yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[General Topics] benson12:
It sounds like Straight Talk and Red Pocket could be okay MVNOs (on AT&T network anyway), but I hear they use the prepay network coverage, which is supposedly smaller than the postpaid. I don't know that for sure, I just did some reading last night.

The downside to me is that I have 2 smartphones on my plan, and 1 dumbphone. An MVNO will beat the price, but not by much, and I wouldn't be gaining anything except no contract. If I were to switch, I would want to be saving money and getting at least the same service. On Red Pocket, at $60 for each smartphone, and $40 for the dumbphone, I wouldn't be saving any money at all. Now, Straight Talk would save me money, $45 for each phone, I'd be saving some.

I'd likely port my numbers to Google Voice if I were to switch, that way I wouldn't have any troubles with them, and can keep the number as long as Google Voice is around.

The thing is, I'm locked into my contract for another 1.5 years anyway. I've got a while to do the research and figure it out. Maybe both of those MVNOs will be gone, and another several will be there in their place.
[General Topics] thebobp:
You've worked for the carrier that has some of the worst prepaid and most notorious customer service/customer lock-in strategies, and you're convinced you have a thorough view on the subject?

All I can say is, no wonder your posts contain so many inaccuracies (a blackberry being the only smartphone allowed on prepaid LOL) and biases (sup, I need coverage absolutely everywhere like Verizon happens to have, not just the places I actually go to). You likely only know what Verizon wanted you to spread.
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
We've been talking about contract plans vs prepay on a single user plan. What if you had a family of 3? For simplicity, we'll keep them on a talk text phone. At straight talk, that family would pay $135 plus the phone cost. On Verizon, that same family would pay $150 on an unlimited plan with free handsets. With costs of the devices included, that family would pay about the same over the term. If they picked any other service plan with Verizon, they would be paying much less over that same term.

I think when all is said and done, the decision contract/prepay is largely situation based. I do believe the big 3 collude to make their prices high enough to bleed out consumers wallets, but not too high to make prepay subcarriers the better alternative to the majority of consumers.

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] thebobp:
And what about now?

An unlocked Galaxy Nexus is $470 on Amazon, which gives $1370 as prepaid investment. A locked one is $80, rendering the post-paid investment $1880.

$510 saved. Plus you don't pay the price of lock-in: you can now switch services, no hassle, should absolutely anything comes up (including, yes, a better offer).

Edit:

Fair enough, family plans often allow for matching savings, and you only have to pay the price of lock-in.

In the end, of course:

This is absolutely right (and has been my point all along). One needs to evaluate prepaid/contract options in order to see which is best for them. I only took issue with your earlier description of prepaid as "a joke". Prepaid really does works well (depending, of course, on your preferences), and having it universally dismissed like that is little better than misinformation.
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
Dude, i'd hate to get in a verbal fist fight with you but everything I've said is based off of fact. There is only 1 model of blackberry that is permitted on Verizon's prepay. Do some research on it and next time come back with facts not senseless and factless ramblings that a 5 year old would do.

As I said previously on my first post, if a subcarriers coverage area is adequate for your part of town, and you keep to that part of town, perhaps that's the best plan for you. But you are not the majority.

I understand that many prepay users are passionate about their decision and believe they are "sticking it to the man.". The truth of the matter is, service and price are usually directly proportional in the cell phone industry. If that was not the case, the big 3 carriers would be out of business.

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] Spike15:
That's basically the worst idea ever.

It's the fact that the industry -- and, most importantly, spectra -- are regulated in the first place that lets the big players exert this kind of monopoly control.
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
The context for the prepay is a joke comment was towards using the prepay with the big 3. A comment I stand behind 100%......and would debate on all day long.

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] thebobp:
You said "the big three", not just Verizon (indeed, as I earlier pointed out, Verizon probably has the worst prepaid options available). Perhaps you should be doing some research. Wait, scratch that: perhaps you should read the thread I linked you to, as other people have even been kind enough to do the research for you.
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
I also said "I believe" that the only prepay eligible smart phone was the blackberry as a generalized statement. After I posted that comment I went back in and deleted it because outside of verizon, I wasn't sure. You just beat me to the punch.

Edit: a more useful comment to that statement would be a correction with facts listed by you instead of tossing a link to a more or less Straight Talk thread that is not a big 3 carrier. The thread talks about several subcarriers and may throw an AT&T once or twice, maybe. (didn't catch any useful AT&T posts but benefit of the doubt, there's probably some talk of them in the thousands of posts)

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] thebobp:
Fair enough.

I still think your analysis is overly restrictive (why have you automatically dismissed anything other than the "big three"? Have you seriously tried all the recommended options - e.g. Straight Talk - to know that none of them provide a good enough service for you?) but, I guess that could boil down to preferences. Plus, I've probably been enough of an ass for today.
[General Topics] The Janitor Mop:
So T-Mobile is a case in which it would generally be a good idea to get off subsidized phones? I have a subsidized Sensation and T-Mobile's network is good enough for me, so I wouldn't mind getting off the subsidized train so that I have the freedom to change phones when I want and have lower overall costs in the long run (based on a cheaper plan according to a much earlier post).
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
My original post was absolutely overly restrictive. It was due to my attempt at keeping the post a reasonable length. If I was to go into greater detail, the post could have spanned several pages and still would not detail every persons situational preference. But luckily, with our back and forth, I was able to elaborate more on the subject.

I've had experiences with straight talk and the big 3 carriers. Definitely not all inclusive but enough to speak intelligently on the subject.

Like with all posts on XDA, personal preference plays the largest part on adaptation.

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] thebobp:
Aye, T-mobile has quite a few cheap options, including an unlisted "Walmart" prepaid for $30, 100 minutes, 5gb data, if that floats your boat. (There were also "cheap contract" plans with no subsidies (I forget what they're called), which could also allow you to do as you described if you're okay with the lock-in.)
[General Topics] spunker88:
I had a $50 upgrade credit waiting for me when I bought my Droid 3 back in July from Verizon. This was back when Verizon cared and wanted to encourage their customers to stay another 2 years. Now they want me to pay an extra $30 the next time I upgrade my phone.

I only get decent Verizon coverage where I live so I thought I was stuck with them. But now I've heard about Page Plus which uses Verizon towers, so I will probably be moving to them if Verizon is going to continue ripping us off.
[General Topics] net.lander:
completely agree with you. However, for a family, a Value Plan is still the way to go... Too bad tmobile don't have pre-paid family plan
[General Topics] The Janitor Mop:
I found Monthly4G plans with no annual contract, and in particular I found a $70 unlimited talk/text with 5GB data. Right now I'm on some Family Plan that is effectively the same thing but with only 2GB data, and it costs like $40 more. Considering this am I right in thinking it would be dumb not to switch to a cheaper plan with even more data and the ability to change phones when I want?

Edit: I'm not sure if the $120 or whatever the Family Plan I'm on right now covers all the phones in my family that are on that plan or if that means that just for me it is $120...because if it is $120 total for all 4 phones that is just plain cheap and there's no way I'd be able to convince my parents to get me off it :(
[General Topics] net.lander:
agree that prepaid don't work well for family. Also agree that if 3 or more of the lines wanted LATEST NEW phone, then classic or subsidize makes more sense (calculate using manufacturer suggested retail price).

However, calculation will be different if phone are slightly older model or bought via third party. Extra insurance can be bought via squaretrade cheaply.

Most importantly for me is the voice & data coverage for MY location. Pricing does mean anything if there is no signal.

---------- Post added at 07:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:58 PM ----------

Check if you are on Classic/subsidized plan or are you in Value plan. In either plan you can pay for additional data from $10-$55. t-mobile have data tier of 200mb, 2GB, 5GB, 10GB for post paid plan. For pre-paid plan it's only upto 5GB. For family plan of 4, I will NOT use t-mobile pre-paid due to cost.
[General Topics] thebobp:
I would imagine it's $120 for all four phones; family plans are generally quite cheap.

sent from my Terran Command Center.
[General Topics] thebobp:
Minor (but important) correction: you get the latest phones that the carrier has. By buying unlocked, you're not locked into the carrier's menu either.

sent from my Terran Command Center.

Edit: didn't realize post merging doesn't work on mobile zz
[General Topics] vetvito:
Ok postpaid users, what if you decide to switch carriers, or you dont want your service anymore?

How much do those etf's cost, along with your subsidized phone?
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
What if you don't want your financed car? Or your house anymore? You sell your phone which pays the ETF. Then you can go wherever you want. If I sold my Nexus today, I would have around a $250 - $300

ETF. I'd end up leaving with money in my pocket.

Edit: Or I'd perform an assumption of liability change. Say a buddy needs service for a few months. Takes about 10 minutes. No ETF's

Edit2: Or if I didn't need the service for a few months, I'd suspend the line for that time and pick up where I left off when I needed it a few months down the road.

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] thebobp:
You'd have to then get a new phone, and that can cost anywhere from $100 to $300, even with a contract.*

So total cost of termination ends up between $350-$600, plus the cost of another lock-in. Without another lock-in, buying an unlocked phone for $500-$800 would drive the termination cost to $750-$1100. This is on top of the extra fees you were incurring the whole time.

*Assuming you want something fairly new. You could get away with less if you buy an old/unpopular model, I guess.
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
Nope, I'd be where any prepay customer would be. Buy my phone retail and start my prepay plan. Exactly the way I'm sure you did it, and exactly the way most prepay customers do it.

I can start the prepay route at any point. I choose not too because I'm happy with the service/price/subsidized phone I currently have.....or I'd just pay the $250 ETF and now I have a phone I purchased for less then half of what you would have purchased it for.

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] thebobp:
See my edit. Having to buy a new, unlocked phone drives up the effective termination cost even more, naturally.
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
You can't factor in a new device for a new service plan inside the termination fees of the old service plan. Your not comparing apples to apples here.

What if you wanted to ditch your prepay for say Verizon service? Could you do it without purchasing a new device? No

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] thebobp:
You said to sell your old device. Unless you've decided to stop using phones entirely, there is a cost in selling that device: you have to buy a new one.

True, there's an extra cost associated with switching to Verizon.

Don't confuse this with an extra cost associated with switching plans in general, though. As long as you can still use your old phone with the new carrier, you wouldn't have to buy a new one. Thus, it wouldn't cost a new phone to switch.

GSM phones are (if I understand correctly), much more amenable to this: you just pop in your new carrier's sim card and you're good to go.
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
I think you are missing the argument. If I walk away from my contract dead even as stated in the previous post (I'd actually come out ahead but let's just say even) and move to a prepay, I'm not spending any more money than you did. I affectively got out of my contract and switched to prepay, not spending any more than any other prepay user when they started prepay. Yes, I would have to purchase a device before I start the prepay. You purchased a device for prepay did you not? Now we are apples to apples.......or I could leave verizon right now and go to Straight talk with my nexus and would have paid less than you did on the same device only I'd have the 32GB version, you'd have a 16GB version. So I would be ahead of you.

I purchased the nexus for $150 off letstalk. Pay the $250 ETF. Now I have a Galaxy Nexus for $400 bucks. No prepay user can boast that deal.

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
Simply put, carrier contracts are not concrete. Anyone with a top tier device can get out of them and financially be ahead. Its when you talk about contracts with individuals that have a basic talk and text phone with a $300 ETF thats when things get a little murky. You will lose your argument every time with me and my Nexus.

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] AlwaysDroid:
I wish it was cheaper here in canada. We get ripped off really bad. The plans are way to expensive. Like i was someone talking about 70 buck for unlimited talk/text and 5gigs data?!?!?! 70 bucks here gets you 150min , unlimited text and 2gigs, if your lucky. It is VERY sad and quite frankly pisses me off. Hence the reason i have a smartphone without a data plan. Im getting my first job soon though, hopefully I can get data with my own money. Mom will be only pay $35 a month :p
[General Topics] thebobp:
If you really want to go down this route, you're going to have to start learning about opportunity costs. You're only able to make that argument because you've been ignoring them.

That is, the cost of that Galaxy Nexus is not only the sum of the listed prices, but also the extra that letstalk is able to charge you each month from doing this. You can be guaranteed (since carriers are sane) that:

(extra amount paid per month)*(number of months you've been in contract) + (termination fee at the time) > stock phone price

by a large margin. Anything else would make no business sense for precisely the reason that you suggest: the user could enter in and leave with a profit.

That said, it has occasionally happened that

(extra amount paid per month)*(all months) < stock phone price

by about $10-$20. The carrier might be willing to pay you $10-$20 for being locked-in for two years, so to speak. (This is, of course, not the case with your earlier examples, or any of the ones from this thread, so it's not particularly relevant to us. You can tell because, for one, the cost of such a contract would be less than the cost of prepaid + phone, which hasn't happened yet by a large margin.

Furthermore, even the very-very-late termination fees still exceed this benefit, because, as I said, carriers are sane.)

Edit: Think about it. If you got your Galaxy Nexus for free and could terminate for $10 after a month, but then the carrier charges $1 billion a month, would you still think your Nexus only costed $10?
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
Your basing your current argument on the assumption that holes do not exist in the system. Letstalk does not add any more cost to the monthly bill. Their business model is simple. Take the margin hit on the individual sale but make up for it in volume of sales. The only stipulation purchasing a contract device with them is that I have to stay on contract for 6 months. Which I'm a stones throw away from.

Getting back to your argument that started all of this....yes I can get out of contract and switch to prepay for minimal extra cost if any. Pretty sure that's been proven.

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
People don't blindly sign a contract with a carrier if they don't believe they are not getting value for their money. I pay $90 for hands down the best service, best CS, best speeds in the country. The value is definitely there. Switching to prepay would diminish my cost but would also diminish service,CS, and my LTE speeds. I'm not saying prepay is not worth it for many people, only that its largely situation based.

Edit: your "opportunity cost" is severely flawed. The extra cost associated with contract carriers is for the better service, CS, data speeds, and a smaller part-subsidy offsets. I'm getting the value for my money.

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] thebobp:
Nope. Getting out of contract requires that you sell the Nexus that you've just significantly overpaid for, and then buy a new phone.

On the other hand, getting into prepaid (assuming you don't already have a previous phone) requires only buying a new phone.

---------- Post added at 02:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:51 AM ----------

As I said in my very first post: if you're picky (i.e. you literally can't stand even the second-best service) then it may well be worth it.

In general, however, people aren't that picky.

Edit: This is, however, irrelevant to the issue of cost. The Galaxy Nexus still costs whatever extra Verizon is able to squeeze you from being in the contract. Whether you get sufficient benefit from having one and being on the rate plan is a different story entirely.

For example, you might sign on to the free Nexus, $10 termination, $1 billion/month plan if you really did get that much benefit from it. This doesn't mean the Nexus doesn't cost that much: indeed, it costs quite an insane amount.
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
I just told you I could keep the nexus and switch to straight talk prepay and save $150 from what you would pay just purchasing the device at retail.

$550 retail - $250 ETF - $150 initial investment = $150 in my pocket + kept the phone

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
I can't get any more clear for you. Reread my posts. Perhaps you will understand.

I think we hijacked this thread long enough.

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
Going to a prepay plan with the carriers most prepay users use would probably take me down to the 4th or 5th best service (and that's generous). Quite a leap.

***But I'm sure worth it for some. I'm not trying prepay bash. Just contrasting big 3 carriers vs the tower renters.

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] thebobp:
See the edit: I was wrong in my initial analysis.

If straight talk is the next-best alternative for you, and charges $45/month, that means the opportunity cost (of not getting into Straight Talk up front) is ($90/month - $45/month) = $45/month. After six months, that is $270, or, adding it to your listed costs, $120 more spent on getting this phone the longwinded way.

Is it worth it? That's for you to decide.

Edit: These numbers doesn't come from magic. Say you just bought a Nexus right away and went into straight talk (this is your "alternative option"). Your total would be: $550 (retail) + ($45/month)*6 months = $820.

On the other hand, with the indirect termination route: $150 (initial investment) + ($90/month)*6 months + $250 (ETF) = $940. In other words, $120 more than using the direct route.

So no, I'm not just "comparing apples to oranges", as you seem to be wont to suggest. I'm just keeping track of all the costs of your method.
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
It is worth it to me to be able to go anywhere with great reception, a very helpful customer service, and fastest data speeds. For some others perhaps not.

Btw, if we took the value at the time I purchased the device ($650), I'm only paying $20 extra (for the full 6 months) for far better service. Worth it once more

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] thebobp:
Just found this additional issue to switching Verizon -> Straight Talk:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120102174220AAsi5R0

While your new idea avoids the cost of having to sell your existing phone + buy a new one, apparently Verizon CDMA does not play very well with Straight Talk's. (Though they have a conversion program for AT&T or T-Mobile's GSM.)

There are ways around it, I suppose, but they get very hacky. I would say the effective cost for this particular conversion is back to your original sell-rebuy idea, or in other words $750-$1100 minus whatever you can sell it for.

---------- Post added at 04:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 AM ----------

I just realized another weird distinction to make: what we've been discussing for the last page (whether or not getting a phone this way or that way is more worth it going month for month) is academic, i.e. irrelevant to the original question.

The question: how much does it cost you to actually switch?

This has nothing to do with whether you got whatever benefit from whatever plan beforehand. The question is: how much to actually make the switch?

The answer: termination fees + (cost of buying a new phone if needed - cost of selling the old phone if needed).

If you have some kind of master plan from the start, then perhaps what we've been discussing would be relevant: how much your master plan costs, etc. But we don't make these decisions six months in advance. When you're in the middle of a contract, and need to ask yourself whether to switch, what happened before doesn't matter. Whatever costs you'd incurred before are sunk, and whatever benefits you'd gotten before already happened. The only question on your decision-making mind then is: how much to switch?

And that's the answer. I've been quite an idiot (my $750-$1100 - [amount you can sell it for] figure was right all along; go figure).
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
Well I suppose I would probably sell my nexus, pocket the $100 after the ETF, and buy a phone that is compatible with whichever prepay carrier I choose. Once again, at that point I'd be spending the same amount anyone else on prepay would for a phone minus $100. Still making out.

But this scenario is pure hypothetical. I don't plan to switch anytime soon. More than happy on contract. Well worth the additional $400 bucks over the 20 month upgrade term for the network coverage, CS, and data speeds.

(Previously posted the math earlier today)

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel