yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Networking] drachers:
They're oversubscribed, and this is their way of shedding customers and making it seem like the users' fault. The amount of victim blaming going on at the twitter side is impressive.

Despite being one of the heaviest users on the service I would be in favour of banning any company from advertising an unlimited service or equivalent. Unlimited implies infinite and nobody has that kind of capacity. Just tell me how much I can use it and how much it costs. I would pay £50 a month for a guaranteed 100 gig, for instance, assuming it could be tethered and used as house internet.
[Networking] cirian75:
That sadly makes sense.

---------- Post added at 05:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:26 PM ----------

Erm

this thread been moved to Networking

surely this is important enough to left in standard general chat.
[Networking] Hands0n:
What "victim blaming" on Twitter? I've been monitoring it all day and have yet to see any such suggestion.

As frustrating as it is I think we need to keep a cool head on this issue. There is no malign intention that is apparent. Most likely is that they've got the settings for TrafficSense wrong through human or design error.

The problem is easily fixed - we've just got to get the point across to Three in a sane and sensible way.
[Networking] cirian75:
50kbps

grrrrrr :mad:
[Networking] drachers:
Granting the first premise of "these people are using the service too much" implies their service has limits after all. And when I lose service for 9 hours a day, that implies punishment. I didn't pee in their soup or anything.

The language all the way through that product description on multiple pages within the site just oozes bravado and begs the users to just hammer the thing to their heart's content. If they'd put a "responsible browsing" campaign up to ensure equal bandwidth and capacity for all, that would have been a different thing entirely.

When they spout the party line of the top 5% being throttled, it's all well and good but they should have published their contingency plans in full in the T&Cs. There are people on loooong contracts having to deal with this and wondering where the line in the sand is - which by the way has not been specified despite some very clearly stated questions.

Anyway, I have had a series of sensible, level-headed telephone conversations with the India helpdesk but can't get through to the second line techies as yet. Unsurprising as I'm sure they're being forced into 20-hour shifts to meet the current support nightmare their management created.
[Networking] HarrowingLife:
They will not listen, they've tried to get me to end my contract with them, on the condition that I give them my mobile phone. I'm sure they'll be making the same offer to other users.

I think we might have got a "accidental" hint today though, @ThreeUKSupport on Twitter made a weird tweet

The tweet was only noticed by a few people and was promptly deleted. I'm sure a couple people here saw it though.

Edit: We need to get this solved. TCP Timeouts, Latency above several seconds, and the fact that with the restriction you can download 3GB a week during 3PM-12AM (If you only download at those times) with this throttle, assuming your download even works. Why are they punishing legit users? Theres no way i'm in the 5% for the past 15 days! I downloaded Diablo 3 after 12AM (Which they say is excluded, as long as you download 12AM to 3PM) and other than that, a little bit of YouTube and mostly playing World of Warcraft! (Which is now unplayable due to the latency issue, and it only needs 56Kbps too!)

I'm now making a short video showing the drastic impact it has between 11:55PM and 12AM (Already got the video recorded, just going to put it together)

If anyone want's to add some footage, please add it to this thread. Hopefully we'll be able to get some media attention which will hopefully make Three fix the latency issue and increase the allowance to at least 1Mbps!
[Networking] Hands0n:
Perhaps I'm just being pedantic, do excuse, :D but I've not seen the Twitter team use that language (".. these people are using the service too much").

I believe that there will be "interesting" conversations going on internally at Three. They did, after all, go out with a fanfare about supporting cut-off remote villages in support of the Government's Broadband Britain campaign. This TrafficSense issue will be majorly embarrassing for Three and the government minister who went along for the ride.

I don't think that this issue will persist for too long. The outburst on Social Media and forums is deafening. There cannot be anyone not living in a hole in the ground who is not aware of this.

Clearly, this is a network fault that can be simply remedied by the relevant teams ;)

Cudos to you sir for the "sensible" conversations with the India helpdesk. :) Truly impressive.
[Networking] HarrowingLife:
I'm making a video to show exactly what its like to suffer this throttle. My footage is from 11:55PM to 12:03AM showing before and after.

I chose none other than Three's own web page for this video. (As well as Speedtest.net)

If anyone would like to submit some footage for inclusion before I upload it to YouTube please let me know on here.

P.S. Got someone else's SIM. Tethered, playing YouTube 1080p fine. No sign of congestion around here! But I do also have Three saying this on Friday when it first hit!
[Networking] Bottomless Pete:
Do these sound like the words of someone who had all he could eat?
[Networking] cirian75:
3 goes to get this page loaded

So maddening when I can actually see the threes mast less than 150 meters away
[Networking] drachers:
The India chaps did agree with just about every point I made. I hope they don't lose their jobs as a result.

The twitter team did not say those exact words. They merely parroted the one or two sentences they were authorised to say, and deaf-eared most questions that went for specifics. Almost like it's not their job to service customers!

As I worked for BT for two years I often take a dim view of the telecoms game, since massive price-gouging on texts went out of fashion data is the next battleground. Every telecoms company has an unwritten rule to create as much of a false scarcity as possible to ensure they don't need to upgrade for contention. Three mobile tried to put their heads above the parapet first on this issue and they're now forced to backpedal as they realise their network hasn't got the shoes for this much tapdancing. Mix-o metaphor-o!

Which is fair enough, but they need to at least find a functional minimum for the throttlees. Poor, poor throttlees.
[Networking] HarrowingLife:
Can anyone explain to me why they aren't just using a QoS priority based system and making "heavy users" aka the 5% (More likely 2-20% in the technical team's eyes) lowest priority on the network, leaving everyone else with fast internet and the 5% with usable connections still?

I refuse to believe that they are trying to get rid of people in Rural area's who have no alternative than Three for internet along with those that download 1TB a month. (I did manage 200GB one month to be honest, I never should have had a Netflix Trial!)
[Networking] cirian75:
Jezz, that makes my 22gb average look sane
[Networking] drachers:
On sober reflection I'm willing to put it down to management incompetence rather than techy incompetence.

I crash-tested to the tune of 300GB in november then dropped things back to under 100GB per month. Not one text or email saying "we're changing our service to benefit bandwidth availability to customers, on that basis KNOCK IT OFF BOZO". Just the priviledge of getting knocked off the internet after 3pm. Stay classy.
[Networking] mardon85:
Same issue here. Just got off the phone with 2nd tear technical support (who had no answers or argument to my point). I'm now awaiting a call from a manager.

I'm going to try and return my phone and end the contract. I have no home phone or broadband so this is vital for me and 20kbps is pretty much unusable.

I asked him "what is the data usage trigger betwen 3pm and 12:00am where I will get the 7 day throttle?" He went away and asked, his reply was "I'm sorry I do not currently have any information on the usage trigger". So as a customer i'm expected to be in limbo and worry when I will trigger the throttle which will essentially make my internet unusable.

Will someone show me any information anywhere where it states what they have done is legal?
[Networking] cirian75:
Some clueless high up pointy haired boss type will have bought the speed sense of the shelf and forced the Dilbert types to do it against their protests.
[Networking] waz000000:
are 3 stopping you downloading?

im no fan of 3 network but they havent breached anything, they are slowing you down but not stopping you this is within the rules of the contract.

It's still unlimited as in you can still use it no where did they say at what speed, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you havent a leg to stand on.

bandwidth shaping is an accepted thing in the eyes of ofcom and therefore any court.

whilst you can use it no matter how slow they do not breach any terms, sucks but im afraid thats the law
[Networking] cirian75:
three called on the phone, will report back
[Networking] cirian75:
Sub dial speeds are stopping us

We time out most of the time
[Networking] drachers:
Second line support rang, same again. Agrees with everything, can't do anything. Recommended I not use my internets between 3 and 12. I recommended she find whatever list I was on and take me off it, allowing us all to start afresh. Alas she did not have the means to talk to the large-headed techies.

The only way this is going to go our way is through bad PR. Shouldn't take long at this rate.
[Networking] mardon85:
Yeah 0.20mbps is crazy slow!

If they'd warned me or told me a trigger and set an acceptible speed limit i'd probably have taken it a little better. The way it is now it feels more like a punishment. High data use or note, I paid for Unlimited data to use the internet. My high usuage is because where i'm currently staying in the week there is no interent and I use my love film subscription as well as steaming ITV, I player etc.

Dont offer a service if you can't provide it.
[Networking] cirian75:
Talked to customer service girl and 1st line

Usual stuff like download at other times, told them impossible as I work 8am till 6pm

I'm being escalated to 2nd line

Supposed to ring me within 48 hours.

---------- Post added at 07:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:19 PM ----------

thank bob for my neighbor Shaun and his WiFi

It may be only a 1.5mbps BT line but it works

Case of what ever he wants on Friday night.
[Networking] ToyGun123:
Same crap speed today glad i cancelled my samsung galaxy s3 preorder with THREE. Going to T mobile FOR Samsung galaxy s3
[Networking] drachers:
Can anyone tell me if T-Mobile's "Full Monty" service is subject to this kind of rubbish? I have signal enough to give it a shot. On Tmo 1.5 gig "large internet" on my main phone but I would give up my number to have a working home internet.
[Networking] HarrowingLife:
Yes actually they have, you're lucky to successfully load a webpage when this hits! Three's own webpage takes over 2 minutes to load! Assuming it actually loads! Alot of web-pages are breaking up half way through DOWNLOADING
[Networking] blair287:
im afraid to say they are throttling all internet if you have a set usage or "unlimited".
[Networking] cirian75:
crapola :mad:
[Networking] HarrowingLife:
We've heard otherwise today, have you got a source that isn't referring to Torrents and other things of that nature?

4GB so far this evening on a different SIM Card. No Denial of Throughput so far.
[Networking] blair287:
my uncle who lives up the road has a 15GB a month dongal hes being throttled same as me.

Three phoned im meant to be getting a phone call back from higher management and i said that if its not resolved by the ends of a week with a fair solution i will cancel my contract without penalty and the guys said we will respect your decision.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=53414947 they have noticed it else where now!

three wouldnt let me cancel my contract saying i had to w8 for complaints manager to phone me.
[Networking] drachers:
Got bored waiting. I live in a rural area where Three and Tmobile are the only sideshow in town, so I cancelled my terrible backup ADSL and upgraded my Tmobile contract to Full Monty. Tmobile won't kick in with the update till next billing date, so keeping Three around for offpeak japes till then.

When not being throttled by their respective providers, both Three and Tmobile seem to hover around 3.6 meg, which is perfectly acceptable. I might keep both around to spread the load of our colossal usage patterns (six different gadgets vying for attention).

Kudos to Three for being excellent for the last six months though.
[Networking] cirian75:
sorry to see you go forced to leave three matey

100% Three's fault
[Networking] drachers:
Actually... I still might end up keeping both! Can't imagine the current situation will be the norm.
[Networking] cirian75:
That'll be expensive

But I can see your point.

And I don't like how rural people will be the ones really hurt by trafficsense silly 5%
[Networking] drachers:
I can justify the cost. One is for my personal phone so won't be an always-on thing, the other will be sellotaped to the window with a usb cable plugged in and tethering active, taking the place of cable/adsl. Cancelling my adsl will actually end up saving me £13, once you take the extra fiver for the Tmobile upgrade into account.

The only issue would be switching SIM every so often depending on which of the two providers is having a good week.
[Networking] cirian75:
I really want to watch this but can't :(

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01j9g15
[Networking] HarrowingLife:
Believe me it hurts. The locals are all getting hit, while passing by traffic seems to make up the 95%. Would be nice if Three would back up what they said about wanting to support Rural area's with 2Mbps.
[Networking] AlecE:
This has nothing to do with the bandwidth limits being applied to heavy users, this relates to the increase in monthly charges in line with RPI. The price increase only applies to consumers who joined before 8th March 2012 (contracts after that date have the cost factored into them so have been paying it for 4 months before the majority of users will see the increase) and have pay monthly contracts with a minimum term greater than 30 days (i.e. not SIM only customers, PAYG or business customers).

Alec
[Networking] HarrowingLife:
My mistake, thank you for pointing this out. I guess I was hoping this was going to be the case :(

I'm uploading a video now showing Speedtest.net at 11:55PM and 12:02AM and Three's own web site browsing at these two times as well to show just how detrimental this throttle is!
[Networking] blair287:
yes please post the video and link it here thanks!

I have one question if they do let you cancle your contract without punishment do you have to send the phone back?
[Networking] HarrowingLife:
Video

Video showing 11:50PM and 12AM Speedtests as well as browsing Three's own website with the Throttle and without the Throttle.

YouTube Link

[YOUTUBE]HuHXwNUDY4I[/YOUTUBE]

Please watch in 720p, I'm sorry about the Black Borders.

Starts with the 2 Speedtests and then shows you browsing Three.co.uk which is boring to watch due to how slow it is. It also shows a TCP Connection breaking.

I've backlinked the video to this topic in the description.
[Networking] blair287:
cheers i cant watch it now but i might be able to in 30 mins

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
[Networking] swukjay:
I just want to point out to those viewing this thread that you DONT have to return the phone when you end the contract, the phone is a gift and is your to keep and DOES NOT form part of the contract WHATEVER three tell you. Orange tried to do that when they upped their call charges a while back and I and many of my friends walked away with the handsets after I rang orange for them! I earnt quite a few beers over that week! :D
[Networking] HarrowingLife:
Off Topic: But seriously thanks for telling me about that! William Shatner as host, this is sure to be a good watch now that I have fully functional internet again (Its gone 12AM)

I hope my useless video skills in Windows Live Movie Maker are good enough in the video I've done. I'm happy to provide the source files on request (They are large, encoded in the FRAP's codec)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Repost:

Video showing 11:50PM and 12AM Speedtests as well as browsing Three's own website with the Throttle and without the Throttle.

YouTube Link

[YOUTUBE]HuHXwNUDY4I[/YOUTUBE]

Please watch in 720p, I'm sorry about the Black Borders.

Starts with the 2 Speedtests and then shows you browsing Three.co.uk which is boring to watch due to how slow it is. It also shows a TCP Connection breaking.

I've backlinked the video to this topic in the description.
[Networking] cirian75:
There's already a company called TrafficSense

The deal in managing road traffic

They won't be happy once three's TrafficSense starts showing next to them in google search results.
[Networking] mardon85:
Also as a side note. A few things to confirm.

This is not 6pm until 12:01am it is 3pm until 12:01am

IT IS NOT MAST BY MAST. I drove from Work (one Mast) to Home another mast then to the Wirral 50 miles away and all 3 mast I was limited to 0.15mbps.

Gonna fight this and try and walk away from the contract!

Sent them a tweet, wonder if they will reply...
[Networking] Hands0n:
Guys, this is nothing to do with usage on the local mast. The TrafficSense works on the individual's usage of data, not on how much the local cell consumes. That is why your throttle will persist as you move from cell to cell regardless. So, in principle, if you've been hit then it means that TrafficSense has decided that you are in the top 5% of data usage across the entire Three data network.

I am optimistic that this situation will not persist in its present form for very much longer. Three, like any other network, will use traffic management to mitigate the impact of the higher data users to the network as a whole. Some of the figures being bandied about on here (300GB said one!) are extraordinarily high. You'd have trouble with a lot of terrestrial ISPs with that kind of usage.

Today is only the second working day that the crap has been majorly hitting the fan. Three are completely aware of how popular this has turned out to be ;) And they do have a history of listening to the customer (recall when they extended Tethering to the 30-day plan where at first it was not permitted).

My advice to anyone thinking of jumping off to another network is to consider that you'll suffer the same fate inevitably if you persist with the use of data as if there truly is not capacity limit to the network itself.
[Networking] mardon85:
I'll admit my traffic has been high recently (purchased some cracking deals on STEAM) and our broadband has gone down at the flat so i've been using the various streaming services.

I don't mind limiting downloads from now on from off peak hours, thats not a problem at all.

What I don't think is acceptable is that there are no clear outlines or trigger points for me to adhere to so I have no clue when my internet will be throttled and essentially become unusable.

Its 2012.. the iplayer eara.

As above can't see this staying as it is.

If you read the information on THIS page it all seems perfectly acceptable and fair.

Unfortunatly the reality is very different.
[Networking] Bottomless Pete:
TrafficSense facts document

In the TrafficSense fact document they claim "Level of speed reduction? 100 KBps on average" that is around 800Kbps, however i am getting 0.02MB when i run tests. This doesn't seem very fair.

Also when they list "What type of traffic is managed during these periods?", the only thing that is ticked is Peer to Peer. It seems a bit confusing to me.
[Networking] Hands0n:
I totally agree. The ambiguity of the information is literally pouring petrol on the flames of all of this. Regardless of the nature of the controls, liberal or draconian, the basic information on parameters of use are vital to allow people to take the reasonable steps to moderate their use. Those that choose not to will suffer whatever fate awaits them :eek: And there will always be those individuals.

The hard part is defining what 5% is of a figure of capacity and usage that the general public do not know, and that could represent trade confidential information. However, it would not take too long with the network capacity and planning team to work out a figure that was suitable for use. One could, for example, throw out 60GB as the ceiling whether or not that was factually the case. The other 95% of users wouldn't get anywhere near close to that figure of usage.

But the other part to this is the consequential throttle speed has all be crippled use of the service. The documentation says 100Kbps and the reality appears to be 20Kbps. Either way, this is also a dreadfully low speed. My own thoughts are that something around 1Mbps (or 2Mbps to meet "Broadband Britain" requirements) would be better and represent a significant reduction in capability to impact the network.

My thoughts on the matter :)
[Networking] cirian75:
Not happy bunny

Had a phone call from three, someone in the executive office, an English guy

I got the feeling he was management, not tech support.

He told about how I was being traffic managed by TrafficSense, would not let me call it throttling.

He told me my data usage was much much higher than my iPhones data counter.

iPhone data counter said 60GB over 79 days, he said 90GB in March, 60GB in April.

One or all three of these figures are wrong.

He gave me two options

calm it down and download between 00.01 and 14.59

Or leave penalty free, but must return the phone (confirmed by trading standards)

I got an email soon from him detailing his view of the call and his points again.

Rang OfCom, who sent me to Communications Ombudsman.

Who said they don't get involved with the commercial descions of a company and I should call OfCom.

Rang OfCom who said they would only get involved if the complaints got to a certain level

I rang Trading Standards, they said OfCom was not doing their job, and I could best help my case by sending a written recorded letter to Three and get this issue down in a hard paper trail.

Oh, and I've sent a complaint to ASA regards what I think is false advertising by Three.
[Networking] Hands0n:
NB: Those of you who have gone for Diablo, that 2.5GB download, may not be aware of it's continuing on-line data-usage requirements. These may well aggravate any data usage of yours, planned or otherwise!

Reported in The Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/may/27/diablo-3-review?newsfeed=true
[Networking] mardon85:
Expecting a call from a manager at some point myself.

I would be happy if speeds were between 100 and 200 kbps but 20kbps is unusable. I will also happily move any downloads to the off peak time. No more internet radio or steaming iplayer..

Not really using my smart phone how I want when I want is it? As advertised by three. Remeber t-mobile got done for something similar. This will go the same way I expect.

On a side note the 5% is a Grey area. Here is my simplified understanding of it. Am I correct?

So if on one mast you have 95 people downloading 100mb a month then 5 downloading 105mb they would be in that 5% and then throttled. The system would then work out the top 5% of the remaining 95 people and so on and so forth.
[Networking] wml:
Yep thats how i see it too so effectively eventually nobody will be using there phones peak times to do anything except the odd email and website and then if they get away with this they will roll the system out to 24hrs a day

Not what they advertised at all its actually the most limited 3G service currently available in the uk