yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Networking] Daveoc64:
At least I have an argument!

You've not stated anything in terms of:

-case history

-past experience

-anything relevant in the contract

-any law

That supports what you're saying

As I mentioned earlier, I'm really only relaying something that Three said before and that was unchallenged back then (end of 2010).

I have no reason to doubt what Three said (it makes sense to me)

It doesn't even bother me personally - I'm on a rolling contract with Three and have been since the start of the year, when I switched from O2.

I simply posted it because I thought some people might find it helpful.

---------- Post added at 08:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:06 PM ----------

Perhaps I could further prove that I'm not a Three employee by saying some of these things:

-Three has the worst online account page of any of the UK networks - hands down. You can't see your itemised usage until you get your monthly bill.

-They use some pretty dodgy legal tactics (such as this). Most networks would simply have terminated the contract with such a change, but Three takes any potential for loss more seriously and applies the letter of the contract. While it's not necessarily illegal (IMHO), it's just poor for customer relations and gives them a bad image.

-Their voicemail service is poor. SMS notifications only, no iPhone Visual Voicemail

-The switching off of 2G coverage in most areas (where they "think" that the 3G signal is good enough) has resulted in some places really having little to no coverage at all.

-Their foreign call centre is hit and miss. It's ok if you've got a small query, but anything more than that and you'll be stuck in a script for hours

These are not things that an employee would post.

As I've mentioned before, check out my profile at Digital Spy - http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/member.php?u=38105 (I post there daily, often about Three - both good and bad)

I found out about this thread by following a link from there.

It will show you that I'm a student (Computing - not law!) and that I live in Bristol and have done ever since I was born (or at least 2003 when I joined the site).

One other thing to note, is that I joined this site at the end of last year - when I bought a Kobo Vox tablet and was looking for a development community. There isn't really one for it, so I didn't end up posting anything.
[Networking] swukjay:
SEE YOUR DOING IT AGAIN THE QUESTION IS

A:IS THE PRODUCT FIT FOR PURPOSE OR HAS IT BEEN MISREPRESENTED ( a nice legal term for CONNED) and not soga but tort

B:CAN THREE FORCE YOU TO GIVE UP YOUR OWN PROPERTY OR THEY WONT END THE CONTRACT EVEN THOUGH ITS NOT PART OF THE AGREEMENT?

I THINK I KNOW WHAT A JUDGE WOULD HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT

NOW IM NOT GOING TO ARGUE POINTS WITH YOU ANYMORE AS

A: IM SURE IM RIGHT

B: YOUR NOT THE JUDGE

C: I REST MY CASE M,LARD

THE QUESTIONS ANYONE NEEDS TO ASK WITHOUT GOING TO MUCH INTO HOW I KNOW THIS IS WHO SOUNDS OR WHO SEEMS LIKELY TO BE CORRECT AND BE TALKING FACTS AND LAW? AND WE ARE TALKING LEGAL NOT SILLY HYPOTHESIS.. ME......OR YOU?

YOU HAVE A CHOICE..GIVE THE HANDSET BACK EVEN THOUGH YOU DONT NEED TO AND GET SCREWED TWICE BY THREE AND HAVE TO BE WITHOUT A HANDSET PUTTING YOU IN A WORSE POSITION THAN YOU WERE BEFOR YOU TOOK OUT THE CON-TRACT....OR STAND YOU GROUND AND I CAN PROMISE YOU YOU WILL WIN! THE CHOICE IS YOURS ! THE LAW IS THERE TO PROTECT CONSUMERS AND CON-TRACTS ARE THEIR TO PROTECT BOTH PARTYS, ONLY THE TERMS OF THE CONTRACT CAN BE USED IN ANY ARGUMENT, THEREFORE IF YOU WANTED THE HANDSET BACK YOU SHOULD HAVE WRITTEN IT INTO THE AGREEMENT ...DAH
[Networking] greigster:
You are not that David O`Cullen that works in the 3 shop at Broadmead in Bristol are you? I remember you from when you used to work in the o2 shop just before Christmas.;)
[Networking] Daveoc64:
This is just plain wrong.

As I've said. The contract doesn't allow you to end it early because the traffic management policy changes.

Three is choosing to give people an option to get out of the contract. As the contract itself has nothing about this option, then what you say cannot possibly be true.

If the contract stipulates the only possible options on the table, why do you believe what you say to be true.

As mentioned by the earlier poster, it's a catch 22.

Either:

The contract is definitive and there's nothing that lets you cancel in this scenario (i.e. there's nothing in Section 10).

OR

The contract sets out some rules and procedures, but that others may exist if both parties consent to that.

I think this is an interesting question. The contract clearly states there is traffic management and that it can be varied, but would a court consider that the policy itself is too harsh and therefore an unfair contract term (giving grounds for cancellation without penalty)? I think that would be an interesting case.

As I've said, it's not anything to do with the contract anymore. Three is saying: "sure we'll end the contract, but only if you agree to give us x device in return". That device (x) could be anything - a lawnmower perhaps. It just makes sense for it to be the device they gave you.

I'm not arguing against you because I want you to back down. I'm arguing with you because I like a debate and I want to see what people think about these things.

The vested interest I have is that as a Three customer, I could end up with a crappy service if they throttle me.

---------- Post added at 08:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 PM ----------

Absolutely not.

Like I said, take a LOOK around the internet.

It'll be pretty clear that:

I'm from Bristol

I don't work for Three - or any other network (and never have)

I'm a student and have only ever had small part time jobs (not retail)

I regularly post about mobile networks on forums

I don't think Three is the best company in the world
[Networking] cirian75:
In that case I want my £50 back and the difference vs the sim only version of my plan for the last 7 months.
[Networking] swukjay:
The argument which you well know and is now getting boring is its not fit for purpose and not as described or advertised as no restrictions or hidden limits. Im pretty sure that everyone on here will take my word over yours! if you really want to test it out then give me your three employee details and your managers and I will see you in court! forcing people to hand over "THEIR" property is in my opinion downright outrageous and borderline theft and blackmail
[Networking] drachers:
The ball is in Three's court here, they know how we feel already so it's just a matter of what we can negotiate individually with them whilst we wait on the bad PR causing them to backpedal.

In the meantime, could someone get swukjay a new keyboard? The caps lock seems to be stuck. As this is one of the very few forum threads that really gets into this topic, any news organisations that try to navigate it are going to end up being repelled by the ranting. By the way, if any are reading, here's the summary:

-----

Three mobile employed some rather 'interesting' traffic management a few days back which has caused most of its throttlees to be without a useful connection between 3pm and 12am each day. They do not explain what the trigger level is beyond "5% of their subscribers", which is not a thing we can know offhand. This action was taken without warning so the heavy users were not given a chance to scale back their use.

The marketing language on their website selling the All You Can Eat plan is absolutely at odds with this. It promises an unending faucet of data free from any worries or limitations.

At the same time they've put up their prices mid-contract for most people, which isn't something I knew was possible, but there it is.

The solutions, as we see it, are thus:

Drop the throttling to something that can actually view a website without timing out, for instance 512kbps, and perhaps think about holding fast on their pricing for existing customers.

Easy done, really.

-----

-----
[Networking] Daveoc64:
Such a request might sound reasonable (I think it does), but the way that Three is looking at it is that they don't have any legal obligation to do anything to help you.

You could try and say:

Sure, I'll (customer) send the device back

You'll (Three) cancel the contract

But you'll also refund me the money I'm out of pocket

Unfortunately, as they're not under any obligation to make you an offer in the first place, they probably won't accept your terms.

That's of course assuming that they fight you in the first place. As has been mentioned, legal action isn't something they want. Nor is a lot of fuss - although Three are more likely to hold out than any of the other networks. Just look at their twitter feed. There's lots of people caught out by rigid enforcement of policy decisions that other networks wouldn't bat an eyelid at.
[Networking] swukjay:
dont you dare go giving that phone back lol !!!! Stand your ground..grow some balls man lol grow some balls :d
[Networking] Daveoc64:
Now this is definitely something I agree with you on. I think Three's fuss over their service being unique in that there was no hidden catch really cannot continue.

They are going to have to change their marketing or else they'll probably end up with some complaints to the ASA.

Is a service "unlimited" if it's throttled to 1kbps (extreme example) after "too much" usage?

I realise that I'm new here and that this is just something I have to put up with. Maybe eventually people will realise that I don't work for Three and I'm trying to help.

That would obviously be impossible. I don't work for Three and never have. As I've said, it's obvious that Three has virtually no employees in the UK.

I don't really think that a retail employee would care this much. Do you think someone on the McDonald's Drive Thru jumps in to defend them?

Nobody's forcing you to do anything. If you stick to the terms of the contract, then you don't have to give them the device! I don't see how a company offering you an option is in any way forcing, coercing, blackmailing or similar.
[Networking] mardon85:
So I spoke to a manager today. Phones going back to three and the £90 I paid for it into my pocket. Had a decent civilised chat. Didn't have a leg to stand on and apologized profusely. Here was the general gist.

1)I totally understand why the traffic management is in place and the benefits it brings.

2)I was not sold a contract that had any mention of said "traffic management" and actively advertised to not have any "hidden fair use policy".

3)I was given no prior warning so could not adjust my usage accordingly and was punished for a "crime" I was actively encourage to commit.

4)The throttling speed is far too severe at the point of being unusable

5)Three could not or would not give me a figure to work with to limit my peak usage meaning I would be constantly worried about having my internet throttled for a further 7 days.

That was basically it. Keep calm, be polite and know your facts. Had a decent chat and told him about the brewing media and customer backlash and advised him on what I recommended they do to find a happy medium.

Not bothered about keeping the phone. Had the ONE X three months out of a 24month contract. I think it would be pretty hard faced to think I could keep it.
[Networking] HarrowingLife:
It all started with Throttling back when All You Can Eat launched. They out-right denied it until the Media caught up, then it was fixed over night. It wasn't as bad as this Traffic Management though, IIRC it was 512Kbps 24/7 after using 2GB. You can see the original All You Can Eat Announcement page on 3Blog from December 2010 for more details on this. (You'll need to go to the oldest part of the comments, January 2011)

It only makes sense that they'd kill it with a throttle. I'm hoping they make it 10% or something and give us all at least 1Mbps so we can still use 21st Century internet, not 20th Century internet. I was going to go cinema tonight but can't decide what film to watch as I can not Stream the Trailers! Netflix is due for next payment but I feel I should now cancel. Sure they'll be happy with Three for losing my custom. Also cancelling World of Warcraft as latency issues make it unplayable during 3PM-12AM.

I guess I should thank Three from Free-ing me from the burdens and costs of Internet Services!

I see it all now, the internet is addictive, worse than Crack. Three are detoxing me with the Dial-Up speeds and then I can be Free once and for all from the Internet. I really do owe some Free thanks to Three :)

I really do think you should all read http://blog.three.co.uk/2011/11/18/...man-says-check-the-smallprint-on-‘unlimited’/

Edit: Also on the original Announcement Page, now the comments have loaded, baring in mind the post is from December 2010! Its full of other people who haven't come here that are going mental about this throttling.
[Networking] flyingcat:
It's a very significant degradation in service, to the point of being unusable.

Terms and Conditions cannot allow a company to all but cancel a paid for service.
[Networking] rolydj:
According to this comment posted by one of 3's mods (on their blog), it seems they only traffic manage users in congested areas? I've used 40GBs during the past two weeks but as I live almost in the middle of nowhere, maybe I'm less likely to get throttled?
[Networking] HarrowingLife:
POSSIBLE CHANCE: BBC News on Advert Complaints Article have open comments, feel free to mention Three UK. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18243577

I live in the middle of nowhere to. I used less than 15GB and got throttled. Motorway traffic and probably about 50 of us use Three all the time here. 10-12Mbps constant, which should speak for its self. Now I can barley load a web page!
[Networking] rolydj:
The max I get is only around 1Mbps down, which hasn't changed since I got the contract.

Where I live is almost at the end of their coverage I think, I can get 3Mbps driving past a few houses 10mins down the road :p
[Networking] blair287:
im going to phone three 2morrow and cancel my contract, will fight for my phone but if they wont back down ill try get half the phones worth back seems as i must have paid for half the phone over 1 year of a 2 year contract, failing all of that if i really have no choice i suppose ill send the phone back but not with out a fight.
[Networking] newbintraining:
Would this help?

I can't see them forcing you to give back the device, you technically own it whether you bought it outright or not with the contract.
[Networking] scoopex:
This is exactly right as when Orange changed their terms and conditions a few years ago I myself along with hundreds of others got contracts cancelled without any penalty and kept the phone.
[Networking] mardon85:
I think if you are over half way into your contract you should be able to keep the phone. I myself am three months in and think paying £90 for a £450 phone and three months service is a little hard faced. I'm sad about the whole situation as until Friday last week I was over the moon with Three and my phone :(
[Networking] cirian75:
facebook page

http://www.facebook.com/AllYouCanNibble

please join a spread it around
[Networking] mardon85:
Are you going to cancel your contract then Cirian?
[Networking] cirian75:
I'm undecided, I'm going to give 3 a chance to fix it

We only have till the 12th June though.
[Networking] Shiftone:
I'm cancelling as soon as I can get someone to offer me cancellation. At the moment I am being ignored by Three's twitter accounts, support blog, executive office, 333 refuse to have someone that can cancel my contract phone me.

Bye bye Three - you were good while you lasted but this is appalling.
[Networking] Classifeeds:
As far as I can see Three actually seem to be budging. My speeds went from 6kbps to 130kbps, Ok I'm still not happy but we need to keep on pushing them until we come to some sort of agreement.
[Networking] Shiftone:
Twitter is funny today. #allyoucannibble and @ThreeUK

plenty of potential new customers being warned about TrafficSense will now not be joining Three - That's around £800 a time out of Three's pocket.

Good
[Networking] jonmorris:
I also seemed to get a partial restoration of speed last night (before midnight) so maybe Three has simply not got the new service working properly.

I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this if things are solved in the next week or so.

As someone who pays £15 for 3GB of data, I'd not expect to EVER find myself being capped. Not based on location or time of day.

Three has stated it would only be a certain percentage of users, but it certainly did seem as if they'd applied caps to everyone - possibly due to a bug or three (!) in the system.

What Three needs to do now is actually issue some sort of statement, which explains everything once and for all, not directing to a URL that doesn't answer every question at all.

But let's be frank - with the current needs for mobile data, from file sharing to Netflix, YouTube, Dropbox/cloud services, OnLive etc, every network is going to have to be doing similar. That's why I can't see Vodafone or O2 daring to come out and say 'Hey, we don't do it' as they'll look rather stupid in the future.

I think Three was right to impose this, but they've messed up the implementation and failed to give sufficient notice.
[Networking] Hands0n:
As a matter of interest though, which comparable network will you migrate to? Is there another network that will take the usage that you want to place it under?

I do believe that all networks will enable active traffic management in due course. They'll be running passive right now. The statistics they publish when trying to make the case for their meagre data caps can only come from deep-dive data gathering and analysis.

In terms of Three, this has been a bit of a bump in the road for all of us, both the affected and the non-affected who are now nervous as hell that they'll be hit by TrafficSense. I am convinced that it is nothing more than a design/planning/implementation error. And in that case it is something that is going to be near-trivial for Three to remedy. What it does require, however, is a bit of time for all of the usual enterprise politics and processes to kick in and go through.

However, nothing of what I've seen since this all kicked off at the weekend surprises me one little bit.

Me? I'm staying put regardless. If I get hit with TrafficSense I'll try and moderate usage during the period. But it would be really helpful for Three to put out practical information on the parameters that we need to work towards. Also to properly brief their Call Centre who, by anecdotal evidence here and other forums, is giving out incorrect information.

---------- Post added at 12:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 PM ----------

What he said :)
[Networking] newbintraining:
I managed to call them today, got through to a call center which passed me around 5, yes 5, departments. Finally got through to the relevant one, explained and he said it was nothing to worry about I wasn't classes as a high user of bandwidth. I tried to be polite and explain that currently I am not out as much as I am normally so I am not using as much data, but I fear it could hit me at any time due to the vague info on their site. I also pointed out that there was no notice of this going in to effect etc etc.

A manager will be calling me back in the next 48 hours, so we'll see how that goes. I will be very hesitant to give up my phone as I believe they have no right too, but if they are doing it as a goodwill gesture then it may be the only option. At a push I might consider returning it if they gave me back my money, but I'm going to be very pushy about keeping it.

Anyone else had anything from three today?
[Networking] lohtse:
3days I have been waiting so good luck....they are not likely to call you back...
[Networking] newbintraining:
Hmmm, we'll see. They have called back in the past. If they don't then I'll ring them again on Saturday and ask to be put through to someone higher straight away.
[Networking] cirian75:
This is how I would manage the network for peak time

00.00 to 14.59 leave it as is

15.00 to 23.59

Network wide speed for everyone of 3.8mbps (3.5mbps is enough for 720p streaming video)

Anyone breaching 3GB in that time gets reduced to 1/1.5mbps till 23.59

Anyone breaching 3GB 3 times in a week gets 1/1.5mbps reduction for the next 7 days peak time.

Everyone gets the internet, even the abusers get a usable connection.
[Networking] mardon85:
Some success from three on twitter today. I'm still going to leave my contract. I dont like the idea of being stuck in a 24 month contract the way they seem to be treating customers of late. I think this will level out in time but i've had my fingers burnt now. In the future I may try a rolling contract on the ONE plan but we'll see.

We need confirmation of

1) If I do any downloading after 00:01 even if it is large amount will I be hit by traffic sense?

2) If I watch HD streaming content on BBC iplayer and youtube etc at peak times will I be hit by traffic sense?

3) Are they going to implement a warning system to let me know my peak data usage is excessive?

4) Will they be changing the advertising/website wordings to reflect the fact they are now using a fair usage policy where they didn't use to implement one in the past.

Sort these 4 points and they will save face/customers. If not I foresee big problems for three going forward.

BTW i'm off the leash now. Shame I might ask if I can stay with them for 10 more days to see if I get throttled again next Friday. Still going to leave but I can then update the community with my usage to give people some idea.
[Networking] cirian75:
I think I will too, but I'm going to fight to keep my phone as their own T&C says its nothing to do with the contract.

I'm going to seem if I get rapidly slapped by trafficsense again over the weekend first.

---------- Post added at 05:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 PM ----------

Please do some comments here please

http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/31/...one-with-55-unlimited-everything-pl/#comments
[Networking] newbintraining:
Did they give you your original payment for the handset back (assuming that you didn't keep it)?
[Networking] rolydj:
If something goes wrong with your phone, the network's always the first to say it's nothing to do with them as the contract is for airtime. They can't have it both ways!

Keep us updated how you get on :)
[Networking] Classifeeds:
Quick update

Ok, so 3pm came around today and my speed was 140kbps.

Go back 4 days I was due to pay my bill but cancelled the DD to Three because of the throttling.

After numerous calls to them and threats to cancel my contract, Today they cut me off about 4:30pm.

I called Three told them to cancel it once again and got so angry I put the phone down, anyway I decided I needed the phone (after half hour of being cut off) and paid the bill.

2 hours later phone is fully restored. calls, texts and 4-5mbps speeds:eek:

I know it has not been 7 days of throttling yet and my speeds were 4mbps around 2:58pm then 140kbps at 3:04pm.

Not sure what has triggered this (maybe the real threat that they weren't getting paid) but something has worked.

I'm not letting the throttle lie, we should all carry on calling, emailing, all you can nibble on FB and @NotThreeUK on twitter.

For the 'One Plan':D
[Networking] cirian75:
I think the way to really slap Three is to get ASA to slap them for false adverting

http://www.asa.org.uk/Complaints/How-to-complain/Online-Form/Step2.aspx

"TrafficSense TM" is plainly a Fair Use policy masquerading as traffic management.
[Networking] HarrowingLife:
Different SIM, works great :)
[Networking] cirian75:
I'll test a 22.20
[Networking] newbintraining:
I generally only get 0.5 -> 1.5 mbps normally, I've used about 4GB today and the speeds are pretty bad, can't tell if it's just the normal slow speed or I'm being managed.
[Networking] cirian75:
My distance to the three mast

I know its three, I've been and looked

and I get 11 smegging dang kbps :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: