yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Eee Pad Transformer General] knoxploration:
If it was a hardware issue, it wouldn't have started only immediately that ICS was installed. (And it wouldn't stop when you roll back, as some people have done and confirmed.)

No, I didn't make your point. I said the exact opposite. Leaving the TF101 on its original firmware would actually have been preferable to the mess we're in now.

It seems you're willing to live with problems including random reboots and ROM-caused app issues that were not present in the original firmware. I'm not. I expect the hardware I bought to work at least as well as it did when I bought it.

And incidentally, my wife isn't technical either, yet she regularly complains to me about how often her tablet reboots when she's doing something with it.

(BTW, I don't see your signature, nor anybody else's. They're disabled because too many of them are entirely too distracting.)

I have worked full-time on Windows machines for a couple of decades now, and have had exclusively Windows machines ever since I switched from DOS systems to the earliest Windows releases.

I have never had any Windows machine randomly reboot with the frequency my Transformer TF101 tablets do, and I am talking multiple tablets here. It isn't Android or ICS, because I have not had a *single* random reboot with my ICS-based Tegra 3 phone.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] sidneyk:
If you have used Windows for decades and never had any issues with it, then you were extremely lucky and the exception and not the rule. My tab (Asus TF101) is working much better than it ever did on Honeycomb currently. I am a technical person and I work with computers and now tablets daily. I, too, started back in the DOS and Windows 3.11 days. Games were very demanding and very good at exposing hardware and software shortcomings. If you are not happy with stock ICS, then why don't you root and use a custom ROM like Revolver 4.1.1 and a custom kernel like guevor's version 22.6. Your experience would then be very much different. You could also go back to Honeycomb if that's what you prefer. We have a product, Tegra 2 based by the way, which was designed for Honeycomb, so it's a bonus if we get an updated OS to run at all, after all it is free. We'll just have to agree to disagree because, obviously, you have had a different experience and perhaps different expectations of ICS and this device. Perhaps you do have a hardware issue because many people here have a similar experience to mine. Long and short of it, you vote with your wallet. If you feel Asus has burned you, then never give them any more of your money. I keep buying Asus products because the positives have outweighed the negatives for me. I wish you luck in finding a device that meets your expectations.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] sidneyk:
As I said, for me, Revolver 4.1.1 with Guevor's 22.6 kernel, especially at the default 1200MHz, is very stable. I haven't had any RRs or SODs for weeks. Of course, some of those weeks were on earlier versions of guevor's kernel and Revolver 4.1.1 is only a couple weeks old. I've tried Megatron and some of the cm9 and AOSP or AOKP ROMs, but most of them had little issues that kept bringing me back to Revolver. It is mostly stock with some tweaks and fast and fluid. Now, there are some apps that give me issues since ICS, but I think that is because they need to be updated by their authors. Of course, even Revolver can be troublesome if you get a bad flash or have something left over in data or somewhere that it doesn't like for some reason. With a different ROM it's important to have backups of everything you need and to try and wipe everything you can. Revolution thread has a Superwipe Full script that does a pretty good job and sometimes you have to manually format a partition to insure cleaning everything. My recovery skips /data/media, which if you look at it is essentially the internal sdcard data. I had to manually delete that directory in Android before going back and flashing a new ROM to make sure the old stuff was gone. And you have to be sure not to restore system data from an old ROM version, just redo all the system stuff manually. But, just like Windows, once you get a good install it works pretty good and makes all the difference.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] st0nedpenguin:
I'm honestly surprised anybody is even trying to defend Asus for the fact that they still haven't fixed a pretty widespread issue caused by their own ICS update.

By no means do I hate them as a company or anything absurd like that, but it's pretty ridiculous.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] MrNago:
As someone implied a few posts above, you vote with your money. He or she is so right.

I honestly had no idea of those ICS issues. I flashed the very first clockworkmod flashable ics rom that surfaced, and used it, very happily, for a few months. Actually, until last week. For the record, mine is a B70v2 if i remember correctly.

In my POV, two people have different opinions because they've had different experiences. Mine with Asus has been 9.5/10, and that's because they didn't provide a boatloader unlock tool like with the Prime. That'd been perfect.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] dragon_76:
http://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html

From the horse's mouth.

ICS has an abysmal install rate.

There's more people still using Froyo than using ICS.

Google did this to themselves with Honeycomb and ICS only being developed with their "most favoured hardware developers" attitude.

New handsets being produced are still coming with Gingerbread.

Google has themselves a Windows XP/Vista situation going on here.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] Gracticus:
I purchased my tf101 back in march and I upgraded to stock ICS first thing. At first it was a bit buggy but since about may I have had only 1 rr. Also since may I have only been using my transformer and gingerbread cell phone because I sold all of my windows systems. I constantly use both my phone and transformer often running the transformer for 12+ hours a day. I haven't had an issue yet. Obviously not everyone is getting the same experience. I think this may be the result of minor hardware differences not being properly supported by the stock ICS kernel. My suggestion would be to send it into Asus and see if they can fix the problem.

Now back on to the topic of this thread. Google has said that they want manufacturers to give 18 months of upgrades. This translates into at least 3 OS versions. We have had hc, now we have ICS after 1 year, so I would think that Asus would give the jb upgrade if they want to follow through with what google wants. Now since Asus is one of the only companies even trying to upgrade I would say we should expect the Jb upgrade around November. At worst it would be march of next year. This will probably be my first custom rom I put on my transformer just because I like some of the custom features.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] CrazyPeter:
Not on a x86 tablet. The only tablet apps that are allowed to be non-Metro are Microsoft Office and Microsoft Internet Explorer.

Everything else has to be Metro, regardless of the CPU. Windows8RT is destined for the garbage bin.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] Nonek:
Ok, so when I suggested that it was a hardware issue, you then state that it's NOT a hardware issue because ICS runs rock solid on your other devices.

Attempting to apply some sort of troubleshooting logic to this, which I'm sure is flawed and I'm equally as sure that you will point out those flaws, if it's NOT ICS in general that leaves us with a few general questions that might narrow things down.

Is ICS stable? We'll say this is a yes.

Do the random reboots and SOD's happen to everyone with the same frequency? I would say no on this one.

Is the Firmware that people are using the same? This one is a little tougher but I would say for the MAJORITY yes. Most people don't root / flash custom roms. That can certainly be up for debate.. And either way it's all derivatives of ICS that people have played with so the underlying "stuff" is the same.

So just with the above information and these not so constant constants..

ICS is stable.

Versions on tablets are the same.

Random Reboots and SOD's are not the same.

Leaves you with a pretty strong argument that the Hardware Platform is slightly different across the hardware customer base...

But frankly I don't agree with your argument about it not being ICS. Rolling back to 3.1 and having your troubles go away only says that 3.1 runs better on the tablet from a stability standpoint. You can't say it's not the hardware platform again because generally any OS will be somewhat behind the hardware. New innovative hardware comes out and then software is generally written to accommodate that hardware. It is highly likely that in ICS certain hardware functionality is being employed that was not present at all in Honeycomb. Hence faster performance and more integration with hardware. Which could easily lead to issues with drivers and hardware interaction especially if there are differences in the devices themselves.

I didn't mean for this to get so long and somewhat of a brain dump but I just woke up..

So again in my opinion this is either Hardware differences in the platform which would point to drivers needing to be tweeked if it's not a flat out hardware problem that no one has pinned down, or some software that either I am using to prevent the issue or something your running that is causing it. I personally hardly EVER get RR... I can't remember the last one.. I do however get SOD when I have my 32gig SD card inserted. Which Guever (sp?) is actually working on in the Dev section with his Kernels. They are the best ones to try HANDS DOWN.. Hardest working dev I have seen on here and my TF101 flies..

Anyway.. I said all that to say..

It's prob hardware and certainly the interaction of low level driver code with that hardware because if you say ICS itself is SOLID than those two things are really the only possible differences.

Have a nice day. ;-)
[Eee Pad Transformer General] Nonek:
You are incorrect sir. It's a full blown Windows 8 implementation that will run all legacy Windows apps.

The ARM version will have Metro office and be their Windows 8 phone / tablet OS which will have to be Metro apps.

I personally am a fan of android but I have to say.. if I get a tablet that will run all my Windows apps? It's not even close to a decision. The decision is to figure out what flavor of Ramen soup I need to buy so that I can save my pennies and get one.

It's amazing how I can search the internet (You've heard of it??) for two secs and find..

"We see the X86-based Pro as a corporate laptop replacement. This offering has more potential because the OS is backward compatible, has more robust security, leverages the existing installed base, and offers full Office support. "

That's just a piece of it and frankly why would microsoft come out with an ARM tablet.. and then come out with an X86 version of that tablet and say to both.. "Have fun with Metro"
[Eee Pad Transformer General] naplesbill:
That is entirely false. The full desktop, and ability to run full desktop apps will be the Pro version. That would be the x86 model with the i5. RT is the version for Arm and the one with desktop restrictions. The i5 is not an Arm processor and will not be running RT. Also, RT will still be very capable and a good option for many tablet users.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] eminembdg:
You can't sit here and say Asus is a crap company because they put out ics and it is almost unusable. Just because some seem to have SOD doesn't mean all do. My tf101 is rooted and rom'ed and I'm using Megatron and have no issues. Everyone likes to take a chunk of users with issues and blow it up out of control.

And to the poster that said they'd rather no update then one that is flawed, hahahaha. Im willing to bet you're also one that cried and moaned about an update from day one.

Seriously, we'll get JB. And most likely from our awesome devs here that'll build it from source once its out. The people that know what they're talking about all know our hardware will definitely handle it. Also this update is NOWHERE as big as ICS was. Be patient, it'll come. And the disrespectful ones will whine and cry then as well if there's a slight bug or battery drain or SOD. Its just expected
[Eee Pad Transformer General] knoxploration:
Did you really just use your experience on non-stock firmware to justify your (utterly incorrect) beliefs about stock firmware?

In Asus' own poll recently, well over 80% of the large number of respondents on Facebook--ie. regular users, not XDA power users--said they were experiencing SoD and RR problems.

Not to mention ICS is perfectly usable on other devices from other manufacturers--just not Asus's devices.

You're trolling. Buh-bye now.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] scottyf79:
Well lets just hope that IF J.B lands on the Tf101, it works for everyone and resolves any outstanding issues users still face.

Personally had no issues with I.c.s in any format on any of my devices.

Just waiting for the avalanche of threads and posts on J.B to really kick off and watch the carnage again lol:p
[Eee Pad Transformer General] Thing O Doom:
http://www.transformerforums.com/fo...search-faster-than-siri-video-comparison.html

Looks like the Voice Search and Recognition beats out SIRI :D
[Eee Pad Transformer General] HTCHD2ireland:
Both me and my girlfriend had the random reboot issue. Bit scandalous to leave it like that for 3 months I thought. Was not much fun to take it out of the bag fully expecting it to be hot and on or dead. Will be in no hurry to update to JB especially since I use flash all the time on various players
[Eee Pad Transformer General] Merlin_AZ:
Yea, as easy as getting us a stable version of ICS.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] knoxploration:
Second-hand, but early reports from people who've actually used the Nexus 7 tablet suggests that it suffers random reboot issues on Jelly Bean, just like the TF101 on Ice Cream Sandwich.

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=28152997&postcount=1822

Surprise, surprise.

People who are talking about buying it, pay attention. You're just about to blow your money on a repeat of the same boondoggle you're already in.

People who are expecting to get it on their Transformers, pay attention. Odds are it will be just as unusable as ICS, and you'll still be praying for a return to Honeycomb.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] xufuchang:
is this asus issue or other tablets also suffer rr?
[Eee Pad Transformer General] knoxploration:
I have not seen any reports of other tablet suffering RR even remotely as frequently as Asus' can. It is unusual to manage more than 24 hours without an RR on either of my TF101 tablets, and I have seen as many as 3-5 RRs in one day before now.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] thantos:
ICS unstable on the TF?! I've had mine on my TF for months and have experienced only one random reboot....
[Eee Pad Transformer General] knoxploration:
Well, you're most likely in the minority, unless you're using custom ROM / kernel.

Asus themselves conducted a poll on Facebook which received a large number of responses from typical end-users, not from XDA techie types. They still were told that well over 80% of users were experiencing random reboots and other related issues.

It seems a small number of people have had less problems with the most recent firmware update, but many of us still have major problems.

And if you're claiming to have had no problems at all for "months", then you're very definitely in a small minority.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] oldfield16:
Guess I'm in a minority too, I'm on AOKP overclocked. Used to get random reboots, but when I upgrade AOKP to the latest build I haven't had one since.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] knoxploration:
If you're not on stock Asus firmware then your experiences aren't really relevant to a discussion of stock firmware quality.

Sent from my HTC One X
[Eee Pad Transformer General] scottyf79:
Why?

it doesnt mean that we havent tried it or used it when it first landed.......its not everyone on stock firmware that has had the issues. My customers have not came back complaining about their TF's going wonky and i highly doubt any of them are using custom roms.

Can feel your pain and frustration though.:(
[Eee Pad Transformer General] manikin13:
I am on Stock, unrooted, ICS - prior to the last update was experiancing the random reboot issue, however have not had an issue since the last update, infact had to shutdown and reboot myself to fix a slowdown problem with wifi due to my mistake.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] naplesbill:
I had reboot and SOD problems on Honeycomb and ICS. The last update fixed my issues. I have only had one reboot and zero SODs since the last update.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] knoxploration:
I was answering somebody who stated they did have issues on stock.

Why would customers come back to you? By the time the problems appear, they're beyond the return window...

Sent from my HTC One X
[Eee Pad Transformer General] lukesjeans:
http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=28020178&postcount=36

Here is a guide a member wrote to port to the Acer tab. May work for our devs. Worth a shot I assume or just wait for aosp
[Eee Pad Transformer General] mannyvzla:
I think that if jb is coming our way it'd be a good thing for some not so good for others. In my experience with the ICS on the TF I've had not rr nor sod on stock rom and, yes, I have a lot of apps being used everyday hence I think that it depends on what's on your tablet, more or less the same that happens on windows pcs. Just for the records, I did have some rr while on hc
[Eee Pad Transformer General] Jamesyboy:
Who says that 18 months after its DCed? After I/O last year Google announced the update alliance that promised to keep phones updated for "18 months after their initial release" --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qlyG7cc8bA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2397729,00.asp

After RELEASE.

Huge difference dude. ROFL. Phone are on sale for years-- even after they're removed from a carrier's line up. The retail channels then move away from the carriers toward MVNOs, who by definition need cheap phones (because a lack of contract means no subsidy), and then to third parties.

Also, even if it was part of the Update alliance, all parties have already reneged on the deal. All of them. If we get past all of the above, and still, act as ifmASUS was part of the program, Google added a clever byline too their statement...the good ol' "when hardware allows". And we've all seen carriers and manufacturers argue that devices are incapable of running the latest and greatest version of an OS, when it clearly is. Then there's the fact that ICS was such a huge upgrade, and caused so much pain, with issues still unresolved. And lastly, ASUS just launched the prime, the infinity pad, the tf300, the padfone and accompanying tablet dock, and now the nexus 7, its hard to see them really buckling down on the outlier....the tegra 2 tf101 and its 3g and slider variants. At least the tf300, the nexus 7, and the prime all run tegra 3 (wasn't the infinity and the padfone supposed to use the s 4?). ASUS is looking at a mess...its becoming SAMSUNG.

And ASUS was NOT part of the alliance.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] Jamesyboy:
What's RR? And I think its has to do with mods and ROMs. I had issues on all ROMs except stock, and now megatron. And I've used the same apps the whole time. Browser, XDA, kindle, nook, GAPPs, and various utilities.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] knoxploration:
RR is random reboot, and no, it happens to many of us frequently on the stock ROM, unrooted, and even with only stock apps installed.

Sent from my HTC One X
[Eee Pad Transformer General] st0nedpenguin:
Isn't even the desktop x86 release still stuck with Metro? Why would they remove it for the tablet version?
[Eee Pad Transformer General] naplesbill:
Both tablets will have metro. The x86 model will have full desktop mode as well. The RT version will have very limited desktop mode.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] Phatboyj420:
The a500 acer iconia tab already has a working port.

Besides that the prime will get JB for sure and theres no reason that cant be ported to us just my thoughts on the JB

---------- Post added at 01:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 PM ----------

Somebody has to buy MS's "BS" Win8 Tablets

Closed source, yes I said BS enjoy it as you must be that somebody!

I myself would have thought that MS would stick to what they know (PC's) especialy after their fails thus far with Tabs & Phones.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] sbiriguda:
I was talking about an official JB update by Asus, which given the delay of the upcoming ICS patch (and the rumors of RRs affecting the Nexus 7...) is highly unlikely to happen.

That said, I'm sure someone - sooner or later - will come up with some AOSP-based Jelly Bean ROM ;)

One reason, actually: the Prime is a Tegra3-based device, it is fundamentally different from the TF101 in terms of hardware and architecture.

It would be a lot easier porting JB over from a Xoom build than from a Prime/TF300T/TF700/Nexus 7.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] ferchos:
I AGREE

this makes me think that JB will not be available for OTA for TF101.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] a.mcdear:
I'm 99% certain we won't get JB from Asus. I think it will hit the AOSP ROM's eventually, but I just can't see Asus spending the time on it. Then again, we'll just have to see what pans out..
[Eee Pad Transformer General] ddseils:
i purchased my B60 TF101 in March, immediately upgraded to ics and have NEVER had a single rr or sod. i have been running stock and unrooted.. i can imagine that just as in Windows, certain combinations of hardware and software that are present on different machines can cause unpredictable results. you don't blame the manufacturer for those.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] naplesbill:
Nice opinion. Too bad it has zero relevance to my post.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] C.Flat:
Same here. I've been running stock and haven't had a random reboot since the last update
[Eee Pad Transformer General] DLeh:
While you are technically correct, the fact of the matter is that is not a corporate laptop replacement. This is not only my opinion as the IT network administrator for my company, but if you go on the forums of somewhere like spiceworks, you will see that legacy app support is not stable enough for many companies still running Windows XP apps. If by legacy you mean Win 7, you may have a point. But the general consensus is that windows 8 is for the consumer market, not the corporate.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] naplesbill:
Unless you have used the release code, the instability claim is rather bold. Also, there are plenty of corporate laptop users with virtually zero reliance on XP compatibility. That type of user would more likely be on a desktop. That there is a large part of the road warrior community that would benefit from the W8 Pro tablet, hardly seems questionable.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] aburgthing:
No random reboots or SOD here either. I did run into some problems after installing a beta version of the Power Amp widgets. After I remembered what I installed and uninstalled back to smooth normal operations. I do really feel bad for those frustrated by the problems, however I would recommend Asus to anyone interested in a tablet period.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] leerobson99:
It would be nice to hear from Asus in the near future whether our tf101 will see Jelly Bean.

The only problem is whether it will break our devices (again).

Sent from my Nexus S
[Eee Pad Transformer General] El Niche:
I think they will update it to JB but that will come very late 2012 if not 2013. But I do believe we'll get a working, better custom rom with JB before that.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] regP:
Im don't recall if Asus released the ICS kernel source yet but if they have JB shouldn't be pretty easy for devs to build from AOSP.