yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] Miami_Son:
Wow. Utter cluelessness. Maybe it's because they are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole? The devs here are making something from almost nothing. They give us the functionality the manufacturers or carriers think we didn't need or couldn't be trusted with. They do this from bits and pieces with no patterns or jigs. Of course there are problems because there is no roadmap. That's why members need to understand that this is not a place like the corner store where you are getting a finished product. What you get here are almost always works in progress. We get them for free so that our feedback, hopefully, can improve the product. That's why the members need to actually understand what they are doing to their phones. Otherwise, they just end up adding more work to the process. Unfortunately, too many people come in here with the idea that they are getting a shiny, finished thing rather than a developing, evolving one and they don't take the time to figure out the difference before they jump feet first into a process they don't fully comprehend or choose not to. Why anyone would be so cavalier about something as potentially harmful as flashing firmware on a $500+ device is beyond me. It's like expecting to replace the engine in your car yourself without knowing anything about replacing the engine in your car. What this place offers for those willing to make the effort is so much more incredible than what was given us by the manufacturers and carriers I just don't get why people are so resistant to following the simple rules spelled out clearly for them when they joined. I really don't.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] karate104:
I'll start by agreeing with a lot that's been said.

On occasion there is a little too much hostility. I've seen multiple noobs who are doing their best to wade through the enormous amount of information and are actually trying to understand how to do stuff properly, and they get burned for asking an often repeated question, despite asking it intelligently. Personally, especially since I'm a non-dev, I try to gently point these obviously intelligent noobs in the right direction and lend a helping hand. These are the people I think that devs are more welcoming to, even sometimes supportive of.

Nevertheless, there are more often times where a new person logs on, does something stupid without reading carefully, then asks a question because his/her phone is broken in some way. Then five or more other people go and do the exact same thing. It happens, and I think this thread is representative of the different ways different people (i.e. devs, non-devs, old-timers, noobs, etc.) respond to the latter situation.

/end useless part of post

I'd like to bring up a point that hasn't been discussed so far: I have noticed a few "old-timers", people who have been with XDA for much longer than I and a lot of other newcomers/recently active members have. No offense to these people, but some of them seem to act as though their long-standing memberships automatically make them experts on whatever phone they happen to be using at the time, and that in turn apparently gives them the right to flame newcomers or devs who call them out on their stupid mistakes. It's true that they are probably more knowledgeable about certain things. However, because phones change and accordingly the methods we use to modify them change, the supposed expertise of these old-timers can be outdated and sometimes outright wrong. And I've seen some of them act offended when someone calls them out on it. To those people, I'd like to say that just because you've been here forever, does not necessarily mean you are smarter than the rest of us, even the noobs. Some of us noobs may have a better idea about what we're talking about when it comes to certain phones/subjects than you do. All I ask is that you keep that in mind when you post something. Even the best of us can be wrong, but there's nothing bad about being wrong, it's just another opportunity to learn something new!

And finally, to everyone who took the time to read my post, whether you agree or disagree, thanks and have an awesome day. :D

/end ridiculously long post
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] lilbigdude1:
And to add to my earlier post....a prime example, I started out with a captivate. After what I thought was an ample piece of knowledge acquired, I attempted to root and flash custom roms to it, and ended up soft bricking the phone. I didn't blame the dev, it wasn't his fault that I was a dumb ass and skipped a step. What I did was go back researched and fixed it.

Now I have two captivates, one I bought and one I trolled for on eBay that was Supposedly hard bricked, and was able to fix it by READING, and finally my sgs2.

Basically the only person to blame is yourself for your phone not working, there are plenty of simple instructions on how to install ROMs, apps and various other mods.

If your not willing to put in the time why should the devs waste theirs.

sent from my shiny black box
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] howtomen:
Accidental post please delete
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] Phalanx7621:
Thanks Pirate. To those who don't wanna click that link. This guy says it better than I ever could. I almost cried. Its like hez inside my brain.

This was posted by Kyphur in the thread linked above.

"I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.

As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.

Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.

When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.

Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.

The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.

As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.

Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.

XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.

Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.

You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position."

This was posted by Kyphur in the thread linked above.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] SanityPreservation:
As I said before, if you want a developer's forum only with no user input, close the forum for non-developers. Simple really.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] zelendel:
Well Well well look what I find here. Now I see alot of points argued back and forth. Let me put my two sense in here.

When I started on XDA (dont look at the date as I was lurking and reading years before that) I could hardly use a PC let alone mod a phone, but it interested me so I sat down and read, searched, read, searched and read some more. A few years later I joined and starting helping people that showed they put in at least a small amount of effort. While those that didnt bother searching were flamed to the 9 planes of h***. This not only made you look for your answers but also drove you to try and fix it yourself so you could help the dev. This was also needed as the Dev almost never posted in the threads and you were left on your own to find your own fixes. To be honest with the support that devs offer now people have become sloppy and lazy. I saw one post about you dont need to be an expert when your doing this. I hate to tell you but if you think this is true then you are way wrong. You are rewriting the OS of a very pricy piece of equipment. Which once you mod it you except that you no longer have a warrenty. So if you dont take the time to learn everything you can about what your doing then it serves you right when you brick.

People think they can talk to anyone anyway they want, with sheer disrespect for people that spend hours upon hours to make something that they decide to share for free nor are they required to give you any support for it. This is not a support forum. This is not a help me make my phone cool forum. This is a development site. If you are not here to learn how to develop then guess what. Your doing it wrong. Now I was allowed myself to speak without holding my tounge. Click my banner and read it.

It is not that we want a developers fourm, That is what this is. If you dont like it then by all means. There is the door
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] Fusion777:
Such an interesting discussion...

I've been a developer since 1993. In that time, it never fails to surprise me how much non developers think they know about writing software. I'll spare you the war stories and get to the point - as mentioned before this forum is run by developers for anyone who wants to come and play.

1. If you don't like the instructions, do what the devs do. Create additional / clarifying / better ones. Submit it to the original dev so the OP can get updated with your gem. If that's beyond your skill it's ok, but it does disqualify you from whining about it. if you're not willing to improve it, why would you expect someone else to... For free?

2. If you notice a bug and your exhaustive search has not revealed something, DO share it. But first have an understanding how to create a useful bug report. Believe it or not, we LOVE a very informative bug report. Do not criticize. Devs hate bugs as much anyone else but they'll let you rot with that **** to spite you and your bad attitude. I know I have, and would again.

3. Nubs get razzed. That's how it works. The alpha males here are the dudes making the roms. Deal with it. You don't have to come here, you could just rock out on the appleinsider.com forums and dream of the next iOS update. But you don't . You come here eagerly anticipating the next juicy tidbit from these guys.

4. If you don't like the quality of the ROM/kernel, you can always demand your money back.

5. Entitlement is your enemy, especially in the hacker/open source community. I'm not saying kiss ass, but show respect. Heeding the very clear rules of XDA is an excellent start on the respect route.

6. To the people who think shutting down this forum is a good idea... Seriously? The very fact you are here posting/agreeing is ironic at best. Nobody's forcing you to stay... Or is there some Chinese XDA internment camp we don't know about....

7. Lastly, devs are humans. Sometimes just like anyone else they are dicks. That's not a failing of XDA, devs, android or the stupid battery you just purchased - it's between you and the dev and you definitely should remove his **** off your phone if you don't like him. But don't keep coming back with demands and criticism. That makes you look like the biggest nub of all.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] Nick281051:
^I like this guy. Everyone should read that.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] Phalanx7621:
They don't want that. As previously stated. But this is a developers forum. Not a help desk. And as stated 2 or 3 posts above mine here, there is no problem with submitting bug reports. But learning how to make a useful one is key. Logs, dumps, info on why u think its ROM related. Stuff like that. Hopefully we can all work together to see this community continue to grow and flourish. That's what id like to see anyway. Good luck all, happy flashing.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] Miami_Son:
Your all-or-nothing approach is so off target it isn't funny. Nobody wants to shut anyone out of XDA. All we want is for them to understand what this place is about and to follow the rules. Like I say all the time, this is NOT the (insert your phone here) help desk. It is a repository of information and, just like a library, if you keep pestering the librarians to find books for you instead of learning how to use the card catalog yourself, you'll just end up pissing them off. Simple, really.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] AcmeWidgets:
It seems to me that the ones who enjoy being condescending to others are not actually the developers. (The developers (one's who are actually creating ROMs) are too busy developing!) They (the developers) depend on user feedback to find the bugs.

I fully appreciate what they do! I fully realize one does not have to pay. (Even thought I've contributed through paypal.) It is true that some act hasty about bug fixes and/or adding features to ROMs. A gentle reminder through PM that this is a free service is all that is needed. Not some drawn out back and forth drama queen pissing contest that gets sometimes useful threads locked.

In fairness, Android has been marketed as the OS that is supposed to be highly modifiable and user friendly. I think some are expecting it to be easy. (In my opinion rooting Android is more difficult than jailbreaking Iphone or adding custom ROMs to Blackberry.) Some come on here with the quick easy fix mentality.

And I respectfully disagree on one point.....In my opinion this IS a place to come to make your phone "neat and kewl." Why else write custom ROMs? Why develop? I use my phone extensively as a tool for work. But, I also love music and other entertainment features. The developers write the ROMs I occasionally give user feedback and opinions. I admire their work and wish I had the time and resources to develop myself. I am slowly but surely learning. And when I get to the point of developing my own ROM; You can bet your bottom dollar that I want others' to enjoy it, and I'll be depending on their feedback.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] :
Well, yes and no. This is the place to come to, to LEARN how to make your phone "neat and kewl" and allow you to learn how to do that to your own phone. This is not the place to "place an order" and expect people to do it for you and then complain if there is a bug or two.

Thats the difference. This place is a mountain of information for people to learn how to do it for themselves... but its turned into (for the most part) a place where people come and take the work of others (admittedly its free) but then complain because its not to their liking or something dosent function the way they want it to.

The Devs here are kind enough to share their work with the public. They dont have to. They delevop for their own needs and their own equipment, then share it in case someone else wants their work too... but they do NOT develop and cater to hundreds of people with different requests, and I think this is where the lines get crossed because the common user dosent understand this point.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] Miami_Son:
Contrary to popular belief, I don't enjoy it. I do it because it needs to be done and as a former Marine and biker I have no problem getting in someone's face that deserves it, virtually or literally. There is a certain benefit to public flogging as a deterrent to others. Remember the stocks of old? We have simply brought them into the internet age.:D
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] zelendel:
As states above this is the place to learn to do it. Not a place to have it done for you.

As for why would they do it. For the same reason they did it before most people even knew what a smartphone was. To learn and to make THEIR devices the way they want it. You have to remember that they don't do this for the benefit of others but for themselves and then they decide to share.

The feeling that without users there would he no developers that I see around is getting really old. This never has been the case and never will be. Developers will still make things for themselves and others. Even if people don't use them. It is all about self improvement by learning and applying what one learned.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] ntorresla:
It depends on the phone...

You may want to take a look at the stickies on Samsung infuse on Android development.... They are awesome explained... Nice environment for noobs over there...

Saludos desde Ecuador
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] docskurlock:
So much of what these guys say is true. I'll admit,the first couple of times I asked stupid questions, that had I read I would have figured out. Now, I spend more time reading than writing. I've learned so much from task and all these other guys and it's not even from asking, but from reading the thread. New people definitely have to learn to stop, read, and then read some more, and then ask. Kudos to you red and fusion.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] Phalanx7621:
Completely right. Reading helps a lot, and if I may ADD....just experiment! U know how I solved 3/4 of my problems back when I first started out here? Trying new stuff on my own. Looking through my phone and searching Google for answers. I know how rough it is when u first start this journey. But learn as much as u can. And like others have said,....sorry to those who are just here for a quick fix and don't care how anything works but if that's yer attitude yer in the wrong place.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] Dux302:
I agree with this. maybe a small aptitude test to post in the developers forum. That could be helpful even with the people who do have enough posts. That might help on the laziness and weed out some. Just a thought...

Guilty!! But if I ever learn enough would love to share...
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] Dux302:
Ha!

Maybe a bit excessive but funny... :)
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] :
Well that was uncalled for...
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] pokey9000:
I'm just gonna leave this right here.

Amazon Kindle->Kindle Fire->This is what you people sound like. [Humor] No, seriously.

In all seriousness, I wonder what is going through people's minds when they write a New Thread and blatantly ignore the big fat similar threads dialog.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] karate104:
Well honestly, nobody here wants to help you do anything. That's kind of the previous posters' point: you should be able to figure it all out on your own if you read enough. All the info you need to at least get started flashing custom ROMs is linked in the one sticky at the top of every forum in this section, and I and most people here believe it's more than enough to help users figure out what to do and how to do it. If they need it, more info can be gained by searching XDA or using Google.

The point is that this is not a tech support forum. It never was meant to be that. It's a developers forum that now has gained the side function of being like a self-help library, i.e. you come here, read up, figure out how to do whatever it is you want to do, use the tools provided here to do it, then do it. If you have problems, then look up more references and figure out what you did wrong and try again.

It's not that we don't want to be helpful, it's that we don't want to answer questions that have already been answered. The answers to most of those questions are easily found in the links in the sticky. If you have a question that isn't answered by said references, then you have a more legitimate reason to post (not always true mind you).
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] Miami_Son:
Would you call the author of a recipe and complain that they didn't cook it for you? That's pretty much what goes on in here. Nice people provide the necessary information and the lazy ingrates complain anyway. I'm amazed we still have developers at all.:confused:
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] Phalanx7621:
I'm very happy to have this site. Without XDA it would have taken me a lot longer to get where I am. But as previously stated, some people just don't wanna learn. They want to flash something cool. But they don't bother reading. Well for more than 5 minutes. Cause they think it should be easier. "Make this site more noob friendly!!" Rofl. Ummm no. It already IS. Can u imagine if the devs just posted their work and expected us to actually know what to do with it? No instructions or FAQs. Oh. And no flash able zip either. Yeh. Can u imagine? Cause that's what they could do. They already pretty much say "here ya go". It is noob friendly here. But u gotta use common sense as well or it doesn't matter how much information is here.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] Miami_Son:
Thank you. My cooking analogy was a little short. Not only do they give us the recipes, they also provide the ingredients. Anyone who still has complaints needs to delete their account and look elsewhere.;)
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] :
Thats why we have all these kitchens here to cook up the roms.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] Karashta:
15 year olds know how to cook? Crazy...

sent from my magic shiny box using the tap tap tap
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] joshyy_rey:
I remember when I started here on XDA, with my Vibrant. I was afraid to ask questions because if it was dumb, you would get eaten alive. I liked that, forced me to read,read,read and to be very careful. Now i can pretty much handle myself. If reading and searching is too hard for you...i suggest you do what i saw in one of my favorite XDA. Someone asked "Helpppp i tried to root now I'm in boot loop pleaseeeee hellpppppp!!!!" and someone responded "take your battery out. now leave it there. Problem solved" lol:D
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] Phalanx7621:
Rofl my favorite thing to suggest is to buy an iPhone haha. I really feel for the people who honest to God search and search and can't find their answers, but maybe they don't always search for the correct words? We need to set up "Google for Dummies" videos haha. (Not implying someone is dumb, I was relating it to those "books for dummies" that walk u through stuff).
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777] yahoowizard:
Meh, w/e. I just felt like the randomest threads get locked sometimes. It's how this:

was locked because:

Free 50GB Dropbox storage for SGSIII

I was pretty excited at the potential of it (maybe I just don't understand how it all works, but I guess I assumed there was a way to trick the Market into thinking we had a Galaxy S3 by changing build.prop or something of the sort) but after it got locked, I saw the reason and understood that we're not allowed to talk about Galaxy S3 stuff in here, which I wasn't happy about, yet it was the rules of the forum, I guess. But then, I see this:

Samsung galaxy s3 specs revealed !!! which is allowed to stay for some reason or another, and is just a little >.> at all the threads being locked (not the HELP ME PLEEEASE ones, but the other ones). This wasn't the only instance I've seen this happen, and just wish rules were a bit more consistent