yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Android General] T__:
I am going to pass this on to all my friends who are still in the iOS is better frame of mind.

I have used Android for <1 year now, and everything is simple.

Have tried using iOS from time to time when messing about with friends phones, and things Android performed in a click of a button, required multiple clicks with the iOS.

I have to admit, I am not a big fan of Apple; I like how they look - but I hate how they function. They are far from simple.

Really hope you <strikeout>plan</strikeout> have time to expand and finish of the series.
[Android General] Wicked4u2c:
Thanks I have been getting a few PM's and E-mails to finish the series and I am getting more pumped about it! Specially seeing how I left out so many important features that people use every day...

For example, sharing a simple website with your friends and family on Facebook (or any other Social Network that is not Twitter) is something that can't be done on iOS. If your browsing on Safari and come upon a great article that you want to share, you can only share on Twitter, E-mail and, Messaging. You would have to copy the URL, load up Faceboook then paste it and click on publish.

With Android, the sharing capabilities depend on what apps you have installed. I can share to my Dropbox, G+, Facebook, Docs, etc.. with just one click of a button.
[Android General] JoeCool85:
aere aratedne

thanks for the vid
[Android General] TheSG:
I watched.
[Android General] thebobp:
I say definitely continue the project. I'm kind of sick of the kool-aid going around. Sharing!
[Android General] bigbooty:
Go man...finish the series. Excellent work.
[Android General] iBluemind:
It is interesting.. :)
[Android General] blicg:
Nice comparison, good work.
[Android General] Coolmfarshard:
Finish your series great work
[Android General] MrKnitty:
great work bro.
[Android General] Wicked4u2c:
Wow, I am happy that people actually enjoyed the video. This really makes me want to finish the series. I'll see if I can edit more next week and maybe in 2-3 weeks I will post part 2, stay tuned...
[Android General] z33dev33l:
I appreciate the video, but a lot of it is what YOU enjoy and what YOU think is best. Sure, android suits you better, but what about the things that effect everyone? IPhone caters to the general public as a whole, you can make android cater to your individual preferences, it takes tons of apps, oftentimes a root, and constant maintenance. For those who want a phone without the hassle, Iphone does great. You're obviously technically inclined and don't mind dedicating some time to phone maintenance. You seem to even enjoy it. Android is great for you, but all OS's have their target audience.
[Android General] princebama:
Thumbs up. Ha have already shared this multiple times today to iPhone Stans who had no clue about these simple Android features. Even made my wife regret getting the 4s a couple months ago lol
[Android General] thebobp:
You mean 99% of the examples in the video don't "affect everyone"?

Troll alert.

sent from my Terran Command Center.
[Android General] z33dev33l:
Preferring Dolphin browser to Safari, do most really care? There's numerous other examples in the video. IPhone caters to the user, android gives you the option to cater to yourself which would be awesome but it requires a lot of searching and messing around. I'm not saying it's bad by any means. I've even got an xperia play on order, they just each have their target audience.
[Android General] TheSkinnyDrummer:
OK....call me a troll, but regarding the OP's video link.....holy ****....I have a question. Why do people nowadays talk in a way where everything they say sounds like a question? Ironic, I know, I just asked a question. Maybe I'm being nit-picky....but really...do people? Really? Talk? Like this?

I hope someone out there knows what I'm getting at, because I am constantly losing faith in humanity, or atleast my fellow Americans when people talk in questions.

I should just start a topic in the Rant section? Like, right?

Sent from my coffee pot.
[Android General] Aashrey99:
Permission to feature this on my blog?

Link's in the sig
[Android General] vetvito:
Part 3 was great.
[Android General] hackeron:
Really great vids thx.
[Android General] bigbooty:
Outstanding videos. Really like them.
[Android General] mcord11758:
for me, what the video does or displays is why some people are so confused when they hear apple fans bashing android. I am sure videos can be made in the reverse, although I have both and honestly can not find a single thing I like in IOS more than android. I have always complained that ios is so limiting and these videos show several examples of this. As someone just posted before ios works fine and is better suited for many. This certainly holds true for people who just want something that is simple and do not want to have to learn how to use their device.
[Android General] castaway1:
i just want to thank you for this videos! im really enjoying wathing them!

thanks - waiting for part4 patient. Part3 was amazing
[Android General] thebobp:
So basically, if you're shallow, you won't bother to look for deeper comparisons? It's hard to argue against that. These videos, however, aim to present some of those deeper comparisons to users who are hopefully not hopelessly shallow.
[Android General] Shano56:
love these vids! keep em coming
[Android General] AlwaysDroid:
Basically the way android was built, was that the User interactions and stuff that you see are only set to normal priority in the OS, and iphone uses a separate thread to process the UI interactions. Hence, no lag on iphones. Android does not and its to late to change because it means that applications would have to be rebuilt, which is a big job on a platform with tons of devices.

For example go and load XDA on your iphone. When its partway loaded, put your finger on the screen. Notice EVERYTHING stops. This is becuase the user interactions have Very high priority. This makes iphone look pretty.

Repeat this on an android and see how it attempts to do both (apply visuals and load). This is why iphones LOOK smoother.

But are they really on the inside?

I found that here:

https://plus.google.com/100838276097451809262/posts/VDkV9XaJRGS
[Android General] OOHnirav:
This is the exact condescending nature of posts from some android users that I was ranting about in the first half of my post, in case anyone wanted evidence of it. It's not that all of you are like this, but a good number of vocal members of the community are, and I find it unfortunate.

It's not that I won't bother to look for deeper comparisons, but the first thing I notice is the surface, and the surface is most what I directly interact with during day-to-day usage. I'd be willing to wager that a sizable number of iOS users don't know or care to learn about anything deeper than what they can see and use.

Thank you, this is what I was hoping for. I can't test the UI interaction while loading a page that you suggested, since I don't have access to an iPhone, but I'll take your word for it. Rationally speaking, I can understand how Android is better than iOS due to hardware capabilities and containing a multitude of feature that aren't available on iOS, and that's probably the main reason I'm switching to the EVO LTE. Thanks for the concise explanation, I think I have a better understanding of why things appear the way they do, now.

However, as far as the point of this thread goes, I still hold the opinion that the little simple things like 'looking pretty' can hold a higher priority to a sizable number of casual users than true multitasking, changing the default browser, and a good number of customization features that are present on the Android. Not that I necessarily agree with them, but I can't imagine my parents or other older relatives placing much importance in anything phone-related other than usability and appearance. I know it's anecdotal, so I don't mean to use that as an actual argument against any of you, but I feel that it accurately shows why I (and maybe others) get this impression.
[Android General] thebobp:
If by "condescending" you mean "summarizing", then no wonder you see so much "condescension". Here, for example,

you were essentially referring to people for whom surface observations matter, and for whom nothing else could possibly "make up" for. This is the very definition of a "shallow" consumer.

The only "condescension" I committed was to point out that you will never convince such a hopelessly shallow user using deeper comparisons. I don't even see any controversy here; it is practically a tautology. Thus, if this unfortunate fact hits home so hard for you, may I suggest it is due more to your own insecurity, than to any real "condescension" on anyone else's part.
[Android General] slapshot136:
Thank you for the videos
[Android General] Wicked4u2c:
So your buying decisions of a product are based on others people advice whether they are "preachy" or "condescending?" I feel sorry for you if that is the case, I buy a product because I like it. Not because someone sold me on it or i want to fit in. I think I'm one of the rare ones that actually appreciate both sides of the coin. I give credit where credit is due and i use what works for me Apple, Google, Samsung, whatever. You have great people and douche bags on both sides of the fence. I'm not influenced by either side, they both have their strengths and weaknesses pick your battle.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
[Android General] mistermentality:
I don't see why one posters view is getting picked apart just because they rightly note that ios is smoother than android and that such a difference influences people. Of course it makes a difference.

Dave
[Android General] BleedsOrangeandBlue:
I disagree with you. The touch interface and display are the two things you interact with every single time one picks up their phone. Regardless of what they're doing, the display and touch interface are the portal with which the user interacts. That makes them far greater than the "surface observation" you make them out to be. The bells and whistles Android provides aren't necessarily going to be useful to everyone, so its pointless for them to be considered.

Just because you drive a race car that has no passenger seats or air conditioning doesn't make it a "better" car than a luxury SUV. Its better at what it does, but the SUV has strong points to it also. If my wife walked up to a race car, her response would be, "a car with only a passenger seat and no A/C? I have no use for that".

Some people prefer horsepower, others air conditioning. There is no universal right answer. Preferring air conditioning does not make someone shallow, it just indicates a different set of priorities.

It comes down to how you (the user, not you specifically) define the worth of a car. Is it by comfort or by performance?

If two people were having this argument about their cars, would anyone tolerate listening to it?

"Your car is worthless, mine has 700 more HP than yours!"

"No, your car is worthless, it doesn't have a stereo or air conditioning! I've got third row seating FFS"

Are either of these people shallow? No (though an argument could be made that they are both shallow, which could very well also be the case in these Android/Apple arguments if you wanted to get broad scope in the argument), they just have different definitions of what constitutes the worth of the vehicle.
[Android General] ljordan2:
Well said. I completely agree with you. Everyone has their own taste and we can't say much about it.
[Android General] thebobp:
Actually, it is a "surface observation". This is because this observation has to do with something happening on the surface [user interface]. You can't deny something is true just because you don't like the term.

Re: preferences. You are absolutely right. If someone has preferences that vastly value surface operations (over, say, convenience of performing tasks), then they should go on ahead and buy the OS with better such operations. No one is stopping them; indeed, the OP has repeatedly stated that Android is not for everyone.

This is incorrect. "Shallow" means one only/mostly cares about surface appearances. If you only care about such things, then you are shallow by definition. The only way I can see you arguing otherwise is to change the definition.

That said, and I think this is part of the confusion, "shallow" is not being used pejoratively. Who am I to judge your preferences? You should buy whatever the hell you want. The only issue here (and the OP's intent) is to provide information so that even those deeper preferences may be taken into account.

I personally don't think people are as shallow as OOHnirav made them out, though for all I know, that may be over-optimism on my part.
[Android General] OOHnirav:
Well, in short, you are absolutely correct. It's unfortunate that my buying habits and willingness to try new things are affected, in part, by the presentation of those who suggest the new things to me. It's a major reason that I have missed out on Android OS. I've only recently looked past it, and I was hoping that part of my post would show why there may be a fair number of other people who might feel similarly to how I did in terms of unwillingness to test the waters with Android.

While I'll stand by the fact that I believe there are those to whom Android wouldn't appeal, I also believe there are people who would enjoy it and haven't given it a chance due to the presentation of some of the noisier user-base. If expanding the community is a goal, as it appears to be in these videos and this thread, I think that's something we should take into account.

"Shallow" probably shouldn't be offensive or condescending as a word in-and-of itself, but the cultural context of it makes it that way. The fact that you are "optimistic" that people aren't "shallow" shows that, to a degree, you agree that being that way is objectionable to a degree despite the fact that you are pushing it as a purely descriptive word.

I didn't mean any of my posts to come off as a personal attack to you. I can see how you'd take it that way, but I'd appreciate if you would do me the same respect by not trying to make this discussion personal. I purely wanted to point out how things may seem to some people on the other side of this discussion, since it didn't seem like any iOS supporters were voicing their opinions here.
[Android General] thebobp:
You're probably right; my personal preferences were showing there.

Initially, at least, I was using the word just to aid in analysis of the particular type of user you described. I admit things got a bit heated afterward.
[Android General] BleedsOrangeandBlue:
I'll give you this, but to say that the screen/touch interface concerns only the "surface" of the phone is inaccurate. The two are all encompassing. Whether you're playing words with friends or hacking the white house website from your phone, the way in which you interact with the phone is fundamental.

You cannot separate the touching of the phone from everything else you do on it. What if your phone had hard buttons that only worked half of the time? You'd be pretty pissed that the interface was so shoddy. It wouldn't be a superficial complaint, it would be a fundamental problem with the operation of the phone.

Now, while the difference between iOS and Android isn't as bad as the example, it again comes down to preference (I know we're going to start converging towards agreement at this point, but I have to tie the argument together). You value the interface slightly less over features whereas the typical iOS user values the superior (no matter how slight) interface.

But again, the point here is that I don't think you can chalk up the touch component of these devices as superficial. Nothing is more fundamental, which could largely be defined as "the opposite of shallow".

Interacting with the screen is the one thing you do every single time you pick up your phone. That doesn't make it a "surface" variable, but rather a pillar on which the overall experience stands.

edit to add: I see apologies going around in the above posts... if I offended anyone with my part in the debate, I apologize (though I've tried to be objective...I don't really care what Apple users think and am just taking part in the discussion)
[Android General] thebobp:
You're right, we are converging toward agreement. The superficial (I prefer "surface") elements are not something to ignore. A completely broken surface layer, as you say, means a completely unusable phone. Conversely, broken elements beyond the UI also make the phone unusable, so no user can be perfectly shallow; there must be some kind of continuum, as you say, based on how much they care about basic UI appearances verses "deeper" design.

You're right in that if the surface user interface falls, everything else falls. But I don't see how that makes it non-surface.
[Android General] BleedsOrangeandBlue:
Yea, I guess I've based my whole point on assuming I knew what you meant by "surface".

That would be a point worth attempting to define. It seems the crux of this discussion revolves around the idea that you take the notion of a working touchscreen for granted (which isn't a terrible framework considering we're talking about touchscreen phones) while I don't.

And since we're trying to make an objective observation about it, I don't know that we can take it for granted. We could probably say that the purpose of a touchscreen is to mimic the touches of the appendage (whichever you prefer lol) contacting it. We can't say for sure that iOS does this 100%, but I think we're both in agreement that Android doesn't, if only through our personal experiences that Apple's does "feel" better.

So we know that Android has failed *in this regard* and *only to a degree*. Which means, to me, that it is not fulfilling this purpose and is "broken" to some extent (broken being equivalent to not working as intended...if it was completely nonfunctional, then it wouldn't, in essence/for purposes of this discussion, be a touchscreen anymore...though that is a philosophical problem not worth going into here.).

So if we work on the assumption that the interface is "broken", and we're trying to look at it objectively, we have to consider all degrees of broken-ness. If we try to pigeon-hole it and say "well, its not that bad", we're interjecting our tolerances for inadequate touchscreen behavior.

Once we interject our own tolerances, we're being subjective. Once we start going down the path of "gross" failure (eg: working only half of the time), we begin to see how fundamental the touch interface is to these devices.

That is the whole basis by which I was making my argument. If you're talking about "surface" in the sense of importance, that communicates to me that you're trying to maintain that the touchscreen and its operation aren't fundamental components of phone usage*and, hence, superficial.

That doesn't seem to be what you're saying and it seems like I've misinterpreted you. That said, I think you're going to have to explain what constitutes a surface component of a device and what constitutes a deep one if we're going to go any further.

That may or may not be worth it at this point... I do appreciate the distraction from my school work, none-the-less :)
[Android General] slapshot136:
while I was watching your 2nd video at about 9:25, where you showed how remotely installing apps is neat, I think you should add a use for it: you can install a phone locator app such as planB from your computer, and have your phone install it and send you it's location - that adds a more practical use to it then just saying that it's something cool to have
[Android General] Tuffshift:
Thanks for this! Helped pass the time at work :)
[Android General] thebobp:
I can't corroborate this; I only know that a lot of people apparently think so.

Nah, my "surface" isn't in terms of importance. I guess my idea of it was in terms of basic verses non-basic interactions. See, when you first try out a phone, first thing you do is try scrolling. If you make your snap judgment then, and don't ask how easy it is to perform more complicated tasks (for example), then you've effectively only "scratched the surface", without looking for any of the deeper comparisons.

I hope this makes more sense.
[Android General] gartzen:
Great videos!

But I think the real difference between ios (and other many apple devices and apps) and android is that apple is for dumb people (in the good sense of the word :p). It's limitations and it's "dumb" friendlyer interface is more, while in android you need more effort to learn things, and it's interface although it's easy to use, it feels more complicated. I'm sure the white color in iOs and the black of android has much to do with that percepction we get.

A example: you talk in the videos about file managers, but many people don't know what a file manager is. In my job I've seen many people using a computer, download the same picture from gmail each time the want to see it, so their download folder is full of copies of it. It's unthinkable for someone used to work with computers, but it was the most normal thing for them. So iOs is perfect fit for that kind of people. You know what you can do, and what you can't. You can do the same thing with android, yes, but iOs is nicer. You can do androd look nicer than default, but that's too complicated.

But anyway, I like that there's this competition between them. It's good to pull my iPhone fanboy friends' leg!
[Android General] AlwaysDroid:
Oh yeah forsure, it totally makes sense that people that people would be seriously influenced by look. Just see how half of people choose girlfriends :p.
[Android General] jp694:
thanks for making these videos they are great to show people who just dont comprehend what android has to offer.
[Android General] porkchopexpress:
I always wonder why people need to have a big discussion about which is the better OS, because I for one couldn't possibly care less. Some people like iOS and some people like Android, at the end of the day they both let you make phone calls, check emails, etc. They both have their place in the market and appeal to all types of people.
[Android General] Wicked4u2c:
**bump for part 4**
[Android General] AlwaysDroid:
part 4 was sweet man keep em coming! i sub'd !!
[Android General] djluis48:
Part 4 was pretty nice man! Keep the videos coming! I will watch and share them all! :D
[Android General] ak700:
Great vids!! Subscribed on Youtube!!
[Android General] Stevemotto:
Awesome points you have emphasized, subscribed for future videos :)
[Android General] Mirceabadea:
Very nice, love the new part. Keep em coming!
[Android General] digidelia:
GREAT video series.
[Android General] 85gallon:
Subbed as well. Did it after part 1.

Btw, what is the name of the Android phone tracker app at the beginning of part 4? I couldn't find it in the play store. Well I couldn't spell it to find it lol. Tried lost phone but no luck.
[Android General] Lesicnik1:
It's Cerberus.
[Android General] 85gallon:
Thanks
[Android General] virus786:
There's a button for it you know... No need to say it and waste a "new post" notification.
[Android General] 85gallon:
Doh! Forgot about the button. As for a new post notification, here is another wasted one. Thanks. :D
[Android General] Ormuz:
More!

Keep up the good work. Looking forward to more episodes.
[Android General] meishkov:
Very informative stuff. Expose the greatness that comes along with openness. Closed architecture will always be limited to just the very few who have the access to tinker with it.
[Android General] gerhardat:
Great comparison.
[Android General] MissionImprobable:
The Bonus FAQ was great as well. The funny thing is when I watch these videos I always find little things I hadn't thought of using much. I use dropbox, but hadn't even looked for a straight Wifi File Transfer app.

These vids also have me looking forward to perhaps getting the next Nexus device or at least something easily customizable with ICS so that I can get buttery performance without the need for V6 Supercharger and the like.