yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] Korupted1:
I would say with market share that has doubled in the first quarter of 2012 in the USA and market share going up all around the world, that for a new ecosystem in the mobile world it is actually doing fairly well. With WP8 just around the corner and it being able to support much better hardware and screens and more customisation I would say that number will start to go up even quicker, it will be the 3rd ecosystem for sure fairly soon, It may even jump to 2 in certain countries around the world.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sitizenx:
We need to see Q2 global sales. I haven't bought a smartphone in YEARS and I finally jumped on the Windows Phone/Nokia bandwagon.

Maybe. Statistics have shown most apps are never used a couple of weeks after they are downloaded. The ridiculous app numbers quoted for iOS are pointless. The vast majority of them, 99%, have zero utility for me.

Marketing.

Beta was better than VHS. VHS won. The sheeple don't care about quality. It's not a case of "if you build it they will come." It is a case of "if you market it they will come." Anyone that holds a Lumia 900 up next to ANY iPhone and determines the iPhone is better is insane. Girlfriend has iPhone 4S. She saw my Lumia 900. She wanted one. Simple as that. You add in the fact the Lumia was FREE for weeks and you really need your head examined if you don't give it serious consideration. FREE Nokia drive?! Same GF had to pay $40.00 for Garmin app for a recent trip. That's $40 more than I paid for my phone and FREE nokia drive. Do NOT get me started on LTE.

The best does not always win. I just want three strong ecosystems competing. Watch what happens. iPhone 5 gonna come out with much larger screen. If not they are going to look silly next to Lumia 900 and Samsung Note. Samsung Note is redonkulous.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sinister1:
I hope your right and I also hope no more of this Apple style locked down crap either. What MS has failed to remember is that WM had a very faithful following because it was way better and user friendly than the iCrap.;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Not another one. Dig up threads from 2 years ago, and you'll see people with the exact same arguments.

Either way I look forward to BB and WP8.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
Let me get this laid out so I can understand:

Why is Windows Phone not doing well?

"Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them."

- So then why is Windows 7, the OS that actually is in the exact same product space, doing fantastically well?

Honestly, guys, if an argument has to be made there really needs to be some kind of logical progression to it.

Windows Phone is not doing well like every single OS not called "Android" or "iOS" because those are the most dominant OSes right now. Why are they dominant? Because Apple recreated the whole thumb optimized, mass-market smartphone experience and Google quickly followed suit. Everyone else (BB OS, Palm, Symbian, WinMo) were all caught napping and look are where they are now. When you bring Microsoft unique reasons you are failing to explain why RIM is also slowly dying as well. why Nokia killed off Symbian. Why WebOS could not make it.

I wish someone would put a sticky stating exactly why Windows Phone has such a low marketshare right now:

Android and iOs have the lion's share of the market. Either an iPhone or one of the hundreds of Android phones meet or exceed the average user's needs in a smartphone. There is no compelling reason right now for the average consumer to leave iOS or Android and go to Windows Phone.

There really is no mystery behind it. It is plain and simple. A co-worker just got a Samsung Focus used and his first reaction was "wow this thing is fast and smooth." I told him amazing too on a single core cpu. He has played with his share of Android phones. He then went on to curse having to use Zune to do his file management. lol.

But there is nothing really to dwell on. Vet is right; this topic is past being a dead horse. The Lumia 900 gave a little glimmer of something that would compel some people to switch, but there needs to be more handsets, features, and apps. And then they will come over. And that will take time.
[Windows Phone 7 General] bassembrace:
Lets hope they will do it! I remember when i got my hd7 my friends were like "whoaaa, you have windows phone!!" but now after they used my phone a few times theyre like "oh you still have this phone?" and i say yes because i love it, i love the OS and even the HD7 hardware but you cant do so much withouth the "exclusive" apps. I hope MCSFT get the most important cross platform apps to windows phone and dont scr** them up, like skype with no notification and background system or the new app viber without VOIP
[Windows Phone 7 General] BeEazy10:
Window mobile phone not going down at all. I honestly like what Microsoft's doing. There not pushing pointless apps out, there not shipping out phones that's loading with battery killing/memory hog apps.

Only thing that there behind in and my opinion is the build quality. 8G of memory no micro SD card slot! That's kills a perfect phone! If Ur going to do that - Microsoft, make an 8G, 16G, 32G, and 64G version
[Windows Phone 7 General] axne1:
So if all of this is true why do they market Windows Phone to not be in beta?
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Because even in this, "beta" of sorts it runs smoother and is a better device than the competition.
[Windows Phone 7 General] magicsquid:
Google has been wildly successful with Android (at least in terms of units) because Android was built to reduce friction between all sides of the market. The extreme flexibility of Android ‘bows down’ to the device manufactures AND the carriers. It enabled device manufactures to do what they do best (build lots of devices). It enabled carriers to do what they do best (market lots of devices). It enabled users tons of choice. My hypothesis is that it also enables too much fragmentation that hurts developers will eventually drive end users nuts.

With Windows Phone Microsoft has taken a different approach by putting the end user experience above all else. By focusing on delivering a consistent, well designed (and therefore less flexible) user experience WP raises its middle finger at both the device manufacturers and mobile carriers. WP says “here’s the hardware spec you shalt use” (to the device manufacturers). And it says “Here’s how it will be updated” (to the carriers).

Source: http://ceklog.kindel.com/2011/12/26/windows-phone-is-superior-why-hasnt-it-taken-off/
[Windows Phone 7 General] BeEazy10:
So true! I was playing with the lumia 710 at an T-Mobile kiosk at the mall, and i fell in love. I wanted to leave my phone there and run away with the 710.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vnvman:
Great post is great.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
They still don't get it. 2 years and they don't get it.

BTW the new app deal by Nokia is horrible. MS should be doing it for the entire platform not just for Nokia. Some apps will be exclusive until 2013.
[Windows Phone 7 General] colossus_r:
+1 ...Yes ..another one !!!

Get a life m8's No its not going down ..
[Windows Phone 7 General] prohibido_por_la_ley:
Windows Phone is going up not down. Reportedly it's 2% market share in US, 7% in Germany, its also making great strides in Finland. So it's quite misinformed to say that we're going down.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
Not much change in two years, but there are still a positive or hopelessly optimistic few that see no errs.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
But how can you stop a company from reaching out to software devs to help set them apart from the rest? Also the deals are only for 6 months, with the only exception being ESPN which is a year. But I do agree with your premise about Microsoft needing to facilitate exclusives for the platform on a whole. It is a solid idea. And Microsoft has some pretty desireable inhouse software. Office and now Skype.

---------- Post added at 05:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:54 PM ----------

Out of curiousity, since I find you tend to be on the negative side of the line, what do you think Microsoft should have done or should do?
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
Office? Full MS Office has been around since WM2002. SkyDrive integration is new to WP7 along with Sharepoint, hell even OneNote was supported in WM6.1. Skype? I had that on an Axim 6 years ago with that Enfora GSM CF card. Office integration has been the true hallmark of the Windows Mobile/ Phone platforms that endeared us enterprise users. When Exchange push came to WM5, I said "hasta la vista" to BB and never looked back. As irritating as WM was, it couldn't be beat if you needed your office to come along for the ride. Windows Phone has resurrected my faith in MS as an enterprise device.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
My context was vs iOS and Android. Full Office was recently announced on Symbian devices as well. And yea yea WM was great. I loved how MSN Messenger was just like the pc version. That there was a full blown excel and word. That I could activesync my outlook. But then I remember the services crashing, the freezing, and the battery pulls and I remember why it died.
[Windows Phone 7 General] printing724:
Here's some feedback from the other side of the aisle, and a point no one has commented on. I had a WM Omnia and was quite happy with it once I learned to flash custom ROMs. I then went thru a Fascinate which was the red-headed stepchild of the original Galaxy phones. Now I have a Gnex and am quite happy.

I'm not into the technicalities of why MS pulled the plug on WM, but it was imho a mistake no matter how "bad" the OS was. They had 20% plus share and gave it away. They turned their backs on a large (if fragmented) developer community. Nokia and RIM took their lead from MS and did the same thing. Taking a year from the time you announce the obsolescence of your current platform and introducing the replacement does not work in the face of dynamic competition. All three companies are now struggling in the mobile marketplace.

I used that Omnia hard. I was constantly running out of room on it. That is a not a complaint, but rather a compliment to that phone. I would have stayed with Windows Whatever except that MS abandoned it. Now I have close to 100 apps installed on the Gnex (most are paid, I generally dislike free apps) and use it hard. As intriguing as Windows Phone is, I'm not likely to switch back.

I wish MS luck in mobile. But so far they are throwing bucketloads of money into a boat that refuses to float. And I don't know what they can do to change that. Mobile computing is essential to MS's future yet they haven't figured out how to generate a dime of profit from it. The only thing they've got going for them is a cash machine (Windows and Office) that gives them the ability to not quit trying.
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
No one comments about it because just about every single one of us that used WM feel exactly the same way. MS should have just left 6.1 alone and gone on to WP7. 6.5 was, and is, a disaster from a technical standpoint and a PR standpoint. The UI was not finger-friendly and required too many steps to get anything accomplished. Users felt like MS had just dropped a mobile form of Vista on us and it wasn't going to get better. I am a Mac user as far as my desktop at home but even I admit that Windows 7 is quite different from my past experiences (95, 98, ME, XP). You mention a very valid point in that during the 6.5 rollout a lot of users went elsewhere. I needed Exchange functionality so I went to webOS and stayed there until late last year when I came back to Windows. 5 months in and I must admit that I'm hooked. Office was always my #1 concern and no other platform integrates Office, OneNote, SkyDrive and Sharepoint like WP7, it's that simple. My Hotmail calendar also gives me my to-do's and nobody else does that either.

From a consumer-oriented perspective, I concede that Android and iOS have that area covered in spades. For the enterprise user such as myself, it's WP7 all the way. I don't see MS taking market share away from the big boys anytime soon, but I do believe that RIM is a dead man walking. Blackberry has nothing left to offer except that vaunted FIPS certification but that may not be enough. BTW, I enjoyed reading your post devoid of any homerism or hate, just concise and objective views. Thanks for a refreshing read.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ but RIM is still in third place, with government contracts. They cant be dead.
[Windows Phone 7 General] anseio:
Just because we're optimistic does not mean that we see no errs/errors. What's wrong with deciding that you like something and hanging around for a while... good and bad both?

There is no perfect OS. And even if there were one, are we all mandated to fall in love with it and only it?

It's ok for you to not care about WP7, or whatever. It is not ok, however, to speak as if we're not aware of what we're doing with our phones.
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
What do you think will happen to RIM and those G contracts if Windows Phone, or Apple even, were to get FIPS certification? You're right, RIM is in third because of those contracts.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vnvman:
When those contracts are over, RIM is doomed. They are going completely crazy, they bet all they have on BBOS10 and say that none of the current devices will get updated, not even that friggin Playbook. This will be their final jump: they'll up end selling for a few bucks whatever they'll release in 2012, just like it happened with the Touchpad. Not even an exa-core CEO can save them now :rolleyes:
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
1) notta thing

2) nope

3) didn't say that
[Windows Phone 7 General] napster100:
Just thinking, will our current WP7 devices be upgradeable to the new WP8 coming out? Well the, the WP8 OS?
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
I would have read the link, but I appreciate the summary.

Apple and Samsung account for 99% of the smartphone profits. HTC has the other 1%. That is why LG, Dell, etc would have reason to drop out of the Windows Phone platform. One part their own failures, one part the failures of Windows Phone. But their own failures are the major reason.

Which flows into the next point. Apple, Samsung, and to a much lesser extent HTC are the only ones that are doing anything positive right now. Sony is a dog. Motorola is a dog. And all they do is Android. Surveys show people are happier with iOS than they are with Android. And for good reason. iOS works better than Android, despite being a closed source, less powerful OS. On a per device basis no one has more smartphone sales than iOS. Which brings me to my last point.

The iOS model works better than the Android model. So why on earth should Windows Phone have been more like Android and not, say iOS?

Android is a highly customizable open-source OS available on many phones.

iOS is a highly controlled closed-source OS available on one phone.

So what would be the point of doing the same thing as Android? Microsoft went with:

Windows Phone is a controlled closed-source OS available on many phones.

Microsoft is trying to take one part of what makes iOS successful and mix it with giving consumers handset choices. Android is full of issues. The user experience from one Android phone to another can be so drastically different. Updates are as of right now a nightmare. It is less stable on a whole than the other OSes. Battery life leaves alot to be desired.

Microsoft has done a wonderful job with Windows Phone with regards to the useability of the OS and its standardization. They still have alot of work to do, but the foundation is rock solid. Unlike Android.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ IOS models works because of Apple. Thats the only reason. Saying something works better is opinionated.

Carriers don't like the IOS model, they hate it. They can't make changes to IOS, and they don't control the software. So what makes you think they would like the Windows Phone model?
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Check the news, the government is committed to RIM. So are tons of corporations and other businesses.

Remember RIM market share 3x the size of WP7, so if its a bleak future for RIM then it must be really bleak for Windows Phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
Of course it is opinion and not fact, but fact is surveys show more people are satisfied with iOs vs the rest. And I could link something many times over illustrating this.

I and do not really know how to counter carriers hating the iOS model. Is that true? Why do carriers hate the iOS model? Because they cannot put their crap on the phones? Microsoft is not Apple and their ecosystem is controlled but not as controlled as Apple. Carriers can make apps and put them on the phones presale.

I did a google search on carriers not liking iphone and I found this link, this link which is just carrying the same thing, the wiki, and funny enough your post coming in 4th. But nothing that suggests that carriers do not like the iOS closed-source model. So I question that.

Carriers like things that make them money. Suckering people into contracts make them money. People getting charged thru the rear for data makes them happy. So if they could sell a rock to consumers and charge them high monthly fees they would not care that they cannot modify a rock.

---------- Post added at 06:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:57 PM ----------

In life it is not only where you are, but where you are heading.

RIM is bleeding money, has changed executives often, is the proud owner of tons of disgruntled shareholders, and is seeing its stock value plummet along with its marketshare in the smartphone industry.

Microsoft is rich, is making record profits for Microsoft, and has content shareholders.

That, my fellow Nexus S friend, makes all the difference in the world. Windows Phone is holding a steady, crappy 2%. RIM is sliding down a hill of razor blades with no signs of stopping. If I could be an OS I rather be Windows Phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sylau90:
@Vetvito, haha,i would suggest you just stop explain to these guys or maybe argue, no point to do it. I find it tired months ago.

Just be a happy user of your device, just bought a One X(my 1st android) and sold my Mozart last month,it is just smooth like butter and can do all the things I want.

No doubt at the year end,I would definitely buy another BB10 device.

Just let optimistic wp7 users have this forum, in fact, they already own it. In this forum,you can't have your own thought, be pessimistic and etc.....
[Windows Phone 7 General] thebobp:
The problem is, negative or positive attention? Metro is a great touchscreen UI, but for mouse-based devices, it's more than a little awkward and clunky. Unless microsoft starts pushing for touchscreen computers by the mass, I see exposure to metro helping about as much as exposure to vista.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
The easiest path to being right is to over-exaggerate and counter. That is pretty much what happened there. Vetvito has valid points, to which no one challenged him on. Actually, ironically, Vet's first post as far as I read it was to agree with me that Windows Phone is struggling because it does not offer any compelling reason for a user to switch. I was the only one really engaging Vet and it was not about dillusions of Windows Phone.

There are reasonable, sensible Windows Phone supporters in this forum. The easiest way to pick a fight is to start insinuating that the forum is full of dillusional people that all think Windows Phone is perfect. I mean two fan in this thread alone reiterated Windows Phone is not perfect.

Here is the fundamental problem:

Android owners come into this forum and it disgusts them that there are people out there that hate Android and love Windows Phone. Yes, this sounds sensational and people could never be that petty.

Or maybe be could.

But for the record, the Android forums are also chalk full of blind Fandroids. The difference? Other fandroids believe they are justified. One just isn't allowed to be a Windows fan.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
You can say the same about Nokia, disgruntled share holders and all. Transition phase they call it.

Check here

http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=18887&news=Apple+iphone+microsoft+Windows+phone

And

http://www.imore.com/2012/04/27/iphone-remains-bestseller-spite-carriers/

Microsoft is rich and making tons of money off of Windows, Office, Enterprise and Xbox. Everything else consumer related has been a failure, especially mobile.

If you look at percentages as a whole and not separated like MS fans want you to, MS is losing market share in mobile.

No one separates BBOS 6 and BBOS7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sitizenx:
Please move along. There is nothing to see here.

Lulz using preLumia 900 numbers! Definitely don't want to talk about what is going to be their biggest selling Windows Phone. No way. Jacks up the narrative.

Lulz ignoring the 800 lb Korean gorilla Samsung cooking up several Windows Phone 8 offerings. "LG can't hack it so that means that market is dead says Korean paper." Gee Whadda 'bout Samsung? Silence.

I mean what's the big story today? LG isn't making Windows Phones anymore or Samsung gonna drop a Windows Phone based Note on the world. The first "story" is a nonevent. The second story left me dumbstruck. That's going to be sweet. Only thing is I still snicker at the thought of holding that thing up to my head. :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
Vet, I agree. Microsoft is not rich off Windows Phone. The Xbox 360 was a disaster that they turned around by pouring tons of money into it. 40-60% failure rates, several (at least 6) internal changes, and losing revenue to modders who even found a way temporarily to play copied games on XBL. A disaster. Then it started to lose ground to the PS3 before they introduced the Kinect, which allowed them to tap into the Wii market, one they never had before. Now I am sounding like N8ter :rolleyes:

My point is I rather be underperforming terribly but backed by Microsoft vs RIM right now. I think that is quite clear. Microsoft is absolutely, positively going to stick with it at all costs, just like they did with the console.

Here is what we can agree on:

Windows Phone sales suck.

Microsoft is rich.

Microsoft is committed to making Windows Phone a success.

Here is what we can debate:

Windows Phone will be a success.

I believe that is what separates people on this forum.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Problem is we don't know how high or low MS has set the success bar.

From my perspective, I just see them pouring money in to a platform, just to say they have a mobile OS. Good luck catching Apple, with their long term carrier commitments, and successful devices, that they can now match at every price point.