yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows 8 General] dazza9075:
Yeah I read the blog the other day, its very confusing

if you have Win 8 and want WMC you need to get the "pro pack"

If you have Win 8 Pro and want WMC you need to get the "Media Pack"

Whats unclear is does the pro pack upgrade your whole OS to pro, in which case its not going to be cheap, and if it doesn't upgrade the whole OS to pro then why call the Update Pro, which in either case, ironically doesn't have the WMC in anyway!

It also didn't say anything about upgrades removing WMC, I asked the question but alas no answer as yet

Im not especially bothered about WMP, Its been pretty crap (as a video player) for years

The funny thing with DVD playback is that its expensive to do it legally.

Ive been having an argument with Linux lovers on another forum about this as they seem to think they are above the law.

To play a DVD on a computer or a standalone DVD player requires a licence. Yes there are "free" software choices out there, MPC and VLC being two of them, but it doesn't make it any less illegal. The mere fact you may live in a country that doesn't allow prosecution for such things still doesn't mean its ethically right, as any form of DVD playback should have permission from the technology owners.

If you buy a hardware dvd player, they will have paid for the right to play those DVDs, the cost would have most likely been passed on to you. Its the same for software. The issue MS has is that it couldn't just do it anyway as the fine would be astronomical, you think that MS has what 90% market share, 30/40% of that is Windows 7, that's a huge figure, in the hundreds of millions of PCs, potentially MS could be liable for every computer effected by it.

Open source Linux has significantly less, its also questionable how much using it is down to the user or the OS, does shipping the software imply they are responsible or does the user clicking on the button "its my fault" clear the distros of responsibility.

these organisations wouldn't have much in the way of cash to hand over if they were sued and finally many of the software solutions for Linux to play DVDs are conveniently located in countries that couldn't give a funk about it being legal or not....

To be honest I have no idea how much a licence costs, ive heard everything from a few pence to £50, I guess the only way we will know if this is cost effective is if the price of Windows drops by a notable amount.
[Windows 8 General] AmericanDane:
An "app" is a standalone, simple, limited purpose, quick and easy means of getting some info. They're well suited to tablets and phones since they have a simple set of commands and they don't require much input since they are meant to display information already created by others - usually on a Windows PC.

If it can be done as an "app" it's a bit like the sidebar stuff. Nifty looking clocks and stock trackers, but not really for anyone serious about what they are doing.
[Windows 8 General] dazza9075:
I agree with your definition of app but I beg to differ about its potential uses.

if I want to see what emails I have or what information a program has for me to view, why loadup the whole program when a simple tile displaying key relevant info could be used to much better effect, if I then see that I need to use the full program then I can load it up as normal. Personally I just find it much quicker once you set them up, I mean, you push the windows button and potentially your then given up to 24 different pieces of information at a glance, push it again an your back to work....
[Windows 8 General] Rakeesh_j:
I think it is, namely because they do clean room reverse engineering and write their codecs from scratch. Also, why should we have to pay somebody to enjoy content that we already purchased a license for? Furthermore, programs like XBMC do a much better job of DVD and even blu-ray playback than any commercial player I've seen, not to mention their user interface is a hell of a lot better.

I've had copies of powerdvd, arcsoft tmt, and windvd, they are all crap.

One thing that is particularly annoying for me is how my cable provider sticks the 0x02 CCI flag on all channels just because they can, when no other cable providers do. That forces me to use WMC, and WMC is the most buggy POS I've ever used. It crashes all the time, stops responding to remote commands, even loses signal for no apparent reason (how the **** you lose signal on cable is beyond me,) and will at random times tell me that my hardware is incapable of playing protected content, even though most of the time it works fine.

I briefly convinced them to drop the CCI flag, but that only lasted for a week. During that time I used mythtv, it worked great. However now I'm stuck with the POS known as WMC again, and worse is that when windows 8 comes, I'll actually have to pay money for that garbage.
[Windows 8 General] sitizenx:
Pirate bay

Don't know if that is a WMC problem. I use it all the time. I record OTA programs and it works beautifully. I watch them in the living room through my Xbox 360. The thing is flawless. Much better video quality than cable or internet HD. 1080i OTA is great. Only thing better is bluray.

Making us pay extra for WMC just means I hang on to Windows 7 64 bit longer. It works. No need for an update. I kind of predict a Vista situation. Win 7 works so well most of us have no reason to try something radically different.

Anyway worst case scenario there is always pirate bay. If they want to play hard ball I am more than willing to get down in the gutter with them.
[Windows 8 General] dazza9075:
Through a bizzar serious of digital querks that's not the case. you buy a DVD, yes you have the licence to view that content for personal use only, but you don't have the licence to decode that content, to do that you must use software or hardware to decode it and that requires a licence. I can promise you that all commercial DVD players have to pay up front for the right to decode DVD content. Reverse engineering is still taking someones technology without consent.

Think of it this way, the reason MS doesn't have BD playback on the xbox is not because they really dont like Sony its because it costs them to licence that playback....any they really don't like Sony :D

WMC works fine for TV with me but I use Arcsoft for DVD playback as its upscale works great for DVDs and ive never had any BD issues either, you perhaps have some driver issues or hardware conflicts.
[Windows 8 General] ohgood:
You buy a dvd, and a dvd player or burner. What rediculous line of thinking is used to imagine having to pay yet again for "rights" to play the dvd ?

Let's say your way of believing is sound and just. Hollywood changes their collective mind, and decides to squeeze you a little more: you must now buy a yearly license to watch dvds, anywhere. No license, you're breaking the law. Is it still a sane line of thought ?
[Windows 8 General] dazza9075:
Its nothing to do with Hollywood, they change you for the content.

But the ability to playback that content must be licenced, that's not to you by the way, the licence is to whoever makes the hardware or software to play back the content. The cost of that licence will however be passed down to the user in one form or another.

Getting this back on topic, MS has apparently decided NOT to buy the licence to enable WMP to playback DVDs, thus DVD support has been pulled in WMP, WMC is a chargeable add-on, within the charge will be the cost of the DVD playback licence.
[Windows 8 General] jasongw:
www.shark007.net. Bam, DVD playback returns, free of charge.

Stop *****ing.
[Windows 8 General] dazza9075:
and pleas get some respect, you clearly have no idea of whats going on so don't tell me to stop my *****ing, which im clearly not.

I don't use WMC or WMP for DVD or Blu-ray playback, so I couldn't care less. The point is

A, I hope there is a notable drop in price considering that they are no longer paying for playback licences.

B, and a secondary point is that using many "free" playback option is most likely going to be breaking the law or at the very least not crediting the people who own the right to playback DVDs etc, as any legitimate playback device or software will be paying for a licence.
[Windows 8 General] Rakeesh_j:
There won't be. Microsoft is simply dropping them because it doesn't really add any value to their product, so they may as well save the money to add to their bottom line.

And honestly, I don't blame them.
[Windows 8 General] dazza9075:
Im sceptical to the savings as well on the desktop, where it may be more visible is in RT.

If MS hasn't realised, Price is going to be king! if they can drive the price point down to match Android ARM then it will nail it. I actually don't think there has ever been a Microsoft release that is so heavily dependant on its price point, ARM I mean, x86 is a different kettle of fish altogether.
[Windows 8 General] ttouch:
"the first dramatic jump in UI design in the last 3 decades" Oh, come on!

Have you EVER tried Linux? I have been using Linux as Desktop. NOWHERE near Win/Mac UI. ok maybe some parts.

Now, i use Arch linux & Gnome 3...

what about Xfce? LXDE? KDE? other GUIs?

only apple and micro$oft? :\

I want to try Win8 in a VM... I like new things!

However, has anybody said about SECURITY FLAWS???

win generally, is the biggest and easiest target of a hacker (or even script kiddie)!

I can't forget the HUGE security flaws of Vista which where XP holes + 7 holes together...

Also administration? is it easy? for a power user, is it easy to do a thing without mouse/buttons/GUI??

in linux (and partially mac), when you can't do something with the GUI, you just do it by terminal

in win, when you can't do something with the GUI, you just don't do it...
[Windows 8 General] Rakeesh_j:
Actually that hasn't been true for a very long time.

All major platforms have many security holes. Windows has proven itself very secure by virtue of the fact that microsoft has been very responsive towards ongoing threats. The changes to windows vista brought about dramatic security enhancements of the underlying OS.

In fact most windows malware aren't vectored into the underlying OS itself, but rather vulnerable third party software such as java, flash, acrobat, etc. Whats interesting is that the design of the OS itself mitigates most of these vulnerabilities, so microsoft is even compensating for the mistakes of other companies.

Windows and Linux are roughly on par with one another in terms of security these days.

However windows has an advantage that other platforms do not: Antivirus software on the windows platform has a heuristics detection rate of 90% of undocumented threats. That is a rate most in the computer security field hadn't anticipated a few years ago. It is so high, that malware authors have begun to target something that is statistically "bigger and easier" to hit: Mac OSX.

Although OSX has a very tiny market share, the chances of a successful attack against mac users is high enough that it is a more attractive target than windows these days. Not only that, but apple is VERY SLOW when it comes to responding to malware threats. The last one took them two months to respond to. That is an eternity in the security field. In addition to that, most Mac OSX users tend to live under the belief that macs don't get hit by viruses (primarily because apple tells them this,) and likewise they don't protect themselves accordingly. Needless to say, this makes them very attractive targets for the criminal underground.

If you don't believe me though, then don't take my word for it. Just look at the results of the pwn2own contest year after year.
[Windows 8 General] gourav343:
gaming performence is much better then window 7

i love it on my dell inspiron 1545
[Windows 8 General] dazza9075:
you deserve a pint for such common sense that is rarely seen on forums
[Windows 8 General] ShadowEO:
Ok, Someone please explain to me why we're having rumors of the "Start Menu" coming back? My guess would be that it is extremely untrue. Having two things that preform the same function in an OS would increase bloat in the code. You can access all your normal "Start Menu" shortcuts from the Start Screen (As I explained in many a thread here, by right clicking on a spot that has no tile and clicking All Apps).

As with WMC going away... I can deal with that.. We have Metro Apps that can replace it already. (with the exception of LiveTV but I'm willing to bet that will be available sometime too.)

As for the OP (Since I missed half this thread...):

Windows 8 won't fail. Microsoft is too big to fail, Even if people are reluctant to try Windows 8, it will still not fail. Why? Because people continue buying it to try it, New programs will require Windows 8 to use, Life will go on.

Also, Windows 8 is perfect for Enterprises. It still has all the security Windows 7 had and more. Not to mention the Roaming Profiles support which is pretty awesome in itself. It's got everything there, the Communications apps like Calendar, Mail and Contacts support Microsoft Exchange, It still has the Group Policies support, and with a small amount of training that learning curve can be overthrown. The only reason you still see enterprises running 2000 or XP are because their IT department doesn't want to do the necessary training required to get employees started.

In addition, Windows 8 also provides a seamless unity between Xbox and Windows. Browsing the Marketplace via Xbox Live Games on Metro and find a Game you want? Hit Open on Xbox and it appears. Xbox Companion also acts as a remote control. Gamers will love it. I'm also fairly certain you do NOT have to be on the same network for this to work since you have to be signed in with your LIVE profile on both machines.. Restated: Not a bad system for gaming.

The Microsoft Live Metro Apps also bring a synchronized calendar, mail and contacts to your computer. I can make events on the Windows Calendar, have them show up on my phone. All without opening Google Calendar to do so. Same with having my GMail in the Mail app and Contacts in the People app. :)

Also, I feel I've stated this somewhere else, not sure but Windows 8 is great on Desktops. I've even hooked up a USB keyboard & mouse, a monitor and closed my laptop screen just so I could simulate it and it was quite enjoyable.

As Dazza has said, there is a noticeable learning curve in the Consumer Preview. However this learning curve can be mitigated by displaying a one-time "How to Use Windows 8" Tour (Anyone remember the "How to use Windows" tour that was on 3.1 up to ME? How about they bring that back for the RTM...)

TL;DR: It's not a bad system or a bad UI for Desktops and Laptops. If your complaining, it means you HAVEN'T used it enough to know all the little shortcuts and tricks to maximize your efficiency while using Metro.

To the tidal wave of FUD: Come at me bro. *waves hand like martial artist.*
[Windows 8 General] dazza9075:
I think the start button suggestion Is from no clear message from MS and blogs and second hand conversations stating that they removed the start button due to people falling back on it without trying metro properly in the DP.

Its a tough one, I don't see the need any more but there are a lot of legacy programs that might need it, ive pinned the desktop toolbar to the task bar and with a shortcut to the to start menu folder. essentially this gives you a start menu for older programs, for all I use it, I doubt the start button will be back but you never know, optional extra? dunno shall have to see. what the RCs bring.
[Windows 8 General] jp08:
win8

muddy everything with her, on the one hand a lot of good, on the other - just bad

I hope everything will soon become clear
[Windows 8 General] ShadowEO:
Agree, I'm anxiously awaiting the release candidate :-)
[Windows 8 General] DarkSeL:
I love metro UI on my WP, now trying on my laptop.

It looks good to me, but doesn't function as well as a desktop computer should. It keeps switching back and fourth between Metro and Aero, which is completely inconvenient.
[Windows 8 General] Rakeesh_j:
Well, being really big doesn't make you immune to failing. Look at Novell for example, they were the company when it came to networks. They died off, and now it's all about Cisco.
[Windows 8 General] c5satellite2:
Metro is a pain for an average user on desktop. It will be disabled on the high majority of desktops pretty quickly.
[Windows 8 General] Rakeesh_j:
Yeah I know I will. I get two free copies of pro when it comes out due to having access to ELMS (Dreamspark) and I do plan on upgrading because I like the backend changes, but if I can't disable metro I'll just stick with win 7.
[Windows 8 General] dazza9075:
Whats an average user?

My elderly Mum picked it up pretty well and is now really happy with it after a few weeks and, she has issues installing a printer

Id say im more of a power user and after a few weeks I picked it up and find myself being much more efficient.

So does that mean your "average" user is a user that sits in the middle, that knows just a bit more than a novice and less than a power user, both of which are capable of learning it pretty quick? If so then your suggesting that an average user is not as adapted to change as a novice and power user.

Perhaps its more simple than that, perhaps the average user who apparently cant pick this up knows a bit more than a novice to think they know everything but less than a power user who knows they dont....

Curious
[Windows 8 General] michiganenginerd:
DVD Playback - Codecs.

I see a lot of posts about that in this thread?

I assume if a pc manufacturer includes a dvd player, they can install the codec and WMP will be able to play it. Isn't that how it worked back in XP.

This will affect system builders, but I assume 99% of OEM will just install the playback drivers on machines that order a dvd drive, and not bother on machines that don't.

Also, states the manufacturer pays the fee, not MS. They may have asked for the change so they didn't end up paying $2 for every ultrabook and tablet for a feature the device can't use.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/how-...media-playback-features-really-cost/4977?pg=1

On a related note. Software patents are stupid.

---------- Post added at 04:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:06 PM ----------

My guess is because people can't see businesses rolling it out en-mass and having something different in front of their users. Most of the rumor's I've heard were that it would be something that could be disabled via domain policy.

I agree with you, but I can say that many of my coworkers without using it have looked and said 'oh that is different, DO NOT WANT.' I'm sure they will come around after a bit of exposure, but it is likely that response that leads to the rumor.
[Windows 8 General] ShadowEO:
I could see metro's appearance controlled by a group policy. Your also very right about it all. I'm sure after exposure people will find out it's not as bad a they've been led to believe. if not, there's always Windows 7 which I'm sure will have some of the changes made to 8 (kernel wise) backported as an update or service pack.
[Windows 8 General] dazza9075:
you know its Funny, some folk are getting all up in arms about the removal of the start menu. but guess what folks! the same conversations were happening when they added the start menu, its slow and inefficient they said :D

here is an example

https://groups.google.com/group/mic...hread/thread/304040cbadd095b7/1c3e5d65c6fe15d

Turns out they were right :D
[Windows 8 General] Adoxo:
I certainly will not fail.

Why?

M$ has billions and will push for it like they are doing with wp7. With so much money behind it, it's hard for a product like this to fail.

But it has a uphill battle to go through. Ipad starts from $400 and M$ needs a tablets at around that point to be competitive. The direct competitor to Ipad winRT, there is limited amount of apps. Like 20-30 at the moment, it will go up at launch but it needs time to catch up so its at a disadvantage and M$ needs to catchup. But it has all the necessary apps esp. office so its a start.

x86 tablets are going to be expensive and probably have poorer battery life and likely be Intel atom powered or AMD equivalent. Then there are hybrids laptop + touchscreen that will be unaffordable by mainstream like the samsung i5 one that M$ gave away with W8 CP.

IMO microsoft tablets won't have competitive advantage till 2013.
[Windows 8 General] thebobp:
How do you know that, if they're undocumented? :confused:
[Windows 8 General] adamscybot:
No, winRT is for ARM chips. They do not run on an x86 architecture and so will be neither intel or AMD. They are ARM based mobile processors and have been built for mobile from the very beginning.
[Windows 8 General] jasongw:
"Too big to fail" is too much a myth to be true :).

The notion of "too big to fail" is like the notion of "future proof." In order words, it's complete and total bull**** :p
[Windows 8 General] grimsonfart:
It have been mentioned several times that Windows 8 will and is designed for touch units
[Windows 8 General] jasongw:
Yes, it IS designed for touch devices. It's also designed for Mouse and Keyboard. Windows 8 is NOT about ejecting traditional input methods, it's about elevating new input methods to "first class" status for the first time in a full featured OS. Nobody's ever done this before; it has gobs of potential :)
[Windows 8 General] derpotato:
Windows 8 won't fail.

Why? Because, even though it got a new UI, the new UI only applies to the start menu . The rest is really similar. so for those who are old user from windows xp or less, will get used to this easily. And, the new user will find it user-friendly.

Windows 8 too have another reason it won't fail, because it got a new engine, that is light, and gives big performance improvement. plus, i heard they got rid of software compability issues by the new engine.

the only thing i dont like is that u need to use UEFI , not BIOS . so old computer will be having a hard time...
[Windows 8 General] Ballarous:
I am really excited about how windows 8 will inovate and I hope that it is a success
[Windows 8 General] ohgood:
I keep reading posts about "being much more efficient". What does that mean exactly, because its starting to sound like regurgitated marketspeak.
[Windows 8 General] dazza9075:
It means my dear friend, for those of us who treat free time as a luxury we often don't have enough of, increasing productivity, is doing more in less time means we can either have more free time, or get more work done by using that free time. Now I know your going to say how can saving 1 or 2 min here an there make much of a difference, well you'd be surprised. 1 or 2 min saved 5 times a day could give me an a hour by the end of a week. Quite often the gain is much larger when other factors are taken in to account. Now times that by say a small workforce of say 10 people, potentially from that very underestimated 1 or 2 min you've just saved 10 or more hours A week, 500+ hours a year, potential that's 3000 or more saved or put to use else where. Efficiency and productivity are king!

So that's why we like it, at a purely personal level it gives us free time to go to the pub an hour earlier :)
[Windows 8 General] ShadowEO:
Couldn't have said it better myself. It's actually alot faster to find and start applications along with gather information like instant messages, emails, calendar appointments, etc simply by looking at the lock screen or the start screen now.
[Windows 8 General] Not Truly Evil:
I will probably buy win8, because it has many nice features and functions... Many new games and programs will be optimized for win8 too...