yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Microsoft Surface] fatclue:
Do you even know the difference between an ARM tablet and and x86 tablet? It appears as if you don't otherwise you would not have ranted about "incompatibility". Are the iPad and a Mac Air OS's compatible with each other? No, and for the same reason as W8 & RT. These are two distinct machines with different capabilities. Arm yourself with some knowledge before posting so that others without knowledge are not dissuaded from a purchasing decision.

---------- Post added at 03:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 PM ----------

I must not have read your post correctly. You're saying that the RT will have more functionality and will be great for students who will be able to do more on a day-to-day basis but it WON'T be an iPad killer? Let's see, I get more features and more functionality. Nah, I'll stick with the iPad since it's a less productive device. Please explain that nugget of logic to me.
[Microsoft Surface] dave888:
I am aiming to get a PRO.

But I need to know thee things first:

The price, the full specs and if you can turn off the switch to install unsigned OS's or dual boot or if it's off by default for pro .

The pro version don't compete with IPAD or android tablets. They are more like phones and this is more advanced with real desktop and can't run visual studio and photoshop. PRO version is real x86. I think it's closer to air book than IPAD.
[Microsoft Surface] Primevyl:
+1

»Rezound on Nils' BusinessICS 2.3mg 'roids«
[Microsoft Surface] Creyni:
Yeah sure, looking back at my post it was a bit confusing. My point was it will kill of the iPad to people who want to use it to produce stuff like student's.

It wont kill of the iPad to couch surfers because people are fickle and want to buy into the apple magic. It's like the iPhone, android does much more but the amount of people who just want a iPhone because its "magical" is a lot.

I hope this explanation is better. :)
[Microsoft Surface] monkeyluis:
Why do people on these forums have to be so nasty to people who enjoy apple products. It's obvious that they have absolutely no clue what the iPad or iPhone can do. It really turns me off from the android community.
[Microsoft Surface] luigi90210:
most of us are not like that, its just the fanboys who are

tbh I don't think the ipad or android tabs will be killed off by the surface tablet or any windows 8 tab, I think they will be put into the 10% category while windows 8 tabs will be like the windows market shares, the only reason I say that is because people outside of this forum and ones like it are uneducated and when they need a new laptop or something the sales person will sell them something like the tfb or the acer w510

I just installed windows 8 on my acer w500 tablet and I love windows 8 but it wasn't the easiest thing to learn how to use, it took me a bit of practice before I could get the hang of it but once I did its even better than windows 7 or android could ever be.
[Microsoft Surface] thebobp:
Nasty, perhaps, but this comeback makes no sense. There are plenty of people who do know what the iPad/one can do, and who have opined this. e.g. this review (probably the most balanced we'll ever see, regarding such things).

Besides, the "magic" that comes with iDevices is real. For that reason alone, the iPad will be almost impossible to displace (the most its competitors can hope for is for it to be made irrelevant).
[Microsoft Surface] dazza9075:
one things for sure, MS has finally upped the game with their marketing, if they can pull off more of that video magic and keep it sustained it will become a common name like an iPad an iPhone

Pricing is key tho, its the one thing that can cripple sales IF MS can pull of the marketing (that's a big if considering its failed miserably for the last few decades!)

If I were MS sitting on a 40 odd Billion CASH then I would seriously consider subsidising first gen MS hardware to make it cheaper, it must win brand awareness and the best way to do that is to get the thing in the hands of as many people as possible as quickly as possible.

Once you have the brand then you can tighten the screws and make your money.
[Microsoft Surface] moe6:
I'm completely sold on the Surface Pro. It addresses all my tablet issues and addresses my desire for an ultra portable laptop.

I had been looking at ultrabooks lately and basically couldn't even decide between a 13" ultrabook or a 11" macbook air as they're basically priced the same here. One's a little more powerful, other is far more mobile. The Surface Pro is (or should be) more than powerful enough (or as powerful), is ultra portable and doubles as a tablet.

I should add that I do not consume much content on tablet devices other than reading, which is what I hope the Nexus 7 will be for me as one handed reading in a book like size is important to me. I've just realised that sounds like I'm going to read erotic novellas all the time hahahah.
[Microsoft Surface] dave888:
No one sees a possible problem with UEFI here?
[Microsoft Surface] Primevyl:
there is a slim, yet stark, distinction between "fan" and "fan boy". Your use of other products excludes you from the latter category.
[Microsoft Surface] ngocdao:
:confused:

Gtab 7 is 250

I just got a quad core teg3 tf300 for 400..

How much lower do you want it to go?
[Microsoft Surface] ngocdao:
SGS2 had highest global sales 2011
[Microsoft Surface] Dri94:
Explain
[Microsoft Surface] monkeyluis:
Compared to? I'm not sure your point.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2400625,00.asp

They sold 20 mil as of Feb.
[Microsoft Surface] aladdiniii:
Providing the Surface lives up to the hype, I can see it having major influence on the Android tablet market, the i-pad will continue to do well because of the Apple cult, but for us Android users, why own a Windows based laptop that lacks mobility and battery life and a tablet that has that but cannot perform the same tasks, if you can have one device that combines portability, battery life, enough power and an OS that supports all the programs you would need for professionally or for your entertainment?

I for one most likely will sell my HTC Jetstream and Vaio laptop and buy a pro-Surface, providing it is what Microsoft is promising.
[Microsoft Surface] dave888:
Well, It comes down to what you are doing with your tablet. It's a framework fo secure surface(windows). But it might will also prevent you from booting different things like OSs and Applications.

http://www.gev.com/2012/06/the-big-uefi-problem-happening/

At least I hope the PRO version comes with an OFF switch.
[Microsoft Surface] dazza9075:
So you pay a premium for a surface pro, then rip its heart out and install android? If your going to do that surely it would be cheaper buying any old thing without win8 on?

Personal computers are one thing, but an OEM built to spec tablet designed around RT is another, MS can do whatever it likes. If OEMs can't produce surface level hardware without windows I fail to see why MS should care? Locked down bootloaders on a computer that ISNT specific to Win8, ie, a desktop, is a different story.

How to tell the difference? RT is not a retail product, there for it is only designed for the hardware its installed on, you don't want winRT? Then buy different hardware.
[Microsoft Surface] SunnyChrono6:
Agree with vx117.Quad core i5 ivy bridge completely destroys the iPad 3 and probably the 3s too.But I've noticed a lot of electronics being called the 'killer' of other more popular devices(e.g. instinct for iphone as ngocdao stated,dell venue pro for torch[kind of an epic fail],etc.).Maybe it's unlucky?:P
[Microsoft Surface] jdep1:
I personally like the design & what MS has done with the OS but the only thing that will hold me from buying one is when other companies like samsung, sony.. develop there laptops around the same design, there will be no need for a tablet bc your laptop will also be a tablet so why buy an android tablet or ipad?
[Microsoft Surface] dave888:
This will also be available soon I guess. Not sure if its better or worse than surface. I guess its up to the buyer :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1QkscGrO4M
[Microsoft Surface] EShy:
I know a quite a few people who held back on the ipad because it was too limited for them. The surface, and the pro version in particular, could probably answer all the requirements they were missing.

The Surface Pro has the same internals as an ultrabook, It will probably run win8 better than my 2011 MacBook air and will have touch and pen inputs as well.

A Microsoft employee told me at a win8 event a few weeks ago that they expect win 8 tablets priced at 300$. he said it's not only the ipad they have to compete with. I think if that's what they expect the low end tablets to price at, you're looking at 400-500$ for the Surface RT.

The surface RT will be a lot like the ipad. It will be limited in the software you can run on it and even though I see a lot of interest in win8 metro development it probably won't get even close to the ipad app numbers on launch.

The only selling point for it seems to be the bundled office apps (which for many people would be enough)
[Microsoft Surface] monkeyluis:
What are they looking to do? The iPad is very capable. It has pretty much replaced my laptop.
[Microsoft Surface] Dri94:
I agree ipad is capable. But laptop replacement? That's farrrr lol. Ipad has nowhere near the power, and can't run programs, just apps from app store and cydia, no real operating system,. Surface gives yu the functionality of a laptop, in a tablet. Ipads are a more overblown smartphone (I will admit I love using them, there fun) than a laptop replacement. They can be seen as a replacement for a user who doesn't need power to run real programs, or real programs themselves. But basic things like browsing, word editing, presentations, and games.

Iphone,ipad,zuneHD,droid3 user.
[Microsoft Surface] abdhoms:
iPad killer? Sounds good to me.

Surface was one of the biggest announcements in Microsoft's history. Surface's coming with a revolutionary new Operating System, the Windows 8 (and RT) with Live Tiles. Surface has best in class hardware: can be seeing as a laptop replacement on this end. These are just some of the many features that Surface offer.

With all the features that makes this tablet different from iPad and other tablets, agree with me or not, I can clearly guarantee you guys that this surely is the iPad killer if marketed well. :)
[Microsoft Surface] Dri94:
I think biggest thing might also be apps. If the iphone didn't have all those apps, it would be ****, microsoft store doesn't have many, they need major dev attention to bring the device up too
[Microsoft Surface] Leafdruyd:
Hard to have an iPad killer, but I hope it will :)
[Microsoft Surface] monkeyluis:
Nothing will be an anything killer. Different tech for different people. Everyone has their own needs.
[Microsoft Surface] Dri94:
Expecially iPad killer, competitor would be better name. Apple fanboys are diehards. They wont be persuaded with better specs. They need something that'll look prettier and be simpler with only specs that are easy to unserstand like screen and speed updated
[Microsoft Surface] monkeyluis:
I'm an apple fanboy & I have a galaxy S III. Whoa! Head explosion. I'm also an android fanboy.

Your stereotype is flawed.
[Microsoft Surface] Dri94:
Then your a fan, notta fanboy. I have an ipod touch 4g also, its awesome, for apps. I mean fanboy as purely appl
[Microsoft Surface] ohgood:
Unfortunately, its not going to compete either. Google just pushed a kickin $200 tablet, ipads have users on lockdown, and there isn't any middle ground to be had for microsoft.

Not to mention they bungled the preview, didn't provide preorders, and don't have a finished unit FOR SALE NOW on the shelf.

Watch for zune like sales.

Unfortunately, only amazon can hold a candle to the ipad.
[Microsoft Surface] Dri94:
I think it will in professional markets do better, but yea they announced ti so early to leave us waitin and let the high amount of hype they surprisingly had die down. Now all microsoft news is back to lame non news worthy stuff. But the actual device (just like the zune hd back then) had more than enough specs to compete... oh and apps, they need more apps
[Microsoft Surface] skr_xd:
Hope surface don't become Microsoft killer in the end:D
[Microsoft Surface] valfis86:
I think i will buy one of these tablets :D
[Microsoft Surface] samsgun357:
I must say this looks awesome! I love the kick stand and changeable keyboard. This is a full function tablet with accessories included. I see it taking a bite out of netbook market. If you can dual boot Android OS, than I'm in 4 sure! The only scary thing could be price point, keep it under $500 and it will be a game changer!

Let's skip the chick flick moment..
[Microsoft Surface] Celvin-:
i LOVe this Video Surface ist a great Tablet it looks very Nice :good:
[Microsoft Surface] ohgood:
$500 will mean a no sale.

$249 is a maybe.

Other tablets are much cheaper, and bluetooth keyboards work great with them.
[Microsoft Surface] samsgun357:
I believe two versions will be available. I'm talking about the pro version with W8 and Intel i5 128gb etc. Either way definitely needs to be under $500 for "pro" and under $300 for other.

Let's skip the chick flick moment..
[Microsoft Surface] samsgun357:
Wow thanks @Droff some great points and a lot of info! Still curious about the possibility of dual boot, Android or less preferred but still cool Ubuntu. What can definitely be said is the world of tablet tech is really starting to take off. I hope to see the kickstarter project Chameleon UI soon as well!

Let's skip the chick flick moment..
[Microsoft Surface] ohgood:
how it will play out on the sales floor:

"Does it sync to my iphone?"

No

"Do all the apps from my wp7 phone work on it, ya know, just -there- from the market?"

No

"Do all my apps from microsoft/xp/vista/7/anyos work on the cheaper one?"

No

"Does it run office, ya know, offline ?"

No

"Is it 3g or 4g like my ipad?"

No

Then trying to explain that windows 7 apps work on this one, but not that one, and it doesn't have netflix (remember the presentation crash?) Yet, or dlna, or hdmi out ( I really don't know about that one), or bluetooth, or wifi tethering, or adhoc, or....

"Where do I plop down $599 for that wonderful ipad already?"

Over there, sir.
[Microsoft Surface] Donny1987:
What the hell do you want to sync from your iPhone to a Windows tablet? If it's files then just use Dropbox for example.

Can you run iOS apps on your OSX machine? No

Don't compare apples with oranges.

This is not really a question that they would ask, and companies will use the Pro version not the RT version.

Surface RT comes WITH Office 15 on it, and you can install Office on the Pro.

You could use a mobile internet USB stick.

All in all, you're an Apple fanboy who's trying to make the Surface look bad... go play with your iPad and iPhone and leave us alone :cyclops:
[Microsoft Surface] ohgood:
you are mistaken about the fanboyism.

You make good points about my flawed comparison, but fail to understand those questions are exactly what the current crop of consumers will be asking.

The form factor will confuse izombies as to what the surface actually is good at.
[Microsoft Surface] astrocowboy:
Surface RT. simply fantastic.

]Reviving this thread with an entertaining video. The video is too good not to share.

http://youtu.be/DHh7PunrjB8
[Microsoft Surface] pauliusba:
It does run Windows 8 apps and it does run full Office offline.
[Microsoft Surface] jtg007:
It also DOES support HDMI out.
[Microsoft Surface] netham45:
This thread is so old that the release specs hadn't been confirmed when it was posted.
[Microsoft Surface] Race2Speed:
That vid was awesome.
[Microsoft Surface] ohgood:
(man that post was old!)

despite them marketing hype, office is not the amazing sales tool it is touted to be. I've never, ever seen anyone crying for office.

w8 apps, another snooze. if w8 sales are ever released, they'll be just as pitiful as surfaceRT/PRO were, combined.

blue will be the savior for microsoft, if they finally ditch metro.

oh wait, they don't even want it called metro anymore. that's confidence inspiring,eh ?
[Microsoft Surface] schettj:
You don't live in an office office I guess. It would be about as useless as an iPad to me without office and one note.
[Microsoft Surface] C-Lang:
Woah there... Have you ever been a student? Office is a KILLER selling point. Nothing really compares to Office, and having it preloaded is awesome. Also, Blue will not ditch the Modern UI, and despite the slow sales, "Metro" is what will bring Microsoft into the new age, and keep them in the running in the future. Oh, and they haven't called it Metro since way before Windows 8/RT launched.
[Microsoft Surface] SixSixSevenSeven:
C-Lang. MS might not have called the start screen metro since before windows 8 and RT launched, but this thread is also from way hack before windows 8 and RT launched and the surface had only just been unveiled.

Seriously, can a mod lock this already.
[Microsoft Surface] ohgood:
yes actually, I am now. openoffice, kingoffice, polaris office, and a few others do everything. everything. without the ribbon and pricetags. I won't mention how handicapped microsofts own phones are, with their own version of office.

the students and faculty I see are huffing and rolling their eyes each time office has an issue.
[Microsoft Surface] GoodDayToDie:
The students and faculty at my school were also using citations and automatic bibliographies, embedded speadsheets and audio clips, and the Track Changes feature. Or rather, the faculty were using and expecting these features, and woe to the student who couldn't use them (the school computers have Office, of course, but they're slow and often crowded nonetheless). None of the options you've listed (including Office for Windows Phone, although that's still better than what's on iPhones or Android phones) get anywhere near full support for all three of those features.
[Microsoft Surface] ohgood:
well, you got me. I've been using free alternatives for so long I didn't know I had to have those three features.

editing works on my phone, as does saving to the filesystem, so I think ill be a dinosaur a little longer.
[Microsoft Surface] DR.vimlesh:
Till now it is came in our knowledge Microsoft Surface is not going to kill iPad. iPad sells are still going fine. Not a major effect of Microsoft Surface tablet.
[Microsoft Surface] e.mote:
Not an iPad killer, but the upcoming Surface RT 8" may be a desktop killer. With controls now consolidated in Blue, and assuming Gemini (Metro'fied Office) makes the launch date, there's no longer any justification for desktop in RT.

That was a major criticism of RT, the schizophrenia of having a dual UI w/ desktop being used as an overblown launchpad for Office. Streamlining the UI and code by removing the desktop would be a high priority for improvement. Even if Gemini can't make the date, Office isn't a compelling value on an 8" w no keyboard anyway, so again the desktop isn't needed.

I see RT eventually merging with WP, since the two will end up being functionally the same, just with different screen sizes. Maybe MS will resurrect the old Windows Mobile namesake.

Some are hoping to see "unlocked" desktop apps (aka sideloading) for RT 8.1. I think it'll be the other way, that the desktop itself will disappear on ARM, and RT will be plain Windows, whereas the x86 rev will become Windows "Legacy" or "Classic". Metro fans should be happy.
[Microsoft Surface] netham45:
Honestly, if they dumped the desktop in Blue for RT I would seriously consider abandoning the platform.
[Microsoft Surface] SixSixSevenSeven:
I just think the wall needs some dynamite throwing at it by Microsoft. We should be able to run desktop applications without the jailbreak.

Legacy applications can't be solved. Its simple 1+1=2 that existing x86 applications won't work on ARM but Microsoft just need to make that clear to consumers. Applications can still be ported of course.

I think windows RT needs to literally be windows 8 on ARM rather than what it already is. Windows RT netbooks and ultrahooks are also an option instead of pure tablets or convertibles.
[Microsoft Surface] xboxfanj:
Microsoft could easily make a compatibility layer similar to how Apple made the Rosetta compatibility layer when switching from power PC to Intel.
[Microsoft Surface] SixSixSevenSeven:
Emulating a RISC CPU on a CISC CPU is generally easier than emulating a CISC CPU on a RISC architecture. PowerPC and ARM are both RISC. x86 is CISC. PowerPC emulation on x86 should be easier than x86 on ARM, there is of course alot more to it than that. Rosetta was hardly a speed demon itself, my dad had an 800MHz PowerPC mac, when he then ran his copy of adobe on his newer 2GHz intel based mac it was slow and laggy.

x86 emulation on ARM would be even laggier. Go look in the RT dev and hacking section at the windows x86 emulator. Most advanced game to be run in it: Age Of Empires. That is years old. If MS included the ability to run x86 apps on ARM then chances are consumers being consumers wont realise that it will be incredibly slow and will start complaining about how they are struggling to get skyrim or something ridiculous running on their little RT's. If Microsoft then introduced a black and white: Windows 8 runs x86 programs, Windows RT runs ARM, then they can just point consumers to the back of the box where it says compatibility: Windows XP, vista, 7 or whatever and then tell them that it wont work on RT. No need to confuse consumers with x86 emulation.
[Microsoft Surface] xboxfanj:
That's true. I didn't think of it that way.
[Microsoft Surface] netham45:
Intel had the advantage of being far more powerful than PPC. While they could do an emulation layer it wouldn't work fast enough for most people so if they used it as a marketing gimmick similar to how Apple did people would be disappointed.
[Microsoft Surface] e.mote:
Here's another reason RT needs to ditch the desktop: It needs a crash diet to fit into 16GB, with enough left over for user data (so, about 8GB). Lower pricing is key for smaller tab sizes, and 32GB is a no-go.

MS tried the PC+ thing last year and it didn't work. Going premium again would guarantee another big belly flop. Even if MS go toe-to-toe on price, chances are less than good that RT will fly. Its value prop hasn't changed. The App Store is still a POS.

Win8 (or 8.1) itself needs a major haircut, but that doesn't look to happen from the leaked x86 Blue, so we're still looking at 64GB realistically for x86 toys. Let's hope vendors get the memo and offload those system restores onto USB.

So, let's call it for MS' fall line-up: Surface RT 8" 16GB for $250; Surface RT 10" 16GB for $350; Surface Atom (Bay Trail) 32GB for $450. The latter two get the $75 keyboard cover option.

Office 2013 is replaced by a free 1-yr sub to Office 365 (Metro-fied version). Edu peeps get free upgrade to 4-yr Office sub. If sub isn't renewed, then user gets bumped over to freebie Office Web Apps.
[Microsoft Surface] e.mote:
Speaking of premium pricing, apparently XBox720 will be priced at $500, or $300 for a "subscription model" (ie requiring 2-yr XBox Live Gold sub). The box will require always-on Internet, and reportedly won't have backward compatibility with existing games. This last will be the province of a separate $99 Xbox360 release. These will be announced on May 21, and be launched in Nov.

My reaction--WTF!--is same as when MS announced Surface RT pricing. Not sure what reefer these dudes are toking, but apparently the legalized pot there is being put to good use. From this and other indications, then little has changed in MS mindset, and "I Drink Your Milkshake!" is still the watchword.

Allow me to bump up my projected Surf pricing each by $50 to match MS' thinking: $300 for Surf RT 8", $400 for Surf RT 10", $500 for Surf Atom.

I'll be interested in what transpires for MS this year--the same morbid fascination that you have in watching a train wreck happening in slow motion. Can we see some gore? May be a dismembered body part or two?

For all you Evil Deadites out there, here's your chance to watch the unrated IRL version. There will be blood.