yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] magicsquid:
Here's a couple of interesting articles from a blog of a former Microsoft Distinguished Engineer.

"Microsoft has committed that Windows Phone 7.5 apps will run on Windows Phone 8. But what about the other way around? What about apps that are written for Windows Phone 8? They are very unlikely to run on Windows Phone 7.5. Waiting for “Words with Friends”? It may come to Windows Phone 8 but never to Windows Phone 7.5. Pandora? Ditto. Once Windows Phone 8 ships the number of new apps being introduced for Windows Phone 7.5 will quickly drop to zero."

Source: http://hal2020.com/2012/04/27/windows-phone-7-5-will-top-out-at-100000-apps/

"First let’s jump to the main technical issues blocking Windows Phone 8 from running on existing hardware. Done. Yes that was quick. As anyone who has followed Windows 8 on ARM (WOA) knows Microsoft has had Windows NT running on phone hardware for many years. Years before the Windows Phone 7 effort began. There is nothing about the speed of the processors or amount of memory in Windows Phone 7 that would prevent Microsoft from running Windows Phone 8 on those devices."

Source: http://hal2020.com/2012/04/22/will-existing-phones-be-upgradeable-to-windows-phone-8/
[Windows Phone 7 General] blanket:
Way to go ms, pissing on all the people who kept faith in you for many years

You told us a reboot of the whole system was necessary and we took it on the chin. What next? Gonna kick us in the balls?

I've been with ms on the mobile front since 2003se. Its probably time to look elsewhere
[Windows Phone 7 General] Cor-master:
Man I really considered a lumia but decided on an HTC vivid instead and man am I glad I did. What kind of crap is that anyway? I can understand something like a Samsung Focus not getting updated to 8, but the brand new windows phones that just came out? Windows 8 will be the death of Microsoft
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
I posted this on wpcentral and it's appropriate here as well.

Fellow members, it's been rumored now for weeks that legacy devices weren't getting Apollo. Why are you all so surprised and upset? I've read somewhere on these boards that MS used WP7 as a beta test. Well, let me tell you something, y'all brought this on yourselves. Follow me for a second. During the time of WM6.1 everybody was clamoring for an update because there were rumors of a Windows Mobile 7. Everybody wanted capacitive screens with pinch-to-zoom, etc. MS gives us WM6.5 (sound familiar) as an update while the new OS is polished. The clamoring got louder after 6.5 and MS rushed WP7 to market before it was done baking. The clamoring reached a fever pitch when there were no ringtones, copy & paste, etc.

Here we are again, forums have beaten WP7 to a pulp because of single-core processors, crappy cameras, low screen resolutions, etc. MS knew they couldn't re-do WP7 to meet the moaning crowds' wishes so they gave us Mango to hold us over until the "next big thing". Now it's here and we're right back where we were 2-1/2 years ago. WP7 apps weren't compatible with WinMo, and now WP8 apps won't work on WP7.

Go ahead and keep on trying to keep up with the Joneses, or Androids. MS will gladly oblige, just don't complain when it happens.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ you forgot to add that this time it's the real deal. This time, its future proofed for all types of hardware.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Cor-master:
All of a sudden androids slow manufacturer updates aren't as much of an issue... This is an epic fail really. I don't know why anyone would honestly buy a windows phone now
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ bye. Better argument please.

This is progress, and IMHO blows IOS 6 away.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Cor-master:
Steve Ballmer is that you?
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ NO, but I wish. Dude is rich.

If this was Apple, 7.8 would be called IOS6, but they wouldn't include the new start screen.

Give Microsoft credit for being honest.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ebautista:
Well here's a better argument.

1. For MS, it would be a good move and the most competitive way to mess around with Android and iOS. Plus big bucks for them (Let's see if people will still buy WP).

2. For OEMs, Manufacturers, the effect will be big lost. Imagine how many WP manufactured that have not been bought yet? If people won't buy them, them really a big lost. If they will drop the price. Still lost. Why do they have to struggle in this kind of change that MS wanted to achieve? Unless MS pay them for that would be a fair move. But I guess MS won't do that.

3. For consumers. Those who bought WP 2nd gen few days before, a big sorry. And those who are hoping that MS will still give major updates, still big sorry. And most especially to those who were on contract for more that a year (same as I have (oh shame) ).

The equation is, MS won't just let themselves suffer a big loss. They will include the manufacturers, carriers and, most of all, consumers. Especially those who have a 2-3 years contract from their respective carriers.

Image what kind of move MS is doing now.

Just 2 years ago, they dumped Windows Mobile phones, now our WPs. And we are just starting to get into the hype of it. But sooner or later, it will change.
[Windows Phone 7 General] blanket:
I know what u mean and btw, I didn't complain about multicore, high resolution screens etc etc, which regardless, doesn't make this slap in the face any better or worse.

We are all screwed regardless.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ebautista:
+1
[Windows Phone 7 General] JackFetter:
They really did screw up, and it's been the last straw for me on Windows Phone. I'm going back to Android.
[Windows Phone 7 General] dtboos:
Enjoy.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RandomXIII:
If you love M$ so much, why aren't you using a WP ? OH I FORGOT, there is no Tapatalk for WP ... Gotta love how the minds of the blind fanboys work... They got ****ed hard by M$ but they still come back for more.

M$ fanboys are no worse than iSheeps.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Mr. Raza:
i got a Samsung focus well now i know i can flash my phone that's the only thing that kept from flashing a custom rom i'll do it after the last update easy
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kenzibit:
Exactly....WP7.x is dead and WP8 will suurely die too. Microsoft always changing stuff and ****ing us up
[Windows Phone 7 General] juzz86:
Dude, is there any need for the continued f-bomb?

It's fine that you're upset. But honestly, not every post needs that all through it.

I've edited it out of the thread title and OP. Please try and tone it down a little :)

Thanks.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kenzibit:
Thanks Modertor, was kinda pissed yesterday.....won't happen again.
[Windows Phone 7 General] juzz86:
All good mate, no worries. I understand :)

Thankyou for understanding, also.
[Windows Phone 7 General] dazza9075:
your recollection of history is somewhat lacking.

WM 6.1 was developed and we had capacitive screens as you put it with pinch to zoom in many programs, WM7 aka Proton was in development designed to take touch to the next level. At this point MS sat down and worked out where the money was, and that is with the mass user markets, but the "technical" style of WM was never going to wash with the un trained masses which is why WM7 was scrapped and WP7 was born. That single change in letter is VERY important and it also highlights why you are missing the point of WP

WM was a pocket PC, it was the last PocketPC, a behemoth of an OS that was only ever held back by shoddy OEM and driver support,

MS thankfully learned from those mistakes, MS took heat on WM through no fault of its own other than giving too much rope to OEMs and networks.

WP is a PHONE, its was never intended to be a PocketPC or a replacement for a pocketPC, the Idea of WP is that out of the box it supports the most commonly needed functions without the need to download stacks of different apps, but ill come to that later, WP out of the box, is a lot more useful as a phone than any of the other OSs.

Anyhow, because of the long development cycle of WP it was decided to give some of the WM7 upgrades to users and thus WM6.5 was born. It was always going to be a dead end.

WP was only a test in that it had a very long development life, things change, what was not possible then became possible, that's called development or progress.

Whilst disappointing that WP7.x devices wont get the full treatment its been known for quite some time that that would be the case, the real question is how much of WP8 will be back ported to WP7.x, that is what I would like clarified, is it just the UI or will some supported features come too?. As for app support, there will need to be some clarification of what is and isn't supported. your all getting very animated about this. but it wont affect me much at all, I use it as a phone and I don't need 500,000 fart apps, I don't need the latest and greatest, and if I did they it would be foolish of me to think that my 2 year old device will get it all for free.

If you truly believe that MS should give you everything for nothing then you are delusional, however in saying that, I do expect MS to me open and forthcoming so that potential buyers NOW wont be left with any misunderstanding.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thebobp:
This, to me, is the real question.
[Windows Phone 7 General] no0b4v3r:
But what do you guys think about this pic?

It shows HTC Titan 2 with skype intergration @@ im confused
[Windows Phone 7 General] rtydevine:
An hd2 who took finaly wp7 and now a titan without wp8. Bad luck !!! Or f$ ! WP 7.8 is a joke because not supporting new apps. Bad news
[Windows Phone 7 General] dazza9075:
that's my point, we know there are features coming down to 7.x but MS needs to be open about what those features are, otherwise until WP8 comes out sales will evaporate., PS we have Skype, but its not integrated and very lacking! lol
[Windows Phone 7 General] Cor-master:
people defending Microsoft are missing the point. I really considered the lumia 900 as i was fed up with having to root to get the latest and greatest android update. Most people who grabbed one probably grabbed one for that reason, and now their brand new phones are outdated. yes ms has a history of doing such a thing but in the phone market iphone has sadly set the standard for updates and people who got a windows phone thought they were okay, but surprise they are screwed.
[Windows Phone 7 General] crav4speed:
At the end of the day, everything in this thread is speculation.
[Windows Phone 7 General] damtrx_:
Well my HTC Trophy will be 2 years old when Windows Phone 8 come out.

There will another 6-9 months after the WP8 release when peaople will "adopt" the new OS . This means if i am a developer and i will not start developing only native code programs only few people will buy my product.

So if i want to make money from the market i should develop for the current devices. After 6 to 9 months Nokia Lumia will be out of date and many more will move to the new OS . I don't like that my phone will not receive WP8 but that is the way it is .

For the Nokia Lumia guys ...well they are prety f*cked up :)

Personally i don't think the Microsoft will change theyr kerner version for the next 5 - 10 years .

As WP 7.5 users we suffered Windows ME problem - no way to upgrade to Windows XP or Vista :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
6.1 devices had capacitive screens, really? If memory serves me correct only the HTC Leo (HD2) and a Toshiba that never made it to the US had cap screens & WinMo, and that was 6.5, not 6.1. WM6.1 was, and is, a stylus-centric OS and my personal favorite.

BTW, as of WM5, it was no longer "PocketPC" in the eyes of MS. The community still referred to it as PocketPC because of familiarity.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Correct, and all 6.5 and 6.5x devices were renamed Windows Phone. We had a huge argument about it on here. People were claiming 6.5 would still be supported and not be killed off.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vpwp:
I've had enough of seeing this misinformed and fear mongering argument. It'll take at least a year and half from now for WP8 to gain a userbase as large as WP7's considering WP8 will be released at the end of this year. Do you think devs are just going to drop support for WP7 when it's likely to remain their largest userbase for 1.5 years. Especially when code for both OSes are 90% similar? How do you think developing for Android works? Have devs stopped making sure their apps can run on most devices when ICS was released? I don't think so.

So, yeah maybe you won't be able to play the latest games and power hungry apps but what good would they have been on your device when they would have been laggy anyways?
[Windows Phone 7 General] sitizenx:
So now you don't have Windows Phone of any kind?!

I don't get it. You still don't have Windows Phone 8 and you are locked into a contract. If you like Android just say you like Android. We may not understand why but at least we will respect you. By the way check out my signature. You like?

---------- Post added at 12:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 PM ----------

Most people do not "root" their phone. You want to think about that again and come back and start over?
[Windows Phone 7 General] tboy2000:
TOTALLY agree!
[Windows Phone 7 General] exmsde:
It's mostly a marketing gaffe

Earlier in this thread someone posted a link to one of my old blog entries on this topic, so I'll add in a few cents :-)

The emotional impact, and the marketing issues this causes, far exceeds the practical impact for nearly all users. My Nokia Lumia 900 will not become any less useful when WP8 ships then it is today, and in fact Nokia and Microsoft will make sure it gets a good refresh wave in the meantime. Not only that, but I'm already lusting for the better screen and a host of other hardware improvements that make my 900 feel rather low-end. Yes I just got it. Yes it is almost obsolete. But that is hardware problem much more than a software problem.

Users of existing devices will feel an impact on the application side. Some long desired applications (I'm thinking Pandora as an example) will likely show up on Windows Phone 8 but not Windows Phone 7.8. And of course native mode games on Windows Phone 8 will make owners of older devices envious. But overall it will take a good six months after Windows Phone 8 ships before the real impact on app availability for 7.8 is felt. I do think that the WP8 device population will very quickly exceed the 7.x population, which differs from what others have postulated. But it isn't as if on October 1st developers will just drop support for Windows Phone 7.x. Well, maybe October 1st of 2013. Back to my Pandora example, I think the real problem is going to be with some key apps that appear soon after Windows Phone 8 launch and only run on that platform. They are going to make the situation seem more bleak than it actually is.

Just clarifying one other historical item. When Windows Mobile 6.5 launched the strategy was that 6.x would continue in parallel with Windows Phone 7 for a couple of years in order to address markets that Windows Phone 7 wasn't addressing. I don't know precisely why that strategy was dropped, but did note that after the 6.5.3 update, and launch of Windows Phone 7, the device manufacturer and customer interest in 6.x completely disappeared. The only people left with an interest in 6.x were the embedded guys who made use of some of the Windows Mobile capabilities that weren't in Windows Embedded Compact itself. Even then, people started using the iPhone for many of those scenarios (e.g., Apple not surprisingly moved from a Windows Mobile device to an iPhone-based device for associates in their retail stores). So the notion of keeping Windows Mobile 6.x as a parallel phone OS offering apparently was dropped.

I did write two more blog entries on this topic this morning. As a nooby to xda I can't post a link. But you can figure it out.

Hal
[Windows Phone 7 General] Laquox:
I was just about to hop on here and say pretty much the same thing. :good:

Seriously WP8 will not even probably release until (knowing MS) around late october early november. Now were any of you early adopters of WP7? HOW LONG DID IT TAKE before MS sorted out the problems with the early WP7 software? What was it late last year sometime before most of the handsets in the wild had 7.5? Now with WP8 they say they are going to be able to OTA new updates but that still doesn't take into account that WP8 will probably not be a polished OS until (realistically here) 2014.

By that point almost all of the people crying will be out of contract and can get their new Nokia 1500s (just making up a name here allowing the high end time to advance) with dual core technology etc. Another gripe I keep seeing is people feeling like they are being left out. Left out of what exactly? Seriously Joe even said ALL WP7.5 apps will work with Windows 8 with little to no code tweaking necessary and it's not like developers are going to just sit on their heels for 8-16 months waiting on the new phones to come to market and get sorted out. Developers are all about the cold hard cash and if they can continue to improve their apps and make money while waiting for the full transition to WP8 they will.

Also we are getting most of the new features that can be done via software to our beloved 1st/2nd gen Phones. Will you get NFC? Dual Core? Higher Res? NOPE because that would mean you would need NEW hardware which just isn't feasible. However, what you will be getting is (for the most part) all of the delicious software goodness. Right now yes we know we are only getting the new start screen and color mods, but a few of the things we are getting (esp as Nokia consumers) will be apps that will add the WP8 functionality to our phones.

I think we all need to sit back and just wait and see how this pans out because the panic and hysteria is hyping you up for nothing.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sensboston:
Good words, Hal, I'm 100% agree with you! I'll post link to your blog, don't worry: http://hal2020.com/
[Windows Phone 7 General] dreamcaster012:
At least on my old Motorola Droid 1 I could upgrade it to Gingerbread by myself...I'll never be able to upgrade my HTC Trophy to WP8.

This is why I'll probably move back to Android, among other reasons, even though I don't like Android much anymore either. At least they have a notification system that doesn't blow.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thevuman:
We can send a man to the moon but we can't get WP8 apps to work on WP7. lulz
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
I don't think you guys completely understand what native coding represents. No one will hop through hoops to develop for WP7 when WP8 is right around the corner. You can be optimistic all you want, but serious developers will develop for Windows 8/Rt and then make simple changes for WP8. This way having 3 platforms, this is huge.

Native coding also means ports will be easier, app parity will be a reality. Developers would be crazy not to develop for Windows, the most ubiquitous OS on this planet.
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
Didn't quite work out that way. The last WinMo phone (in the US) was the LG Fathom (6.5.3) and that wasn't exactly a bellwether phone even though the specs were there. For that time anyway. That one was released in June of 2010, a full 4 months before WP7. There may have been boatloads of HD2's and TP2's laying around for sale at the carrier stores but there was definitely a void in the MS lineup. LG could have had a real winner if they'd only made the screen a scant 1/4" wider. WinMo simply doesn't work well on a narrow screen without a stylus. Remember the Sony Ericsson X1?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Cor-master:
Who said I was here to make a case for android anyway? I'm not trying to convert anyone. Just saying I considered wp7 because I hate apple and I was getting fed up with having to wait for updates or getting cut off from them too soon. I actually praised Ms for the way they were handling windows phone vs the mess of manufacturers, different hardware, and skins that represent android, and what Im saying is I'm sure plenty lumia 900 users probably came from android because they were sick of the mess, but now they just found out they are stuck for 2 years with an unsupported phone
[Windows Phone 7 General] Cor-master:
I can honestly understand the old phones not being supported such as the Samsung focus or an htc hd7 but every phone that came out this year should be getting the update, and shouldn't be cut off from new apps.

I got a Vivid because im familiar with android and love the customization and ultimately because the phone 7 market didn't have many of the apps I used. But I really don't care what anyone else uses
[Windows Phone 7 General] RandomXIII:
With the release of WP8 and cutoff of supports for the current WP7 lineups, MS just shot themselves in the foot by doing two things:

_ Introduce fragmentation: now developers have to work extra harder to support both the existing WP7.x customers and the new WP8 customer base.

_ Piss off and alienating all the customers that have been with MS through ups and downs: note that this is more important because WP has never been popular, most people will either get an Android or iPhone and only the loyal and diehards get WP7. With this announcement, MS has effectively give all its loyal users the middle finger. For users who haven't abandoned WP despite being shafted by the whole HD2 and WM6.5 fiasco, this will be the LAST STRAW, trust me.

A bit about my phone history, I have had an HD2, a Samsung Focus and a Dell Venue Pro but no more, I will not give M$ another chance. Trick me once, shame on you, trick me twice shame on me. History will repeat itself, MS will once again abandon users of WP8 and WP8.5 when announcing WP9. The only ones who haven't realized this is the die-hard MS fanboys who are keep on coming back to M$ no matter how bad M$ treats them.

Heed my advices, give other platforms a try and use this a breakup point for this abusive relationship. M$ doesn't deserve your money and your time. Use that money to buy something that will be properly supported and more importantly you will be treated like a valuable customer.
[Windows Phone 7 General] taruian:
you're right.

surely the business line up will be hit greatly, after 2 years WP 7/7.5 doesn't even stand up in business line properly, now MS ditched the entire platform, now surely it will loose most of the users.

Nobody needs a new OS every year unless it has glitches/bugs, minor updates will do. theres no need to abandon the entire platform and now they want to start from scratch again. MS has dig its own grave.

im going back to I phone, what a huge mess MS made with its users.

im sure ppl with 3 years contract are kinda safe, i pity ppl like me who bought WP without contract.

:(
[Windows Phone 7 General] kenikh:
Guys. Chill. Think. We are getting the NT kernel. On a phone. I mean...Holy Sh!t. Anyone who thinks NT is getting replaced is wrong.

It's done. The mission is complete, the vision has been fulfilled. You get a full, real, server quality OS, in your pocket.

How godammned cool is that?

FWIW, the hardware limitations argument for Gen 1 phones is total crap. This wasn't a hardware decision, it was a fragmentation decision.

Bask in the goodness that is NT, piss all over the weak sauce phones running watered down Linux and Mach kernels. Wait for some XDA genius Dev to put WP8 on an early device. You know why it'll happen? Because windows phone is now on NT and the most badassed devs on planet earth LOVE writing native code against it.

You ain't seen nothing yet.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Strike_Eagle:
Microsoft is not NASA, lol.
[Windows Phone 7 General] red12355:
Obviously you don't understand the difference between a kernel and an OS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MikeyMike01:
Does your phone somehow do less than it did a week ago? Who's fault is it if you bought a phone that didn't have what you wanted under the assumption it would some day?

Sent from my SGH-I777
[Windows Phone 7 General] lqaddict:
Yet the majority servers present are running Unix like OS.

The NT kernel has been the kernel of choice with MS for nearly a decade on both server and desktop front.