yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
I think with all the platform announcements and new product intros going on through summer, geared for fall release, now isn't a good time to buy a tablet (cf. A510 owners): Google's Jelly and its Nexus tab (or tabs). MS and rumor of its own tablet. Apple's mini iPad rumor. Et al.

That--best time to buy new toys is in the fall--is true every year. But this year is different than most, since it's the watershed moment when all major players show their new wares in a new emergent computing platform.

Exciting time to be a geek, but also dangerous for the many white elephants that abound. Toys will get old really fast, and there'll be lots of orphans. True early adopters know this already, but I see a few folks in the Infinity thread expressing a wish for their new squeeze to "last a few years." The optimism of euphoria.

An interesting thing I noticed is that iPad's HD res gets the most attention as a paper spec, but come actual face time, its better color rendition (via added color filters) is the more noticed. High res doesn't equate to high quality, eg iPod Touch's Retina display vs iPhone's.

It's reasonable to want a better display in a tablet. Like you said, a tab is mostly display. It depends on how much one is worth to you, as the rumored Nexus tab at $200 should be pretty close to Excite 7.7 in specs, AMOLED display aside. Other than HW specs, the Nexus will also have Goog's official support, in addition to the huge community support. OTOH, Toshiba's Android support has been probably the worst of all vendors, incl Acer's. The Excite will probably be stuck with the ICS it comes with.

That's my fetish: OS support. Either good official support, or with dependable custom ROMs, that will extend the device's life past a couple of cycles. Community support is typically highest for cheap-but-good toys: Nook Color two years ago, TouchPad & Kindle Fire last year. My rule-of-thumb: Support from either Google or CM, or a CM derivative. As long as the HW passes a certain threshold of functionality--OMAP4 or better--I don't care about the HW that much.

I'm bullish on Android's prospects over the long term, as long as Google is committed to improving it. It's the Linux for mobile. Looking forward to seeing the Goog tab and Jelly Belly in a couple of weeks.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
Yay! More tablet rumors! From your reliable dependable and all-around trustworthy news source, DigiTimes! :)

Kindle Fire to drop to $149! New Fire at $199 w/ 1280x800 res in Q3! 10.1" in Q4!

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20120615PD206.html
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
First, you won't hear me discounting the iPad's excellent color and contrast, in addition to the pixel density. I've mentioned elsewhere that it's not just the excellent text that makes the iPad's screen stand out. That's why I can't wait to see the Excite's AMOLED screen.

Second, I can't imagine the Nexus hitting a $200 price point without some serious compromises in components. I imagine the screen will one of the biggest--I fully expect reviewers to comment on dull colors, poor contrast, and low brightness. I'm not saying it'll be a bad device, but I also don't think something like an excellent AMOLED screen can be so easily discounted.

As far as support goes, I'm not familiar with how well Toshiba has handled upgrades. But my wife's Galaxy Tab 10.1 received one update soon after she got it, and nothing since. Surely nobody is worse that Samsung. I think ASUS has set a bar in this respect that nobody else has come close to.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] nyijedi:
Sure, they've set the bar with frequent updates. They've also set the bar with poorly designed hardware and lackluster software that they can't get working properly after countless updates.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
Let me add that my wife's Galaxy Tab is also chock full of problems, and so at least ASUS is trying to fix things with updates. Samsung seems to have forgotten all about the Galaxy Tab's very existence.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
>I can't imagine the Nexus hitting a $200 price point without some serious compromises in components.

I expect it to be similar in quality to the Kindle Fire, which is to say, "good enough" for many people.

Since the Fire will have been out for 7 months, I expect some improvements--a value Teg3 (probably 1.2GHz), 1GB RAM, and probably a 1280x800 res. Kindle had an IPS screen, although reviewers rated it worse than the Nook (Fire had higher reflectivity due to the air gap between LCD and glass.) BTW, Nook Tab also dropped to $199 after going down to 512MB/8GB config. It has an excellent screen.

>I imagine the screen will one of the biggest--I fully expect reviewers to comment on dull colors, poor contrast, and low brightness.

Let's wait and see.

I don't mean to say the Excite is a bad buy at $500. Money is relative. If you like the product, and you can afford it, then that's what counts. It sounds like the display is your highest want, then you should opt for the best display. I'm saying that there are other factors, which may or may not be as important as the display.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
Don't disagree with you on any point, except don't forget that the Kindle and Nook are missing a few components that add to the cost, such as GPS and cameras. And, it's an open question if Google will "subsidize" the Nexus by taking it on the chin for awhile in lower margins. We know that Amazon and B&N aren't making tons on the hardware.

I'm hoping the Nexus kicks ass and takes names, so we'll start getting more tablet optimized apps. I couldn't care less who breaks things open, as long as SOMEONE does.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
>the Kindle and Nook are missing a few components that add to the cost, such as GPS and cameras

Kindle & Nook were intended as e-readers, and re-purposed to run full Android. Goog tab will be a full tablet, albeit a low-cost one.

Safe to say that a Google tablet will have GPS for its location-based advertising function. IIRC the Asus ME370T prototype shown at CES had a front cam, but no rear. I expect BT. I don't expect NFC.

>it's an open question if Google will "subsidize" the Nexus by taking it on the chin for awhile in lower margins. We know that Amazon and B&N aren't making tons on the hardware.

Google needs two things: a bootstrap to jump-start the moribund Android tablet market, and some sort of a "reference tablet" to assert some standardization over a fragmented platform. That's what I expect the Goog tablet to achieve, not to make money.

I don't think Nexus tab will sell at a loss at $199. Acer A110 (Kai SoC) will sell for that price. What usually gets shortchanged is battery capacity. Low-end tabs inevitably have small batteries. OTOH a major bullet point for Kai was reduced power consumption. I'm guessing 6hrs. We'll see.

>I'm hoping the Nexus kicks ass and takes names, so we'll start getting more tablet optimized apps.

A $200 "full" Android tab should be a popular stocking stuffer. Only geeks had fun with Nook & Fire since those need custom ROMs. Goog tab should be fun for regular people as well.

Assuming good sales of the 7", and follow-up with a 10" at $250-300, we should see more dev interest come next year. Hardware sales need to happen first.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
Goog tab should have specs similar to the Iconia A110, so I took another look at the latter (specs below). It's reported to have the Kai package, of which the SoC is shown here as a 1.2GHz Teg3. A210 also have same SoC.

Per TheVerge, one of the lower-cost components mentioned is DDR3L memory instead of DDR2. TF300T also has DDR3L and 1.2GHz Teg3, so presumably it may be the first recipient of the Kai package.

Note the battery capacity, which is lower than the Nook Color/Tablet's 4 Ahr and Kindle Fire's 4.4 Ahr. Let's hope Goog/Asus won't skimp on this.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
Kai isn't SoC. Kai is a platform for OEMs to simply follow...

The 1.2ghz Teg 3 is most likely similar to Tegra 3 found in TF300 (T30L I believe or could even be one of the low AP version for phones).

I wonder which display panel they plan on using... this probably knocked off the price considerably with WSVGA resolution.

And yup, they really knocked off the battery & 8gig flash memory (similar to Kindle Fire)...

Kinda surprised by the inclusion of microSD & micro USB...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
>I wonder which display panel they plan on using...

For me, 1280x800 is needed, as 1024x600 is too "narrow" for portrait use. Reading PDFs in portrait was a poor experience with the Nook. The 370T had 1280x800 IPS, and I hope it made the cut.

There was a blurb about a "Google Asus Nexus 7" device being benchmarked (here). It had 1280x768 res, Android 4.1 JRN51B or Jelly Bean, and a 1.3GHz Teg3. The 370T passed FCC testing two weeks ago. If Nexus tab is different, it also would have to go through FCC. I'm optimistic that both are the same.

Here's Asus' CES video of the MeMo 370T. Interestingly, it has a rear cam, but no front cam. Recall the "Tegra-class" comment that had some folks (me) wondering. Now we know what he meant.

[YOUTUBE]m_elfpxcbjY[/YOUTUBE]
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
Hmm, that's odd... thought MeMo 370T was scrapped for Google Nexus tablet. Or they could simply be releasing it as MeMo 370T name still... I guess...

Either way, I think Transformer Pad 300 might be better indication as to what the final hardware will be for Google tablet.

Pad 300 16gig is only $350 in retail stores...

7in. instead of 10 in. & smaller battery should knock off close to $100...

Decrease Flash storage & few other minor component ... and that's another $50...

Can even consider Pad 300 as Kai platform for 10 in. variant already.... That means we could see similar display panel as Pad 300 for Google 7in. tablet.

Edit: Btw.. I don't know if you have noticed but Tegra 3 tablets (those that are released) are already being sold at discount price by multiple vendors.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
Yet more leaks of the "Asus Nexus 7", this one indicating a rear cam with aperture similar to that in TF300 and TF201. If true, what's shown at CES would be same as the final product.

http://www.androidauthority.com/asus-nexus-7-tablet-exif-image-picasa-95657/

This and the "benchmark" leak smell like official leaks, to build buzz for the upcoming announcement (the pic first showed up on Google+). Normal leaks usually involve pics taken with a BlurryCam, or some sort of visual reveal, rather than a specs reveal.

Speaking of leaks, here's one of a purported MS 7" XBox tablet, some hours before MS' "secret" announcement.

http://www.shifted2u.com/shifted/in...ent&view=article&id=1950:xbox-surface-details

Beefy specs: two IBM Power7 w/ 6 cores each, custom GPU by AMD, 5GB RAM, 4 USB 3.0 ports, HDMI/component, S/PDIF, Ethernet, 250GB SCSI HDD. All in a 7" tablet??

Edit: Oops, I missed the "Stationary Computing Device" part. OK, sounds more reasonable now.

>I think Transformer Pad 300 might be better indication as to what the final hardware will be for Google tablet.

I think TF300 is overpriced for a Kai device, especially if you count its "optional" dock. Extrapolating from $200 7", a 10" would be $300 for the larger display, battery, and case. That's SRP; street price should be less. Anything north of $300 is iPad territory (in the consumer's mind), and not where these value tabs want to be.

It depends on market positioning. TF300 will be the only budget Android hybrid available, so there'll be a small audience for that. But Android still isn't big on productivity (why you'd want the keyboard), and price will be the main driver this year. For value 10", I see Acer A210 as the bellwether; SRP will either be $300 or $350, but street will be $300-and-under.

Specs of A210:

(battery uses 7.4V instead of 3.7V in A110/510/700, so compare by Whr instead)

Worth comparing A210 to A510. No major difference other than battery size.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
Well, that and the Tegra 3 difference. One uses .. if I were to guess.. T30L & the other.. T30 like Transformer Prime.

So, between TF300 (without the dock) and A210... you can see value "kai" platform for 10 in. variant in the future.

I also have to question the major difference between T30L & T30 .... T30L seems to be the value "Kai" SoC... while T30 is supposedly premium. Excluding the 100mhz difference in top speed (both can be overclocked easily)... what makes T30L the value SoC of choosing for "Kai"??

Btw, if both are using the same display panel (i'm going to guess IPS)... & price is cut to meet $300.. & $200 range for 7 in. Nexus... it makes me wonder as Transformer Prime owner... Asus simply overcharged the heck out for IPS+... as IPS+ is nothing but PR marketing to increase brightness (and sacrifice battery life).

Either way, hope Nexus 7 & other Tegra 3 variant tablets are reliable & stable enough for Nvidia... because, atm... they are behaving rather poorly.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
>Well, that and the Tegra 3 difference.

T30 vs T30L isn't a major difference. No one in TF300 forum complained that it ran slower than Prime in normal use.

>So, between TF300 (without the dock) and A210... you can see value "kai" platform for 10 in. variant in the future.

TF line's premise is its hybrid versatility, hence its name. I only consider TF300 with the dock.

There will be 10" value tabs (A210 is one). A 7", while more portable, has limited functionality compared to a 10". Watching videos or web browsing on a 7" is a poor experience compared to a 10".

There are already value 10" ICS tabs from no-names, selling for well under $200. eMatics tabs are selling in Walmart, and other than the smallish battery, specs look "good enough." I think most of these have the Boxchip Allwinner A10, and the few benchmarks I've seen show decent performance. One thing they need is Google Play access. In the interest of driving Android adoption, Google should allow these no-names to get onto Play.

http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?search_query=ematic+4.0

>Excluding the 100mhz difference in top speed...what makes T30L the value SoC of choosing for "Kai"?

Market positioning. Price is never proportional to performance, because consumer buying isn't about math, but about psychology. The "value" Teg3 needs to be fast enough to have viable performance, so you take a regular Teg3, lop a bit off the speed, and sell it as a value part. To buyers, it's a choice between "slow" and "fast," not "how slow" vs "how fast."

>it makes me wonder as Transformer Prime owner... Asus simply overcharged the heck out for IPS+...

Prime wasn't overpriced, because you were willing to pay for it at the time. What you're referring to is buyer's remorse, which happens when the euphoria and novelty have worn off, and problems arise. Which is why it's good if one can dispense with those BEFORE buying, as opposed to after.

>hope Nexus 7 & other Tegra 3 variant tablets are reliable & stable enough for Nvidia... because, atm... they are behaving rather poorly.

While Teg3 may or may not be problematic, Prime isn't a good representative to judge it by. Upgrading an OS for "live" devices is always fraught with issues. Secondly, ICS is still in the shaking-out period.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
True, Prime isn't a good representative...

but.. stories like... this...

http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/0...-wi-fi-problem-has-fixed-issue-in-production/

and few other inquiry regarding Tegra 3 device.. indicate..

Tegra 3 is seriously behaving poorly overall. All devices using Tegra 3 from different OEM have & face similar problems to Transformer Prime (just not as wide...). Major performance difference between HTC One X (Tegra 3) & HTC One X from AT&T (S4 dual-core) is probably better indication of just how poorly Tegra 3 is behaving as both use same h/w excluding the SoC & same s/w from same vendor.

Edit: Btw, I also have to question Google choosing Asus as Nexus 7 partner. Asus doesn't have the prowess or history to successfully launch a product.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
Well, remember that I said the screen would be one of the cost-cutting measures, so don't be surprised if it's 1024X600 (same as the Samsung 2 7" at $249). We'll see pretty soon, of course...

That said, I managed to get my hands on a review unit of the Excite 7.7, which runs 1280X800 at 7.7" (natch), and I'll say: ICS definitely recognizes that it's a 7.7" tablet and scales the UI "appropriately." That is to say, many apps run in a sort of quasi-tablet mode, i.e., not quite as a phone, not quite as a tablet. Everything isn't smaller but at the same ratio as on a 10.1" tablet, rather it's all larger and doesn't show the full tablet interface.

With 196PPI, it's all nice and crisp, including text--not quite so sharp as the new iPad, but much better than any other Android tablet I've seen. But, there are some compromises relative to a larger tablet. I'm going to be using it extensively and will have to see how I feel about it. The roughly 7" form factor is nice for portability and things like ebook reading, but it's not quite the expansive tablet experience as on a 10.1" tablet.

This sure is an interesting time...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
>This sure is an interesting time...

Definitely. The announced MS tablet(s) looks very good. Too soon to peg it as iPad-killer? Depends on price, of course. I'm guessing around $1K.

I'm happy for Microsoft, that it finally showed some life. Its stock has been in the cellar for ages.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
http://www.slashgear.com/microsoft-surface-pricing-and-release-details-dropped-18234504/

According to that article.. it'll be near "ultrabook" pricing. Not sure if that is for Windows RT or Windows Pro version...

either way, I think it'll range between $600 to $1k for both version.

We're also looking at a release/launch in 3 month.....

I'm actually disappointed by the lack of Clovertrail/Trinity tablet.... Not sure how comfortable I will be with i5 & "perimeter venting".

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRU4QhedkD0&feature=player_embedded

Decent demo of Windows RT.... wish they showed some clips of browsing and etc...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
Re: MS Surface announcement - I was actually giddy for a couple of minutes, before my bah-humbug nature reasserts itself and I start looking for the warts. I miss being a kid.

The hardware specs are impressive, mostly. Pro has 42Whr batt; I guesstimate its batt life to be around 6 hrs. (I base this on Asus' UX21A with same CPU, which has 35Whr batt and 4+hr rated use. The MS Pro uses convection cooling rather than active cooling, so it should get better mileage.) It's heavy at 2lbs, so it's not as mobile as a typical tablet.

OTOH, it's got the keyboard (Touch or Type) cover, which is similar to the Logitech Ultrathin keyboard cover for iPad. This one has more stuff, with trackpad, acceler-wazzit and palm rejection.

Conceptually, the cover keyboard is a better idea than the laptop hybrid form, because it's lighter and more mobile. That's the whole point of a tablet--more mobility. While not an original idea, the feature does signal an actual paradigm shift. No longer do you have to lug around a "hybrid" just to have a keyboard. Kudos to MS for a real innovation.

Yes, I think this will obsolete TF line and other hybrids.

Now comes the caveats. First, the Pro's availability is cited at "3 months after Win8 launch," so it won't be around until next year. So forget about it for this year. Second, the RT's main problem hasn't changed: Aside from the bundled Office, web browsing, and the handful of launch Metro apps, you can't do much with it. Again, you need to wait until next year for more apps to show up.

The other thing I wondered about is how this affects MS' relationship with its HW vendors. I can't imagine them being overjoyed at being upstaged like this. Perhaps the delayed launch for the (x86) Surface Pro was an olive branch for the vendors, since then they can still sell their x86 wares for this Xmas season, and have time to retool for next year's wares.

The Surface RT will be sold this Xmas, but there were few vendors showing their RT tablets anyway, so no huge investment wasted.

MS will need to figure out how to handle its HW partners going forward, but for consumers, it's a huge win. HW vendors now will have to up their game and offer better choices than the MS products, or at lower prices. I was underwhelmed with the wares shown at this year's Computex.

To sum: I think today's announcement is a big step forward for the Windows market and its users, not so much for the products themselves, but for what they herald.

To Win users: Don't buy new Win8 toys this year! Wait for next year! You want that keyboard cover!

>I'm actually disappointed by the lack of Clovertrail/Trinity tablet

I think a deliberate choice was made to stay with the high-end for the Surface line, again, perhaps as a concession to HW vendors. Not to worry. I expect the magnetic keyboard cover to migrate to Clovertrail tabs, just not from MS, and probably not this year.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] opentoe:
I don't see it forsale anywhere. Did I miss the advertisements or marketing for this? I'm confused.

Only one full week left in June.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
I don't see why more people aren't drawing the obvious analogy here: the first thing I thought was that Microsoft is just replicating Google's Nexus program. And I don't think Surface will kill Microsoft's OEMs any more than Nexus kills Android OEMs. Yes, there's less product differentiation with Windows 8/RT, but is Microsoft locking down the OS to customization like they are on Windows Phone?

And, I don't see Microsoft's cover/keyboard thingie as being better than the ASUS keyboard dock approach, any more than Bluetooth keyboards are with Android tablets. The dock is sturdier, easier to use in a lap, and adds battery life. All the same advantages apply. And of course everyone has stolen the ASUS concept to a ridiculous degree--everyone except Microsoft. Think that's a coincidence? I don't...