yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
I don't know that Apple so much benefits from being THIS locked down, but rather they get away with it because they're so dominant. Yes, the overall simplicity of iOS is generally a strength for the average, non-technical user, but iOS is really more confusing than it is ironclad when it comes to apps sharing info.

In Android, I do have a pretty long list of apps that I can send info to (say, a Web URL), but I don't find that terribly confusing. I don't think even a casual user needs to find it confusing, either, unless they're just THAT lazy. If you install an app, then you should know what it does and seeing it in a list of apps to share something with shouldn't be confounding.

Perhaps it's more of a security thing. Whatever. All I know is it's one of the things that limits iOS for any kind of advanced user, and I appreciate Android's approach.

---------- Post added at 04:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:18 PM ----------

As e.mote said, this thread broke down some time ago from its original purpose. I think it's valuable, though, to discuss what Google and Android tablet makers need to do to make the platform more successful. I think we'd all like to see that, no? And whether we like it or not (and I personally don't), Apple is just whomping some serious Android butt with the iPad. That's the elephant in the room, and we really can't avoid talking about it if we're speculating on how Android tablets might become more successful.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
>I don't know that Apple so much benefits from being THIS locked down, but rather they get away with it because they're so dominant.

I think we'll see a different Apple in the days ahead, simply for the fact that Jobs is no longer at the helm. Yes, all the credit to him for Apple's resurgence. Cook may not be as visionary, but my first-blush impression is that he's more pragmatic and less heavy-handed. For starter, the rumored 7" iPad is more likely to become reality. Another is that negotiations with content providers may be less contentious enough to get AppleTV on the road.

As for iPad, you don't mess with a good thing, and iOS was good for iPhone. Mobile computing will inevitably gain new functionality as it matures. I think Apple will stick with its "simple is best" formula until it is pushed by the competition. So while Apple is leading for now, my opinion is that Windows (and maybe Android) will be the tech leader, although perhaps not sales leader, in the 2-3 year frame.

Being successful is something of a curse, since you have to protect your cash cow. That means you aren't as free to try new things as an underdog, who has nothing to lose. It happened to Microsoft; Apple is no different.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
1. Thank you for correcting me. Used the wrong word. However, I still remain pessimistic towards Android until proven otherwise. Android has terrible track record.....

2. How is rapid iteration a good thing for the developing platform? Another question I must ask is, when will Android lose the "developing" platform label? Android has been out for 5+ years. Compared to PC, it certainly is an infant but if we were to compare to iOS & other mobile OS... it's actually an elder statesmen in the game. I only see this "developing" platform argument as an excuse....

Android is a jack of many trades, but it doesn't excel in any aspect. Also, it is full of many bugs & constant change..... It lacks stability. How can a platform really develop without the time to grow & be refined??

3. Device or the hardware isn't outdated. However, in terms of software/OS.. it is outdated. While I do not wish to go into fragmentation discussion... We can't overlook the fact that GOOGLE simply drops all support once new iteration of OS is launched. Each iteration is looking at 6 to 8 month tops in actual s/w support.

4. I disagree. I think 2 yr cycle will work well with Win 8. The integration between Desktop & Metro mode is an issue & revision (most likely to be seen in Win 9 or whatever) required for x86/PC... ARM versions won't even take advantage of x86/legacy s/w.. so I don't see this being a major issue with WinRT.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
>How is rapid iteration a good thing for the developing platform?

In an emerging market, conditions are fluid, and a rapid cycle allows more flexibility to adapt to changing conditions. Improvements have shorter time-to-market.

Two-year is an eternity for a developing market. The iPad came out only two years ago, and it is already an established leader, with impending signs of entrenchment in many markets. If Windows stuck to its usual 2- or 3-yr release rate, then it's toast. This is not the staid x86 market where each year you get a slightly faster CPU and maybe a slightly more bloated OS.

>when will Android lose the "developing" platform label? Android has been out for 5+ years.

Not on tablets.

>Device or the hardware isn't outdated. However, in terms of software/OS.. it is outdated.

As said, only geeks think that way. Regular people think in terms of functionality. Your old device still works the same way, with the same level of support. If you want the extra goodies of the new OS, then it's on you to get a new toy. There is no obligation on the vendor: it's not in the contract. Whatever update you get is a goodwill gesture, which is a perk and not a right.

>ARM versions won't even take advantage of x86/legacy s/w.. so I don't see this being a major issue with WinRT

WinRT will have desktop mode. The bundled Office 15 will be a bellwether on the present level of integration.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
1. Again, I have to disagree. To use iPad as an example & how it has evolved from 1st generation... iOS has relatively stayed the same but added tweaks & improvements in performance to go along with the emerging hardware. OS is being integrated to take advantage of the hardware. In Android's case, hardware is playing catch up to unstable, and so far.. unreliable, and constant change of the OS to make Android tolerable to use.

2. Device works the same, but I disagree on same lvl of support aspect. If Google simply drops all support once next iteration is launched, how is non-existent support as the same? In terms of App support.. yes, it can relatively be the same (except, the person will be left behind on next iteration of apps... clear example being Google Chrome browser for ICS) but when it comes to "functionality" & bug issues with the OS itself, the avg. user is left wondering....

I agree, there's no obligation on the vendor for updates... but again, this basically directs the user to purchase new device or go the custom ROM route. With the rapid iteration of Android, it simply favors the hardcore. Again, 6 to 8 month iteration is just too short for $300 to $400 device.

3. WinRT will have desktop mode. The bundled Office 15 on WinRT will be on Metro. I can see MS taking the iOS approach & simply update/tweak the OS to improve the performance of Metro for WinRT.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] opentoe:
Gary, please answer this question. I was surprised to see you shot down my source right away, but really we are more interested in the quality of the product. Also, if you cannot answer please ask someone at your company. Quote them if you like. We all deserve it.

Thanks.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] arby80:
I agree it does not make any sense for Asus to release the T700 in quarter 2. When all of the problems with Prime have not been addressed yet and the end of quarter 2 just around the quarter. For one this sets an expectation that will likely not be met. Asus should learn to give realistic expectations and then if they can beat those then more power to them. It would make perfect sense for Asus to say that they would release the T700 in quarter 4 and then if they can beat it great.

Trying to put the 700 out in quarter 2 all but guarantees supply issues and most likely quality issues. I had renewed hope that Asus would do excess quality control on the T700 before it was released as it seems that they did not do any testing on the prime before it was released and just wanted to be the first out the door. Which is fine but now they have to step it up.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
1. Hmm, you make an argument that normal people do not think the way I have pointed. Which is true, but I'm making a case where the company is directing such individuals who do wish... must either go to custom ROM & new device purchase. Also, you also ignore the fact that AVG. User expects ... or think that a $300 - $400 will be provided with s/w support to justify their purchase with security patches, bug fixes, and etc (that last over 6 - 8 month). However, the avg. user does not receive such when new iteration drops as Google just drops all support for previous iteration.

Security patches, bug fixes, and etc are all part of functionality. The fact that is an OPEN SOURCE OS & due to the complete drop of support from Google once next iteration drops... it directs the avg. user to either do research on custom ROMS (where the support is continued on various issues) or purchase new device. Even the avg. user or people have to make a choice.

And yes, it is up to the vendors to provide such support.. however, vendors are reliant on Google to provide such support to begin with.

2. The link, and the Tech preview is actually for x86/x64 version. And yes, Office 15 will be in desktop mode with a Metro veneer (MS is pushing Metro fervently....)

However, ARM version will receive its own "APPS" of its own that is built in completely on Metro.

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscent..._8_for_arm_will_come_with_office_15_apps.html

quote: "Thankfully, Sinofsky states unequivocally that WOA will include “Office 15” version of Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote. He explains, “The new Office applications for WOA have been significantly architected for both touch and minimized power/resource consumption.”

He then goes on to say, “This engineering work is an important part of being able to provide Office software with WOA, as these are not simply recompilations or ports, but significant reworking of the products with a complete and consistent user experience and fidelity with their new x86/64 counterparts,” which implies that they are separate distinct, separate versions from the x86/64 versions."
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] cameronsutor:
It actually does make sense. If Asus released a tablet with known WiFi and GPS issues (if only to have the first Tegra 3 quad-core tablet), then it would make sense that they would continue to make, and distribute a limited number of units, so they could avoid having to publicly admit they made a mistake. I say distribute, because maybe they actually did stop making it and are just slowly releasing the reserve stock (hence the low inventory everywhere), but once that's gone, it's gone (unless they make small adjustments to the design). You argue that the TF201 is, in fact, difficult for some, but easy for "others" to get ... What others are you referring to? The "others" on the island of Lost? I haven't read anything to support the latter comment, but I have read numerous articles in support of the first one.

If you need evidence that something is not right with the production and distribution of the Prime due to issues determined pre-launch, the how do you explain the abundance of TF300's, but lack of Primes? Don't say it has to do with manufacturing difficulties, because it's almost 6 months after it was released. And don't say it's because "people are buying them all up," because we know that's not true either.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
My argument elsewhere re Infinity can as well be applied to Prime's production: It's not a matter of making profit on the product itself, but more a matter of enhancing the Asus brand as a premier manufacturer of mobile products.

What we know:

. Prime's main issue--weak wireless--was known to Asus before its release. Asus had the Infinity as a fully working prototype (with plastic RF window, which presumably fixed Prime's problem) at CES 2012 on Jan 10.

. Prime has had limited availability--ergo, production--for most of its shelf life. Given that margin is predicated on economy of scale, limited production usually means a product that makes little or no profit. This, excluding the presumably higher-than-average rate of returns, and the action taken for the class-action suit redress (viz GPS dongle). Prime is not a money-maker for Asus.

. Prime has garnered great publicity for Asus as the flagship Android tablet for 6 months running. It has great looks, is quad-core, and with integrated keyboard dock. Despite complaints on this forum, Prime has had universally positive reviews from all major gadget blogs. Even now, with no other high-end Android tablet released, Prime is still considered the best Android tablet available. The positive exposure for the Asus brand is invaluable, and one that can't be bought by advertising alone.

From these, we can conclude:

. Prime is a showcase high-end product that, while not a direct money-maker, was geared to boost the Asus brand in public awareness. Given the universally positive PR exposure, and its long 6-month-and-counting duration, the effort has to be called an unequivocal success.

. Prime's issues weren't fixed because it was never intended to make money, and user satisfaction isn't a major concern given the small number of buyers (remember, limited production). The main consideration would be Prime's positive PR value for the Asus brand, which wasn't impacted.

We can further extrapolate:

. Given the Prime's success as a brand-building exercise, Asus will continue this effort with other products. Both the Infinity and the PadFone will be limited-production products that ostensibly will build cachet for the Asus brand, and one that will likely continue into Windows 8 products.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
great viewpoint....i agree
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] cameronsutor:
I wouldn't necessarily agree that they "improved" their brand, in fact, in my opinion, they harmed their image. They released a product with known issues. Of course, I may only speak for myself when I say that Asus has put out a product that makes me question their ethics as a company. Now, I may get bashed for that, but as I said, that is my opinion.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
>I may only speak for myself

That's the gist. Whatever complaints surfaced only impacted (some of) the users here, which is a tiny number overall. It has no effect on Prime's public perception.

Consider the average user looking for an alternative to the iPad. He would probably go online and search on:

http://google.com/search?q=best+android+tablet

Then, seeing Prime as the "best" available, he would continue with:

http://google.com/search?q=asus+transformer+prime+review

All reviews are universally positive. XDA is not in the search rankings.

Now, if he were to do due diligence--which would comprise only a small minority--he would search for this:

http://google.com/search?q=asus+transformer+prime+problems

XDA is on the 2nd page of rankings, which few people ever get to. A few of a few = a tiny number.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
e.mote, I hope you're right, and that ASUS spends some money on the TF700 screen. If it's going to essentially be a loss leader for the brand, they might as well make sure the screen is spectacular. I know it's not a popular opinion here, but I have to say: the new iPad's screen is just incredible. Apple is either giving up some serious gross margin to pay for it, or they leveraged their supply chain strength to the hilt to get the thing for a good price. Displaymate is entirely correct here: http://www.displaymate.com/iPad_ShootOut_1.htm

I want Android tablets to succeed: I simply don't like iOS, and it's even worse on a tablet. But there's not an Android tablet on the market that I would buy today instead of the iPad--the screen is just that good. I'm really, really hoping that the TF700 has a really, really excellent screen so that I can give up the iPad. Oh, and seeing developers finally making good tablet-optimized apps would be a plus, but that's a different discussion.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
your article seems to think that kind of high Res. display is not needed. and aside from computer graphics, most can't tell the difference from a high Res. photo/video vs. a low Res.one.

quote from your article:

" Marketing considerations aside, do you really need all of that “Retina Display” resolution and sharpness? In many cases no, for these five reasons: 1. Most adults don’t actually have true corrected 20/20 Vision even with glasses or contact lenses. 2. If you view the display further away than the recommended viewing distance your eye can no longer fully resolve the sharpness of the display, so that high resolution is wasted. 3. Unlike computer graphics images, photographic images (including videos) are inherently fuzzy, with the sharpest image detail spread over multiple pixels. Similarly, you would be hard pressed to visually tell the difference between 640x480 and 2048x1536 photographic images of a (Granny Smith) Apple. 4. Sub-pixel rendering, rather than ordinary pixel rendering, will significantly improve the visual sharpness of any display, especially for computer generated text and graphics, so that is the most efficient approach to improving sharpness. 5. Most people don’t even have 1600x1200 resolution on the much larger 15-19 inch screens on their (Apple or Windows) laptops and desktop monitors and are happy with them (even the tech journalists that I asked)."

while display is good. it wasn't needed. apple went that route for scaling purposes of apps only, really. Most humans vision isn't that good to tell difference from, for example, Prime Resolution/Display(which is great to me by the way) and new Ipad resolution/display. I think it may be good for people with poor vision or not so young eyes. text sharper/crisp. but to me, I can read prime display text just fine and prime display is still considered the best out of all current android tablets. it really is good. Especially when compared to my ipad1.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
I quoted the article not because of the text quality (no objective person could possibly dispute that it's significantly improved), but more in reference to color quality.

Here's what the article says in general:

About color saturation and accuracy:

Oh, and there's this:

And about that text:

Come on, seriously: I'm an Android fan. I'd much rather be using an Android tablet with this screen. All I'm saying is that Android tablet makers need to pick up their game a bit. The Prime has an okay screen (although I saw a full seven Prime screens that had a terrible yellow tint and washed out colors, so there's some serious problems with their quality control), but comparing it to the iPad's is just not reasonable.

I suppose I'm hoping that ASUS, Acer, and Samsung (who really has no excuse) won't put blinders on the way you seem to have done.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] TechSavvy2:
I agree with demanderin. The iPad display is better. Nobody is going to question that. Do you need it? Absolutely not. I use TPrime, my wife uses new iPad right beside me. Using both, I can say it doesn't make a **** of a difference. You wanna know what the biggest difference is? Scaling and resolution issues on the iPad. I'd prefer to stick with the Prime.

And ironically, we find ourselves using the Prime most of the time anyways:)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] opentoe:
Nothing yet? The question was about quality, not that hard to answer. I figured someone in marketing would love to answer this type of question. Oh well.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] phat_11:
apparently the TF700T will be available as soon as 15th of July in France and already in preorder http://www.blogeee.net/2012/06/la-asus-transformer-tf700-apparait-en-ligne-dispo-au-15-juillet/... for the same price that we paid for the TF201

read and weep my dear friends
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] psijac:
599 euros is not the same as 599 dollars
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] phat_11:
maybe not, but the Prime TF201 was launched for 599 euros with the dock. So its pretty much the same price. And now I don't understand much where the TF201 stands...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
Yes, this would definitely imply that the TF700 will release at the same price as the current TF201. And really, I hate to say it but that makes some sense. I think ASUS knows that the TF700 is the real competition against the new iPad, and perhaps they're just waiting to clear out some inventory (whatever little bit there is) before dropping the TF700.

Will that infuriate some TF201 purchasers? Probably.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] nyijedi:
The product may be designed better, but it's still the same crappy company with the same awful service.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
Well, Acer just put the Iconia A700 up for pre-sales, at the same $449 for 32GB model that the A510 was selling for (and which was just released in April). Go the the Acer Store, and the A510 is no longer listed for sale.

I'm wondering if the A700 won't just replace the A510. If not, then at least the A510 will drop considerably in price. Bottom line is, the model is now there for ASUS to either drop the TF201 altogether (again, my bet) or drop the price on it and slot the TF700 in at the $499 for 32GB level (or, maybe even $449).

Sad thing is, Acer beat them to the punch with 1920X1200, even if the TF700 is ultimately the better device. Hell, the name's even similar.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
I think A510 is gone. There's not much separating it from the lower A210 which also has a Teg3 but with smaller (same as A500) battery. A510 buyers can't be too happy.

I like the A210 for its USB port. Street price should be $300.

Medians for Android tabs should be $300 for 10" and $200 for 7" this year. That's a good enough separation from iPad for Android tabs to sell. Let's hope Jelly bring some excitement.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
Funny enough, I'm seriously considering the Toshiba Excite 7.7, in spite of its somewhat ridiculous $499 price tag for 16GB. The reason is simple: I'm really that disillusioned with Android tablet screens so far. I liked everything about the Excite 10 (AT305) except the screen, and so hopefully AMOLED and 196PPI will be good enough.

Put another way, I'm not convinced that even the higher res screens will be all all that great in terms of color and contrast, where the AMOLED on the 7.7 will shine. Tells you just how bad my experience has been with Android tablet screens so far...

Otherwise I agree about where Android tablet prices should fall out in order to be successful. The Excite 7.7 is of course inflated because I'm sure that AMOLED screen isn't cheap, but maybe I'll make myself feel a little better about spending the money because it'll be running a Tegra 3 at 1280X800 with decent density instead of 1920X1200.