yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Microsoft Surface] ohgood:
post christmas conversation....

frank : hey joe, hows that surface thing you got for half my ipad?

joe: its great! perfect hinge, nice keyboard, some games, pretty display!

frank: did it replace that old laptop like you thought it would?

joe: no , it doesn't have office like they said it would (that's the I pad priced model) , and the app store hasn't taken off , and it can't run any of my old xp apps I paid for...

frank: wtf joe!

joe: ya, (sigh) but it was 1/2 the price of your ipad

frank: 1/2 of a good thing baby!

both: scrolling around on bestbuy and macrumours wondering when the next big thing is coming....
[Microsoft Surface] ka-la:
How about that:

frank: hey joe, hows that new surface going

joe: its doing good, the magnesium body and gorilla glass 2 makes it a duff product, my kid accidentally dropped it while there was party, nothing happened.

frank: Oh, I had same thing, expect mine screen totally broke and I have to get a new one now. (surfing Microsoft website)
[Microsoft Surface] ohgood:
the drop tests (when its available) will be interesting, yes. past results with gorilla glass should be typical.
[Microsoft Surface] ka-la:
Gorilla Glass 2 is much better :)
[Microsoft Surface] ohgood:
oh wow !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZMnfbNRKvg
[Microsoft Surface] alen_gh:
What is the price of BMW 7 serie and what is the price of AUDI 5 full options ... ? Witch one is better ? It should be the same comparing MS and Apple ... It's stupid to compare.. Realy depend on what mecanics is in both ... lol ... ;)
[Microsoft Surface] r3stor3:
In my opinion Windows RT will be priced around IPad price an pro same as 11 inch Macbook air. Just watch the design and the materials used an you will know what Ms wants from this products. They want to stop apple's domination in tablet market.

Sent from my LG Optimus Black
[Microsoft Surface] ohgood:
won't succeed at those prices.

ipad- $500 apps, accessories, developers

w8pad- $500 non of the above

easy choice for most folks
[Microsoft Surface] Greywolf_Ghost:
Want to use USB with that iPad? Oh yea right...no USB port.......requires a $40 add on.........Surface built in.

Want to use an SD Card with that iPad? Oh yea right no SD slot.....requires another $40 add on.....Surface built in.

Cause even though the Display is sweet.....Apple will kill you in the price of add ons that come built into Surface.

Plus it looks awesome to have something dangle from the bottom adding to the risk of the connection port being damaged.

However that is just my opinion.
[Microsoft Surface] ohgood:
this may be the very reason I've never seen anyone using a dongle on an ipad, or it may be they just don't -want- that dongle. no idea.

the built ins are a plus for surface, but I can't see someone forgetting about the established ipad app store, accessories, and developers to gain a sdcard slot.
[Microsoft Surface] redmatt:
but at the same time 500k apps is daunting as everyone knows 450k of those are useless, meaningless garbage. Hopefully MS bringing a new look and function will help people realize how ridiculous volume as a selling point is over quality.

this is apple's excuse as to why Mac computers are ridiculously overprices to begin with, so i hope MS sticks it to Apple and people stop drinking the kool-aid for no reason other than 'it is made by apple'
[Microsoft Surface] ohgood:
hmm, so , what you're saying g is.... apples 10% of total apps (50000 or so) are very high quality, whereas all of Microsoft apps are? hmmm

and a Sony or alien ware machine with similar specs to a Macintosh is always cheaper? hmmm again

I don't know man, that's a pretty hard sell
[Microsoft Surface] Chillingly Based:
Windows RT:

access to the most robust office suite on the planet

Windows Driver Model, allowing them to plug in any pheriperal in existence and have it work instantly

There's pros and cons on both sides
[Microsoft Surface] Greywolf_Ghost:
My personal thought is no matter what the device, it's all about what you want to do. What your needs are that will tell you a device is worth it's sticker price.

iPad is a good device no doubt, however I watched a friend become ever so frustrated with it as she wanted it to be like a mobile PC. Which is why I can't see the lack of ports on an iPad as a good thing. If just surfing/reading and normal everyday games with multimedia then yes iPad.

If your wanting mobile PC use (usb, sd slot) RT and I would say also some of the Android Tabs. The same friend gave here iPad to her son and got an Android tablet and now she is happy as her tablet and mouse fit in her bag and she is good to go.

I am sure if a Surface was available she would have grabbed it, as she is most comfortable in Windows. Plus when she saw the Surface she said she wishes it was ready when she went shopping.

For me I just want to replace my netbook with something Windows, that will have better battery life then I have now, and the addition of touch!!!! All with a UI I already know.

For me it's a comfort thing, but no matter what, it is all what a person wants in the end that will say what device they go with.
[Microsoft Surface] ka-la:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/16/3...urface-pricing-devices-and-services-interview and down we go...
[Microsoft Surface] e.mote:
From the Ballmer interview, it sounds like Surface RT will go for $300. That'll make it competive against the KF9 HD, and have a bit of a price edge on iPad2.

At $300, S.RT won't make a big splash as it would at $200, but RT isn't ready, and it's a limited launch anyway.

Either way, it's pretty much a given that MS will take a loss for this first launch, just as it did for XBox. S.RT is not going to sell at $400-500, not with just a handful of apps. At $300, MS will move a few RT boxes. Enough to get foothold, but not enough to scare anybody. It's an extended process.
[Microsoft Surface] ohgood:
Microsoft is giving every blue badge a wp8 phone, a surface, and a w8 PC. gotta get some people using it somehow I guess. will they be counted as sales?
[Microsoft Surface] ka-la:
So you are assuming that the 300 goes for rt on 700 800 for pro version. I actually think that the RT will be more like 400-500 actually.

There isn't much to go until we see the release so lets see, but for 300 I would definitely get one also.To be quite honest, for 500 I would not buy it. I am an Microsoft fan and all but for that price even I would go for iPad. 500 would be quite out of my price range tho so I would go for iPad 2. But if the 300 surface can make it, I'll be one to buy one and recommend it to my friends also.

But assuming that if the RT is 300 and pro 700 800... seems kind of low actually. Lets be honest, Pro is Ultrabook specification device, a totally awesome screen, digital ink and so on. I would bet not below 1000 makes it to Pro.

Also if you noticed ballmer in its original article does not mention specifically surface prices at all but windows 8 devices in general. So 300 might be some really cheapo Samsung win8rt tablet.

As 200 sounded too good, 300 doesn't sounds much more realistic either. It will be more like 400-500 as I previously stated.
[Microsoft Surface] Greywolf_Ghost:
Price points between $300-$800

Ballmer Hints at Price

I don't think I will see myself pay more then $375 or $400 for a Surface RT. I don't think I could see paying more then I paid for for the system in my bedroom. Even thought it is a Nettop PC Atom powered with 4 Gig Ram. It is not a game machine ( did ok with Wow on low settings), but handles HD video well.

I guess it all hinges on what I feel when I get one in my hands.

My feeling is the arm RT battery life will be better then the Intel Pro. Now I only base that on use of an Intel Atom Netbook vs my HTC Radar. My Netbook can not make the 5 hour bus trip vs my Radar which can and have a little left to make a call or two when I get home.
[Microsoft Surface] e.mote:
Here's another indication that Surf RT will launch at $199: The launch will be at midnight.

Usually a midnight launch is reserved for products with high demand that can get people to line-up for it, and the timing is to add to the buzz. Let's face it, nobody is going to line up for Surf.RT at $400, or even $300. But for $200, there's a decent chance some peeps will jump.

As to the "but Ballmer sez its gonna be $300 min" beeswax, Ballmer has been a salesman for longer than most peeps here have been alive (truth), and he's too savvy to show his hand before it's time--assuming, of course, that he really wants RT to make a big splash, and want to maximize launch buzz for it.

Then again, the flip side could well be true, that MS is so embarrassed of Surf.RT's dated specs and uncompetitive ($400) price that it's sneaking the tab out by midnight, hoping nobody would notice.

My money is 50-50 on either $200 or $300, if Ballmer wants to push RT sales. If RT is a lost cause for this iteration (coz it's not ready), then Ballmer will ditch sales to build the Surface brand, which would probably mean $400. But we've already seen this story played out before, haven't we?

>My feeling is the arm RT battery life will be better then the Intel Pro

The question is whether WinRT (ARM) tablets will have a longer batt life than Intel Clover Trail. Per the latest Anandtech review of the Motorola Razor i (w/ Medfield, or single-core version of Clover Trail) against the Razor M (w/ dual-core Snapdragon), the Intel came out ahead in battery life.

The next Atom rev will be Silvermont, with quad-core, 22nm, out-of-order pipelining, and Intel's own GPU (instead of the current PowerVR). Perf/watt will increase.

What this means is that Win-on-ARM is not a lock. It depends on how hard MS will work to make RT succeed. Whether Surf.RT will be lowballed to $199 will reveal MS' intent.
[Microsoft Surface] ka-la:
my current bet is on 300, http://etips.dummies.com/contest.asp?sid=QV79R7DE4TTV29SA5A5Y&id=149 Approximate Retail Value: $350.00 USD with two books, exclude books and you get 300, would be sweet spot for me.

Also you are talking that no one will notice if they launch at midnight, even I know there are many, I mean many surface ads around the US. Not sure what you mean there...
[Microsoft Surface] sohamssd:
I completely agree with you.
[Microsoft Surface] nba1341:
I am hoping for $300 max. I'll jump on it right away for that.

Kind of wished the pro version was launching sooner
[Microsoft Surface] nuprotocol:
Yep. Articles are popping up all over the web about this possible pricing.

http://www.pc-tablet.com/7787-microsoft-surface-rt-price-16gb-surface-rt-priced-299/

If so, I'll line up at my local MS Store to buy one. lol
[Microsoft Surface] epagib:
My guess is that Microsoft won't decide on the price until they have an idea of how much Apple is going to sell iPad mini at.

Surface RT must undercut the iPad mini to have a successful launch imho.

Sent from a SYNERGIZED GalaxySIII
[Microsoft Surface] ohgood:
links please? I haven't seen any yet .
[Microsoft Surface] ka-la:
http://www.neowin.net/news/game-on-microsoft-unleashes-a-flood-of-surface-banner-ads-in-us this site had many many articles about surface ads spotted in US.

Also I got good feeling about RT prices considering you can get 32gb acer with intel atom for 499 :) seems like "one rt for me please"
[Microsoft Surface] Virtue94:
Apparently there's word going around that the RT might be $400. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2410766,00.asp I think I might have to bow out at that price; as a poor college kid, I can't afford anything higher than $300.
[Microsoft Surface] e.mote:
Nah, PCMag is quoting the same analyst every other blog is quoting. Dude is using BOM cost as a basis, the assumption being that MS won't sell Surf.RT under cost. Obviously, if that happens, Surf.RT will be $400-500 minimum.

The $200-300 rumor is based on the reasoning that MS will subsidize the price as the cost of creating a new market for RT, because there isn't one. And if RT tab prices are just slightly under Intel Atom's prices, there won't be one. There has to be a clear-cut price difference for people to buy in. If MS prices its Surface tablets conventionally, around $500-600, it can kiss the RT platform goodbye, at least for this cycle.

Perhaps the hope is that Win8 will catch on, and will engender a wave of Metro apps (which will also run on RT), that will help make RT palatable for next cycle. It'd be risky bet, because it means another year will go by for iPad (and cheap Androids) to be further entrenched.

It comes down to Ballmer. His track record is very conventional, and if it weren't for the many debacles (Zune, Kin, Stinger, MS Tablet PC, Win Mobile, etc etc) MS suffered, I'd bet on a conventional pricing. But hopefully those earlier disasters will be an eye-opening experience for the dude.

Not too much longer to find out. A couple of weeks. Even if Surf.RT were to be priced at $199, I wouldn't be jumping for joy. There'll be very few software for it, Office aside, and early adopters will basically be paying beta testers.
[Microsoft Surface] ka-la:
I use windows 8 every day and besides graphics drivers theres no programs I have installed on my computer (7zip maybe is the one im going to miss) . And if there's something I need I can create it with Visual Studio myself. My tool is pretty much office and web browser, sometimes windows live but for me the if it would be 200 I would sure be jumping for joy.
[Microsoft Surface] e.mote:
>And if there's something I need I can create it with Visual Studio myself

Good for you as a dev, but the goal is to sell to ordinary people, who'll need software to use the new hardware with.

Buyers of RT boxes will be severely gimped on software selection, basically whatever's available at launch. Same applies to Win8 x86 users, but they can fall back on legacy (non-touch) apps & games. It will take months, if not years, for Metro software base to build up.

That's the fallacy of thinking that RT boxes can be priced comparable to x86 boxes. The software ain't there. You'll be limited to basically Office, web browsing, and consuming online media (there isn't enough storage space for offline content anyhow). But if these activities fit your needs, then the iPad/Android tabs would be better, since they're cheaper, lighter, more portable, and with more apps.

$199 for Surf.RT isn't really a deal when you look at it from the (lack of) software side. But it's the one factor that will help push boxes out the door to speed up adoption, and thereby helping to create a RT platform.
[Microsoft Surface] dragonide:
If they'll sell Surface RT in the 200-300$ range I'll buy one of them.

Low range Android tablets suck ... I tried so many of them and they feel like a toy.
[Microsoft Surface] yumms:
RT devices will be sold at stores next year.

http://www.neowin.net/news/surface-to-be-sold-at-major-retailers-early-next-year
[Microsoft Surface] ka-la:
Weird thing Asus prices its Vivio Tab RT 599$ 32GB while you can get Acer W510 with atom for same price which can also run all existing Windows applications. What are they thinking I wonder...

EDIT: or was the acer 100$ cheaper....
[Microsoft Surface] e.mote:
The Acer W510 was supposed to start at $500 for 32GB, but I only see the 64GB ($600) on sale. No surprise, as Win8 takes 20GB for itself right off, and will eat the whole 32GB just for itself, with SxS growing over time. Win8 is not usable in 32GB systems, even for light work; you need at least 64GB.

That MS hasn't done any weight reduction on Win8's footprint, given that it has to fit onto limited flash storage, highlights the WIP nature of Win8. Intel CEO said same. Win RT looks to be likewise unoptimized, as the Samsung RT tab shown at IFA revealed only 20GB remaining from a 32GB allotment. For Win8/RT tabs to get cheaper, Win8 will need to go on a serious diet to be usable on 16GB devices; RT will need to do it in 8GB.

The high pricing (for both RT and Win8 product announcements) is normal. OEMs have no idea which hybrid form factor will work, or if any will work at all, so they are trialing various hybrid types--slider, fold-over, twist-flip, easel-flip, detachable, dual-sided screen--to see what users will buy. The products announced are intended to be sold in limited volume, and basically be trialware, until OEMs can figure it out. So, not only is the OS a WIP, the hardware is WIP as well.

This is where MS deviates from the normal OEM strategy. The Surface keyboard cover looks to be the most promising of the hybrid form factors, as it retains the tablet's light weight and portability. That, and unlike OEMs, MS has an incentive to push RT adoption, so I expect Surf.RT will be priced aggressively. How aggressive, we'll find out.

Now you see why Surface is needed, because if it were left to OEMs, Win RT would fail. It's not in their self-interest to push the platform.

If Ballmer ***** up (again) and prices Surf.RT at $500, you can expect his ouster in the near future, as RT gets flushed down the drain.

>RT devices will be sold at stores next year.

Selling RT boxes in normal retail outlets would be a bad idea at this point, as consumers need to be educated that RT can't run legacy software, and that's best done with a trained sales staff at the point of purchase. That's the purpose of all the MS store pop-ups.
[Microsoft Surface] ka-la:
We really dont know how much space the RT will take since its not the same win32 subsystem, therefore it probably doesnt even have WinSxS (or doesnt need one)

Also there wont be 16gb RT tablets
[Microsoft Surface] e.mote:
As said, the Samsung RT tablet at IFA has 20GB remaining from 32GB. RT may or may not have SxS--nobody knows yet, as RT is still kept under wraps--but it has Office 2013, which will add to the footprint.

>Also there wont be 16gb RT tablets

Not for this generation. If RT is to compete with the $300 (and less) Android tabs as well as iPad Mini, it will have to downsize in the next rev, not only in storage, but also in size. The 7" segment will be a major market, and for now MS has no dog in that race.
[Microsoft Surface] aegixnova:
I've got Windows 8 installed on my old, old Acer W500 with 32GB drive. I manage pretty acceptably, but it's much easier with a 32GB SD card.

32GB is enough, but you won't be able to carelessly stock up on videos you're planning to watch over the year.

I'm definitely going to aim for a tablet with a 64GB+ SSD and SD card, though, because the faster CPU means I'll be able to go nuts with Photoshop and a few unintensive games.
[Microsoft Surface] e.mote:
>32GB is enough, but you won't be able to carelessly stock up on videos you're planning to watch over the year.

WinSxS keeps old copies of upgraded/patched files, and \Windows will continually grow over time, as patches get applied. People don't notice it on laptops with more space, but with only 12GB remaining from a fresh install, the OS will eat up much if not all of that space. I'd imagine MS will release a patch to disable SxS at some point for those with flash storage.

The main problem is still Win8 swallowing 20GB to start out. Going mobile means both power optimization + footprint reduction, and Win has only gotten one out of two. This is out of scope for a patch/SP, so we're (hopefully) looking at Win9.

Speaking of new rev, I'm expecting Win to move to a yearly cycle (as opposed to the old 3-yr cycle) to keep pace with iOS and Android.

>I'm definitely going to aim for a tablet with a 64GB+ SSD and SD card

I think buyer's remorse will play a larger role than usual, especially for early adopters who opt for high-end Win8 toys this Xmas. As Ballmer himself stated, Windows is undergoing a fundamental shift, which inevitably means quick iterations and rapid obsolescence for both software and hardware. People have gotten used to the long 2-3yr upgrade cycle for PCs, and I think some will be taken aback at how fast their purchase grow moldy once we move to a yearly cycle (or shorter).

Many things are changing with Windows, and Microsoft with it. Ballmer in his recent shareholder letter,

http://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar12/shareholder-letter/index.html

said that MS is a "devices and services" company. "Software," which MS was all about, wasn't even mentioned. The old practice of charging up-front for the OS and Office--MS' two cash cows--is getting more and more untenable. I expect both to morph into SaaS, perhaps with a freemium hook, eg getting "freebie" Office with the device you buy, with annual updates being a subscription. That is already started on WinRT. Windows (on x86) should follow suit at some point.
[Microsoft Surface] Miracle1980:
Hi guys, is it confirmed that the Surface Rt will be available from the 26 of October? How is it possible that 10 days before we don't know the real specifications and the price?

Inviato dal mio GT-I9100 con Tapatalk 2
[Microsoft Surface] aegixnova:
Absolutely confirmed! Microsoft are opening like 30+ temporary stores in the US just to maximise selling of the Surface RT!

We just don't know much about the Surface because Microsoft are really good at keeping secrets :D

I do hope a Surface Pro price is announced at the same time. It'd make my tablet choice a lot easier!

I'm also wondering why the Surface Pro is coming out 90 days later... I read one crazy rumour that it'd be using Haswell architecture. That would be incredible, but Haswell is due like March+. It's a bit unbelievable...

The delay is probably something like the VaporMg production process, or prevention of stepping on OEM toes, though.
[Microsoft Surface] e.mote:
Looks like Surface pricing will reportedly be revealed today (Tues). Place your bets. I have 50 cents on $199 and another $0.50 on $299.

http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/advertising-microsoft-surface-144525

"On the eve of the pricing and availability announcement for its Surface..."
[Microsoft Surface] sohamssd:
$5 on 399
[Microsoft Surface] ohgood:
$259.... ill betcha 10 cents.... and they're REALLY optimistic if this post is true that 3-5 million are bring built for launch.

http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-to-build-3-5-million-surface-tablets-this-quarter-report-7000005837/

then again, 10% of those may be Microsoft employees, and I'm very sure will be counted as "sales".

either way, it will be cool to see devices and sales numbers soon.
[Microsoft Surface] e.mote:
More signs that pricing will be announced today

http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/16/3510374/surface-advert-early-pre-order

>they're REALLY optimistic if this post is true that 3-5 million are bring built for launch...then again, 10% of those may be Microsoft employees

I'd assume it's an indication of aggressive pricing. As for freebies to MS employees, the number being batted around is 93,000.
[Microsoft Surface] nba1341:
$499 for 32 GB without touch cover.

$599 for 32 GB with touch cover.

$699 for 64GB with touch cover.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/16/microsoft-puts-a-price-on-surface-starts-at-499/
[Microsoft Surface] e.mote:
Ouch.
[Microsoft Surface] ka-la:
Ouch, indeed. I guess its one iPad for me.
[Microsoft Surface] nuprotocol:
wowwwwwwww. those prices are crazy. why wouldn't somebody wait on the Pro?
[Microsoft Surface] ka-la:
I would not mind RT, because of awesome battery life, but at that price, im not getting one (probably). Also the Pro will probably be much more expensive than this.

Even 399 would have been considereable price point for me but 499 is definately no buy
[Microsoft Surface] :
Bad, bad marketing strategy. Why did they keep it so secret then? The prize sucks, who the hell would buy a tablet for around 600 bucks?

Its not even THAT good. And its only the RT version, no x86 applications, bad hardware (not bad but surely not new).

Microsoft messed up again, imo.

What will other RT Tablets with better or same hardware cost? This + Windows 8 (+70$) + Additional Hardware, Keyboard etc. (+130$)?

Idiots.
[Microsoft Surface] nba1341:
The Samsung and Acer 64GB windows 8 tablets cost the same price so why would anybody settle for windows rt surface at this price?