[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] TheWerewolf:
It always amazes (and depresses) me how fast a discussion on a relatively simple and interesting subject degrades into pointless squabbling and rationalisation. It's not just here, of course - but that it happens at all is unfortunate. Instead of discussing the subject, we end up discussing the participants and their foibles, or argue to protect our preferences rather than actually *listening* and seeing if there's merit.

I ran into this big time when I came here to learn about my Prime, then found that a lot of people didn't want to hear anything negative about their choice (which, they seemed to forget, was *my* choice as well...)

But rather than get caught up in the drama, I'll go back to the original post and discuss that.

Same here. I even have a Samsung Q1U... :)

True, to a degree. But you also have to recognise that true pen support isn't an intrinsic part of Android and the Notes are essentially the first mainstream non-Windows tablets to support that feature. It will take time to build up a selection of software to do what we take for granted in Windows. Then again, there's really not a lot of software for Windows that really takes advantage of a pen. Part of the reason is that the big hitters like Photoshop insist on using WinTab drivers rather than the Microsoft Ink system that comes built in.

I disagree with this rather strongly. Windows is easy to configure to be easier to use on a tablet using a finger. Most people just don't take the time to do it, and most tablet makers don't add an easy to do preconfigure it. Toshiba is one exception. They include a utility on the M700 series that resizes controls to make using Win7 with your finger quite easy.

You're also making something a value judgement without context. The original intention of Tablet PC was *pen* use, not touch. Touch came much later. One reason Apple made such a hard split between MacOS and iOS (which are based on the same codebase an share large parts of the same code) is to intentionally break the iOS user of the notion of using a mouse or pen which provide far more accurate pointing in favour of capactive touch screens which, contrary to what a lot of people think, are actually not very precise.

By removing the ability to use a digital pen or mouse, developers were obligated to write apps with big easy to hit targets. It made touch interaction easier - but made precision almost impossible. That's why note taking apps took so long to come to iDevices and still are surprisingly primitive in many ways.

Windows 8 has been highly optimised first for Metro apps and then for desktop apps. Part of this comes from the obligation to use XAML or HTML as an application markup language. This isn't how older apps work. Micrsoft actually improved the touch responsiveness and battery life in Win7 over Vista or XP as well. Win8 is the next logical progression much as Project Butter is for Android.

Writing reco really has more to do with the evoution of the recognition technology than anything else. Samsung is using Vision Objects, who makes one of, if not the best handwriting/shape recognition systems on the market (we use it in our Windows software, for example). The seamlessness comes from the fact that most of these apps are written by the same company - or are playing nicely with basic services in Android. Windows has never offered this, until Win8, because until recently, that's not how people used Windows. That's changing and Microsoft is changing Windows to reflect this.

I have a Samsung Series 7 Slate - that's the reference platform for Windows 8 - the one that Microsoft gave out to 5000 developers at //build/ last year to give them a development platform for Windows 8 (which came preinstalled on it). I've had it since Dec 2011. I keep installing Win8 on it - then removing it. In fact, I now have it in a VHD boot setup where Win8 is stored on a file I can remove from my system when I don't need it and boot into it when I do. (This isn't a virtual machine - it's a full boot system much like having a dual partition system).

Why do I keep removing it? Well, first off - too many of the apps I absolutely *must* have either don't work in it or work very strangely. In the end, I own a computer to get work done. The OS on it is almost secondary - it's the applications that matter. If they don't work, then I don't change my OS until they do work.

The other problem is that the OS radically changes my workflow. If it made my workflow simpler or more natural, that wouldn't be an issue. But Win8 *doesn't* do that. Every change is done to "encourage" me to the Metro side. Unfortunately, very few apps I use have Metro equivalents. So I end up in a constant boxing match with Win8. Ironically, even Microsoft couldn't make it work - I keep having to drop into desktop and going to the old control panel to get basic things done. That's a huge sign that Win8 is still half baked.

Again, the reason I have a computer is to get work done. I build up workflows to make that work easier and more reliable. It's how I get work done and that's how I make my living. If Microsoft screws around with that - they cost me time and money. It's *not* my responsibility or obligaiton to invest more time and money to fix something that I didn't break. it's Microsoft's obligation to show me why investing that time and money will make my work easier or more efficient. With Win8, so far, Microsoft has utterly failed to show me this.

Now, if they'd released Metro as one system and classic Windows as another then I'd be ok with it. If they'd left the desktop mode alone and offered me a choice as to which one to use by default - also good. But they broke the desktop - and they constantly force me into Metro, where I don't want to be.

This I agree with. I have both - a tablet PC and a Note 10.1. When I go anywhere that I expect to have to work, I bring both. I have the slim power supply for the Series 7 slate and it's actually quite compact and light. My only complaint about the Note in this respect is that it takes a pretty darn beefy power supply itself. I can't charge it using the Slate's USB. Even most other tablet chargers balk at charging the Note. Fortunately, it's a small power supply (but still significant).

If I'm not expecting to work, it's just the Note.

The other thing is, I draw for recreation. The Slate is arguable better than the Note simply because the software is more advanced and feature complete. Photoshop Touch on the Note, for example, insists on saving your projects in protected store. The ONLY way to get them out is either to save to gallery as a jpg or png (destroying all the composition information such as layers), or uploading to their Creative Content website,, then downloading again to my PC.

It's workable, but tedious and I really don't want my personal illustrations up on the web unless it's where *I* want them to be.

I also find that the Note isn't... quite there. The pressure sensitivity seems capricious - you never quite know what you're going to get. I tend to use the Note as a sketchbook, then (annoyingly) move the files to the Slate where I do the detail work. On the other hand, I know some serious artists who crank out mind numbing artwork on a Nintendo DS using Colors... so perhaps I'm spolied by having had a Wacom based full on tablet.

In the end, I don't see either as a replacement of the other. They do different things differently. The Note is an amazing device to carry everywhere. The Slate is an amazing device when I want to do heavy lifting. Will Win8 tablets change this? Not from what I've seen of Metro so far. It tries too hard to be a very social-oriented iPad. I didn't like the iPad - that's why I bought an Android tablet. The desktop is too messed up in Win8 to use it as a Tablet PC.

So, for me - I'll wait for Win9.