yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Networking] kerman19:
I always reboot when toggling it on or off, standard practice.

It shouldn't - but the speed is definitely poorer when FD is 'off' on the phone. I'm not talking just one or two passes either, I did 10 with it on, and 10 with it off. Disabled the average was around 6mbps, and the average for it being enabled was 9.4 mbps.

Based on your first post, it would seem to imply that Three UK use a network controlled fast dormancy. As I stated originally FD on or off, my phone acts the same in how it swaps between DCH, FACH and PCH; it goes DCH -> 7 Seconds -> PCH, every single time.

My phone is an SGSIII

Phil
[Networking] MPKO:
Most probably three is using network controlled fast dormancy or then one other feature called direct cell state transition what basically means that network is able to move mobile directly from dch to pch. When ue is moved quickly enough to cell_pch state it can't do anymore fd. Unfortunately i don't know yet if sgs3 supports network controlled fd.

Your throughput figures are strange because fd should not affect to it at all... one possibility is that when fd is set off your ue is camping on different freq layer where is not so much capacity available. You could check this by using code *#*#0011#*#*.

Cheers
[Networking] kerman19:
I was lead to believe that the SGSIII supports NCFD, but I've yet to see an official source on that, so at this point who knows?!

They surprised me too, I did not expect any difference with FD on and FD off, because it made no difference to how my phone handled the different states, that still seemed entirely down to my network!

I've attached some screenshots for about 15 minutes ago. First 3 are FD off, last 3 are FD on.

Phil
[Networking] MPKO:
Thanks for this. Unfortunately i can't see if different layer is been used because service mode *#*#0011#*#* is not shoving the lcg info (local cell group) ,anyway i noticed that you don't use same host all the time in your speedtest sw. Can test again using maidenhead for example in both cases?

Cheers
[Networking] kerman19:
Maidenhead is 'Hosted by XILO' - it just alternates the header.

Phil
[Networking] MPKO:
Ok thanks.

I did similar test (20 repetitions and sgs2) in my location and i did not get any similar result than you. My location is really busy area and results are varying a lot all the time, but performance is similar with and without fd.

Cheers!
[Networking] namagakumon:
Hi everyone,

I would like to include two references that will better explain and give some light on fast dormancy and 3G resource allocation. Perhaps some of the questions people have right now have already been answered?

"Characterizing Radio Resource Allocation for 3G Networks"

Feng Qian et al.

ACM IMC'10

web.eecs.umich.edu/~fengqian/paper/3g_imc10.pdf

"TOP: Tail Optimization Protocol for Cellular Radio Resource Allocation"

Feng Qian et al.

IEEE ICNP'10

web.eecs.umich.edu/~zmao/Papers/ICNP2010.pdf

Always refer to the academic circle, folks. There are a lot of things happening there that won't see the light of day due to lack of interest or conflict with phone-service providers. Yet, they could have a bright future in communities like xda-developers.
[Networking] MPKO:
Or you can read 3gpp specification what is explaining this correctly or read this.

http://www.nokiasiemensnetworks.com...tworks-collaborates-with-qualcomm-to-optimize

---------- Post added at 10:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 PM ----------

Sorry i meant this.

http://www.google.fi/url?sa=t&sourc...64HoCQ&usg=AFQjCNErWrjgW5AiiiSEeJwmjKaWHcKgtQ
[Networking] namagakumon:
I'm sorry, but perhaps we are referring to different things here. The first paper linked above devises a mechanism to discover the RRC state machine, its parameters (including timers) and how they affect energy consumption and network-resource utilization. The second paper proceeds to explain how fast dormancy can be exploited to reduce the same resource utilization and energy consumption by using application hints to better conduct the state-machine transitions. Both works used real data traces from AT&T.

Supercurio's tool seems to set a system-wide FD timer, which is an improvement, but it's far from optimal. It may even lead to poor network resource utilization (e.g., a small timer threshold will lead to too many state changes, which will create unnecessary overheads at the RNC).

As far as I know, the 3GPP specification only limits itself how fast dormancy works in theory.
[Networking] MPKO:
You are right that 3gpp is only theory but it is also a reference what all the players should follow.

At&t network is not a good reference network in case of fd and how it should be implemented due to it limited network feature functionality like missing cell_pch state and missing dynamic rnc resource allocation.

Overhead is an issue in networks where pch state is not implemented. If pch state is applied and dynamic rnc resource allocation is used like explained in the second link in my earlier post, shorter network timers can be applied but at the same time, other capacity figures has to be carefully measured like cch load and paging load during implementation.

Most of the smartphones which are fd capable, have implement really short fd timers. (1-4s). This is good for battery but bad for enduser experience (latency), network capacity( signalling) etc.

I think it is good Idea to have system wide timer if it has some brain behind of it e.g don't use it if cell pch or network controlled fast dormany is used, or network timers(t1+t2) are already e.g. less than 8s.

Good thing is that soon we have more and more rel8 capably phones and we don't have to care anymore about the fd as we know it now :)
[Networking] Harsh:
@supercurio hey mate your app working only for samsung phones, but i guess u can make it work for more phones too. LG O2X also have hidden menu, in where there is possibility to check network states. Its hidden menu>modem>emergency mode.

So maybe you can look into it. thanks for your great work.
[Networking] fasst:
I was playing around with Voodoo RRC tool(on SG3) yesterday and it work like it should do.

This was with Omega v.1, based on stock XXBLG8

Today I upgraded to Omega v.12 based on stock XXBLG9.

Now I can't enable FD and the meny Show Radio States doesn't work anymore. It only shows the dialer but nothing more happens.

Anyone else with Omega v.12 and Voodoo RRC tool that can confirm having the same problem?
[Networking] ZombieSleeper:
Let me start first by saying thanks for making this video, it is really well explained.:good:

Seeing that Voodoo RRC tool shows only Network Id and Network Name on my Galaxy S2 with RR 2.6, I started looking for any other clues that would indicate if my network has FD enabled or not.

At first I e-mailed the network and asked them if it's enabled or not and the next day I got a call from them, but they didn't even know what FD is and tried to give me miscellaneous tips.

After that I downloaded the FastDormancy Toggle for i9300 by Gokhanmoral. This said that FD on my phone was enabled.

Found some info that said if FD is enabled on your device and you receive the multipdp and secril_fd-interface wake-locks then that means that your network has FD disabled and you should disable it too, and if you have FD disabled and you receive those wake-locks then your network has FD enabled and you should enable it too. I used BetterBatteryStats to check wake-locks.

Since I was getting both wake-locks with FD on, I disabled FD and now I only receive multipdp. I assume the battery life is somewhat improved having less wake-locks, the speed remained kinda the same.

Can anyone confirm if there is any truth to this? :fingers-crossed:
[Networking] shay2911:
I have SGS3 with LG8 firmware with ASOP apps . and for me the device went from Network to No network directly when I try to use fast dormancy

btw if it may help I'm using HyperGalaxy Rom version 0.6A (with ASOP apps instead of sammy)
[Networking] supercurio:
Excellent report, thanks!

The timers on this network seems pretty nicely tuned and you're right they're nearly optimal already.

Network stays as short as possible to DCH and is keeps the latency low with FACH then the post power and data efficient PCH mode: pretty nice!

However if the device stays endlessly in URA_PCH, Fast Dormancy (with switch to IDLE) might still be a good idea because PCH still consume roughly 2x more power than IDLE. It can make a difference during long periods of unused network.

If it's a Galaxy S III, for those timers I would set the FD timer to something between 40s and 1 minute ;)

On Samsung phones: something I didn't described before: FD timer only affect screen on behavior. When screen off, FD signal is sent between 1 and 2s after there's no data exchanged.

its interesting as typically when screen is off download are in bulk and you don't care about latency, so for you I think its good to enable FD with a long timer value.
[Networking] supercurio:
Something you can do is finding which PID to trace with ps, and then

adb shell strace -p 564654

With some rild implementations, strace just quits, with some others you're connected to it and see every io: when it reads network stats, when it places or remove wakelocks: very interesting.
[Networking] supercurio:
*#*#0011#*#* is the "escaped" form of *#0011#.

Both should give the same result, but if you call it programatically you have to use the escape version, as you can see in my source code
[Networking] supercurio:
Yes so as a clarification: On devices preceding Galaxy S III you don't need root or anything to disable Fast Dormancy, which is nice.

That's why the application still runs and gives you access to the tool in 1 tap even if you're not rooted as it's cool: just works!

This method is named FdormancyPreferences in RRC Tool source code.

On devices supporting this Fast Dormancy preference, its activation triggers or not the availability of the second NwkInfo one.

Sorry current RRC Tool UI is very crude and it could be presented in a more comprehensible way.

Also Erica noticed that the Fast Dormancy timer seems to be not honoured on pre-Galaxy S III devices, and activating Fast Dormancy seems enable a timer of 6-7 seconds screen on, and the same 1-2 seconds screen off as usual.
[Networking] supercurio:
You mean you have to type the escaped form manually in the dialer?

Dear sir, that's seems like a bug in dialer or RIL implementation you have on your phone :p

The general rule is that If you're able to spot a difference between FD activated or not, it means the network support Fast Dormancy.

However, as Erica explain in the video if the network tries to be smart and not just switch to IDLE or PCH after receiving the FD signal, it will cause issues as GSM Association specify that a phone should wait until it notices the FD signal has been taken into account.

That's why some phones have battery issues, as RIL will place a wakelock until the network complied with the FD request.

Note that there's a side-effect of RRC Tool method to apply without rebooting:

an infinite wakelock can appear in betterbattery stats, even after disabling (effectively) Fast Dormancy.

It seems it's just a wakelock counter glitch and doesn't prevent the phone to enter sleep.
[Networking] supercurio:
Congrats, that's a very well written and accurate interpretation of the knowledge shared in Erica's videos!
[Networking] supercurio:
Not really GSM but HSPA/HSPA+ networks.

Precisely: if you disable 3G and use only GSM (2G only) it won't apply
[Networking] supercurio:
Nice report: Even when enabling FD your network never switches to IDLE ?
[Networking] supercurio:
Nexus S doesn't implement Service Mode.

Today's app show nothing when it detects no ability available (like ServiceMode or changing FD status)
[Networking] supercurio:
The speedtest difference is very strange.

I wonder if it's a glitch in the measurement process (bad timer/state interactions with the app measurement timing) or something real.

Based on GSM Association recommendations and what I know from Samsung RIL implementation, there is really nothing that should justify a difference in network burst rates.

Could you try to complete another test manually, like by downloading a file and reading the value by yourself? (in an app like SystemPanel)

If the difference in performance is confirmed, there's a serious bug somewhere (network or RIL) that need to be analysed and reported.
[Networking] supercurio:
Yeah and on Samsung phones at least (I didn't studied others, sorry) this implementation is very basic. Read Linux network interface statistics each second: if it didn't changed, increase timer count, then when count == timer configured send FD signal.

It's not trying to optimize for any kind of usage like if the transfers ongoing were a bulk programmed update, or an interactive usage like chat or.. well its just as basic as it gets. The only benefit compared to network-controled timers is the screen ON/OFF distinction.

What you describe is very interesting.

Would you have a link to new GSM Association best practices or standard description, or documents detailing UE/Baseband implementations?

Erica and I had to scratch a lot to get something allowing to draw consistent conclusions, but there's no doubt we scratched the surface only about the new implementation you described.

Also, what Erica calls smart timers to describe AT&T network behaviour in her market: timers changing dynamically depending on supposed various conditions like time of the day, data usage might fit better with the new model you explain here.

For people who get issues, why this was discussed to death in forums (otherwise nobody would care) seems because AT&T implement not the same FD as Samsung RIL.

As a result, Samsung RIL expect network RRC states changes and prevent CPU & modem to sleep during this time.
[Networking] supercurio:
There's no gain removing ServiceMode from a ROM.

I would suggest that you ask to the ROM author to put it back.
[Networking] supercurio:
My app detects compatible ways to enable / disable FD and make them available to you if confirmed, via fast dormancy preference or network info database.

Its should be safe because of how it's written and will not modify an unsupported system.

Its possible the custom ROM breaks the default behavior and that files expected are missing.

Gokhanmoral app is closed source so I can't tell what it does precisely nor if it's safe to use in which conditions / device, working or not, well I just don't know.
[Networking] supercurio:
Sometimes (but rarely) RIL doesn't restart correctly and a reboot might be required to get the radio network back.
[Networking] MPKO:
Hi Supercurio,

One comment related to cell/ura_pch state. firstly, it is almost impossible to measure the actual value of the "T3" timer due to fact that timer is always restarted when Mobile is changing a cell or URA area and cell_update message is triggered by the UE. Normally T3 timer can be something between 3-29min.

Also if UE is moved successfully to cell/Ura_pch state, FD can't be triggered by the UE due to fact that there is no more physical channels and resources allocated other than paging channel in air interface.

If we compare the power consumption of idle and cell/ura_pch state in static and good radio conditions the power consumption of these two state is almost identical (if network is optimized and PCH feature is fully implemented). Cell_pch state can consume more power in situation where Mobile is continiusly on move or on cell edge where it is "pingponging" between two or more cells all the time and cell_update message has to be sent every time.

Cheers

---------- Post added at 09:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 AM ----------

In some networks, operators have asked Samsung to disable their FD implementation from operator sold UEs. Don't know how they are doing this in practice, but I guess they have implemented a MCC/MNC list in the UE which is used to check if FD is allowed or not.

Cheers

---------- Post added at 10:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 AM ----------

Rel8 Fast Dormancy standard is going to be the first paper which gives all the main rules for Mobile manufactures how the implementation should be done in practice. At the moment all the players are basically implementing whatever they want, which makes things a bit difficult for operators. You can google Rel8 Fast dormancy and you should find the information what you are looking for.

I'm surprised to hear that At&t has already implemented "smart timers". I know that all network vendors are working to implement this, but I did not know that the network vendor of At&t has it already working. Idea of this feature is to use longer timers in network conditions where there is no network capacity limitations to be able to give a better end user experience. Also, operator is able to define a specific list of UE brands and map a network parameters only for them to avoid e.g. fast dormancy or some other non wanted UE behavior.

Cheers
[Networking] ZombieSleeper:
I was not questioning your app in any way, I was just curious about this statement "Found some info that said if FD is enabled on your device and you receive the multipdp and secril_fd-interface wake-locks then that means that your network has FD disabled and you should disable it too, and if you have FD disabled and you receive those wake-locks then your network has FD enabled and you should enable it too."
[Networking] webfrm:
Also not seeing IDLE

Yeah I haven't seen an IDLE state at work (must be the whole working in the basement thing) and it keeps switching between DCH and PCH about every 8 seconds. However at home (above ground) I seem to get all states (DCH, FACH, PCH) working when enabled except IDLE (though mine reports a PCH_Sleep state occasionally so might be equivalent to IDLE) when i enable the Fast Dormancy. Each state takes about 8 seconds to go through before I hit PCH or PCH_Sleep (when at home) so its looking good.
[Networking] RivaultUser:
Erica, you're sooo beautifullll^^:fingers-crossed:
[Networking] cornholio_rules:
Please, make it compatible with Cyanogenmod.
[Networking] ianbbaa:
Orange Slovakia - GALAXY NOTE N-7000

WCDMA 2100 BAND 1

Service menu shows FD enabled.

I was testing with ServiceMode on, and installing apps from playstore via Internet Explorer on my PC.

I can see only DCH and IDLE most of the time. (lets say ALL the time)

After maybe IDLE for 1 minute, i send app from playstore - right after click OK to install app, it shows IDLE_CCCH for just half a second and switches to DCH emediatelly and phone shows installing app. After app being installed - it takes various times mostly about 8-10secs to switch to IDLE. (once or maybe twice it was about 30secs to IDLE).

Again, phone IDLE, send email from web interface to my gmail account - after email send, just a second to DCH for 10secs....than to IDLE...within those 10 secs email arrived...i am back to IDLE.

I saw in some 60min of playing with FD states on ServiceMenu i saw also other states PCH and maybe FACH but they appeared only very shortly and never appeared again when i tested as i mentioned above via playstore for explorer on PC.

When i saw first this article about FD, i was on paranoid android which is CM based so Samsung ServiceMenu and FD apps from this post doesnt work. My battery life was pretty good with only on 3G network. I switched to CleanNote 5 just 2 days ago so i was very curious about this. On CleanNote right now constantly 3G on battery looks really good, id say better than Paranoid.
[Networking] sicwan:
is there anyway to set things back to the way it was before the VooDoo RRC tool was run?

When i first ran it, it said FD was enabled, w/ a timer of 0:sec. I want to go back to that for testing, but every time I do, the tikbox gets unchecked and FD gets disabled. I have an AT&T S3 rooted
[Networking] supercurio:
Concretely, fast dormancy timer at zero is the same as fast dormancy disabled for Samsung phones.

For AT&T network on Galaxy S III FD status I recommend is disabled
[Networking] lightpsycho:
Never going to IDLE

Hello,

I have a SGH-T999V S3 on Videotron (Canadian Carrier based in Quebec). We're talking about an HSPA+ DualCell (DC) network. I actually work for the company so I was easily able to ask one of my contacts to confirm that we are using NCFD.

When I select apply in RRC tool and check the RRC state, it briefly shows IDLE for 2-3 seconds, then goes in DCH, then IDLE again for the same amount of time, then CONN and DCH right after for, I dunno, 5 seconds, and then falls back to CPCH (which seems to be its "idle" state). Here's a screenshot of the servicemode's screen when there is no network activity:

From what I understand, in the case of a network using NCFD policy, whatever you do on the UE, you will not be able to modify anything related to FD behavior as this is entirely controled at RNC-level. Am I right?
[Networking] hyperbolic:
This is the code for the service mode:

*#*#197328640#*#*

When you'r in the Service mode screen, hit: Debug screen->Basic Information and here you go, service mode.

Enjoy.

---------- Post added at 02:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:10 PM ----------

Hi,

I have SGS2, Wanam 12.3 Siyah 3.5.2.

If FD is on or OFF( doesn't matter), I only see DCH and after that IDLE.

So that means my network doesn't support FD right ?
[Networking] kevindd992002:
I'm using the latest stock S3 firmware and when I run voodoo rrc and tap show radio states, it just directs me to the dialer. What do I need to do to access the radio states screen?
[Networking] supercurio:
Samsung Galaxy S III dialer has a bug that makes it ignore the secret codes at first launch.

Hit back, tap the button again and it should work.
[Networking] kevindd992002:
But it didn't? I tried multiple times already.
[Networking] supercurio:
I don't know, maybe Samsung broke Service Mode in a beta firmware.

"latest" is not accurate enough to allow an answer.
[Networking] kevindd992002:
Well, I have v. 4.0.4, is that enough info?
[Networking] orobin:
Hello

on galaxy note. Ics 4.0.4. Xxlrq rooted

Priver is in France : Freemobile

if i click on "show radio state" i go to phone dialer

with *#0011#.

If i try to click Call button i obtain an error :

Code mmi not recognized or comunication problem.

Do you think there is something to do to fix that ?

Thanks

olivier
[Networking] kevindd992002:
So I see this is a common problem of this program?
[Networking] lurbi:
I have not seen this document mentioned before:

http://www.gsma.com/newsroom/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/ts18v10tsgprdfastdormancybestpractices.pdf

Quit interesting ...

Regarding my case.

S Galaxy S3 on Three Austria

They seem to use network controlled fast dormancy.

I get kernel wakelocks when fast dormancy is enabled.

It seems that three austria does _NOT_ use PCH at all.

I get DCH -> FACH -> IDLE

I would *REALLY* like PCH!!!

But I guess if the network does not switch to it, I cannot do anything on the mobile (UE) to activate it.
[Networking] chantoine:
Hi,

On latest firmwares, *#0011# don't work and you've got to type :

*#*#0011#*#*

Hth
[Networking] kevindd992002:
What version is your "latest"?
[Networking] chantoine:
Don't know, the short code used to work with Samsung i tested in the past (even Bada ones) and with the Note i just got, i have to use the long one. Sorry for not having more details :)

Envoyé depuis mon GT-N7000 avec Tapatalk
[Networking] orobin:
I 've tried on my note, under ICS 4.0.4 (see above)

it works well.

Service mode is launching directly.

thanks for the tip.