yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
It's all about the GPU. Especially with HD screens coming out.

"As device screen resolution goes up, achieving a 60fps UI is closely related to GPU speed and especially the GPU’s memory bus bandwidth. In fact, if you want to get an idea of the performance of a piece of hardware, always pay close attention to the memory bus bandwidth. There are plenty of times where the CPU (especially with those wonderful NEON instructions) can go a lot faster than the memory bus." - Dianne Hackborn

All the new A15 chips have 5x the memory bandwidth of A9's. Teg3 is double Teg2 and a lot of the gains are done s/w optimization not h/w improvements.

"Tegra 3 supports higher frequency memories than Tegra 2 did, but the memory controller itself is mostly unchanged from the previous design. While Tegra 2 supported LPDDR2 at data rates of up to 600MHz, Tegra 3 increases that to LPDDR2-1066 and DDR3-L is supported at data rates of up to 1500MHz. The memory interface is still only 32-bits wide, resulting in far less theoretical bandwidth than Apple's A5, Samsung's Exynos 4210, TI's OMAP 4, or Qualcomm's upcoming MSM8960. This is particularly concerning given the increase in core count as well as GPU execution resources. NVIDIA doesn't expect memory bandwidth to be a limitation, but I can't see how that wouldn't be the case in 3D games. Perhaps it's a good thing that Infinity Blade doesn't yet exist for Android." - Anand

Having a car capable of going 200MPH does you know good if it has S-rated tires capable of 112MPH.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] hairdewx:
That's just playing the specs game again...

NVidia is probably right, though. In the real-world scenario, outside of a few fringe programs and demos, the Tegra 3 memory bandwidth probably won't be a limitation until well after its successors are out.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Magnesus:
It will definitely have GPS. Google doesn't allow Android Market on devices without GPS.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Urban myth...

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=21079549&postcount=125
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
Qualcomms greatest supporter, HTC, went with the Tegra 3 for its "flagship" phone for 2012, the HTC Edge/Endeavour/One X over the "Krait". That says a lot to me right there. :p
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
HTC warns first quarter revenue could be down 36 per cent

By Kate O'Flaherty, Mon Feb 06 2012, 13:51

TAIWANESE PHONE MAKER HTC has warned that its revenue could fall as much as 36 per cent in the first quarter, signaling that its struggles are far from over.

According to Reuters, HTC said on Monday that it foresees a drop in revenue of as much as 36 percent in the first quarter to between NT$65bn and NT$70bn ($2.20bn to $2.37bn), from NT$101.42bn in the three months previously.

However, the firm said the problems will be "short term" as it prepares to launch new models.

HTC is expected to launch four smartphones at Mobile World Congress at the end of this month, including a quad-core model and and ultra thin device called the HTC Ville.

The company's position is a far cry from early last year, when its popularity was surging.

Last month, HTC said it will focus on delivering a few 'hero' devices in a bid to claw back market share after a poor financial performance last year.

HTC UK executive director Phil Roberson said the company will focus on releases of high-end devices in the second quarter. He also said that the firm is pulling back in the tablet market, although not pulling out completely.

Earlier this month, we reported that HTC had announced its first ever decline in profits of nearly 26 per cent in the fourth quarter of 2011.

The firm released disappointing figures for the last quarter of 2011, with net income after tax of New Taiwan (NT) $11.02m. For comparison, in the same quarter in 2010 it recorded net income of NT$14.8m, a drop of 25.5 per cent.

November was a particularly poor month for the company, which saw year-on-year revenue fall 19.6 per cent. µ
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
What does this have to do with it? Phone is not even out yet. More of it will be shown at MWC.

Ill put this out there also. HTC does have another phone that's supposed to have S4 chip in it. But is getting no where near the press n hype of the tegra3 powered flagship phone. The other one is like a flagship one also but more like the bastard child nobody cares for..lol.

Plus HTC rumored One XL tablet will be powered by tegra3. TEGRA3 about to bust out everywhere. Watch out now ;) people are ecstatic over hearing about a quad core phone from HTC.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] rand4ll:
There is no reason to tout the Tegra 3 over s4 since it isn't available yet. Supposedly it also supports 1.7GHZ which will make those numbers still better than Tegra 3 at 1.6 which is highest supported clock.

Nothing wrong with supporting your choice of chips but to look numbers in the face and say differently is an odd behavior.

It will be interesting as always to see what advancements are made in the ARM arena. Even more interesting will be if they ever become desktop cpu over x86 architecture which of course would be years down the road bit interesting none the less. And with Apple going towards combining iOS and osx it may come sooner in their world.

I love how rapidly technology changes, always makes things exciting in my chosen profession.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
Highest supported clock on a stock kernel ;) don't be surprised once we hit 1.8-2Ghz+ on Tegra3 :cool:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] sontin:
Krait has no better performance per clock than any A9 Chip with NEON. It will lose badly to Tegra 3 when applications can use more than two cores. Look at these Antutu Benchmarks:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2400409,00.asp

And this site used the Balance Mode. Performance/Normal is 8-16% faster.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
Thanks for this info. Ran out of thanks. More ammo for the tegra3 camp. Seems like Tegra3 ahead of the pack even in balanced mode. Just think if they would've tested in performance mode or with the 1.6Ghz overclock we have.

KRAIT is good but just not better than Tegra3. Now that we have unlock tool, Prime benchmark scores about to go Astronomical..lol Sky the limit now!

Thanks again...I love when stuff like this pops up ;)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Magnesus:
Apparently it was changed in Android 4.0 requirements (probably because TVs). I doubt Google will allow tablets or phones without it though. In 2.1 requirements GPS was a "MUST".
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
This was also said in that article:

" Of course, the competition isn't standing still. Nvidia's Tegra 3 will appear in a bunch of phones at Mobile World Congress. TI keeps threatening to bring out its OMAP5, which is much more similar to the Qualcomm S4 than the existing OMAP4 is. Also at Mobile World Congress, we'll probably see a tablet based on the Samsung Exynos 5250, which could top all of these chips in power. Our sister publication ExtremeTech has a quick rundown of the similarities and differences between these various chips.

There are other battlefields, too. Nvidia has done a great job of getting game developers to write first-class games tuned to its chips' graphics abilities. TI has been doing a lot of work with gesture-based interfaces like the Kinect, and the company has a great reputation for photo and image processing. And Nvidia, TI, and Qualcomm will all provide chips for Windows 8 tablets.

The S4's big mystery is battery life. Qualcomm says this MDM isn't tuned for the best possible power management, so I didn't test battery life. Nvidia says that its five-core system is more power-efficient than Qualcomm's two cores, because Tegra 3 can turn its cores on and off at will, including using a super-low-power core when needed."

Tegra3 will be the star of MWC. Bring on the competition! In other news, Samsung is expected to have a very quiet booth @ MWC lol. NVIDIA and Asus booth will be swarmed ;)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Cool chart. Let's look at some more...

And...

"Sounds awesome, huh? There's a catch. It's possible to program software to work better on one kind of chip than another. The MDM's scores on the overall Antutu benchmark were disappointing. Integer and floating-point results were much lower than the Tegra 3, although they were higher than the TI OMAP4. 2D and 3D scores were a wee bit better than competitors, although not by much.

Qualcomm says that's because Antutu's tests scale linearly with the number of cores - in other words, it's using multiple cores too well, from Qualcomm's perspective. That means a quad-core processor has a huge advantage over a dual-core processor, even a very fast one, on that specific test."

But, it's not perfect...

"If the Snapdragon S4 has a weak spot, it’s likely to be the chip’s GPU. Qualcomm has talked up the SoC’s improved graphics performance, but the Adreno 225 is based on the same core as the earlier Adreno 220. That chip never managed to compete very effectively, despite fielding competitive specs on paper. Improved memory bandwidth, a higher clock speed (400MHz compared to 266 for Adreno 220) and driver optimizations should keep the Adreno 225 competitive, if not extraordinary."

---------- Post added at 07:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 AM ----------

It was changed in 2.3.3.

http://static.googleusercontent.com...en/us/compatibility/2.3/android-2.3.3-cdd.pdf

7.3.3. GPS

Device implementations SHOULD include a GPS receiver. If a device implementation does include a GPS receiver, it SHOULD include some form of "assisted GPS" technique to minimize GPS lock-on time.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] sontin:
That Krait is faster with 1,5GHz vs. Tegra 3 with 1200MHz should not be a surprise. The perClockPerformance is on par or a little bit better than A9. And this is a negative surprise. Everyone expected more because of the hype.

I get 130.000 Browsermark points with 1600MHz. Krait has a slower GPU, less CPU performance and the same power consumption. Don't see why anybody would use this SoC over Tegra 3 when they need no modem.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
Agreed. Those other charts were nice but were debunked by the article itself in overall scores. Leading to the more important chart you originally posted. AS OTA overall scores in the various categories were actually disappointing. PRIME clearly was alot more powerful overall.

Plus he only tested prime in balanced mode. Performance mode would have better benchmarking scores. A 1.6Ghz overclocked prime would've been overkill in comparison..lol
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] dpwhitty11:
I'm going to assume that they're using the new Snapdragon... It is anywhere between 20% and 240% better than, well, everything.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/21/qualcomm-krait-s4-soc-fully-benchmarked/

*EDIT*

Didn't read the rest of the thread past your post, looks like others beat me to it already :P
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
That wasn't confirmed. Article even states that it probably was just a chip to use for testing purposes. You already have several videos of Asus reps showing off TF-700 at CES and more saying it will have a tegra3 in it.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
In one thread, you'll argue using benchmarks that Teg3 blows everything away. In another thread, when the charts don't tell the story you want them to, you'll either omit them or suddenly say "they were debunked." So either benchmarks are a meaningful comparison or they're not. You can't play both sides of the fence. Out of five benchmarks, Teg3 only surpassed MDM in one. Why is that the only one that's important? All it demonstrates is that s/w optimized for quad-core will perform better. How many programs were optimized for Teg2's additional instruction sets? It was mostly games which, I totally agree, if that's your primary use of a tablet than Teg3's probably a better choice than MDM (assuming the games you want to play are optimized). But, you'll take a hit on everything else (according to the benchmarks). And keep in mind that with Nvidia's lowered projections for Teg3 there will be fewer in the market in 2012 than there were Teg2's in 2011. And MWC won't change that, Nvidia's already factored that in. When a public company provides guidance and they are way off (positive or negative) it tells analysts they have no clue what their revenue streams are and "surprises" of any kind are looked down upon. We don't know what's being announced at MWC but Nvidia does and probably has for months.

And you left this out too.

"One of the MSM8960′s other advantages is its built-in modem which, according to the company, supports all of the 2G, 3G, and 4G broadband technologies in a single chip. Current 4G-capable phones draw much more power in that mode than when using 3G; an efficient LTE modem could sell handset manufacturers on the MSM8960 all on its own."

Qualcomm is the go-to chip when manufacturers (even Samsung) need a SoC with integrated wireless. That's why it's being used in Asus' own PadPhone. And, I know, Nvidia's working on something similar. They also have a road map out until the 22nd century. The MDM's in a pre-release state and the Exynos 5250 is in sampling with both expected out in Q2. For now, those two SoC's and Teg3 are the only valid comparisons.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
the article said it itself. the overall was what really mattered in the end. plus there will be more than 5 different tablets w/tegra3 and somebphones also. tegra3 is still top dog. with unlock tool n Cm9 out for Prime, we have a great headstart. so nvidia can easily change projections again once ball starts rolling.

So u can't deny even what article said. overall chart showed tegra3 blowing it away in several categories. plus it was done on balanced mode. LOL if prime was in performance mode, nvm..lol

You already know ;)

Like I said, Nvidia, Asus, and Tegra3 will be most talked about of Mwc.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Did you read the link to their sister publication's review of all four manufacturer's upcoming SoCs that was referenced in the article you're quoting from? They seem to disagree with you.

"Of the four companies we’ve discussed, Nvidia’s footing is the least certain. Tegra 3 is a good tablet solution, but NV may have trouble selling it into smartphones if Qualcomm’s Snapdragon delivers as promised. Less-than-ideal multi-core scaling could easily lead to scenarios where the S4′s dual-core outperforms Tegra’s quad, while the NV part’s power consumption is hampered by an older process technology."

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...qualcomm-samsung-and-ti-prepare-for-arm-war/2

I'm not trying to put any manufacturer down, but your lack of objectivity and selective use of stats doesn't tell the complete story.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] sontin:
I read only this:

Krait has not delivered. Anandtech.com wrote, that every CPU of Snapdragon can go up to 0,750W. Which is rather high for a 28nm chip.

nVidia said that Tegra3@1000MHz consumes 1W when all 4 cores at 100% load. Not only would Tegra 3 25% faster than Krait it would use 33% less power.

I think we can put Qualcomm out of the race.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
I read that also. its all still up in the air. "could" n "should" and "if" is not what always happens in reality. time will tell. I like to base off real world/real time results. Not projections or fortune telling ;)

Its all good though.

---------- Post added at 01:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:25 PM ----------

wow.. take that Barry..lmfao

Qualcomm gone..Samsung next on hit list! We taking no prisoners
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Huh?

"Final Words (2/21/12)

It goes without saying that MSM8960 is a hugely important SoC release for Qualcomm. It's the first release with Qualcomm's new Krait CPU architecture, an entirely new cellular baseband with support for nearly every air interface, and is manufactured on TSMC's 28nm process. It says something that we're able to hold 28nm TSMC silicon in our hands in the form of the MDP, and it's only a matter of time before we start seeing Krait show up in devices in 2012.

We've gone over basically all of the benchmarks available to us on Android right now, and yet subjective performance impressions are still valuable. The MDP8960 is the absolute fastest we've seen Ice Cream Sandwich thus far - the UI is absolutely butter smooth everywhere, and web browsing in either Chrome or the stock Android Browser is also the smoothest we've seen it. There's no stutter bringing up the application switcher, or taking screenshots, two places that 4.0.3 still drops frames on the Galaxy Nexus.

Krait offers another generational leap in mobile SoC performance. The range of impact depends entirely on the workload but it's safe to say that it's noticeable. The GPU side of the equation has been improved tremendously as well, although that's mostly a function of 28nm enabling a very high clock speed for Qualcomm's Adreno 225. We are eager to see what the Adreno 3xx GPUs that will pair up with future Krait SoCs can do.

The big unknowns today are power consumption and the performance of shipping devices. While we were able to provide power numbers using Qualcomm's handy Trepn tool, we couldn't produce a reference point on older silicon. The move to 28nm and a second generation of cellular basebands has generally been heralded as being the answer to our battery life issues, particularly with LTE. It remains to be seen just how much of an improvement we'll see there. Knowing how much power MSM8960's cellular architecture uses is especially relevant when you consider that MDM9615 includes the exact same modem as MSM8960.

These initial results look extremely promising, however. Krait based devices should begin shipping sometime next quarter, the wait is almost over."

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5559/...ormance-preview-msm8960-adreno-225-benchmarks
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
Barry, this screenshot I'm posting here contradicts all you said about Nvidia not doing well. They are actually doing very well. SMH. This is the real deal on what's going on with Nvidia financially. If I wouldn't of found this I might've stuck with believing what you said..lol nice try buddy ;)

http://www.slashgear.com/nvidia-q4-...2-results-show-growth-great-outlook-15213692/
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
I've been talking about the financial performance and prospects of their mobile products which, revenue wise, they lump in to "consumer products." I personally have no interest in any other aspect of their business (or AMD’s for that matter). I'm guessing they're diversified enough to be successful with or without mobile and their aggregate financials probably reflect that. The cut in revenue from their reforecast of Teg3 sales was in the millions and their revenue is in the billions so poor mobile performance shouldn’t tank their overall numbers.

Rather than debate with me, you can just download their 10K from their website if you want to see in detail how their revenue and profit are derived. I haven’t read theirs but all 10Ks include a risk section which will send shivers down your spine. ;)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] kunddizzle:
This is not a S4, but still..

Dual core A15 @ 800mhz vs most likely Tegra 3.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/23/...9s/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
I had really good comeback to this. But the damn browser locked up n froze n I had to reset prime..lol. so i lost what i wrote. this happens only randomly while using stock or ICS+ browser. Maybe cuz what I wrote was so good..lol

Basically they comparing some future chip that won't see the light of day till 2013(confirmed by article itself) to an unnamed and unconfirmed quad core. If it is tegra3, OK no big deal. Why don't they compare future chip to future chip then. Lets se them pit this against Tegra4/Wayne chipset n see the results. I'm sure it'll be alot different..lol. Nvidia has always been at least 6 months or more ahead of everyone in technological advances of mobile computing chips. So for them to compare some chip that won't be out for over a year compared to tegra3 now is pointless. We live in the now. Instead of pointless comparisons, they should be more worried about real world results of their current chipsets. Which arent that promising. Yes, TI has been in this game a long time. But they have been falling off very fast since arrival of Samsung, Nvidia, n others. TI is like an ancient dinosaur who was very powerful in its day. Now we have new fresh minds making more powerful and efficient chips than them. EVOLUTION

I think TI needs to stick to making calculators...lol they are losing footing in the mobile chips fastnesses. Most of latest offerings have been at or near the bottom when it comes to power, efficiency, battery life, and benchmarks. Its like they on their deathbed n desperately trying all they can to stay alive. Which is only natural.

To Barry: I know you just heard about the Major Class Action Lawsuit Samsung just lost for making defective products. MAJOR MILLIONS OF DOLLARS LOST. Big flat screen, Plasma t.v., and more. Plus this is a product that's way more expensive than prime so the outrage was alot higher. Just goes to show that no company is perfect and all make mistakes. Even the best like Samsung and Apple can and have recently just shown to have MAJOR Quality control issues also. Remember this when trying to bash Asus or Prime. Lol Bash your own company or tablet company first before talking about others....lmfao. don't make me post the article n details on it ;) GOTCHA! :p
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
I really think you're losing your mind. The MAJOR issue with the Samsung sets in question was a capacitor built by a third party that they used in TVs they produced. Does that sound anything like what's happening with the Prime which is clearly a design issue? And any manufacturer that produces products that are defective and doesn't voluntarily step-up and address the issues should be sued. I don't care if it's Samsung or anyone else. And they're not "my own company." All my TVs are Toshiba, I have Sony Google TV players, Yamaha and Denon receivers, and so on. Some work better than others and some I'd buy again and others I wouldn't. After my G2X experience the only manufacturer I've blacklisted is LG. And Asus isn't a bad company; they just made a bad product. I'd consider their future products but I'd never be the first to own one after watching the Prime's launch. Unlike you, I'm not emotionally attached to my toys and don't feel the need to passionately defend them at every turn.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] hairdewx:
I am finding this thread quite amusing :) It's almost as if some people take this personally.

I don't think there should be any doubt how the upcoming S4 will be compared to the current Tegra 3. It's running on newer technology. That's just how the technology game works.

HTC touting it's Tegra 3 phone over it's S4 phone? Means nothing. A lot of things business related happen in the background. Apple is known to lock down guaranteed chip supplies before they release a product, so Qualcomm most likely cannot supply enough chips to other vendors at the moment, while NVIDIA can.

Take this how you want, my money is on Qualcomm, literally (stock) ;) I wouldn't go close to nvidia stock. I love my Tegra 3 tablet, and think it's great! I'm very satisfied with it and the performance. But hey, I make my decisions through logic and careful consideration, not emotions and fanboyism :p