yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
I'm not a lawyer but Asus is asking you to obviate your original warranty by you choosing to modify their device. That to me is the same thing as denying coverage unilaterally which is what Magnuson-Moss is designed to prevent. I don't think they can deny all coverage (while it's a nice benefit for them) which was part of the original warranty the device came with no matter what you agree to. It would be the same thing in the car industry where in order to get your car serviced you were forced to sign away your rights to every modifying your car. That I know is prohibited by Magnuson-Moss as it’s an obvious end-run around the act and has been tested (and it failed) before. If there are any attorneys here it would be interesting to see which trumps which (original warranty/Magnuson-Moss vs. Asus' supplement).
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] qubz:
BarryH makes a good point with the MM arguement. This would supersede those terms by ASUS. Also you can not be forced to contract without 2 signatures. Pressing an icon after reading some outrageous terms does not equal a contractual agreement.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Col.Kernel:
As in why the Hell did we buy this thing in the first place when we knew about all the issues?

Quite a few of the issues can be resolved by the devs here on XDA. Case in point, one dev has already fixed the screen flicker that Asus can't be arsed to fiddle with.

So now we have to void our warranty on unrelated issues to get software issues fixed by a 3rd party.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] rand4ll:
It can. I just signed my taxes to the IRS with nothing but computer buttons that if I falsify could land me in prison.

The MM argument certainly has credence if you were to find a way to modify the bootloader yourself. Then they would have to prove your modification did cause the issue you ate claiming warranty on to deny it.

But by using their tool you agree to terms of having your warranty void. You are not coerced into agreeing to the terms or unlocking your bootloader, it is a choice that is solely yours to make. I don't agree with the approach of voiding the entire warranty either but the way it is being done does clear them of liability.

I can speak with a lawyer about it next week as I'm sure many others can but I think it will be fruitless.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Is there a way of bypassing the agreement page by downloading and executing the code offline?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] czerdrill:
I don't know how to make it clear to you and BarryH. It's different if you, without the aid of ASUS somehow figure out how to unlock the bootloader. Then no, under MM, they cannot deny you service UNLESS they prove that your unlocking of the bootloader caused the problem.

However, the MM act doesn't apply if they provide a warranty, in writing, of what will happen if you use their tool to unlock their bootloader. Its silly to suggest that a company can't modify their warranty if you agree to their terms. If that was the case, throttling simply could not exist.

This tool was delayed because per Gary Keyes himself, they were working on the "legalese"...you really think they're not aware of the MM act? Of course they are. And of course their lawyers pored over the act, tooth and nail. It's a nice pipe dream to think you can say "Magunson. Moss. Act." and ASUS will scream in fear, but that's not what will happen. What they'll say is "You. Agreed. Man." and there goes that.

I'm sorry but MM doesn't apply here, because you AGREED that it doesn't apply. No ifs, ands or buts.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Are you an attorney? You seem so confident.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] czerdrill:
No I'm not. But I can read, and what you're suggesting is NOT what the MM act says.

The MM act deals mostly with warranties BEFORE a sale, including misrepresentation BEFORE the sale.

Do you really believe that ASUS' lawyers never heard of Magnuson-Moss or that they're hoping that their customers never heard of it and can somehow "pull a fast one"?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
No.

Possibly.

As a layman your opinion is as good as mine which means pretty much useless. It'll be interesting to see what an attorney says. I can check with my in-house council next week.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] rand4ll:
I was also thinking of this approach, definitely something to look into. If the app never had you agree yet still unlocked then you would certainly have some ground to stand on under MM.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
So is their download thingy collecting your serial number and adding it to a database or as a "mark" on your permanent record? The reason I ask is that unless that's so, they wouldn't be able to tell whether a bootloader was unlocked by their tool or by some other means. So where do you think what they're collecting goes?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] czerdrill:
Yes, I invite you to check with your in-house council as soon as possible (I can't imagine why it would take till next week since they're "in-house" :D Vacation, maybe? haha) To think that ASUS' lawyers could "possibly" think they'd be able to pull a fast one is incredible naive. No company, worth its weight in cow dung, would try to cheat its customers so transparently. Believe me...ASUS went over the "legalese".

What you're suggesting would turn every industry upside down. Credit card companies couldn't update their terms, OEMs couldn't change their warranties based on post-sale modifications, car manufacturers couldn't tell you that replacing your engine would void your original engine's warranty etc.

It's a nice pipe dream, but the minute you explicitly

agree

that your warranty is void...it's void.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] mtotho:
The main thing I agree with: If we are going to void our warranty (which I did without hesitation because I do not ever plan to return), why not give us full unlock.

Asus has done everything they promised (and everything I want really) and unlocked to a point where I can install custom roms, but there is clearly a desire for a full unlock. I just want to know, Why not?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
EXACTLY!

That won't hold up at all..lmao they agreed to terms. If they don't like it, then don't unlock. Once they unlock, a virtual contract of sorts of that person agreeing tl terms is signed. The virtual signature being your serial number that gets sent back tl Asus. They not the first one to implement this. HTC Motorola others have this also.

I've seen several people here in this forum mess up their prime themselves then return device back to store like they don't know how it occurred. You have people know blindly unlocking without knowing the full consequence of their actions. Even one returned tablet to best buy when he found out he couldn't receive OTA updates anymore. You have all sorts of people here messing around in system files and messing up their primes then sending it in for RMA or send back to where they bought it. Asus not really accountable for any of that. Those are the ones that mess it up for everyone and the reason Asus states the disclaimer. You are modifying the tablet to a state that it wasn't meant to be put in. Adding extra stresses or whatever to components. How can you expect them to pay for others mistake? I understand the gripe about if a hardware issue happens while unlocked but even still. Just dont take thst risk and unlock then. Simple solution. We have several people know who bricked their prime alone from doing stuff with unlock tool. Nothing hardware related at all. If you don't want warranty voided, don't unlock. Simple as that. Wait until an unofficial unlock tool becomes available then.

But thinkn Asus will change that disclaimer or that you could actually fight it in court is not happening. If HTC, Motorola, n other companies haven't changed that universal disclaimer, then you shouldn't expect Asus to also.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Wordlywisewiz:
Ddos attack the site its being sent to and have everyone unlock hehe :)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] scataldo721:
IMO it should only void your warranty for software stress stuff like overclocking there should still be a warranty for hardware.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] czerdrill:
Absolutely. There should be. The problem is they say there shouldn't be...and you agreed...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
That's life..lol you agreed to their terms in virtual contract. You can't sign a contract(which you do virtually by agreeing to it and your serial number is sent) and just think you can simply back out of it or renig on it. This contract is nothing new to the mobile phone or tablet scene.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] scataldo721:
this only effects the asus warranty tho if u have a product replacement plan with best buy that warranty is still good so im not worried(:calways have a plan B
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] qubz:
Theoretically, you could re-sign the un-locker then upload it to some where so others could download and use it without the agreement attached. Someone would have to test it still works though at the risk of wrecking their device :O

cz, I see your point, but to me this is accepting what most product manufacturers do nowadays by forcing consumers into agreements that challenge the rights of the consumer in the knowledge that they (the manufacturers) have more money beat the consumer in lengthy court battles.

The times we live in is that of ever increasing erosion of the rights of the consumer and this is very un-constitutional.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Another

absolute

opinion from a non-attorney. The question (which only an attorney can answer) is "can Asus obviate your original warranty because you intend to modify their device?" What it comes down to is Asus is forcing you to give up your warranty rights in order to modify your device. That’s what Magnuson-Moss was specifically enacted to prevent. Magnuson-Moss is a big complicated Federal Act and I certainly don't understand its implications fully and I sincerely doubt others here would also (unless they are attorneys).

I’m not saying for a fact that Asus’ lawyers aren’t right, I’m saying minds greater than ours need to weigh in before drawing a conclusion.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] czerdrill:
Exactly. I mean we can all technically take it to court, but the outcome is obvious. You agreed to their terms. If you realized you were getting screwed and took it to court BEFORE you unlocked, then yes maybe you'd have a case. But the minute you unlock, you (voluntarily or involuntarily) agree to the terms they set forth. Taking it to court would be an incredible waste of time and money. If you have money to waste, then feel free, but the outcome is...obvious.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
Unfortunately this is the truth. HOW ABOUT IF ASUS JUST NEVER RELEASED THE DAMN UNLOCK TOOL? How many would beg to have this contract then. This is nothing new. Asus said wayyy back that it was going tl go down like this. Some people never satisfied. People cried about ICS. We got it. Then cried about unlock tool. Now we got. Unlock tool is an optional thing that people should be grateful Asus even released it. They were under no legal obligation tl do so. They did it for developement community but only based on terms theyblaid out. Pressing buttons easily is the same as a signature. Just like this guy said with doing taxes online. You press wrong buttons or lie online about something, you in trouble. Just like when you on their site you agree to be monitored. Its in disclaimer on IRS site. This the digital age now. Court doesn't need physical signatures anymore to be proven a contract was agreed to and signed.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] czerdrill:
Absolutely there's a certain level of "acceptance". I mean, who among us really is going to take on a whole corporation. Unless they're doing something so blatantly egregious most of us will say "Hmmm...that's unfair but what choice do I have??"

But this is a little different really. We wanna believe that ASUS' lawyers haphazardly rushed this thing out without considering Magnuson-Moss, but believe me they did. There's no way they didn't. They cannot force you to agree with their terms, but the minute you unlock you do agree with their terms.

Of course its upto a court to decide, but there doesn't seem to be any logical way to suggest that you (or I) would win a case where we explicitly agreed (by the terms of what we were agreeing to) that we were screwed.

"If you sign this, you agree"..."Ok, here's my signature"..."Hey...wait a minute!!!!"

The onus is unfortunately on the signer....
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] qubz:
Nicely put. Until they change their policy to this or an unofficial un-locker is released, I'm staying locked.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] czerdrill:
The first word in your response says it all. It's unfortunate, absolutely. But it is what it is. Everyone here can fight it, but when you agree...you agree. It's going to be hard to convince a court, a grand jury, or whoever the hell else decides this sort of thing that "it's not fair".
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Seriously, is there anything Asus could possibly do that you wouldn't defend? There's no reason on earth they couldn't have unlocked the bootloader and simply said "if we find user initiated s/w changes caused a defect we won't warrant it." The TF101 wasn't locked down and there didn't seem to be a mass wave of user created s/w errors that would cause Asus to take the stance they have. The company you love to hate doesn't lock their bootloaders and seems to be surviving nicely.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] czerdrill:
As am I...as much as I don't want to and at least until my OEM warranty is actually expired in which case it wouldn't matter!
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
OK. Let me put it like this. I agree its not right to void a warranty over a software issue when its unlocked. BUT Asus didn't force anyone to do anything. You willingly download the unlock tool. You WILLINGLY have to read all the terms and agreements before you can get to the actual tool working. You willingly press OK. Once that OK or whatever is pressed. That's your virtual signature. Then Asus has proof by your serial number being uploaded to their database. No way around that contract if you use "Their" tool. If people would just be patient, let the smarts brains and developers here in xda try to make an unofficial lock tool. JUST LIKE HTC. An unofficial unlock was out before they got around to releasing an official one. Let xda do its thingand go the unofficial route. So you can unlock and then lock it back up if needed. No trace of device being unlocked. So you don't have to agree to Asus terms. Patience is a virtue. Everyone in such a rush for everything. That's not how the world works. Everyone is not on our time. Lets just be glad they even released a tool so it can be reverse engineered into making an unofficial tool. I have faith in xda. This not the first time this has happened. And won't be the first time someone came up with an unofficial method.

Good debate though ;) lol
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] czerdrill:
And that's exactly it. Under Magnuson-Moss there is NO WAY that Asus can deny you warranty service if you didn't use their tool. Why? Because you simply DID NOT use their tool. But if you did, you agreed to their terms. And that's where you lose the battle. Because saying "I didn't read the terms" or "the terms were unfair" is irrelevant. If you clicked that OK, or made the conscious decision to unlock your bootloader you agreed to their terms. It would be INCREDIBLY difficult to prove to any court that you were not of sound mind when you clicked OK. It just wouldn't happen...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Here's HTC's disclaimer. Thoughts?

It is our responsibility to caution you that not all claims resulting or caused by or from the unlocking of the bootloader may be covered under warranty.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
To me it sounds like at least they saying they will check out the device to see what happens. As far as i know, Asus won't even look at the device if its been unlocked.

But HTC can say that and still easily deny warranty claim once they figure out it was caused by unlocking. Thing is there is no one to challenge them or Asus or anyone. Unless you have money to burn, I can see no way of fighting this against a big corporation with pockets deeper than whole generations of families will never see.

Maybe the laws do need to be changed and updated. Until someone fights it and wins, it's a longevity. Whoever wins it would have new law or act named after them or their case.

Honestly after seeing all these people here semi and hard Brick their prime after unlocking, I'm very Leary of unlocking. Can't afford to unlock and device possibly goes down due to hardware issue and Asus pull some b.s. and my warranty voided because I unlocked. Oh noooo see ree...they won't get me with my pants down like that...lmao ill wait till an unofficial method is developed. Might come sooner than we think. Then we don't have to use Asus tool at all.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Ya think?

And think about what's not covered:

1) Chargers that fail frequently

2) Pogo pins that can easily be misaligned with impact

3) Screens seperating from the chassis

None of those things (and others) could ever be attibuted to s/w and now Asus is off the hook repairing them. Not good sportsmanship.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
I AGREE. But since we know those type of things can occur, why risk warranty and unlock then? You have some people that don't care about warranty at all and just unlock. These people are likely to be developers or people very knowledgeable on how to fix device from a software issue. Then you have people who are ignorant to researching on all details involved and consequences that unlock. These are mostly the ones who end up bricking their device. They doing stuff just to be doing it. These are the ones that complain that they didn't know they couldn't receive OTA updates anymore or warranty voided from unlocking..lol. these are the noobs. Then you have people who haven't unlocked yet because they know the details and risks involved. These are the patient ones who will either wait out till manufacturer warranty ends or use an unofficial method to unlock. So they can still use warranty of anything happens. With the random issues spread across the primes, minority of users or not, its too big of a risk to take. I'd say if tablet is working well for a couple to ffew months, chances are very high device won't fail down the road. Then you would have made a better decision to unlock after you've seen how device holds up. Plus we still don't know if Asus will extend u.s. warranties due to GPS issues or whatever like overseas has. I love to take risks and be first at a lot of things bit some risks are just too big or costly to just jump in at. This unlock tool, based on Asus terms, IMO, is one of them.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] antizen:
Guys just because you agree to something does not make it law!

You cannot sign away your consumer rights, its law not for you or Asus to change.

You have a right to have a product fit for purpose.

If its a hardware issue and they say they they wont fix is because of software changes its not on.

Dell and HP tried this in UK via PCWorld where users loaded Linux on Windows Pre built machines and PCWorld lost the cases.

Prove its a hardware issue and not a software issue and win.

Remember your warranty is with the Seller and not the Manufacturer, the seller may say otherwise to make the sellers life easy skipping middle man.

So if you have an issue that is definitely hardware and you can prove ie. hinge broken on dock, screen lifting.....Then follow up with seller.

If you bricked your prime....sorry guys your probably screwed, you could try your luck with seller but legally if they deny going to small claims court would probably end in a loss.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] dannb:
In this thread: People with zero law experience (though some more informed than others) complaining about capitalism.

To slightly step away from the topic of warranties for a moment:

Current copyright laws that are being lobbied and pushed through in both the US and Canada include sections on so-called "digital locks", and the breaking of such locks would become illegal and punishable under law. I spoke with a friend who just wrote the LSATs and will be entering law school soon if breaking the lock on a bootloader (such as on our devices or jailbreaking an iPhone) would be considered breaking a digital lock, which is usually used on media such as Blu-rays and game software. What we are proposing in this thread and is already possible on many devices would potentially become illegal.

Thus, these unlock tools released by the manufacturers that require the breaking of the warranty and the tracking of your serial number would become the only way of legally unlocking the bootloader and allowing for all of our beloved mods. It could be just the tip of the iceberg.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Blairware:
The hypocrites have arrived

I predicted we would hear this line of BS yesterday. The OP does not so much as deserve a comment from Gary. Calling him out like it's his call on the legal side of this. Gary is a SUPPORT Manger, not ASUS POLICY MAKER. It is simple. Lot's of things aren't where the Prime is concerned, but this is. You can NOT have it both ways. End of story. Want to mod your device? Feel free, but you give up your right to warranty. You acknowledge it, when you do so.

Don't be such BABIES! I was just waiting for this BS to start, all the folks who said: Unlock it, just remove the warranty if that's what it takes, Then when the reality of that settles in, and folks start bricking devices, or playing where they have no idea what they are doing, you can't turn around and give Asus a hard time. Well you can, but you are a whining hypocrite if you do.

If you don't have the balls to own it, don't **** with it. I don't want to give up 10 Months of warranty just yet, as much as I like to mod things. Build one yourself, if you can do better, otherwise make a choice and stand by it.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
I read about that. Pirating is the culprit to push this kind of movement being enforced. Why do you think megaupload had been shut down? Lol or whatever its name is. You go to their site now to try to see a pirated movie and you're greeted with a giant FBI sign stating that site is **** down due to illegal activity and copy right infringements and more.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Blairware:
LOL is that **** down a typo or a intentional slip. Got some tired thumbs there form debating with Barry, LOL! Lets give it a rest for now,, we are not going to change this one iota. But an unofficial unlocker? That would solve a lot of problems, LOL!
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Col.Kernel:
Because XDA devs can quickly fix things Asus is slow to look at, like this cursed screen flicker. A warranty that isn't honored is no better than a warranty that's been voided.

Or buy the 2 year Square Trade warranty for $90, there's nothing in there that's voided by decrypting the bootloader.

Of course between the $100 Bluetooth GPS puck and the $90 3rd party warranty you're starting to rack up some significant additional costs that should have been included in the initial purchase.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jdbaker82:
No as in why would you root or unlock your bootloader with all the issues with lockups etc.... I wouldnt want mine to be rooted when they are playing musical chairs with patches.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Col.Kernel:
The middle paragraph I posted answered that question; the XDA devs will probably fix software issues faster than Asus will.

But I don't have my Square Trade warranty yet, so no unlocking for me.