yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Networking] Hands0n:
Yea, what a glaring omission by Samsung to leave DC-HSPA out of the GSM variants of the S3. It pretty much killed it off for me - going into the second half of 2012 there is no way I'd want to commit to a new smartphone that will not exploit this interim technology ahead of LTE (2013/14).

AFAIK only the iPad 3 has DC-HSPA at this time. Bah!
[Networking] HarrowingLife:
I stand corrected Hands0n, where I read it was saying Duel Cell, not Duel Carrier. So in this case, DC-HSPA uses allocation of Three's spectrum that is normally only allocated to older device users (3G, not even HSDPA), etc.

However, if you look at the Speedtest.net image you uploaded, you'll see evidence of TCP Fast Retransmit (Do not mistake this with normal TCP Retransmit, fast Retransmit is at the cell level from my "limited" understanding unlike normal TCP where the end-point server would resend the data) - The huge peak is what I'm referring to and Speedtest.net averages out the overall Speedtest every time I've ran it. (I just tried this out on my phone, took off the arial cover for most of the Speedtest then put it back 3/4th's the way through the test, it immediately went up from 1Mbps to 8Mbps but Speedtest.net came back as saying 5Mbps)

Here's details on Fast-Retransmit

Apparently this is called HARQ on HSPA. Its similar to Interleaving on ADSL

This is actually pretty shocking, considering the first iPhone didn't even have 3G or MMS! I guess they learn't a lesson :)
[Networking] Hands0n:
There was something about the allocation of spectrum that means that, in Three's case, they can only ramp up to DC-HSPA +42, no higher. There is yet to come +84 for the carriers that have sufficient spectrum pairs to work with.

Now as for Speedtest.net itself - yes, you are right about the way in which it is averaging the result. They do a fair bit of manipulation

On their website they say the following:

Now that should show a somewhat optimistic result compared against a full averaging across the entire sample. But I suppose that as long as the measurement is being performed consistently that the result is somewhat objective and empirical.

The thing with HARQ (Interleaving) and all other such error protection techniques is that they have the effect of reducing effective throughput between device and "server". You can see this in ADSL, for example, where cranking up the line speed introduces greater occurrence of errors [that Interleaving corrects] but throughput goes down, paradoxically to the end user who is watching the bit rate indicator on their router. But a reduction in line speed reduces the errors and throughput goes up. Of course, there is a cross-over point where throughput once again falls off. It is all about finding the correct balance.

And so it is with airtime communications, the same applies. But there is a greater deal of automation in speed control and forward error correction to mitigate against retransmission.

But I agree, Speedtest.net results can only be taken indicatively.

And we seem to be ever such a smidgin off topic now :)
[Networking] HarrowingLife:
Lets keep it off-topic from TrafficSense now its been stopped and discuss the future. (At least until TrafficSense comes back in a acceptable form. I'm all for supporting it as long as its not disabling what every person would agree is reasonable use - So 720p HD Streaming, baring in mind even IMDB's official application on my phone streams this quality for Movie Trailers by default)

Anyway,

Every other network has paired up. Any idea/predictions about Three's own future in regards to the lovely Digital Switchover Spectrum? If I was Ofcom I'd tell the other networks they have no right to it now they all have large amounts of suitable spectrum. But in reality it looks more likely that Three will be unable to afford even a small slice of it as the other networks will want it?
[Networking] Hands0n:
Okay then, but only if no one else objects :)

I am truly hoping that Three will be a whole lot more up front and "transparent" about the next round of TrafficSense. But that will be a decision made at some high level within Three that is likely to be somewhat divorced from the Social Media team who take the brunt of public feedback and opinion.

Some of the suggestions on here and elsewhere are very balanced and reasonable - I particularly like the notion of staging the "traffic management" to 3.5Mbps and 1Mbps, the latter for the persistent user. Whether or not TS is actually capable of such precise tuning is unknown. Assumptions cannot be made.

As to predictions of Three's future - always a very unsafe venture to undertake - I do have my own thoughts on it. The parent organisation, HWL, is a massive organisation with very deep pockets. They finance various industries, telecoms being but one. HWL are also very well known and practised in being in it for the long game. And so, to them, the 9 years of Three's existence will be a short period of time. No European banker or venture capitalist would have stayed (anyone recall how quickly Hambros Bank exited out of the Racal Vodafone business? Or is that just me :) ).

So, HWL seem to have a choice to make. Continue to finance Three, even though they are now turning profits, or get out of the business and sell or fold Three.

The latter is unthinkable and extremely unlikely, no one is going to pour seven years of investment down the drain, not when the returns are now coming in.

Sell Three? Who would buy them? This time, in the world's finances, is possibly the worst for acquiring Three on the cusp of LTE auctions in the UK. The acquiring company would need to set aside investment to allow Three to enter and compete in LTE. Otherwise they are buying what? It would be insanity to buy a mobile network operator that is unable to compete with the new duopoly that is forming.

So that leaves HWL with only one option, and that is to continue the investment, fund Three's acquisition of LTE licences and become the third leg of mobile communications in the UK.

As an industry watcher I am afraid of a duopoly forming in the UK. I've lived through one previously, and it wasn't good. Look to the USA and observe that it isn't all that good there either (AT&T vs Verizon). Look elsewhere also and it is evident that lack of competition makes the monopolies and duopolies fat and lazy, where they operate more like a cartel than even our quinopoly (I made that word up) as was ever did!

So do we really want to regress back to the late 1980s? Maybe that isn't possible, the genie is out of the bottle, so maybe even EE and Voda/O2 cannot put it back.
[Networking] jonmorris:
Over the last few weeks, and seeing speeds coming back to normal, I do think that while Three pretended TrafficSense was a trial when it all went so wrong, it was in fact a badly set up system that caused pretty much everyone to be affected, not just the '5%'.

Three must have realised the problem and either switched it off completely, or managed to get it work as designed. Sadly, with so many people affected, the bad publicity came and the damage done. Hence, Three felt like it had to, erm, bend the truth a little to save face. Personally, it would have been better to say that they'd set it up wrong and more people were hit than should have been, but they did what they did and most likely regret it now.

I think that if it is set up as stated in their documentation, it probably will mean that 95% of users won't be affected and might just benefit from capping those that do file share 24/7.

Before the speed related issues, I considered Three far beyond what other networks offer for mobile broadband and looked forward to DC-HSPA to take things to the next level. Since the fuss has died down and I can enjoy speeds faster than my home broadband connection, I'm still happy and continuing to look forward to getting a next generation dongle or MiFi when it comes out.

For use out and about for work, Three's data service is awesome - I usually get far higher speeds than people sharing a Wi-Fi service in an office or at an event, shop, hotel etc.

All the people who ditched Three might think they're happy, but where did they go? Which other network is offering the same package - and the same speeds? Still, if all the people caning the service got annoyed and left, all the better for us!!
[Networking] linuxnubee:
three have not turned trafficsense off

three have not turned trafficsense off and have no plans to so whatever everyone has been told (it was just a trial etc, trafficsense is off and the rest of bs spiel) have all been lied to.

their website documentation is still there after a manager told me they have not updated their website yet it will be removed etc etc and more bs.

here is link

http://support.three.co.uk/SRVS/CGI...t_cat=signal,varset_subcat=3804,Case=obj(4046)
[Networking] swukjay:
Yes I can Confirm this, for a test we ordered a brand new s3 on the one plan which we have no intention of keeping in order to test a theory, after unboxing today at 5 pm we are getting throttle at 0.3 mbps, upload, Bear in mind this is a brand new sim and handset delivered today, So this proves traffic sense is alive and well, will be returning the phone tomorrow.
[Networking] scoopex:
Trafficsense on Three is here to say and was never a trial as claimed by ITK bloggers:laugh: and others on Twitter, was told this direct from the exec office yesterday.
[Networking] cirian75:
one on the lads on the FB page now have a forum set up just for TrafficSense discussion

http://www.threeuser.co.uk/forum/
[Networking] jonmorris:
I went into London today and did a few speed tests on the way in, and in London. The speed varied from very decent to pathetic - which makes me think that problems are localised and not necessarily down to TrafficSense.

Otherwise, why was I getting 9-10Mbits near Holborn, then 0.3Mbps further up the road?

Perhaps Three is simply overloaded in places right now. In effect, users NEED some restrictions to enjoy a semi-decent service!!
[Networking] wollac11:
Try giffgaff

Well if any of you guys want a free a giffgaff sim with £5 free credit let me know ;-) giffgaff has unlimited internet for £10 and has no fair useage limits or speed throttling! :D
[Networking] lohtse:
I will take one!!!!
[Networking] Hands0n:
I know you're punting giffgaff SIMs - as indeed am I :D but ....

giffgaff are being assessed by the ASA, an adjudication is pending and it doesn't look favourable. What caused is is that giffgaff have done their analysis and are clamping down on heavy users or, in their own words, abusers.

A thread on the subject of the ASA on giffgaff's own forum is here --> http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Help-Ask-the-community-got-stuck/Asa/td-p/3616027/page/21
[Networking] Hands0n:
Here's my link for a giffgaff SIM :D If we're allowed to do such things on XDA.

I use giffgaff occasionally, its okay, the speeds are said to be lower than O2 (managed down). I don't use enough to cause any issues for myself :) Nor do I "abuse" their service so giffgaff don't shoot me :D
[Networking] Ex-Inferis:
YouTube throttling also?

Hi all,

I've been a member here for a while, but post infrequently. However, I have been following this thread with some interest since it started.

I recently moved home and, long story short, PlusNet mucked up my BB transfer, so I'm without a landline, ergo, sans Broadband. Since I'm renting short term I didn't want the hassle of paying loads of money for a new contract so, reluctantly, I took out a 3 mobile rolling contract. I've got the £15 package (300 I think it is) with the AYCE internet. I signed up to it with the knowledge that I would be throttled between 3pm and 12am and I was fine with that.

Now, I will be clear here, I do download a fair bit of stuff, mainly American cartoon shows, but I wouldn't consider myself an excessive user; I would say I've downloaded about 25GB of stuff since I signed up at the beginning of June. I don't watch endless YouTube videos and I don't stream iPlayer et al, nor do I use my Mobile Internet for online gaming.

I watched three YouTube videos last night, totaling about 25 minutes. I did watch them in high-def, in this case I believe it's 720p. I watched those at around 1.00 yesterday morning. I've just tried to watch another (at 1.40-ish) tonight and, blow me down, it will not connect! I've tried several times and all I get are connection errors. But other websites will load without problems! I tried a couple of Pixel Dan's toy reviews and some random thing, none of which work.

Further, I've been keeping my downloading from 12am to 3pm, to avoid the throttle. However, over the last few nights I've noticed that around 2am my signal drops to nothing and a little "R" pops up where a little "H" or "G" should be. I cannot understand why this is happening specifically at this time of night. Once I'm "roaming" I loose all internet connectivity. My device (original Galaxy Tab 7) says I'm outside my home network. Erm, at 2am? In my bedroom? I think not! This seems highly coincidental to me, like 3 are preempting my download and stopping me by effectively cutting my service.

Does this sound iffy to any of you? I don't think I'm abusing the AYCE part of what I signed up for, especially since I keep any downloads till the specified times.

Trouble is I'm pretty much stuck with 3 as T-Mobile's signal constantly drops where I am (I have one of their dongles I bought for emergencies), Orange don't give enough data to be effective as a proper BB connection and 02/Vodafone have such a weak signal where I am that I can't even make a phone call! So 3 is the only viable option. :(

Anyone think I should take this up with 3? I am one of their rural customers, so I had hopped I'd get a fairly decent service, but it's getting bad now. Like I say, I don't watch YouTube endlessly, but if I can't even watch the odd 10 minute toy review, it's a poor show!

Sorry for the ramble!

Ex.
[Networking] cirian75:
I think Three are playing hard a loose with their services they are contracted to provide at the moment.

only a matter of time before they get clobbered in the mainstream press ans AYCE is exposed as a lie by OfCom or ASA
[Networking] HarrowingLife:
This sounds more likely to be a mast issue, taking on-board the 2AM Roaming Switch (This in my expierence with Three is the time they schedule upgrades to masts, I've lost Three signal completely between 1AM-3AM in the past, only to have things like HSPA+, and issues fixed when the signal came back) You're lucky to have Orange 2G Roaming in range.

What I can say is you are using the WRONG APN. Orange 2G Roaming would connect for Data if you use three.co.uk but it seems your running software like 3Connect which defaults to 3Internet as the APN.

So, firstly try changing the APN to three.co.uk and then tomorrow contact Three on Twitter with your postcode to see if any issues are known in your area.

As for the video streaming, I'd recommend you try another browser, if videos are failing to stream its more likely to be Adobe Flash related so Google Chrome would be a good thing to try.

Hope this helps, but I can assure you on the network side Three are not blocking video streaming and I've got way higher usage than you (Alot of HD streaming) but also keep my large downloads after 12AM (Each movie I download is about 8GB in 1080p)

American Cartoons? By any chance are you using P2P/Torrents? Or like me do you have a American iTunes account?
[Networking] drachers:
Avoid tethering on the £15 AYCE plan, it's not tethering friendly (although there was a golden era last year when they didn't bother). If you're having issues directly on the tablet, then it's definitely worth troubleshooting whether Three have mis-detected tethering and attempted to throttle.

Like the other person said, it's more likely something mast-related.
[Networking] jonmorris:
I'm starting to think that most problems are mast related or genuine congestion problems (hence Three wanting to implement TrafficSense).

I'm generally getting very good speeds everywhere I go, but there are a few places where I can usually expect amazing speeds (as in 9-15Mbps) and recently I've had them doing 0.3 or so! That's (in my opinion) nothing to do with TrafficSense, but other issues.. it might even be down to the upgrade work to enable DC-HSPA.

I do think the worse of TrafficSense is over as Three U-turned, and hopefully they know full well that if they tried it again they'd be called on it straight away. As such, I think we're back to having Three as the best choice for data in the UK again. I mean, to those who moved - where did you go?
[Networking] drachers:
Hah, I thought of moving, as I wasn't locked into a contract. HOWEVER:

I kept Three on an older phone sellotaped to the window and upgraded my handset contract to TMobile Full Monty. Whichever provider seems most reliable that week, I use. Also makes online gaming a more attractive prospect, as my other half can browse youtube videos of bulldogs chewing tennis balls without messing up my ping.

For the record, both run at 3.6 meg, possibly different phones would be able to connect at different speeds.

Hideously expensive to have two providers but kicks the hell out of satellite, which is the only other option out in my rural backwater.
[Networking] Daveoc64:
3G networks use CDMA, which has a "quirk" where the more people are connected to a specific cell site (a mast), the less distance the signal from that site can travel (the site will adjust its power down to control this). This is Cell Breathing.

It's quite common for people to see their signal strength decrease at night or even disappear entirely due to this phenomenon (more people at home during the evening/night = more devices connecting).

For it to happen at 2AM does sound quite late for that to be kicking in though.

---------- Post added at 04:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:25 AM ----------

According to the Twitter team (and based on experiences I've read), Three stopped offering data services when roaming on the Orange 2G network at the end of 2010
[Networking] cirian75:
got my reply from ASA
[Networking] Murdhie:
I have just ran a speed test and the result is below. This clearly shows excellent speeds. The other image shows my torrent speeds - at exactly the same time - for albums which have thousands of seeds and should be downloading at top speed.

I downloaded the 300mb CheckROM EvoHD™ V2 ROM - from their website - with no problems, while utorrent is at a snails pace.

My question is: are Three only throttling certain connections.

[/ATTACH]
[Networking] cirian75:
Three have admitted TrafficSense is still throttling torrents
[Networking] ahmadcentral:
Every network throttles P2P. Why are you complaining at all? I'm really not sure if you're being serious because if you are, that's a very dumb question tbh.

@Cirian75- You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. On the last page someone complained about being throttled at 2am in the morning. You said it was Three when it is very clearly a mast issue as another user explained. Most of you guys are complaining for nothing here.

FYI, i am against traffic sense throttling heavy users between 3pm and 12am. But some people here are complaining for no reason. And as far as i'm aware there is no need to complain anymore as the main 'trial' has stopped. Lets hope that Three just keep it as it is atm.
[Networking] SimonTS:
The voice of reason rears its head at last. I personally feel that such things as torrents and P2P shouldn't be just throttled, but blocked entirely. 99% of the time it is people downloading pirated material and they just slow the network down for others.
[Networking] cirian75:
mate

if it had been intended to be a just trail

they would have not offered to let people out of their contracts like I was offered.

I actually talked to someone at UK exec office and was offered out before they decided it was a "trial"
[Networking] ahmadcentral:
Clearly if you read my post you'd see that i also put trial in inverted commas. (and no i did not edit the post, if i did i'm a time traveller). So yes, i'm fully aware it wasn't actually a trial, but you seem to have missed my point completely.

What i was trying to get across is that there is no reason to complain now as the trafficsense thingy is not throttling anyone. And all the people complaining at the moment have no reason to as they are doing things against the T&C's, e.g tethering/using in mi-fi/p2p downloads etc... or people just complaining over minor things not related to traffic sense. (Even fixed line broadband companies throttle p2p at peak times, how can you expect a phone network not too)

If TrafficSense comes back in full force i'll be the first to complain as i use the One Plan for tethering sometimes. But at the moment there is no reason to complain about anything related to the title.
[Networking] cirian75:
Asa response is from my complaint of over month ago

Not a new one.
[Networking] VirtualMark:
For someone talking about a voice of reason, you make some pretty stupid statements.

Firstly, bittorrent isn't the only way people pirate stuff. There's a ton of sites streaming illegal content.

Secondly, bittorrent is also used for legal stuff.

And what about the growing traffic from tv on demand services? That's a major drain on the network. Especially as a lot of people on this thread seem to think that streaming a 720p video over a mobile network is an acceptable level of service.

Lastly, why is totally cutting p2p off the 'best' solution? Surely, a more intelligent way of managing a network would be based on the amount of traffic at the time and the capacity of the mast.

Perhaps you can explain to me why Three should cut off users who are downloading while you're asleep?
[Networking] cirian75:
EA and Blizzard and I think Steam, not sure on Steam, use bittorrent tech to roll out games and game updates.
[Networking] SimonTS:
I agree - and I, personally, have no problem at all with the networks carrying out packet analysis and QoS shaping, but they can't afford to do that so they just pull the plug on P2P / Torrent instead.

I am well aware of that but it is, realistically, probably only about the 1% that I quoted in my original post. Unfortunately in this world the few suffer for the actions of the many (contrary to the normal maxim)

Yet again - they feel that is acceptable because we live in a society where people are constantly told by the media that they have a right to whatever they want, and that is why they ***** and moan when they don't get it. For people to just expect that because they are on an 'unlimited' contract they can download 5Gig a day is ridiculous. If everybody tried to do that then the entire Internet would collapse, let alone the mobile phone network. I use my phone for 'normal' things - calls & texts, web-browsing, news updates and the occasional streaming of music so why should my data be throttled just because they pull the entire mast back to cope?

A more intelligent way would be to manage the traffic based on the amount of data an individual has used. If somebody has used 50Gig they should be far more strictly throttled back than somebody who has only used 5Gig. This just involves far more cost and effort by the network provider.

Who are you to judge when I may or may not be asleep? If I am awake at 3 am and want to do a bit of web-browsing, why should I suffer because a few greedy people want to connect their phones to their laptops and download the latest movies?