yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
Yeah... You got 3 senior users/devs trying to help you, but you gotta be willing to be patient and read everything multiple times... The shift is one of the more difficult phones to root. If I were you, I would re-lock the bootloader via htc's tool, and start the process all over from step 1, and DO NOT USE THE HTC UNLOCK TOOL WHEN ROOTING! I got a slow night around the house tonight gtalk me if you need more help (drob311420)... :beer:

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
ok my apologies, i just went to download the 2.2 RUU so i had it on file and the links dead, ill hunt around for another link and post it here when i find it unless someone else has it to link to it

after finding twenty dead links I found an RUU and am downloading but its going to be a little while before it finishes and i can reupload it and link it so kick back and have a beer (or 6)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/hdzud2

its 2.3.4 but anything at this point has to be better than where were at right now
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
thanks man yur like awesome lol i know with your knowledge we... i mean yu... will help me out i cant wait :D until i can flash a rom
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prboy1969:
I have at least five good links posted for the 2.2 RUU. I believe one is near the end of the RUU thread, with instructions.

EDIT: The post I was talking about is HERE

TEAM MiK

MikROMs Since 3/13/11
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
the one i posted is for 2.3.4, i just used it for ****s and giggles to verify it.
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prboy1969:
So wait. Is he starting all over? Or what is going on? Like where exactly is he at? I just want to know what page he's on.

TEAM MiK

MikROMs Since 3/13/11
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
thanks prboy, downloading that **** so i dont have to go through this again lol

---------- Post added at 04:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:19 PM ----------

the whole things been a cluster****, as far as i know hes stuck on the boot logo because he skipped a bunch of steps. to my knowledge hed have to start over from 2.3.4 wouldnt he?
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prboy1969:
If his Bootloader is Unlocked he should try the 2.2 RUU. If all else fails, run the 2.3.4 RUU. Then use Indirects method to Root. Carefully, and slowly done it works every time. I've already personally used it about five times.

TEAM MiK

MikROMs Since 3/13/11
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
me too and im about to go through it again in a minute now that im back on 2.3.4 lol
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
Yup, Indirect's method works well... My advice is to get the phone to 2.3.4 and start fresh, carefully, and patiently following each step exactly...

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
yup, thats what i do when i need to :)
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
im downloading these ruu files taking a while, but much thanks to yu guys the knowledge yu guys have about rooting im sure i should be ok
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
do like the 3 of us had said, start fresh from android 2.3.4 RUU that i posted and go SLOW and follow every step to the letter in indirects method.
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
yea im going to do as yu guys say.. im in good hands
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prboy1969:
I'm going to definitely agree with drob. I just read back through all the posts. At this point I would say it's the best, and safest bet.

TEAM MiK

MikROMs Since 3/13/11
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
yea i cant till these ruu files fully download, did it take yu guys this long for it to download its taking me about 40 mins
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prboy1969:
Depends on your Internet. They are fairly large files.

TEAM MiK

MikROMs Since 3/13/11
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
yea but im so anxious to get this started because yu guys have me hyped, i know its going to work since yu all are telling it should work
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
yeah took about 50 minutes each for me too, its normal even on a good connection
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
patience is the key success haa
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prboy1969:
That is your new mantra ;)

TEAM MiK

MikROMs Since 3/13/11
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
might wanna get that tattooed on your arm so this doesnt happen again :p
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
hahahaha right i think i just might do tht bro :)
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
lmao im just kiddin with ya, were all here to help. i just didnt expect it to take over 14 hours
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
hahaha right im well over due for a haircut and a bath ... j\k lolol
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prboy1969:
At this point lets just make a group project. We'll recieve a gold star at the end of completion.

TEAM MiK

MikROMs Since 3/13/11
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
LMAO no **** right xD
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
.. lmfao yu guys are making me feel soo smart *sarcastic voice*
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
dude dont sweat it, 2.3.4 is a ***** to root even for those of us thatve done it several times over
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
when i run ruu should i be on bootloader or just turn it on ?
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prboy1969:
You can run it from the home screen. But I usually run it from Fastboot.
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
im rooting for ya (hehe wordplay) to get it right this time.
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prboy1969:
Ok how many have you had already :p
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
i didnt work :{ it sadi i need to get the right update utility ..when is from version ##### to version ##### there were the same versions ..
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
i dont drink, havent for almost 3 years now

---------- Post added at 05:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:27 PM ----------

you trying to use the 2.3.4 or 2.2 RUU? the one i uploaded or the other?

also, i got the same error msg when i tried it with the phone on, try again from fastboot
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
the one yu had
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
hmmm, that makes things interesting then. for ****s and giggles you can try the other one if going into fastboot and trying mine again doesnt work
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
sounds good . :]
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
FIRST: ERASE THE PGXXX.ZIP FROM YOUR SDCARD...

Than when in bootloader you have to hit the volume up button until it says fastboot usb on the screen... Than plug into your pc

Once it says fastboot usb on the screen and your device is attached via usb, start the ruu from your pc...

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
yeah what he said, this has gotten to the point im brainfarting now...
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
im downloaing 2.2 another 45 mins smh lol
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
There are 4 ruu's for the shift... First things first, go relock your bootloader... Than try running ruu... I've heard that ruus won't run from an htc dev unlocked bootloader, only s-off and s-on...

Edit: run the 2.3.4 ruu from a locked (s-on) bootloader in fastboot usb mode...

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
how can i re lock it ?
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
Htc dev...

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prboy1969:
I've had a 50 / 50 experience with that. Which aren't good odds in my eyes.
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
Exactly... This is the huge problem that happens when steps are skipped... If you flash a rom with s-on unlocked bootloader, you are only flashing the rom, not the boot.img because the boot partition is not made read/write when you use htc unlock tool...

You might have to fastboot flash the stock 2.3.4 boot.img

What happens when you boot into recovery?

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
it boots into recovery then i flash a rom and reboot system then it gets stuck on the htc logo
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
i havent used htcdev for this very reason, i hope you can get your shift sorted and rooted after all of this.

---------- Post added at 05:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 PM ----------

adb logcat? might help, might not
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
Like I said... Re-lock your bootloader via htc dev... Run ruu with locked (s-on) bootloader... The goal is getting you to a stock 2.3.4 unrooted state...

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
there is nothing on htc dev stating that yu can relock it , only states unlocking boot loader
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
logcat?
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
Read this... Edit: 3rd post down... I know its for an incredible but it all works the same... once you are relocked you should be good to go...

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sparksco:
The issue is the same one I'm having I'm pretty sure or at least simular...

As soon as I flash misc.img, pull battery and boot into bootloader with PG06IMG.zip on the root of the sdcard the bootloader reads as locked. I've unlocked it via htcdev.com and it stays unlocked the whole time unless I attempt to flash misc.img in any way and then bam it's locked again the next time I boot into bootloader..

The progress bar fills up blue all the way to the top but then it errors out saying wrong image type or something to that effect.

This IS NOT a user issue, but more of a issue with the bootloader locking itself on any attempt to flash misc.img no matter what method you use like pulling the battery ect.
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
i really wish you woulda chimed in with this 14 hours ago...but thanks for the info
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
No... You do not need to use htc dev unlock tool... That is user error... Using htc dev unlock is a bad choice as it doesn't really "unlock" anything...

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
what other way do yu unlock bootloader?
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
Through command prompt you have to enter a command to re-lock it... That's the only way...

Edit: ****... Sorry, I read your ? wrong... We have an eng hboot that we flash... That gives us full engineering s-off... Which, in the long run unlocks our phones fully, including the ability to flash radios...

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
nt re-lock , yu said using htc dev to unlock bootloader isnt the way to go.. but what other way is there?
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sparksco:
Dude have you even tried rooing stock unrooted 2.3.4 yet? Are you on the new bootloader? Nope didn't so... come back with some screen shots when you try it and know wtf your talking about lmao.
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
Fu@k off... We were helping dude... Not you... Matter of fact all you did was probably confuse him more... Congrats... So if you wanna take the time to walk this user through rooting their device than feel free, if not, shut up, and watch and learn how to be helpful instead of high and mighty...

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sparksco:
Where? Please direct me to these "senior" devs thanks...
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
here we go, lets not start the trolling and just get this guys phone done
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sparksco:
I'm not trolling, I'm trying to get me and this guy a s-off bootloader and there's a obvious problem with doing that that you a$$***** who have never even attempted any of these rooting methods think you know everything about.
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
The only senior dev here is you, we all know you are the greatest android developer ever... Dude, GO AWAY! You aren't helping... Matter of fact you are being an a$$hole...

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
ok, the name calling **** isnt needed, take that troll **** somewhere else like rootzwiki. anyways, all ive been trying to do is help the guy fix his **** up since he skipped a bunch of **** and has never rooted a shift before and considering theres been 3 of us trying to help him and now you wanna jump in, be useful or **** off. read the whole thread and youll the issues thatve been going on
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
what method is there on xda tht i can follow to root and flash all the good stuff?
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
Indirect has a good method ive never had an issue using it from 2.3.4
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
Me neither... Indirect's method works good... Sparksco has a method too... Oh wait, he doesn't... That's right...

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
on another note im done because i know where this is going with good ol sparkles chiming in now and im having a bad enough day that i dont need his trolling. feel free to email me if needed, good luck az18zz
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
and tht includes the htc dev unlok boot loader huh?
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
No it doesn't...

Edit: we have an eng hboot that we flash... None of that htc dev unlock stuff... It isn't needed using indirect's method...

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prboy1969:
Must we really go here? Is this helping anyone? Oh and BTW, just so we ( you and I ) are clear. I have personally rooted about five different devices using Indirects method. So I'm not trying to mislead or deceive anyone. As for me being a Dev well that's a matter of opinion. Personally I consider myself a tinkerer, always learning. I don't think I'll ever be called the man when it comes to Android. But that's not what I'm after. I'm here to help and learn.
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
(Thanks) Sorry, you are limited to 8 thanks per day

i concur

---------- Post added at 06:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 PM ----------

az18zz i have my backup shift on 2.3.4, if you get yours back to stock i will personally go over each step at the same time as you and root with you so you understand it, email me when you get sorted.
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sparksco:
I will try indirects method.. But to the OP of this thread don't be fooled by these "senior" devs thinking they know what works when they have never even tried it. I didn't make the COCKY senior dev statement to begin with.

This is why people are affriaid to post when they have issues with something on the shift forum because they'll get flammed by "senior" devs stating they "Didn't read enough", or "Didn't follow instructions", or simply, "you must of done something wrong".

Have a good day senior devs.
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
im not a senior dev nor do i claim to be, theres no recognized developer next to my name
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
sounds awesome its doing the update back to 2.3.4 right now :] yu guys are so amazing
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
thats awesome!
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
after a long day with yu kool smart dudes we did im effin happy mann !! glad to see the sense u.i again :D
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
I have rooted my shift numerous times from 2.3.4 with updated hboot and all... Indirects method works...

And since you have an issue with the word dev, Somebody is a dev, unlike yourself, and if it really matters to you, I'm a recognized dev on a different android site as well... You are such a fool... Go play with your "e peen" on a different forum... We do amazingly well when you are gone so why don't you just be gone again...

To the o.p., email somebody or hit me up on gtalk if you want a good walk through...

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
im so happy .. yu guys are geniuses
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
im so ready to root now bros
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sparksco:
So does this mean that we can finally vote out one of the rooting methods "once and for all"?

This is the only thing that is confusing everyone about how to root their phones.. if this is the case I can force my bootloader back to being locked and not "re-locked" by flashing the misc.img on the unlocked bootloader.
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
No, not geniuses... Lol... Now, take your time and read everything...

Just for reference, exactly what steps were needed to get the ruu to run?

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
in my opinion id have to say the htcdev method doesnt work for most, i personally use indirects method and it works everytime
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
Go away... We were just wrong according to you... Nothing you contributed to this thread helped the op one bit!

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prboy1969:
You just don't know when to say when do you. I give you an out, extend my hand. You slap it away :confused: . Well all good :) . As I said before I am not here to make myself out to be something I'm not. I'm here to help out and learn. Oh and BTW all BS aside, in spite of what you may think of me. If you ever need a help, just ask. I know that may never happen but hey the offer is on the table. As for people being afraid to post, that could be true. But it would be more likely then not because of other reasons. Also people know that if they don't want to post up, or " afraid to " they can PM me. As is evident by my inbox. But now enough of this garbage. Can we please get back to the matter at hand. Helping him Root his device.
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
can i rru to 2.2 and follow the rooting method the 2.2 way??
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
ok, from a fresh start az18zz this is the thread were going to be using

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1558532

to achieve root and s-off on your shift.

go through the thread and download the files that it says youll need (most of which you should have already)

---------- Post added at 07:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:15 PM ----------

not yet and SLOW DOWN
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
No you need to do indirects method before ruu'ing to froyo... The ruu will fail if you try it before using indirects method...

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
command prompt fastboot oem lock, whicih relocked bootloader.. then i ran ruu 2.3.4.. which lead to a happy face
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
Thanks... I'm smiling... Ear to fu@king ear! :D:beer:

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sparksco:
I never once asked for your help and I never will. Your not indirect are you? You made a few kernels, some themes, great job! I don't care what your "dev" status is.
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
lol :D
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
seriously this is the **** that chases people away from XDA, lets all shut the hell up and post useful **** and get these damn phones rooted ffs.
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prboy1969:
Ok now stop. Go read Indirects thread take your time, and read. Remember go slow, and deliberately to your task. Do not rush ;) .
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
thread went quiet, got me nervous now...
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
i just finished downloading all the files
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
ok, put tacoroot.sh in your adb directory and lets get this show rolling with the first step

adb push tacoroot.sh /data/local/tmp/taco

adb shell chmod 755 /data/local/tmp/taco

adb shell sh /data/local/tmp/taco --setup

YOU NEED TO Hit Vol up + Vol Down + Power all at once after it goes into recovery!

(make sure adb debugging is selected in settings/applications/development first on your phone)
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prboy1969:
Did you make sure to read, and reread things first?

TEAM MiK

MikROMs Since 3/13/11
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
i puit those commands one at a time? do i still have to put fastboot? then those following commands>
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
yea, im just lost with this adb ? i usually type fastboot then the following commands .. and i never had to type in adb
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
do those with the phone on, itll reboot the phone to the recovery and when you see recovery hit the vol up, vol down, and power all at once to get to the recovery with the option to reboot and reboot the phone

---------- Post added at 07:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:58 PM ----------

you have the android sdk installed on your comp right?

you need the adb files in platform tools for this
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prboy1969:
One at a time, enter, wait. Not in fastboot. Fastboot is later.
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
i have to run, can you help him through this prboy, sorry to bounce in the middle

---------- Post added at 08:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 PM ----------

this guide is simple, go slow and follow it to the letter.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1558532
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prboy1969:
Do what I can ;)
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
did i have to put the pg06img.zip and misc.img to the root of my sd card?/
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prboy1969:
Your kind of quiet. How goes it?
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
i everything but it didnt read the last code about sd misc.img ?
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prboy1969:
Do not put the PG06IMG on the Root of the SD Card yet. If there is one there, remove it. Put the misc.img on the Root of the SD Card, and in platform-tools.
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
No... You need to stop everything and read the directions... Your questions are making it obvious that you aren't reading or following the directions... Like we said, we will help, but you gotta put the work in on your end...

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
Why when I went into boot loader hboot didn't update I hate misc.img in the root of my SD card its formatted too fat32

Epic touch phone of xXHELLBoy91Xx
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drob311:
Because the misc.img is a misc.img and not a PGxxx.zip...

Sent from my PG06100
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prboy1969:
The misc.img does not " Update " the bootloader. I'm inclined to think you are not taking your time. All the misc.img does is allow you to downgrade. Did you re-read the OP in the thread?
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] az18zz:
Sorry I did now it worked after it does the downgrade on hboot in boot loader .. then what do I do?

Epic touch phone of xXHELLBoy91Xx
[EVO Shift 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] -somebody-:
back in full facepalm mode

az18zz you really need to read the instructions bro, i know you can read because youre talking to us so read the directions and follow them