yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[About XDA developers] benjamin.j.goodwin:
I think a point we have briefly mentioned but not completely acknowledged is XDA itself and how it's used.

XDA wasn't always the biggest site for development and probably won't always be, but I think it is quite clear hopefully we can all agree that it is at the moment. So how? Well other than the growing popularity alone XDA has had to change and adapt to users 'wants' and 'needs'. Whether we like it or not, the general populous is sold to 24/7 from the moment they open their eyes and all forms of society feel now that you need to 'sell' whatever for it to be accepted. Have a troll through some forums and that's exactly what is happening here and I think it is merely a react to a 'demand' seen from the new 'generation'. Thread titles act as a small platform to engage the user to your thread; shouldn't it just tell you what's in the thread as title should - Does it really need to state it's the fast, best, most improved, best etc. Do you really know that for every user it is anyway? Then go to the threads themselves, many users demand extra 'wanting', 'needing' many different things not understanding this is a community to share the work you do outside your own life. (I do understand that this isn't every user but this number is growing).

When I first used this site I remember feeling frustrated at times if the said base I was using had bugs and/or wasn't updated to quash these but I didn't go and flame, scream about it I either choose another where the individual had more time, lived with the bug(s) OR I found a way to fix it myself. But I always understood and appreciated that this is no ones job and they should not be constrained in to feeling that they need to 'keep up with demand' and sell their work. You are just sharing what you enjoy to have on your own handset.

There is one rule that is being regularly dismissed these days and that's comparing developers work on their various threads, disrespecting the work they do. We need XDA to quash and hammer these things down (yes I know it's hard) so those of us that develop and/or have titles continue to set the right example.

XDA needs to give us the right guidelines but we have to provide the right attitude. We need a message sent clear of what this site is about and that will take XDA and the higher members to set the example so the newer members follow. :)
[About XDA developers] KidCarter93:
I couldn't agree more with the majority of what has been said in this thread. At the end of the day, if no dev was ever to have shared the work they had done, we would have none of the hacks and mods we have today. All these great roms, phone tweaks etc etc, wouldn't be around if something hadn't been shared originally, because then others couldn't have added their bits to it and so on.

Granted, I can understand why devs would want to be credited for the work they originally put into it, but the way I see it, there's absolutely no reason why they should be saying people can't use their work.

XDA will just continue to go downhill if this kind of attitude carries on and that is the last thing any of us want to happen

Sent from Sony Xperia S using XDA Premium

Join my threads here and here
[About XDA developers] roofrider:
It's great to see a few Devs saying Share.

Today there is a need for more clear cut rules for developers, any Dev (with RD title or not) who refuses to share his source code (n he did not write it from scratch) should be charged with felony.

The problem today is xda is filled with teens.

I envy those few when they say "I miss the old XDA", what did i do to not deserve it?

Sharing and Respect. I'm all for it.
[About XDA developers] :
Well, let me post something here as well.

Regarding sharing of my tweaks stuff:

Before I started to create our team and provide my own rom theres was an Tweaks app developed by my called leedroid tweaks.

This one I provided for public use and all devs that asked got the permission to use if after oe week of the official release to ensure that I got some activity in my thread and themers/devs dont include one hour later in all their roms and my thread don't get the deserved attention.

This tweaks app was developed my ME on the base of romanbbs desire hd tweaks...but well, besides the miui battery bar/battery tweaks all smali stuff needed to be rewritten by me..but well I dont claim them mine though.

I spent weeks and month to develop those stuff for several devices - Htc Evo 3D Cdma/gsm, htc sensation, Htc rezound, htc vivid, htc flyer, tc evo view 4g..without even having the device. My motivation? Sharing my stuff and contribute something xda.

Lots of devs included those tweaks and I granted for then 30-40 devs to include them...even most zip modders.

Since I got my own rom I discontinued my leedroid tweaks project, because it would be too time consuming to support them as well...my private life/freetime sucks already just with supporting the rom properly.

If you wanna have your own tweaks app...use my old leedroid tweaks as base and not the current from our roms...

And if you are able to implement stuff yourself then do it, if not..then dont just kang it by ctrl+c and ctrl+v.

FYI: ...still permissions required to use it and credits needs still to be given.

Your rom should present your skills and work you are able to do and not a ****load of copy paste stuff which you can find in the forums.

And tbh I couldnt be proud of my rom when I just using work of others in my roms...and this also has nothing to do with developing.

Keep in mind that we are on xda-developers and proper development should be supported and not 100 x 1:1 copys of the work of others. The proper developers make your experience of the device different and you should respect their work and not stamp with your feet on it...and risk that the developer even considers to leave xda.

You also dont want, that someone takes your rom, changes some build.prop entrys and release it under under a different name maybe weven without giving credits..you would go insane too if that would gonna happen I bet.

We all spending lots of our freetime and passion in our work and none of them deserves it to be offended by kanging their work.

It's just disrespectful...
[About XDA developers] MadCobbler:
I totally agree, a dev/rom maker should always give credit where credit is due.... but Russ also made the best point... if there is only one way to do something, eventually loads of people are gonna end up at the same point, using the 'same code/smali edits' to get to what they want done, this doesn't mean they copied your work, it just means they they ended up with the same conclusion as you, 'that is the only way to get it done'

At the end of the day its all very confusing territory, there is no distinct black and white just lots of grey areas and there are some people that use the grey areas to their advantage...
[About XDA developers] :
Well, let me explain something about programming/smali:

If you got an idea, you can implement it in 99% in several different ways...if you cant it just shows that you are not able/have the knowledge to write it yourself. And when you dont have it, you cant help youself out by just kanging it.

Take a look at romansbb code and mine...most of them is implemented by me in another way..the smali doesnt look similar in any way.

Indeed there are some minor things in smali that cant be really implemented different. Let me give you an example:

enabling landscape mode in rosie:

the feature is already given by htc and just deacivated ba a build flag.

you can bypass that buildflag by simply hardcode it by returning

const/4 vNumber, 0x1 before the return statment.

If you want to toggle it you have to write a bit more code..but still theres not much space left to write it much different...but there would be still space to to it.

Theres really no point to claim such simple code by a dev..and I dont do it.

But when m0narx or I implement stuff like hiding icons in rosie, choosing a background color/transparency or a backgroundimage for appdrawer/notification pulldown or adding longpres actions to some capacitive keys + remapping on the fly there are hundreds of possibilties to implement it in another way...and this didnt happen in the last kang.

Most of our implemented features requires not just 20 lines of smali code..and theres no way that each of that lines look 1:1 the same if you implement that idea yourself.

I know, iff you are not a programmer its difficult understand, but I know from what I'm talking and its no **** (-:
[About XDA developers] DutchDanny:
But why is it so hard to share.

Most devs don't mind giving credits.

My point of this thread is about sharing, and I still wonder why?

If you could/would like to answer that...

And give me/us the enlightenment on your thoughts.

Tnx

Send via my BinDroid XTC One X
[About XDA developers] roofrider:
@j4n87

But at the end of the day developers are developers and they own the kangers. Users can tell the difference between the 2, if not they are n00bs and u'll much happy if they don't use ur rom.

I just feel Developing, Sharing, and Mutual Respect goes a long way. It's for the greater good.

Edit: btw DutchDanny i'm out of thanks.
[About XDA developers] Goku80:
Danny the thing is mate if you created something awesome and it took you days to create even weeks, would you be happy to share with others? would you not want your rom to stand out more by having that app for yourself instead of sharing? cause if you share then most roms would end up being mostly the same. and this is not to offend any devs but the only roms that do stand out from the rest is cm9 which is build from scratch. yes you have different themes over most roms and that way some stand out from the rest. but deep down under all the skins you still have the same thing as the rest. were Jan took it that extra step ahead.

Jan has created something special for his rom. I can only understand the logic behind the reasons he does not want to share.

But maybe as a way round this if he was to share his work then why not add in the tweaks app that the donate button should go to Jan and his team. So that way not only he gets credit for the work but people can donate for the awesome work and maybe with donations and support the tweaks app could get better and bigger that is just another thought and way round it

it goes both ways though...i think what people forgetting is the word respect. that is what everything comes down to
[About XDA developers] shrome99:
@j4n87 - Let me start by saying that even if some here people may dislike you as a person, EVERYONE who knows about them respects your tweaks. I agree that LeeDroid Tweaks was a pretty big deal. You gave permission to other devs to use it, and now, almost all the ROMs for the supported devices use them. You probably didn't want the PKMN tweaks to become so ubiquitous, so you don't give permission to others to use them. You want the people who use them to know that your team made them, and spend a lot of time on it.

The thing you don't take into consideration is that themed ROMs like CoreDroid have a completely different user-base. There is a very small chance that people who like such ROMs would ever use stock-themed ROMs, like yours, because they just hate the green colouring scheme by HTC. Now, this is not a small change in the ROM, such stuff requires a LOT of PNG edits, and probably takes as much time to implement as it took for you to make your tweaks. Why, then would you not permit them to use your tweaks, when it would just increase the number of people with access to them? And what about devices that you don't (and probably don't plan to) support? Why should they not get to use your tweaks?

Think of it this way - you already have a credits tab in your tweaks app, allow other people to use it without messing with that tab, as long as they are doing something considerably different (support another device, theme the ROM etc.). Also, you can use whatever extra they may add to that, which would basically lead to the expansion of your work in general.

Again, no one can force you to do something/share your work, this was just a hypothetical example. I hope you understand :o

PS - It's really nice to see people from both sides here :)
[About XDA developers] :
I started to create my own rom, because I was bored of the roms floating around the hox forums...none of em got something superior than others..maybe just a few other colors/other scripts, but basically it was a stock rom and a few leedroid tweaks powered.

...and well if I would share my stuff this will gonna happen again.

As already said, you represent your rom with the skill/sknowledge you can put into it. If you just take stuff of others and got a 98/100 copy of another rom, where stays the personality of the rom your created?

You also dont see cars on the street that contains the same motors/interior just with another design/color.

Mercdes/audi or whatever car creator id proud of their developments and the differences they got to others..this should be apply for your rom to.

I couldnt be proud of a rom which is zip modded by copy pasting suff some things together.

Another problem is also, that when you include such stuff, by copy pasting in, you ar not able to fix things if something got a bug, because you maybe dont know even where to look and to fix it your are even less able.

So you got a buggy rom and have to wait for the original dev to fix it...I personally couldnt live with that dependency...

But well, as already said, with my permission you can use my old leedroid tweaks.

My tweaks for my current rom I take for us to keep my rom individual.

I also spent o much time in it with my m8s and dont see the reason why I shall give it do devs that can include it within an hour where I spent nearly a year on it get this baby that far enhanced how it is now.

And well you say sharing is caring...the thing is, I just shared things the last year, my tweak app is included into several roms on several devices...but never someone shared something with me? =D.

Well, badnewz did on sensation, thats why he got a light version of our tweaks, as well as shiz (ordroid) on sesantion. Also football gave us permission to use his base and I gave him in return the pemrission to use some of my work as well...it those cases I'm willing to share of course.
[About XDA developers] DutchDanny:
I took me months to create my skin in my current rom.

If people want to put it in their rom... Sure do

And Jan created tweaks before he had a rom. And he was sharing with some devs. I came to One X forum 2 weeks later, and asked Jan, he told me I was to late... :confused:

I respect everybody's work, as most do mine.

I am just disappointed on how things are these days on xda.

And like my OP, this was not directed to anybody.

I just wanted a discussion like the thread title says.

Send via my BinDroid XTC One X
[About XDA developers] Goku80:
apologies my post came out wrong. i know each devs respect one an other and my god you guys are amazing and i have been following your work for my previous handset as well my friend. apologies if you thought my post was rude.

what i am trying to say is if someone does not want to share then people should respect his decision. that is what i wanted to say.

i know we are xda and it is about sharing. but we have to agree though if someone puts hard work into something and they want it to stand out from the rest then we have to respect dev x decision if he does not want to share.

and sharing is what makes the rom development more special for members like me cause we get to try the different variety of work that you awesome guys do for us and that way the users are spoiled for choice and that only not enhances the reputation of the developers but you guys make the phones for us even better
[About XDA developers] mwr666:
i don't really understand what choice you r talking about? u mean the choice of name? cause changed name is only cosmetics and not really a choice... it's like honda in Europe and acura in US....

I have respect to the dev that is sharing with all... and have respect to dev that is sharing with users only... cause they all share at some point... users always have what they want

i've read all posts from this thread and got an conclusion:

sharing with devs is the devs choice... and if we take that we will have nothing... some of the devs want to share and they do... some dont want... but if they were forced to share they would prefer not releasing any of their work.

If you understand what i'm saying u can see my point. The system isn't perfect but it works
[About XDA developers] RayHeath:
I am really disappointed. I´ve been with XDA for quite awhile. These accusations from Jan, in my opinion, are unfounded.

XDA has always stood, for me, as a community to share and learn. Through the contribution from all the DEVs, we have an improved HD2, Sensation, OneX, and of course all the other manufacturors out there. For me, there is no such thing as "kanging", stealing on XDA, at least with Android. Of course the credit should be given to where it´s due, but because of good ideas from one, it´s made even better by another. As said earlier, who wants to take the credit for the creation of the circular battery? Come on guys, this is XDA! If you don´t want your work shared, then you should use another community in my humble opinion.

Thanks Russ! I think you hit the nail right on the head... Great post!

I have known Sergio for a very long time, I have also been on his team for quite a while. Here has never stolen anything from anyone! I remember when some were trying to use his icons without asking him... He didn´t ask them to be banned, he just wanted them to ask. Sergio has been contributing for XDA for more years, than most here. He has never asked for a penny. I know of other DEVs that use his ideas in there own ROMS. He doesn´t mind, they always get his permission and of course he´s always willing to extend a helping hand to anyone that asks. I can´t believe that the MODs would even consider closing a thread or taking a title without first talking to both parties involved.

This is one sad day for Android development, one sad day for XDA! :eek: :mad: :confused:

@Sergio, keep your head up bro! We have your back! :)
[About XDA developers] roofrider:
The solution is simple "Original Android Development" i hope the mods put the pedal to the metal and implement it everywhere. That will let the kangers/themers know where they stand.

In all honesty i feel it's just the age factor and ego coming in the way of sharing. I know a guy who does the most awesome stuff and also writes in-depth excellent guides explaining how he did it. I'm not talking about easy theming..i'm talking about deep down kernel level and possible bricking. Respect.
[About XDA developers] Goku80:
it is already in place in the S2 forums:)

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=15816423&postcount=18 that is what you are kinda talking about to happen then

or even better watch this thread and this is what maybe will happen to our section of the One X

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1219612
[About XDA developers] roofrider:
Yea i know, S2 and Optimus One.. i did ask a couple of mods not so long ago and they said it was a mixed bag.

I see no problem with it.

Edit: Hahaha...As long as Hacre doesn't gets himself a One X u'll be safe :D
[About XDA developers] :
.......abcde
[About XDA developers] Tigermoto:
I am sorry in advance to all. I am not a developer, i am not a themer, i am not a modder, i am a user, with a brain, and a love of technology and a mad reading and learning hobby.

1st of all, the reason i selected this section to quote is because hell yes you do see that.

You are from Germany it seems so we will start there.

VW Golf = Audi A3 = Skoda Octavia (Engines and Platform)

VW Passat = Audi A4 = Skoda Superb (Engines and Platform)

Seat Exeo = 2005 Audi A4 (Almost exactly)

Toyota Aygo = Citroen C1 = Peugeot 107 (Entire Car [Project P-Zero])

So don't say it doesn't happen:

However, so you wanted to keep the full tweaks to yourself and not allow anyone to use/improve it, so be it.

Personally if i had put such effort into something i would want a beta version of the ROM with the tweaks in, see what they have improved on mine, flash it, see how i could assimilate something back.

For Example; as you can see from my signature i am part of the CoreDroid team, as such i know that Sergio spent well over a week just writing his script for Aroma, which lets you modify the ROM you already have installed, remove apps you thought you wanted and didn't etc. This i think is pretty much the ONLY ROM that does this, great idea.

Would it not have been handy for you, where you can remove friendstream and then break facebook and have to reinstall the ROM (Yes, i have used PkMn ROM on my sensation, and read every single post.)

This is the lost spirit of XDA: give and take, credit given and recovered.

Laurentius26's old signature said it best: You learn from me, I learn from you: Together is power

Oh, one last thing, we all flash our phones. Don't recall many threads saying:

Thanks for ClockWorkMod/4EXT recovery making all this possible. (Here's a donation button)

Thanks for Aroma making my ROM easier to flash (Here's a donation button)

So......what more is there? Those three above Revolutionised ROMs, even made them possible, and have they called kanging rights?

Perhaps we may have to realise how big the things that REALLY matter are.

Thanks to all that matter for reading this...
[About XDA developers] MadCobbler:
So we're talking about people using your non trademarked work without permission..... just had a little thought.... have you got permission off Nintendo to use their trademarked characters to advertise your rom?
[About XDA developers] RayHeath:
I don´t think that it´s going off topic, but no one should be flaming anyone... Please try to keep this discussion clean, and don´t personally attack anyone.

BTW, Jan didn´t mean anything personal. :)
[About XDA developers] DutchDanny:
Thank you Ray,

I started this to get opinions, and did not want to get this personal.

I did post this concerning the things that did happen, and just wanted opinions without pointing fingers.

So please stay on topic

Send via my BinDroid XTC One X
[About XDA developers] Tigermoto:
My apologies if i appeared to directly attack people, it was unintentional.

I was just saying what the threads are full of, users saying that developers should make a huge team, share their work, and make the real ultimate ROM.

Show our device manufacturers what real teamwork and real development can acheive.

A lot of people mention XDA, a lot of people forget "-developers"
[About XDA developers] Goku80:
but is it not that xda developers is a place foremost for developers to showcase there skills? to show what they can produce and share it with members like myself?
[About XDA developers] DutchDanny:
This was not directed just to you.

But as more people are gettin involved in this discussion, we seen to lose the point, and just discus what happend, and not a clear opinion.

But your opinion is appreciated ;)

Send via my BinDroid XTC One X
[About XDA developers] af974:
Ahhh...the good old XDA competition, still love that :D

So, wtf i dev refuse to share his tweaks you just give up? :confused:

We have tools here and also we have brain so if someone won't to share something that me or my user do like, i still have two options:

1st. Ok he won't to share and i'm not able to do anything, i will just sit in a corner to cry.

2nd. smali/backsmali, learning Java, searching XDA, ask around and maybe you will end in doing something much more better to the devs that didn't share with you and because you made that "work" by your-self, well, it will make proud of you...................

..............and maybe the first dev will come to beg you to share your new work :D

That's how development will continue to grown...............