yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HD2 Android SD Development] michael-jb:
All native sd builds are lagging for me, iv got 2 cards class 2 and 4 which i have tried and both are really slow, the old sd works much faster. by comparison the old method will load an app between 5 seconds and 20 seconds, where as native sd builds will take between 30 seconds and 5 Minutes! which obviously is no good for daily use.

Both cards had their fat32 and ext4 partitions created in gparted and MiB aligned.

Has anyone got any more suggestions? im pretty sure both cards can't be broken as the old sd method works fine.

I often get 'force close' messages on native sd builds and occasional 'no sim' messages.
[HD2 Android SD Development] TruePlaya:
There must be something wrong with your NativeSD setup. My HD2 is performing so much better with NativeSD, did not have the force close since moving to NativeSD.Running on Samsung Class10 card now but also tested with SanDisk Class4 - still much better than old SD method.

Maybe you can try to change the way you partition cards with gparted. I did format fat32 first and then created 2GB of EXT4 at end of card. Alignment is MiB (or whatever default selection was). Im sure there must be a fix to get your NativeSD flying!
[HD2 Android SD Development] gade12:
I have several big question with this method:

- NativeSD use data nand partition? or when i install rom, for example in 1gb ext4 partition, this 1gb is used to instal system, data, cache...?

(IDEA for before question: only one android rom in phone, fat partition, ext partition only for system's, all nand for data(with option of apps/dalvik to sd-ext or second sd-ext))

- Ok, now we have one android nand rom that use sd-ext to apps, dalvik, system apps, framework (sense 3.5). SD have fat+1gb sd-ext. And we install one rom nativeSD. where this nativeSD rom is installed? in sd-ext with system apps, framework...or it install in second sd-ext.

(i think it install in firt sd-ext, so can i make second sd-ext like: fat,sd-ext1,sd-ext2; and install nativseSD roms to sd-ext2?? )
[HD2 Android SD Development] KyJelly69:
I installed PA on nand first then installed it on sd-ext so i could get a comparison. i use link2sd on the nand PA to install apps to sd-ext. When i boot to the sd-ext PA I figured the apps would be there from the other install but they are not. is this about a system PATH or sym linking or something? it seems if I were to install every app on each system that would fill up my sd-ext pretty fast. what needs to be done for all android installs (nand and nativesd) to be shareable?
[HD2 Android SD Development] Magic2010:
That's one of the next steps to the NativeSd method, for now you have to install the apps in every rom you install.

"How is the NativeSD ROM work?"

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=31110734&postcount=3
[HD2 Android SD Development] KyJelly69:
antutu benchmark question

are these assumptions correct for the readings in antutu?

Nativesd:

database io = ext4 part

sdcard = fat32

NAND:

database io = nand

sdcard = fat32

androbench has a setting to specify between /data and /sdcard this seems clearer

EDIT:

Patriot 16GB class 10

3KB cache

Androbench Results (ran multiple times highest reading kept)

SDExt4:

read: 17.9

write: 1.4 (I did have an anomalous result of around 7.1 on one test)

random read: 3.9

random write: 0.34

SDfat32:

read: 17.6

write: 5.5

random read: 3.9

random write: 0.8

nand:

read: 4.5

write: 2.6

random read: 5

random write: 3.2

ok great, it's nice to have some numbers to confirm all of this for myself and my sd card. but, it seems that for some reason write/random write speed suffers greatly between fat32 and ext4 when the theories suggest it should be faster.
[HD2 Android SD Development] NYLimited:
Thanks for the benchmarks!

Why do you say the theories suggest it should be faster? In fact, the theory questions that assumption! Please read

this

and see what I mean.. ^_^

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[HD2 Android SD Development] gade12:
So NativeSD dont use nand for nothing and it install roms only in the first sd-ext using it for system+data...right?
[HD2 Android SD Development] DarkLG:
Anyone have a more detailed guide for settings this up with wp7?
[HD2 Android SD Development] wis1152:
See stickies:)
[HD2 Android SD Development] KyJelly69:
UPDATE:

These are the macro test results from androbench. these tests are closer to real user experience, and results are in msecs.

SDext4:

Browser: 5544

Market: 2634

Camera: 2272

Camcorder: 3170

SDfat32:

Browser: 3000

Market: 1275

Camera: 1320

Camcorder: 2515

NAND:

Browser: 565

Market: 1490

Camera: 1615

Camcorder: 4055

now i'm even more confused. Browser is fastest on nand, but market, camera, and camcorder is fastest on fat32.

Is there any way to install android on a fat32 partition? :)
[HD2 Android SD Development] Magic2010:
NativeSD installs everything in Ext4.

In NAND you can have another diferent ROM, they work without any interference.
[HD2 Android SD Development] poyensa:
do you refer to old SD roms? portadroid? they are in sd-fat32 ...
[HD2 Android SD Development] KyJelly69:
interesting...aren't there complaints about sluggishness on these? I'm assuming that only 1 partition is needed in fat32 for these? and all software is installed on "internal" as it appears to android? and if there is only 1 partition then there would be no "sdcard"? all this would be fine since we can tell android to install all apps internally by default.

it looks like portadroid does support JB right now. can these boot normally like nativesd? ie not requiring WM. can nativesd support ram boot? wouldn't running it from ram be best anyway? then leave the sdcard as 1 fat32 partition.
[HD2 Android SD Development] Magic2010:
Yes it's a bit "slower".

But I think you are messing the things a bit.

SDRoms use fat32 only to work, NAND remains untouched.

NativeSD Roms use only Ext4 partition, NAND and fat32 remains untouched (it only creates a few forlders in fat32)

Nativesd doesn't need WM or a Nand Android Rom to boot, it can run by itself, just need an Ext4 partition.
[HD2 Android SD Development] giovanne:
NativeSD itself only use the ext4 partition, yes.

But - I think - the installed apps maybe create data etc. on fat32 and maybe this is important when the apps are installed in different ROMS (and maybe important for backup/restore)...
[HD2 Android SD Development] Xylograph:
I have no idea why some of you are almost scientifically trying to prove with all kinds of benchmarks that NativeSD is slower compared to nand or even 'the old SD' method for that matter...

There is a difference between these benchmark numbers and using this stuff for real.. You should really try an 'old' sd rom (no ram builds) for that matter and experience that instead..

Slow screen response when you wake up the phone with the power key, high battery consumption and an overall sluggy system feeling was my experience with it, while NativeSD runs just as well as NAND on the same sd-card.. hence I haven't used my NAND anymore since the release of NativeSD..

As stated in the first couple of posts.. performance (and experience) may differ based on the quality of your card...
[HD2 Android SD Development] timmymarsh:
Exactly, your class rating doesn't automatically assume it will run any faster, with memory you get what you pay for, don't just buy the cheapest non brand name because it is bigger and supposedly "faster" then a good quality make with a smaller rating. I use transcend 8g class 6 (that came with the hd2) and its sweet.

Just remember the amount of processes you have running in background, this is a speed and battery killer.

sent from my nativeSD JB HD2
[HD2 Android SD Development] michael-jb:
This is what i believe my problem is (as iv tried everything else) the class2 card that came with the phone, and a seperately purchased class4 card both run nativesd terrible for me, but 'old sd' method works fine.

I think we need to start compiling data (size, brand, class, purchase location) on which cards work and which dont, as i really want these speed boosts everyone is raving about :fingers-crossed:

So ill add to the bad cards list:

2GB Sandisk Class2 (shipped with hd2)

4GB Kingston Class4 from amazon.co.uk
[HD2 Android SD Development] timmymarsh:
Off topic I know, but yours was shipped with a 2gb? Man, I had a 8gbclass 6! Anyway, I digress......

sent from my nativeSD JB HD2
[HD2 Android SD Development] poyensa:
i have never used any other OS in the nand of my HD2 except old good WM, so I cannot compare nand roms. But had many old SD roms and really it can't be compared to nativeSD, is really another 'league'. The only I still keep in my SD-fat32 partition is cm7barebone superRam. Actually aokp-b3, miuiJB & boxmax sense in my SDext4. I really need a bigger SD ...

edit: and the SD is definitive. First tried with a 1yr old 8gb but the speed was unexisting. Then i changed to my wife's new 4gb SD (sandisk class4) shipped with her HTC explorer, and the resilts are incredible better
[HD2 Android SD Development] michael-jb:
So not fair :crying:

but i thought all EU models shipped with 2GB and american models with 16GB, guess not.
[HD2 Android SD Development] adell_:
I think nobody tries to prove that but for some users NativeSD ROM is slower. It would be nice if we have a list of good SD card sizes/classes/brands.

---------- Post added at 02:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:57 AM ----------

Mine came with SanDisk 8 GB class 2.
[HD2 Android SD Development] Szczepanik:
HTC Leo: HD2HD2 General Step by Step:: How To Set up WP7 and Android with NATIVESD / EXT4

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1880905&highlight=nativesd

Cheers

Tom
[HD2 Android SD Development] KyJelly69:
I understand all that. what I'm saying is, from an i/o perspective, which is basically how fast an app/game will load, that random read is fastest on nand and fat32 as it compares on my setup. sequential reads are almost non-existant unless you are watching video or listening to music. sequential write is no good unless i'm recording lots of video. and random write, bah, who cares, most written things that aren't video/sequential are small anyway. so it boils down to random read and like i said before it's fastest on my phone and sdcard from nand and fat32.

the best evidence is the macro test for "real world" use. yes, i could open a bunch of apps and time them but it would be tedious and inaccurate. benchmarks gives scientifically repeatable results.

speed comparisons of the old sdroms is not an apples to apples comparison. they run over WM and therefore are intrinsically hindered. the phone "runs" things fast, we all know that. it doesn't matter where the apps are stores, once in memory it's all the same unless hindered by other running apps/OSes/etc. but it's the loading of apps that is the controversy. unless we can boot from fat32 partitions like we can from ext4 with nativesd then we are still missing a piece of the puzzle.

right now, the only consistently inarguable use for nativesd is for people who have too many bad blocks on their nand or want to keep WM. if you don't agree, fine. if you have a "magic" sdcard that obviously outshines your old setup, good for you, your last setup was probably messed up anyway. I can repeat those test over and over, subjectivity might as well be magic. there are too many variables to suggest this as a "faster" way to run android unless you have no other choice or want to keep WM.

I went into this hoping it was all true, i wanted it to be, but i have more questions and concerns now than before. like why is write speed so much slower on ext4 than fat32 for me? go figure. oh, and mine came with a Sandisk 16GB class 2
[HD2 Android SD Development] Xylograph:
So what you read on paper is what you take for granted in real life?

Everybody can run these old sd-roms directly from Magldr with no intervention from another os whatsoever.. it still sucks compared to NativeSD with a descend sd card..

Maybe we can go talk about nilfs2 again ? just for the fun of it...

I really don't understand what you are implying here.. you are talking about our setup being messed up, but what about your sd-card ??

Besides that.. if fat32 would be any good to run android roms why wouldn't phone manufacturers thought about that before ?? I know for a fact some of them do use EXT4 though...

How about users who like to test things out (jellybean for example) but rather have their godly ICS, GB rom on nand ??

Anyway, with such an 'arogant' way of saying: 'he guys.. great stuff you've made available again for us HD2 users.. another leap forward'

I wish you good luck with your shiny nand and fat32 partition...
[HD2 Android SD Development] NYLimited:
Ouch! :eek:

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[HD2 Android SD Development] Magic2010:
No one here is saying that you have to use NativeSd method, you tried it, you didn´t liked it.. we can live with that.

Over here in my country wise man says: "Don't like it? Don't eat it" as simple as that.

Don't take me wrong, but this thread is going again to the "Milfs" twilight zone....
[HD2 Android SD Development] KyJelly69:
my humblest apologies. i'm sorry to all the xylograph, magic2012, devs and anyone offended by my comments. The amazing things that are done here are a pillar of my existence. i assure you i meant kn disrespect, and never thought i was being arrogant. reading back on what i posted earlier, my thoughts were acute, and moreover, i agree it's a bit harsh. thank you guys for all that you've done, i sorry. it seems i have an issue communicating over text.

that said

i ran a few more tests on a freshly installed class 2 card that came with it. and the results from ext4 to fat32 are close.

read 5-6

write 1.5-2

randon read 1.2 - 1.5

random write 0.2 - 0.4

i wish that the write and random write speeds were better overall

i've ead a bunch of the nilfs topics and it's probably not the way either.

is journaling off?
[HD2 Android SD Development] KyJelly69:
you know what, just ignore me. looking at the numbers again i can total see the benefit of running android off nativesd and the apps off the fat32. cheers
[HD2 Android SD Development] a3r0n1:
Tuppence worth

Just thought I’d add my tuppence worth.

Originally I had a Kingston 16gb class 4 card that I setup for nativeSD....it ran like crap! (Slow-mo)

(Beware of cheap cards) My benchmarks http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=31560570#post31560570

Upgraded to a genuine card (Samsung 32gb class 10) and NativeSD is flying along.

I have 3 roms installed all the apps/games I want, and plenty of space left over.

The pluses for me are: I now have 4gb of internal memory and no longer have to mess around with scripts/apps trying to conserve space, can avoid the bad blocks I have, and jump easily between roms.

Its fast and personally preferable to any previous version of rom installation.

All credit to the developers/contributors that have devoted their time/skills to making it possible.

Well done guys.....keep up the great work its much appreciated.
[HD2 Android SD Development] ric69:
Hi all, I think I have a problem,

I have 2 Xylo's roms on nativesd + 1 Typhoon in nand (aprox 1Go free on 2GOExt4)

Since I tried Booxmax, Ext4 is full so I wanted to delete booxmax's rom with NativeSdMBV6 but my memory is still full after :o I win only 100mb in fact, is it possible NativesdMB does not delete some files ?

Sorry if there is already an answer, I did not find anything with "search" ^^
[HD2 Android SD Development] datagr:
From which rom did you delete boxmax rom?
[HD2 Android SD Development] ric69:
Not from Boxmax but from nand , that's the problem.?
[HD2 Android SD Development] gazzacbr:
I just had clean install of same nand and native sd with class 6 32gb and there was no difference in speed as far as i could tell. But.... nand ran out of memory even before i got all my "essential " apps on.

Bottom line is, back to wm6 in nand and android on fast 2gb ext4 sd. Best of both worlds (well, unless TomTom can run in android, i live in hope...)

Sent from my HD2 using the power of ICS
[HD2 Android SD Development] onlinegames:
Denseye,

How on earth did you get a score of 3363?!?!? The best I have ever achieved so far is 2600 on Xylo's AOKP v3 build.

Not only is your score much higher than mine in almost every area except for the 2D and 3D graphics. I don't understand how your CPU reads 1190 MHz when I get only 993 MHz despite overclocking to 1190 MHz. "Performance" settings shows the CPU to be running at 1190 MHz but AnTuTu benchmark always shows only 993 MHz.

Another help I wanted was - In the NAND ROM, where did you find eth0 which you replaced with wlan0?
[HD2 Android SD Development] spetrie:
Tom Tom due to be released this month for Android:)
[HD2 Android SD Development] kcfong2:
NativeSD and Bluetooth HID (keyboard mouse)

Securecrt and Xylograph,

The NAND roms I have been using (Tytung's ICS 2.7, Xylographics CM9ight, etc), all support bluetooth keyboards and mice, as well as some (if not full) support for A2DP music control.

When I flashed the NativeSD versions of these ROMs, the bluetooth mice and keyboard DO connect, but they don't do anything... they just connect. It's like the old Gingerbread days where there was no HID support.

I've tried flashing CM9 and CM10 roms to see if there was a difference, but so far, same behavior.

I've worked with Tytung on his ROM thread, but he is out of ideas. Bottom line is, mice and keyboards work fine under NAND, but only connect and do NOT work under nativeSD. I've attached two logcats for your perusal (I have two HD2's, so I was able to compare). One is an HD2 with Tytung's ICS 2.7 rom flashed in NAND, the other is a dual boot HD2 with Windows PHone 7.8 in NAND, and Tytung's ICS 2.7 flashed as nativesd in EXT4. In both test cases, I paired a Stowaway Bluetooth mouse. You can see in the nativeSD logcat that the type of device is not being reported whereas the NAND logcat does.

Xylograph: I flashed your CM9ight and Paranoid Sourcery roms in native sd, and get the same results as Tytung's rom... the BT mice and KB connect, but don't do anything. BT headset, when used as a handsfree DOES seem to work, but A2DP (media support) does not.

Tytung asked for me to compare contents of /data/misc/bluetoothd on both systems, and both have same files... so no luck there either.

Any ideas why repackaging the NAND roms as nativeSD is causing this? I also should note that A2DP is totally not working under nativeSD (my headsets don't respond to play/pause or anything, while they do in NAND).

Hope you can help.
[HD2 Android SD Development] Szczepanik:
datagr when I had 12 NativeSD ROMs I could see them all in your excellent app. Now I added number 13 they all disappeared from your menu :confused:

Cheers

Tom
[HD2 Android SD Development] HypoTurtle:
Yea 12 folders in NativeSD folder (ROM folder or other) is the limit, (I have 15/16 on last count), you'll just need to take a folder out of the NativeSD for the app to work again (I think this limit was mentioned around v3ish of the app)
[HD2 Android SD Development] ric69:
Hi all, finaly I changed my Transcend 8Gb class6 to a Sandisk 16Gb class10 Mobile Ultra (up to 30mb/s) - uhs 1

First impression : whaou ! awesome speed ! I did not see any difference before between nand and nativesd with class6, but now with cl10 yes I can confirm it's really different

And with 6Gb on ext4, let's go for testing :laugh: Thanks to all dev :good:
[HD2 Android SD Development] securecrt:
If anyone who is feeling the NativeSD ROM is slower than NAND version pls change your SDCARD to Sandisk UHS-1 class10.
[HD2 Android SD Development] Bib_x:
There are 2 Versions of Sandisk UHS-I

Sandisk Mobile Ultra with 30 MB/s read/write

Sandisk Extreme Pro with 95/90 MB/s read/write

Which speed can HD2 handle at maximum? I think Mobile Ultra with 30 MB/s is enough?

I already use a 32 GB class 10 card (without UHS-I), is there much speed improvement if i change to UHS-I card?
[HD2 Android SD Development] securecrt:
there are many brands sdcard in the market, for Now I can only confirm Sandisk UHS-1 class 10 30M/S is good for NativeSD ROM.

I didn't try the Extreme Pro version as the price is very high I can't afford it now.I guess this serial should be better than the 30M/S version. but I don't know whether HD2 can support it.
[HD2 Android SD Development] kcfong2:
BluetoothT Mouse and Keyboard

As unscientific as it seemed, and since I really don't know what I'm doing ;), just for kicks, I copied over the init*.rc and uevent*.rc files from the root of my NAND'd HD2 to the root of the NativeSD. I also copied the missing (and incompatible) ueventd from sbin over. I changed owner to system.system, and chmodded to 777. Same results... no change. At least it didn't die on me ;)

Let me know if there's anything else I can try.

Xylograph, let me know if you want me to keep this topic in this thread or continue it in Tytung's ROM thread. I hate to double post, but I saw you answered in the other thread.
[HD2 Android SD Development] spetrie:
Any Androbench speed tests results for your Sandisk card?

Would like to compare it to my Lexar C10 32GB card to see if I can make NativeSD any faster. I get some slowdowns, but nothing like on old SD method.

Seq Read 12.42MB/s

Seq Write 4.33 MB/s

Ran Read 4.0MB/s, 1026.06 IOPS(4K)

Ran Write 0.35MB/s, 92.02 IOPS(4K)
[HD2 Android SD Development] KyJelly69:
I figured out why my write speed was so different between ext4 and fat32. In a fresh install of PA 2.15 i changed the i/o scheduler. i get the best results from deadline. i think there must be a display error because no matter what i pick it says it's using cfq but i get radically better results.

EDIT:

i installed system tuner so i could reliably set the i/o scheduler. i also uninstall sd speed increase because system tuner handles that too. afterwards the system's built-in i/o scheduler displays the current one being used even if i use it to change it. however now all my benchmarks, regardless of where i set the scheduler, are are now back to the same slow write speed. i've tried rebooting. anyone know what in the world is going on?
[HD2 Android SD Development] gpietron:
Guys, where can I find these files? look like needed for nativeSDMultiBoot CLK but no longer attached to post with v5 (or v6) ??

ok, found it: Put mkbootimg.sh and mkbootimg from the flash_sboot_v2.zip....

would be good to put this sentence at the first post near download links.

thx,
[HD2 Android SD Development] datagr:
Done!

I have edited the post that you found the instructions about CLK. :)
[HD2 Android SD Development] gpietron:
This means #809, thanks.

Although I think with new versions coming in the future (right :) ? ) it would be easier to add the comment near the Change Log & links at the end of #1.

Anyway, GREAT work indeed, I am very happy with the ROM, NativeSD and nativeSDMultiBoot.

thanks again,
[HD2 Android SD Development] datagr:
Well, for now I am waiting for any requests to make the next step on the app. :)
[HD2 Android SD Development] onlinegames:
Hi datagr,

Since you are inviting requests, here's one... :)

When user selects "Reboot" in the "Switch rom" section, can you add a confirmation prompt and proceed with the reboot only if the user selects "Yes"? I have rebooted my device a few times while trying to switch to a new ROM. :(
[HD2 Android SD Development] maheg:
how to add touchwize ux

i have touchwize launcher in zip extension how i can add the META-INF folder in the native sd ?
[HD2 Android SD Development] mperezm77:
How can I set a 4k aligned partition?

Is it worth to disable journalling to improve speed?
[HD2 Android SD Development] Tiller:
Hello there,

I use the NexusHD2 rom using native SD. I tried to install also the JB (Jelly Bean beta4) rom, but I can't switch.

I first tried with the software. Select JB > Reboot: Fail, I was still in the NexusHD2 rom.

Then, I tried to replace manually file, coping /sdcard/NativeSD/JB/ files to ../

Reboot => Fail, NexusJD2 rom.

Do someone have an idea why it doesn't work ?

(I'm using CLK)

:)
[HD2 Android SD Development] datagr:
Did you follow the directions on the nativesdmultiboot version5 post?

Did you use sboot partition for CLK?

Are you on NAND or SD rom?