yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] @rbiter:
Not to mention many people can't afford high end phones. There are many in my circle of friends that flip out when they know how much I paid for my nexus. Even though I paid a premium for early adoption and not getting latest tech this is best phone I've ever had even with its shortcomings. Even some of the people getting in at $400 are having a hard time swallowing the price. And then you have the I paid top dollar subsidized price for this phone and their noses are high up in the air crowd.

This is a very exciting situation though. Hard to predict how well it turns out no matter how hard you try. Success will be harder to measure because the metrics are used to tell how well a phone is doing. Having several nexii kind of cannibalizes the Google experience right out of the gate. I imagine Samsung and Motorola would fare best all other things being equal or close in the hardware. So what else besides brand recognition will separate the Google experience?

...of the people, by the people, for the people...
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] Lipmonger:
I agree, it's not going to be an easy transition. Furthermore - XDA is a poor sample in two respects: most of us are heavy data users (favoring unlimited data), and many of us don't mind buying new devices every 10-12 months (ie, device cost isn't much of an issue).

That said, I'm going to go out on a limb here and make the assumption that Google will be providing some type of subsidy via their mobile ad network. Although I paid $549 for a Nexus One on launch day over 2 years ago (I think that was the price), Google has made it clear they are already working to reduce buy-direct prices. Heck, the GN is only $399 via Google Play. That's one hell of a bargain for the monthly pre-paid user!

Also, we still don't know how this will shake out from a pricing standpoint. We're kind of assuming "unlimited" plans will have no place in a pre-paid model, or that they'll be very expensive. But that's coming from a "contract pricing" mentality. Once the carriers lose the contract profits and actually have to start fighting for business - the entire game changes.

Then, carriers are put in the dreaded position of becoming the "dumb pipe" - that users can switch between every 30-days to their heart's content as they find the best price/service to meet their needs for that time frame. All of a sudden the carriers have no comfort level for screwing customers over and the REAL fun begins... competition for monthly service plans!

This is why I see plan prices actually falling once carriers are forced to deal with a market economy. Just my $0.02, and I could certainly be wrong. But I'd like to see it shake out over a few years to see what happens first.

---------- Post added at 04:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:35 PM ----------

The non-high-end phone buyers are put in an even BETTER position. Heck... buy your $69 device and go get the cheapest 250-minute pre-paid plan you can find!

A bargain hunter's delight! :)
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] @rbiter:
Some don't see it that way. Welcome to apple's dumb world.

...of the people, by the people, for the people...
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] bleach168:
Lipmonger, you're so optimistic.

Time and time again Verizon and AT&T make money grabs yet their market share only keeps growing. Until consumesr react negatively, this market is only going to get worse, not better.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] ckarrow2:
...and here's frosting on the wireless cake...

http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/11/technology/verizon-upgrade-fee/index.htm?iid=EL
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] Lipmonger:
You - my friend - nailed it. Consumers still think their $299 "contract-price" phone and 2-year locked-in rate is a "deal". But I am optimistic only because the model is thriving in Europe. Over there, there's no such thing as a "contract-price"... consumers buy phones outright and carriers compete for the monthly business.

I don't know where free phones was an Apple concept... as I recall this entire shake-up is being pushed by Google to give consumers more choice...

Fortunately for us, Google continues to forge ahead with this model. It's just a matter of whether or not consumers will continue to see the "contract-price" as a bargain, or smarten up and realize just how much the carriers are screwing them. Like you said, bleach, nothing will change until consumers start reacting negatively.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] @rbiter:
Looking through the wrong end of the binoculars. Not everybody is middle class or upper class. I am also looking at this from the lower class perspective. And many people, even on xda buy subsidized. Sure what you are saying is true but in reality it will take some truly remarkable mid priced phones with high end specs to shake things up. Sure apple is getting more people to take a bite, but the fact is their is something bigger and better that basket with a price few are willing to pay. Android phones are no exception.

...of the people, by the people, for the people...
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] BrianDigital:
funny I know some people that wait every year with baited breath to get the new iphone, or lets say the ipad at full retail which costs more than what googles is selling for their nexus ATM

people buy ipads every year without a contract, why not a phone I just did, and I feel so much better now on pre paid where as I used look at my sprint bill and look at all the unused mins and hovering 2gb data use-age

this model of great phone and pre paid service is going to take off with alot of people, times are tough some people and more and more people are being wise with their money,
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] Buddy Revell:
T-Mobile/Walmart's $30 pre-paid plan will be the best deal left for US carriers imo.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] HeCareth:
This kind of sucks because I use an average of 8GB of data a month. I just wonder how this shared thing will work.

They crazy part about this is that Google will now be offering multiple nexus lines to each manufacturer. Basically a Nexus flagship for HTC, Samsung, Motorola, LG, etc...Verizon is really just giving their customers another reason to jump ship.

However having a shared data is much better than having to get a data plan for your phone and your tablet. Hopefully this forces the prices of 4G tablets down to something reasonable, where we can just add it on for 10 extra a month.

For me and my wife 4G Tablet and unlimted smartphone would cost over $100 in data charges. If I can get at least 20 - 25 GB shared across 4 devices for under 100 that won't actually be that bad.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] martonikaj:
It's already the best deal in wireless right now, assuming you're going to be light on minutes (even if you're higher on minutes, at $30 you can afford the $0.10 a minute overages).

It definitely isn't the only option though. There are other good prepaid options, of course.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] HeCareth:
I'm sure Sprint will hold out and get everyone who jumps ship from VZW and ATT...then without notice drop their unlimited plan...LOL its a conspiracy!!
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] danielkuhlman:
I was in another thread explaining why Google would release at least one nexus phone if the five nexus devices at once comes true. Now, why would they? if my unlimited data plan is dropped, then Verizon lost at least ten customers i know of. Verizon is the only company with halfway decent service here, but if I can't have unlimited data, then I don't see the point.

This post saddens me. Looks like I'll be "dying" when this happens. ETF? No thank you.

And as far as letting you go from your contact if they change it, don't count on it. I worked for at&t, in the terms and conditions and in the contact that customers sign, customers actually give their consent to have their planned changed without so much as a "sorry" from at&t. I highly doubt Verizon is any different.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] bleach168:
I don't see Sprint changing their policy. It's not like Sprint is going to run out of bytes. The speeds will be slower for sure, but it's a good way to differentiate themselves from the competition.

It will all come down to a decision for the consumer; do you want fast speeds but low caps or do you want slow speeds but no caps? When Sprint gets their LTE network up, "slow" might still be 3mbps.

---------- Post added at 06:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:24 PM ----------

There are laws that protect the consumer in situations like that.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] Thatoneguy.:
No more contacts after the initial one, still get a new phone at a subsidized price ever 18 months.

http://m.jsonline.com/business/104089409.html

Swyped while swerving from my Motorola Electrify
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] jjhiza:
Ok, a couple questions (because some people seem to have a pretty good grasp as to what's going on here)...

1.) Doesn't this play by VZW smell a bit like price fixing or price gouging? FORCING consumers to pay additional money for a service they never signed up for (by artificially manipulating the supply and therefore demand for data) is, in fact, illegal... am I missing something here?

2.) If Google is trying to make a power move, by "helping" us break free of carrier manipulation (by offering off-contract devices at reasonable prices), why wouldn't they generate a press release, and let us know? It would be in their best interest, and would help alleviate the panic and anger the VZW public is about to display.

3.) Don't even get me started on the business ethics side of VZW's move (they obviously have none), but here's a thought... I for one, will jump ship to Sprint and drag my entire family with me. Millions of angry VZW customers across the country will do the same. With that influx of customers and cash, don't you guys think Sprint would have the ability to improve the quality and reach of their network?! True, data speeds may be slower for a year or two or three, but IF Sprint kept their unlimited plan, and snatched up 60%- 75% of the disenfranchised, former VZW consumer base, what's to stop them from developing a network that is just as good?

4.) What if VZW significantly reduces device pricing? I'm talking about between 35% and 50%... it's a pipe dream most likely, but they have to recognize the threat they're posing to their own business, by following this present course. Like I just said, if enough of the unlimited data customers jump ship in anger (is 12% of their consumer base a good estimation??), they stand to lose hundreds of millions of dollars. Stockholders, stakeholders, and corporate "suits" could never stand that kind of earnings decrease; they have to do something to offset that potentiality. Reducing device prices (say...$95 for a GNex) would probably keep a lot of people happy. Look, I make a good salary, and COULD afford to pay for non-subsidized devices along with tiered data, but I WON'T. Many people aren't even fortunate enough to have that option, so concessions have to be made, right? Otherwise VZW risks destroying their customer base, in favor of an autocratic business model, and risks bankruptcy... drastic reductions in device pricing is the only way I could see this move being even moderately successful. My point is, IF this strategy is implemented, we may not see a very dramatic shift in overall price versus what we're all paying now; it would be lower device cost and higher data costs, versus high device cost and low to moderate data costs.

Sorry to go on for so long... What do you guys think?
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] adrynalyne:
1. They have to give you an etf-free opt out of your contract.

2. I don't think that is what is happening.

3. Money.

4. They won't.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] Smokeey:
Its not like I ever use mobile data on my phone. I'm always near WiFi. I think I had 739 mb last month. Meh.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] TiltedAz:
There's lot of potential in the future to use more and more data. Even cars are adding internet connection, some are connecting via cellphones. I can only hope the future free market will have a way of eliminating excessive money grubbing companies.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] martonikaj:
1.) No not really. If they substantially change your contract you can leave. They're completely allowed to change their plan pricing if they want.

2.) What if Google isn't ready to announce it yet? There's been 1 speculative rumor from WSJ, that doesn't mean that Google is ready to announce anything...

3.) Sprint doesn't have the money to roll out anything more than they're already planning on doing. They'd have to get a serious influx of customers (many many more than the insignificant amount that will leave VZW over this unlimited deal) to make enough money to extend their network boundaries. They're limping along right now.

4.) VZW isn't going to be reducing prices of devices or plans any time soon. They really don't have any reason to...
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] 1stx2:
That's you. Not everybody is near wifi all the time.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] jjhiza:
Some really good, insightful responses guys...thanks for the feedback! Being the financial guy I am, I did some digging to try to come up with some realistic numbers to support (or lend credence to) my questions.

- According to the VZW site, their wireless customer base is 92.2 million retail users (ie. you and me), with total revenues of $70.2 billion in 2011

- As detailed by this article from yesterday, 71% of those 92.2 million (or 65.46 million people) still have unlimited data plans

Now, if you break those numbers down (dividing $70.2 billion in revenues by the 92.2 million consumer base), the average amount each of VZW's customers spend per year is $761.39. Doesn't look like a lot, right? But if you multiply that dollar figure by the number of us on unlimited plans (65.46 million), WE account for $49.84 billion in revenues!

Imagine what will happen if say, 35% (22.91 million) of those unlimited plan members, leave because they're unhappy...there goes $17.44 billion dollars out the front door. It doesn't matter which new carrier they choose really...the point is that Verizon shareholders will not look kindly on the loss of dividends or the devaluation of their financial portfolios.

I'm not trying to make this a "Verizon sucks" argument...I'm trying to break this down to simple business and economics. Verizon is publicly owned, and taking such a massive hit to their year end numbers is unacceptable (I work in finance, so I'm fairly knowledgeable about how shareholders react). To counter an inevitably bad reaction, the company would have to do something to keep us "in the fold" so to speak. That could be anything from pricing promos on the new data plans, to a steep discount on devices for, say 2 contract periods.

In the end, VZW will get what they want, which is more money, but they'll have to work hard to earn it from us. I'm really trying to spin this massively negative news into a possible positive for us. :)
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] zerocool79346:
I'll jump ship either at the end of my contract or when they make the switch and have to give me the option out. Unlimited data is the ONLY reason I have VZW over T-Mobile or AT&T.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] legopuff:
Does anyone know if I upgrade my current 3g phone to a 4g phone right now before Verizon's new policy comes into play, if I will be able to keep unlimited? Should I count on Verizon being stupid again and just give up my unlimited for the double data promotion?
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] :
Jitterbug!! haha... I would put a pager back on the hip before I get the granny phone
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] se1zure31:
I think the only solution to this is for free wi-fi hotspots in cities and towns. Getting charged for data overages is complete bs; doesn't matter what network it is.

This is getting out of control and if the cell companies really can't allow all of this unlimited data that we are paying for, than we need an alternative.

At least this could alleviate some of the congestion these cell phone companies are complaining about.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] trashcan:
People need to rethink how they use their smart phone rather than being a smart ass. If you have wifi most the time. .at home or at work..Just get a prepaid tmo, straight talk..even they cap u at 2GB, but you still paying a lot less than the smart ass bros. I am happy with my simple mobile 4G plan with my GN. Paying $60 and after reimbursed from work. My plan is free and never have to worry about usage on voice or data.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] buur11:
I rarely use data either as I am often near wifi. I also rarely make insurance claims on my home. Either way I like the safety of knowing that unlimited data and my insurance both exist.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] mordrukk:
I think the definition of "when upgrading" is the key to understanding the implications of contract renewal.

Basically, if you're eligible for a device upgrade and end up paying $199 for a $800 device, they can renegotiate the terms of your contract at that time, as the deal for getting a device for 25% retail is where they get you. However, if you purchase the device outright, from a non VZW source (eBay, Amazon, etc.), you should be able to enable the device on their network without having to renegotiate the contract, as there is no deal you're adhering to in order to acquire a new device.

I did just that last week when I got my nexus from eBay. I went to a VZW store, got online in 5 minutes, and my unlimited data contract is still intact and I am still eligible for an upgrade.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] jimmyhook:
Double data isn't bad, i'm rocking the 10 GB for 50. Decent price for fast LTE.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] catalyst11:
Some of us are paying $10 for unlimited data from VZW. When you go from $10/line ($50/5 lines in my case) to a bucket amount which will probably cost more than $50, then it does seem bad.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] :
Agreed, that's what I have.

Sounds like you had a good run then, now its time to pay for what you get.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] Zepius:
im sorry but no.

unlimited smart phone data has been around for 7 years. i am paying for unlimited data. if you're paying for your plan and getting what was offered to you at the time, then you are paying for what you get.

so the fact that he is paying $10 for unlimited data (awesome for him btw), he is paying for what he gets.

i would be all for tiered data if it saved me money... but it doesnt. $30/mo unlimited vs $30/mo for 2GB (4GB due to double data, which may not stay around). i use between 4 and 5GB a month. which would you rather have to save money?
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] catalyst11:
Agreed. :) In reality though, I don't expect to be only paying $10/month/per line for unlimited data forever, even though I was told that it would be on my account as long as I was a customer.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] :
The market is much different now then it was 7 years ago, its much faster and LTE is everywhere. I dont think LTE was even a concept 7 years ago. A majority of the speculation claims it will only affect LTE users.. LTE is allot faster than the CDMA network was 7 years ago.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] Zepius:
well when i first got LTE (sigh... thunderbolt), the plan included unlimited data so your entire point goes right out the window.

doesnt matter if the market is different. i didnt have a choice. i had $30/mo for data or no smartphone/data plan

Edit for clarity:

the unlimited plan was the only option for at least 7 years, not that it has been around for 7years
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] catalyst11:
I've been on the $10/month data plan for about a year and a half btw, not 7 years ago. I was paying the $30/month previous before that but I would not have signed all 5 lines up for data if it wasn't for the $10 promo.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] :
I disagree. My point is that they are not charging you more for the same service, they are charging more and offering better service. LTE is the package that better service comes in, but it wouldn't matter what they call it or if they impose the fees for it immediately or not. How much more pissed would you be if they would have raised your rates when you bought your TB, before LTE was readily available? they did the smart thing and waited till they have a large LTE footprint before they imposed the increase (for LTE). Keep in mind that most of the speculation states the increase only applies to LTE.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] adrynalyne:
They are only doing this to fatten their wallets. You realize this, right? They aren't doing anyone favors.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] Zepius:
no, they are not charging more for better service. what if i didnt have LTE in my area? you know they are offering fewer and fewer 3g only phone as well. i'd still being paying for a service i cant even use.

when i got my TB i expected to pay more for LTE.. like $10 more a month, but guess what.. that didnt happen.

vzw is not doing any customer a favor. they are making the changes to make more money. they did tiered packages to make more money, and they are doing this to make more money. if you think they are using this extra money they will be making to put back in their network, you are fooling yourself.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] @rbiter:
How pissed would you be if they put toll booths on the autobahn? No point in getting that Lamborghini you always wanted for Xmas. Still hurts even though they let you ride your bicycle and civic all day every day for a flat fee. but the whole get less, pay more and we are gonna tax the hell out of you because we are greedy still doesn't fly well with anybody.

...of the people, by the people, for the people...
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] hotleadsingerguy:
But who's to say that Americans don't want to pay full price for the phones? The reason most people don't is that there's no incentive: Pay more for the phone and pay the same for the service. In Europe and some other places if you buy the phone off-contract (or bring your own phone) you get a discount on service.

T-Mobile does this, to some degree, but nobody else really caught the bug. If all of the carriers did this we'd be seeing savings of $20+ a month for service, which is a great tradeoff for buying the phone yourself (you end up saving the subsidy amount each year).
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] adrynalyne:
You are looking at a smaller picture than I am.

You can offer someone 20-30 bucks less a month on service, if they pay 500 bucks for their phone.

or

You can offer someone an increase of 20-30 a month, and pay 199.99 for their phone.

I can tell you right now the second deal will be more appealing. It is an exception, not the rule, that (at least American) folks will pay more upfront.

Look at credit card debt in the US. Same thing. Why pay now, when you can pay over time? Is it right? Hell no. Is it smart? HELL NO. It is however, reality,
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] @rbiter:
Americans. Cheap bastards. Can I interest you in interest? No money down. Just pay more monthly. USA cellular are killing it on family plans.

...of the people, by the people, for the people...
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] :
I dont expect any favors. I do expect they will be making more money, but not from me, my plan wont change.

Oh really? Did they not just TODAY turn LTE on in 28 new cities and expand in 11 more? They did. So who is fooling themselves? You if you think the network isn't getting better on a regular basis.

Never been across seas, dont know that I'd want to go. Definitively wouldn't race down the autobahn. Dont want a Lambo my Pontiac is good enough. lol.:)
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] adrynalyne:
I've been without LTE at home since September rollout last year.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] Zepius:
and you still didnt read what i wrote.

they will be making more money. they are doing that expansion now with current money.

customers will be paying more for data and receiving smaller allowance.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] @rbiter:
Miss the point of metaphors much?

...of the people, by the people, for the people...
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] adrynalyne:
Not only are they doing it with current money, they are making bank each quarter. Look at their last two quarters. Doesn't look like they are hurting to me.