yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] travanx:
Did the developers really want this? Seems like normal users who are looking for stuff will have more trouble finding what they want. I would think the idea is to make it easy for a normal user to get around the site. Since developers know what they are doing.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] kellybrf:
I agree. hours after it launched it wasn't bad because it was actually original development, but even by the end of the day it had degraded into lots of rehashed stock roms. meanrom is fine and all, but it's far from original. meanwhile, last I noticed akop was still in the regular development subforum
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] EVOMIKE025:
Awesome idea!!
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] il Duce:
The normal user getting around the site isn't really a main concern, given this is a dev website. Mainly I just find this tedious and redundant. It also begs the question, why have a non-original dev section? Wouldn't these items then by default be non-development? The whole point of the dev section is to post original, or modified enough work, to be considered "new" or "developed". So if the things in this new section qualify, and the stuff in the old section doesn't, then of course we'd need to remove the old section entirely, and then, lol, be left with a dev section. My head, it spins...
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] dsEVOlve:
The way things are being divided up now I would think it is going to start turning into a headache for the mods because inevitably someone will argue that their stuff is just as original as another's so why isn't their ROM in the original section too. Egos will flare and yada yada yada....
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] il Duce:
Indeed, along with following which stickies go in which, etc. But honestly the moderators part (though it affects me directly) is apart from what I'm generally saying. Development is development, picking how "original" it is or not is just silly. It's development, unless somebody posted a deodexed ruu.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] SoraX64:
After thinking, I personally believe that it would be much better to just separate ROMs from mods, or Sense ROMs from non-Sense ROMs. That's where the biggest differences are.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] pstevep:
I haven't looked at the original development section here yet, been too busy with other things.

The point is to differentiate between what was cooked in a kitchen and what was actually developed and made from source. It does seem like a pain, but when you have 35 sense roms that essentially do the same thing, they all are just themed different, how is that original?

Now don't get me wrong, like duce I work on roms and have produced one. Yes it's going to be a little bit of kick to my pride when it's not in original dev. But in all honesty it probably shouldn't be, even though most of the mods were done by us.

There should typically be only one modified sense rom in original dev, and that would be the first one that was modified away from stock. In which case, and again I haven't looked in the section here yet, viperrom should be about it right now, because they were the first truly modified sense rom. I know this because I was going to write a news article about the first rom when it came out and I was in the section heavily.

It's not really that bad of a concept, it's just different, and it isn't going to make some people happy, we knew this going into it. But there are a lot of things that need to happen on this site that won't make people very happy.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] Leoisright:
Working from source doesn't mean original mod more then ruu. I work from source all the time and there are few differences between roms based on source. In fact, isn't ruu based on source too then?

The more I think about this, the worse the idea becomes. I say this because many mods derive in smali form which is then based on source. As far as I can tell htc has never released source for their software, only kernel. So the idea to have original based on source would be just seperating aosp and sense based. Then why? I mean really, in any given section there will be only a few aosp anyway.

Then you say using kitchen doesn't quantify it being original, there I beg to differ. Using kitchen is a small step. What about baksmali to change code? You gonna say that isn't original either.

Bottom line is the dev threads have become littered with non dev discussion. People posting questions that belong in general or other posts non-dev related. Tackle these issues first. But to make a blank statement saying kitchen roms are no better or original then source is crazy. As I recall, most great roms are sense based using kitchen to help port from other devices.

Leave it the way it was and help stop non dev related posting.

Sent from my ClassicJewel
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] pstevep:
Points you bring up are part of an initiative being worked on at the moment.

I never said all roms based from a kitchen weren't original. However look at most forums for sense phones have 30 sense roms that are essentially the same thing, just themed differently. The first modified sense rom usually will get the original development tag because it is original at that point. Same with aosp roms. There won't be 5 cm9 ports that all are just themed in a different manner. The point is to separate, innovative things from the non innovative. The kitchen was only brought up because there are a blue million kitchens out there, and there have been tons of users trying to present their rom as awesome when all they did was theme it with a kitchen. People editing smali are working deeper than even a lot of experienced users can. It creates more work for moderators to keep the forums organized. You can't honestly tell me that every sense rom needs to be considered original development.

And non dev discussion in dev threads, it's up to them dev how much off topic discussion they allow in their threads. If they want it stopped all they have to do is ask. Moderators don't live in every thread so we can't monitor everything all the time.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] Leoisright:
Thanks for clarifying it more.

Sounds like original dev thread will be only a few roms then. I do agree there are many of like roms out there. In the case of the lte, talking with evolution and flex helped spin off different ideas.

I suppose it really comes down to the mods and admins to tag original or not roms. I personally don't like havin my Rom labeled as non original due to the smali edits I do and bringing Sony Xperia more to life within the Rom. Would like to think that listing credits to those who helped or originated the mod was sufficient. A good OP really sets the tone anyway.

Sent from my ClassicJewel
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] il Duce:
But you reference smali. A few of the sense roms have edited smali, does that make them original? What if they edited the same or similar smali? What if they all followed a guide? The guide is then original, where the mods are not? This is ludicrous unless I'm missing the big picture or something.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] pstevep:
Guides to development aren't really original development. Because you are teaching everyone how to make the mods. The idea was more than likely original, but guides should all be in one place imo. If you are sharing and teaching people how to use your ideas that should be in the development forum, because people who will be using it won't be implementing an original mod any more.

Part of this will go with knowing your developers. Knowing who does original work, and who just uses everyone's work. The key is to remember original, something innovative that no one else has. Something that changes the way people want to use roms.

It is a task, and a pain. There are probably more roms that could be in original dev, but they need looked at, too many roms were brought over at once.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] Aloupha:
I get that there is a distinction between original and non-original work, and while there is a nuance on what constitutes as original I understand the need for the two to be identified.

Coming from user standpoint, I do not understand what is so significant about the original work that warrants the creation of a whole new sub forum for them. The creation of the new sub-forum only makes things more complicated when, in my view, is really not necessary.

The idea behind the original work could be conveyed with other means.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] one_love_420:
In all honesty this is a moderator's nightmare. And also can be very subjective. Who's to say what is "original" and what isn't. In reality almost nothing in android is "original" just merly ideas used from others and mashed together. I'm not a mod on xda but I am on sdx and I can see this being a headache. But I guess that does explain why the ability to report thru tapatalk is no longer there for xda forums. And as for guides being in original and the mod itself not is strange to me, but I do agree with xda trying to make changes as changes are always a move to progress. :)
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] SoraX64:
For me, the split forums help to keep track of things that interest me. If the original development forum is organized correctly, which I will say is right now something that it is not, I'll be able to just visit the original development forum and see the interesting things. The new developments that really show off the greatness of development, like CM and JB work. I personally do not care about the other development forum, as I am not interested in themed ROMs or those that have the same kitchen enhancements as other ROMs.

As a user, I find this to be a good way to differentiate between the cutting edge and the rest.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] kellybrf:
yeah, i think the biggest issue with it right now is that its already a cluster**** of roms that dont really differ from each other that much, and really arent that original to begin with. if its done well there should be max 20-30 threads in the original development section, but as it stands we basically have two similar development subforums with no true discernible difference between them. this makes it harder for users to find content, but more to the point it only splits developers which is exactly the opposite of what the original dev subforum was supposed to do
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] SoraX64:
Exactly, I feel as if there needs to be a higher threshold to get into the original forum, because it'll get VERY bloated quickly.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] Evo_Shift:
I think having two forums is unnecessary. Usually you can tell based on the OP whether it is original or not and we can give credit that way using our Thanks button. This just seems like a glorified way of acknowledging a devs work as original (chosen subjectively by moderators) with the hassle of us needing to look in two places for very similar things.

Why not have an original themers/apps section as well then? The people who develop great themes put a lot of work into it just like the people who develop roms. It just seems like dividing things too much creates clutter.

I like browsing forums though and flash stuff all the time so I'll deal. It's just my opinion.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] SoraX64:
Your suggestion for an original themes section tells me that you're missing the point of the forum split. This isn't as subjective as you think.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] Evo_Shift:
I see ports of themes all the time and edits to apps that are either original work or ported. I just assumed that is easier to port than it is diving into theming or editing apps yourself without using anyone else's work. But, you are right I don't have any idea of what is involved behind the scenes in creating roms, ports, themes or whatever.. To a person who doesn't know coding like me this is why I find it confusing to have the dev section split but having a section like themes and apps not split. I call those guys developers too but maybe should not.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] SoraX64:
I would argue that themes don't need to be split up because they are made as extensions to other pieces of development. The word 'original' is being used to describe development that is created on its own and not taken from something else. A port can still be considered original for this device if the theme was made to work properly.

Not directed at you, but another positive to this is that now the people who want to use something as a base will have somewhere to go to get the best bases. Want a CM base? You know where to find it. Sense? VIPERROM was the first, so it's a good choice for a base because it's been in development longer. And so on.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] Aloupha:
Speaking again from a user standpoint, I would argue that most user do not care whether the work is original or not. The emphasis is whether the work works the way it should and we like it. At the end of it all, the originally created rom and the one that is based on other work are both "ROM" and therefore should, in my opinion, be in the same place.

I still do not see a legitimate reason to substantiate the need to create a completely new sub forum for original roms. Furthermore, as some have stated before, the amount of “original” (as defined by mods, admin, etc…) work will be minimal, or to be about 10-20. Is that such a huge number to justify the creation of a new forum? I would think not and I still do not see why it is so important to create a new forum for them.

What this does is create clutter and more forums that are not needed. In fact, I would argue that there already too many forums. I would think the goal to be to create necessary sub-forums and keep the amount as small as possible. I have own forums and moderated some and too many forums is always a nightmare.

Identifying/tracking original work can be accomplished in a simpler way that does not create clutter. As suggested before, this whole notion could be accomplished by doing something as simple as this: the “original” works could be identified by a prefix of “[ORG]” in the thread title. Moderators would moderate whether the OP’s work truly own the prefix [ORG] in their title.

That's not quite true as it relate to this whole issue. Say that you both you and I create a rom using the definition of original quoted above but you get to post yours one hour before I post mine, yours is original and mine isn't.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] pstevep:
This guy. He gets it.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] TorxT3D:
i dont like this.

spent about 10minutes looking for the latest ota dissection thread.. came in here and there it is..

like.. wut. and a slew of other roms..

i understand that the dev section can get cluttered with roms and good stuff getting pushed pages deep, but theres gotta be a simpler way to organize this all.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] SoraX64:
You'll get used to it. No one expects everyone to adapt instantly.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] one_love_420:
I feel it should not be named "original" but "hey look I'm first"

All this is doing is creating segregation of egos. Nothing more. Merly who is faster and more popular. This is just how I feel. I mean how is a stock rooted Rom an "original" I just don't understand how this whole thing works?
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] pstevep:
This is a good explanation

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=28614343

It's not always who is first.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] drob311:
My opinion is irrelevant but, the problem with 2 development sections is that damn near everyone that releases a Rom usually thinks it is original. I can see people getting offended/butt hurt because their Rom was moved but a near identical Rom wasn't moved. Sooner or later, we will all adapt... :beer:

Sent from my EVO LTE
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] bmtdan:
I literally feel the same way you do just not with all the experience behind me.

I just think it adds more clutter to the pile.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] raiderep:
Prepare to be assimilated ;)

Sent from my EVO
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] Wakawaka024:
If you're going to do this, why not a separate mod section, mabee tutorials,active development. Honestly it's the only way it will really ever be organized. Either that or just leave it alone.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] drob311:
Exactly... Should have been left alone, i.m.o... If it isn't broken, don't fix it... :beer:

Sent from my EVO LTE
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] SoraX64:
The previous system was terribly broken.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] ecoleye:
I'm not really sure why MeanROM got bounced back and forth between the two forums or why it wouldn't be considered "original," but no big deal. Just a few extra clicks now and then.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] Aloupha:
The current one as it is is not a step in the right direction either. So it's now "more broken."
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] SoraX64:
Well... yeah. They just introduced it. Give it some time to flesh out. You can't expect everything to be entirely worked out right away.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] Aloupha:
I disagreed with your post but agreed to some extent with your train of thought quoted above. It changed the focus from an "original work forum," which is where I think part of the disconnect is, to an idea of a "WIP forum." I would go a step further to say that this forum would be a place where all roms/mods/hacks that are not stable and not ready for public use are actually "developed" independent of originality. Once the rom/mod/hack becomes stable, it would be moved to the regular forum. The mods would of course set the basic parameters that the rom/hack/mod must meet before it's moved.

For example, supposed we did not have S-OFF available yet and developers were trying to attain it. Those threads would belong in that new forum. Once S-OFF is achieved, the thread would be moved to the regular forum.

I could see a clear distinction between the two forums if this or something similar to it was the intent of the newly created forum, and I could see why it would be needed/necessary.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] notsointeresting:
I'm going to lay my opinion out there. Some of which seems to have been put out already. Now I'm just a recognized themer and am not a dev so no one has to care what I say.

BUT. I think this idea shouldn't be implemented.

I think this is just going to cause problems with interactions between devs and mods. To me it feels like the patent system (problem). The rules for what section to post in are something like " post in the original section if you're work is" majorly" original. "... How does someone come to the conclusion of what is original enough and what isn't? This is when opinions can start to clash and things start going wrong.

I believe this will just create a headache for devs to have to figure out what section to post in AND to have two dev forums to cycle through. I believe mods could experience more problems too.

I also think splitting development sections splits dev collaboration and communication. I guess you could say it would divide the community in a way. (for this purpose I'm not counting users as a a true stander in the community - whole different argument)

I saw someone talk about splitting the Themer forums too. This I can argue with because I would despise having a community of themers being split up because one themer majorly does ports rather than original work. And with themers EVERYONE tends to share work at some point... So let's not do that. Haha. :beer:

You can follow me on Twitter - @NotSo1nter3stin
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] gerald410:
+1
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] arozer:
Said it before and I'll say it again, this sh*t is cray.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] Robbzilla:
Just my .02, but as a user, I've found that I don't really like the splitting of the forum into two. It makes it harder for me to peruse the files I need. I have to remember which ROM is in which folder, which radio is in which folder, where the recovery files are, etc...

It's possibly nicer for the devs, but I don't like it from an end-user perspective.

That being said, it's your board, and your rules, and I'm just happy to have this board. But just thought I'd point out my frustrations.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] interhawk1:
Who cares if it is original or not... As long as it benefits our phone..
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] motcher41:
I don't get it....they have stock roms in the "original" section. Makes no sense to me to have two but its there and not going away so we will have to deal. Wish tapatalk could merge them into one dev section

rockin my EVO 4G LTE
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] tmuka:
FWIW, in the tapatalk app, my favorites list didn't show the new orig evolte sub forum. I had to unsubscribe from the evo4gLTE forum, kill the app, and resubscribe.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] motcher41:
Gotta unsubscribe it and back outta app then subscribe to our section again

rockin my EVO 4G LTE
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] timtlm:
One might argue that AOKP does NOT belong in original development given that 90% of it is just a kang of CM. I mean it's right there in the title of the ROM.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] il Duce:
They would be wrong. Give it time now that kernel source is out, they are different roms.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] SoraX64:
No, no one could argue that.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] timtlm:
Let me rephrase. AOKP would not exist if it weren't for CM. It wouldn't fully function on any phone other than a nexus if it weren't for CM. Sure, it has its own unique software features, but it kangs everything that makes the hardware work with AOSP from the CM tree.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] SoraX64:
I don't see what that has to do with it not being "original". Have you read the description for what original development is?
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] timtlm:
Yeah. Obviously there's a gray area that's open for interpretation by the mods.
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] Vinchenzop:
This separation of development forums us utterly stupid. Considering something "original" is far too subjective/opinion based. Realistically, there should be little to nothing in 'our' original development forum, as the majority of stuff in there is ported from other devices.

Another issue that I haven't seen mentioned is a potential for more clogging in development threads. Lets face it, many users are idiots. (if that offends you, I was probably referring to you). People will begin to whine about how *this ROM* should be in the original forum, based simply on the fact that that's the ROM/Dev they like, and nothing else.

If people would take time to read the OP of the ROM thread(s), they should be able to deduce for themselves how 'groundbreaking' a ROM is, or how similar it would be to *that other ROM*. We shouldn't need to be led around like children through the forums.

Had things been left the 'old way'...If you're looking for a good ROM, it'll probably be on the first page of the development forum because it more than likely has a strong following. If you're looking for a specific mod...use search.

I would say, if you're going to separate the development forum, split it into "Sense development" and "Aosp/other development".
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] MassStash:
QFT. Especially agree with sense/aosp dev forum split instead...

~Freshly acquired LTEvo; ViperRom'ed in under 2hrs...
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] fr0st420:
Same here. It seems like more work to check both forums all the time.

Sent from my EVO
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] p2cactus:
+1. Why not a ROM forum and then other stuff?
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] digiblur:
I had the same question...some are in the wrong spot.

Sent from my C64 w/Epyx FastLoad cartridge
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] il Duce:
Nothing is in the wrong spot afaik. Any particular ones you mean?
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] sgt. slaughter:
shoot me or any other mod a pm if you feel some are in the wrong spot and we can explain....as for the stock ones being in the OG section, the first rom for version X is OG by default being that its the first...so thats why the stock rooted OTA and such things are in there...other than that it really comes down to a few things which are outlined in the post by pulsar in the portal...

Also this is something that isn't going anywhere tbh.....
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] fr0st420:
Why is zeppelinrox's multi tasking thread in the original development section? It's fairly new so shouldn't it be in the new development section?

Sent from my EVO
[Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE] FattySparks:
Original, as in that comedians act was original. Not old or OG original.