yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HTC One X] Bossk128:
Well, I donwloaded my unlock.bin as soon as I got my HOX, in the off chance they stopped providing that service. I still haven't unlocked the bootloader, and I'd be very interested if they would refuse to repair my handset under warranty in this situation.

They MUST have a way to establish whether the bootloader has been unlocked and relocked, such as e-fuses someone mentioned earlier. If not and I am in this situation, I'd look forward to a legal argument!
[HTC One X] pnnorth:
I assume you'd have to suffer a loss before you could sue them, probably via the small claims court(or equivalent if outside the UK).

We could do with a standard form letter that we could all use to bombard the various consumer groups etc.
[HTC One X] lostunsunghero:
They do have a way, if you try to re-lock then it will come up as a re-locked device. This is the reason many of us want S-off to protect ourselves against a bricked device either through faulty manufacturing or through user fault (although the user fault is probably only in 1% of cases as most s-off devices can be restored from a bricked state)

With s-off you should be able to re-lock the device without any signs of it ever being unlocked.

At least thats my understanding of it. I may be completely wrong.
[HTC One X] Jagerzero:
This topic makes me sad reading it.

Most responsible buyers would check their device before/at/just after purchase. If the first thing you did was unlock the bootloader, fully well knowing it may void your warranty then 2 hours later your phone levitates and plays nursery rhymes backwords you kinda have yourself to blame for that.

XDA has countless posts stating the potential issues. This does not excuse HTC from giving us subpar devices but we all have a responsibility as consumers.

What pissed me off the most is there is no way to please most of you people. When HTC decided to lock the bootloaders everyone on XDA went into a rage and HTC did something you would never see Samsung and Apple doing. They gave us the option of unlocking it. They simply added a clause saying it may void your warranty and everyone is in an uproar. Tell me, was it better when our bootloaders was locked?

We developers/modders/hackers, whatever we call ourselves are in the very small minority. Out of everyone I know that owns an Android only me and another roots our devices. Try asking the average Joe what rooting is. I do not blame HTC for voiding warranties if we unlock cause honestly we are unlocking to tamper with the device. If a button falls off then fine, they should fix it regardless of unlocking status but if I can't change my ringtone I sure as hell wouldn't fix it as a defect if I were them. I'd assumed the owner messed it up somehow being able to flash ROMS and modify system files.

I currently own 3 Android tablets and 3 Android phones. I change them with the seasons so I've owned a lot. I frequent the respective forums for each to see what's new everyday. Check the first few pages for the LG Nitro General thread. You'll see at least 2 posts saying "Help, I've bricked my device". There are two threads on the first page about recovering from a brick right now. I'll end my point there.

Sorry for this extremely long post but this actually annoys me.

P.S. I haven't heard of any major lawsuits against HTC about them "breaking the law" by voiding warranties. Maybe one of you who is fed up of this should file one and let us know how it turns out.
[HTC One X] abc27:
No you don't. If I didn't cause a fault, the only person to blame for it is HTC.

For our own actions, yes. For the flawed manufacturing practices of HTC, no.

Leave Apple out of this.

As for saintly HTC giving their apparently worthless customers the ability to unlock the bootloader they themselves locked (For no good reason) I point you to Samsung. They don't have S-OFF or S-ON. You just get ODIN and Download Mode and you're free to do as you like.

If a company "assumes" things based on the assumption that the person you're dealing with is incompetent then it says quite a lot about the company.

That's because I highly doubt they'd actually try to pull that trick on someone in practice.
[HTC One X] fstluxe:
Guys,

We could keep this discussion up for years,or we could try to find a solution that makes us Happy.

We Should do everything we can to support the S-OFF development.

I know there are some poeple working on it, But we might be able to speed that process up by:

1-Starting a Bounty topic for the people that manage getting S-Off

2- Donating some money so the devs could by a S-off device.

and so on...
[HTC One X] chrisnash:
Here here
[HTC One X] Mcyates:
Here I my reply after asking about warranty:

Why would they want my IMEI, so they can mark the phone as rooted?
[HTC One X] JeckyllHavok:
Flood here:

http://blog.htc.com/2012/04/your-phone-your-thoughts-tell-us-what-you-think/
[HTC One X] f4flake:
If you're based in Europe they are talking ****e.

Tell them they have to repair the phone, under warranty. Any suggestions otherwise is illegal.

And push to "return it to factory" state is inertia selling and also illegal.

They will be trying this on in every territory.
[HTC One X] BenPope:
I meant PAC!
[HTC One X] gonzo99:
I don't think that's a particularly good analogy. Noone is suggesting that HTC should repair FOC a software problem that has been caused by loading a custom ROM. However, if they are trying to use the fact a phone has been unlocked to avoid fixing a manufacturing problem, like the yellow spots or loose screen, then that is not reasonable and SHOULD be criticised.

If I buy a car and then fit an aftermarket alarm system, which messes with the automatic door locking, then I would expect the warranty to be at least limited. If the windscreen cracks because of a manufacturer's defect...not so much

Then I'm not sure what makes you so sad - that seems to be what almost everyone else is arguing...

In my case I am finding that the GPS is unusuable due to erratic and changing fixes. There are several fixes around that are simple to impliment, but they require root. Currently, the only way I can get root is to unlock the bootloader.

If I go ahead and unlock the bootloader, and in 3 months the screen develops yellow spots, is that my fault? Is it reasonable for HTC to say 'tough, your problem?'

Modders and XDAers are in the minority, but that is all the more reason to keep them on side. On the whole they are more likely to be vocal about HTC to their friends. Keep them happy, and they will do your advertising for you, telling their friends what a great company HTC is and how great their phones are.

Annoy them unnecessarily and again they will be vocal, but in a bad way.

Compare that to the actual number of non hardware defects returns that HTC would actually get if they were more reasonable, and ask whether it really is the best commercial decision for HTC to pursue.

Add that to the fact that HTC has perhaps had the longest history of 'modders' and hackers for their platform, right back to windows mobile days (The hint is in the site's name after all) and I question whether they really are taking the most sensible decisions.

Having said that, they did listen over the locked bootloader so perhaps the answer is to let them (calmly) know out views on their decisions and hope they listen again.

Just my two pennies worth...
[HTC One X] bazman70:
In the UK, if something develops a fault within the first 6 months, it is the sellers (not HTC) responsibility to prove that you didn't cause the damage. If they cannot prove this, they must repair for free

After 6 months it changes to the owners responsibility
[HTC One X] aranab:
And in fact the same law (sales of goods act 1979) says that its the sellers responsibility ;-) lets see if car phone warehouse can evade me
[HTC One X] treebill:
Love to see you bring that up in store see the blank look on their face as they get the management lol.

Got some of the act I think might apply here
[HTC One X] Cloudane:
Interesting thread - certainly makes me think twice about rooting. I was tempted to for a couple of reasons

1) The colours on the screen are wayyyyy over-saturated (take a photo in England and get bright blue skies and bright green grass? Oh really, heh. And Fluttershy here is positively luminescent on my phone!) and I'd like to do something about that e.g. apply a colour profile

2) To use something for adjusting the vibration patterns so I can tell the difference between an email and a text message.

Most interestingly, the sales guys at CPW actually offered help with rooting! So I'm wondering what CPW's stance on this is.

As I've seen one other point out though, there's a difference between a warranty and consumer rights.

A warranty is a voluntary cover (but highly advisable for them to offer) ON TOP of your rights as a consumer, and in my understanding they're well within their rights to consider this warranty void for any reason if they warn you beforehand of its terms - you can see many manufacturers do this by adding a tamper-proof warranty label.

Consumer statutory rights are the law over it. In the UK there are a whole bunch of rules which can be looked up and were quoted earlier - but the gist is that you're pretty well covered regardless of whether their voluntary warranty is void or not, and by law they should cover you. But the onus is on the consumer to stand up for himself and his rights.

They know full well that most people cannot afford or be bothered to take them to court, so what they do is illegally refuse to repair it. It's unfair, but if they can get away with doing things illegally because no-one challenges them, it makes perfect business sense to do so. It's far cheaper to let the occasional 1 out of 1000 with faulty rooted handsets take them to court than to automatically repair all 1000. Until such day when all 1000 actually stand up for their rights, anyway!

Really, HTC should be held accountable by the law/government regardless e.g. with big fines for illegal activity.

Until then it's a judgement call.

Are you willing to accept that they won't voluntarily help you and that you'd have to take them to court for any faults? Then root. If not, then don't. :D And in future, consider companies with better warranty terms. Had I heard about this before buying, I might have waited out for the Samsung S3, at least after researching their warranty terms.
[HTC One X] ace29ace:
No more HTC for me

I am in charge of purchasing Mobile phones for a large transport company in Australia. I purchased HTC One X to develop an application for stock control using NFC feature on One X. I was about to place an order for 500 units tomorrow and 1000 units next month. But due to this warranty issue I am going to walk away from HTC.

Thank you to all that hi lighted this issue you have saved me time and headaches.
[HTC One X] abc27:
Make your case to HTC. They'd have to be idiots of the highest order to throw away 1500 sales.
[HTC One X] JeckyllHavok:
Intersesting just had a chat with HTC:

In English:

Marie: Thanks for contacting HTC, how can i help you

Me: Hi, i got a question about HTC bootloader unlock

Me: on HTCdev you say that the process "may void your waranty"

Me: What does the "may" mean cause it means "may" :)

Marie: Thanks for your question about Bootloader unlocking

Marie: The thing is the basic unlocking won't void your waranty, but if you install another software afterwards, it will be voided.

Me: Ok, the thing is i want to use Titanium Backup from Play Store would this void my waranty?

Marie: This shpuld be covered under waranty, just things like custom roms etc. will void waranty

Me: Ok, so as long the original roms stays on the device waranty will be intact

Marie: Yes

Me: Thanks Marie, you helped blablablabla

The question is now, does HTC have something on the devices that lets them notice that a custom rom was installed? Or did thoose who send their phones back forgot something on them...
[HTC One X] drew071:
I think people left traces on their devices. If it was me I would flash stock ruu then completely wipe internal memory and factory test again. Surely all traces are gone thrn.
[HTC One X] Albert Poon:
That looks more comfortable...
[HTC One X] f4flake:
And still unenforceable.

I just sent an email to HTC regarding their terms and conditions, stating I disagreed with some of them and asking how i should proceed.

====================

I have read your terms and conditions and have discovered I do not agree with some of them.

As such, in order to not contravene your wishes I must remove your software from my device.

Unfortunately due to security restrictions I am unable to do so.

This leaves me with a small problem as I'm sure you agree.

How should I proceed?

========================
[HTC One X] cccy:
I doubt this would work, HTC will just request you to return the phone to them and receive a refund for your phone.
[HTC One X] f4flake:
My contract is with my provider not HTC.

I don't expect to get anywhere but I've had enough of owning harfware I have no control over.
[HTC One X] abc27:
That's actually quite a spectacular idea.

HTC can't force you to accept the terms and conditions and they can't force you to return the phone. It'll be interesting to see how they reply.
[HTC One X] treebill:
It really will.
[HTC One X] trojanere:
Usually when you break the seal on the box, thats your acceptance of T&Cs
[HTC One X] dj_destruction:
::UPDATE::

Finally getting a replacement couriered to me tomorrow from T-Mobile. Had the device since 5th April Noticed major screen flex and yellow spots on the 20th April, been in heated discussions with both HTC and T-Mobile whom both of which were only offering repair. After endless calls and emails T-Mobile complaints called this morning and said a new one is on its way, and HTC today also agreed to replace my faulty device. Ive gone with the T-Mobile replacement as they do a doorstep replacement and HTC do a return and exchange. So win win for me at last altho it was a real battle. :D
[HTC One X] SB13X:
As I said I contacted Citizens Advice in the UK who took the Government Contract from Consumer Direct when they were amalgamated together and this was their response exactly as I've laid out in my previous post.

Got this from the UK Government portal for Consumer Advice:
[HTC One X] abc27:
No it isn't. How can you accept T&Cs (Which are found within the box) without actually opening the box?
[HTC One X] treebill:
or the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—

(a)fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,

(b)appearance and finish,

(c)freedom from minor defects,

(d)safety, and

(e)durability.

i believe screen flex/spots/overheating/dead pixels fall cleanly into this section of the sales of good act 1979.
[HTC One X] SB13X:
They do but the act only applies between you and the company from whom you purchase the device not the manufacturer unless you purchase from them direct. Insofar as warranties are concerned no legislation exists as to make them enforceable. I repeat unless you have purchased directly from them.
[HTC One X] treebill:
Yes I know I would have to use this against o2 as that's where I got it from, luckily for me I got a perfect one x.
[HTC One X] leith51:
I've had 7 from t-mobile since 5th april I've just returned the last two and cancelled both my lines with them reasons being

1, 6 out of 7 had screen flicker

2, 1 had obviously being returned previously

3, 5 out of 7 never dropped below 20c while in sleep mode

4, 2 out 7 had screen flexing or clicking

5, 2 out of 7 dropping signal even though it suppose to switch to t-mobile orange to be told I have manual even though I explained I had 7 in total and it first time I had this problem they still said some handsets it has to be done manual on the same bloody device!!!!

Out of 7 handsets I haven't had 1 without a fault I never unlocked the bootloader on any of them due to above issues

Now with the uk consumer rights with t-mobile they have a 7 day return policy a.k.a cooling off period this however they attempted to use on faulty hardware and also tried to only offer me a repair instead of a replacement or return.

It took all of 10 mins to argue it out I put them straight I had at least 1 handset per week and exchanged them within the 7 day period due to faults and an offer of just a repair was invalid as the phones were in warranty of the 7 days, the answer I got was but your upgrade was 5th of April its now 30 days I once again pointed out that I did not own the same device for longer than the 7day return policy they have which the bloke on other end went quiet ask to put me on hold for 2mins and then agreed to take the phones back and return to upgrade state of contract which I then cancelled both lines.

Don't waste your time mate your likely to get one of my returns
[HTC One X] soulcrusher:
As for the original issue of this topic, the htcdev site states the following:

So they basically say if you mess up, you're on your own. BUT it also states:

This implies there is a chance you could get your claim covered by warranty. In reality this is contrary to what htc representatives tell us; if you've unlocked the bootloader of your device your warranty is gone. It should have stated that all claims won't be covered under warranty. The information provided on htcdev.com is misleading.

As for the issue where htc is actually saying that some people's claims aren't covered by warranty.. The way I understand it, is that if you have a unlocked device and have a hardware defect which is not caused by unlocking, rooting or whatever, htc tries to pin you by saying they need to replace the motherboard to restore the phone to factory condition, this is ridiculous.

If I have a car and redid the interior and after a while I got a crack in the exhaust, the manufacturer will repair the exhaust and will NOT replace my interior to the original one. Or vice versa, if i tuned my engine but my seat heater broke, would they also restore the engine to it's original state? NO... So why would htc say they NEED to restore it to factory condition?

And as a personal experience, I once sent an htc wizard for repair. The device had some scratches on it, but the defect it had was not caused by this so it fell under warranty. When I got my phone back, they replaced the faulty part (sd-slot) and did a software reset, but the scratched exterior parts were not replaced. How's that for restoring the phone to factory condition?

HTC really needs to be clear on this one.. On the htcdev site they are stating that they care for developers and they listen to customers, but they aren't clear on what the consequences are, or at the minimum make them vague and seemingly not a big deal. And if someone uses their service and afterwards has an issue not related to what they did, htc just tries to pin it on their (in htc's eyes mis)use of the unlocked bootloader. what kind of service is that?
[HTC One X] andee84:
Hi all.

Have just asked german htc support via chat.

Here the conversation in german:

This mean for german owners:

1. No warranty or support for software bugs.

2. For hardware, if not caused by software (overclock etc), you have normal warranty.

3. Is it not 100% clear wat he means with software version, but custom 4.x roms are definitively ok :) In case of problem with warranty - law is on our side :)

4. htcdev.com is legal way to unlock bootloader.
[HTC One X] Appsdroid:
No unfortunately at least according to HTCDev they have built in a tracer system which logs and identifies any changes to the ROM so regardless if you put the standard firmware back on the device they still know its had a custom rom on it.
[HTC One X] soulcrusher:
True, but then there could be a chance they don't look at this, why would they waste extra time doing checks when they only need to repair a button for example.

I once sent a cid-unlocked HTC touch dual for warranty and it got repaired, but I'm not sure it was repaired by HTC or by a partner of my carrier
[HTC One X] Appsdroid:
Ive sent in some of my older HTC's in unlocked, rooted and never had any problems once i didnt even flash the original firmware back. Im assuming from what he explained to me that when they connect the device up via there special usb the prop file (i think) pulls the information out straight away so they can see if the device had been tampered with prior to doing anything else with it.

f4flake: What did HTC come back with when you expressed concerns that you didnt agree with the T&C's of there bootloader. This is still interesting as already said they cant force you to agree to them and they cant force you to return your phone. They stated there unable to unlock because of the carriers however even if I unlock the phone for any SIM im still stuck in a contract with that provider even if i choice not to use the sim im paying for each month. Im thinking this might be a catch 23 for HTC so wanted to know what they said to you on this.
[HTC One X] yakooza83:
Ich glaub so wie er schreibt, kennt er sich selber nicht aus..

From Austrian HTC Support, the Guy say if I Flash an AOSP Sorfware, the warranty is gone.. hmm
[HTC One X] soulcrusher:
so sense roms are fine?:confused:

how can that be relevant
[HTC One X] yakooza83:
I don't know... The German support say it's OK to flash a AOSP Rom, the Austrian say every Custom Rom delayed Warranty.. I think nobody really know what the truth is.
[HTC One X] nikzDHD:
It's one of those things that you won't know the answer to until you personally experience it. How long will users wait for S-OFF?

HTCDev is the only method at the moment, a risk none the less. What happens 5 or 6 months down the line and you've unlocked and face hardware issues. We don't know how our phones will fare in he upcoming months.

It's the end users choice at the end of the day whether to unlock or not.

Hopefully we do get a clear picture of all of this.
[HTC One X] certomaz:
F4flake - I can say that this (what you did with the support and his teamleader) - this is not normal and Luke made you look "funny".

You are really... just drink your pills in time man.

:)
[HTC One X] Hudrator:
Want to Support my german fellows.

Phoned today with Arvato, that's the repair-service in Germany.

They told me that there should be no Problem with the warrenty as long there would be a "HTC certified Software" on the Phone. In other words, a pure Stock-Rom.

Next I called HTC Germany.

The guy i talked to, was quiet good informed about the Situation.

The important Parts of that talk:

1. Arvato is in charge to decide wether you have warrenty or not.

So if your giving your Phone into repair with an Stock-Rom, the chances are VERY high

that there will be no problem with warrenty.

2. There are differences between the countrys. It seems to me that HTC leave it to

local branches how to deal with the warrenty when you unlocked your phone.

So in Germany it seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel ;-)
[HTC One X] anub1s18:
in my very very limited experience it comes down to the type of damage.

when i dropped my DHD and busted the screen i sent it for repair (granted by a 3rd party insurance company not HTC themselves).

i ment to flash the latest RUU on it but completely forgot so it got sent for repair with my SD card and ARHD on it but got fixed under warranty with no problems (and they didn't even steal my SD card, good guys :P).

though i cant imagine HTC would even attempt to say "but your rom is not stock and your bootloader is unlocked" if u were to send it back for a busted screen or a hardware defect.

it would make sense if they said that if your device is bricked or burned out (if possible by overclocking) because of software changes