yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[T-Mobile LG G2x] nodyarg:
can you give me more details? i bricked my phone with this nullifier. i ran nullifier in recovery then rebooted without thinking. couldnt get back to recovery using the normal button sequence.

i then used the apx method to flash cwm alternate recovery, but after completion it still wouldnt boot into recovery using power+voldown buttons, just see the lg logo forever...

im about to try nvflash, i would like to know how to flash a rom with it. for those of us who are unfamiliar with nvflash can you or someone else explain how to "push a rom to partition 11"
[T-Mobile LG G2x] mansa_noob:
You can try this: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1590523. Make sure to install GB afterwards and format emmc from inside GB if installing ics. If installing GB should work without additional steps.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] rosevilletoyota:
I was in trouble the other night. I want to thank everyone who helped and tried to help me. I use a Mac and had to boot my my into windows 7 which I never really use. I used the tool Clean-up Batch. as stated and it worked 100%. Everyone should remember to never shutdown the phone after running Nulifier. THanks:D:D:D:D
[T-Mobile LG G2x] kairi_zeroblade:
ok to put things simple

- once bricked if you know how to use nvflash you can simply flash a boot.img back just to allow you to boot til recovery

- grab one of the stock kernels or any kernel specific to use only for G2X

- AFAIK i did flash it on partition 11 or 5.. :confused: you can try either way using this command under windows DOS prompt..it will consequently say fail but when you see all the bytes are written til the last drop it is actually successful..

nvflash --bct 1108_Hynix_512MB_H8TBR00U0MLR0DM_300MHz_final_emmc_x8.bct --bl fastboot.bin --download 11 boot.img

- then a follow up flash again this time you now install the CWM via the same proceudre(NVFLASH)

- then now after successfully doing so turn your phone off and attach battery and boot holding your volume down and power together and wait til you boot to recovery..

this just took me around 5 mins to finish though thinking of it took me hours..and now my wife is enjoying the G2x.. :D
[T-Mobile LG G2x] Волк:
Should be 5, looking at the command for flashing CWM by itself it would be 5, and 0p5 is also boot partition. You likely won't have to re-flash CWM though, as it's not a problem with CWM not being there.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] cyhamada:
I am running the new unofficial/official update of 2.3.4 with the new baseband and I want to run this nullifier...have run it many times in the past with great success.

here is my (stupid) question...does the nullifier wipe the baseband?

thanks in advance.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] da-pharoah:
nope
[T-Mobile LG G2x] rosevilletoyota:
Over using Nullifier

I flash a lot of ROMS at lease 3 a week. I always use Nullifier. On Genesis v1 - Beta4 - instructions it says Do Not Use Nullifier. my question is this.

Is it really safe to do this every time for people like me that flash often. Can Nullifier really ware something out and be used too much? Thanks:D:D:D
[T-Mobile LG G2x] mansa_noob:
I would do as the dev says. There must be a reason, although it would have been nice if the reason was disclosed.

Regarding wearing out flash: every write operation (and also read to a smaller extent) wears out flash. Generally flash is only good for so many read and write cycles (unless it has changed it used to be 1M and 100K respectively). So even using your phone is doing that. A good os should be able to keep track of bad bits and give a longer life as a result. Not sure if android is built that way but I would assume so.

Long story short if you only use The Nullifier once every day you will have 100K days of reliable operation :D. I think you would have moved to another phone by then :)
[T-Mobile LG G2x] Волк:
Actually it says:

"3. DO NOT USE SCRUBBER, NULLIFIER OR CLEANUP BATCH!!!"

Sounds to me like he expects you to dirty flash over your old ROM, lol. If his ROM is suffering from the "double-install" issue, that could be why, but if that's the case, then the ROM isn't actually being installed as that issue is a problem which occurs when /system isn't mounted and the ROM script tries to continue to install anyhow.

/rant

As far as wearing something out, puhlease. There's this little thing called a cache partition which gets more usage than other partitions so if "nand-failure" due to too many writes is a thing which has any chance of occurring in reality, it would be well known and wide-spread and well-documented, not an urban legend. Two people have maid a claim to having heard of it, it's always some guy on another board with some out-of-date device. Beyond that, every app install and every app update uses the cache AND data partition, web browsing creates and uses a data cache, more writes cycles; even if /cache had some super-special wear-leveling or wear proofing and the others didn't, again it would be well known and well-documented.

/end rant

For everyone: I am working on an update, a minor one, but one none the less, and should (keyword, should) be getting it up today sometime.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] mansa_noob:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#section_3 read limitations section.

What would I know... I only used to work building these and similar PROMs :D

It seems there may have been a 10x improvement since I was working on it. At 1M writes one would never see the issue.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] Волк:
Please read above post, again and more carefully. Once you're done, read it again, then stop and think about how quickly one would accumulate 1k writes, even merely on stock. And, yes it would take a damn long time to accumulate 1m writes.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] mansa_noob:
Yes, I agree. But if the flash in the g2x is the 100k type then over time cache would suffer.

Lets do some math shall we: first page of cache written all the time, say 50 times a day would result in failure of that page in 2000 days. If that is moderate use the heavy user could easily achieve that in 1/10th the time. 200 days is < 1 year. The page will fail, but a smart os would just reallocate and hence give longer time.

As I said, I used to work with these things... In heavy use you will see failures!

BTW I read what you wrote. It was very nice.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] menting:
you would only see 100k on SLC, not MLC, as most of these NAND should be.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5067/understanding-tlc-nand/2

at the 2x node, MLC only lasts for about 2k-3k cycles, and that's on average. the worst crap that might only last for 1k or less cycles go to the cheap flash drives, the middle crap might go to the sd cards. The best ones (the ones that really last 2k-3k or marginally more) go to SSDs. I should know, I work in a company that makes these.

The flash won't keep writing to the same page every time, even though it would think it was writing to the same page of cache like your example , as the controller inside should have write leveling logic to it, and will spread the writes evenly around. But you are still correct, under heavy use the flash will definitely see failures, and will happen sooner than one might expect.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] mansa_noob:
Awesome. I was hoping an expert would step in.

+1. And you are absolutely right that logic is required to ensure same bits are not stressed over and over again!

IMHO this should settle the debate :D
[T-Mobile LG G2x] Волк:
Ok, enough thread jacking. I could care less where you work or how old you are. Stating how long you've been around or where you work is just a sign of arrogance. Nand failure from too many writes is a myth with no proof, I see a bunch of if's, if this if that, like I said if it were feesable we'd have seen it spread widely on other devices by now, with or without the black-listing of bad sectors.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] menting:
WOW...you think it's a myth? Hardly.

I have a dead first generation (but not released) dead SSD from my company in my possession due to firmware not write leveling sector 0 and it wore out. The team leader for that project told me that all the first generation hard drives died about the same time as mine. He even checked it through our internal tools. That proof enough?

Want more proof? If it is a myth, why do SSD hard drives have a write endurance spec? Why do SSDs bother to overprovision? Why are NAND manufacturers worried about write endurance on new process nodes? I mean, if it's a myth, it shouldn't be something to worry about right? Apparently you know more about NAND than those manufacturers.

Here's even more proof. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?271063-SSD-Write-Endurance-25nm-Vs-34nm

I'd get you the write endurance distribution graphs from work if I could, but those numbers are proprietary. I can guarantee you though, it DOES wear out from writes.

To me, arrogance is one who doesn't work in the industry saying the person who does work in the industry is wrong without any proof.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] Волк:
Didn't I *just* say something about staying on topic?
[T-Mobile LG G2x] menting:
yes you did, and if you stopped at that I wouldn't have replied. But insulting someone's knowledge by saying a fact is a myth went a bit too far for me.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] Alakratt:
On my next flash I'll try this tool, haven't tried it since I get a little freaked out because of the word 'null', I am programmer so...yeah. I've looked most of the pages on this thread, I admit not all of them, I have a question; I know this wipes what needs to be wiped for ROM flashing, but does it wipe only that or the whole SD? Also, does it also wipe the internal SD?
[T-Mobile LG G2x] owain94:
What is exactly the point of "nullifing" the cache partition on a device where the cache partition isn't used??
[T-Mobile LG G2x] da-pharoah:
? ok and how is it not used? and if it "isn't used" why would we need to format it upon doing any update on something you say 'isnt used?"
[T-Mobile LG G2x] owain94:
Well the cache partition is normally used for the dalvik cache

But since our cache partition is so small we store the cache on the data partition (/data/dalvik-cache)

By defining dalvik.vm.dexopt-data-only=1 in the prop files or even the inits

And cache doesn't need to get wiped...

You can even boot your phone up with a corrupted (so unmounted) cache partition (yes is happened me once caused by that buggy touch recovery)

Also davik cache doesn't needs to be wiped on a update since android checks the dalvik and rebuild it when it is not matching the the system apps or frameworks hashes

So yeah cache partition is useless on this device

I have resized my partitions using NVflash too use the cache partition for the dalvik cache that is why i know it is normally useless

I don't know what you store on it but the 2 folders (lost+found and recovery) are not really needed for the system

Flashing new ROMs only need a full wipe if you change between major releases like between gingerbread and ics

I never wiped data / dalvik / cache since i am running ics and still no failures or any problems at all

Asked arcee once about it he also never wiped dalvik or cache in his device

You can search for the post google did make about how dalvik works in android if you do not believe me
[T-Mobile LG G2x] da-pharoah:
im gonna go with your misunderstanding him... basically yes wear and tear does happen. From what I gather he didnt call you a liar he just stated that 'in the field' there has been no reports of sd failure on a mass level to where we would consider not using format tools and nullify tools anymore. you even stated yourself that the card you had failed...... “but not released" so the general public didnt use those cards... as it happens with what we have going on with this script and the way android is the flash card manufactures, from what I read at the beginning of this project, have done so much dang R&D that they set the bar at 1m write cycles... thats why Volk went forward with this after he and I did lots of testing. Because we would generally not reach that level on our phones.... with these tools.. so calm down killer its not like he is calling you a liar flat out or something.

edit:

yea idk.. it sounds believable except you have an o2x... we have a g2x... so until you tell me that you have done that on the g2x and had no issues then I would probably agree with you and the nvflash findings you've done.... but being that these two phones are different its kinda hard to believe that pretty much taking away (re-partitioning) the /cache partition is ok and you wont have any issues... thats pretty much like saying the /cache partition on ALL android devices isn't used....
[T-Mobile LG G2x] mustangtim49:
OK boys! Play nice! I'm the only one that's supposed to be flaming anyone around here

artifintel@ACSyndicate.net
[T-Mobile LG G2x] Волк:
http://www.addictivetips.com/mobile...plained-boot-system-recovery-data-cache-misc/

"/cache

This is the partition where Android stores frequently accessed data and app components. Wiping the cache doesn’t effect your personal data but simply gets rid of the existing data there, which gets automatically rebuilt as you continue using the device."

Or if you want something more authoratitive we have our very own XDA:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1097464

Doesn't sound useless to me. All this is turning into SPAM and I have other things I'm in the middle of or would like to do with my time, having to attend to petty questions which are either not necessary or have been discussed are a waste, go back to your respective thread and stay there, I don't troll your threads, don't troll mine.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] rosevilletoyota:
So it seems that we can run this tool unlimited times with no risk?
[T-Mobile LG G2x] menting:
Hopefully I was wrong and misunderstood him. I apologize if I misunderstood.

I just don't like the fact that people think it's not an issue, because it is, and it's becoming more and more of an issue with new process nodes. I keep telling my friends that if they were to buy a SSD, stay away from the newest process nodes if possible. Why do enterprises use SLC instead of MLC? Write endurance is one of the biggest reasons, if not the biggest reason.

Tools like the Nullifier are fine. There's a need for them. But don't use it religiously, because it does eat into the write cycles pretty quickly if used that way. Use it when needed, and one should never have any issues with these tools. There's a reason why Windows 7 doesn't turn on defrag for SSDs, because it does a ton of writes every time it runs, and it WILL cause issues down the road.

I think that's all I have to say about this now, unless someone says it's a myth again.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] Волк:
Yes, you misunderstood me, yes I will call it a myth until I start seeing post after post on XDA saying "nand failure due to too many writes (confirmed)". If I need to I will get a mod to step in because I can say "myth" all I want and if you don't like it, as I said, leave my thread.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] menting:
Spreading misinformation isn't the way that one should conduct themselves imo. Especially since you are a dev, and people tend to believe whatever devs say, so you should hold yourself to the highest standard possible in order to better the community. Don't say stuff is only myth unless you have absolute proof, either for or against.

I'm just trying to give correct information and calling things out the way they are.

If a Mod believes that trying to correct the misinformation given should not be done , by all means, delete my posts.

btw, once a nand starts failing, it means ECC will start becoming insufficient and will start failing, and it'll slowly become more and more unstable. There's no easy way to just show it without the tools that actually read the status of each nand cell, and therefore there will definitely be no posts saying nand failure due to too many writes.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] kolyan:
so now devs claim this tool causes more harm then good..... lol

ps. been using CW wipe for long time without issues
[T-Mobile LG G2x] da-pharoah:
yes but thats not a full cleaning process... the wipe in CWM is the same as the scrubber which is eqivelent to sweeping the floor in your kitchen then putting all that swept stuff under the rug by the back door..... versus using the dust pan to gather that stuff up and clean that right up!!! Such as the Nullifier does. Just fyi. lol
[T-Mobile LG G2x] ayysir:
Tools like these shouldn't be used for every wipe, more like a maintenance tool for months worth of using and flashing roms. Cwm does a great job is quick cleaning the system, so use that for crack flashing and nullifer for maintenance
[T-Mobile LG G2x] maxesxp:
guys, volk has mentioned multiple times to stop hijacking his thread. y dont we just leave it at, use cwm unless u exprerience a problem and then flash nullifier and see if it fixes anything up. okay?
[T-Mobile LG G2x] mansa_noob:
Got it. I won't hijack but will still reply if the reply can help someone (or more).

IMHO everyone's job is to help others. The Nullifier was written with the same intent and admired as such.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] rosevilletoyota:
What to Think??

After reading these past post I am more confused? Flip a coin to who I believe. I am a Mac user. I am always doing clean installs on my Hard drive and have never had an issue? Not sure if this is the same thing or not. I even have an app that constantly monitors my drives integerty. Maybe we need an app the monitors our phones cell integerty? I am getting ready to install Genesis v1 - Beta5 and he is firm against this tool. Not sure why?? :eek::eek::eek: more confused then ever

---------- Post added at 07:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 PM ----------

I mean reformating with zero's
[T-Mobile LG G2x] mansa_noob:
Maybe you should ask the dev why he is against it.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] da-pharoah:
Simple reading returns the idea of Aroma Installer.... but feel free to ask ..
[T-Mobile LG G2x] overground:
Ok. I've read over the last few pages and I see both sides of the debate.

IMO, both arguments hold some validity.

I have personally used this tool with no ill effects, and my phone seemed to run better after having used it (I have no hard data to provide to substantiate this).

That being said, I would advise users of 3 things.

1. (Obviously) Use at your own risk.

2. Overuse of the tool could (but is not proven to) be detrimental to the device.

3. Read and use common sense when making the decision to use this (or any other) experimental tool.

Everyone's arguments have been heard and made, and I have not removed any pertinent posts as I believe them to help inform the end user of their ultimate decision.

Please keep this discussion on-topic and civil as I will not hesitate to exercise my powers on those who attempt to further derail the thread.

Thank you for your cooperation.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] x0xhellx0x:
I understand it is hard when someone questions or says something about your work when your very passionate about what you do. i say take a deep breath and relax if you don't like it don't use it if you like it use it it is a simple concept i use this all the time and have never ever ever had a problem unless i have forgotten to flash something aka human error lets all play nice and appreciate the hard work volk has put in to this

have a great day

John C Craig

x0xhellx0x
[T-Mobile LG G2x] da-pharoah:
So still think its awesome that your last name is my first name.. I hardly ever see that...
[T-Mobile LG G2x] Волк:
OP updated and added 2 new Q&A's; the last two Q&A's are the new ones.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] Alakratt:
Ok, I've been using your tool (great work btw), didn't know that it was formatting in ext3. I've been using ICS Roms, do they format to ext4 when installing? Or do they stick with ext3?
[T-Mobile LG G2x] da-pharoah:
Just depends on the dev.. different flavors of ice cream has different ingredients... :)
[T-Mobile LG G2x] Alakratt:
Hmm, currently I'm using AOKP b34, guess I'll look which format that uses. Thanks for the reply man!

Hehe, nice use of puns btw!
[T-Mobile LG G2x] da-pharoah:
yea check it out... easiest way is open up terminal emulator and type 'mount'

then press enter and it will tell you your mounts info.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] Волк:
I believe that all ROMs for G2x format /system ext4. I could be wrong but I think the kitchen creates the install script for the ROM and it's not something the dev writes, except AOKP, since it uses AROMA and HFS, which Hell and I tweaked a little. Some kernels convert the partitions to ext4 (which is how I have the Nullified do it).
[T-Mobile LG G2x] Jeffro64:
That's one way to do it but in the past it didn't always show all of the partitions accurate for some reason. There is a way to do it from recovery and mount in adb, but I can't remember exactly how it's done. I thought it was mount /system in recovery then type mount in adb but that didn't work for me the other day. It's been about a year since I did it that way so I can't remember for the life of me LOL.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] Jakkumn:
When I attempt to run 2.0.6, it gives me a (Status 6) Installation aborted message. Notes to fix...? Could it be due to the size difference between the original and the new? The new on is about 100kb less in size.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] rosevilletoyota:
New Nulifier

1st I ran the original version. Then I ran the new one and it soon quit with an error message. Anyone else have these issues? thanks:eek:
[T-Mobile LG G2x] Волк:
Hmm, I believe I changed the update-binary in the new ones, I will switch them tomorrow.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] te_quiero_forever_girl:
I appreciate your work but I don't really get what's the real point or benefit behind this. It basically provides the same functionality as the wipe(s) methods in CWM, but takes a lot longer and MAY mess up your phone if stopped when in progress.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] x0xhellx0x:
The benefit of this is cause people crack flash a lot of the the old roms leave residual data that can inter fear it make people think that a to. Is not good even thou it is
[T-Mobile LG G2x] da-pharoah:
So I'm gonna add u meant to say rom instead of 'to.' Haha I've made that typo before too..
[T-Mobile LG G2x] Core Memory:
Good question and good point.

The standard NAND flash writing procedure first erases the block data which is to be written to with ones then writes the data. That is what CWM and every other program does which properly writes to NAND memory. Using a separate utility for NAND erasure is redundant.

One question, why does the Nullifier write zeros for erasure when erasure requires ones?

"The Nullifier.

This uses a special command in combination with a special file to overwrite the internal partitions with 0's, hence "Null" for 0 and "-ifier" for the fact that it does something. It also formats *all* the partitions afterward and *new* checks for, and repairs any errors on them."
[T-Mobile LG G2x] stevew84:
Where is the download link?
[T-Mobile LG G2x] rosevilletoyota:
Help

Any idea way I get an error when I run your newest version Does Not work. Anyone else have problems with it working??? Thanks
[T-Mobile LG G2x] Jakkumn:
rosevilletoyota, Волк did say that he messed with the update binaries and will fix them.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] rosevilletoyota:
Cool must have missed that thanks:D
[T-Mobile LG G2x] Волк:
Just touching bases, once I have a chance to breathe I'll be able to put out a version with a different binary.
[T-Mobile LG G2x] Jeffro64:
There was a way to check the formatting of partitions in recovery and adb, but it's been awhile since I did it that way. I tried the other day thinking it was mount /system in recovery then type mount in adb, but that didn't work. Any idea how that's done?
[T-Mobile LG G2x] Волк:
Mount is just to make a mount-point accessible or mount as r/o or r/w, or mount as a different file system (eg, mount an ext3 partition as ext4). Off the top of my head I don't know how to get file system info from CWM, but if you do a search I am sure you should be able to find it rapidly. In adb, I *think* you could use parted, I don't fdisk will do all that you want.