yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus S General] :
WEEKLY UPDATE: Kernels and ROMs.

I think this is a good way of showing what has happened in a week:

Kernels BEFORE

Kernels AFTER

So it looks like it's a negative week for matr1x and trinity.

ROMs BEFORE

ROMs AFTER

...and it's been a good week for Bugless Beast, CyberGR-Mod, and Apex.

Note - some threads have not had enough posts, so they show no change (due to the way I designed my program, i.e. not to download the final page of a thread).

@tchaari your results are now up too.
[Nexus S General] :
I've added nexus beam to the NSUX benchmark since it's been updated to 4.0.4

I'm also working on integrating wingify into my program so I can average out the results of the two different APIs.
[Nexus S General] :
UPDATE:

Updated all threads with Alchemy API, looks like there's been lots of good posts in Slim ICS and Androxide this week.

Will be integrating Wingify results tonight with luck. I have already built a working program and got all my sentiment scores for every thread, just need to copy them into the online spreadsheet.
[Nexus S General] :
Okay, so Wingify results are now merged in. Now we have two sentiment APIs crunching every thread!

Since the two APIs have different scales, I've used my old favourite, the geometric mean to average them out.

Just technical detail: wingify scale goes from 0% to 100%, and Alchemy goes from -100% to 100%, so I took wingify and doubled it, then take away 100% (which puts it on the same scale as Alchemy). However, since the results tend to be generally in the high to very high region for Wingify and a neutral to high region for Alchemy, an ordinary average would compromise both. The geometric mean helps to give a positive bias to results that agree with each other, even when they are originating from different regions of the same scale.

@tchaari, since I've incorporated Wingify, I've removed the separate Wingify page of the results you collected.

I'm going to add a before and after picture to show where incorporating Wingify has altered the results.

Before

After

EDIT: It's easier to see if you're on a computer, so you can open these two images in two tabs, and CTRL-TAB / CTRL-SHIFT-TAB forwards and back between them. There's been no major changes in ranking, but it does look like one or two ROMs didn't get the same level of boost.
[Nexus S General] tchaari:
good work bedalus. The results seem to me a bit better now with wingify ;)

Can you include the official 4.0.4 OTA thread? just to check if it has an incredible high score like I noticed with my Java Program.
[Nexus S General] :
I don't think I can. I'm not adding threads unless they have more than 400 posts. I think the last time I checked, it was still under.
[Nexus S General] doublewong:
Thanks for building such useful webpage, it really help me a lot for rom and kernel selection. :)

Is it possible to add a link back to the original rom/kernel thread? As I am lazy to search the thread in the xda forum. ;)
[Nexus S General] :
That's a good idea. I'm sure I can add that today.
[Nexus S General] ljordan2:
It's kind of weird to see that Trinity kernel's UX score is the lowest one:confused:
[Nexus S General] :
I think the posts in the trinity thread are more sober. The other kernels get a lot of crazy hype.

At the moment, I'm happy to recommend either trinity or matr1x
[Nexus S General] tchaari:
Using my program, I obtain this based on alchemy:

1) NS+4G Trinity (E)UV and OC CM9 + m(any) roms {

0,089

}

2) AniDroid-Hardened (GS|FC|ALOC|Voodoo|HBIGM|BLN|BLD|TW|3.0.27) {

0,082

}

3) [GPL][23 APR] franco.Kernel | 3.0.8 | r4 {

0,068

}

4) SG-NS-ICS 11UV|Voodoo|BIGMEM|BLN|BLD|BLX|TW|3.0.22 {

0,068

}

5) [05 MAY] v2.2 RcrdBrt's INK kernel {

0,066

}

6) [04 APR] GLaDOS V2.11 {

0,064

}

7) *Matr1x* with BLN and voodoo v19.5 {

0,06

}

8) [KERNEL] Air Kernel v4.1 Stable and Weekly Builds!! {

0,053

}

And this is what I get using wingify:

1) [KERNEL][04 APR] GLaDOS V2.11{

77,61%

}

2) [KERNEL][ICS][11-04-12] AniDroid-Hardened (GS|FC|ALOC|Voodoo|HBIGM|BLN|BLD|TW|3.0.27){

76,98%

}

3) [KERNEL] [05 MAY] v2.2 and GamerEditionV3 RcrdBrt's INK kernel{

75,64%

}

4) [KERNEL]*Matr1x* with BLN and voodoo v19.5 | ICS - 4.0.3/4.0.4{

75,07%

}

5) [KERNEL] Air Kernel v4.1 Stable and Weekly Builds!! {

72,13%

}

6) [DER KERNEL] NS+4G Trinity (E)UV and OC CM9 + m(any) roms{

71,99%

}

7) [KERNEL][GPL][23 APR] franco.Kernel | 3.0.8 | r4{

68,41%

}

8) [KERNEL] SG-NS-ICS - 29-02-2012 - 11UV|Voodoo|BIGMEM|BLN|BLD|BLX|TW|3.0.22 {

68,07%

}

A bit confusing. The ranking isn't the same at all :)

Can you please give feedback on those rankings. Which one seems to be more realistic according to your real user experience?
[Nexus S General] tchaari:
Now this is what I got for ROMs with wingify:

1) MIUIXPERIENCE #5{

80,26%

}

2) Bugless Beast (Nightlies){

78,15%

}

3) °•KANGYU•° 2.1 • Smooth • Powerful • Battery lovers{

77,9%

}

4) Oodie pRiMe " rOcket fUeled " {

77,37%

}

5) Android Open Kang Project-build 22{

77,18%

}

6) Mandaman2k_v7 {

76,59%

}

7) Androxide 2.1.0 {

76,57%

}

8) -=Nexus MV 2.05.03=-{

76,42%

}

9) AOSP+|Vanilla(V1.0.1) & Neapolitan(N.8.1) {

75,8%

}

10) Catalyst MIUI with Language Packs and OTA Update{

75,55%

}

11) NexusBeam - 5.0.0 | Aroma 2.0 | Fast, Amazing{

75,08%

}

12) DianXin OS (DX ROM) ICS | GB ROM {

71,96%

}

13) Slim ICS 68MB- {

67,91%

}

14) Gummy 1.2 {

67,66%

}

15) Brainmaster's MIUI 2.3.16 ICS {

66,81%

}

16) Brainmaster's Stock ICS {

65,22%

}

17) Brainmaster's CM9 Black CM9 v3.0 OTA {

64,91%

}

18) CyberGR-MOD|NS.NGN ICS v.11{

63,67%

}

19) Codename Android 2.0.0RC {

62,07%

}

20) CyanogenMod 9 v4.0.4 v7.0 {

60,94%

}

21) HTC Sense 4.0 {

60,53%

}

22) Apex v1.1.3 {

58,2%

}

And with alchemy:

1) AOSP+|Vanilla(V1.0.1) & Neapolitan(N.8.1) Flavors {

0,103

}

2) Brainmaster's MIUI 2.3.16 ICS {

0,102

}

3) HTC Sense 4.0 {

0,101

}

4) -=Nexus MV 2.05.03=- {

0,1

}

5) °•KANGYU•° 2.1 • Smooth • Powerful • Battery lovers {

0,099

}

6) CyberGR-MOD|NS.NGN ICS v.12 {

0,097

}

7) DianXin OS (DX ROM) {

0,094

}

8) Catalyst MIUI with Language Packs and OTA Update {

0,086

}

9) Apex v1.1.3: Features Keep Pilin' On! {

0,086

}

10) Brainmaster's CM9 & Black CM9 v3.0 OTA {

0,086

}

11) Slim ICS 68MB- {

0,082

}

12) Brainmaster's Stock ICS 4.0.4 {

0,08

}

13) NexusBeam - 5.0.0 | Aroma 2.0 {

0,075

}

14) Android Open Kang Project-build 22 {

0,074

}

15) Mandaman2k_v7 ROM based on Buggles Beast {

0,067

}

16) Bugless Beast (Nightlies) {

0,061

}

17) Codename Android 2.0.0RC {

0,059

}

18) Androxide 2.1.0 {

0,058

}

19) Oodie pRiMe " rOcket fUeled " {

0,055

}

20) Gummy 1.2 {

0,047

}

21) CyanogenMod 9 v4.0.4 v7.0 {

0,035

}

22) MIUIXPERIENCE #5 {

-0,006

}

Can you please give feedback on those rankings. Which one seems to be more realistic according to your real user experience?
[Nexus S General] :
If you multiply them together and take the square root it will give an advantage to the ones that agree:

1) Trinity 0,089 * 71,99% (square root) = 2.531

2) AniDroid-Hardened 0,082 * 76,98% = 2.512

5) RcrdBrt's INK kernel 0,066 * 75,64% = 2.234

6) GLaDOS 0,064 * 77,61% = 2.229

3) franco.Kernel 0,068 * 68,41% = 2.157

4) SG-NS-ICS 0,068 * 68,07% = 2.157

5) ^^^

6) ^^^

7) *Matr1x* 0,06 * 75,07% = 2.122

8) Air Kernel 0,053 * 72,13% = 1.955

In fact the ranking doesn't change (except for INK/GlaDOS) compared to Alchemy, which I think indicates that Wingify isn't separating enough.
[Nexus S General] :
Yeah, i don't think that looks right either. I think the problem of analysing individual posts is that if one person posts "terrible" and another person posts "wow, really amazing awesome incredible super genius fantastic brilliant and the best thing on my phone and in the universe itself..." one would score high, and one would score low, and they would average out, which isn't really fair, because the person who wrote more made more of an effort. And i think effort is probably correlated to sentiment.
[Nexus S General] tchaari:
Thanks bedalus but I am not analyzing the posts individually. I am taking chunks of 50 posts. I obtain them using the printable version of the threads. For example, the first 50 posts of KangyU can be accessed using this URI

http://xdaforums.com/printthread.php?t=1592216&pp=50&page=1

For the next 50 posts, I use this URI

http://xdaforums.com/printthread.php?t=1592216&pp=50&page=2

and so on...
[Nexus S General] :
Oh right, hmm. Well now I'm confused.
[Nexus S General] tchaari:
Yes it is really confusing...

Bedalus, if you have some free time, can you please compare the score of a big chunk of words to the average of small chunks from the big one.

For example, the score of 400 words compared to the average of 4 x 100 words...
[Nexus S General] :
Ah, good idea

EDIT:

Okay. I copied some stuff on Genocide from wikipedia and fed that into wingify in chunks.

curl http://api.wingify.com:9312/context/ -d "content=Genocide is defined as the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group, though what constitutes enough of a part to qualify as genocide has been subject to much debate by legal scholars." -d "authkey=cvi1wke4r92m6x"

0.51833333333333342

curl http://api.wingify.com:9312/context/ -d "content=While a precise definition varies among genocide scholars, a legal definition is found in the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG)." -d "authkey=cvi1wke4r92m6x"

~ (response was "can't say")

curl http://api.wingify.com:9312/context/ -d "content=Article 2 of this convention defines genocide as any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such killing members of the group causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group forcibly transferring children of the group to another group" -d "authkey=cvi1wke4r92m6x"

0.28561664701257855

But when submitted as one complete paragraph, the score was 0.29757030545974339

I'm a bit sleep deprived at the moment so I can't interpret this result!
[Nexus S General] tchaari:
The text used in this example is a bit confusing. I think that it should be better to apply this on text from a ROM thread to see what precision we loose when we analyze sentiments by dividing a big amount of posts into small pieces...

I did a small test:

The sentiment analysis of all the posts in this page http://xdaforums.com/printthread.php?t=1592216&pp=50&page=2 is 0.77

if I divide it in 3 parts, I obtain 0.79 + 0.63 + 0.84 and the average is 0.75

If divided in two parts, I obtain an average of 0.775

The impression that I have is the more we divide the text, the more the sentiment analysis will be less accurate. Maybe bedalus can prove it or disprove it mathematically in a more sound way ;)
[Nexus S General] dreamsforgotten:
Holy **** man very nice
[Nexus S General] :
UPDATE:

Well, looks like it's been a week, so here's a refresh. I'm just going to focus on the biggest story from the ROM graph, which shows a huge jump up the ranks for Nexus Beam 5.0.0 in particular.

What's this ROM all about? Well, here's what I've picked out from the feature list and changelog that makes this ROM stand out:

- Aroma 2.0 installer

- Removed software (CPU) rendering - full PowerVR SGX 540 (GPU) rendering

- Battery auto-calibration script

- Android 4.0.4 IMM76I base (Galaxy Nexus)

- YouTube HD (!!!)

- Sony Bravia engine

- Python 2.6

I have of course tried this ROM, and liked it, but not enough to use as a daily driver. It wasn't that there was anything wrong, but I felt as though many things had been included that didn't add anything noticeable. I don't like tweaks that have no obvious effect! Here's a mini-breakdown of each feature:

Aroma 2 installer: This looks fancy, and gives ROM flashing a sense of grandeur and significance, but ultimately it didn't work properly (touch response needed calibrating) and there were no options to customise, so it just made me wait longer for no reason!

Removed CPU software rendering: I know that the software rendering is provided by a library, and removing this library forces the GPU to provide the rendering. This is fine, but I can't say I've ever noticed the difference from that tweak apart from with Quadrant (a benchmark app that I now thoroughly discourage the use of).

Battery calibration script: This also sounds like hocus-pocus. If you charge up your phone fully, the battery stats file is deleted. Everyone's read that Dianne Hackbourne's article right?

IMM76I base with HWComposer: I've read this and I can't really say I understand it, but it sounds like all it does is give apps the ability to chose whether or not they want hardware or software rendering. But, uh... the library needed for software rendering was removed already... so ummm... this makes it a redundant tweak. (Please, correct me if I'm wrong, which I may very well be!)

YouTube in HD: Our display is 480 by 800 pixels, and 720p is 720 by 1280 pixels. So I'm not sure exactly what has been accomplished here, but I definitely thought the picture was sharper. I think the best way to judge this would be side by side with another phone with standard YouTube.

Sony Bravia Engine: I couldn't see a difference. I've seen a few posts saying that it can only work on phones that support it, i.e. Sony smartphones.

Python 2.6: I'm completely clueless about this feature. My best guess is that it was listed to show that Coentje44's build system is up to date, but to be honest, I didn't think there was any python in android... Perhaps someone can confirm?

In conclusion...

I'm pretty sure that if a ROM has esoteric features that sound impressive, it will attract attention. But it doesn't necessarily make it better than any other ROM. Not that this ROM was worse than any other ROM... but I feel like there is a lot of unnecessary code in this, and I'd rather that everything in my ROM is there for a good reason.

Thumbnails from this week and last week below.
[Nexus S General] rockb.blues:
Thanks for an update and the review. I'll be giving nexus beam a try just to see what all the fuss is about :)

Out of Curiosity, what IS your daily driver on the nexus S?
[Nexus S General] :
At the moment I'm using the matr1x build of kangyu (not quite the latest version)

I normally use slim, but i just love the inverted apps and touchwizzed icons in kangyu. It feels slick too.
[Nexus S General] glennkaonang:
Regarding the BRAVIA engine, I read it somewhere that you can only see the real difference when viewing photos or watching videos.

I myself have never tried it, so I might as well be wrong here.
[Nexus S General] tchaari:
Results update

I made some changes in my Java Sentiment Analysis Program. Now, I collect the last 200 to 250 posts as a single big chunk then I clean quotes and HTML tags before getting the score using wingify. These are the new results for the ROMs:

1) 08/05/2012 DianXin OS (DX ROM) ICS | GB ROM *Smooth* *Stable* *Great UI* --> {

77,13% positive

}

2) CyberGR-MOD|NS.NGN ICS v.12 HYBRID|TWEAKS++|MODS++|Thunder Storm! --> {

77,05% positive

}

3) Catalyst MIUI with Language Packs and OTA Update --> {

76,64% positive

}

4) NexusBeam - 5.0.0 | Aroma 2.0 | Fast, Amazing --> {

73,12% positive

}

5) Apex v1.1.3: Features Keep Pilin' On! (5/13/12) --> {

71,48% positive

}

6) -=Nexus MV 2.05.21=- | 4.0.4 | INK-MarkVis Edition | CM9-KANG-MAY.21 --> {

70,95% positive

}

7) MIUIXPERIENCE #5 | Smooth! Duration! Stock! --> {

69,17% positive

}

8) Gummy 1.2 - 09 MAY 2012 --> {

67,86% positive

}

9) Slim ICS(Crespo)- Clean, Simple & Fast (Base ~56MB + Essentials ~20 MB ) --> {

67,08% positive

}

10) Androxide 2.1.0 | AOSP | 4.0.4 | 05-05-2012 --> {

66,81% positive

}

11) °•KANGYU•° 2.2.1 • Smooth • …The…Bombardier°… • Saving --> {

65,89% positive

}

12) CyanogenMod 9 v4.0.4 v7.0 + CM Night builds --> {

63,54% positive

}

13) Bugless Beast (Nightlies) --> {

62,88% positive

}

ROMs that were not updated or having less than 200 posts are not included in the ranking.

And these are the new results for the kernels:

1) franco.Kernel | 3.0.8 | r4 --> {

73,26% positive

}

2) *Matr1x* with BLN and voodoo v20.0 | ICS - 4.0.3/4.0.4 --> {

73,05% positive

}

3) NS+4G Trinity (E)UV and OC CM9 + m(any) roms --> {

68,52% positive

}

4) 3.0.32 INK-cyano Ezekeel+CM | stable and fast --> {

67,72% positive

}

5) Air Kernel v4.2 Stable and Weekly Builds!! [14 MAY 2012] for ICS --> {

65,56% positive

}

6) GLaDOS V2.11 --> {

64,31% positive

}
[Nexus S General] :
That's looking a bit more realistic. I'll have to look at dian xin again now!
[Nexus S General] :
Here we have an overdue update...

The things I notice this week are a big drop for matr1x (lots of 9023 owners moaning about the 50Hz refresh rate not working well on their phones). I feel partly responsible for this because I encouraged mk to go for the 50Hz! This is the kernel I prefer anyway!

The ROMs having the biggest jump up are Cyanogenmod and Nexus MV which is based on Cyanogenmod. This means that the CM team must be doing something right this week.
[Nexus S General] tchaari:
Thank you bedalus. Strange, my Java Program found a bit different results (especially for Nexus MV):

1) Catalyst MIUI --> {

77,12% positive

}

2) CyberGR-MOD|NS.NGN ICS v.12 HYBRID --> {

76,87% positive

}

3) CyanogenMod 9 v4.0.4 v7.0 --> {

73,88% positive

}

4) Apex v1.1.3 (5/13/12) --> {

71,58% positive

}

5) MIUIXPERIENCE #5 --> {

68,84% positive

}

6) Gummy 1.2 - 09 MAY 2012 --> {

68,59% positive

}

7) NexusBeam - 5.0.0 --> {

67,48% positive

}

8) Slim ICS(Crespo) --> {

66,97% positive

}

9) =Nexus MV[06.01]= CM9-KANG-JUN.01 --> {

65,43% positive

}

10) Oodie MIUI | 06/02 | --> {

64,11% positive

}

11) Codename Android 2.0.0RC --> {

63,86% positive

}

12) °•KANGYU•° 2.2.1 •° --> {

63,46% positive

}

13) Bugless Beast (Nightlies) --> {

62,93% positive

}

14) HTC Sense 4.0 | ICS 4.0.3 | 2/17/12 --> {

62,46% positive

}

15) PARANOIDANDROID v1.1a --> {

52,73% positive

}

My interpretations of the TOP 5 are:

- Catalyst went to top because of many sympathetic posts after Kong's decision to leave the nexus S community (those lucky users in the Gnex forum :mad:).

- CM9 jumped up like in bedalus results and for the reasons he explained.

- CyberGR Mod, Apex and MIUIXPERIENCE kept approximately the same score as their added posts since last week are short and somewhat neutral.

For kernels, I can confirm matr1x drop too:

1) franco.Kernel | 3.0.8 | r4 --> {

73,27% positive

}

2) NS+4G Trinity --> {

67,62% positive

}

3) 3.0.32 INK-CM custom --> {

64,4% positive

}

4) GLaDOS V2.11 --> {

64,26% positive

}

5) Air Kernel v4.2 --> {

64,06% positive

}

6) *Matr1x* --> {

62,7% positive

}
[Nexus S General] :
I think i will have to end this project, it just doesn't seem sufficiently helpful.

I'll need a new one!
[Nexus S General] tchaari:
Yes buddy, I think that this project needs just to be for fun. The results should not be taken too seriously. Sentiment analysis is funny and promising but it is not accurate enough to be taken as a reference.
[Nexus S General] glennkaonang:
Both of you have entertained us a lot with these unique projects. Not all subforums have users like what we have here. I wonder what will happen if you guys actually upgrade your phones. Perhaps later this year when the recently-rumored Nexuses are unveiled? :P
[Nexus S General] :
I'm not upgrading until something really outstanding appears. I don't play games, and even if i did they wouldn't strain the cpu/gpu. When the OS starts to feel old perhaps... But i kind of like old stuff. I just bought a g4 PowerBook on Ebay for almost nothing...

Like classic cars...? But laptops? Hmm not quite the same, but sort of!
[Nexus S General] :
Okay, thread requested to close. It doesn't seem useful or accurate! Feel free to pm me if anyone has any ideas.

Battery thread still open (here) if anyone needs to post something about benchmarking publicly.
[Nexus S General] veyka:
Closed as per OP request :)
[Android Apps and Games] blooms2001:
any updates on yahoo messenger for icecream sandwich
[Android Apps and Games] lowandbehold:
Use IM+...it integrates all messengers
[Verizon Droid Incredible 2] FatGuyWithWifi:
i wanna get into the dev community. I realized i use what people make, but unlike alot of people, i wanna give back a little. Basically what im asking for is someone for me to message throughout this whole ordeal, and help me with some step by step things, walkthroughs, videos, anything to help me get going. Id prefer them to be roms devs themselves. i also enjoy long walks on the beach and just getting to know each other ;)
[Verizon Droid Incredible 2] HypostaticOnion:
I'm in the same boat bro. I wanna get into it as well, although I don't have the time to devote to it right now.

Swyped From My MikRunny'd Superphone Using TapaTalk 2
[Verizon Droid Incredible 2] nitsuj17:
there are numerous tutorials on xda, rootz, and other sites on building from source and/or making sense (oem skin) roms

theres no quick step to get going, though building straight from someones source (which isnt really developing) requires just a few commands once ur build environment is set up

really though, most rom devs (well maybe not most, but many) started with theming first to get gain a working knowledge of the structure/set up of a rom and what controls what...as well as basically smali editing/apk decompiling and the tools needed

aosp requires a semi working knowledge of java to actually build your own things rather than syncing and building someone elses

there are plenty of devs that enjoying helping new folks out...but its kind of understood that you ll do some research on your own and have some knowledge of what ur doing...its a lot to kind of ask someone to talk you through every single thing that goes into it :p

from my own personal experience it, it took me several months of theming before i felt confident enough to tackle a rom project...and even then they were rom collaborations with people a lot smarter than me (sbrissen, adrynalyne, imnuts, etc)
[Verizon Droid Incredible 2] FatGuyWithWifi:
so if i were to start off with theming, what tools/programs would i need for my windows 7 running computer?
[Verizon Droid Incredible 2] HypostaticOnion:
JDK, SDK, apktool, gimp, notepad++,and there's a search tool that I can't remember off the top of my head. That's all I got right now. And all I'm gonna run for a while.

Swyped From My MikRunny'd Superphone Using TapaTalk 2
[Verizon Droid Incredible 2] FatGuyWithWifi:
awesome, now where do i go to start learning how to theme?
[Verizon Droid Incredible 2] nitsuj17:
This might help...my really old fascinate theme guide http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=932856
[Verizon Droid Incredible 2] FatGuyWithWifi:
wow good stuff bro thanks alot
[Verizon Droid Incredible 2] FatGuyWithWifi:
wow this is actually just about what im looking for. its not very in depth, mostly the basics from the looks of it, but it sure as hell is a great start. i appreciate it.
[Verizon Droid Incredible 2] Amphibliam:
I'm taking a java course this summer to help me make some ROMs. I would recommend it.
[Verizon Droid Incredible 2] FatGuyWithWifi:
i would but i dont have the time nor the money for it. my dads got his masters in computers tho i could probably get help from him for things like that.
[Verizon Droid Incredible 2] sjpritch25:
My parents gave me their old laptop, I have ubuntu on it. When I get the time, I want to create my ROM based on CM9. I want to learn Java too, because I would like to do some themeing too.
[Verizon Droid Incredible 2] nitsuj17:
Theming doesn't require java knowledge