is 16GB at the base price. Google could discount and offer their 16GB model for the same price and then discount the 8GB to quash the original Fire at $159.

Lack of a GPS also hampers the new Google Maps technologies. Even an AOSP based ROM will be hampered in that respect or the cool voice commands in Google Now.

Nexus is still tops in my book. Besides I predict a Nexus refresh soon to be a great quash to the 8.9 Fire HD.

UPDATE : Anyone noticed that all three models (yep, even the expensive 4G model) "include' SPECIAL OFFERS? That means Advertising abounds.

Also, the external speakers are of little value to me. When I'm on the train or airplane, you can bet that I'll be using headphones. Home use is about the only time and why oh why would I watch a movie at home with a large screen HD and a Roku box that get's all the video goodies?

Don't get me wrong.... If the Nexus 7 didn't exist, the new Fire HD 7" would be the best tab no question.
[Nexus 7 General] pxlitup:
Are you aware that Amazon launched an app for the iPad last month?

[YOUTUBE]qlERXRLcUo8[/YOUTUBE]

The only reason to withhold this as a Fire and iOS exclusive is if Amazon doesn't recognize Apple as a competitor in the same space, meaning lower priced tablets. If the iPad mini ever comes to be, and it's priced competitively, that device would be as much of a threat to Fire sales as any Android device. So why wouldn't Amazon reconsider its stance on streaming to Android?

Prime streaming is a pretty big deal, and once the iPad mini hits we'll be the only Mexican in this standoff who doesn't have it.
[Nexus 7 General] thebobp:
I find your stat methodology highly questionable, and in any case it only takes one rom/kernel to bring jellybean to the KF, solving the lag issues. I don't think anyone was claiming the new KF would be a hotbed of development, because frankly we don't know.

(To clarify: we can only make weak and very vague guesses based on the popularity-development correlation.)

Microphone is listed on the stat page.
[Nexus 7 General] espionage724:
More cores = more multitasking generally, plus I would imagine with a properly multithreaded app, it would benefit from more cores, then less cores at faster speeds.
[Nexus 7 General] SeaFractor:
Actually, I don't think you'll have to wait too much longer. Amazon is far more concerned about the sale/rent of content than hardware sales. Granted it'll be delayed so that the feature is primarily on the Amazon tabs at launch, but just like the Amazon App Store and MP3 Cloud Player and their other apps, you'll see this in time.

Easy enough for their dev's to port their app from their forked ICS to standard ICS or Jelly Belly (I mean Bean).

---------- Post added at 08:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 PM ----------

Yet a number of the reviewers that worked the device for an hour at launch did mention that the GUI was significantly smoother on the Nexus 7. Either the Jelly Bean/Project Butter code improvements or possibly the better utilization of 4 cores in Jelly Bean make the difference.

A Tegra 3 tested in ICS may not be able to perform to it's capacity due to limitations of the OS. Once Jelly Bean AOSP is ported to the Amazon Kindle Fire HD, then we can have a true apples to apples comparison and see if that statement that it's faster than the Nexus 7 truely holds water.

Windows 98 didn't seem to perform faster on my Quad Core Q6600 for example, but with XP or WIndows 7 it really opened up :D
[Nexus 7 General] Pete7ate:
What about all the Android devices, tablets, etc...
[Nexus 7 General] tjpallares:
www.anandtech.com/show/6158/the-archos-101-xs-review/3

This shows how well the omap 4470 does match up with the tegra 3. Now with the higher Res screen and the added weight of amazon's skin, and the nexus 7 having jelly bean, the nexus 7 probably is more responsive. However, more cores do not mean its better.
[Nexus 7 General] SeaFractor:
Amazon fails on GPS Navigation.

There is one thing I can do, buttery smooth, that will just completely fail on the 8.9 HD.

Turn-by-turn based Navigation.

Pretty big deal for those that want a better navigation option than a fixed function GPS.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-57484949-48/transform-your-nexus-7-into-a-car-tech-powerhouse/
[Nexus 7 General] e.mote:
>Amazon fails on GPS Navigation

Yes, here's a good CNet comparison piece about that.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19736_...ire-hd-vs-nexus-7-which-one-is-right-for-you/

I'll also add that, per the pics below, the N7 is a much more portable device, by virtue of it being able to fit into more jacket/cargo pants pocket than the KF7.

There are trade-offs. KF7 HD has better wifi (MIMO antenna, dual-band) that allows it to function better in marginal areas. It's a give-and-take. But generally, the N7 is a better traveling companion than the KF7 HD. The latter is better for home use (free Prime, HDMI, etc).

Anyway, the one-upmanship was expected, after the N7 one-upped the OG KF. One hopes that Goog continues the trend, and have a stronger Nexus model next year.

The consumer is the winner. But there are losers, which are all of the Android OEMs. Only Amazon & Google, with established content platforms to offset the lossleading hardware sales, can do this. Every other vendor is left out in the cold. This bodes poorly for the overall Android ecosystem which have relied on diversity. Instead, we are drifting toward Apple's model, of one (or two) dominant vendor with a strong content store. IMO, that's not a good thing.
[Nexus 7 General] thebobp:
The N7 was not a loss-leader, however; the Kai platform was designed to still be profitable at $200. (Otherwise, Acer wouldn't be releasing a similar one shortly.) The margins are eroded, to be sure, but I wouldn't call that being "left out in the cold". Plus, with the lack of demand for more expensive tablets, there was really no other way this could have transpired.
[Nexus 7 General] e.mote:
>The N7 was not a loss-leader...Otherwise, Acer wouldn't be releasing a similar one shortly.

Acer Iconia A110 won't be competitive, per its specs below. Neither can the Lenovo A2109 compete against the KF 8.9 HD. I don't see anything that can compete against N7 or KF HDs (except iPad Mini of course).

>Plus, with the lack of demand for more expensive tablets, there was really no other way this could have transpired.

Yes, it's a problem that none of the mobile OS'es have resolved, the lack of compelling reasons for people to buy other than to run apps or consume content, which the vendors don't own. There's no meaningful way to differentiate the hardware. Stylus/digitizer/KB docks have been and are being tried.

Since the death spiral can't go on forever, then something will have to give. The bet is that the first to cry uncle would be the Android OEMs, since they can't wait around until the OS grows up.

Not that things will be much better on the Windows side. It's a tough road any which way.
[Nexus 7 General] thebobp:
I suspect the A110 was delayed too long to be competitive, yes. Its best bet is that it runs jellybean and is portrayed as a storage and HDMI-friendly version of the N7, as opposed to the "laggy" KF HD.

The point, however, was not that anyone could usurp the current leaders, but that they can manufacture similar tablets, albeit at lower margins than was originally hoped from the industry. The "race to the bottom" seems to have stopped at the sweet spot of $200, so it's not an infinite downward spiral, and hopefully from now on it'll be a race of packing better hardware to try to get some of that margin back.

Now, the competitors haven't really had a chance to respond to these developments (hence, for now, they may seem "unbeatable"); it's really the next round of designs that'll reflect the new dynamic.

As you say, there is sure to be fierce competition in any direction. There is also more room to differentiate in android, however (though that leads to the skins that many of us hate), so it seems hard to believe that the oems would give it up in favor of windows.
[Nexus 7 General] kieso:
I'm so sick of these stupid vs threads! There's no tegra in it so it sux.
[Nexus 7 General] demandarin:
will these vs. threads ever end? another one for N7 to knockout/TKO

Exactly, except I'd never exchange my nexus 7 for this. Specs sound nice, must admit. But even with those bump in specs, reviewers still find the nexus 7 to be the better, faster, more fluid UI having device.

People saying hardware trump N7. Well N7 s/w trumps this new device by a long shot. It might never upgrade its OS to jellybean..lol. plus ill still take tegra3 optimized stuff. My N7 works to well to be phased by this tablet. I'm truly satisfied with my N7 and my new 32gb Galaxy Note 10.1(which hardware wise, aside from resolution, trumps new Amazon tablet..lol). Ill take the pure Android experience(Nexus) running JB anyday over amazon tablet. I hate how it doesn't even support marketplace(true Android experience) out the box.

Now this is something I might consider getting my significant other. Is this thing already released? I would get the 8.9HD one for her. I'm curious as to this size form factor as i heard its the perfect size(which is said about 7in. Also). The HD 1080p screen sounds nice. Ill need to research more on its specs and what this device actually capable of. Would make a nice surprise Bday gift for my GF if this thing is out already.

Bottom line is, regardless of new Amazon specs, Nexus 7 trumps it overall. Because it'll never have the developer support like we have here on Nexus 7. Developement is sick on Nexus 7 rigght now. Don't get me wrong, Amazon came hard with this one. Bit for me, not enough to make me go like oh I gotta have it. Especially since I already own a great performing Nexus 7.

I have an ipad1, Nexus 7, & new 32gb Galaxy Note 10.1. Plus I plan on checking out MS surface(specially if its rumored $199 price tag)or windows based tabs once they release. Too many tablets..lol. Gf and others think I have too many already. Ahh..the joys of new technology, I love it though.

P.s. it is a great deal if you want an fake android experience having FHD screen ;)

What's battery life like? Nexus 7 gets great battery life. This will be a huge factor asits focus is portability.

Now back to reading the rest of this thread. Only on page 3. E.mote and his vs. threads..lmfao you should know Nexus 7 will always be seen as better since its a Nexus device. Remwber the saying, the hardware is only as good as the software its running. Nexus 7 has this downpacked. Now if new Amazon HD tab has unlocked bootloader and gets some kind of dev. Scene(which I doubt since all major devs. Flocked here to nexus 7) it might make a nice lil device. But stock heavily skinned Amazon tab with no visible traces of Android blows. Reviews showing it to be sluggish. Best way is to find out in person though. I am sorta impressed with its specs, but more impressed still with how well the N7 has turned out.
[Nexus 7 General] tjpallares:
Yeah I saw the reviews on YouTube and some articles/blogs. However, I heard they only had like 3 of the 8.9" KF HD and were not allowed to even touch them. The 7" ones had a 4460 omap I believe. Haha but I agree, the nexus 7 probably is smoother because of jelly bean.