yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Acer Iconia A500] WereCatf:
Personally I have zero interest in Thor's stuff and I find his behaviour to be petty, childish and, again, hypocritical -- "I use other devs' stuff but I don't want other people to use my stuff!" -- but I still think people should be allowed to discuss his stuff here. We do not lose anything as a community even if we allow people to discuss topics they find interesting, but we certainly do lose something if we start censoring discussions just on the basis of who they are about!

Just my 2 cents, here.
[Acer Iconia A500] Tapek-AU:
Hey I did say sorry if I was wrong! :P

Maybe one of the mods rubbed you the wrong way and you decided to be defiant? I don't actually disagree with any of your points, I just don't see the point in constantly questioning the mods or the rules when it won't get you anywhere?

Correct me if I missed something but it pretty much went

*Getting a thread closed due to mentioning Thor and people jumped in and started **** (as most mentions of him tend to do).

*Then instead of letting it go, posted a similar topic saying go to Thors site...he's working on stuff you want!

* Now after that thread failed you go ahead and call out the Moderators to what end? An apology?

It does seem the Moderators are more active in here now though, which can only be a good thing...if you are to blame in some way, thank you! lol

Update to reply to WereCatf instead of double posting: I agree 100% the mods deleting the threads is silly, they should only delete clear violations or flame wars. People will behave if the Mods stay as active as they have been the last couple of days and we can all discuss anything without starting **** storms and having threads deleted or people banned.
[Acer Iconia A500] Aaron Camp:
Great summation for the past 2 week "thor gate".

Honestly trying to understand the rules. I am a long time lurker/poster. I was actually around when thor was deving here. There is zero consistency so no one knows the rules. Tth thread that was deleted had over 500 views and was 2 pages long. I ddint see anything in it that was flamebate and I was very very careful to keep it 100% legit by all posted rules and previous mod comments. All of a sudden....poof. Add to that a complete lack of response via pm from the mod and it did leave a bad taste.

To be honest the whole thor issue comes down to opinion on who's right and who's wrong. It could go either way. He is clearly outside the bounds of xda though....no grey there, but from a personal level as to people stealing his hard work, I am behind him 100%.

Hell its been 2 days on this thread and no mod or "authority" has responded at all. In my book a poorly modded forum is worse than an unmodded one every time.
[Acer Iconia A500] WereCatf:
Mate, just let go. Don't expect a response from mods, they are likely busy, plus they likely have better things to do than to respond to threads like this. I mean, man, let go now and go do something useful. If they respond to this thread then good, if they don't you're just wasting your time at being unproductive.
[Acer Iconia A500] jliedeka:
I'm new to the community so I don't have an opinion about a certain hammer wielding developer. However, why the F*** do people want XDA to support his stuff when he has a whole site devoted to that?

Jim
[Acer Iconia A500] BrianDigital:
He has a forum use his forum to discuss how mods installed etc
[Acer Iconia A500] Aaron Camp:
Thats kinda the point of this and other threads. There are other Roms out there beyond XDA. XDA in almost all other cases has no problem discussing them, referencing them, and even helping troublshoot them. XDA is very clear on what a ROM must be to be hosted here. Thor can not be hosted. No one argues that. We (and yes there are many who agree with me) just want to be able to discuss Thor here without the rabid anti-Thor crowd running in and crapping threads. As someone above said its become clear that it is a vendetta against Thor for some. If it is great, admit it, come clean and post clearly to all that XDA will not allow discussion of Thor, or moderate those who are crapping threads and let the discussion continue.
[Acer Iconia A500] Moscow Desire:
One of the things about XDA, is that you can discuss general things regardless. And of people have issues with a rom, no matter who it comes from, then that falls under the apache license. Not GPL which has to do with the kernel itself. Something to that effect.

Discussing Thors rom, does not violate any license agreement, nor XDA policy. Direct links to Thors kernel, or rom or code containing such kernel, does.

This has been stated by Mod's time and time again. Some people, just don't get it, and use any mention of the name, as an excuse to "carry on the crusade", most of whom have not an inkling of what happened in the first place. They just react on what is recently known, and then again, only "hearsay".

So to discuss problem with an android rom, regardless of where it came from, is quite ok. But if the "crusaders" (on both ends) cause too much of a ruckus, which normally happens, the Mods will shut it down.

If people keep it civil, then things will be ok. Discuss the problems at hand, and ignore those who get their jollies trying to turn it into something else.
[Acer Iconia A500] erica_renee:
Not another Erica Post!!!!!!! Ohhh no!!!!

I Totally agree with Moscow..For me the biggest issue is . I see and post to all the threads Asking for Acer to release ICS. Then there are threads asking for GPL Compliant ICS. In those threads the flaming starts when people come in shouting there is ics and im running it now. Go to Here xxxxx to get it.. Its perfect its good the dev is above and beyond all..

The above is what has started this flaming war.. IF someone starts posting that he is so great so much above and better then everyone else. The flaming will start. As stated above i kinda agree that discussing issues solving basic android apps and issues on his rom is likely ok. But when People start putting xxxx as being better then everyone else is again when it will become a flaming thread. Unfortunately xda is a community for all.Everyone will give there opinion.Its a two sided story.I was using the above mentioned stuff until way back.I seen everything that went wrong.it would have took one Tiny Link to Source code solve this whole mess.

so keep this thread clean from the he has the right to not share and you MIGHT NOT GET FLAMED. IF you are lucky.. Whats right is Right.and there is a huge wrong happening.As i FLAME If you will ACER Everyday in email facebook twitter there automated help on there website. Over the boot loader . Will it help NO. But like equality for all in the US. sitting on your butt surely will fail..

Just my 3.well maybe 4 pennies..

Sorry if this is considered out of line for your Thread..

As far as cornerstone. I really do hope he gets its Working within his rom.As this is something that can be stripped out and Used in the Acer rom when pushed.Thou im not sure how will it will work with the acer ring as that also makes major changes to the same files as cornerstone.

Peacefully .. Me
[Acer Iconia A500] Aaron Camp:
And this is the issue I am bringing up! I miss read the policy. The thread where I posted the direct link to Thor was locked. That was fine. I created a new thread that did not LINK. It DISCUSSED. It was 100% within the posted and stated rules of XDA, but that thread was DELETED!!

As for what really happened, I too was around, and read all the same threads you read. The issue of hosting the ROM is very cut and dry, it is not XDA material. The issue of if Thors ROM is legal, warez, violation of GPL etc is NOT cut and dry and is very much in a grey area. You can argue all you want about the rights or wrongs (ok, maybe not on this board!! :) ) of how Thor was treated by XDA mods etc.

I just want to make sure people passing through know about another GREAT ROM for a great tablet, and would also like to see XDA get back to being a well moderated (even handed) forum that is open to all discussion on relevant topics.
[Acer Iconia A500] WereCatf:
Just pointing out that that is not true. It is in violation of GPL, that's that. It is a fact, not "grey area."
[Acer Iconia A500] Moscow Desire:
Well, you stretch the truth. To suit your needs.

Discussing of Thors rom breaks no rule. The "rom" itself does not fall under GPL, but under Apache. Only the specific kernel falls under GPL.

Now, if I flash RTripps kernel, using Thor's rom, are you to say I am violating GPL? No, and neither is RTripp or Thor.

GPL specifically states "Kernel".

So if a user, wants to ask questions, about a specific rom, well, nobody is violating any rules. Which is why the mods, have not intervened.

Of course if the cross comes to bear,,, well, that's just the way it is.
[Acer Iconia A500] WereCatf:
I never claimed that. Just look at the previous page where I said people should be allowed to discuss it.

As long as the kernel is distributed as part of it, then yes, it does. If he were to distribute them separately then what you claim would be true.

No, it doesn't. GPL applies to any GPL-licensed software.

Again, you're barking up the wrong tree there.
[Acer Iconia A500] daveid:
The real problem is the fact that any discussions on Thor or his works immediately brings about the heated arguments from both sides of the fence. There is just very little possibility that people here can carry on a discussion that is JUST about the ROM and issues/experiences using it. There are only a few ways it can be carried out here (and seriously correct me if you think I am wrong):

You start your nice thread to discuss issues with Thor's ICS ROM, you put in your OP that this is simply a discussion, no linking allowed, you can even put a disclaimer like "If anyone has an issue with this discussion, please bring to a MOD's attention instead of posting your opposition here". But...

1. someone feels it is their responsibility to post why they are against this. Or...

2. someone is going to post asking why we cannot provide a link, or where to find the ROM, or why isn't it in the development section... or...

3. someone is going to feel they need to retaliate when someone does one of the above.

Either way, one outcome, the argument will get heated, and the mods will be forced to step in and take action. If they feel there is no salvation for the thread, they will close or delete it. End of discussion.

So, really, the content of the discussion is not really the issue at hand, but how the discussions are generally (always?) carried out.
[Acer Iconia A500] FloatingFatMan:
^ This pretty much sums up why so many threads mentioning Thor end up locked or deleted. It's an emotive subject for many.
[Acer Iconia A500] erica_renee:
I so agree so many threads not related to his roms end up just the same Due to it being mentioned.

its sad but might be mute point now if this acer leak pans out. Crossing fingers but not Flashing .
[Acer Iconia A500] MJ-12:
Anyone here use Thor's recovery?

Nuff said...

MJ-12
[Acer Iconia A500] WereCatf:
You mean the GPL-compliant one?

Nuff said...
[Acer Iconia A500] erica_renee:
Giggles.. Pick me pick me.. please.:p
[Acer Iconia A500] MJ-12:
So it is OK to slag his work but use it anyway.

Hmm...
[Acer Iconia A500] WereCatf:
Why is it so hard to understand? I don't use his stuff that breaks GPL, that's that. Besides, I personally don't even use his recovery at all, so there's that.

---------- Post added at 10:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 PM ----------

Sorry, I am trying not to derail any more threads after people complained :/
[Acer Iconia A500] armada786:
Actually I use RA Recovery. ;)

As for discussing Thor here, I have no issue as long as it doesn't violate XDA's rules. I personally don't hate Thor and think he's pretty damn smart. But, he broke the rules of XDA and his site meets the criteria for sites that can't be linked here. All I can do is hope he releases his kernel source so we can see a return of his work here.

Also, sometimes I wonder if people treat "Thor" as a slur around here.
[Acer Iconia A500] FloatingFatMan:
No one IS slagging off his work.. People don't like his non-compliance with the GPL, that's it. Also, the first few versions of his CWM build were fully GPL compliant as he used the stock kernel. Why do you think the Acer Recovery Installer program only comes with an older version of CWM? That's why.
[Acer Iconia A500] Tapek-AU:
I use RA Recovery as well, it rocks! Also nobody ever says "Thor is bad, his work is ****" so that argument is stupid.
[Acer Iconia A500] Aaron Camp:
Actually they do. That is part of the issue. There are some who have posted in this very thread and admit they use thors gpl compliant work who have also posted in other threads saying that "Thor is evil. His work is warez." I find that just a tad hypocritical. If you want to vehemently oppose the utterances of his name, if you foam at the mouth and crap threads when he is mentioned, please at least man (or woman....giggles) up and remove all of his work from your machine.

Course I see others share my sentiments (thanks for putting it so succinctly MJ).

This thread has been very informative. Just reading this thread and the ics bounty thread clearly shows the underlying issues here. Thank you everyone for keeping this clean and having discussion (mostly) and not crapping the thread.
[Acer Iconia A500] erica_renee:
, please at least man (or woman....giggles) up and remove all of his work from your machine.

---------- Post added at 10:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 PM ----------

, please at least man (or woman....giggles) up and remove all of his work from your machine.

GIGGLES GIGGLES.

Nothing to remove.. and QUITE ME CORRECTLY. THOR IS A GREAT DEV. just does not play by the rules.
[Acer Iconia A500] Aaron Camp:
Oh Erica no one can "quite" you!!! :)

See we can all get along and have fun.......who's up for trust falls and a round of kum-ba-ya?

:)
[Acer Iconia A500] tkirton:
I remember a time when I was developing Darktremor Apps2SD, and a user named TrevE came out with a completely different version of Apps2SD that was based on earlier code of Darktremor. The problem was that Darktremor Apps2SD and TrevE's version was like night and day...two different versions. I do remember actually answering questions about TrevE's version even though I was developing a competing product, and TrevE would answer questions about Darktremor. The idea was that the entire community benefits by understanding what Apps2SD was about and how both versions worked. We didn't flame each other...we respected each other.

The point is that we are a community of Android and Windows Mobile (as well as some others) users. We benefit as a community even if the roms are not hosted on XDA.
[Acer Iconia A500] Skrilax_CZ:
The thing is that for instance Linux kernel is GPL licensed and therefore you MUST publish the source code with it, which Thor didn't. So he broke the licence => warez. Also not publishing source code to kernel related things is not only against GPL, it's also a signature of bad work.

Now XDA has to play by the rules, or they get problems with site provider. So does Thor's site, if someone reports that he will have to publish the sources (or get his site shut down), although it's small site, so nobody will really have a care.

Oh and don't get it wrong; just because the license is open, it doesn't mean you can just copy & paste someone's work and claim it as your own.
[Acer Iconia A500] smishra:
Nailed it!
[Acer Iconia A500] af974:
Let me say something,

you ARE allowed to speak about Thor's works at some conditions:

- Do not link to his site

- Do not post his works here

- Do not insult him and anyone else

if these conditions will be respected, thread will be open otherwise it will be closed as all the others.

Why i close them instead of clean up? Because i'm bored of people that don't understand a nut.

NOTE: i have deleted Protekk github link because it was the one from blazingwolf, and if you remember it was deleted because kanged Thor's commit.

NOTE 2: Any tentative of posting Thor's work will be deleted and i will take in consideration a short ban period, at least after this post.

NOTE 3: If Thor didn't realize his source code is not his fault but culprit are the so called developers that are so good to use copy & past and 7Zip.

XDA is full of that devs that don't know what is a PM or what mean " give credits", keep in mind that.
[Acer Iconia A500] erica_renee:
You are so true.. LOL.. I tend to speak my mind rather totally correct or not.My spouse gets so mad at me sometimes . Like out for dinner and they take over a hour to bring us our food.Our close friends says i should be a true Red head. NOT SURE What they mean..

I do still want ICS with onscren by cornerstone . so we have one thing in common.
[Acer Iconia A500] ProTekk:
Pretty pathetic. Anyways, it's not his IP (intellectual property) as it IS licensed under the GPL and Android Open Source Project (go read the licenses in all the headers for the MK files moderators). I feel I am OBLIGATED to post source as it BENEFITS the community instead of hindering it. Anyways, I won't post a direct link to it again but for those who want to check anything I do out, https://github.com/ProTekk/

Mods/XDA, if you disagree with this, please contact me via PM instead of going right to deleting my work. I feel that it is blatantly disrespectful to the community to silence free, open work.
[Acer Iconia A500] jcase:
I don't know the whole situation, but if its licensed under Apache or GPL, and the licensed is followed, how is it a kang? I thought a kang was a "blatant theft". Both of those licenses not only permit, but encourage re-use and redistributing (GPL requires it!) of the code.
[Acer Iconia A500] zimphishmonger:
I agree, this is ridiculous and disrespectful to protekk. I only hope Protekk continues his OPEN work on this project. Please take these convos in private instead of just "cleansing" the thread.

Despite the possibility that some of "Thors" work may have been "kanged" by blazingwolf, and then BY PERMISSION given to protekk, it doest cange the facts. The fact is this: It's not Thor's source, it's his EDITED source from AOSP . Just because he edits it DOES not mean he now owns the IP rights to it, meaning he has no right to withhold the code.

As was mentioned, the only reason he hasn't been shut down is his site is too small for most to care about. Doesnt change the fact he is violating GPL. That being said, Blazingwolf and Protekk have FOLLOWED all GPL guidelines regarding the source code, so their version (despite it possibly originating from Thors) is GPL compliant and CAN be posted on XDA and any other site that enforces such rules.

This situation is no different that the NUMEROUS "AOSP-based" builds that are nothing but CM with a few changes in build.prop, some theming , and a fancy name....

This is exactly my point. Even if they "borrowed" Thors code, they have followed the guidelines and should be allowed to post links to github and related resources.
[Acer Iconia A500] FloatingFatMan:
I agree. One cannot "kang" open source code if one is posting the source, as required by the GPL.
[Acer Iconia A500] SynisterWolf:
but but but.... xda doesnt like it when you prove them wrong. Believe me. i have taken many "bans" for pointing out the wrong doing. sigh. i bet this comment alone will get me one. just another notch on the head board for them.
[Acer Iconia A500] af974:
Well, in all honesty i do care about GPL, i have my kernel source up on github, if Thor refuse to post his kernel source on his site, this is only an his problem, what i care so much is to allow people to respect XDA rules and one of them is :

So basically, you cannot pass the previous kanged work to another user to post here, if "A user" work was put down because a copy of "B user" then "A user" cannot give that work to "C user" to post here. Guess this is clear.

Anyway, the github link previous posted will stay here for the moment, till when i will speak of this issue with the other Moderators team.
[Acer Iconia A500] ProTekk:
Won't end well, guarantee that. My history here with the XDA crew is dismal at best. Either way, this is foolish and the licenses should be upheld regardless. Are we going to have to get legal notarized papers from HTC and the like to work off of a Sense ROM? Let's get real here XDA. You're only shooting yourselves in the foot.
[Acer Iconia A500] FloatingFatMan:
If that were truly the case, then none of the old Windows Mobile devices would EVER have had custom roms, as they were never redistributable to begin with. Any and all mods & custom roms for those devices were intrinsically illegal, but that never seemed to bother XDA. I know, I've been here since the early days.

GPL is GPL; no developer has the right to withhold sourcecode for their changes, IF they make their changes public, end of story. Sure, giving credit is the right and decent thing to do (and was done in this case), but once they distribute their app, they MUST make their source available. Blocking developers from doing this means XDA are actively preventing them from complying with the GPL.
[Acer Iconia A500] zimphishmonger:
That is fine, but Thor is NOT a member at XDA (He's been banned because of his practices), and as such, no one is breaking any rules by sharing "his" work, as the rule states NOTHING regarding posting software from other forums\sites, just XDA. Whats insulting is you are preventing other users from correcting the "black hole" created by Thor's GPL violations by saying that because Thor MAY have touched the source, that it's somehow "infected" and can no longer be posted on XDA in any form.

Although you feel you are enforcing XDA's rules and GPL licenses, you are in fact doing nothing but preventing proper source and documentation from being provided for this device and ICS.

Ban or remove whatever posts, links, members you feel , but as Protekk said, you are doing nothing but shooting XDA, and more importantly, the android community in the foot and encourages people like Thor to continue violating source by preventing any alternative build\ROM to be developed besides the stock Acer builds.

EDIT: Apparently his account has been un-banned. Maybe we can see some collaboration instead of this childish game of keep-a-way (crosses fingers)
[Acer Iconia A500] af974:
I'm not encouraging anyone to violate GPL, we were not speaking of Thor's kernel but ICS github and it is covered by APACHE not GPL.

Since, as you said, Thor's works are not posted on XDA anymore, if you feel, you can report his work here.

On that note, the ICS github link can stay here, even if it is from Thor, it is an old relise and since it wasn't make in a private github but pubblic, there is no proves that it comes from him, a simple source over github can be allow you to find it.

End of the story, now have fun with ICS on A500 but don't mention again crap like Thor's kernel, source or whatelse here, as said his kernel is no more here and WE CANNOT action on things outside XDA forum.

Best regards.
[Acer Iconia A500] af974:
Sorry i had to delete the last 4 replies because they should be a cause of flame war and, as i said, i won't close this thread, as far as it will stay in a civil speak.