yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[General Topics] thebobp:
So you're assuming you can sell the nexus for ETF + $100? I guess $350-$400 is not too much of a stretch for a six-month phone. The cost of switching would then effectively be $400-$700 for purchasing a "normal-ranged" $500-800 phone.

The only mistake you're making is comparing it to "the amount anyone else on prepay would make". This depends wildly on, for example, whether they're buying a phone at all. If they already have a usable phone, for example, then their cost of doing whatever they're doing now would be $0.

(I explain more in my edit above, but basically: the "cost" of purchasing their current phone is a sunk cost, and won't affect their decision-making in any way. Your situation, on the other hand, has the real possibility of keeping you in an unhappy situation, simply because the $400-$700 cost is not worth correcting it.)

In other words, the question isn't really about rationalizing your overall decisions (as we've been making it about), but whether your current decisions, now, make sense. Once you've signed that contract, your incentives have been perversed: you're no longer working solely toward your own happiness (but toward the $400-$700 loss avoidance as well), and whether or not the other guy is paying $0 or $10,000 has no bearing on this fact.
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
Ah, gotcha. I was figuring a prepay user would keep up to date with their device. Wasn't really thinking the any device will do mentality. In that case, I have a GSM, Nexus S phone laying around. Guess my cost to switch is now 0 with a crisp $100 bill in my pocket. Or if I didn't have a GSM device laying around, I can probably by one off Craigslist for $50 bucks. Still $50 in the positive with 0 cost.....or if I was coming from AT&T, it would cost me whatever the ETF is. $100 -$300. And keep my phone.

It would appear that your numbers are way off kind sir.

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
Perhaps the equation should look like this for contract to prepay:

(ETF) - (Cell phone value if not compatable with prepay service) + (New device if needed) = 0-$500

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] thebobp:
This is part of the point. The prepaid user can do whatever the hell he wants. Buy a new phone every month, buy a new phone every 5 years, it's all up to his preferences.

Do you have an "any device will do" mentality? Don't just be like Shinji and do what everyone else tells you to; as I keep saying, it doesn't matter what the other guy happens to be doing!

Obviously one's personal cost of switching can vary wildly, and yes, it depends on whether you have previous devices that you're willing to switch to.
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
I have no idea what this means.

Anyway, you do know that a contract consumer can switch devices at any point as well by paying retail. That's not a prepay only thing.

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] thebobp:
Sure, and irrelevant. The question was: how much does it cost to switch to prepaid. Unfortunately, the answer was so simple that I'd got the specific case right within a single post, you got the general case right in post #78, and everything else in between is just junk.
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
I'm getting tired of this back and forth. Agree to disagree bro.

I'm still right though. :D

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] thebobp:
Actually, we're in complete agreement.

Edit: To anyone who gives a crap, the answer is:

termination fee - (price for selling carrier phone, if incompatible) + (cost of buying a compatible phone, if desired)
[General Topics] vetvito:
Some people like corn chips, some people dont.
[General Topics] johnny893:
Well, what I do in Australia is buy a subsidised phone from the carriers (cost around $200), flashed stock firmware, root it, unlock the phone with bml5 file in the phone, then choose any carrier and use prepaid. 5Gigs of internet for only a $29 recharge is great (charged in 1mb blocks, still good nonetheless).
[General Topics] xaccers:
Don't you still have to pay the contract monthly charges or termination fee?

Back 10 or so years ago when the UK tariff options were as complicated as the US ones now seem to be (or maybe ours were worse back then) a clever chap wrote a bit of software to work out what was the best deal for each customer, he built it into a PC booth and sold it to the independent retailers like carphone warehouse. Made himself an absolute fortune.
[General Topics] johnny893:
No contracts, no nothing. It's Pay as you Go basically, except in Australia we have good phones on prepaid.
[General Topics] FourQ:
Surely this all depends on what sort of deal you're getting?

I have a contract with Orange that they're desperate to get me off. I get 25 hours of calls for £15 a month. By the time I've added a data bundle it's £20 in total.

The thing is, by paying £25 a month (and missing two months payments each year) when it comes to upgrade time they only see me paying £25 a month and I get a better deal when it comes to upgrade time.

The only downside is that the paperwork will only recognise 18/24 month contracts. Because mine is an old 12 month contract we simply amend the paperwork before I sign it.

I wanted the SGS2 as the camera is better than the Nexus. Orange wanted £200 (unless I changed contract), the next phone shop gave me it for free! That's all of my calls, my internet and the S2 for a total of £250. How precisely am I being ripped off?
[General Topics] justinhforsyth:
AT&T Subsidized Phone: $200

AT&T Plan: $110/mo * 24 months (contract)

Lower resale value

Locked OS features

Bloatware

Total: $2640

vs.

Unlocked International Phone: $600

Straight Talk AT&T Towers Plan: $45/mo * 24 months (no contract)

Higher resale value

All features unlocked

No bloatware

Total: $1680

So on a major carrier, you're taking what is essentially a $400 loan at the time of purchase. You then pay off that loan, and pay about $1000 in interest during the contract period. LOL.

And this isn't even taking into account the profit that Straight Talk has to make. If AT&T sold SIMs to consumers at the price they sell them to Straight Talk (just a middle man in this equation), then the contract-free, subsidy-free model would be even cheaper.
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR PEOPLE

Everyone just needs to read user reviews about Straight Talk. Then run as far away as you can. For ****s and giggles, i went through their user agreement and a multitude of reviews.

Here is the general rundown of reviews:

1.)Atrocious customer service

2.)Atrocious data connection and data speeds

3.)Voice seems to be OK but many complain of dropped calls.

4.)Price is great though.

Take a look at the reviews and come to your own conclusion: straighttalkreviews.net

Prepay users keep insisting on using Straight Talk as their primary argument because its the cheapest thing out there. There's no mention of the horrid service when compared to postpaid. But everyone has their preference. I guess if your saving money, it doesn't matter how the service is.

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] xaccers:
Ah a subsidised payg phone :)

Over here the high end phones aren't generally subsidised on payg (actually nor are many low end phones on payg)
[General Topics] FxNL:
What, paying for adding 2 more years to your contract? That's insane :eek:

But ah well, as long as people actually pay it, why shouldn't they...
[General Topics] thebobp:
Guess they were counting on the lock to make sure you only used it on their carrier?

Good deal, I guess.

sent from my Terran Command Center.
[General Topics] sreza:
This is what you do to shaft ATT and get the best deal possible.

1) Buy an iPhone 2g.

2) Get a sim card from an ATT store and insert it in the iPhone.

3) Activate the iPhone, which will automatically put you on the "iPhone 2g unlimited data + 200 texts for $20" plan

4) Go to an ATT Store, tell them you want to upgrade your device.

5) Pick your phone, set up your contract, iPhone 2g plan gets upgraded to "Smartphone Personal" plan, which is unlimited data for $30.

6) Re-Sell the iPhone

7) Install 3rd party messaging apps

8) Get a Skype account with unlimited calling to all US and Canada numbers for $3 per month.

You are now paying $33 a month for unlimited calling, data, and messaging. "Smartphone Personal" grandfathers in for all future upgrades and includes all ATT data networks (including LTE) and the only restriction is a data choke down to 3g speeds once you hit 5 gigabytes in a month. This is my setup.

Optional 9) Upgrade to a LTE Padfone and have that Smartphone Personal plan cover both your smartphone, and a tablet, and a netbook. ^_^
[General Topics] adelmundo:
I heard they closed that loophole with the original iPhone.
[General Topics] :
Horrid customers services is based by users. You can be living in the boondocks. When no carrier coverage is good. Why would you pay more? For service that won't be better with any company?

I personally don't use straight Talk but I can find about the same amount of reviews for tmobile, sprint, at&t, and Verizon. Which all give them bad reviews. So if I was on Verizon and paid high monthly bill I get what I pay for if their service sucks for me?

That's essentially what your saying. Which can be said for any company. Point is your better staying off contract unless your grandfather in to the old past good phone plans carriers use to have.
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
Find a reputable Verizon review website that gives equally harsh reviews. And how am I better without contract? Don't give me the same old cheap is better BS please.....also, seeing that you don't put any stock in user reviews, how do you decide what service to try? Just jump in and hope you float? Probably a good thing you don't do contracts.

If your not going to back up your claims don't post them.

Prepay users on XDA are passionate about their budget cutting decision. But if you are going to preach about how amazing it is, don't let its cheapness be the only argument. I don't care if you are only paying $1 per month, if the service itself is subpar, its not worth it for most people.

Edit: I am not trying to bash prepay. For the individual plan, it is cheaper than postpaid. However, you do sacrifice some service for that price. That works for some and doesn't for others. Its that simple.

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] :
An easy Google search will bring up conusmer reports bad reviews for every company. Literally using generic words like why this company is better than this company. Will bring you up reviews. If your grandfather in too those nice plans. Then it may be good for you a contract. Not every prepaid service is bad. Not every contract service is bad.

To add to this any one can give a bad reviews or good review no site is actually reputable because all that matters if your in the service area.

Most bad reviews come from billing errors. Which consumers don't have a full understanding of their bill. Something wrong with their phone which they get outsource to other countries all the phone companies do this. Just because you never heard or had of problems doesn't mean they are not problems. Essentially like walking in a store every place may give you different service when you walk in.

If you travel outside the USA a lot a no contract is better for you as well. But that's like saying well as long as I'm in my coverage area I should get a contract. So if sprint tmobile, at&t, Verizon. Are all good in my area I should just go and pay more because that one company may have slightly better coverage in areas I'm not going to go?

This matters more for gsm users as we can sell the phone for more. then cdma users.
[General Topics] MissionImprobable:
Haven't been much on Apple anyway, but interesting to see that they are one of the two main factors in costs going up. Not sure if this has already been posted here or not, but it's certainly interesting.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/08/technology/iphone_carrier_subsidy/index.htm
[General Topics] :
Good example subsidies raise plan prices regardless you get the iphone or not. If carriers didn't have subsidies you would see plans 50% cheaper than what they already are. It also saves money by having carriers not having to deal with phone problems. So all the money they are getting can be used on improving the network and giving more features on a plan. If a carrier that doesn't subsidize the phone. It saves them money. They don't have to pay insurance to some other company either because that is your device you can just deal straight with the phone manufacturer.

The data plans would be better cheaper give more data for less. Less outages. You essentially be calling for service problems not phone problems.Which would lead to less outsourcing.
[General Topics] benson12:
The problem is that in that example, the carriers become dumb pipes, which they do not want. They want to lock you in to a contract and keep you for as long as possible. Their strategy is to lure you in with a cheap phone ($200 is less than $650 in the case of an iPhone 4s) or even a free phone and get you to pay for their services like text messaging plans and data plans and whatnot.

I get the carrier's issue, they want to make money and if they are dumb pipes, they are essentially a utility - nothing to differentiate the AT&T from the Verizon. Well in my opinion, they would differentiate by coverage, plans, features and customer service. Being a customer, I want cheaper service and more choices. I want to be able to bring my phone to whichever carrier, I want to be able to switch carriers at a moments notice.
[General Topics] thebobp:
If you think about it, a website with all bad reviews is pretty suspicious.

The review sites linked to from here: http://www.consumersearch.com/prepaid-cell-phone-plans/straight-talk likely give a more representative set of opinions. Skimming through them gives a good sense of a consensus as well: well-worth it if it works, bad customer service if it doesn't.

I would say the reverse: jumping into a 2-year contract is awfully foolish when your best sources of information are internet reviews that may not even apply to your area. When your information is so sparse, a prepaid without any commitment makes a lot more sense.

---------- Post added at 04:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:46 AM ----------

This is actually a slightly different (and funny) issue: I've commented on it before:

In short, the iPhone buyer actually gets more in subsidies than with another phone (due to Apple's market power), and naturally, these subsidies are sponsored by everyone else (via carrier price hikes, benefits reductions, reduced investment), the difference going to Apple.

This is, however, part of the social cost of subsidizing phones/perverting incentives, not the costs that directly affect a user's decision.
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
A website with all bad reviews normally would absolutely be suspicious. And with all honesty, people that are upset with a company or service are far more likely to post comments than people that are happy. That's why I had to read over 100 of them to get a general idea of the Straight Talk service. However, id estimate 70/30 split, unhappy vs happy. The website I posted actually seems fairly impartial and credible. It wasn't www.ihatestraighttalk.com it was www.straighttalkreviews.net.

What I neglected to post was the terms and conditions of use:

STRAIGHT TALK UNLIMITED TALK AND TEXT PLAN FEATURES INTENDED USE: Straight Talk Unlimited talk and text plans may ONLY be used with a Straight Talk handset for the following purposes: (i) Person to Person Voice Calls (ii) Text and Picture Messaging (iii) Internet browsing through the Straight Talk Mobile Web Portal and (iv) Authorized Content Downloads from the Straight Talk Mobile Web Store. The Straight Talk Unlimited talk, text and data plans MAY NOT be used for any other purpose. Examples of prohibited uses include, without limitation, the following: (i) continuous mobile to mobile or mobile to landline voice calls; (ii) automated text or picture messaging to another mobile device or e-mail address; (iii) uploading, downloading or streaming of audio or video programming or games; (iv) server devices or host computer applications, including, but not limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, automated machine-to-machine connections or peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing; or (v) as a substitute or backup for private lines or dedicated data connections. This means, by way of example only, that checking email, surfing the Internet, downloading legally acquired songs, and/or visiting corporate intranets is permitted, but downloading movies using P2P file sharing services and/or redirecting television signals for viewing on laptops is prohibited. A person engaged in prohibited uses may have his/her service terminated without notice or a refund.

Basically, the terms of service state that talk and text are unlimited as long as its "within reason". The data, although it states unlimited, is not. Per another thread.....from a Straight talk user, anything over 2-4GB of data use is construed as excessive and will have warnings or cancellations (I'll try to find his post and paste it in this thread). There is also huge stipulations on what data they will not allow you to use. This includes: No streaming music (Pandora), No steaming movies (Netflix, crackle, and YouTube), No torrents, and No Tethering. Of course there are more stipulations implied, but these are some of the biggest ones. If you violate these stipulations, you will be warned or your line will be cancelled.

I'm sorry but HOW IS THIS "FREEDOM"?

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
I don't mean to play devils advocate but this is the best way for people to more thoroughly understand the differences between prepay and postpay. I know the title of this thread. And I realize it attracts diehard prepay users. But for the inquisitive, I am attempting to throw out the other side of the story for a broader look at the subject. One of the great things about XDA is that most veteran members don't just post conjecture. Solid evidence is provided or proof is based off off the noted members credibility.

I try to post proof of my claims. Or at least reason my views through healthy debate. I'm always open for a verbal scuffle. As long as its useful to other XDA members. If I seem rude in any of my posts, I apologize. Unless your being an idiot, its uncalled for. Sometimes when emphasizing, things can translate rudely.

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] Skv012a:
The way I see it- get THE best phone w/ 2 years. Unlock/debrand/root. Sell. Buy whatever fits the profit - costs involved that the carrier never had/network can recognize. In case of ATT, use as a "dumb" phones paying way less for data. ?????. Profit.
[General Topics] thebobp:
Strange because:

1) in the front page of your website, there were what, 2-3 good/neutral reviews out of 40?

2) the proportion is much higher on the review sites I linked to.

3) www.straighttalk.net actually links to "erectile dysfunction". But more to the point, someone making a biased site doesn't have to name it as non-subtly as ihatex.com, you know.

Okay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qv_UIeAqFE#t=1m10s

The fact is, companies put all sort of crap in their TOS (tethering being the most notorious one). The actual measure of what you can do, however.. is what you can do. That, you can't actually know until you try (bringing a Nexus with a Youtube app, for instance).

And, unlike the case with contracts where you're stuck for two years based on initial first impressions, if the service turns out too crappy for you (for whichever reason, not just random clauses found in their TOS), you quit.
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
My fault. The website is www.straighttalkreviews.net

As far as getting reviews from a site named ihatestraighttalk.com, it was obviously an exaggerated response to note where not to go. I would also consider "for profit" sites like the one you listed as possibly not credible due to the nature of "for profit" sites in general. I will try to be more explicit and spell things out better so you can follow next time.

Hahaha, excuses. So any reviews that goes against your prepay is bias and does not count? ....because they are obviously created by the contract carriers to bring down this amazing service? Bull ****.......I'm just trying to rationalize your rejection of the site due to too many bad reviews.

Oh gotcha. Ignore a companies TOS because they never enforce their rules, they are just for show? Good advice. Your stretching for an argument and failing miserably. This is the type of baseless conjecture I was talking about in my previous post.

Btw, with the contract carriers you do have 14 days to test the service. But let's be honest, any big 3 carrier blows away the prepay subcarriers in every facet of service. I'd be better off blindly signing a contract with any of the big 3 than counting on this prepay company to deliver anything close to the service I expect from a telecommunications company. And this is one of the top prepay companies in the US.......but once more, to each their own.

Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
[General Topics] thebobp:
By using an exaggerated example, you've completely missed the reasons for suspicion that aren't exaggerated. Now, I don't know if there's a master conspiracy (as you've, no doubt once again exaggerated) or if that site's just not commonly visited by the folk who'd give it positive reviews, but what's for sure is that you won't get a through perspective from visiting that website.

All that it's really good for is confirmation bias, which I guess suits your purposes perfectly.

You are mistaken: I linked to a list of review sites. The customer reviews on all listed sites were remarkably consistent (and nowhere near as lopsided as yours').

Actually, yes. If a company tolerates or really doesn't care about what the user does, then nobody cares what's on the TOS. On the other hand, if a company decides to throttle you (think AT&T), then what's on the TOS won't make an iota of difference.

(Fact: they have better lawyers than you.)

sent from my Terran Command Center.
[General Topics] Aerocaptain:
Here is the Adelmundo's post on a different thread basically confirming Straight talks TOS practices.

"although they advertise as Unlimited everything, there are some caveats to what "unlimited" really means. The voice and texting for the most part is unlimited, but there is no roaming I believe. Where the problem lies is the data part of unlimited. In their TOS, you are not allowed to stream music or video (like YouTube, Netflix, Pandora, etc.) Some people have been given warnings and have even had their SIM deactivated when they used to much data. On the safe side, some people have gone by the under 100 MB/day or 2 GB/month of data use to be safe. No one knows exactly what Straight Talk's criteria is or how they can determine if you're streaming or not. Most times they will give you a warning or 2 before they cut you off. If you look in howardforums.com, there are threads about Straight Talk, but as I have said, know one knows their exact criteria is"

It appears to me that Straight Talk does in fact enforce the policies they setup in their TOS. Strange a company would do that ay?

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