yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[General Questions and Answers] trau89:
I would have to agree. dual is doing fine for me right now and after the initial release of quad, something more efficient will be out soon enough.
[General Questions and Answers] sreza:
Tegra 3 is better than the cores that came before it. As for how much better is the S4, read post #233 in this thread.
[General Questions and Answers] claud_face:
I'm assuming its too early to know but what do you think will be the difference between the quad A15 released later thus year and the Samsung quad core they plan on putting into their gs3?

I just read your long post and found it interesting and was just curious :)

Apologies if its a dumb question because maybe we don't even know which processor it is...

I remember reading they were choosing between two though
[General Questions and Answers] Lamperouge2:
quad core isn't always better than dual core, and vise versa. It all depends on how it is used and how much a specific piece of software was programmed correctly.
[General Questions and Answers] SteelToast:
Exactly! The Lumia 800/900 runs so smooth with not a hint of lag, despite its' so-called 2010 specs. Software optimization is key. Microsoft and even Apple has done it right. (Not so say Android has done it wrong, just that not as much as MS and Apple).
[General Questions and Answers] Lamperouge2:
And a lot of that has to do with the fact that Microsoft and Apple have close ties with processor engineers.
[General Questions and Answers] sreza:
Sorry, but at this point all we have are rumors of the chipset on the SIII. I'm really not all that interested in the SIII either, save from a purely academic standpoint. My heart belongs to the LTE Padfone, lol.

I will say though that if they release it with an A9 quad-core (which is unlikely, Exynos makes good chips), then I'll have roughly the same arguments against it as I do against Tegra 3. Going to the same car analogy I used before, a quad-core A15 chip would be taking Car 2 and revamping its engine to go 300 miles an hour like Car 1, but without sacrificing any of the benefits of Car 2. It would still be limited by the "speed limits" (Android environment), but the option is there to go faster.

Personally, I'm going to buy a future incarnation of the Padfone with a quad-core A15 chipset and hack Cornerstone or Windows 8 onto it and multitask the hell out of it. That's the only situation I can think of where multiple cores gives a tangible benefit in the Android ecosystem. ^_^
[General Questions and Answers] densetsu86:
Ok just want to say where is the info coming from and how trust worthy is it? Ie non bias info. Not a s4 krait site or apple or nvidia site.

I own a tegra 2 device (droidx2) and it is running leak stock 2.3.5 build .413 it is rooted as well.

Now tegra 2 on gingerbread (can't speak for ics but reading a couple threads sounds like it would be the same anyway) runs mainly on one core and turns on the 2nd core as needed. Even with benchmark tools like quadrant and smartbench 2012 says they are for dual core devices to give a more accurate reading i can say that, that is bull****.

Someone found and made a script for the dx2 to keep its second core on for as long as you need it. Basically giving the owner of the phone free reign over the dual core and overriding android/tegra2.

With doing so my scores are doubled in smartbench 2012 even though it claimed to use dual core it did not on tegra2. And ny turning it on my phone is snappier and very quick with barely any hickups hell my phone gets close to stock preformances of razr and droid4 at their 1.2ghz new and better cpus.

So my question is how do we know these benchmark tools for tegra 3 did not get ****ed up like tegra 2?

I want tegra3 mainly because of the gpu that thing is sporting and when i do get an upgrade and i do grab a tegra3 (or it successor my upgrade is feb of 13) i will port over that script that was made for tegra2 modify it to get all 4 cores running all the time and run benchmarks myself and if my out dated tegra2 is only now slightly behind with both cores up im sure tegra3 will be doing much better.

Now there is a supposed battery drain with keeping my second core online all the time but if there was an impact its very little like maybe i only lose a half hour of battery life. I still get 16+ hrs on it.

My apps run better, my phone in general runs better and im using stock blur. And it runs nearly as nice as pure asop well at least the asop we have for this phone.

So i just want to ask how do we know for sure that it is getting bad scores cause of how tegra3 opperates and the benchmark app isn't reading it right?

Gl benchmark gave me two very different readings as well with 2nd core online all the time compared to its default ondemand setting. Im thinking its not getting accurate scores because companies want to market there stuff better. Stock for stock yeah but turning all four on knowing for sure that they are on when the benchmark gets read may result in a much different picture like the droidx2.
[General Questions and Answers] sreza:
Gingerbread is not optimized for multiple cores. Honeycomb is the first iteration of Android that can handle multiple cores. Even if those benchmark tests are capable of testing all cores, your OS wasn't capable of detecting/using the other core properly.

It's clear from the Antatu benchmark that all 4 cores on Tegra 3 are functional and in use (at least, for the purposes of the benchmark test).

You've actually taken things in completely the wrong direction. All the benchmark tests that account for multiple cores say that the Tegra 3 is the strongest chip in the mobile world.

However, strength isn't everything. See post #233 where I explain exactly why even though Tegra 3 is a stronger chip in terms of sheer processing power, Krait S4 is still a better chip in terms of consumer experience.
[General Questions and Answers] Stevethegreat:
I struggle to see the benefit of dual core to begin with. My modded SGS is as fast -day-to-day- as a decently modded SGS II.

The only thing I envy from SGS II is the extra RAM, NOT the dual core. Either Android is a bad OS to make use of extra cores or we simply don't need multi-threading for the micro-applications we are running in our phones (as opposed to the full fledged application running on a PC).

In fact in everything apart from synthetics my SGS absolutely destroys a stock SGSII, it's a better phone -period- and I wouldn't change it. So if you want a better *phone* disregard the core number and look about everything else (build, battery, RAM, screen), if you want good benchmarks buy a quad core.
[General Questions and Answers] er_fabio:
optimized single core..............dual or quad core no use if it took advantage
[General Questions and Answers] Nit3m4re:
The Padfone does look interesting, I remember reading about it a while ago. But its not looking promising that it'll arrive in the UK any time soon and chances are I won't be able to get it on a good contract anyway over here.

I really want the Note tbh but it just seems like it'll be outdated very quickly with Exynos 5250 coming out at some point and S4 already being out. Just a waiting game now, if they would only just announce what's in the pipeline for us I can at least justify why I am still hanging on to my SGS haha.
[General Questions and Answers] Tuffshift:
Are there any applications that even properly utilize Quad Cores?
[General Questions and Answers] oinflam3so:
Besides battery life i think ill stick to dual core.
[General Questions and Answers] alevbozzi:
Quad core drain battery I suppose
[General Questions and Answers] 11214:
Will it though?
[General Questions and Answers] R3dn0ze:
I'm pretty sure 4 cores will use much more energy than 2 cores mate
[General Questions and Answers] sreza:
Actually no. Based on just the science of multiple cores alone, more cores equal less battery drain. However, the fact that Krait is built at 28 nm means that it's far more efficient that the Tegra 3. Quad-cores are also only more efficient if the environment is multi-threaded, and 99% of android is not.
[General Questions and Answers] DPMAce:
so how long will krait be considered a good buy?

my note supposedly had the fastest dual core processor for a month and already it's old news.

i'm sure tegra 4 is around the corner
[General Questions and Answers] sreza:
Tegra 4 is set for Q1 2013 (this time next year). The flagship will be an A15 4+1 processor clocked at 1.8 GHz and the other 3 models won't be out until Q3 2013.

The reason why the note fell out so quickly is because they went with the older Snapdragon S3 for its LTE radio.

I would say Krait will stay a good buy until TI releases OMAP 5, or Exynos releases their thing, or Tegra 4 next year, but only if those chips have the perks we see in Krait! If they don't have asynchronous clocks then it'll kind of be a waste unless the Market magically becomes multi-threaded overnight.

Assuming that the Krait S4 Pro has the same specs as the S4 in all ways save the number of cores in the device, then by the science alone we really shouldn't see any benefit to buy the quad-core version. It'll be nice to have that option if some developer releases quad-core super-intensive HD games, but unless I can hack and install Windows 8 on the device to run it on so I can use Window's windows to realistically multi-task, I don't see the point in upgrading to a quad-core device.

I would definitely upgrade if any A15 chipset comes out with a higher clock speed than Krait's 1.5 GHz though. Dual-core or quad-core, that's a tangible difference in your user experience.
[General Questions and Answers] resurrecion fight:
Nice

Inviato dal mio Galaxy Nexus usando Tapatalk 2
[General Questions and Answers] I Am Marino:
S4 will stay relevant for a while but I don't see it being really surpassed until end of the year.
[General Questions and Answers] Nit3m4re:
It kind of just seems to me now that the only reason this discussion is actually worth having is if the results are savings in battery.

In any other area it feels like it doesn't make a blind bit of difference if you have dual or quad core literally because of this scenario where the S4 is quite clearly better than Tegra 3. No dual core is going to struggle running ICS, heck even my Hummingbird isn't struggling lol, so I doubt any 2 Core A9 or A15 is going to have difficulties a year or 2 down the line should there be another update to android in that time.

The ONLY reason anyone could possibly need quad is as stated by sreza where you might want to go on and install Windows or some other OS and really use it as more of a PC.. but for me personally and probably a lot of people, the device is literally still a phone.

Its a shame but as everyone keeps on pointing out, if the developers for apps aren't going to go through the effort of optimising for quad core then it literally is pointless having them there, unless you're saving battery.. then I suppose its worth it. But even that is down to how well the CPU is made, as we know from nVidia's mistakes lol.
[General Questions and Answers] neopi21:
my htc sensation has a good power consumption
[General Questions and Answers] :
You will want processors like this assuming all new processors are out. Full development capabilities. T.I omap 5 why because they have accessible hardware data sheets. Since T.i Omap is fully open sourced you can get the most out of your device(hardware hacking and software to its fullest extents). Exynos hardware data sheets are available to some people not as good as ti omap but its good. Qualcomm would be next as their hardware data sheets are locked down. But they are really good with their software they seem to be getting better by releasing more of once unavailable software.

Why you should reject nvidia also intel when they come. Nvidia keeps their gpu configuration locked down. Pretty much the whole soc is locked down including software unless your developing a tegra games. Custom kernel won't be as good as say qualcomm or exynos or ti omap. Nvidia is seriously limiting their performance by locking their soc down.

Intel is pushing x86 architecture on arm market. This is really ignorant. No developer will want to build one app for intel and one for the rest of the android market. Its already bad enough some apps arent compatible with some phones. But now you will get that for apps you already bought and might never get support for x86 architecture.
[General Questions and Answers] sreza:
It's true, but I still wish Intel the best. I hate how locked-out the ARM version of Win8 is. My dream is to one day have an Asus successor to the Padfone running Win8 on a fully customizable OS that can run .exe files with at least 12 hours of heavy use.

Home, work, even the couch, it would be wonderful to have modular attachments to increase the screen/productivity of my phone to become a direct replacement for any other pc I might need. To just sit down, jack in, get things done, and unplug myself and walk out with my pc in my pocket. And I can see that we're -this- close to that day. We have the technology, just need to put it together is all.
[General Questions and Answers] jonneymendoza:
Here is another thing. by that guys definition of saying duals are better the quads for battery and general performance, Then that means a very fast single core 2ghz would beat a s4 in terms of performance and battery life right as it is only using one core and how not many apps cater for multiple cores to begin with
[General Questions and Answers] sreza:
No! If we're comparing apples to apples, the quad-core version of a processor is better than the dual-core version. But the current buying environment isn't a choice between Krait S4 and Krait S4 Pro (the quad-core version). It's a choice between Krait S4 (which happens to be a dual-core) and Tegra 3 (which happens to be a quad-core).

In a scenario without extenuating circumstances, a quad-core processor has both better battery life and performance than a dual-core processor. However, there are many such issues that push the Krait S4 ahead of the Tegra 3.

1) Krait has better build size

2) Tegra does not have asynchronous clocks

3) The Android environment cannot take advantage of multi-core processing

4) Krait is designed to compete with A15, Tegra 3 is A9

If those circumstances did not exist, then Tegra 3 would be far superior to Krait S4. The one thing I've tried to get across through all my posts is that the title of this thread shouldn't be "dual core or quad core" because that question is easily answered through computer science. The reason why this controversy can exist in the first place is because not all cores are created equal.

In the case of the single core extremely powerful chip, I would have to say no because ICS can detect multiple cores. So even though the apps themselves cannot take advantage of other cores, ICS can stick itself to one core and run apps on the other, which lowers battery consumption by a great deal versus forcing a single powerful core to run at high speeds to do all the work by itself.
[General Questions and Answers] Ariozo:
Alot off talk about dual or quad this days, But without scores i have to say my One S with the Dual S4 feels faster then my One X in everyday use. More "snappy"..

Ofc. like some tests show Tegra3 should be fast in some games, but i talk in general things i do every day i realy like the S4..:)
[General Questions and Answers] jonneymendoza:
Let me rephrase. I would a single core krait beat a dual core krait? Going buy what people said the answer is yes it will as more cores = more battery drain and no apps using mode then one core
[General Questions and Answers] sreza:
No, more cores does not mean more battery drain. The main purpose of having multiple cores is to -save- battery power, not make the system stronger. A single core S4 would drain more battery than a dual core, and here's why:

Let's say you are using the full power of the single core device, the clock speed is at maximum and the voltage is at maximum. Compare that to splitting your workload whereas ICS is on one core while your app is on the other. Assuming the app takes the same amount of power as ICS does, your cores are now doing the same task, but at only 50% of the full processor speed. This is very important because it means you are producing far less heat and using far less battery power than you would with the single core device.

Back to my car analogy again (I must really love cars huh?) Anyone who took physics in school should remember the law of kinetic energy. It takes 4 times as much power to go twice as fast in a car. While not at the same ratios, this same idea holds true for CPU cores. 1 core working at 100% is less efficient than 2 cores working at 50%, as long as all other things about the environment are the same, and the apps are multithreaded.

While android apps for the most part are not multithreaded, that just means you can't split up a single app between cores. You can still assign different apps to different cores. So while the 1 core system would inefficiently run both the system and all your apps on a single core, a dual core system can run android itself and minor background tasks on 1 core while running your main big intensive app on the other.

In an environment where all other things remain the same: quad core A15 > dual core A15 > single core A15.

EDIT: See this diagram showing how multiple core efficiency works:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=...3ec34885d0ab5dc58cb3&a=bi&pagenumber=14&w=800
[General Questions and Answers] jonneymendoza:
So then a quad core SHOULD by your definition above, save more battery life then a dual core but you previously said it doesnt? i am getting confused mate.

simple question i will ask you, does more cores = better battery life?
[General Questions and Answers] sreza:
It all depends on how well you can split your tasks up between cores.

The average phone has 3 main tasks running at once:

1) The OS

2) Background Stuff (like syncing email)

3) The main onscreen app (Browser, Youtube, Video Player, Music, Etc...)

A single core system will run at 100% to do all the tasks on its single core. Very inefficient.

(Krait S4) A dual core system without multithreading but with asynchronous clocks will split it up so the OS and the Background happens on core 1 while the main app happens on core 2. So core 1 runs at 40% and core 2 runs at 60%.

(Krait S4 Pro) A quad core system without multithreading but with asynchronous clocks will split it up like the dual core system. Core 1 at 30% running the OS. Core 2 at 10% running background tasks. Core 3 at 60% running the main app. Core 4 is off.

(Tegra 2) A dual core system without multithreading nor asynchronous clocks will split it up so the OS and the Background happens on core 1 while the main app happens on core 2. Since the cores have the same clock, both cores run at 60% even though core 1 only needs 40%.

(Tegra 3) A quad core system without multithreading nor asynchronous clocks will split it up between cores still. But without asynchronous clocks a lot of power is wasted. Core 1 is at 60% running the OS (even though it only needs 30%). Core 2 is at 60% running background tasks (even though it only needs 10%). Core 3 is at 60% running the main app (using exactly the power it needs, and needlessly dragging the other cores into a higher power state for no reason). Core 4 is off, but if you start playing music too it'll have to run at 60% because of Core 3.

So my answer is, as long as you're comparing apples to apples (Krait cores to Krait cores), then more cores equals less wasted battery power.

However, the only quad-core on the market right now is Tegra 3, which as you can see above means you'd be comparing apples to lemons.

Honestly, the way I look at it is that you need more than 1 core, but any more than 2 starts being wasteful in the current environment.
[General Questions and Answers] BunmiHiT3k:
Quad COREEEEE

Quad Core all day.. its faster.. but ur battery will run out quickly
[General Questions and Answers] inu629:
Dual core is more than enough but if quad core available then I take Quad core without any doubt
[General Questions and Answers] briarwood:
I've been following your posts, great stuff and incredibly informative. Thanks.

I have a few questions. If I understand your points correctly Tegra 3 has the most raw power available right now but that power can't be taken advantage of because there are no apps optimized for more than 2 cores and because Android itself doesn't utilize all 4 or 5 cores since it's 4+1.

You stated that because of Kraits ability to clock both cores at different speeds it's more efficient and saves battery life. Also it's manufactured at 28 nm and it's built to compete with A15 as opposed to A9.

If NVidia had designs on building the king of the hill chip why did they design the cores to all run at the same speed? Also, why didn't they manufacture the chip using 28 nm technology and why build to compete against A9 instead of A15?

Did they think brute power would win the day?

Also, why develop a 4+1 chip if it can't be properly utilized to take advantage of all the cores?

Seems to me that NVidia didn't think things through and decided being the biggest and baddest would be the best solution.
[General Questions and Answers] tjtj4444:
This is an description using an artificial/abstract work load coming from Nvidia marketing material. In almost all cases when using your phone this work load (and corresponding power save) will not happen.

In most cases the work load is either very low (for example just waiting for you to press a link in the browser), or the CPU is very busy, usually with CPU-load varying rapidly between 0-100% on the cores, for example parsing/rendering a web page
[General Questions and Answers] Maggost:
Quad cores on cellphones? i dont think it's worth it...the 2 cores gen will remain for a long time imo.

I have a 6 core CPU in my gaming rig and sometimes i dont use 4 cores at all even at high load times!
[General Questions and Answers] pigr8:
dualcore is more than enough if OS is optimized, even if 4 core are more energy efficient than 2.