yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] 1stichiban:
Porting to PRO

maybe this and this could help you out :good:
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] attiamena:
help

when i use any ics rom the battery is run out too fast "specially at voice calls" :confused: but in GB roms it is berfect :good:

any one know how to solve this problem !!

i tried Viper Xperia & Zelly Cream & jelly dream and xperia t rom on my xperia pro mk16i

i use vengancy & lupus and arcnight

thanx all
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] 1up_:
What kernel?
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] StuiWooi:
Thanks for this great repository, it's well laid out and easy to read!
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] seventhworl:
Does anyone know which ROM supports auto corrections apart from OMEGA with hardware keyboard on MK16i?

Even when i tick box in options...

Just flashed with Zelly Cream but that feature dosent work :(

Thanks!
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Artanis02:
I feel ya.

We hope that jader (and others) listens to us here and gets all the feedback.

I'm trying to point out any errors i encounter to make the rom better.

Jader mentioned version 3.1, lets hope he includes autocorrection for physical as well.
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] seventhworl:
yeah that would be great, only Rom with working autocorrection I found so far is omega, but its not so great for games, do you know any other which features spelling corrections? and what jader Rom you have on mind? thx
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Artanis02:
It's UHD 3.0.2 (Ultimate HD). Try it and support the devs ;)

From what i know the best roms are Zelly Cream, Viper Xperia, Xperia T Rom, and the one i mentioned above.

I dont have the nerves to try them all, i use UDH and its great, though everything has its flaws.
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] seventhworl:
thats great, I ll try it soon, thanks, hopefully autocorrection will be working there, what are flaws of UHD in your opinion?

I tried zelly cream, jelly dream, and viper, to be honest I tried most of them and maybe at some point I ll try to make one myself which combines all of them, that will be awesome if develpoers could connect their ROMs in one mega awesome

anyway do you know why other ROMs even if they support device, they dont support hardware keyboard autocorrection typos?

thanks
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Artanis02:
UHD doesn't have the autocorrection :(

Well, that may be because most roms are for Arc/S and only due to the similarities of the phones, there is a port for {Pro}, but the keyboard get omitted sometimes, it's important to give feedback.

The flaws with UHD in my opinion are: (im not being rude right now, that's just what i think)

- animations and transitions get choppy sometimes and the delay of autorotate is too long in my opinion (lag, or you have to wait quite a bit to get to some settings etc - i thought i flashed rom in the wrong way, because everybody says that the rom flies, i will reflash everything at some point to see it i f***** up somewhere :D )

- when you slide the physical keyboard to close, the autorotate doesn't go back to portrait like in stock.

- control of music player through smart key at stock headset isn't working properly

- Dead Space crashes when i enter the game (haven't redownloaded though)

(maybe im just picky, but it's the little thing that are cool about android, so i'd love to see them work good)
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] seventhworl:
Yeah you right it dosent have, thats shame because ROM itself its a masterpiece, maybe apart from messeging, i cant stand white background and its a waste of battery power, but would love to be able to use it with fully supported keyboard, maybe at some point it will be updated with that feature, meawhile i ll stay with Omega.

Artanis where i can download Lupus V13; I was looking trough forum but cant find it, i am on V12 would like to update,

THANKS!
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Artanis02:
Xperia 2011s have led backlit screen so white background on messaging does not affect battery life ;) only if u had OLED (AMOLED/SAMOLED/SAMOLED666 - or whatever are the names) then it would do sth since if the background is black (and black only) then individual pixels are not lit so they use less power (btw. that's why OLED has better black colors).

Nevertheless, it would be great to have back themed sms app :)

I just checked, LuPuS released v14, im trying it out :)

It's here:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1827390

If You want to find anything look in the 1st post of the thread "Complete list of roms..." (for pro).(That is this thread). There is a kernel list, LuPuS is there ;)

(Seems like a week ago someone told me everything im telling you :))
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] lo2ay:
For all of you complaining about auto correction, just flash this zip file.

it's the xperia keyboard from iyokan stock ICS ROM. It will work on almost every stock based ROM. I can confirm that it's working on UHD :)
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Artanis02:
Funny thing is that had this file on my pc since i unlocked BL, but i forgot to flash it :D

Works 100% :)

Thx
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] seventhworl:
thanks!!! i will try it later tomorrow, do you know does it work with zelly cream? also i would like to change messaging for black background in UHD is there any way to do that?

also i flashed new lupus kernel v14, thanks Artanis!
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] lo2ay:
it will work on all stock based ICS roms. Dunno about the messaging app.

But make a backup before installing. You may have some problems like messing up the keyboard if it's not a QWERTY layout.
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] seventhworl:
so you mean every room which is based on ICS 4.0.4 with .587?

already tried, and you right dont work on zelly, only stock, also after flashing keyboard zip on UHD, nothing changed, its weird because sometimes typos dont work, even on stock ROM, software keyboard stays on screen even when I am typing with hardware, strange because. that happened before and at some point fixed itself, is that some kind of bug?
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] mikemend:
Working this update with stock kernel (.587) with locked bootloader? Or just install ROM with CWM, and that's it (without kernel and modules)? I have an authentication problem with Wifi (cannot connect to my router) under 4.0.4 and I hope this rom will be fix this.
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Steven Seagal:
New Kernel ¡¡¡

3.4-nAa-02 [14/5/2013] - Unified kernel + CWM Recovery

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2273011
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] ahmed.gunz:
good job

awsome work :laugh:
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Steven Seagal:
New MOD ....

[PORT /PATCH][JB] SONY Xperia

2013 Patch ROM FOR 4.1. 2 & 4. 2.2

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=41422899

Enviado desde mi Xperia Pro usando Tapatalk 2
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] atmos929:
it's the same kernel that was already posted, but apparently developer just created the separate forums for each device
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] HIGKILLER:
Really good :D

Thats a really good topic
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] rad30n:
Thanks!

I use UHD 3.0.2, and still missing a keyboard layout selector, as my keyboard is qwertz (german xperia pro). Does anyone have a keyboard with layout picker installable on roms based on the sony ics fw?
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] AnaRelentless:
What to doooo?

Hello guys! I'm new to all this Rom testing thing. I'm here mainly because my phone booted twice in less than 10 mins with CM10. I also noticed the keyboard bug which is a bit annoying. I'm really happy that people are working constantly in Iyokan Roms. I didn't expect that. So Thumbs up everyone who works on this :D

I'm having a hard time choosing which rom to install now... If just go for CM10 latest update or what. Also, if I read right... it is possible to use another Kernel than the one that the Rom comes with, to run a rom? Because I usually use the ones that come in the "pack". If so. is there a better kernel for CM10?

I really hope that Sony fixes this HDMI nonsense... or release a better version of xperia pro with more ram, internal memory and better CPU <3 that would be a dream come true! I really love this model.

The use I give to my phone is basic. I do a lil bit of everything. Take pics, listen to music, play games, browse bacon reader lol, and of course txting and calls (but with much lower use). I don't really edit videos or things like that. Maybe this helps to suggest which Rom to use.

Thanks again for the help!
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Artanis02:
To start off with HDMI, in JB it will never be fixed, as Sony never made JB for Mk16i (and never will). (Yes, sad)

Next Xperia Pro, well... Sony does not plan to make one bacause market does not require it, if You want something else with more power, You can try, DROID 4 or Captivate Glide. (nothing else from Sony :( )

When a next gen Xperia Pro comes out, You bet i'll be getting it :)

When it comes to choosing a rom, You have to try them Yourself, as every rom feels diferent.

Some roms with all features (ICS) are:

Xperia Ultimate HD 3.0.2 (see my signature) !!! Don't install 3.1 as it is in beta and most things does not work with MK16i. !!! (Great rom with great features and performance) (recommended Kernels are: LuPuS (lastest v14), Vengance and Radeon. (see first post in this topic)

Viper Xperia

Zelly Cream

About kernels, i think that every kernel will either work on a particular rom, or it won't and there is no harm in trying. (Unless Kernel is for GB or ICS and You try it on JB, them there is not point in trying)

Each rom has a recommender kernel somewhere in the first three posts of the thread about them.

Useful Links:

Xperia UHD ROM

Viper Xperia ROM

Zelly Cream ROM

LuPuS Kernel Stock Based (NOTE: this link is best for Stock based roms = NOT FOR CM9 / CM10)

LuPuS Kernel CM9

LuPuS Kernel CM10

Vengance Kernel

Radeon Kernel

Remember not to hit thanks if i did not help ;)
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] AnaRelentless:
Thanks for your suggestions. I'll check that out. I guess I'll have to try them all... I'm just not confident on all the flashbooting thing yet, that's why I asked. I don't want to mess up my phone
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Artanis02:
Don't worry, i was hesitating too, but it's the best thing i've done :)

All You need to do is unlock BL, flash kernel with fastboot (drag and drop method) and flash rom (zip) from CWM.

If You want detailed explanation, send a PM to me :)
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Baeta_BR:
Any good mod ou app camera for gb? I´m using atg7
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Artanis02:
Why not switch to ICS ?

Most roms already have cyber shot.
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Baeta_BR:
ufed ojacks

the only problem that I can´t make de "Ç" works on my qwerty. Even editing "keyprint.xml" file using root explorer. Its look like don´t have pt-br on fisical keyboard.
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Artanis02:
Have You tried this ?
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Baeta_BR:
I will know. Tanks :good:
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Baeta_BR:
I installed UHD wifi lupus kernel v14. But the wifi does not work. Already reset the phone, but nothing.

EDIT: Fixed. wipe dalvik cache, know works
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Artanis02:
Remember to always wipe cache and dalvik cache after flashing stuff.

Albo flash wifi modules when getting a new ROM or kernel.

If it still doesn't work, reset Your phone a few times.

:)
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] srihari210:
Do u want to see a SPEED, BEAUTIFUL, GAMING, GOOD BATTERY, ENHANCED AUDIO OPTIONS, JB 4.2 CAMERA by Rizal, CUSTAMIZABLE, CM10 JB Rom, then, you should check our Latest Aroma Version of LenO Rom

This is the changelog I can remember:

==========================

LenO Universal PATCH for FXP

============================

1. Latest GPU Drivers

2. Beats V5 (Recent Release)

3. Bravia (No Bravia2 as sharpness and color is too high and heavy battery drain. I think, Bravia 1 is all good for us)

4. LenO Core apps

5. Latest YOUTUBE with Downloader

6. Latest Playstore

7. FM package in Aroma (For Gaming you can delete this. 'coz, this process takes 30MB of RAM)

8. JB 4.2 Camera (by Rizal. This mod is not completely done. If you want this, dont use PureXaudio in my Aroma)

9. Keyboard Xperia

10. Keyboard Android 4.2

11. TouchWiz launcher

12 Zeam Launcher

13. Light Gapps

14. BlackBerry 10 lockscreen

15. Xperia Z lockscreen

14. CM10 Lockscreen

15. With onscreen buttons and Mass storage

16. Leno MMS

17. FXP MMS

18. Xperia MMS

19. Playstation

20. PureX audio. (I feel it better than Clear Audio)

21. Super Charger

21. Supremacy Script

22. Xloud and all other Leno Stuff

23. Thmems: XPERIA

24. LENO Theme

25. Samsung S3 Theme

26. CM10...

Forum Thread: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1940511

Im sure, you cant Expect more than this from CM10.

Few users already Tried and got very good results... So, did u???
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Baeta_BR:
Does not work. Any idea?
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] atmos929:
New GB ROM... x-stronger

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2271747

:)

---------- Post added at 08:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:11 AM ----------

and this one... ICS ROM Arcatarc's Superleggera

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2281279
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Artanis02:
Sorry, im using polish ver. so i can't help You.

Try looking for someone in Your situation.
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] atmos929:
Ameer... Superleggera is ICS, not JB :).

Thanks for adding though.
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] ameer1234567890:
Rectified. Thanks for notifying.
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] atmos929:
one more... JB rom... Xperia 2013 patch... :)

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2278959
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] beavermml:
no deep sleep when using MiUI v5

j have installed fusion 5.5 kernel with MIUI v5 but i experienced huge battery drain.. my phone wont entered deep sleep mode when i check with cpu spy..

is this a bug for the rom or not?
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Artanis02:
Check CPU governors maybe :confused:

Or reflash again, make sure You downloaded everything completely :)
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] atmos929:
fusion 5.5 is battery drainer... 5.4 is better... get the modded 5.4 from MIUI thread though...
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] beavermml:
but to use MiUI rom i need fusion 5.5.. as stated in the forum.. btw i fix mine.. it seems whenever i got unread messages... the phone will not sleep.. maybe it is a bug? it is frustrating when i recieved messages at night when i sleep
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] atmos929:
MIUI developer created a modded version of Fusion 5.4 in order to support his ROM, it is still available in the first post in MIUI thread where it says "old versions and mirror of these kernels here".

Fusion developer then integrated these changes to his official Fusion 5.5 release... which is why Fusion states that only 5.5 supports MIUI.

Just go to MIUI thread and get the modded fusion 5.4.

I don't know about that bug, you should ask in MIUI thread.
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] atmos929:
Lupus developer decided to create a separate stock GB kernel!! Lupus GB!

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2295062
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] beavermml:
just flashed 5.4 and i lose my wifi even after wipe cache.. is cache and dalvik cache different? im going back to 5.5 to get wifi..
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Artanis02:
Don't be so quick about that, try rebooting 3-5 times, and flashing modules again and again.

It worked for me on LuPuS :)
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] atmos929:
I just had issues with Wifi on MIUI 5, Fusion 5.4... solved it with the correct modules.

This is Kernel repository from MIUI, the one I told you about...

Get the Fusion 5.4 kernel and the Fusion modules 5.4 as well... I wiped dalvik after that and they worked afterwards...

Cache and Dalvik are differnet, but I can't remember what they are... I just know that cleaning cache restarts some of my aps as if they were just installed, and is not necessary... cleaning Dalvik is necessary after flashing a kernel, it should be the only wipe you do when flashing kernel.
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] beavermml:
thx.. the wifi work perfectly after i flash 5.4 + modules + wipe dalvik.. and it seems wifi is much more faster to connect to.. before this it took a couple of seconds to connect to the router when i toggle the wifi, now it seems to be in a instant..

will have to test for a couple of days.. i really love the MiUI roms.. came from FXP extended but the smoothness never amazed me like MIUI did.
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] noucannothaveapony:
PA seems to be continued

I contacted the OP of http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2095361 and he told me updates will resume once he gets updated PA source.

Unfortunately I'm not allowed to post this directly in the developing thread.
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] aliriyahi:
The Best Rom mk16 ?

Hi, I wanna a stable, super fast, super free mem. ,great working ROM , and kernel for mk16

please help me...thanks freinds...:)
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Artanis02:
(Before anyone kills You for being so demanding and a little too cocky let me tell You that You should read this thread and links in the first post of this thread first)

Nontheless:

Couple of choices are:

- Ultimate HD ROM (ONLY 3.0.2, not 3.1) + LuPuS Kernel (last ver.)

- Viper Xperia ROM + Vengance Kernel or Radeon Kernel

- Zelly Cream ROM + Vengance or Radeon

- Xperia T Original ROM + "read the thread of the ROM for a kernel because i dont know"

ALL LINKS ARE IN THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD SO DON'T ASK US TO GIVE THEM TO YOU :)
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] AceFire6:
Choices

Hello

I just rooted my phone yesterday and I flashed the latest stable CM Rom from the CM website. (CM 7.2)

I wish to upgrade to CM9 or CM10. I read through their threads and they seem to have quite a few bugs.

I don't mind which I eventually have. I would just like to get the one with the most features working and the fewest bugs.

Based on that which one should I choose? Or are there other Roms that you would recommend instead.

Thank you
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] noucannothaveapony:
CM10 should be fine

If you want most features for daily driver I recommend CM10 by FXP highly. I do not think there are any bugs a casual user will notice and full JB 4.1.2 experience. For gaming my choice is X-Gamer. Lightest Rom I used so far but it's Gingerbread.

I use CM10.1 as my daily driver but it's waay buggy so not very adviserable at the beginning.
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] atmos929:
I am using Fusion 5.4 with Unnofficial CM10.1, build 20130525... this build is stated to be the latest most stable release as of now, as newest ones have some issues... I am using it and I am VERY happy with it... fastest build I've tried, great multitasking... only drawback I've found is that bluetooth doesn't work... but I rarely use it :)
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] AceFire6:
Thanks noucannothaveapony and atmos929.

I think I'll go with what you're using atmos929. I never use Bluetooth so that isn't a problem for me. :)

Thank you
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] atmos929:
One last thing, just in case you didn't know already... GB and ICS ROMs are stock based... this means they are made based on the original ROMs released by Sony, and all features are more likely to work as Sony intended.

Sony did not release a JB update for 2011 xperias including our PRO... this means that all JB roms you will find are based on Cyanogen (FXP), this includes CM10 and CM10.1... and for this reason, HDMI does not work because of lack of drivers for JB for it.

Also keep in mind that the physical keyboard works, SYM button somewhat works but the symbols/smileys window it brings is different, developers managed to implement something. Also there are no notifications icons that indicate you if you have SHIFT or FUNC (blue square) active/locked.

All this applies to all CM10/10.1 roms. If all this is ok with you, you'll have a rather nice experience.

Cheers
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] AceFire6:
Thanks for the heads up. That all sounds fine though, I don't really look for the func/shift indicators anyway.

The last thing I need find out is how much space JB will take up on the internal memory. Do you have an estimate or know where I can find out?

Thanks :)
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] atmos929:
depends on ROM and if they feature being slim and debloated... you'll have to look in each ROM's thread... It will depend a lot in how many features they wish to integrate.

GB roms are best at being debloated though...
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] atmos929:
new JB ROM, Ultra Slim CM10
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] mrigancb:
Flashed official ICS on my pro.. battery draining very fast... used to get double the usage time even with the freexperia ICS CM9... Nothing seems to be broken so far .. also it is slowwww with 5k+ contacts and 3k+ sms
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] I.Am.J:
do you have the original Xperia Keyboard for Xperia Pro? please upload it...

i flash that themes, then textinput-tng.apk is replaced by Xperia S NXT keyboard so when i use "sym" on my keyboard, i can't scroll down the pop up... :(
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] tagilbo:
I have this ROM (MK16i 4.1.B.0.431 (Baltic / Europe Keyboard Layout)) on my MK16i type phone.

I tried to root with DooMLoRD_v4_ROOT-zergRush-busybox-su app.

Here is the command prompt list: pastebin.ca/2157882

Not exactly the normal way function of the app Is'nt ?

But what can be the problem?

edit: sorry for the crying, i figured it out
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] ameer1234567890:
For all those having keyboard mapping issues, I have made a thread with CWM flashable zips for each keyboard layout.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1690889
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] RiCi12:
I noticed battery drain too.

I was using stock kernel and stock 2.3.4 rom, with smartassv2 added by me, and it was great.

official ics drains my battery too fast, probably i will go back to 2.3 waiting for cyanogenmod (that is smoother than stock ics), hoping that they fix all bugs and battery problems
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Kiwyxda:
Keyboarb layout can be changed without flashing a file.

If you don't have recovery, it can be usefull.

here's the instruction.

I made this post because I never found the solution else where.

change your physical keyboard layout without flashing
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] I.Am.J:
bro can u upload the textinput-tng.apk from system/app... because i messed up with it, and forgot to backup... :(
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] ameer1234567890:
Are you using stock ROM?
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Barleyman:
Your link is messed up. anyways, yes, you can go and edit the file directly but flashing a package is somehow easier for many people. somehow cwm is not getting the love it deserves with xperia.
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] I.Am.J:
yup.. stock 4.1.B.0.431 Baltic... then i use theme from http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1601498 and the zip is replacing the original textinput-tng.apk to the Xperia XNT textinput-tng.apk...

so.. when I use the keyboard and press "sym" it show the smyley & symbol pop up, but i can't scroll down the pop up... :(
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Kiwyxda:
I do love cwm, but it 's not as usable as on htc(I used to have a DZ).

The problem is you can't flash any rom from cwm on xperia you almost always need to flash the appropriate kernel from computer first.

And it's not easy to find kernel with integrate cwm.

edit: thanks for the messy link report --> Fixed
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] Riyal:
Hi guys! Sorry for the lack of updates. Anyways will be releasing a ICS version of Ultima Kernel maybe later today or tomorrow. Finally have it fully running. Still under testing from my own device at the moment :)
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] naveen88:
Awesome.....eager to try it out :-D
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] ameer1234567890:
I have sent you a PM with file.
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] I.Am.J:
wow... thank you very much bro.... :D
[Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo, Pro] 1stichiban:
hi,

i just saw this thread a modded CM9 http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1695236.

Maybe worth checking out...