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[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Badger50:
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Badger50

Forum Moderator
[Motorola Atrix 2] hankbizzo5:
Ok so been searching around the forums and found there seems to be a few devs/rom devs that use this on the second or third post.....

List of Shame (Flagged Users)

These are the list of users who asked questions without properly reading the OP. It's a waste of space and a waste of time to read it. Read OP twice. Think twice. and Think again before posting. If you don't, you'll end up here and will no longer get the support you're looking from me and of course, it will be a big shame for you.

offender Names + offences Ie : op states Wifi does not work User X brings up wifi does not work.

Not sure where credit is actually due but could help to avoid a lot of drama.....
[Motorola Atrix 2] Apex:
I LOVE this idea! Not sure if it's any kind of infringement on forum rules or not, but could be a great "checks and balance" for n00obs and others to think twice before posting...

Edit: I think we (you) should post a thread in the General Section, so as for all to see! Also, as mentioned below, create a set of "Rules of Redemption" for listees to have a chance to be removed.
[Motorola Atrix 2] devilhunter47:
Well once someone gets their name in the list further posts from them will be ignored even if they are genuine dont you think??:)
[Motorola Atrix 2] jimbridgman:
Oh this is awesome!!! I like the idea, but you should expand this for everyone, not just yourself to not give support to those list of users on this, list.

there should also be a way off the bad boy list too, not sure how at the moment, but there has to be a way to redeem oneself like maybe a three strikes or something to actually get on the list and then there is no getting off, but the first and second time(s) you get a chance to redeem yourself and can still get off this list maybe..
[Motorola Atrix 2] hankbizzo5:
Think this would be more to make users read and research a little more..... If they end up on the list and ask something down the road if it is relevant we will not shun them atleast me.....

@ Jim yea some type of balance system to keep things in check would be the way to go..... Someone on with 1 post on a list could say get a warning or whatever they end up repeat offenders then take action.....
[Motorola Atrix 2] amitranjan:
How about the multiple section tags feature? This will act as keyword for searching. E.g. http://stackoverflow.com like meta tags....fixed tags for each section can only created by reputed members only.

I said so as we have auto suggestion for similar questions is already there.
[Motorola Atrix 2] leifemagnuson:
Lots of forums have a q&a section. Each rom then has a post where users can help each other and leave the dev threads uncluttered. It can be listed in op and any question asked can simply be replied with the link to said forum. This could be used in conjunction with a list of shame.

I once thought a forum had to have a certain amount of post to get a q&a but the ion has one with hardly any activity.

My two cents. I like the list of shame idea though.
[Motorola Atrix 2] hankbizzo5:
Well we could throw around some ideas and see what would be a fair way to work something like this.....
[Motorola Atrix 2] jimbridgman:
Here is my thoughts for this:

2 lists:

1) Infractions list:

Users name and a +1 or a +2 after their name, and the offense(s) i.e. not searching, or posting an issue in a forum that was already in the OP.

2) Permanent "bad boy list", this is 3 or more infractions, and the list of said infractions are not needed.

The fist list should include a link to said infraction(s), and it should last for 15 days for first offense, and 3-60 days for the 2nd offense. These offense should be notified to you hankbizzo through PM or some "more private" facility.

These are just my thoughts on this.
[Motorola Atrix 2] Apex:
For each first time offender, a link to this: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1857631[GUIDE] How To Be A New Member, Not A N00B (?) and a "written warning" with the expressed intent to add them to the 'black list' if found in contempt again...

Edit: hankbizzo5, and you might PM prbassplayer and see about getting him on board with this. If others can't read the rules (as listed by YOU) and post an offender in the thread and neglect to send said offender to you via PM, then you can have that post linked to their offense, assuming it's their first and in "written warning" with form.
[Motorola Atrix 2] hankbizzo5:
I will let this run for a few and gather as much info and oppinions as I can..... then will post up a (Bad boys list).....
[Motorola Atrix 2] Apex:
Suggestions:

Rules, first and foremost- infractions of offenders to include, but not limited to:

Any member found posting in wrong sections and/or posting a new thread unnecessarily or a re-posting of similar thread(s).

Apparent and blatant failure to search before posting

Posting incorrect or bogus information

Flaming/trolling/or other 'misconduct' such as combative or abusive language and/or intolerance of others

Posting Warez or other solicitations for gain/profit/personal advantage

Spamming the boards

Not using or posting in English

Posting/bumping one's own threads repeatedly for quicker responses

Using other's work(s) without permission(s)

Not posting in clear, concise manner(s)

Asking for donations

(Basically, all the "normal" and expected forum rules to adhere to and observe)

Disciplinary Actions:

1st offense = "written warning" with in your (hankbizzo5) OP along with link of infraction and brief description

2nd offense = name of user added to the "List of Shame" with links to infractions and brief description. Name to be held on list for 15 days

3rd offense = name of user added to the "List of Shame" with links to infractions and brief description. Name to be held on list for 30 days

4th offense = name of user added to the "List of Shame" with links to infractions and brief description. Name to be held on list permanently

Rules of Redemption:

1st time offenders = provide 3 helpful or useful posts to members with links to be PM'd to hankbizzo5 for review of redemption and subsequent removal of List of Shame

2nd time offenders = provide 5 helpful or useful posts to members with links to be PM'd to hankbizzo5 for review of redemption and subsequent removal of List of Shame

3rd time offenders = provide 10 helpful or useful posts to members with links to be PM'd to hankbizzo5 for review of redemption and subsequent removal of List of Shame

4th time offenders= you're out of luck

Feel free to tweak/add/omit/etc
[Motorola Atrix 2] smgulsby:
And who will be judge and jury? How can we be assured that no bias is used in judgement.

---------- Post added at 03:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:28 PM ----------

I agree wholeheartedly with a q&a section.
[Motorola Atrix 2] troycarpenter:
Wow. I understand the intent behind all this, and if people have the time/energy to track it all, more power to you. I understand the frustration behind this effort, but I think it does more to quell free exchange of information than promote it. However, here's my two comments...

You may need to break this one out more. Flaming and Trolling are usually obvious, but I've seen some posts by all parties devolve into abusive and intolerant responses.

Not sure about this one. Not everyone is clear and concise.
[Motorola Atrix 2] Apex:
The "jury" might be a selection of Senior Members and Developers who could review the infractions. Let's face it, the rules are simple, and those breaking them are easy to spot. No need for "innocent until prove that guilty" with most of these kind of things...
[Motorola Atrix 2] leifemagnuson:
So I'm clear. Above scenarios jim's or apex's. The end result would be an agreement not to help people on the permanent banned list?

The ones on the infraction list could still participate and or receive help in say the general or if we get one the q&a thread for a specific rom?

Then only members "in good standing" could post bug or bug reports in the devs rom thread in dev section. Leaving the other sections for users to help thus relieving some of the reading and burden involved in maintaining a rom.

General section would still be open for threads other than blatant reposts or complete disregard for established xda forum rules?
[Motorola Atrix 2] Apex:
Well, it's all still sort of being fleshed out at the moment. Not even sure if we'll commit to such a thread, but if so those on the 'permanent' list don't necessarily get completely alienated, but there should be NO REASON for anyone to even get there. It's more a "boilerplate" consequence which should see no members find themselves there. As far as not allowing members to post in certain threads as result of their rule breaking, we don't have that type of authority nor should we want it. It's more like a "stockade", if you will, to keep everyone from fugging up; and if they do its right there for everyone to see. Nobody likes to be humiliated, and I doubt there will be much more than written reprimand actions being given anyhow. I don't know, hankbizzo5 says he's seen this done elsewhere, and chances are its 'quelled' no free exchange of information. Those that ended up on the lists elsewhere obviously said or did something stupid. I wouldn't consider that type of information exchange valued or important. Who knows, still in the bouncing around ideas and thoughts stages...
[Motorola Atrix 2] jimbridgman:
Pretty much anyone can still do what they like, and it will still be up to anyone or everyone to do what they want. If you would like to follow the method on putting those on the so called bad boy list on your ignore list, is again up to you to do. These users can still post and do anything they want on xda, it is up to individual users to decide how they really want to take part or not in this. I am thinking for me that anyone who ends up on the permanent list would end up on my ignore list and anyone on the other lists would just be more like a slap on the hand would still get full support unless the really pushed it and ended up on the permanent list, which then again it is up to you to ignore or not.

That is just my take on it.
[Motorola Atrix 2] Ajfink:
This seems puerile.
[Motorola Atrix 2] leifemagnuson:
Of course this is all based whether we as users agree to said scenarios. My first paragraph could have been clearer I guess. Over all I like the idea. I think I prefer apex's 4th offence along with the redemption policy.

My thoughts on keeping this from being stickied. I, like I bet most of you don't always check the stickies when on tapatalk. I much prefer the bump system for this type of thing with links in op's and signatures.

Edit: Has anyone seen or read "A boy and his dog"? Who is the committee?
[Motorola Atrix 2] hankbizzo5:
I think the intent would be more of a wake up call for minor things..... If there was a list it would not be so we would all gang up and pick on offender of even shun them ..... But in the case of those posting misleading info would be a good heads up to question there advice..... example member XXX was telling people how to do a upgrade that was all wrong causing bricks would be those who need to be brought to attention to provent further damages.....
[Motorola Atrix 2] hankbizzo5:
Well it could be taken as childish but the amount of people that are not following the general guidelines of the forum have become quite large..... Also this could be a hidden thread between Mods and select few senior members?????

EDIT: Things have changed quite a bit since I have joined..... This being the LARGEST developers community of it's kind and often under the spotlight I think it should be respected for just that what it is..... Those who do not respect the rules should not be a part of it simple as that......
[Motorola Atrix 2] souljaboy:
very bad idea.. the noob who doesnt search for his question will def. not bother reading this noobhunting guide either.

not helping at all, difficult to maintain, and redundant with existing moderation system.
[Motorola Atrix 2] leifemagnuson:
That's why we only reply with a link. Nothing else needed. That way I don't have to read all the following post about search this read that crap. No more flaming for stupid posts just a simple link. Help those that help themselves.
[Motorola Atrix 2] Apex:
Well spoken...
[Motorola Atrix 2] :
I am joining in late, but this (the idea) could prove to be extra burden on the senior members shoulders or even on the devs who are already working overtime here, instead of this my idea is to have forum watchers, these will be inspecting each new thread as it is posted and if necessary will report to the mod if the thread violates the rules and report it to a senior dev if the forum watcher smells something fishy or something that may lead to a brick. It will be lot easier this way and we should have few forum watchers from at least 2/3 time zones. Probably one from asian region and one from the american, this way there will be 24 hour protection from n00bish or even from doomsday posts!

I know apex, Jim and few others are already doing this, my idea is to relieve them from this, so that they can concentrate more on awesome things that they usually do. Choosing few and letting the forum mod know about them as our official forum watchers, so that immediate action can be taken when these members report on something.

Edit:

Yesterday I saw a kid post a video explaining "How to install ICS 4.9 on the Atrix 2" and wanted to warn the excited commentators regarding the leak and all, so dropped a comment on it, and the kid is so much excited that some one from XDA has dropped a comment, my point? That's the value of this great community, and we should try to keep it that way. This is what we should be able to tell the n00bs, personally i dont mind the real n00b who posts a question in wrong thread, and when directed in the right direction, thanks the senior member and leaves the place quitely, i am really annoyed by those, who refuse to take the advice and start flaming, these are the guys who should be dealt in a harsh manner.
[Motorola Atrix 2] hankbizzo5:
Glad to see the input for the pros and cons..... So far they both seem to be fairly valid on both sides.....
[Motorola Atrix 2] gvsukids:
Would this list carry over if the member moves onto a new phone? Or would the member only have the ban in Atrix 2 forum?

Also, could we help someone who uses poor English? Its easy for most of us, by not everyone is so lucky.
[Motorola Atrix 2] Apex:
No, the "List" would have no crossover from forum to forum, it would be exclusively for the Atrix 2 forum. Also, it's not necessarily a "ban", so to speak, but more like when you out a child in time out in the corner, but everyone's in the room, and the TV happens to be in that same corner. :p

As far as the usage of poor English, that one is lowest on the list of offenses, or would be to me. The problem lies with people posting both incorrect information and in the wrong sections, alongside re-posts, and that sort of thing. Though we've seen a lesser degree of this lately, it still happens. And, when it does, it seems to come in waves.

With that in mind, those that cannot seem to figure out how things work here, would end up (typically) with the first 'written warning' and added to the list, only to be removed after a short time. Repeated instances would remain longer, and so on. As a result, it would be a better reminder to those to keep in step with forum rules, and an added incentive to those seeking help, with the incentive being that they bust their butt trying everything possible to find their answers before posting, and knowing that if they just want to omit the search step, they'll end up on the "list".

At least that's how it's shaping up to this point in the discussion..
[Motorola Atrix 2] DarrellRaines:
Personally I am very against this. This forum compared to all the others i frequent on xda is bar none the most oppressive and least forgiving of the lot.

Granted everyone hates having to answer stupid questions or read what they consider useless posts, but this type of thing could only end poorly. Think about the guy that screws up just once and how every "dev" or senior member gives them so much crap. Now imagine being publicly shamed or shunned for it which we already do here. How do you think that's going to make someone who came here for help feel?

Really i think most people here need to stop the noob bashing that has gotten ridiculous lately in my opinion and just let it slide as it is never going to end. There will always be someone that does it and we can either be a true community that helps or one that basically only caters to what they consider worthy members and ignores the rest.

Who are we to judge who is worthy of our help and who isn't? We are a community of helpful individuals, not a colony of pricks.

Ok done. Not that my opinion matters as the little group of friends that hound people will most likely not listen and do what they want anyways, but i'd be a fool to not interject.
[Motorola Atrix 2] leifemagnuson:
@darrellrains

Who the hell do.... nah just kidding.

I'm starting to agree. I don't think this ends well. I'm going to pm our mod and ask for a q&a thread. Devs can keep a list of shame in there rom threads in the dev section if they want but otherwise I think this is going too far now. If we started a help thread for roms in q&a like every other forum and gave help there to anyone it would be less hassle. Dev section is cleaner. We don't have to be pricks. Just answer with links to proper q&a. Easy no fuss and no extra responsibilities for anyone.
[Motorola Atrix 2] Apex:
No, your opinion is valued and appreciated. Everyone here has a right to express their view on this "idea", as that's all it is right now. I personally can see and side with both sides of this discussion, which is why I'm conflicted. I don't want us as a whole to be 'oppressive', as you suggested, nor do I want us to be a bunch of n00b bashers either. Truth be told, perhaps this thread is all we need at this point to, well, get our point across. Will this need to be bumped every day for the next several months? No, THAT would be ridiculous. However, the rise in stupidity has seemed to be lessened lately (or maybe that's just my take) and quite possibly because of this discussion, or maybe completely unrelated.

I agree that we are - or should be - a community of willing helpfulness, and nothing short of that. I myself have dropped a gear and slowed down with my own approach to n00bs and others, as it got pretty stinkin' chaotic here a couple of months back. Frustrations were high, tempers flaring, egos and attitudes were unruly, but it HAS gotten better. So, needless to say that we all need to be tolerant of n00bs and provide them the very best tools and guidelines to help them overcome being n00bs and evolve to become helpful members with the rest, and that needs to be observed by everyone, from n00b to non...

I'm not so sure a Q&A thread is the best idea either. Here's why: we have 4 sub-forums within the Atrix 2 forum. Add another and things get spread out over a wider table of 'food for thought - erm, knowledge' and there are several great threads and stickies in the General Section that answer a LOT of n00b-based questions. It may make it harder for those new here to find what they need when their search location(s) expand. That's what I like about this forum, it's seemingly small, but there's so many of us. The forum appears to have little as far as "sub-forum appeal" (loads of subs) but the ones we have are packed with just about everything one needs to know, if not entirely. I think n00bs, and I mean the REALLY fresh ones have a hard enough time with what they have to work with, and expansion may not be the best for them. Just my thoughts, and they too are pretty fresh on this particular subject...
[Motorola Atrix 2] leifemagnuson:
@apex

I'm just a fan of how the other forums with them(sgiii, note etc) enforce the use of them. Questions answered in q&a without fear of "stupid questions".

Really though it makes no difference to me. You and I have discussed before my opinion on helping. I don't help much because I didn't make it or mod it and I read everything about it before I use it.

This really comes down to "senior members" actions. The way noobs are treated is atrocious. We should lay off and just reply with the answer or the link to the answer and a link yo your noob thread and let it be.

Forum cops making a huge deal about every little useless question is as aggregating as anything else.
[Motorola Atrix 2] Apex:
I'm not a slighting your comments on requesting a Q&A thread, so I hope you don't think I was. My concern would be this, what happens to the General Section? I'd worry that it would become muddied and unclear as to what to post there and why. Q&A is clearly self-explanatory, but if we had both couldn't a question be posted in either? I think we should have started out with a Q&A sub, the dev sub, themes and apps, and accessories sub. We'd be better off with that setup, but the way it is now works just the same, I suppose. I also agree that WE ALL need to look at how we posture ourselves with n00bs, and weigh up a personal 'restructuring' on how we address them. It's better for them (the n00bs) and better for us as a community. Maybe this thread could be a wake-up call for everyone, and with no need for further courses of actions being taken - forum beat patrols by Seniors or Members, if you know what I mean...
[Motorola Atrix 2] hankbizzo5:
Like mentioned this was just a Q&A of something I had seen on other parts of the forum..... Might it be something that would work or not..... Everyones imput is a BIG factor might something like this be implemented.....

While waiting for ICS in the quiet time before the next storm figured would throw it out there..... BUT it seems like this could snowball into more than just opinions.....

Fact is the devs are the ones doing most everything here we should leave the final decision to them in all fairness.....

Would that sound reasonable?????
[Motorola Atrix 2] rdavisct:
UH OH! Somebody call whine one one , were going to need a wambulance out here immediately!

Seriously..people are too sensitive.if you cant take the heat,get out of the kitchen.this is coming from someone who busts his ass daily coding and building roms.ive had my casual snap on someone. It happens,this dev work is stressful and by no means is it a walk in the park.so it happens.people need to get over it.
[Motorola Atrix 2] hankbizzo5:
+100 lol!!!!! :highfive:

Got to add that to my sig HAHAHA thanks :laugh: .....
[Motorola Atrix 2] jimbridgman:
@DarrelRaines:

More to the point of what rdavisct said, in that this place is for the dev team to get out give you our best work, and time all for free. And we get heated about things in here, but it is not acceptable for noobs to not follow the rules time and time again and expect nothing from it. It shows disrespect to all of us devs who give all our time freely to everyone in here noobs and not.

All we expect is for those to somewhat help themselves and us too, by properly following the rules and showing respect by doing the simple things like searching, and posting in a thread that might have an issue close to theirs, and not come in and complain and whine too much and act like they are the only person to have this problem unless it truly is new, but those have been few and far between for a while now.

I am not saying that people opinions don't matter, and neither is anyone else. This is a very polite way to show people that if they do some thing that is messed up they get their name on the black board like in school. If they keep it up then it is up to anyone who wants to, to add them to their own personal ignore list, this is not permanent or a true ban or anything like that.
[Motorola Atrix 2] lkrasner:
Oh dear god. IF this turns into the giant flame war talked about in this thread I am gonna cry.