yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] awrnsmn:
Nope....I'm officially done with Windows phone now. Still have my radar, but I think Microsoft is screwing the pooch again. There's no way they didn't no that wp8 would not run on all the new phones that came out. So what did they do...they keep it hush hush as to rather current phones would get wp8 until after they sold a ton of them to consumers. Bad move Microsoft! I see WP going the same way as Palm did. Just my opinion though. (I was excited when 7.5 came out and jumped back onboard with them....lesson learned)
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
How do you figure? Name me one single device that doesn't work today as it did back when it was released, say, back in 2003. A WM2003 PDA can still surf the web, fetch emails and anything else it did back then. A Palm Treo 650 can still do what it did in '04 even with that crap Blazer browser. Sorry pal, you and everybody else who's crying over their spilled Lumias, are beyond overreacting. My analogy is spot on.
[Windows Phone 7 General] GnatGoSplat:
You can't relate a smartphone to a car, because what you do with a car this year, next year, and 10yrs from now, is exactly the same - get from point A to point B. Roads will get repaved, new roads will be built, but your old car will still function.

Smartphone is like a PC. Its usefulness depends on being able to run newer software. Is your WM2003 PDA or Palm Treo 650 going to render today's web pages correctly? Will it support flash or HTML5? It could run the current apps as of 2003, but will it run current apps of 2012? Smartphone is nothing like a car, it's like a computer. You CAN drive to work in a 1968 Camaro. You CAN'T watch Youtube videos on a Commodore 64.

No, I'm not crying over the Lumia, I don't have one. I just think your analogy is silly, that's all.
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
You can't have your cake and eat it too. You want a phone you bought today to be able to run software that hasn't been created yet. Run scripts that haven't been dreamed of yet and have hardware to run whatever gets developed 10 years from now. My point was to address the whiners on this board who think they have a useless brick. No, it serves the purpose for which it was designed and for the technology of the day. No company, in any industry, has ever marketed a product that will serve future purposes. It is YOUR thinking that is flawed beyond all comprehension.

You better enjoy that '68 Camaro and hope that there are still parts available for it in 2022. Otherwise you'll be buying a 2022 Camaro or riding with the windows down.
[Windows Phone 7 General] McHale:
I'm fully behind Microsoft's entire decision and upgrade path provided they give 7.8 all of the features in 8.0 that our devices can run without hassle or conflict. It's ridiculous to get upset over OS changes that are dependent on different hardware as well as being upset that they have moved to a new core.

-Mc
[Windows Phone 7 General] GnatGoSplat:
No, not exactly. I agree the pace of technology the way it is, 10yrs is an unreasonable expectation for a smartphone (yet perfectly reasonable for a car so your analogy doesn't work).

However, I do think 2-years is a reasonable expectation. This isn't just an end to OS updates, it's the death of an entire platform in under 2-years. I can definitely sympathize with those who are upset. I would be too, especially if I were stuck with a 2yr contract.
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
You are either too young or were not alive back in the late 70's when the Federal Government outlawed leaded gas. In one fell swoop, owners of pre-1975 cars were screwed! Sure, with some modifications they could run on unleaded but it was a suck-ass experience.

There is no such thing as a reasonable expectation other than your warranty period. Get used to that idea so you don't get hurt in the future. That goes for anybody else reading this.
[Windows Phone 7 General] GnatGoSplat:
Actually, I'm pretty old. People weren't exactly "screwed", there were (and are) additives to prevent valve seat wear from unleaded gas so no modifications were required. Even without using additives, the valve wear would occur over a long time and depending on how the car was driven, could still last longer than the body. Either way, it's not a good comparison to smartphones because there was at least a way to keep those cars running on modern roads using modern fuel whereas there will be no way to keep WP7 phones running modern apps.

I'm not saying Microsoft isn't fully in their right to abandon WP7 phones and users, but I think it's a pretty crappy thing to do when you benchmark them against other smartphone companies like Apple who at least keeps the major OS updates rolling for phones that are 1, 2, and even 3-years old.
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
Whoever said MS is abandoning their users? I haven't read that anywhere. Even Windows Mobile 6.5 was EOL'd only recently, some 2-1/2 years after release. Someone mentioned MS turning into another Palm, yet webOS is still getting incremental updates and they HAVE been abandoned, Leo Apotheker said so loud & clear. I'm certainly not defending MS but I do like to state the facts. And the facts are: nobody knows jack.... right now.

BTW, additives were only a temporary solution for pinging until you upgraded the ignition with a hotter coil and eventually installed hardened valve seats and upgraded valve guides at the next cyl. head job. The lead in the gas was used as a lubricant and once it was taken away, you had hot spots in your combustion chamber which lead to the degradation of other components. I may not be a developer but I am an ASE Certified tech.
[Windows Phone 7 General] henry084:
Though I have the 1st gen device and I hate iTunes, I have to reconsider should I get a WP8 device or an iPhone 5.
[Windows Phone 7 General] GnatGoSplat:
MS said so, they've said no WP7 phone will be upgradeable to WP8. WP7 won't run WP8 apps. It doesn't have to be officially EOL, when everything is WP8, WP7 will be just as dead as Windows Mobile 6.5. New apps that run on WP7 and app updates will start to dry up. Everyone knows this, it's why Nokia's stock price plunged to a 16-year low.

I'm glad I don't have a real WP7 phone, as I'd be trying to unload it on eBay ASAP before I have to give it away.
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
Okay, we're close to agreeing. Yes, we all know that WP8 will not run on current phones. But we don't know how long the Mango Tango updates will go on. There's a Ted Nugent flashback going on right now inside my head. As for Nokia, don't put too much stock in Wall Street, no pun intended. Speculators have, and will continue to, destroy our markets for their own greedy benefit.

I no longer have a WP7 phone simply because it doesn't have the functionality I need. Only WM6.x has everything I NEED, but short on what I want. WP7 is vice-versa.
[Windows Phone 7 General] dazza9075:
or a more sensible less alarmist outlook would be that developers would continue to write for WP7.x for the time being and use MS built in porting that's said to transfer what, +80% (?) to WP8 meaning significantly less work needed porting it with the added bonus of maintaining their cash flow

It would make absolutely no financial sense in writing for an OS and completely ignoring the ~80% similar previous OS.

The only issues I see will be probably around the game issues, its not going to happen on WP7.

In short whilst there is still a profitable user base on the WP7 markets there will be apps released on it (with the possible exception of Games)

To do otherwise would be financial suicide in the short term, and even long term makes little sense until it ceases to be profitable.
[Windows Phone 7 General] McHale:
FYI, I was able to buy leaded gasoline where I live until 1996 and I can still buy lead additive. I drive a 1935 Ford, all original that runs on leaded gasoline. I've made NO modifications to the engine and have no problem filling my tank with gas. So this is really a bad example.

As far as WP7 is concerned, it's FAR from being dead. Apps are STILL being created for it, apps that exist are still being supported and even through WP8, apps will be created that are compatible for WP7. Most people will have moved to WP8 through natural progression before WP7 apps dry up (just as people will have replaced their cars that run on unleaded before leaded gasoline was extinct).
[Windows Phone 7 General] mikeeam:
Why people keep compairing phones with cars? Seriously?!

Phones you change every year, or every two year. A 3 year phone is pretty old. A 3 year car is almost new. Cars are made to last 10 times more than a phone. Car is pretty much about hardware and design. No one really cares if it can sing the weather for you. Also, you dont expect to buy a car and have updates to it.

No one is complaining about Lumia's hardware or design. People are complaining because Lumia was launched 3 months ago in some countries (mine included), and will not receive a single major update. Android does that too, yeah, but everybody expect it from that screwed OS. No one promises updates. But you can still try it from unlocked roms.

If Nokia release my bootloader too, among those [sarcasm] really nice apps [/sarcasm], I will be happy. Now, Microsoft was bullying Google with fragmentation, beta testers, etc, when it goes and do worse. Google provides the software and nothing more. Its not even paid. It depends more on OEM than Google.

Microsoft, in other hand..

Whatever. We can discuss here for eternity, whine for eternity, Microsoft made her sht, so lets deal with it. You dont like it? You are free to go to Android and iPhone. Android you will suffer with the same thing. iPhone you dont have this problem, but in other hand, you have a 7 years old system that does what you want but without Metro look and feel. It does much more than WP, to be honest.

I'm really tired of iOS look. I dont want an app launcher either. Android is laggy even with quad-core. Its a mess. But it works even better than iPhone, since you can change everything.

But I will get a WP8. Not because MS was made it right. Hope the one who made this decision get shot in the balls. But it's the only OS I do like now.

Lets stop this discussion and hope MS bring some features other than start screen.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Dragon Queen:
The concerns I have are, how much performance that is so loved on WP7 are we going to sacrifice in WP8. Will we need high speed cores to get smoothness? What is going to happen to our battery life also?
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Nah, no sacrifice will happen. Its Microsoft, and software is their business. It'll be smooth as a newborns bottom.
[Windows Phone 7 General] george232:
Gen 1 user and will probably buy a WP 8, Android and iOS just aren't my cup of tea. That said, I'd be super pissed if I bought an Lumia and would not get WP 8.
[Windows Phone 7 General] McHale:
Would you have been less pissed if they called 7.8 "WP8 minus incompatible features) which either is more honest than what Apple does with iOS?

Had Microsoft merely called WP7.8 "WP8" nobody would be complaining right now. And when it is released they just explain that the features not included were not included because of performance issues and they wanted to make sure everything added was fast, smooth, and consistent.

-Mc
[Windows Phone 7 General] ZetaZynK:
Owning a HTC Titan.

I feel somewhat betrayed by Microsoft in that, WP8 delivers some features that could be definitely be ported to WP7 devices, like the VoIP API. It's somewhat a terrible UX if you're selling people a $500 device that can't run Skype in the background which every $100 Android ultra-low end device can do and then tell them "your phone's hardware is too low-end for that!".

Aside from not porting Skype and IE10 which I believe are political decisions (IE9 runs already on the phones, IE10 is an evolutionary upgrade - nobody can upright tell me that Vista isn't good enough for IE10 either), I kind of like my phone.

Sure, it's terribly overpriced for the hardware it ships. But WP7 has a few apps that are very important to me (like an excellent public transit app for Germany) that makes it fine for me.

As Titan owner, it's okay with me. I guess if you own a Lumia 900 the story is different: "Here, have this $600 device ... (4 months later)... hahaha, your phone isn't good enough for any technology now! Why not spend another $600 for a new phone?"

Rather, what keeps me being skeptical about WP8 is the UEFI Secure Boot addition: It could likely mean that there's a chain of trust beginning at the firmware which would make current unlocks like HSPLs directly impossible. Windows on ARM requires UEFI Secure Boot to be forced on with non-exchangeable keys, so you can be certain that this will be exactly the same on WP8. Now, WP7 had some terrible bugs for me and I lost my data twice because I had to reset my phone (although the 2nd reset was rather a reflash with a custom ROM).

I had switched my Live ID from a 3rd party provider to Live, but it remained the same account -> Forced reset as I couldn't rebind the Live ID to its new credentials.

Then, over time, my phone suddenly consumed a massive amount of battery in idle (? no idea why, I'm running now a custom ROM with the same drivers and the same apps and this isn't happening ?), it got some apps stuck in the marketplace updating forever (in that, the app in question was always displaying on an older version in the marketplace on the phone - in the web one it did not. However, my phone told me ever 6 hours on the store tile an update for the app would be available.), and some calendar sync issues which kind of forced me to reset (reflash) again.

Now, if WP8 delivers more control over your data and delivers features that so far only homebrew apps (like Snotify) can bring, it's ok for me without root access or an unlock. Otherwise I'll get Android.

For now however, I'll keep my phone since I don't see any need to upgrade to a new phone solely for IE10 and Skype in background.
[Windows Phone 7 General] GnatGoSplat:
Huh? Wouldn't make sense to call 7.8 WP8-anything when it won't run WP8 apps. How is 7.8 anything like "WP8 minus incompatible features" if it won't run WP8 apps at all? A WP7.8 phone isn't any more a WP8 phone than a Chinese dual-SIM clone running a WP8 lookalike OS that doesn't really run any WP8 apps (they don't exist yet, but I'm sure they will). If Microsoft called WP7.8 "WP8 anything", it would be a lie. I don't believe anyone is complaining about new features that don't work on old phones, they're complaining about WP8 changing the Windows Phone architecture making the old phones obsolete and unable to run new WP8 apps.

Also, in what way is Apple dishonest with iOS?
[Windows Phone 7 General] kwill:
Posted this in another thread.

I think some folks miss the point. It's not about how fast tech moves, or how other OS's don't advertise\offer upgrades after buying a phone, etc. It's plain and simple, MSFT\Nokia hyped a device that will soon be behind the times of itself when wp8 comes out. We're talking 6 mths at most. Sure, it'll be a great device still and I love mine. HOWEVER, I also loved my Titan and would've been perfectly fine waiting for WP8 devices to drop instead of wasting an upgrade for a phone that was pretty much the same as what I had. I was depending on just mosying on along with the updates to add functionality and finally had a perfect device to which I could ignore some of the missing functionality until MSFT released updates. I'll probably buy wp8 also because I love WP in general and I've bought 3 devices (1First gen and 2 second gen), but it doesn't excuse the fact they shouldn't have hyped it up like this phone would be SOOO relevant in the movement. The only relevance it has now is that it's just a great phone, but by the end of the year, there will be better, more functional units (which is not what people expected when it released). My Titan and HD7 are still relevant, good phones, 2 yrs later and I didn't expect my Lumia to be the phone that would have future WP features that weren't dependent on particular hardware. But, I also didn't expect newer devices and complete revamp of the OS to come within 6 mths of a flagship, HIGHLY advertised device.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MikeyMike01:
This is the proper reaction to all this.

Sent from my SGH-I777
[Windows Phone 7 General] henry084:
Skype in background.......let's see how Viber goes, as they are now working on the VoIP part for current WP7.X devices. Skype should learn a bit from it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ZetaZynK:
Viber is a marketplace application - how would they implement VoIP in the background?

I wouldn't expect any major improvements to Skype on WP7 in that regard..
[Windows Phone 7 General] kenikh:
I have a Lumia 900. I'll be buying a WP8 device. But I'm a device whore.
[Windows Phone 7 General] McHale:
I'm with you brother...
[Windows Phone 7 General] henry084:
Good question, I would also like to know.

Read the latest post of this link, no joking.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1642349

I am not sure if there is something hiding under WP7.8, or they can implement by other methods.

But I have read the update of Tango, which consists of 2 steps.

One is the preparation step 8112, another is 8773.

Someone said certain amount of API was opened during Mango update, not sure if it has something to do with the update 7403. So the same idea can be applied to 8112.

(Would it bring some preparation step before WP7.8 is being implemented?)
[Windows Phone 7 General] ZetaZynK:
IE9 runs on WP7 and Vista. Do you believe that IE10 is so much different from it that it can't run on Vista or WP7 if 9 could? The differences Vista + Platform Upgrade vs 7 are negligible.

Same for the VoIP API. This is easily doable if they want to port it.

If they just ported these two things, I (and I believe many others) were happy with it. Yet, these are evidently features that WP urgently needs, WP7 devices could support, but never are going to see.

Also, as it's related, let me quote Mary J. Foley here:
[Windows Phone 7 General] McHale:
Ugh... Mary J... I don't trust 10% of what she says.

I agree with you. There's no excuse for not giving us the Gen 1 and Gen 2 friendly features unless it's just a matter of "meh... why bother"

I just hope people chill out a little until AFTER 7.8 is pushed. We don't know for sure what it's going to get. Could be everything, could be nothing. I'm not sure Microsoft is 100% sure at this point.

-Mc
[Windows Phone 7 General] wardoc22:
I will buy one in a few years when my 710 reaches the end of its life.
[Windows Phone 7 General] jasongw:
Calling it "WP8 for old phones" is essentially a **** move that Apple does. Sure, they say "oh look, we're giving iOS version X to old devices too!" and then what do they deliver? A gimped version that provides fewer features and is so bloated that it ruins performance of the device.

I have two words for that approach: "****" and "that." I'm fine with what MS has done. They had good reason (Windows 8 Phone is a NEW OS, it is not just a retread of the existing OS with a few new tidbits tacked on) and they're doing the right thing by giving 7x users the sexy new interface, after they've improved the OS with each and every update, making it faster, more optimized and better performing.

I'll take the Microsoft approach over the Apple approach ANY day. A few years back, Apple fooled me: I bought iPhone, iPad, and even a Macbook Pro. I'll never buy Apple again.
[Windows Phone 7 General] andyl66:
The longer I'm on android the more certain I am that ill buy a wp8 device. I still use my hd7 constantly and that's over 2 years old. All photos I take on my one x are uploaded to my skydive account and I use the hd7 to edit them and upload to facebook/Flickr.

Android is nothing but a file manipulation device, it has zero use of cloud storage accept as a storage facility, it takes my one x over 5 mins to dl just the thumbnails of my skydive photos, and once I leave the skydive app the thumbnails are not cached so I have to sit there again for 5 mins the next time I want to see them. Oh and if I want to edit a photo on the cloud I have to dl it first, then switch to an editing app, then save it locally again, then switch to another app to upload it to cloud, then if I want to view it I have to switch to another app and wait 5 mins yet again for the thumbnail, then click it and it downloads. It's a total joke.

YES. Wp8, yes yes yes yes yes a thousand times yes.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lugi93:
Ofcourse i will :good:
[Windows Phone 7 General] Erazor84:
I will buy a WP8 device, because i spent more than 300€ in Apps ... if i change the OS, i must buy all apps again. that's not what i want. but before i buy a new wp8 phone, i will use my lumia 800 as long as i can. especially after the 7.8 update.
[Windows Phone 7 General] addicus:
If TMobile USA gets a real device (something with a 4.3 or bigger screen) like the Titan, Titan II or Lumia 900 size wise, the answer is yes.

I still have my HD2 and run Mango on it. No complaints with the majority (99%) of the features for me. I'm not mad at the decision to move forward, because they are truly moving forward. Generation I & II devices aren't getting the update because the kernel dictates better hardware.

Compare this with having a Tytn II and not getting WM 6.5 simply because the carrier said f you. Look in the old forums and see how we used to get absolutely no software updates for phones that were more than capable of using them and would have actually improved with the updates.

I would just like for people to treat Microsoft like you do Apple and Google. Stop beating them down for the same decisions the other companies make. Stop acting as if they aren't in business.

Do I expect a Win 8 Phone to go obsolete in 2 years? No, but it may happen. Just like the DDR2 ram in my motherboard on the pc I'm typing with this is basically obsolete even though it works. Technology improves and early adopters pay for it to happen.
[Windows Phone 7 General] henry084:
WP8 phone can use all WP7.X apps you have bought, just not vice versa.;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] Erazor84:
i know that. with "change the OS" i mean android or iOS. ^^
[Windows Phone 7 General] NebZoNe:
I will probably look for a wp8 device next year, for now there are one hd7 and one radar at home, many games/apps bought...

now i know MS is leaving us on the dark side of the road I won't spend anymore cts for them xbla market...

I will support devs instead (the only serious part in wp7)

and will feel no guilty conscience concerning pirating xbla games!!! (my turn to exploit people who exploited me)
[Windows Phone 7 General] MikeyMike01:
Go ask the PSP owners how that turned out.

Sent from my SGH-I777
[Windows Phone 7 General] McHale:
Blame HTC, not Microsoft. It's because of their constant dropping support that I will not buy another HTC device again now that Nokia is in the game.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ HTC was one that actually did provide ruu updates. HTC, Da G, DFT, and a few others around here were the only reasons we got updates.
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
If anybody's to blame it's the carriers. No factory update gets sent out unless the carrier approves it. This was a huge problem on webOS because AT&T wouldn't release updates that were available globally. This is why I prefer to buy factory unlocked devices when possible. Palm, Dell & HP were great for that. Unfortunately, only Dell made WP7 phones and they're now out of the phone business, again.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vel0city1:
I honestly don't care too much either way about the update, as my contract will be up right around the same time as WP8's launch. Time to get a new device anyways!
[Windows Phone 7 General] Arthur Hucksake:
Next May time I will have a good luck at WP8 and see what the app development is like. If the uptake of official app support is there, I will go for it.

Otherwise, back to Android or possibly the next iPhone (if the screen is over 4")
[Windows Phone 7 General] ckacey:
Have both HD7 and Lumia 710, will get WP8 Device, hopefully I can get 1280*768 rather than 720p.