yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
>Will Win 8 support blue stacks running Android?

No, but apparently Asus AIO will.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/04/asus-enlists-bluestacks-to-run-android-apps-on-windows-pcs/

>Windows8 is basically windows7 with a tablet interface on top.

That's a good thing; Windows functionality is an asset.

>for windows 2gb is just the bare minimum.

Most netbooks have 1GB and can run Win7 fine. Win8 should be further stripped down from Win7.

For mobile devices, low power is emphasized over high perf. Medfield/Clover Trail are Atom-class SoCs. Ivy Bridge ULV will sit in high-end toys, but I think for initial launch, vendors will lead with lower-cost tabs. The 800-lb gorilla in the room is still iPad at $500, and with the best display hands down. Let's all thank Apple for pressing hard on price.

>And i'd say forget about playing x86 games desigend for PC.

The netbook is a good yardstick, and netbooks can play many games. You just need to dial down the gfx. An Atom won't rival an i7, but games should do fine as long as they're targeted for the platorm.

>Then there are alot of unknown factors.

Yes, there are. Wait for launch and find out.

Aside from questions regarding Win8 itself, there are many questions on how tablet will fit in as a new computing platform. What are the use cases, aside from content-consumption (as shown by iPad/Android)? How to use tablet for productivity apps? Is hybrid aka docked mode the answer? I suspect it'll take a couple years before the dust settles.

TheVerge has a piece that sums up the confusion, in particular to Asus' profusion of Win8 models.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/4/30...windows-8-acer-asus-tablet-laptop-convertible
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
Hmm, and with that... it makes you think W700 is going for All-in-One type of device but in tablet form. Also explains the ugly dock with those ports..

But that price is a big hinder & I don't know about 11.6 in All-in-One type of device.. even if it is to appeal in "tablet" form ......

Glad W510 is clover trail SoC. I'm def. looking into purchasing one of the clover trail tablet.... (granted, I'm waiting on what Samsung and Sony will have to offer in that segment).
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
ASUS introduced so many things today, I'm confused as to what everyone's talking about. The Transformer Book, covered here by The Verge, seems to be the best choice (if battery life and performance can be at all optimized):

So, essentially a "real" Ivy Bridge processor with a decent amount of RAM (4GB), and full HD display. That would be a killer, if likely expensive. Also, I think I remember reading that this will have a Wacom or n-Trig active digitizer and pen. I don't think this one has a model number yet (it's definitely NOT the 600 or 810).

At this point, it looks a little like ASUS is throwing a bunch of stuff at the wall to see what sticks...

---------- Post added at 05:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:26 PM ----------

I think a Transformer-like tablet that runs X86 apps (like the Ivy Bridge-based Transformer Book) could easily pull in a higher price than the iPad. I know I'd pay a pretty penny for it, to have access to my real, actual productivity apps (of which, of course, the full Office is the clincher). Many, many business people would likely agree--such a tablet could go a long way to head the iPad off at the IT path.

It's going to be an interesting 6 months...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
>Glad W510 is clover trail SoC

Edit 3: OK I took yet another look at W510, and it looks fine. But the W700 is still a lump.

>Also explains the ugly dock with those ports..

After watching some more vids on W700, now I understand for the weird-shaped dock: It's designed as a stand for either portrait or landscape use. Still is fugly. And for that price, they could've thrown in a keyboard.

Re: TF Book - They are all 11.6" and up, w/ 1080p, i3/5/7, USB 3.0, etc. These are touch-hybrid version of the Zenbook. Their large size means they're intended for mainly docked use, with occasional tablet use. They aren't full-time tabs.

The 600 and 800 are Asus' value play, intended to compete w/ iPad. The problem I see is that the 600 has few apps, and the 800 is too big to be a full-time tab. For all of its myriad models, Asus doesn't look to have an actual Win8 10.1" x86 tablet. This gaping hole is where the Acer W510 fits.

Is Gary Key still around, or has he given up the ghost? If the former, some insight to Asus' launch would be appreciated. This is the perfect moment for a tech marketing mgr to show his prowess.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/04/samsung-series-5-hybrid-PC-windows-8/

Now this one is really interesting. Although not much is actually known...

quote:

The Hybrid is rated for 10 hours of battery life and has a pair of 2- and 8-megapixel cameras. It also supports pen input, and will come bundled with the same S-Pen and S-Memo software used on the Galaxy Note 10.1 (but modified for Windows, of course). This might be a good time to clarify that unlike the 10.1 (or any other Galaxy Tab, for that matter), this is not an ARM-based slate, but rather, an X86 PC. This means, of course, that it runs full Windows 8, and not just the RT version. As it happens, Engadget had the chance to check out a prototype in advance of the launch, and it was running a two-watt Intel Clover Trail CPU. At the time, a Samsung rep told us the company was considering an ultra low voltage notebook-grade processor. Other possible specs: a 1080p display option, with some lower, unspecified resolution offered as well. Lastly, the early model we saw had a USIM slot, a microSD reader and a Superspeed USB port. Keep in mind, though, that all these details are subject to change.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tf201:
I am sick of how much Google tracks and hope win8 won't be like that. I think you will get android emulators. I think I will get that book thing 1k-2k for an i7 loaded touchscreen tablet hybrid seems awesome.

I think android tablets have a place but its not really direct competition to such a product.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] morphiend:
i think i'm sold on the asus book as a desktop replacement. any chance the nvidia 680m will be an option when it comes out?

my computer now is a quad core 6600 @ 2.4ghz with an ati 4850 and so far it's been able to play the games i'm into fairly well ie. fallout 3, dragon age 1,2, witcher 2, portal 2, diablo 3.

the transformer book with an i7 and nvidia 680m gpu will be lightyears ahead of the system i have now right? any chance it would cost less than 1500 or is that wishful thinking??
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jetbruceli:
There is no way Windows 8 Arm version will be android.

Android has already surpassed ios in the market share and win 7 phone has lost so much ground.

I love my windows based pc but as an arm device, it wont give u anything more than tiles.

Arm version will not have desktop we see on the release preview
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] SpinnZ:
Yeah i cant see any port to our tf201 without any licencing issues

Would be amazing to have win8 on this
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] foxmeister:
Errhhh, apparently it will have a regular desktop mode, mostly in order to run the full versions of Office that come with Windows RT.

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/02/windows-8-on-arm-the-desktop-is-there-sos-office-but-not-much-more/

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/02/09/building-windows-for-the-arm-processor-architecture.aspx

From the last link, the important quote is here:

Regards,

Dave
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
I doubt we'll see Win8 ARM tablets this year.

It's not coming together. On x86, there've been three public betas; none for ARM. Office 15 is supposed to be bundled with WinRT; haven't seen hide nor hair of it. At Computex, Asus 600 was the only retail ARM tablet shown, and it's only running a test version of WinRT w/o Office. Every other tab was x86 (Qualcomm showed its ref tab, but that isn't a retail product.)

Drop-dead for RTM is probably late Aug, for Win8 to make launch in Oct/Nov. Vendors will need time to test and ramp production. For a product with no public visibility to go RTM two months would be a miracle, and MS doesn't do miracles.

Even if Win8 ARM tabs showed their faces, I can't imagine there'll be too many takers. No software. There may be a limited launch, so devs can get a unit to get a headstart on their work.

It's not a shocker. Porting to a new architecture while changing to a new UI paradigm at the same time is a double-heavy lift. The good news is that Clover Trail is competitive, both in performance and battery life. Acer W510 claims 9-hr battery sans dock. Of course, Acer is always a tad optimistic with its numbers, so probably 6'ish. Still decent.

The bad news is x86 tabs will likely run north of $500, since a keyboard dock is required for "productivity." Even if we ignore the market-leading iPad at $500, there's the fact that ultrabooks have had a tough time selling at $800-1000, even for all their shininess and high-end hardware. To ask $600+ for what is essentially a netbook with detachable touch-screen isn't a realistic option.

But I think that's what will happen, because it's launch, and things always get a bit crazy at launch. Early adopters aren't price-sensitive. And marketers always tend toward the optimistic side with pricing, as it's easier to mark down than mark up after the fact.

I think in a vacuum, ie no iPad or Android, MS could probably get away with the higher prices. But tablets already have their reference prices--$500 for a high-end 10" tab, and $200-ish for a 7" one. That's the public expectation. My guess is that street prices will drop to $500 some time after launch, probably too late to make Xmas shopping, but definitely by spring.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
>Errhhh, apparently it will have a regular desktop mode, mostly in order to run the full versions of Office that come with Windows RT.

That's only for MS. Normal apps can only use Metro in WinRT.

I think that's fine, as people want "desktop" mode for multitasking, ie multiple overlapping windows. For tablets--what most ARM devices will be on to start out--the small screen obviates the need for "heavy" multitasking, simply because there isn't the real estate. For "light" multitask, the 80/20 dual-window scheme in Metro suffices. The fast app-switching via left-edge swipes also mitigates the need.

This will need to change as ARM moves into other form factors with larger displays. For this first iteration, it's probably good enough. Both Metro and desktop mode will need major improvements anyhow. People don't normally consider retail products as beta, but this initial Win8 is, in my eyes, v0.8 rather than v8.0.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] UndisputedGuy:
With all this talk about different Asus windows products, i need some clarification.

Asus tablet 600: Windows 8 tablet running ARM windows and can't play full PC games like battlefield. Tegra 3 powered.

Asus tablet 800: Running full windows 8. Not sure about Tegra 3 or if it can play full PC games

Asus Ultrabook: cross between tablet and laptop running full windows 8, likely to be very expensive. Anyone have a rough idea/guess how much?

Is this correct?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] UndisputedGuy:
Is it a better product though? Would browsing be smoother and faster?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
Asus tablet 600: Windows 8 tablet running ARM windows and can't play full PC games like battlefield. Tegra 3 powered. Can't play any PC games or run any x86/x64 legacy software.

Asus tablet 800: Running full windows 8. Not sure about Tegra 3 or if it can play full PC games You can install PC games but you have to question how well it will actually run the game. Games such as Skyrim will need to be run at lowest setting & even in that scenario... will have issue with FPS.

Asus Ultrabook: cross between tablet and laptop running full windows 8, likely to be very expensive. Which version? There's Asus Zenbook that simply comes with touch, or Asus Book/Asus Taichi which is hybrid of tablet/ultrabook. And yes, they will all be very expensive.

For example, Asus Eee Slate tablet PC with Windows 7 that is currently out in stores is $1.2k+ ..... The ultrabook hybrid/tablets will most likely come in this price and higher.

We won't know until we actually see a released product with Windows RT on ARMS.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] UndisputedGuy:
It's quite intriguing. Thanks for your response. I think the price needs to be right. About £400 would be a nice price for the 600 with dock. If thats tge case, i wont really know what to do.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
Computex keynote from the always-entertaining Jonney Shih of Asus. Is it me, or has his English diction improved from his last foray? (Edit: It's my imagination.) The guy is funny! At the 15:00 mark where he's pitching the new AIO, he didn't get his applause line in time, so he kept prompting with "thank-you's" before the audience wised up and gave him a clap.

As you may or may not know, Asus killed its EEE moniker. A good thing, as it was only second to Wii in cheese flavor. Unfortunately, its replacement SO-LO-MO (social-location-mobile) is worse. I can see the puns coming, "Lookit it's Asus tab in Slo-Mo!" Don't these guy have any English marketers at all?

HEY GARY KEY ARE YOU RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS? Just thought I'd check.

Yep, it's another "We've got cloud computing!" proclamation. Yawn. My advice to any company wanting to make this a reality: Get together with carriers and give me 50GB for $50 a month. Nothing happens on a lousy 5GB. You sneeze and there goes a GB. Maybe Asian countries got really cheap rates.

Tablets (600 and 810) came up at the 18:15 mark. Another yawner. You know it's a doormat when the pitch lines include "8MP camera" and "SonicMaster" audio. The gushy Shih went zombie, reciting the bullet points verbatim. From the pitch alone, you know these ain't Asus' breadwinner.

[YOUTUBE]6lTOkG95ASA[/YOUTUBE]

My impression of the keynote:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] the_game_master:
nikka my work laptop is running Windows 7 at 1200x800 on a 14" inch screen , I'd take that 1366x768 on a 10.1" screen with Win8 any day.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
from that video, i want that worlds lightest and thinnest Intel Ivy bridge i7 notebook/tablet. thats the most powerful tablet mentioned from them and any other manufacturer so far. I bet it would be very expensive. Kinda crazy how all these tablets look the same. hard to tell what is what actually. the other tablets seem cool. but i agree with e.mote, the presentation was kinda dull. it was filled with mostly cloud fluff. They shouldve showed these tablets in action. like the i7 one playing a well known game that requires high performance. Or doing some intense photoshop work or something.

All in all, Asus trying to load the market up with varieties of tablets. Choice is a good thing. It showed on the screen that the tablet could switch seamlessly between windows or android. even better than dual boot. I wish they wouldve showcased that. That wouldve been a hell of alot more interesting as you get the best of both worlds. Windows RT on Arm is the future but will take a while for software to build up for it. I wonder how much xda will fill that void until then. These windows based tablets definitely caught my interest now. I could take it back to where it all started for me here in xda, and thats with windows ;)

I hope that i7 tablet/notebook has some serious advanced cooling methods. i can see some people here now trying to overclock that mofo like crazy.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
>i want that worlds lightest and thinnest Intel Ivy bridge i7 notebook/tablet

That was an easy claim, since there are no i7 tablet/hybrid yet available. But yep first thing I did was to check for weight spec (there were none). BTW, Shinzz, the TFB does have heat vents.

Asus' TF Book (TFB) line is actually pretty exciting, as long as you're looking for performance over mobility in a tablet. The tablet portion would be hot and heavy (in the literal sense), and battery life can't be good (17W TDP), but an i5/7 ULV would wipe the floor with Clover Trail. That said, HD 4000 GPU is still entry-level. It'd do OK on Diablo3, but not Skyrim at full 1080p res.

Anandtech benched the i7-3517U in the Zenbook Prime UX21A (likely same chip for TFB). Skyrim at 1366x768 and medium detail runs at 30fps, the bare minimum. Other games benched (below link) had similar perf. One would expect that at TFB's 1080p res, and presumably lower speed spec than the Zenbook due to heat & battery issues, perf would be substantially worse. Unlike ultrabooks, discrete graphics won't be an option.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5872/intel-dual-core-ivy-bridge-launch-and-ultrabook-review

>I bet it would be very expensive.

I expect TFBs to be priced more than current Zenbooks. One indication is that 1080p is reportedly standard for these, and optional on Zenbook.

>playing a well known game that requires high performance. Or doing some intense photoshop work or something.

Per above, gaming won't be an emphasis. I expect TFB to be positioned for multimedia, which was what Shih demo'ed at the keynote. Compromises made to fit it into tablet form means that it won't be a speed demon, and can't be compared to a regular ultrabook. It should still be the fastest "tabtop," and of course you get the 1080p display, which should be its main selling hook.

>I wonder how much xda will fill that void until then

I wonder if WinRT will get any play here. XDA is really gung-ho on smartphones (particularly HTC and Samsung models), with forums being created before the devices' release. Tablets, not so much.

>i can see some people here now trying to overclock that mofo like crazy.

I don't see it. No more BIOS, and you can't just open the shell as with a PC. It'll be fully locked down, both FW and HW. Would like to see a teardown, though.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
Yea, I found it after checking out more pictures and videos. Honestly, I'm really disappointed by Asus (granted by most win 8 tablets at the show) at Computex. Asus Taichi is the only tablet/hybrid that sort of intrigues me but that's about it. Transformer Book.... in all honesty, should be for niche market as well.... even as "multimedia" device that they will market as. If Eee Pad Slate Tablet PC by Asus, Samsung and etc are anything to go by... (they have similar specs except in 720p resolution)... the battery life is going to be absolutely pathetic to really even be used as "multimedia" device in tablet form. If is performance you are going after, I simply would go after Asus Zenbook with touch display..... should be cheaper & probably better hardware overall. I still think the biggest disappointment is Asus opting to use Medfield in T800......

However, this all doesn't matter as I'm staying away from any Asus device for a while after purchasing TPrime.. uggh. Also, very disappointed by Asus design team.... basically using "zenbook" theme in just about everything....

Btw...during Asus Taichi PT.... seriously.. "ENJOY MODE"??

As for WinRT and ARM in general... I have my doubts. WinRT/ARM.. in my opinion will be scarce in Windows 8 device. Intel's Atom/Cloverfield & AMD's Trinity will most likely lead the low-end..... I really don't see a market for WinRT & ARM... unless those two SoC from Intel/AMD has garbage battery life.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
1. I agree. However, Transformer Prime experience has been so negative for me that I'm simply staying away from all Asus products in general for a bit.

2. Agree in your analysis as well. My only argument, or if I can even call it an argument is..... the growth of Metro apps for MS to penetrate group 1. I simply don't see MS to really target that audience, nor do I see enough growth in Metro apps for WinRT/ARM devices to really take off. I simply see Group 4 as niche market as well.....

My biggest question is how video game companies will handle Metro & Desktop.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
>the growth of Metro apps for MS to penetrate group 1. I simply don't see MS to really target that audience, nor do I see enough growth in Metro apps for WinRT/ARM devices to really take off.

MS has unambiguously stated that Metro is the future of Win, and it's backing that up by bundling its largest cash cow (Office is bigger than Windows in revenue) into WinRT to jump-start it. MS has always had excellent developer relations, and I expect all ISVs to heed its guidance. Prelim feedback on Win8 has all been positive thus far, and by using that to seed Metro apps, WinRT should do well. Just not this year.

Windows will compete in the $300-and-under segment, as that's where ARM will thrive. It won't be this year; maybe in 2013 but certainly by 2014. Intel jumped out of the low-cost netbook segment with its upsell effort for ultrabooks, because it had no competition. Now with ARM as a competitor, Intel will surely jump back in. The Atom and its successors will be the main focus for Intel going forward.

>I simply see Group 4 as niche market as well

It's too early to call. It'll depend on the use-case and app support, which have yet to develop. High-end performance tabtops is analogous to high-end performance laptops, and the latter is a sizeable niche segment.

>My biggest question is how video game companies will handle Metro & Desktop.

Games will be a natural on Metro, since most of them are full-screen to start with. The desktop-vs-Metro argument applies mainly to productivity apps and multitasking.

Gaming will be where ARM can make a move on Intel, given Intel's weak GPU capability. Now that it has successfully answered the "is Atom a good enough CPU for tablet" question, I expect Intel to scramble to shore up the GPU front.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] UndisputedGuy:
Just to mention that it would be useful if someone mentioned the prices in this thread when they're announced.

And perhaps, some reviews
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] foxmeister:
Except Office isn't a Metro app, even on WINRT.

Having played with Metro on Win8, I can see Metro working well for tablets, but never for full blown Windows productivity apps like Office.

Regards,

Dave
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
I like Charbax's vids. He doesn't pussyfoot around with pantsy comments. In below vid for TFB, we find out that the TFB will have discrete graphics and HDD/ODD (probably as options) for the larger sizes. These will reside in the dock. When in tablet mode, storage is limited to SSD and presumably HD4000 GPU. The TFB weighs around 700g (1.54lbs) for tablet, and another 700g for dock, or 3lbs altogether. The tablet isn't available separately.

[YOUTUBE]31Pp8Rf4g9I[/YOUTUBE]

In Charbax's vid for Acer W700, he finagled a poor Asus rep to get the CPU info. Powering the W700 is a i5-3317U Mobile Ivy Bridge ULV (specs here)

[YOUTUBE]g7h2PR-MttQ[/YOUTUBE]
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] TechAnimal:
How does the HD4000 compare to the video processors in the ipad, tfp, etc? I thought it was/is substantially more powerful...