yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] BarryH_GEG:
You're right but for different reasons. Anand's discussion on IO made a light bulb go off for me. While people are experiencing different things, the h/w itself is performing exactly the same. For someone who mostly does a single thing at a time, doesn't have a lot of syncs running (they create IO), and isn't a heavy concurrent wireless user (BT and/or Wi-Fi), the IO issues would be much less noticeable. The moment background tasks kick-in the UI will start to slow down and other funky issues will present themselves as the IO controller struggles to manage multiple simultaneous read/write tasks. In other words, it's not differences in h/w that's causing different user experiences but what they're doing differently; some of it without even being aware because it's happening in the background.

Stick with me and I'll explain why I think it's going to make it worse, not better. Asus has been using pretty much the same IO setup since the TF101. What's changed that it’s suddenly becoming more noticeable? First, processors are becoming a lot faster. On a Teg2 device

everything

was slow so better IO h/w wouldn't make much of a difference and poorer h/w wouldn't stand out. Starting with 3.2, multithreading has been steadily beefed up in the OS but few apps really were revised to take advantage of it. Now that 3.X/ICS/JB have been out for a while more apps are beginning to use multithreading.

Here's an example that demonstrates the challenges Asus tablets have with multiple activities. It also eliminates the FHD display as a potential source of any performance issues (at least in a discussion of IO).

In the Linpak single-thread test the TF700 does great; it is after all a 1.7GHz chip vs. a 1.4GHz chip. In the multi-thread test, Linpak is behaving as if it were multiple apps and hitting the IO controller (and other parts) with simultaneous requests. Results go from being neck-in-neck with the Note to being considerably behind. You can rule out RAM/NAND because if it were an issue the TF700 wouldn't have done so well in the single-thread test. You might say it has something to do with Teg3 alone or in combination with ICS that causes it to multitask more poorly then Exynos. But...

Here's my Teg 3 One X results. The ratio between the two tests is almost exactly the same as the Note's so it's not Teg3 and/or 4.0.4.

So if my hunch is right, with JB introducing more multithread support (some of it being used natively within the OS), the IO issues Asus tablets face are going to become more pronounced rather than less. The same thing holds true as more app developers begin taking advantage of multithreading to improve the performance of their apps. I hope for Asus tablet owner's sake I'm wrong and that JB is the "miracle" everyone's hoping for. But this is far less “anecdotal" than what someone in another thread called Anand's video summary.

P.S. - I hope you don't mind me having this conversation here rather than in the TF700 forum where you originally posted. We both know that wouldn't be very productive (or gentlemanly). ;)
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] freedomispopular:
I think I may have said this earlier in this thread, but I can also say that I get excellent battery life. Consistently 10+ his screen on time. Once I even got 12. Here's proof for the doubters :D
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] demandarin:
Good points. didn't look at it that way.

Maybe thats why some noticed poorer i/o performance on jb. I think it was 300 owners.

But it still doesn't explain why Nexus 7 performs so well compared to other Asus tabs. on stock I didnt experience any lags, crashes, anr, and it plays any game you throw at it. the nexus 7 is one of the most stable tablets out there. I wonder if it uses a different I/o controller than other Asus tabs. they did something right or different because jb s/w on N7 is rock solid. I multitask on N7 and get no lags anywhere. especially on the Ui.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] BarryH_GEG:
My theory (and it's just a theory) could explain a lot of the common problems people are experiencing and why some are experiencing them more than others.

ANRs - If multiple apps are running (or a single multithreaded app) and the IO controller becomes overwhelmed it'll either begin to lose requests from apps that are in queue or take too long to respond. Either would cause the app to throw an ANR. People that have a lot of background apps or syncs running would experience them more than others.

Sound sync issues - Video and audio are two separate tracks combined in a single file for most videos. They need to play simultaneously to avoid delays and out-of-sync situations. If the controller can't keep up with both at the same time that explains why files people play on other Android devices that are fine experience audio delays on Asus tablets.

Browser hangs - I'm not sure but I'd bet the ICS browser uses multithreading. Requests from the browser could also be given a lower priority than other core OS tasks putting it further back in queue if the controller’s busy.

If you think about it, the faster the processor the more pronounced the issues will be. 1) If the IO controller hasn't been improved and the processor's throwing things at it faster the likelihood of it being overwhelmed is greater. 2) From a user experience perspective everything is far more fluid with a faster processor making things that aren't a lot more noticeable.

According to Anand, they did.

Some manufacturers seem to do a better job of picking their storage solution,

and the Kingston eMMC in the Nexus 7 is faster than the Hynix e-NAND ASUS has used in previous tablets

. Neither is perfect however. There's a tangible impact on simple multitasking if you're downloading a lot of files or installing apps in the background. Even operations in memory are quite negatively affected by background IO.​

If you think about it the TF201, TF300, and TF700 are all mutations of a single design. The N7 was a clean sheet approach. I'd bet you Asus' next-gen of 10.1" tablets use different parts. The sad thing is that of all the parts that go in to a device these aren’t really that expensive.

I'm not picking on Asus but you and I have followed this stuff for a long time. It's fascinating to see some of it (potentially) explained.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] tschulieh:
Hey there,

I wrote a little review of both tabletts, take a look at it, perhaps it can help you.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1869576

In your case for watching movies, reading and so on, I suggest you the TF700, cause the screen is really awsome.

You switch in economy mode an can use it one day easily, even with higher brighness.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] Rescue9:
Took my POS Infinity (my own personal opinion so as to not cause a flame war) back yesterday. Had it a week and a half and was disgusted. I've had the note less than 24 hours and I'm already loving it. Faster, more stable, etc.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] junrider:
I just returned mine (infinity) today. Thought it was a great machine well better than the prime with the screen, GPS, and wifi.... of course I the sound could have been better and volume+ made it louder but also crackle, Netflix wasnt as smoothed and some other apps (like songpop) was slugish even with force gpu checked, the deal breaker is when the bluetooth would pair with my phone but not connect so I couldnt use my phone's data plan (I connected maybe 2 times the 1 month of ownership). Went to bestbuy this morning and the first thing tested was the bluetooth pairing and connecting with the note and it worked right way. Ordered myself the note 32gig to test out to give me another 60day return period. Squaretrade gave me a full refund for my infinity tablet and now what to do with my dock and cases only a week old....
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] BarryH_GEG:
Damn, it's like old home week from the Prime forum. The Note's not without idiosyncrasies but you'll never have any problems with the basics like wireless, apps working properly, or build quality.

Here are some recent posts from the TF700 forum that I've found amusing. I only wish I had the patience that some TF700 owners do when it comes to other things in my life.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] Nakel:
I'm glad you like it. For movies though, I'd recommend the Note 10.1. The screen is a little bit better on the TF700 when watching movies perhaps, but at normal viewing distance perhaps not. But the sound on the Note 10.1 is much, much better than on the TF700 thanks to the front facing stereo speakers. The TF700 is barely usable without a headset, whereas the Note 10.1 is a pleasure to listen to.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] junrider:
Hehehe.. I have been in this forum sightseeing. Seeing you and demandarin on the same side is nice to see. Pretty much I have been contemplating for a few days now whether to exchange for another infinity or try the note. But seeing you guys agreeing and you guys' posts made me try the note and see what this tablet has to offer me. Plus getting my infinity to connect to my phone drove me nuts, so I just took the plunge and hit factoy reset and everything is history. Ill get my note mid next week and get to play around with it. Ill keep my infinity dock and cases for a bit while I test the note incase I want to try the infinity again... Yeah, I learned from the prime that returning multiple times and getting dissapointed time after time is takes up too much time. Im looking for a tablet that just works as it should. The infinity made a lot of improvements, but it is still lacking the QC that is expected from a new high end tablet. How hard is it rooting the note tablet? It was fairly easy on the infinity but not familiar with rooting with the note and if it is safe.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] wingzero2085:
It's funny reading those posts over in the TF700 forum, especially from a few people I recall from the TF101 forum -- all of whom suffered the same problems that I did with the TF101, and now they're the biggest Asus cheerleaders yet again with the 700. Gluttons for punishment, perhaps? I don't know. I just know that I can't touch another Asus tablet for a long time.

I came from the TF101, myself -- a tablet I owned from day 1. It was great while running HC, but it had serious issues with WiFi and bluetooth connections (if I could go a week without them dropping to the point where I had to reboot to regain use of them, it was a good week). Then came the video and other issues with ICS, too. Ugh. From what I'm seeing on the Infinity board, it sounds like some of those issues remain in Asus products -- and the general consensus there is the same as it was on the 101 board -- root/rom. Forgive me if I want a solid, working product out of the box. They want to know why Samsung is outselling Asus? Their stuff works out of the box.

That's not to say that the Note isn't without its quirks. I've certainly discovered enough of them after using it for a couple of weeks now -- but they are absolutely NOTHING compared to the low-level, basic operational issues I had with Asus. To Asus I say, goodbye and good riddance (for now -- if they do some redesigning, I'd probably give 'em a chance again). ;)
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] BarryH_GEG:
Any you'll get to do cool stuff no other tablet does like this. ;) I took this screen shot when connected to GoGo flying home from DFW. You should have seen the guy sitting next to me with an iPad3's face. The wireless on the Note's fantastic. Connects first-time and every time after automatically. An no issues with BT while streaming via Wi-Fi (which I do a lot). TouchWiz is a little overbearing but you get used to it and adds some decent features (like the mini-apps below) Hope you're happy with your choice.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] toenail_flicker:
Nice. :)
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] demandarin:
Id say there's no rush to root. The note performs so well out the box. The methods of rooting are different with Samsung devices. They use a program or something called Odin you put on your PC. This can basically do everything. You can root and unlock your device through it. Kind of like Samsung own tool. There's a mobile version also, THST just released recently. Its mobile Odin. Where you can flash/root/unlock from within tablet itself. Definitely do the background research on Samsung methods. That's why its a great thing device performs so well out the box. I really see no reason st all to root/unlock ATM. Custom scene just getting started. In one lmfal these threads the developer broke down Samsung methods and terminology for me. As I'm new to Samsung scene also.

I read THST its very safe though. You can basically come back from any kind of brick. So we have more access to the device than Asus ones. I'msure there's plenty of YouTube videos on Samsung methods of rooting/unlocking/flashing. So you not alone. Alot of us former Asus prime/infinity owners are in new uncharted territory here.

But yes, device is already rootable and is very safe. I personally see no reason to root yet. Which is a surprise. I'm in. No rush as device performs great stock. I will make sure to know the ins and outs of Samsung Methods before.Taking that step.

IM sure you will love the device though. It has really impressed me with its overall performance, fluid UI, and great battery life. Keep us posted once you receive yours.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] juvenile43:
Went through 4 infinitys myself 2 I opened in the store and said no way. Also had a prime. The note runs circles around the infinity. IMHO. Its nice to have something so smooth.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] Magnesus:
If newer Transformers have the same I/O issues as TF101 has, I would avoid them at all cost. My TF101 is good and all until you start to use browser for more things than opening one page at a time or try to do anything that involves saving to SD card or internal flash (updating apps, saving changes in PDF etc) - then it's hell, it can hang for even a minute sometimes. And from tests some later TFs have even slower flash than TF101 (that was the main reason I stopped looking at Transformer as vaiable replacement for TF101, and the replacement of Wolfson audio chip with Realtec which I hate). I was even surprised my reports of Chrome bugs are ignored - but apparently mostly Asus tablets have those problems (Chrome on TF101 barely works unless you only have one tab open - then it works most of the time) - on Note 10.1 I didn't notice them when using 15 tabs at a time.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] junrider:
I think your right, I was searching to find the ways to root the note and I was like... Uhhhhhhh. Ill definately have to play with the tablet once I get it and so some research to get more knowledgeable about the tools used on this tablet. Hopefully in the next 60 days I can find a home here in the forum. I wonder if there is a way to get usb adapters for the infinity and the note to get my infinity dock to work with the note. Hehehe, kinda a waste I bought a dock almost 2 weeks ago and now its collecting dust.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] Nefariouss:
Depending on where you bought the dock why not just return it?
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] junrider:
Tigerdirect.com and when I ordered i didnt notice the no returns accepted... :(
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] twospirits:
^ Nice write up

TS
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] BarryH_GEG:
To give you guys an idea how bad this is, I posted the following chart in the comparison thread that's running on the TF700 forum. Someone said that the TF300 post-JB was faster than the Note 10.1 based on playing with a BB floor model. This chart shows how much faster the Note and a Teg3 One X are than the TF300 based on their respective scores on AndroBench which tests IO. Since the One X actually beat the Note in a couple of areas it's pretty safe to assume it's not Android or Nvidia/Teg3 that's behind Asus' IO issues. At least not on the TF300.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] kikoushi:
What's wrong with the SQL insert? 14% to 66% is a "huge" difference. It indicates how fast the insert queries are done into some kind of db, storage right? Or Teg 3 is just that good at that? :confused:
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] Magnesus:
Maybe Note 10.1 has different version of SQLite with some bug slowing down insert. Would be fun to check if there is an improvement in later firmwares.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] davp:
The Nexus 7 guys are also building a very long lag thread, looks like on i/o issues.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] demandarin:
I have nexus 7 also. I experience no lag what so ever. Even when I was.Completely stock it was the fastest thing out there. Now I'm stock rom running trinity kernel/motley. I seriously doubt its I/o issues. Out the box my nexus 7 downloaded and installed large amounts of apps in the background and I can still surf web or swipe through homescreens flawlessly. The 300/prime/infinity can't do that. Now those 3 have I/O issues ;) not Nexus 7. That lag thread is nothing major compared to how well the device performs. Even larger threads on that..lol

P.s. which I believe, based on Anandtech & IfixIt, Nexus 7 uses the faster Kingston memory. Those other tablets use hynix/slower.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] jsitta:
I just want to say that the Note's Multiscreen functionality is really sweet, but it only works on a handful of apps. You cannot just pick two apps and run them side by side. This was a big surprise for me, and a big letdown.

That said, I'm still really happy with my Note!
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] crystalstylez:
How is this a big surprise when it was stated in multiple reviews and videos showed this?
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] BarryH_GEG:
I have no idea. It’s one out of eleven tests so while a bit strange the rest of the comparison is really consistent so I just chalked it up to a fluke between the app and the SoC. Why don't one of you guys run AndroBench and see if you get the same resut. Maybe it's just something I have running on my device.

You realize the irony? You could get three N7's for the price of a TF700 and dock and the $199 device outperforms the $600 device. I wonder who was behind the change from Hynix to Kingston NAND for the N7. Asus or Google themselves when they saw the performance with Asus' go-to solution which up until now has been Hynix.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] knives of ice:
if you really want to see problems with the prime/infinity IO performance try reinstalling all your apps with Titanium backup. on the note it is seriously at least 5x faster doing something like this.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] demandarin:
Yep. I see the irony..lol. the real proof will come once Asus releases their. New lime of viva win8 tablets. One a full win8 version with 11.6in screen., 2gb of ram, latest atom processor. Also saw that it will use emmc memory. The rt version is 10.1 in., with tegra3, 2gb of ram,and also emmc memory. Exactly what brand of internal memory,I'm not sure. But it's likely Kingston. Not exactly sure. But both tablets are being advertised right this moment on Asus website. Their angle is productivity and multitasking. So I hope they get it right with win8. As it likely uses newer drivers.with all Asus tabs except nexus7, they were using old drivers/coding from years ago..lol. possible reason, other than Kingston memory,as to why N7 performs better icould be due to new drivers and software.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] shinzz:
I'm going to make a guess. It won't be as good as Samsung's in-house SSD they will be using for Series 5 W8 tablets ... or even other W8 from Lenovo, Toshiba, and heck.. even Acer (W700 for Acer even included thunderbolt port)

quote from Anandtech..

"Acer isn't talking about what specific storage is used inside, but storage performance should be significantly better than what you're used to from a conventional ARM based tablet with a single piece of NAND. Intel copied a bunch of 36MP images from a Nikon D800 over USB 3.0 to the W700's internal storage. Not only did the transfer go extremely quickly (think notebook quick, not tablet quick), but flipping through the 36MP JPEGs was as fast as you'd expect from a desktop."

Acer W510 should be getting similar storage as to W700.

So, basically... Asus might be the only one using cheap NAND eMMC storage.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] BarryH_GEG:
But you have to admit their devices are pretty. ;)
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] shinzz:
Haha, not after every device after that... "device I shall not name".... looks pretty much like that "device I shall not name", but with ugly plastic strip covering half of the backplate. =P
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] aimfire72:
I have both and can honestly say that overall, the Note is the better device. Long story short, I got a free Infinity because when I went to exchange the first one because of screen issues, the store screwed up, I got an exchange AND a full refund, lol.

But even with the TF700 being free, I still went out and got the Note. I think that says a lot right there.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] aimfire72:
All excellent points, thanks for the write-up.

I should mention that I plan on keeping the TF700 just because the dock is awesome. I already had a TF201 dock, so was no extra expense for me. I'll use the Note for most everyday stuff, and the TF700 for when I need to do heavy typing like with spreadsheets, etc.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] Magnesus:
You have full HD lecture videos?
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] TheWerewolf:
I was an early Transformer Prime owner. I now have a Note 10.1.

I still have the Prime because when I bought it, Asus explicitly refused any returns. Defective devices could only be repaired or replaced. I, foolishtly, signed a waver giving up my right to return it.

I had the GPS and WiFi issues. GPS completely unusable. WiFi iffy but usable. BT seemed ok. Oddly, didn't have the crashing and slow browser problems some have mentioned - but I just may be more tolerant of that.

The Infinity does fix most of the issues I've had... but since I couldn't return the Prime, I wasn't just going to go and buy the next one up. I draw and sketch, and I like to take notes with a pen. The Galaxy Note 10.1 was a no brainer.

The GPS on the Note is frighteningly good. Seriously - when Asus said they don't consider their GPS to be 'commercial grade' the Note is the tablet that shows them what 'retail GPS' quality is.

I regret my purchase of the Prime regularly - I do not regret the Note at all.

That being said, there are a few things the Prime (and I assume the Infinity) actually does better.

1. The Prime's support for external storage is significantly better than the Note. I can plug external NTFS hard drives into the Prime and they show up correctly. I can copy files from and to the hard drive easily. The Note doesn't seem to handle NTFS our of the box.

2. Transformer dock. Sorry - it's awesome. Besides the keyboard and extra battery life - you can run heftier USB devices off the USB port on the dock.

3. Unexpected USB device support. For example, you can plug many USB ethernet ports into the Prime and they work. Admittedly, not a lot of USB devices most people would need - but it's a nice feature.

4. Cleaner system. I like a lot of the features Samsung added - their version of the Mail client is excellent. But they also replaced some things that now aren't as good. On the other hand - multtasking and multiscreen on the Note.. hard to argue that one.

5. Samsung tries too be a bit too "Apple" in the way they approach accessories. Why does the Note docks not support USB and video out right on the dock?

6. What's up with the power supply on the Note? It's 5V@2.1A, yet when I try to charge it with other chargers with the same specs, it doesn't work.

7. Prime gets 11h of continuous use. 17h with dock. Note is more like 8. And you can't use external batteries to recharge because of (6)...
[Galaxy Note 10.1 General] HoushaSen:
Most video are not. But I deal with medical imaging so high resolution is extremely important part and some ebooks have those. But you are correct, lecture videos are generally lower resolution in fact not even 720p... its probably like 480p.