yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] DanoUF:
Interesting way to try and skirt the law. If they were to go to court this would fall apart. Trying to claim that new software makes it a new product that has never had a warranty likely won't hold-up.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] blackinjun:
Boy i did not feel like reading 10 pages of back and forth on this, The bottom line is that they provided something and in return you agreed to give up your warranty. Magnuson, car rims and exhausts, none of it is relevant. In using the unlocker you affirm that you release them from warranty coverage, your choice not theirs.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] DanoUF:
There is not a provision in M-M for modification to a previous warranty. It is expressly forbidden. That's why in the agreement they are trying to make the argument that it is now a "revised product" and is no longer a the " original product" that was warranteed. Again going back to the auto industry that would be like Chevy telling me that because I've had repair work done on my car it is no longer 100% the "original product" I purchased that it is now a "revised product" that I have lost all warranty on. Guess what this has been to court and deemed illegal. Why should it be different for ASUS?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] rand4ll:
Yes, but I question if this warrant addendum is considered forced at all. They did not change the warranty behind the scenes and say that is just how it is. In asus case with the prime the only way the warranty is modified is if the end user explicitly agrees to that modification.

It's certainly interesting and I would love to hear from an actual lawyer on it.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Swiftks:
This is BS... I'm sorry but I have to call a spade a spade when I see one.

We got exactly what we wanted, a unlocked bootloader. Moreover, we got it when we were told we would get it, in February. And now people want to *****, b/c they will loose their warranty?! If you're that uptight, then the solution is simple, don't unlock your bootloader!!! I've owned plenty of android devices, never have I seen so many people wine about their warranty... most Android users understand that you will loose your warranty when unlocking the bootloader, just like on almost every other device!! Get over it, unlock or don't, but you shouldn't be surprised and/or upset because you can't have your cake & eat it too.

Sent from my CM7 Atrix 4G
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
Plaintiff involved in case supposedly received his prime after Asus announced GPS spec removal. He didn't even go thru proper channels or chain of command to resolve the issue. Plus Asus states on website that changes to spec can be made at anytime without warning or needing approval from anyone. So when you bought the product, you have to abide by warranty contract to resolve any issues. This guy didn't try to send his device in for an rMA, didn't try to exchange it at any stores. He didnt try to use his warranty at all. All he did was read some forums, probably this one, where some people stated that some received device back from RMA and GPS wasn't fixed to their liking.

He had all the opportunity to get a refund, exchange his device, or even use the warranty that the device came with. He didn't follow any of the proper procedures you meed take when dealing with a defective product. Just because some people on a forum state something, it can't be taken as fact. Especially if they don't work for the company at all. So he simply tried to make all this fuss about his device, when he didn't even follow the right procedures to remedy the situation. Howbcan the company be blamed if he never tried to use the warranty that's given when product is purchased? Its going to all fall back on him.

A rough example would be someone getting sick. Then person reads online that that hospital has been known to have issues or whatever. So the person never attempts to go to that hospital. That person gets even more sick. So he goes out n tries to sue that hospital because he read they might not properly be able to treat him.. its not the hospital fault he made a bad assumption of what he read online. He should've taken his a#& to the hospital(same as trying to use the warranty given by Asus) . I said it was a rough example..lol all I could think of..lol.

I know a lil more about that case than what we read so far. Just a lil ;)

---------- Post added at 02:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:31 PM ----------

Oh...you all have done it NOW! Lol SwiftK jump in on the action and calling it like he sees or or like it is...lmfao. he has a point though. This unlock thing is nothing new and the risks involved.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] blackinjun:
This argument is not parallel. If GM were to offer you an adjustable performance module to replace your original governed one under the condition that you give up all warranty coverage and you said yes, You would not have a warranty with GM. IT is not a modification of the warranty.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Col.Kernel:
This is the most common argument I see in favor of the manufacturer.

And it's a load of utter crap. Asus makes laptops, I can install whatever OS (or specifically overclocking utility) on their laptop without voiding their warranty. Or voiding Intel's/AMD's warranty.

But more to the point, if I install Linux on a Windows laptop from Asus and the Ethernet port stops working my warranty is not voided. Much as if I were to install a ROM on my Prime and 3 months later have dead pixels show up. Only in this case the warranty on my Prime is voided because of this piece of legalese.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
What do you guys do for a living? Some of the positions you take are based purely on your personal experiences and opinions. While valid, they have nothing to do with the legal ramifications of some of the behaviors we're discussing.

None of what you said about the plaintiff in the wireless case not exercising remedies has anything to do with Asus winning or losing a case where they are being accused of misrepresentation and knowingly selling a defective product. If the first Prime was sold at 2:30PM on December 22 and it was indeed misrepresented and knowingly defective then Asus needs to defend against why they allowed that to occur. No matter what followed on their side or the plaintiffs.

None of this is black and white and no one here (so far and including me) has either the necessary background information or skills to make a final determination.

---------- Post added at 11:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 AM ----------

Great example and its been tested. They cannot void your entire cars warranty by adding a single (or multiple) components. That might be able to void the warranty on certain directly related powertrain components but your A/C, power windows, and radio would still be covered.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
AGREED! None of us know all the facts or legal experts. All our debates on this matter only can be based off personal opinions or experiences. I'm just stating my view on it with my points to back it up. Just like you n everyone else in this thread is doing. Nothing wrong with that. I never said what I said was the absolute final result or an expert in the matter. Just stating how I see it, based on what I've learned of it so far. Whether its the Asus case or the unlock warranty thing. I'm not getting mad you don't agree. Nothing wrong with difference of opinion. I see both sides having very valid points. I do agree its f?!#?! Up that they would void warranty if you unlock based on if there's a hardware issue and nothing relating to unlock tool itself. But that is what you agree to in the terms, conditions, and risks involved with using the tool. ASUS not holding a gun to anyone to force them to use it. If you think the terms aren't fair or seem sketchy, just simply don't use the official tool. Wait for an unofficial method to be released by xda community. We need to give more credit/faith in the community that they can overcome this hurdle. As they have done in the past before.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] chamberc:
Fail. Read more carefully. The transformer prime is not a Car.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Magnuson-Moss is a Federal warranty protection act. Not a car warranty protection act. It's been tested most thoroughly in the auto industry which is why I posted that particular article. It applies universally to all products sold in the U.S. with a warranty.

Here's an old example involving Asus where they bumped up against M-M previously...

http://www.dailytech.com/ASUS+Eee+PC+May+Violate+GPL+MagnusonMoss+Warranty+Act/article9759.htm
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] blackinjun:
Is it just me or are people arguing a situation that is not relevant, Asus is not voiding or changing warranty terms. We are voluntarily giving up the warranty in exchange for a consideration from Asus
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
The debate is over whether they are legally allowed under Federal law to nullify your entire warranty whether it's voluntary or involuntary. Based on precedent it would seem they can't. Until a lawyer who is versed in M-M renders an opinion we won't know for sure.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] DanoUF:
Fail? Have you read the M-M Act or the discussions. It is a general law governing warranties on consumer products, not auto industry specific. As stated in one of my earlier posts the reason for all of the car talk is that when it was initially enacted in 1975 it was due to a lot warranty games the auto industry was playing.

As for my arguments they are not predicated on my personal experience but discussion w/ an intellectual property/patent attorney who works w/ me about this, reading of the M-M act, and some of the precedents that were set. It is fully possible that I have misunderstood or misinterpreted something that I was told, but the discussion was fairly extensive and I think I relayed it fairly accurately.

The one thing I would like to check is how this attempt at recharacterizing the unlocked Prime as an unwarranted new product will be viewed by the lawyer. As I stated earlier, I believe they used this language as an attempt to get around the M-M prohibition on changing the warranty terms. My guess is that whether or not it would hold up in court will boil down to the judge.

Finally to address SwiftKs: This all may be BS, but I'm not discussing this due to my burning desire to unlock my prime. Not planning on it in the near future. But I have watched consumer rights eroding for years, and honestly it kinda pisses me off. This has been enabled by the move to digital. Years ago you only bought rights to software, but slowly companies are trying to apply that same mentality to tangible objects. To the point where it seems like when you buy a new electronic do-dad you are now paying hundreds of dollars for the rights to use the doo-dad only as the manufacturer sees fit. Part of the reason I'm not a fan of the cloud is you as a consumer lose your rights to your own data in most cases. This is because current legislation is not written to defuse the abusive contracts of adhesion that are attached to everything these days.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] czerdrill:
which precedent? no one has supplied an example of something like this happening before...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] DanoUF:
Barry,

Good article

"The warranty only covers failures or malfunctions occurred during the warranty period and in normal use conditions as will as for any material or workmanship defect. The warranty will not apply if: (a) the product has been tampered, repaired, or modified by non-authorized personnel; ... (c) the warranty seals have been broken or altered; ..."

I actually caught this in the current warranty for the Prime also. I didn't point out that it was also in violation of the FTC regs pertaining to the M-M because it wasn't directly germane to the topic. I believe Packard Bell and a couple of other PC manufacturers got taken to task for their attempts to say you invalidated the warranty when you break those seals.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
Like you said, none of us here (I don't think) are lawyers or have the specifics of any outstanding legal cases. So, you can't really justify drawing all of these conclusions yourself as if they were fact.

Myself, I'd say that the warranty on a tablet isn't the same as a warranty on a car. Sure, blowing a car's engine doesn't necessarily cause the power windows to stop working. But, a tablet is a far more tightly integrated product--e.g., overclocking the processor (or changing out the kernel, or the wifi drivers, or whatever) could very well cause the wifi to break. It could conceivably be difficult to tell in such a device what caused a problem.

I think it's entirely acceptable for two parties to amend an agreement, such as in ASUS and a consumer agreeing to amend the original warranty in exchange for deeper access to the system. The only viable alternative would be for ASUS to simply refuse to provide such access. And if they did that, then everyone would be free to buy the product or not.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] 3rdamention:
I think it is wrong as well to VOID THE WARRANTY if you use the Boot Loader. It is a ridiculous concept on paper if you think about it.

ASUS provides the Boot Loader, which can allow people to really open up what their ASUS Prime can do. You really get full control of what you want to do on the device. However, if you use the Boot Loader that ASUS Provides, they will Void your Warranty?

It almost seems like Entrapment to me. I could see if the Bootloader was created by someone OUTSIDE of Asus, but this is THEIR tool, not some random hacker or something. After all the crap ASUS has put their paying customers through with the Prime and some of it's problems, I wouldn't even be shocked if someone sends in their Prime for Service and ASUS says "Sorry, you unlocked the Bootloader, we will not service this, you are out of luck!" When the person never used the Unlocker at all.

With such a "Use the Unlocker, Lose your Warranty" in place, it is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAy to convenient for ASUS to simply say you unlocked your bootloader and they will not service it. That would be very shady, but this is ASUS we are talking about.

Oh well, its ASUS, why are we surprised? They have set all the standards for 2012 and beyond for how NOT to run a company from the Quality Control and Customer Service Perspective. Heck, they send people from Marketing to help with your Hardware and Software issues, that should tell you all you need to know!!
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lolento:
Are u thick?

Asus is not invalidating any warranty retroactively. They let u make the choice.

If u want to make ur prime 'developer' version, u lose the warranty.

People who want Asus support don't unlock, enough said. Exactly the same as Moto.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wokka00:
This thread is slightly amusing. As I understand it, unlocking requires you, the user, to actively consent to waiver of your warranty. Asus isn't voiding the warranty unilaterally. Waiver of the warranty is entirely separate from the issue of the bootloader or software modification. Hypothetically speaking, it's not the software modification that's voiding the warranty, it's your active acceptance of the terms and conditions of the unlocked installation that waives it. If you're not happy with that, don't unlock the software. If you can't live without it unlocked, go build your own tablet.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
This is one of the strangest threads I’ve ever seen on XDA.

1) You bought Prime’s thinking the bootloader was unlocked because Asus never locked the bootloader on their previous devices.

2) You all screech like Chinese tree monkeys when you find out its locked and spam Asus to get it unlocked.

3) Asus grudgingly unlocks it but in doing so forces you to give up your entire warranty.

So now you’re worse off after paying $500 than you were from where you thought you started. A warranty is a feature. You all got giddy when Asus Taiwan said they were extending it by six months due to the GPS issue because you saw it as having value. By the simple act of unlocking your bootloader if your screen dies through no fault of s/w you could be on the hook for a $200+ repair. Now, there’s a bunch of you defending Asus' right to obviate their responsibilities when there appears to be no logical reason for it. I’ve never seen people on a forum defend any manufacturer’s right to take something away. In fact, they usually go nuts. There’s no formal definition of “fanboi” but if there was this seems to qualify.

I've posted supporting detail for any of the points I've made. I've also disclaimed multiple times that I'm not a lawyer nor well versed in the finer points of M-M. All you've offered is your elementary opinion with zero substantiation. I'll make you a deal. When you post something other than your opinion we can debate it.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
No, actually, speaking for myself here: I'm defending the right of two consenting parties (myself and ASUS) to enter into private agreements without interference. You're talking about jumping into the middle of this private agreement and telling me that I don't have the right to agree to it. I say, mind your own business.

Whether you want to accept it or not, ASUS is opening a huge can of worms by unlocking the bootloader--you simply cannot argue that people won't screw up their devices and then ask ASUS to spend extra time and resources fixing their own mistakes. It's already happening. Could ASUS be more selective in what they will and will not cover on unlocked devices? Certainly, but in today's litigious society it's probably impossible for them to come up with wording that will prevent them from harm. So, they pretty much have no choice but to make it an either-or proposition. Either they require agreement that the warranty is void, or they don't provide the unlock tool.

It's tiring to hear of people complaining like this. If you don't like what ASUS (or any company) is doing, then you have every choice not to buy their products. If ASUS ends up hurting their sales by this sort of policy, then that's as it should be. They have to make a decision--which costs them more money, losing sales to people who want to unlock without losing the warranty, or fixing devices that people screw up because they unlock them? As a business, they're duty-bound to make that kind of financial evaluation. They're supposed to be working to make money, not slaving away to grant the wishes of needy geek consumers with overblown entitlement mentalities.

Consider that Apple voids their warranty for anyone who jailbreaks an iPhone or iPad. And yet, they still sell tens of millions of iOS devices. Obviously, a company can be quite successful selling their products this way, because frankly most people couldn't care less about such things.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] DanoUF:
You know your right! Why haven't I seen it is the fault of the end user for accepting the EULA! Oh, and even though I haven't unlocked, any time there is a new version of Android ready for download, the EULA could strip all of my warranty from my tablet because hey it's a "revised device" after the update if ASUS so choses. This is why M-M holds businesses to the written warranty that is in effect at the time of sale.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
We'll see how you and others feel when you're paying out of pocket for repairs that would and should be covered by warranty. And you're right; Asus is taking the lead on a policy that is quite frankly harming the development community. If they get away with it and HTC and Samsung follow in their footsteps everyone can then thank Asus for their valuable contribution. :rolleyes:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] czerdrill:
your view on the subject is the strangest thing I've ever seen on xda. Rather then looking at what's actually happening, you've convinced yourself that asus has changed it's warranty without warning and with no agreement with its users. You're citing a law which has nothing to do with this case, again simply because you have to choose to agree to the terms that they present. They didn't pull a fast one and just change their warranty.

You've presented no evidence that any thing like this has ever happened, but you mention precedent.

Things like this happen all the time (meaning opt out changes made by a company). I don't get why some here act as if it doesn't. If you have the option to opt out, and you don't take that option, and rather go into an agreement with asus, your legal options become slim.

But, if you truly believe what you're saying, then you should be consulting a lawyer...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
This isn't a civil case. If Asus is violating M-M it's a violation of Federal law. It would be the FTC vs. Asus, not the consumer vs. Asus. But the good news is that even though you and others seem fine with giving up your warranty you'll get it back anyway if Asus is in the wrong.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] blackinjun:
czerdrill has stated what a number of us have been trying to point out. We are not fanboi's just mature enough to accept the consequences of our decisions.

Also if you all want to keep arguing this keep in mind that they can just turn the unlocker off from thier servers if they think discussions like this will lead to problems for them.

Lastly a number of things said about the MM law are flat out wrong. It does not force a manufacturer to issue a warranty just to follow it except under certain conditions. Do a google search on this

magnusun act can a manufacturer change a warranty if both parties agree.

And lets drop this thread it already comes up under google

Edit: this was not aimed solely at anyone in particular
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] PolishPoet:
All this boils down to is that there is no one from ASUS holding a gun to anyone's head. Their toy, their rules. They made the changes to the warranty you either agree to them or you pass and don't do it. And if you are really upset sell the Prime and get something else. They said from the get-go that this was the way it was going to play out. ASUS isn't revoking your warranty, you are. Sheesh!

Proud Owner of a Transformer Prime on Tapatalk
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Loglud:
I think its very important to recognize for those of you whom are worried about the warranty to look at square trade and grab one of their warranties . Skrew Asus on this one they ain't going to do anything in terms of unlocker privacy and or warranty. As for those whom are working their way on trying to unlock the device your best way is using a packet Sniffer and sniffing the response to phone. Most likely its a common encription algorithm if their not sending a encrypted signal the sha or other encryption can be broken.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Serjape:
Keep in mind that anyone can put anything in writing. And you can agree to it. But that does not make it binding or even legal. This kind of thing iz a breeze to challenge in court
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Serjape:
Doesn't matter. Asus still advertised something to work that doesn't regardless or unlocking

Problems were well documented prior. In addition, Asus kind of screwed themselves by being the ones to release the unlocking tool..
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] rand4ll:
You can get the 2 year ADH square trade warranty on Amazon for less than 70 bucks too. I have one but still haven't unlocked as I have no reason to yet. As soon as I do you can be sure I will be though!
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lolento:
Wow.....I am just amazed at the ignorance.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] distantneighbor:
Although I agree with people that say it should not void all the warranty, you can't tell me you do not enter into an agreement by clicking on an icon. People agree to contracts all the time on the internet without signatures all the time. It was made legal years ago. Here in the US, you do not always need a physical signatue

Look it up