yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] Roy_W:
This is precisely why Samsung will not do very much. The majority of Samsung Note users will never come across the bug. Normal users do not do Full Wipes they probably don't even know that it exists, these are the people that represent 98% of all users and the return from these devices must be next to nothing. It makes no business sense for Samsung to do anything other than quickly replace the motherboards, it keeps the majority of people happy.

XDA Users on the other hand are power users , they are continually pushing the limits, doing trial and error tests, overclocking etc. Obviously the XDA community will suffer greatly compared to normal users. The problems with XDA users should never be extrapolated to include the general public, its Chalk and Cheese.

Samsung and the other operators do not want to handle the expense of taking care of unnecassary after sales service, hence they do not officialy condone Rooting or ROM changing, it makes perfect sense.

Samsung have now given XDA a small opportunity to gain a priveleged access to the engineers, everything should now be done to retain this privelege. XDA users would be the first to suffer if we were to lose it.

I believe that we have more advantages by collaborating with Samsung than we do by fighting them..

[ These are my personal opinions and represent only my own thoughts -YMMV]
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] nCoder:
Thanks Entropy (& Samsung)

+1

The communication problems in big companies like Samsung is quite the standard :)

But more important, is that Samsung is proactively willing to work with the XDA development community - implicitly acknowledging Cooked ROM developers, instead of antagonizing them like other manufacturers.
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] musashiro:
thanks for all your work Entropy... I'm sure that the whole community appreciates your efforts... so we are just waiting for the source and probably new firmwares with safe kernels??

so far GB is a lot better than ICS (according to most users who reverted to GB after trying ICS)

but if you will ask me, an expensive device deserves the newest firmware.. until August 14 (if the note 2 comes on the 15th :D), our device is still considered the second best phone from samsung..

on the other hand, IF samsung provides an official JB for our note, lets hope it's emmc bug-free... LOL
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] msedek:
This its not an excuse.. Note it's a risk for anyone and should not be..

I own a gnexus a gtab 10.1 and lg o2x and I have done to those 3 devices anything you can imagine... The worst thing I can get on any of those its boot loops if I have cwm just boot cwm full wipe re flash and that's it.. If not odin/restock in gtab.. Nvflash in o2x and fastboot/adb commands in gnex.. Those devices are non brickable from software(even switching kernels otg and whipping every time you change os gb/hc/ics/jb) they will brick if you put them into the microwave or something like that.. Not even dropping in water (if you remove battery quickly) will damage this devices and that's the way the note should be.

Enviado desde mi GT-N7000 usando Tapatalk 2
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] ckmemphis:
+100
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] xdapao3:
So flashing a stock ICS ROM (for example LRG) AND flashing the corresponding CF-Root 5.6 one is (reasonably) safe and can even do full wipes and nandroid restores, correct?

I am on the latest GB "open" Germany ROM and the corresponding CF-Root 5.3 and I have been holding up updating to ICS waiting for a safe software workaround and reading to get a better understanding of the problem (and can't thank you enough for the valuable informations you provided in this thread).
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] rraaka:
i just cannot believe that sammy would make a fatal mistake like a factory reset from within the stock booted firmware to cause a brick......

youngsters do factory reset QUITE often, any software gets messed up even after legitimate use for some amount of time and factory reset is very common. youngsters who dont visit xda, there are many in that category
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] xdapao3:
As far as I understand it, totally stock ROMs DO NOT brick the phone.

There are very few claims from people who say it has happened to them but NO ONE has been verified.
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] Randomwalker:
If I understood correctly that is actually the point of contention. Samsung says it's safe, Entropy said it's just safer.
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] ckmemphis:
From what I remember, those that have pricked on stock Rom has either messed up the flashing process, or done something weird, causing emmc damage, getting a bootloop and the resetting the device.... So in turn, they cause their own brick. Many folk here that are on stock Rom, uprooted and completely standard and that have used stock resetting from within the software seems to be getting along without issue.... So, based on that, it would seem that the software is safe if not fiddled with, but once you start rooting, loading custom roms and using custom recoveries like cwm, that's when the issues start coming up....

Just my personal take on it... I might be getting the wrong side of the coin though.....
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] msedek:
Still why don't you go flash a pure stock ics and being that fresh go try several factory resets? xD

Then If you brick you can always send your device to samsung for studies...

They won't accept they sold a bad hardware because if they do so they gotta replace every single device in streets... How much does it cost?

Just hope they fixed this crap in gnote 2.. I won't jump over when they release it.. I'll wait some time and see if the note 2 does the same **** or not

Enviado desde mi GT-N7000 usando Tapatalk 2
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] xdapao3:
I wouldn't word it that way. Samsung says they are absolutely sure it's safe, Entropy says there is no definite proof either way but it's in any case WAY safer.

At just a very few and unverified cases I would take my chances..

There is nothing better that we can do about it anyway: having read this thread AFAIU waiting for a "safe" Samsung ROM just equals flashing a "safe" kernel like CF-Root 5.6.
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] jgaviota:
That's the thing, Entropy says it's safer (not completely safe) because some people said that they bricked from complete stock LPY.

Samsung says that is Not the Case, according to them you cannot brick from stock.

We know several things:

1) The emmc firmware bug is real, you have 10%-20% chance of bricking if you issue a secure MMC_ERASE command. This happens if you wipe in ICS from an unsecure recovery (even if you start the wipe from inside Android), or if you format a partition from an unsecure update binary. Anything that issues a secure MMC_ERASE command is dangerous.

2) Samsung's recovery issues a non-secure MMC_ERASE, this was found out by Entropy using a specially modified kernel. Samsung says that this kind of erase does not cause a brick.

3) There were reports of people bricking from stock LPY, but none of the reports could be verified. All attempts to brick from completely stock ICS firmware have failed. If someone could somehow find a true superbrick from stock unmodified firmware, PLEASE speak with Entropy to have the device sent to Samsung, this cannot be stressed enough.

4) If rom and kernel builders from the affected devices took the time to package safe recoveries, safe update binaries and safe kernels, then the community would Not suffer the superbrick. There's really no good reason now that more bricks would ensue. All devices with problematic firmwares could be made safe by following good practices.

5) People confuse /system corruption with the superbrick, they have similar symptoms, but /system corruption can be easily repaired, Entropy posted a guide somewhere. The problem with this is that if Samsung made a public repair option available and people that do not have the superbrick applied it then they would kill their emmc unnecessarily.

So, is stock ICS safe? 99.9% probably safe and if you are the unlucky .1% please talk to Entropy and send your device to Samsung.

Anyway, I won't wipe from stock ICS, and you shouldn't if you cannot speak with Entropy and send your device to Samsung.

Are custom roms et all safe? There was a time that they were not. This is how the bug came to light. But unless someone does something stupid that should NOT be the case now.

Just make sure that:

a) You use a safe kernel that has MMC_CAN_ERASE blocked

b) You don't use an install script that formats partitions

c) Use a safe update binary that doesn't send secure Erase commands

d) Use a safe recovery that doesn't send secure Erase commands

e) Because all of the above, avoid flashing old custom roms or flashing from old custom roms (Even old custom GB roms could have an unsafe update binary that borks your emmc if you format)

If in spite of all this you superbrick your device from a non-stock rom, take your device to a Samsung repair center. If you have your binary counter at 0 and don't have the yellow triangle then you shouldn't pay for the motherboard replacement.
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] xdapao3:
If I understood everything Entropy wrote correctly: wouldn't this be enough and take care by itself alone of all the rest?
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] jgaviota:
Yes, the other options are there for thoroughness. For example if you have CF-Root kernel then you have to use the other options to be safe.
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] xdapao3:
:( uh? why? isn't CF-Root 5.6 one of the "safe" kernels??

BTW, that was, essentially, my original question to Entropy.
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] jgaviota:
CF-Root 5.6 has a safe RECOVERY, it doesn't block secure Erase because it is only a repackaged version of stock rom (BTW I'm using CF-Root myself)

It is safe for wiping, and for nandroid.

You could brick with it if you installed a Rom from CWM that used an unsafe update binary and made a format with the install script.
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] xdapao3:
Thanks a bunch, that's what I wanted to know.

I don't mess around with my daily driver so just to err on the safe side I will wait for the next Samsung update (assuming they have finally got with the program and they release a "safe" kernel...).
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] Entropy512:
If you run a custom kernel with MMC_CAP_ERASE disabled - you will be safe.

If you run CF-Root 5.6 (with erase disabled in recovery) - You will be safe to wipe and factory reset, but you are NOT guaranteed safety when flashing other firmwares - they can use a dangerous update-binary.

At this point I'm 95% certain that CM9's update-binaries since early June have been safe, however I haven't had time to confirm this completely. Once I do, I'll be altering the CM9 flashing instructions.

Correct. The kernel does not block secure erase - however the recovery included in CF-Root 5.6 is safe and will not issue erase commands. However, when flashing zips there is a chance the update-binary may issue an erase.

When flashing a ZIP, unless you know for certain that its update-binary was built from safe source (such as CM9 once I check that our fixes are indeed working), I strongly recommend flashing FROM a kernel with MMC_CAP_ERASE removed. If a kernel has MMC_CAP_ERASE removed, you are completely guaranteed safety.

My current post-meeting actions are:

1) Provide a recommendation for how Samsung can make their proposed kernel protection fix "verifiable" - Planned for tonight or tomorrow

2) Continue to remind my contacts that I want to get the real story on what happened with I9100 XWLPM and XXLQ5 - half of the people asked swear up and down that there is no difference and every shipped binary had MMC_CAP_ERASE enabled. We know this isn't the case - I'm guessing right now they saw it in sdhci.c and didn't realize mshci.c is what matters

3) Find out why TRIM was removed from SHW-M250S Update5 source code. Probably a doofus kernel developer flailing around randomly, but I want to see the commit message.
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] musashiro:
does deleting big files while the phone is booted up trigger the problem? I havent seen reports regarding this scenario. I even tried deleting 1gb when i was on LPY. is it proven to be just a hoax/myth?

Samsung should just disable mmc-cap-erase on ics firmwares and get over it...

Thanks entropy, still waiting for more juicy news..
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] msedek:
+1

Enviado desde mi GT-N7000 usando Tapatalk 2
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] crazy_4_and1:
I have a SGS2 with a known risky 0x19 chip ... i changed at least 10 stock ICS ROM-s (all of them 4.0.3 - pre June builds ) and on all of them i performed a full wipe and a factory reset at least twice . Brick was not triggered . It does not mean that I will not make a mistake and do a wipe on a unsafe kernel , but if you are careful enough you won't brick your device - read Entropy512s post on the required conditions for a brick .
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] crazy_4_and1:
Read the post above - it's not just wiping that can trigger the brick , but also flashing custom ROMs from CWM
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] musashiro:
yeah, that's kinda obvious now and it doesn't answer my question... I'm asking if it's true that deleting "big files" trigger the problem...
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] monomer888:
Entropy512 may have further to add to what he previously said, but until then, this is what he previously said:

Source: http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=27488336&postcount=224
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] Entropy512:
As to safety of the discard flag if it were to ever appear (I suspect that it will now that Samsung has figured out they made a mistake and it's not present) - that's heavily linked to the safety of nonsecure erase. However based on details I've received (but unfortunately cannot share), the nature of how the discard option makes erase get used means it is likely the safest scenario other than completely and totally removing erase, unless nonsecure erase is triggering a defect in the chip that is NOT currently known about.
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] will5:
I know it will be a little offtopic, but, so much info, Im completely lost.

I guess too much people, like me, are con 4.0.3 with cwm and a CF kernel. There is a way to update to a clean 4.0.4 without going back to a gb rom?
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] :
No... (gb kernel)
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] smartvinu:
Can't we remove the MMC_CAP_ERASE bug from the current kernel code and build a new one.

and all roms use this kernel ( custom roms ) ..

wont be that possible .. ??
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] musashiro:
there were a few custom kernels in the dev section with mmc_cap_erase disabled..^__^

but i still prefer the stock kernelv + root combination..
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] rraaka:
the recent spurt of VERY POLISHED 4.0.4 releases are giving problems with basic rooting, abyss flashing and triangle away too.... correct me if im wrong,

am i seeing more than what meets the eye

u still think they will fix the brick bug officially ? maybe.....

its our mess and we have to learn to clean it up ourselves...me thinks

and we are...a step at a time :good:
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] PoisonWolf:
Someone just reportedly bricked on stock configuration....

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1800775
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] Spiralzz:
Entropy, you're in luck! ;)
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] seth87:
will the patches or new ROM could safe the brick device?
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] friedje:
here is a friendly hint : READING IS FREE

to answer your question : NO
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] crazy_4_and1:
You understood the question ? :silly:
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] friedje:
Yes I did, not you ?
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] altae:
Use goku, speedmod or notecore, they are all safe. At the moment goku is almost stock, it doesn't even have logging disabled. And it's way faster and more battery friendly than the stock or cf-root kernel. By the way, cf-root is also safe as long as you perform the wipe in cwm respectively cwm recovery.

Sent from my Galaxy Note running ICS
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] altae:
Oh one more thing: Pereonally I don't think Samsung will fix the bug with an ics release. If they fix it at all it will be with the jelly bean update (if it really comes for the note). I hope I will be proven wrong but I highly doubt it.

Sent from my Galaxy Note running ICS
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] MohElShafei:
I lost hope that a fix will be released for already bricked/damaged devices. I'm now searching how I will change my Motherboard. The problem is that I can't find a store or place that I can replace my motherboard from. Hope I can send it to India for fix.
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] musashiro:
still waiting for more news on entropy's side
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] dr.ketan:
@entropy

case of - bricked device by using stock recovery for nadnroid restore

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=29572157#post29572157
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] _Kshitij:
True mate.. Samsung is more interested in launching new crap..many issues with Note.. Damn..never going for a Samsung again..
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] jgaviota:
dr.ketan, stock recovery doesn't have the option to do nandroid backups or restores.
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] Entropy512:
Yup. Fundamentally not possible to brick with a nandroid restore on stock recovery. Stock recovery only can wipe and flash ZIPs signed by Samsung.

Right now I'm trading emails with Samsung regarding a kernel patch proposed last weekend that will replace secure erase with nonsecure erase.

Once that is deployed, if anyone bricks with such a kernel, that will resolve once and for all the "is nonsecure erase dangerous?" question.

I'm working with Samsung on trying to make this fix verifiable - I made it clear that the presence of such a fix HAD to be verifiable in a running kernel somehow.
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] dr.ketan:
@jgoviota

Read full thread he has never flashed any custom rom or kernel, so only.option he restored nandroid backup is cwm.zip(touch recovery).

He already stated that nandroid restore started, but dont know whether is finished or not.

Cwm.zip using stock kernel isn't?
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] jgaviota:
I did, and as Entropy also said stock recovery cannot do nandroids.

cwm.zip does not come from Samsung, so it is not stock. It uses the kernel's routines for wiping, and thus it is vulnerable if the kernel is vulnerable. We know that all stock ICS kernels up to this point are vulnerable, but the stock recoveries are safe according to Samsung. Entropy believes that there is a very small chance that stock recoveries are vulnerable, but even to this day there has not been one verified report that doesn't include vulnerable cwm.zip or update-binary.

So the cwm.zip that this user flashed is vulnerable but it CAN be made safe. Users should not be using any cwm.zip to either root or wipe unless one is found that has been made safe. If there is source somewhere for the cwm.zip that is currently being used for rooting ICS, Entropy or any kernel developer could compile a safe version. (Entropy made CM9's recovery safe)

Currently the safest approach to a rooted 4.0.4 is

Odin -> GB

wipe

root with zergrush

Mobile Odin Pro with Everroot -> Stock ICS

If you need to wipe in ICS or have CWM recovery to install any custom zip then

Mobile Odin -> Speed Mod v3-11 (or GL_Notecore)

wipe

Why not CF-Root? Because a user can still brick if he uses a badly formed update script with a vulnerable update-binary. (This is not an issue with SpeedMod)
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] dr.ketan:
yes U R Right, I know exact it, but i was refering that brick with stock kernel.
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] nfribeiro:
If someone using kow GB with CF-Root, wipe and flash Stock ICS with Mobile Odin Pro + Everroot and after Speed Mod v3-11 (just in case) with Mobile Odin, will be also safe?
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] Entropy512:
There is "sharing information" and there is "cluttering the forum with useless posts that do not transmit information".

Do some reading on information theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantities_of_information is a good place to start), specifically:

"Information is transferred from a source to a recipient only if the recipient of the information did not already have the information to begin with."

By this definition, your post transmitted no information. It merely served to waste channel bandwidth.
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] Entropy512:
Your own personal experience with this device did not transmit ANY new information regarding this issue.

If every user related their own "personal experience with a device" that was a repeat of information already known, this thread would be 4000 pages long and it would be impossible to find relevant information.
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] Entropy512:
No, it still isn't proven that it is impeccably safe.

Far safer, yes. But until nonsecure erase is deployed on a massive scale (e.g. to as many users as CWM), it isn't proven that it's entirely safe.

Unfortunately, that's an experiment that is too dangerous.

The only thing that is proven to be "impeccably safe" is not erasing at all.

On a side note:

Going waaay back to one of Ken Sumrall's old posts on the repair process: He did mention that it was highly dangerous. We all assumed that it was due to the fact that it would leave the chip a blank slate (which is hardbricked but JTAGable) - but I think we all misinterpreted him there. I think he meant what we eventually learned two weekends ago - It leaves the chip 100% toasty on a fairly frequent basis.

Even secure erase is not 100% guaranteed to cause damage. It turns out it will only cause damage when the eMMC is in a certain specific state. (I unfortunately can't elaborate on the specifics as that is proprietary information) - However it explains why some people manage to wipe even in CWM without damage. This leads to it being frustrating as hell to reproduce the problem when you want to.

Right now, until Samsung implements their proposed patch and it's deployed widely, I'm not personally trusting nonsecure erase. Either way, distributing kernels that would permit dangerous commands to touch the eMMC chip was a huge mistake.
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] Tungstwenty:
Hi folks,

I have recently coded a script to automatically detect the code patterns for MMC_CAP_ENABLED present vs. absent, at least on GT-I9100 kernels. It's in this thread.

I got fed up with answering the same questions every time, and even more when people don't understand there's a risk (albeit small) that even stock recovery can trigger the damage.

(and I see the same discussion is going on even here, despite the spot-on technical explanations :rolleyes:)

Could anyone have a look at the script I posted and see if it also correctly analyzes the N7000's situation?

As for patching a stock kernel to disable the nasty bit, the offset printed out can be used with e.g. this repacker to get a new zImage which IMO should be safe.
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] reinbeau:
Thread cleaned yet again

Unless you have concrete, pertinent information, don't post here. It will be deleted.
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] reinbeau:
I have made it quite clear that this is a serious information thread, it is NOT a place for discussion or chit-chat. We don't need you to set the tone, it's been set. Now the thread is closed until there is more information to share.

Edit - reopened as I have heard from someone who wants to share some information. It isn't open for discussion, chit-chat or idle speculation. Keep it pertinent. And yes, I will decide if it's pertinent or not.
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] nfribeiro:
Is there any development about this that someone can share?
[Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General] itsmix:
Q:

Related I think, I am searching for a solution to a recovery issue I have and came across this app?/ script : Darkside Super Wipe in this thread

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1532011

Is this safe to use even with cm9 & other proven safe scripts?