yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HTC Amaze 4G] JonathanBarca10:
Does anybody know what TIs history is for something like this?
[HTC Amaze 4G] EclipzeRemix:
this is what i got back

Dear Xavier Veras,
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
You can call bs on that.

One X source code is released.

Sensation Source code is released. ---> They got ICS 5 days after us

One V source code is released.

Respond back to them and tell them that. They are lying to the customers. How did other devices get it so quick when they say ICS is new?

You have to take the initiative.
[HTC Amaze 4G] EclipzeRemix:
I replied this

That is false, the HTC One X,S, and V all got there kernel source, so did the HTC Sensation with Sense 3.6, and we got our update 5 days apart. Not only that but the Amaze is always let down with everything, we still dont have a WiFi source either. Tell HTC to get their act straight because I'm very likely to but another phone from another company soon. We need this source, I paid 500 dollars for a phone that I don't completely own because of the missing source. Thank you for your time but something has to be done
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
You want to call them out. You have to tell them basically you know your facts and you aren't stupid. Companies think customers are stupid (for the most part, they are right.) But you do have to tell them you know your stuff. I'm still waiting for them to respond to my second response.

EDIT: Apparently I overlooked this and thought it was an automated message.

They said

My response right now was
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
Just read this. Apparently HTC releases source codes between 90 - 120 days

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1682917
[HTC Amaze 4G] andy55:
I got my reply,

Dear Andy,

Thank you for contacting HTC Andy! I apologize that we do not have any information on when/if that driver will be released. The best place to look for updates on that information would be the htcdev.com website or Facebook/Twitter. Thank you for being a loyal HTC customer. We appreciate your commitment. I hope that you have a great day!

So basically I'm emailing my cousin, or uncle, because I would've gotten the same reply from them! What a joke, time to turn it up a notch.

edit: reply

I feel as if my original question was not answered, I'm contacting the company regarding an issue about their product, and felt as though I was getting a reply from a third party or someone unfamiliar with their own products. I'm looking for answers for the Amaze TI WLAN driver, and am requesting the release, or the date of release for that driver. Other phones in your product lineup have had their full source codes released, phones released before and after the Amaze, and in the case of the sensation, mere days after receiving its ICS update. I'm sure there is somebody I could either write or speak with that would be able to answer my question, I, along with many others in the development community feel it would be in HTC's best interests to release the driver. You would be helping those in the development community fully explore their devices, and in turn improve your company image as a top phone manufacturer and developer friendly company.

HTC's reply:

Thank you for getting back in touch with me Andy. I’m sorry that there was some confusion in our last email. As I stated before, we do not have any information on if or when the drivers will be released. Proprietary drivers are created by HTC for use on our phones and we are not by law, required to release the drivers. The open source codes are on the htcdev.com website but any drivers created by HTC, are property of HTC and will be released if we choose. HTC is committed to giving their customers the best experience possible so your concerns and requests have been noted. I apologize that we do not have any further information on if/when the drivers will be released but please check for updates on the htcdev.com website and/or Facebook and/or Twitter. I thank you for being a loyal HTC customer and I hope that you have a great day!

Booooooo
[HTC Amaze 4G] CalicoJeb:
Done - the minute I read your post, Thanks

---------- Post added at 11:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 AM ----------

Maybe they ripped off some other company's/persons source to create the Amaze - so cannot release it :D jk
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
The responded to my message.

My response

Remember folks! TAKE INITIATIVE! CALL THEM OUT! TELL THEM WHAT OTHER COMPANIES ARE DOING! Be a man! lol
[HTC Amaze 4G] andy55:
one more try:

There was no confusion with your first reply, I understand that HTC has no legal mandate to release anything it doesen't need to, so again, no confusion. What I am confused about is the reason the amaze driver has been held back, when other devices have had their full source codes released, and still there was no reason given as to why the WLAN driver can not be released. Other phone compaines out there like samsung seem to co-operate with developers better then HTC does, so its a shame that I can't get an answer for a simple question. And the reason provided, 'because we don't have to' isn't a good one, I'm sure there's a reason why, someone in the company must know something relating to this issue, and those in the development community are left in the dark on the topic. So no, there is no confusion regarding this topic, I fully understand HTC's stance on what is theirs and what is required by law, but considering your desire to be involved with development with HTCDEV.com, what I don't understand is why I can't get an answer that actually answers my question, a question directly relating to development. As you have said in the last reply I recieved, 'your concerns and requests have been noted', this lack of communication and understanding has also been noted by myself, and it will directly influence me on my next phone purchase.
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
Can I say progress?
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
My response

Are you guys taking notes??
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
1. The links are to show the bluetooth are GPL.

2. Yeah, I know. But I was mad so I said it. lol.
[HTC Amaze 4G] Ashcunak:
So in short you are saying we need someone to go through all the threads and create a nice clear summary of everything summarizing up to point X (last posted message) of each thread.

sort of like a wiki maybe summarizing it?

can we use the xda htc amaze wiki page for this? to redirect people to and copy paste it into emails as needed?
[HTC Amaze 4G] brainbone:
A well researched wiki summarizing all the GPL violations of HTC, not just those related to the Amaze, isn't a bad idea at all. Could be a very useful resource when drafting emails to anyone on this subject.
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
Just emailed f*ckTC
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
HTC's response
[HTC Amaze 4G] oryan_dunn:
Yep, complete bull!
[HTC Amaze 4G] brainbone:
Any response from FSF?

Probably time to start emailing the copyright holders of the various pieces of code. Juuso Oikarinen <juuso.oikarinen@nokia.com>

and Luciano Coelho <coelho@ti.com> are listed for the WLAN drivers.
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
How should I respond to it?
[HTC Amaze 4G] ziggy46:
hasoon, have we made any progress towards htc giving us what we want?
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
Not yet. We need someone to read into GPL v2 and find something in there that shows that HTC is lying to us, again.
[HTC Amaze 4G] daswahnsinn:
" Other source codes (such as TI WLAN), which are not required to be disclosed by the open source license terms, unfortunately cannot be disclosed by HTC as they may be proprietary to HTC or its licensor. "

Okay why don't they just say it's proprietary, TI WLAN, again then tell us who to email next? I know we already know who, but this beating aroung the bush **** is what will make me never buy another HTC again.
[HTC Amaze 4G] oryan_dunn:
But it's not proprietary. If they made 'proprietary' modifications to the code, then they are breaking the GPL.
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
Get in detail and I will respond back. I saw that the TI WLAN is licensed under GPL/BSD.
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
Filing a BBB complaint right now.
[HTC Amaze 4G] zeio2040:
From my understanding, distribution of a GPL-licensed product (in this case the kernel and related modules) requires you to provide source code including any and all modifications to said code. So if HTC modified the drivers in any way they're still required to provide complete source code.

Giving HTC Developer Support links to forum threads potentially containing proof doesn't work all that well. Directly supplying the relevent info in the reply field will get your point across much faster and directly calls them out on their lie.
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
My response.
[HTC Amaze 4G] fcpelayo:
This sounded more about right. Let's wait and see now. I noticed part or similar to josh response to HTC (this means good lol)
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
I'll keep you guys posted, as always!
[HTC Amaze 4G] joshua_:
Hi gang.

Floyd messaged me on LiveJournal, in response to my previous post about having GPL issues with HTC.

To assess things better, is there a concise statement as to what the current situation is? It looks like in the past, you folks had trouble with the kernel itself, but best I understand it, that's resolved right now; is that true? If the situation is just a handful of modules, to the best we know, modules are not covered under the GPL (unless they use EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPLed symbols). As far as I can tell, htcdev.com has source for at least one ICS version (3.0.16-a4fb83c). Does this not match up with what you have?

In the example you pasted above, you gave a BRCM module, which is dual-licensed BSD/GPL. Unfortunately, this means that HTC and BRCM get to choose whether they wish to follow the terms of the GPL or the BSD license, not you; i.e., if they wish to follow the terms of the BSD license, which more or less permits them to do as they like, then they have no obligation to give you the source for the WiFi or Bluetooth modules. I wish I had better news. If you can point to modules that are GPL-licensed that are community-maintained for which they refuse to provide source, then you will stand a much higher chance of success, though.

joshua
[HTC Amaze 4G] fcpelayo:
Wow quick reply, thank you for listening Joshua. As you can see we need clarification. Thank you for your time.

Floyd.
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
HTC's reply
[HTC Amaze 4G] oryan_dunn:
As brainbone posted, the only module running on the Amaze that's dual licensed is the compat.ko module, most likely from compat-wireless project (it's dual licensed there as well). I think since other modules licensed as GPL require the compat.ko module, that it must be licensed as GPL, but I'm not too sure. At any rate, I doubt they had to modify compat.ko, as I think that's just an abstraction layer between kernel version binary interface. As a starting point, I'd like them to say what version of compat-wireless they used.

You'll probably end up talking to the same guy I did. And all he'll be able to do is 'forward on your complaint to the proper people'. But, I wish you luck.
[HTC Amaze 4G] JonathanBarca10:
And around and round we go.

Very sad to see HTC doing this.
[HTC Amaze 4G] joshua_:
Now we're getting somewhere :)

Going through each module:

bluetooth, bnep, rfcomm, and hidp should be part of the kernel source -- that is, they can be built directly from the dump they gave you, in theory.

cfg80211 and mac80211 are part of the kernel, I believe.

I believe that hid-magicmouse is part of the kernel, so check to see if it's in the source they gave you. If it's not, the authors might be willing to enforce.

fm_drv should be part of the kernel: look in drivers/media/radio/wl128x.

btwilink is part of the kernel in recent times -- is it not part of the dump they gave you?

compat.ko is part of wireless-compat, I believe.

wl12xx and wl12xx_sdio.ko may be part of wireless-compat -- did they give you that in the dump? If not, that's a reasonable thing to ask for (though you're not stuck without it, at least). You're very unlikely to convince the owners of that code to enforce, though, given that they're the ones selling the part to HTC.

So, it seems like all of these modules should be in the dump they gave you -- the only ones that I would expect to be missing are wl12xx, if they forgot to tar up wireless-compat. Can you describe in more detail which source files you looked for corresponding to these binaries that you didn't find?

joshua
[HTC Amaze 4G] oryan_dunn:
The dump they gave us have the makefile for wl12xx commented out and the corresponding modules are not set to build in the ruby_defconfig. Reinstating those lines and building does not build a functioning WiFi driver. I haven't spent much time looking at the other modules, but I believe most of the wifi related are part of compat-wireless. At least it'd be nice if they would tell us or we could figure out what version of compat-wireless they used. Since they haven't released the source, I wonder if they didn't make any changes, and assume they don't have to provide the source when asked (which is false). But their past history would indicate otherwise, that they perhaps did make changes and didn't release (since building several versions of compat-wireless, and none seemed to work).

I appologize, I haven't had the time to get a build environment setup so I can monkey around myself with this code. I may have some free time in a couple weeks to devote to it.
[HTC Amaze 4G] joshua_:
Ahh, I see. So it looks like they are missing compat-wireless, but not anything in mainline -- is that correct? If so, then you need to point out what they are missing, instead of saying just "kernel source". They probably do not know that they are missing anything.

You should try to find some developers involved in Linux wireless to go to bat for you, if that doesn't pan out. It would be useful to get decompilations of where the published binaries differ from the source, too, to prove that they really are in violation (and that it's not an issue in your build system somehow).
[HTC Amaze 4G] PhxkinMassacre:
everyone check this out. i have started a movement and am spreading it like wild fire. the key to get this to work is to get all htc users on board and not just 1 device.

link: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1821328
[HTC Amaze 4G] aznvi3tric3guy:
Wow are they serious? HTC EVO 4g source code isn't released yet?
[HTC Amaze 4G] JonathanBarca10:
HTC is serious about screwing themselves over lol its things like this that are causing them to lose money. Shame cause they had some good phones, theyve just dropped the ball on letting people be more involved.
[HTC Amaze 4G] itsmarkxd:
i agree with you 100%

HTC was my first smartphone (tmobile g1) and it made me turn into a fan boy of some sorts. lol but i have to say their products arent iphone knockoffs like samsung did. HTC has a unique flare to their build quality

but their support oh my god. why even make a android phone if they arent gonna release kernels. whats so wrong with giving out kernels? when you ask them that they give you a generic answer.

HTC before you release the phone make sure you can release the whole source code prior or days later after a handset is released!
[HTC Amaze 4G] PiePiePie:
HTC Dev added Wind Mobile, Mobilicity and Videotron source code now, is it the same as the TELUS?
[HTC Amaze 4G] Ashcunak:
they all appear to have the same file name and come from the same folder on the web server, yet they have different version numbers.. is this some trickery of the web server serving up the files from a temp location or are they actually all the exact same file..

ran comp at command prompt on two of them and they appear to be the same.. thats.. odd isn't it? (sorry should we drag this into a diff thread?)
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
HTC has 1 more day to respond to my BBB complaint. Sounds like they don't care. Maybe we should have more people sending them complaints?
[HTC Amaze 4G] fcpelayo:
What happens after one more day tho?
[HTC Amaze 4G] JonathanBarca10:
Annihilation.

or you know, whatever really happens.
[HTC Amaze 4G] Ashcunak:
Nothing happens, the BBB doesn't actually mean anything or do anything except put a bad mark in the BBB database.

Customers who care can check the database.. ive never known anyone to care enough to look it up in BBB.

At most if they ever had an accreditation logo on their website they would have to take it down.. i doubt they ever had one tho..
[HTC Amaze 4G] fcpelayo:
They don't or ever did
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
I know for BBB Accredited Businesses, they have to respond. I guess since HTC isn't (No surprise!), they won't respond. At least it may hurt their chances of becoming one or whatever.
[HTC Amaze 4G] dkb218:
Next time you speak to HTC, bring up what their CEO said:

http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-c...ore-decisive?utm_source=ac&utm_medium=twitter

As such, CEO Peter Chou recently emailed employees, HTC Chairwoman Cher Wang and the company’s board of directors calling for a change in HTC’s inner workings. The internal email, leaked to Bloomberg and confirmed as authentic by an HTC spokesperson, calls for staffers to kill the “bureaucracy” that “crept in without clear ownership.” Chou said, “We agreed to do something but we either didn’t do it or executed it loosely.”
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
I emailed Peter Chou. Hopefully it may help. Don't expect a response or anything, but we shall see!

Dear Mr. Chou,

My name is Odai (last name) and I am a 20 year old college student. I am currently studying as an undergraduate at the University of Illinois at Chicago. I am studying Business Management with a minor in Entrepreneurship. I am also an software developer on XDA-Developers and I am also an amateur at Custom ROM development.

You may or may not respond to what I have to say, but I would at least like for you to hear me out.

I currently own an HTC Amaze 4G and development for us is crippled by the way HTCDev have been with releasing our source code. However, I am not only speaking about the Amaze 4G owners, I am speaking on behalf of all HTC owners. The last generation models (Amaze 4G, Vivid, Rezound, MyTouch 4G Slide, etc) has had stifled innovation due to HTC and HTCDev's lack of cooperation.

We have reviewed the licenses of the source and they are all GPL. Therefore, it must be released under the GPLv2 license. However, HTC has been giving us bogus responses such as "HTC will normally publish this within 90 to 120 days. This time frame is within the requirements of the open source community." If you think about it, with our rapid growth of technology, that time frame will make the device outdated. Many people are infuriated with the way HTC and HTCDev have been with their customers. Many people sold their HTC device and switched to the Samsung Galaxy devices.

With the encryption of bootloaders, it has made it hard for people to get simple root access to their phones. Samsung has an unlocked bootloader, but it's truly unlocked. With HTCDev, they only give us access to the recovery, data, and system partition. That is not a truly unlocked bootloader,

I remember when HTC only sold Windows Mobile devices and Android has lead to HTC in higher sales and growth. HTC can still regain their market share by working with their customers. Think about it like this, you just spent $500 on your device and you do not like the applications T-Mobile has added, so you decide you want to root your phone and remove it. You go on XDA-Developers.com and look at your phone forum, you see there in not even a simple access root for the device. People are seeing this now and are not pleased. Samsung has even hired Steve Kondik from XDA-Developers to work with them. Steve Kondik is the founder of the famous custom ROM "CyanogenMod". HTC has been a little friendlier with the Development community but not so much.

We have read the email that was leaked out about how HTC should "kill the bureaucracy." I believe HTC should remanage the way they operate internally as well as externally.

I would like for you to take this email into consideration. You do not need to reply back. It would be nice if you did so I can at least tell our community that you truly do care about our voice, but I will not be expecting it.

Thank you for your time.

Odai (last name)
[HTC Amaze 4G] vinniej:
Excellent email hasoon. You can only hope he takes the time to read it and do something about it.
[HTC Amaze 4G] paperWastage:
so tl'dr of thread (of current news) is that:

HTC released the ICS kernel source code on their HTCDev of Amaze 4G(but not for t-mobile)

The kernel source code is missing some parts that HTC removed

what is HTC's rationale for removing them? proprietary over the 90-120 time delay that they claim they need?
[HTC Amaze 4G] oryan_dunn:
Except they're not proprietary. The code they haven't released builds GPL licensed kernel modules.
[HTC Amaze 4G] paperWastage:
I mean, what did HTC claim (after releasing the code) as the reasoning for cleaning out those portions?

before, they claimed that it was proprietary and they needed 60-120 days to "clean" it up before releasing, and it was BS b/c of the license(that you need to release the source code as-is how it was used to compile and build the binary)
[HTC Amaze 4G] oryan_dunn:
I think they still claim proprietary. But the cleaning of their 'proprietary' code from the kernel is itself against the GPL. They need to release all code that gets built into their kernel (which is GPL), as well as code for any GPL modules (all but one, which is dual licensed). If they've added 'proprietary' code to the kernel, then that's their mistake if they didn't intend on releasing it. I think the point is they don't really have any legal ground to stand on.
[HTC Amaze 4G] the show stopper:
what's peter chau's email ? i want to email him also.
[HTC Amaze 4G] :
i'll do that 2, and hopefully they'd give it to us :)
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
They responded to my complaint

My response
[HTC Amaze 4G] :
hey guys when i send htc an email they sent me this

Thank you for contacting HTC regarding Kernel Source code. I know that this code is important to the development community and I will be happy to assist you with the correct information regarding this.

HTC is committed to assisting customers in getting kernel source code for HTC devices. We will release source code in accordance with any applicable open source license terms. We are working to release appropriate kernel code bases as soon as possible after device launch but we cannot guarantee the exact time frame. Other source codes, which are not required to be disclosed by the open source license terms, unfortunately cannot be disclosed by HTC as they may be proprietary to HTC or its licensor.

Please keep an eye on http://developer.htc.com for more information
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
same bull**** excuse. They're idiots.
[HTC Amaze 4G] :
do u think they gonna put it
[HTC Amaze 4G] oryan_dunn:
Those m-efers, they have released the source code to the Evo 3D ICS on Sprint, which that update was released just a couple weeks ago. Also, the ICS source for the Rezound is posted as well, who also got their update after us. I'm happy that the other guys have got their source, but it's just looking worse and worse for HTC at this point. After my flawless ICS upgrade on my Gtab 8.9, the grass is looking pretty green over in Samsung land.

Samsung has in the past released source code for devices even before they hit retail, they way it should be!
[HTC Amaze 4G] :
hey guys is that wt we are looking for

I think the source code is up
[HTC Amaze 4G] hasoon2000:
That's old news. I posted that a few pages back. They didn't release the full source. That's the point of this thread.
[HTC Amaze 4G] oryan_dunn:
Yeah, it's still not the source for the T-Mobile build.
[HTC Amaze 4G] Flynch3211:
They dont even have any RUU or OTA for Videotron in the thumbnail. I went there and found some source code for ICS with Videotron... But I'm stuck as I do not operate Linux :( so i cannot look at it.

:crying:
[HTC Amaze 4G] PiePiePie:
T-Mobile Source?

Does it help the development now that the T-Mobile source is out or is it still the same BS from HTC?