yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] techno_hippyGuy:
So, from all of us that contacted the fcc, bbb, that law firm that won v710, etc... Over the weekend, anyone hear any results or statements made by these organizations?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] ponyboy82:
I'm curious about this as well. Is there anything new that we, as the community affected, should do?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] TheDiabolicaL1:
Any chance we can petition Google to pull the plug on Verizon's access to Android?

They only lock the bootloader to prevent access to the newest OS anyways, it has nothing to do with support of the device as much as it has to do with inhibiting your ability to take a perfectly capable device, and upgrading it yourself- why let YOU do that, when they could simply sell you a new phone.

My x2 is capable of running ICS, but they wouldn't have sold me the s3 if they hadn't encrypted the ****ing thing, and they know exactly what they're doing.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] martyzidek:
You guys now have root in your section of the site. But still go forward and I stand with you on this even though I'm on sprite.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] techno_hippyGuy:
We do have root, custom recovery, and a workaround for custom kernals (proof of concept). But this is more a battle of principle at this point. Yes we broke through, and that should be telling them their time is wasted. But at the same time, they refuse to give a good answer as to why they did this and will continue locking down our devices as long as they can. We're at the point, I think (from the feeling I've gotten from all the threads these past few days) where we are not just fighting for the SGS3, but for the openness of Android in general. The SGS3 has a massive launch, and it may just be big enough to bring attention to the meta questions here. We need to take advantage of that to ensure the freedom of our future devices.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] ponyboy82:
+1

In the past they've been known to close holes in OTA updates that were used for previous "exploit" methods. I can personally attest that if/when my unlimited data goes away, I will be more than happy to go to a different carrier since there will be very little keeping me with VZW.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] Boss428man:
I wrote a post on this on XDA, I strongly feel the angle we should have is that we have been miss sold our devices. They did not mention anywhere in any print either web or through sales channels that their phone was any different then the other Galaxy S3's. The just say they sell the Galaxy S3... and so we expect the same experience.. well the rest of the world has.

It is in print the differences from the international version so we know that. IE processor and network differences.. We have been miss sold and that compromises the Corporate and Customer trust relationship which is the truth and I feel the stronger argument. Thing is if we mess up brick it, it needs to be our fault. They are banking on how we mess up phones.. its the dishonest people that they are protecting themselves from and you can't blame them on that.. Anyway hope we get there!!!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] toddbw:
Thanks for the info and the links. I'm posting my complaints to the FCC and the BBB.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] neyenlives:
call me crazy, but isn't the FCC rule supposed to apply to "locking a device" in terms of network access, has never been intended to be anything at all related to the bootloader.......that is also causing a lot of confusion in some of the conversations i have seen where people were "told things" by Samsung via chat.....because the moment you mention "unlocking a device" they instantly assume you mean unlocking from the carrier to use on another carrier which has nothing to do with a bootloader.....even if you mention the bootloader....most people dont care nor think about that word, they focus in on the "unlocking device" part and still assume you are talking about carrier locking, not bootloader locking
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] techno_hippyGuy:
i dont think anyone knows for sure. I do know there's that law firm talked about in this thread that won a similar case with the moto v710, so seems to be legal precedent for unlocked bootloaders required by block c spectrum agreement.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] MichaelVash7886:
Now sammy is releasing a "dev" version with an unlocked bootloader for $600.....
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] Thalinor:
Updated OP 07/11/12
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] zaisaroni:
It's clearly in terms of network access, the FCC is about communication standards, licensing, and testing. Not software hacking and flashing. Bootloaders have nothing to do with the block c agreements. Claiming it is related is the biggest legal stretch since OJ got off the hook in the 90's.

They never misrepresented the phone, its marketed as a smartphone, not a smartphone without a signed and encrypted bootloader. Any Verizon customer who is surprised by this hasn't done their homework or is optimistic beyond reason.

Google blocking Verizon from using Android isn't exactly "open source", and VZW is the largest carrier with the most Android handsets and until the last few months had all the big devices.

Sent from my AT&T Galaxy SIII (SGH-i747)
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] neyenlives:
I agree.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] tekhna:
While I don't necessarily disagree with you, given how it's written, it's debatable. Enforcing it is the problem.

"Licensees offering service on spectrum subject to this section shall not deny, limit, or restrict the ability of their customers to use the devices and applications of their choice on the licensee’s C Block network,"

My bootloader-locked GS3 doesn't let me use root explorer or titanium backup or other root programs, which seems a pretty clear violation of the spirit of the regulations, even if Verizon would claim an exception. And is CM9 an "application of choice?" No clue there, but probably not.

Further:

"No licensee may disable features on handsets it provides to customers, to the extent such features are compliant with the licensee’s standards pursuant to paragraph (b)of this section, nor configure handsets it provides to prohibit use of such handsets on other providers’ networks."

We KNOW that the GS3 is sim-locked despite have GSM radios, so it's clearly in violation of that portion of the agreement. And I suppose you could argue that an unencrypted bootloader is a "feature" enjoyed by EVERY non-Verizon GS3.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] neh4pres:
I think I may shoot for a 1TB month using my 4g. Verizon you have not seen the abuse I can deliver! Time to stream HD porn!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] neyenlives:
I hate to be "that guy".....but....

most legal documents have a terms and definitions section, you can't take a couple paragraphs and copy paste them out of context and apply your logic to them...thats not productive, not being mean.....just saying.....i would have to look at the document myself to see if it indeed has those definitions, but I am willing to bet you somewhere in the official document there is a place that defines locked as being restricted to a carrier or something like that.....nowhere will you find any reference to a bootloader, not even indirectly.....

there is no part of the FCC rules that apply to bootloaders at all. The FCC could care less about bootloaders. All the emails from people here to the FCC trying to sound all BOSS and threatening Verizon with FCC claims are probably the stuff their lawyers use as punchlines for jokes when at the bar having a drink.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] Thalinor:
Hang in there... there will be a point to this after the break:

Example 1

http://www.xda-developers.com/xda-tv-2/your-warranty-is-not-void-xda-tv/

They say root voids your warranty too.

Example 2

People think TOS/EULA's are legal documents; THEY ARE NOT. You can not get brought up on civil or criminal charges for violating an EULA/TOS; they can only disconnect your service. There are criminal and civil laws that are also mirrored in most TOS/EULA's like copyright, patent, etc, but the EULA/TOS document itself is rubbish. For example, if you put CFW on your PS3, Sony can ban you and your PS3 from its network but they can not have you arrested or found civilly liable for violating the TOS/EULA. Now if you host CFW on a web server that includes programming code Sony has a legal license over, they you are violating an actual law regarding to copywright.

Example 3

Corporations are not above the law. I don't care if the Gizmodo reporter walked into Apple HQ, clubbed the security guard to death with an Apple "air" keyboard, then walked into the Apple secret lab and stole Steve Jobs frozen head out of the break room fridge, that does not give Apple corporation the legal right to do what they did. Apple went into his home with some secret gestapo men in black apple police using a fake search warrant, bribed the police department to hold the guy outside while they searched his place, took his electronics back to their company hq for their own examination, and then covered the whole thing up in the legal system and media. Civil rights and US criminal law should not take a back seat to corporate profits. This is not some conspiracy theory ****, this is god damn real life, yes that happened right before our very eyes, proving that Apple is now more powerful then our government. Wake up for fking christ sake before its too late.

I bring this up because it demonstrates that these giant company's try and act like they can write and enforce laws that do not exist and ignore laws that do. If you just open your eyes you will see that every aspect of our government has been bought [Super Pac?] and regardless of whether it is or is not legal for Verizon to be doing this, they are going to do it anyway because they have no respect for our government or its citizens. They bought that Block C bandwidth at a discount from taxpayers.

I am tired of typing the same things over and over again; its arguing with lemmings.

Lastly,

And if block C doesn't work...

Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA)

"Computer programs in the form of firmware that enable wireless telephone handsets to connect to a wireless telephone communication network, when circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of lawfully connecting to a wireless telephone communication network."

And now we have come full circle, where the following once again applies though this time in a different context:

http://www.xda-developers.com/xda-tv-2/your-warranty-is-not-void-xda-tv/

FYI. Motorola V710 Lawsuit. Look it up. Don't expect me to respond to you till you do.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] neyenlives:
You will have to understand if people here take no stock in the word of random Internet dude quoting things out of context without a law degree and defending the right to........ flash custom firmware to a phone? First World problems bro.

On a positive note, you certainly are persistent.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] chakra:
its funny how once you start really talking contract law, and not what the sheeple think is contract law, everyone gets all. Oh oK then dude, you dont know what your talking about, when actually its the other way around. LOL
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] neyenlives:
Yeah I'm on your side, didn't mean to come off negative. Lol
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] Karl:
OP i know you talked to EFF but i thought i would email them anyway cuz know they helped with iphone jail breaking when apple claimed access to there bootloader violated DMCA, i know verizon or sammy not using DMCA claim but EFF might have some great insight

Edit:

they emailed me back right away this is the response

Karl,

Thank you for alerting me to this. I'll look into it immediately.

Best,

Mark M. Jaycox

Legal Intake Coordinator

(415) 436-9333, Ext. 128
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] teamhurtado:
If I could double or triple thank you Thalinor, I would.

VZW is definitely pissed. Their short response to my BBB complaint clearly shows that we've annoyed the hell out of them on this matter. It may not help much, but I can forward you whatever pitiful responses VZW's sent through the BBB.

FYI, I had completely forgotten about this thread until XDA split the forums. You guys rock!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] MorphiousGX:
Count me in if it does! I'm beyond pissed!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] neyenlives:
why would the EFF need random internet persons to provide them info on Block C? am i the only one who think that sounds wrong?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] ddggttff3:
I cant wait to see where this goes.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] Karl:
negative much, why do lawyers cite cases and codes
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] neyenlives:
wait a minute....you find it completely reasonable that the EFF is asking random dude on the internet for Block C information when they have lawyers and staff?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] Karl:
when dont lawyers have someone else do their research
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] blackhand1001:
I have personally found that its easier to permanently brick a locked boot loader phone because it Much harder to restore the factory images.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] neyenlives:
correct, the EFF lawyers who have paid staff to do such things would more likely ask random internet guy for advice that they will then use to go to trial.....seriously bro....no, I'm on your side but one has to question such logic
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] Karl:
are you serious, there is nothing wrong with them asking essentially the plaintiff for info on the law he believed he had cause of action. when they asked for more info on block C im sure the were looking for a link or section of the fcc codes it was found under not just something like a handwritten document from some dude... and you think the EFF would not use due diligence regardless what info they asked the OP to provide...

its not like they would take word for word of what the OP said and put it in brief
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] troyzero:
I have to say, op's diligence is just plain awesome. Can't thank you enough for your effort in this. I don't know if it will do any good but it sure does feel nice knowing someone is fighting for our rights against the big corporation.

Maybe this doesn't go anywhere, but if more voices are needed I would happily throw mine into the mix.

I am flabbergasted by a company that is mad that we are using their product too much, the number of data abusers are heavily outweighed by those that use the absolute minimum, it is amazing.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] ljstella:
Any more updates from the OP on this?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] samuelhadams:
The balls on Verizon for locking the bootloader when nobody else did. I really didn't want to go with Verizon again for this very reason. I bought a Sprint S3 but the internet speeds were ****. So was somewhat forced back to Verizon. Blah!

Keep up the good fight!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] Thalinor:
Mark M. Jaycox

Legal Intake Coordinator

jaycox@eff.org

415.436.9333 x 128

Why don't you call him and ask him why?

Ask him if a John called at the beginning of last month.

Ask him if he FINALLY called John back on 07/24.

Ask him why he asked John to look up information on Block C?

Ask him if John said he was out of town for two weeks and had to get back to him.

When you are done you can come back here with your tail between your legs, admit you are an asshole, and

not one

god damn thing I have typed has been a fking lie. Go ahead, call him. Make my fking day. Report back here when you are done on what he has said. Maybe he is fking lazy; who knows. I am doing what I was asked to do by Mark. If you want to question it call him yourself.

I am busting my fking ass off here, spending my own god damn money (which I don't really have to waste on this) and my own time. Stay the fk out of this thread if you don't have anything to contribute. I am getting sick of fighting BS corporations on top of asshole internet trolls.

Since you seem to be a Verizon supporter...

http://money.cnn.com/2012/07/31/technology/verizon-tethering-apps/index.htm

Suck it. And by the way Google Wallet which Verizon has blocked is going to be ANOTHER lawsuit. Just like teathering apps, Verizon is blocking Google Wallet; allegedly because its own payment service is soon to be released. Doesn't matter why, Verizon is going to answer for that one in court too.

And by the way because you seem to want to mock me calling me an "internet" lawyer ...

"Verizon's spectrum holdings include a chunk called "C Block" spectrum, which the FCC singled out in its enforcement action. The rules governing those bands are especially tight, according to FCC officials. Carriers using other blocks of spectrum, such as AT&T, are not subject to the same openness obligations." (Source link above)

The Block C argument WON in court; you are once again WRONG. (See your other trolling post in this thread). You can swallow it now.

For the record, I am not going to quit... in fact I am just warming up.

Next is going to be a 60 second commercial in the NYC area showcasing Verizon's lies. It's going to have screen caps of Verizon saying its Samsung's fault for locking down the SGIII (as well as other Verizon lies and screw-ups), its going to point out the FCC ruling about Verizon blocking apps, Google Wallet, Share Everything ($50 for 1 GB), "Simplified pricing" scam, etc. Just wait, its going to be amazing. I am working on a Website now.

I am not even close to being done with Verizon. Hell I may even turn this into a profession.

That's the exact same person who I was transferred to when I called just over a month ago. I left VM and he finally called back on 07/24. He said he needed more information from me on Block C because he was "unable to find any sources on Verizon's agreement concerning Block C".

I have another call into him today and still waiting for him to call back.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] CaptnKeegs:
Really appreciate you doing this for us. Keep the updates coming :D
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] ddggttff3:
Thank you for taking your time, money, and energy into this Thalinor. I keep calling a VZW Relations Coordinator, after getting the standard "locked for security" letter, who has been nice enough to ignore my calls and voicemails for 3 weeks now. Guess I need to start calling more then 3 times a week. if anyone cares, I attached the letter.

Now, because block C states that a carrier can not limit applications on a device, and the letter CLEARLY says they block "unapproved software", couldn't that be a LEGAL battle in court?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] xsteven77x:
Absolutely LOVE you.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] Karl:
I've never got a letter .. if you get the chance try to getting in writing how to development s3 sammy going to sell has different security requirements that allow it to be unlocked/unapproved software and be on their network

And yes blocking of software is a block c violation unless done for valid reason that's allowed under c ...

Sent from my Galaxy S III using Forum Runner
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] ddggttff3:
if and when he calls back or answers I will ask that, and see if I can get a recording of the entire call. Would be GREAT to have his responses recorded. heres my questions.

Why is the bootloader locked? (expected answer, security)

Then why does every other carrier have it unlocked?

Has there ever been in the past a problem where a single phone caused "network interruption" or security concerns?

You announced a dev model, just like you did for the razr one year ago. There is still no razr dev model. will there ever be a sammy one?

if you claim security, then why sell a developer model in the first place that has a unlocked bootloader?

if the block C requirements say a carrier cant block apps, like you did with tethering, and your letter says the bootloader is locked for that reason, why are you violating the FCC terms?

anything I need to add here?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] neyenlives:
man, the nerd rage is strong here eh? Thalinor has to go out of his way to PM me to beg me to see his nerd spasm....obviously you are proud of yourself...lol

hey, I'm all in favor of it getting unlocked, but you guys need to direct your rage towards something worth fighting over....things that matter, like real life.....people, environment.....things that actually make a god damn difference

your response shows your level of maturity.....suck it? you're busting your ass? spending your money???? those are your words.....this is the way you expect to gain respect and something resembling coherent ideas?

listen, if you can rage on and talk like that, I have every right to respond in kind, but I won't do that here, because I'm bigger than that, and this is a damn bunch of kids arguing over a cell phone in which you lead this noble crusade.....and it's humorous at best and sadly true....first world problems man......you kids need to grow up

i wouldn't even be posting here if you hadn't gone out of your way to PM me and drag me, basically beg me to respond to your absolute red rage....so don't belly ache because someone who has a differing opinion or stance posts the contrary especially after you are begging for it

i wont be posting in this thread anymore Thalinor, no matter how many times you PM me begging me to get drawn back into it.....so you can run around like a spoiled brat screaming about your cellphone.....but seriously, lighten up, unplug, take a step back, and recognize you are way off the reservation here. Find something worth fighting for. Do some thing good. This is not good. Nobody cares outside of the cell phone nerd circle which we are a part of here. You aren't on a crusade to cure cancer or stop obesity, but those would be far far better things to spend such anger on....
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] Karl:
Your so wrong MRI machines run on block c frequency =}

Sent from my Galaxy S III using Forum Runner
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] Brenardo:
This is something worth fighting for. This is a prime example of being bullied by large cooperations. This shows how corrupt the country has become and how faking sorry people are for not standing up for what's right.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] sfobrien:
Well said.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] MorphiousGX:
Any updates?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] somerandomguy1:
Wow this is fantastic, keep up the good work!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] hesh.monster:
Atta boy ;)
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] TechBSwift:
I think the best letter I have read over the last couple of days was written by an attornery to the FCC about locked bootloader. I'm not sure if you have had the chance to read it but I will pm it to you. Maybe it could help.

---------- Post added at 10:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 PM ----------

sorry the doc is to big, here is the pdf document written by an attorney on XDA. He gave permission for all to use it to fight against Verizon

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uhjnqfx24cuygs3/dZ7rFvVBXx

This letter was professional written and has all the information you need to fight Verizon.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] millerd79:
He doesn't include the gs3 in his letter.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] ihavenewnike:
I was told by their secretary that they are really considering picking up the case.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] neh4pres:
That's great news!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] neyenlives:
ehem.... scuze me while i drop this heere, you have no case now Thalinor!

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=30274025&postcount=317
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] ihavenewnike:
Th point of the case was for this to happen. This is good news
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S III] ddggttff3:
ya, except this was not official... means vzw will KEEP locking bootloaders on future devices as well.