yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HTC Rezound] scotty1223:
i could care less about being able to use older radios. to me the value in this is simply the fact that we need a way to downgrade in case an exploit is found in some firmware. its not like you can just flash a new radio,youll need to use the matching hboot until we can figure out a way to s-off(i.e. to run the shipping fimrware radio,youll need to run the 2.10 hboot,you cant use it with 2.11 or 2.21)

this is not a way to mix-n-match the firmware that you want to use,and as weve found out,ICS is not technically compatible with the older firmware anyway.

to make it all worse,even if we could get the eng hboot onto the phone in a way that it would boot and work,i dont know that the ics software would even work with it :eek:

no,that is NOT correct.

if you successfully boot the 2.05 s-on hboot,it will not flash an unsigned file that youve deleted parts from that you dont want to use,just like any other s-on hboot. if it were that easy,we would have allready done it ;)

if you run the signed 3.11 RUU or PH98IMG to recover the phone after the successful 2.05 flash,that RUU will just update the hboot to 2.21.

you DO need whole RUUs,not just hboots.

in order to duplicate the evo 3d experiment on the rezound,you need to be on a current fimreware(2.01.605.11) with 2.11 hboot

-change main version to 1.00.605.3

-use 2.01.605.11 PH98IMG to brick the phone(nothing else will pass checks and allow update so you can brick)

-use emmc recovery to install

2.10

hboot

-when that works,flash the

1.00.605.3

RUU or PH98IMG,as it will now pass signiture,android info,mainversion,and hboot htc "safety checks"

*drink a beer,as we have proof of concept that we can downgrade if we need to :cool:

*if you simply flash 2.05 hboot and try and reboot without flashing old firmware to match it,youll end up with a security warning best case,or non-booting phone that youll need to recover(worse case) since the radio in 2.01.605.11 that is technically still on the phone is looking for hboot 2.11(or 3.22.605.11 looking for hboot 2.21.dep what fimrware you start with)

*if you try and modify the PH98IMG to not have hboot or basebands,it will silently fail(doesnt pass s-on signitire check)

*if you run the whole 3.11 RUU,it will work,but youre back to hboot 2.21

*if you try this without setting the mainversion to 1.00.605.3,youll have to run the 2.01.605.11 RUU to recover,wich should work,but again,take you back to hboot 2.11

read the source thread again,you should find it to support the above statements. :)
[HTC Rezound] Land Master:
I assume this means that even if this process is successful on the Rezound those of us that upgraded to the leaked FW are screwed?

Oh crap I dropped my phone behind the car and ran over it ... ;)
[HTC Rezound] mighty_markus12:
would be awesome to get an htc employee to just leak the proper hboot we need! ;)
[HTC Rezound] angryPirate12:
I've read it bunches, the thing that makes me believe that we only need to flash an hboot to trigger the brick status is during the downgrade process, you pull out the A/C plug when the bootloader is being flashed. Once it's interrupted nothing else in the RUU will flash initially. The only time a full RUU is needed is at the very end to fully recover the device.

Now when we use emmc_recovery to force flash a signed 2.10 bootloader to overwrite the corrupted one from the previous step, it means we fixed the broken bootloader. Flashing a full RUU like 1.00 would then overwrite the already flashed bootloader which is already 2.10, we essentially end up writing the same bootloader twice in two different ways.

Following the above logic by using hboots only with pre-rooted RUU.zips with hboot, boot, radio, and recovery removed, along with a low mainver should allow us to flash any firmware update with any hboot.

I fully understand what you're saying about the safety checks and what not, but you also have to remember that by flashing through fastboot, so long as something is signed it'll flash it. I've always fastboot flashed my boot.img from a lower mainver than what my ROM is. So unless I am missing something completely this my thinking/reasoning behind my initial process.
[HTC Rezound] I Am Marino:
Completely off topic, I just got mindf*cked by the post Scotty made.
[HTC Rezound] Land Master:
No kidding. Better yet just let us S-off in a similar procedure to the unlock. IMO doing this would only help their sales. Imagine a true developer friendly platform.

It is fairly well assumed that a majority of their "fixes" already come from the Dev's here at XDA so just open the damn thing up.
[HTC Rezound] I Am Marino:
It would be nice for a company to let their phones be actual S-OFF.

Normal customers would have no idea what it means and buy like normal, but it would attract the people like us to it.
[HTC Rezound] badogg:
HTC might not mind doing that, but big red (Verizon) is probably like "No effing way bro".
[HTC Rezound] Land Master:
The Nexus is on Verizon but probably a bad example since their return rate is upwards of 20% ;)

They are a business just like any other. You need service to run the phone. More phone sales = more business.

And, what is it that we can do with s-off that will "cost" them money? Pretty sure they already know about people "stealing" hot-spot and that was done with S-On.

Also, by going through HTCdev they can actually keep track of it if they want.

---------- Post added at 02:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:24 PM ----------

Another thought is I would love to see the day where these devices get sold without any software on them. Open up the market and allow these wonderful Dev's that do everything for next to nothing to actually be able to generate some decent coin.

Probably a pipe dream but it sure sounds good.
[HTC Rezound] mighty_markus12:
20% return rate? Im shocked most of the devs are still on it then.
[HTC Rezound] scotty1223:
well,you are correct in that sense... you are not falshing the whole RUU and do not technically need the rest of it.

however...

if you wrap up an hboot with what you think is an approriate android info.text document,you have broken the htc signiture,and it will not flash.

now if you have an s-off device,you could certainly do that and use just an hboot PH98IMG to make the brick,if you could pull the plug fast enuff ;)

but with s-on,you will need to use the whole signed PH98IMG file.

you are 100% correct.

but its the bootloader we want,so it doesnt matter. part of the trials and tribulations of dealing with s-on hboots ;) basically we need the bootloader we want to flash to be on the phone,so it passes that check and the ruu containing that bootloader will flash(again)

no,because the hboot is not s-off. it will only flash signed by htc files. unless you are going to unlock it(wich should be possible). then you techncially *could* flash only the system and boot images,but still no radios,hboots,or other firmware.

you can downgrade to any complete matching firmware by running any RUU after the successful hboot flash.

so if you really wanted to run the fimrware for 1.00.605.3 or 1.02.605.6 you could do it by flashing either of those RUUs. as you mentioned,setting the mainversion low will let you do that. or if you were stuck on the leak,it would let you get back to 2.01.605.11.

but again,any hboot you use is s-on and will act acordingly

with a locked s-on bootloader,you have very limited use of fastboot and fastboot oem commands,and you still cannot use them to flash radios or hboots,even if your unlocked.

this is one reason i suggested temporarily booting the eng hboot and then trying to use it to change the secure flag and maybe CID. then at least you could run an ruu and boot to a safe,completely stock rom/fimrware,but with s-off.

if you unlock it prior to booting,again,you technically can fastboot flash your boot or recovery,but system images are typically too big,and htcdev unlock wont allow flashing radios or hboots.

the bottom line is: wether you flash a new boot/system/recovery as an RUU or as a PH98IMG or even "fastboot flash" in attempt to "recover" the phone to something other than the RUU that matches the hboot,you cant change any firmware,and as such will likely get the security warning(best case) or a non-booting bricked phone(worse case) if you try and boot it with mis-matching firmware(since new firmware is technically still on the phone-wasnt destroyed by pulling the plug during hboot).

you WILL have to run a

signed RUU or PH98IMG

of some sort to get the phone working again.

im just trying to help,and avoid having an unnessesary brick,or the need to figure out how to use the emmc restore to get it at least back to where it is now. i know you said you dont care,and i definately praise you for being willing to try it for the benefits of the community,but why kill it unneccessarily? its a sound backup phone,a possible xmas or birthday present,or you could sell it.

if you feel strongly that it will go how you think,by all means try it. report back what happens. :)
[HTC Rezound] scotty1223:
^this. id pay for a factory s-off,and gladly let it void any and all parts of my warranty that it can affect. it would be fairly easy... htc would just need to make,bascially, a PH98DIAG file that is based on each individual phone,like the unlock token. they could still keep track,and it is 100% feasible that they could do it.

IMO:

-htcdev unlock=free for any htc customer

-htcdev s-off=paid option and/or greater warranty study when there is prollems.

i hate to admit this,but i 100% understand why they did the unlock like they did. for prolly 95% of the folks that root and rom various devices its much safer. you can easily brick your phone with a radio s-off or patched hboot. not so much when you cant access or change it ;)

but i still strongly feel that there should be an option for us advanced users to be able to have the phone that we want.

maybe we should start a new petition? :D
[HTC Rezound] angryPirate12:
You enlightened me to something I was overlooking, I was naturally assuming that by simply removing the uneccesary bits from an RUU that when it was flashed, the "androidinfo.txt" would just skip the missing components and flash what was present. I know the updater info we use on ROMs and flashable zips work that way through CWN/Amon_Ra, I've been doing that for a while now. I was being ignorant to the fact that custom recovery's don't use signature checks, unlike the hboot that will do checks and then refuse to flash if the file fails.

I get what you're saying with the eng hboot, it's hard to say if that would work. That would be completely dependent on us being able to boot into bootloader after we run emmc_recovery.

By all means keep educating me, its through these discussions and thought processes that we can bounce ideas and situations off each other that'll work or utterly fail. At the very least teach at least one person something new. I thank you and con for helping with getting the best approach to this figured out.
[HTC Rezound] MrWizzu:
I recently upgraded to the new ICS leak, with hboot 2.21. My phone wouldnt turn back on for 4 days, and verizon sent out a replacement.

Now I tried to turn on my phone today and it magically worked. Now I will have 2 phones, and verizon is expecting 1 to be returned completely bricked.

Perfect time to see if I can help try out this with no fear of bricking my phone.

Let me know if this is still doable on the newest hboot.
[HTC Rezound] con247:
Give it a shot. Try downgrading to the 2.10 attached.

MD5 Extracted: 7BFE733D18ECCDFF4BE70839D028A600

MD5 Zipped: D393D70A40BE03C91F48948141713C43

So: Brick using the leak ICS PH98IMG.zip, try flashing the attached hboot with emmc_recover

edit: if you have gmail/gtalk, please PM me if you are gonna try this tonight. I would like to talk through it with you.
[HTC Rezound] scotty1223:
sure, it should work for any. just make sure you have a pretty thurough understanding of the process from reading the source thread. im sure con will be happy to gtalk you thru it,hes offered that prior...

youll need to use the 3.11.605.22 ruu to make the brick

you can try downgrading 1 step back to hboot 2.11/2.01.605.11 or all the way to 2.10/1.00.605.3

do you have a linux computer?

what questions do you have about the process? :)
[HTC Rezound] con247:
If he wants to do this I will literally walk him step by step through it via gchat if he wants. This is EXACTLY the type of person we need to test stuff. Someone who has nothing to lose
[HTC Rezound] mighty_markus12:
glad we have someone who might test for us.
[HTC Rezound] AtLemacks:
I would suggest paying for insurance replacements for devs, but seeing as we only get 2 per year from Asurion, that stops that idea!
[HTC Rezound] con247:
If I didn't need my phone every single day I would do it if my insurance replacement was paid for. But I need it every day. Plus I have a "perfect" rezound so I don't want to brick this one.
[HTC Rezound] scotty1223:
im trading my gnex for the s-off rezound in the video linked a couple pages back. once it gets here ill have two :D

im confident enuff that the downgrade will work(or that it at least will not be permanently hard bricked) that if all this is still in question,ill find a used laptop to put ubuntu on and give it a shot myself. my s-on rezound is not perfect,and actually,prolly has a bad esn :eek: so it is prolly not a bad canidate for such shenanigans either ;)
[HTC Rezound] graymonkey44:
I posted the video, so I'm glad someone got some use out of it. Hopefully the s-off rezound will help us achieve s-off?

I also have a pretty ****ty laptop. The battery can't keep a charge for more than 5 mintues and I had to format the hard drive because some nasty virus got on it. The product key got burned off the bottom, too. So I couldn't put vista back on it, but that point seems moot since you'll put ubuntu on it. But if it helps us achieve s-off I may be willing to sell it to you for very cheap.
[HTC Rezound] scotty1223:
im not gonna lie,i selfishly just want an s-off rezound,lol. of course if theres any way i can use it to help figure something out for the comunity i will. hes also left some zip files on the sd card,one of wich may be the software it shiped with,so maybe some of that will have some use.

i appreciate it,but at this point i dont think it will help us with s-off,just prove the concept of being able to downgrade,wich unfortunatley doesnt appear to have alot of value at this time,but you never know how or when it may be important!

its cool,craiglist seems to be full of $50-$150 laptops so ill just grab one of them :cool:
[HTC Rezound] graymonkey44:
All right, I forgot to mention I would supply the charger as well. But just trying to help out. Hell I'll give it to you if you just pay for shipping. I'm in New York.
[HTC Rezound] Land Master:
Did anything ever happen with this last night? Con was going to talk him through it. I sorta figure if we had good new it would have been reported here. Just curious. Thanks
[HTC Rezound] con247:
We called it a night at 2:30 AM but it is all setup and ready to continue.
[HTC Rezound] angryPirate12:
I just got my Gnex today, I shall wait patiently to see how the how things go when you resume last nights work.
[HTC Rezound] MrWizzu:
going at it now, didnt know it was this hard to brick a phone!
[HTC Rezound] italiankd2562:
Ya this phone is pretty hard to brick lol..Im surprised I didnt yet lol
[HTC Rezound] badogg:
pls delete
[HTC Rezound] YamiYaiba:
I'm itching to hear how this goes.
[HTC Rezound] TB13:
I think we all are! :p
[HTC Rezound] werdna87:
Any progress?
[HTC Rezound] con247:
The thing won't brick lol
[HTC Rezound] werdna87:
Now THAT is a strane problem... Will it not brick by taking the battery out while flashing the RUU?
[HTC Rezound] SteveG12543:
Dafuq? Hmmm... There has to be some way lol... Any new ideas or anything? We need progress! :D
[HTC Rezound] phillybizzle:
quote of the year!!

I'm cheering for you brother man!!
[HTC Rezound] MrWizzu:
Problem is, its now a pain in the ass, because it has to verify the RUU which takes forever, and the bootloader step is after SYSTEM which is incredibly big, so between attempts its like 10 minutes.

Still trying though!
[HTC Rezound] SteveG12543:
True, it did take a while to do the RUU. We all appreciate the persistence! Thank you for your continued efforts.
[HTC Rezound] scotty1223:
are you pulling the cable during verification? Or during the flash(after choosing yes to update)?

If you are pulling during the flash,that's odd its after system. boot loader is usually the first thing updated during an actual flash...
[HTC Rezound] werdna87:
Yea it usually updates the bootloader, reboots, then updates everything else
[HTC Rezound] mighty_markus12:
i bet i could brick his phone.. :D
[HTC Rezound] badogg:
Lol, yeah I bet a lot of us could - when we didn't want or mean to. :D
[HTC Rezound] scotty1223:
sooo...

i just got my s-off rezound :D

it was allready on the new firmware,so i installed the eng hboot and it seems to be working with the new firmware and software :cool:

i was able to super CID the phone as well. makes me wonder if it would let me turn the secure flag on and off as well?

if we can temp boot the eng hboot,and turn the secure flag off,were good to fo for sure.

i think if you guys successfully downgrade, you should definately try to temp boot the eng hboot and turn off the secure flag. vzw is,after all,expecting a brick :D

for sh*ts and giggles:

c:\mini-adb_vigor>fastboot getvar all
INFOversion: 0.5
INFOversion-bootloader: 2.11.2005
INFOversion-baseband: 1.22.10.0310r/1.22.10.0308r
INFOversion-cpld: None
INFOversion-microp: None
INFOversion-main: 1.02.605.6
INFOserialno: HT19ES200309
INFOimei: 990000327090686
INFOproduct: vigor
INFOplatform: HBOOT-8260
INFOmodelid: PH9810000
INFOcidnum: 11111111
INFObattery-status: good
INFObattery-voltage: 4166mV
INFOpartition-layout: Generic
INFOsecurity: off
INFObuild-mode: ENG
INFOboot-mode: FASTBOOT
INFOcommitno-bootloader: 56a610b4
INFOhbootpreupdate: 11
INFOgencheckpt: 0
all: Done!
finished. total time: 0.516s

edit:

scratch that comment about eng hboot working with ICS. it boots up fine,doesnt reboot,but the sd card is missing,lol
[HTC Rezound] werdna87:
Does your rezound say RH or RL at the top? do you know what that means also? My S-off says RL and S-on says RH
[HTC Rezound] scotty1223:
the s-off on the 2.21 hboot says RH. didnt think to check it on the eng hboot. no idea what that means :eek:

what are you on and did you RUU or OTA to it?
[HTC Rezound] werdna87:
No, i have actually noticed this from the second i got my stock and booted it into H-boot. The S-off has always said RH and the S-on has always said RL. no idea what they mean. The S-off one also has gone to every radio and stayed like that. my S-on is still on H-boot 2.10 og stock firmware :cool:
[HTC Rezound] sabindaman:
Are there any situations where an s-off device won't read as s-off?

Also are s-off devices in with the regular pool of devices? In other words is there a chance of getting one as a warranty replacement?
[HTC Rezound] Dstu03:
You would never get one as a replacement because they wipe and replace everything on the phone that's an over simplification of what they actually do but I'm thinking that's the best way to explain it. As for getting a phone with s off is more about who you know only about 100 exist and we're given to developers around the community. As part of the tos agreement verizon could turn off service to a phone with s off. But that would be highly unlikely
[HTC Rezound] sabindaman:
Ah thanks

From what I had been reading about s-off remaining after anything being installed on the device I had just assumed that it was something that might not get turn back on after phone updates before getting sent out (if it were referbished)
[HTC Rezound] scotty1223:
this is true. in the event that an s-off device was sent back in,it is possible it could go back out as a replacement,as vzws quality control seems to leave some to be desired ;) there were reports awhile back of peple actually recieving rooted phones as replacements,running custom roms :eek:

so even if vzw updated software with an RUU,s-off would remain. in order to lose the s-off,a device would prolly have to make it all the way back to htc,where they may turn the secure flag on before returning the phone to service. vzw doesnt really have the tools or ability to do much more than run an RUU. anyhting above that,the phone prolly goes back to htc.

nonetheless,the number of s-off phones is small and id venture 100% of the folks that own these phones know what they have. so the chances of recieveing an s-off device are still slim to none.

i had heard the number of s-off rezounds was more like 10. i like 100 better,as the notion that i have one of only TEN s-off rezounds makes me want to put it on a pedestal and not do any crazy experiements to it :D
[HTC Rezound] werdna87:
I'm pretty sure there are way more then ten. I personally have used 3 or 4 different ones
[HTC Rezound] sknight13602:
I'd sign it we should start a petition. Their has to be a couple thousand user on XDA with rezounds that would not to mention all the other device owners that would help

sent from my rezound

Rom: BAMF ICS v1.1

kernel:sebastinFM
[HTC Rezound] SteveG12543:
I'd sign too. S-OFF would be awesome.
[HTC Rezound] mighty_markus12:
+1 for a petition, s-off NEEDS to happen!
[HTC Rezound] superchilpil:
It won't :P not trying to be a Ass but quite frankly that will cause more bricks, due to the fact that we could flash unsigned and possibly corrupt radios and brick HTC/VZW do not wanna deal with bricked phones because of s-off

From their standpoint this option was fool proof and minimizes problems caused by custom roms and still gives us what we want
[HTC Rezound] con247:
My only issue with it is the lack of access to /boot from recovery. Otherwise I don't care.
[HTC Rezound] I Am Marino:
At least in my mind, it keeps developers away.
[HTC Rezound] TB13:
So we have devs with S-OFF Rezounds right? Can't the HBOOT be pulled from the phone some how? If we can pull a signed S-OFF HBOOT from one of the phones couldn't we some how get it onto our non S-OFF phones? From what I have read on the thread we need a signed HBOOT that is S-OFF and we can continue right? I never really heard if anyone successfully bricked using the RUU, but if we figure that out and have a S-OFF HBOOT then we are golden.
[HTC Rezound] CharliesTheMan:
It's way more than just swapping out the hboot.
[HTC Rezound] con247:
s-off is stored in the radio's nvram which is not accessible to us. Previous S-OFF exploits have basically flashed patched hboots that ignore the flag in the nvram and report S-OFF even though the device is actually S-ON. This can't be done with the newer devices because the hboots are now signed so they can't be patched.
[HTC Rezound] nolimit78:
I also just want a different splash.
[HTC Rezound] scotty1223:
boot is accessible from recovery if you launch it from fastboot. we just need to get folks in the habit of fastboot booting their recoveries(like the evo 3d) and we need to get rom devs on board with including conventional kernel updater scripts.

if thats all you really want,its allready feasible,with exception that you need a PC to get to recovery every time you want to change a kernel. i personally dont even bother keeping a recovey permantly installed.

correct. thats why wed have to pay for it,and/or possibly deal with really extreme "no warranty" consequenses.

i think htcdev=free,advanced s-off= paid and tighter warranty is a good compromise between them not waiting to deal with bricks from uneducated users,and advnaced users wanting to s-off.

i personally would pay about anything for it. im one of the wierd ones who bought an xtc clip just to radio s-off my thunderbolt,even tho it allready had a patched hboot ;)

is anyone good at writing out something like a petition? or know someone who is? ive no idea how to start an online petition,but id be glad to help or take it on if someone would throw out some pointers :)