yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] PREMOLIKES:
more about it

xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1493284

---------- Post added at 03:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:42 AM ----------

xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1493284

Mystry..odin won't flash in single package.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
no odin can flash a single file. Sakindia build a kernel for sgy this kernel in .tar format. This kernel flashed with odin but nothing change in kernel.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] PREMOLIKES:
more about odin

This is it,it says it can split single file into multiple odin packages

xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=943588,

This one is just redundant

xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1399356

---------- Post added at 04:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:07 AM ----------

Gokhale baowu! kai manta,Kai jale?

---------- Post added at 04:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:14 AM ----------

Termagazis wants to flash kernel with odin .Right? He has problems in making .tar?

Kernel from sakindia failed with odin.So which kernel does termagazis wanna flash.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] termagazis:
f@@k!!!everything failes!!!what the f@@@ing phone!i am very disapointed of this phone for reall!!!we cant even do those simple and silly things for every device.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] draiyan:
how about we ask help from devs of other phones? maybe they can help??
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] termagazis:
if they dont own this phone i think it would be difficult but its a good idea.

by the way i tried to compile a kernel from source but i did nothing.i dont know how to do it or how sourcery works.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] blackjack1942:
Ask the sg mini devs to help us about this problem
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] xsousax:
this can help them

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1415661
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] neil05:
I think we need a really good kernel first so that we can port cm7 in our device.if we contact some developers it would be waste of time because they dont have the device. Dnt port cm7 coming from Galaxy mini and ace it is different from galaxy y it will cause brickd phone. Thanks.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] PREMOLIKES:
Have you guys tried on older builds like kk1, there was some people who complained that new builds have problems in rooting .
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] PREMOLIKES:
Hey.what's your status.Have you flash with odin.?
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] famous84:
from what i did, i root DXKI7 until what i use currently which is DXLB1 with the same update.zip, same method, same result.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] termagazis:
no i dont know how to use the program to compile!:D:D:D:D
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] PREMOLIKES:
@termagazis

Hey have you tried this tool

xdaforums.com/

showthread.php?t=943588

Plz see that.So tell me what exactly you wanna do.Also sakindia made many kernels, which one you think is good?
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] blackjack1942:
Hope someone can create custom kernel for SGY
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] termagazis:
sakindia's kernel didnt flash or didnt work
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] sasan258:
maybe @cips cm7 needs a little change..
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
way found to work

i found a way to full work cm7 on sgy. 2morro i'm caming to home then i will start work. And this cm7 only can flash on stock rom. If you flash cm7 on custom rom then your sgy will dead like my. My sgy is now dead i flashd test cm7 on custom rom.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] mushfiq20:
that is not at all a problem as long as it works.... i really really hope that this time it actually works... :D

---------- Post added at 11:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 PM ----------

btw... u haven't still been able to recover your phone from bricking?? :O
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] daadeguzman:
goodluck bro :) hope to eat that cm7 soon.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] cosminx13:
he quit :(
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] z3ro00:
yeah he said that but he continue to work bec. his uncle is helping
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] sasan258:
we're looking forward to your cm7..

Hope it would work this time
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] PREMOLIKES:
The rom packer tool says cache.rfs is missing from his kernel.Any idea to get it.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] ankit024:
romfory.blogspot.com

when will u start cip.....??

regards,

admin

romfory.blogspot.com
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] pramudit:
exams time otherwise would have helped you.... :(

btw isnt the chipset of gio and y different?? you will need many sources to get things working...
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] angel_boulevard:
pratyush creed can porting cm7.2 surely but he need donate him:o
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] draiyan:
tang ina!!

he played with us!! what a loser. he is a dumbass. he want to be praised for being an actor..

i pity this kind of people who wants fame but too dumb to earn it and very desperate that he fools people.

if you check his signiture his so called projects no one is replying to it.

a million thanks to our mod.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] neil05:
Yup no one reply to his so called project!he alaways thankd himself!lol! He fooled only himself!

Y there such a man like him in this world?!WTF!
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] bumslayer:
I hope that his bricked SGY remains bricked :(
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] draiyan:
actually im starting to think that he don't even own one. maybe his screen shots are just picked somewhere. really he is a total fake from head to toe. he may be not a human?!!! hahaha

sorry for this. just cant help it. :D
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] blackjack1942:
<Nothing here>
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] shizuo:
WTH?

so no cm for y?
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] PG101:
Hi Guys,

The OP seems to have left the course of further development, and now this thread is turning into an off topic/flaming/bickering and ETA thread.

Best is to keep it closed till the OP returns..

Thanks.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] neil05:
Iam totally agree with you sir. If he can do it as said he can port a rom in just 6 hrs just port it.just proved us that they are wrong.you said that youre not just a developer so why you stopped the project bcoz someone said youre a fake developer?or you found out that cm7 is not easy port??i hope im wrong.every member in this community have faith in you.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] angel_boulevard:
i don't think cm7 can porting in 6h.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] neil05:
Yes cm7 cnt port in just 6hrs. Take a look wat he just said in here. And see wat iam talking about.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=22523420
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] BeingAbhi:
Hey guys so overall is this project stopped ? Or it may continue....i have been waiting for this port from the time i brought this mobile..dude please port it..bcoz of one person how can you stop this port.what about others.thanx in advance....
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] neil05:
I think he will continue his project. We just give him more time.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] draiyan:
yeah, i even fall for it without thinking the logic. if it does can be ported in 6 hours then why do the original team of devlopers that made CM dont do it. its just ~6hours, it wont take much time, even how busy they are if they knew it was just 6 hours to do it, we had already CM few weeks ago, if thatw as the case. but still if he can prove my/our thoughs wrong then good. im just thinking rational. no.offense meant just a mere hindsight.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] musashihatred:
As far as im concerned

THIS THREAD IS OPEN FOR DISCUSSING THE UP_COMING PORTS, CM7 & ICS.

THIS THREAD IS NOT USED FOR DISCRIMINATIONS, INSIGHTS, OR ANY COMPLAINTS. IT's MERELY OPEN FOR US TO HELP DEVs AND LEARN FROM THEM.

PLEASE BEAR WITH THE THREAD.

NO COMPLAINTS/ MISJUDGEMENTS. LEAVE THE DEVs. THEY ARE BUSY TOO.

or

MAYBE WE COULD JUST STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS THREAD...

thanks.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] PG101:
Moderator Message

I was going to close this thread reading all the crap that has gone thru, but I agree with musashihatred... lets try to be civilised. Have removed all the crappy posts.

Thanks.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] rohit589769:
BRO...SEE THAT POST AGAIN.....he said that he will start porting from MIDNIGHT....and 6 hours remained according to INDIAN TIME
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
cm7 porejct

i'm restarted cm7 port. now i feel better. but now cm7 port take days or weaks.:)ok
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
who said you that cm7 can be ported in 6 hours. first cm7 can't ported in 6 hours.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
cm7 port

this post for some people who think i'm a layer. i created a cm rom for p350 and rom Features is.

USB Duo feature[(you can mount your sd and use usb debugging at the same time)

Debugging over Network(you can use debugging mode over your WiFi or even your data connection.)

APP2SD - Can move any app to sd card

Custom framework-res.apk

Bootanimation: Android Bios boot

ICS animations/transitions/rotate animation

Zipaligned

Optimized

VM Heap size: 32m

Hardware acceleration ON

JIT ON

data/app enabled so you can update/uninstall some systemapps

Ubuntu FONT for overall interface

Clockopia font replaced by stock ICS clock font

Default launcher is: Nemus Launcher

Custom apks

cm7 Bloatware removed

custom sliding tab lockscreen(based on Motorola Droid RAZR lockscreen)

Custom ring lockscreen(based on ICS lockscreen)

CMWallpapers.apk modified with replacing CM wallpaper with ICS wallpaper

Xloud Engine (for high quality audio effect)

BRAVIA mobile Engine

superfast

smoother

this Features added by me. now you tell me i'm a layer.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] angel_boulevard:
ok.continue your work.waiting u....
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] mushfiq20:
he didn't mean that he will finish porting within 6hours. he said that he will start trying to port it after 6 hours from that time...

---------- Post added at 10:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 AM ----------

thankss..... and just take your time... :cool:
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] neil05:
Pls read this OP thanks

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=22383860
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
cm7 port

guys cm7 booted. But always getting android system force close. I will upload pic soon.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] musashihatred:
buddy :D we owe you so much :D im already up to my limit for 8 thanks/day and i all went to you :)

btw :D is ADW the default launcher for the CM you're porting ?:D
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] angel_boulevard:
should using ADW launcher default.very nice.post pic soon
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] mushfiq20:
yohooo..... gud going buddy... hope you'll get that bug fixed very soon... :)
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] evanlocked:
Still waiting for this....good luck sir :D
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] vEget7:
keep it up bro.. gudluck.. take ur tym.. we r waiting.. ^_^
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
cm7 port

nothing work. only boot i'm trying to fix this but he take time to fix. i will try 2morro:)
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] rohit589769:
awesome.........sir....GOOD LUCK for the remaining project we are waiting eagerly for the final CM
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] evanlocked:
Thats nice sir good woks
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] ankit024:
romfory.blogspot.com

gud work buddy and thanks for the reply...

one thing more will it be completed till midnight of i should update this only in blog....??
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
don't post on your blog until i find solution for system force close.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
this problem not fix by midnight. because this is big and main problem in cm7 port.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
cm7 port

now i ask my uncle to fix this problem. my uncle is win phone 7 dev and android dev.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] ankit024:
romfory.blogspot.com

sure buddy, i will not post it on my blog till the project is complete.

gud luck...:D
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
thanks. i think uncle can tell me 2morro how to fix this.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] PecanCM:
very very sorry

sorry mr.gokhle you are not fake dev. you are very good dev. sorry sir:)
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] musashihatred:
Dude nx time pls be gentle and humble :)

-- musashihatred@xda-app
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] evanlocked:
Really an apologize
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] #Henkate:
cips gokhle when you finish cm i press thanks in every day;)i love cm:D
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] pratyush.creed:
did u compile a kerel for CM?
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] devulaxe:
real good skill, praty you can help him ? and maybe can teach me some dev skills
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] PG101:
Lets stay on topic guys!! Too much bickering in this thread..
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
i want to say sorry for my bad language. sorry to all
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] murtz3841:
Awesome man.. !! keep up the good work !! If CM7 is done than we might get CM9 too ! :)
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
cm7 port

guys, my uncle now trying to fix system force close problem. :)
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] angel_boulevard:
that so good.i watch your post daily..exiting:)
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] rohit589769:
BEST LUCK TO YOUR UNCLE and YOU............waiting for the first CM for our phone...THANKS MR.Gokhle
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] daadeguzman:
Goodluck guys :) Donate button for your effort. Soon! ♥
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
cm7 closed

guys very bad news for all. My uncle say we need custom kernel to run cm7 on galaxy y. Without custom kernel cm7 won't run. Stock kernel was not suport. So we need to make a custom kernel first to run cm7. I can't make karnel. Anyone have who make good working custom kernel for sgy. When we have custom kernel then i will restart this port. Now this port is closed. Thanks.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] vEget7:
that's a bad new guys.. :C
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] angel_boulevard:
sad..i know to run cm7 need custom kernel..can u compile a custom kernel fo SGY with your uncle helping?

you may need this post:http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1444819
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
sorry but i can't compile kernel right now. Because my finel exam was start form march. But i compile kernel in april. Not now. But why sgy devs was not compile kernel?
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] angel_boulevard:
i don't know seem sub-forum has'nt really ace devs.hixxxx
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] mushfiq20:
thats bad.. :(
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] musashihatred:
Aw. Just what i foresaw :( its bad. Guess a kernel would be good

-- musashihatred@xda-app
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] draiyan:
isnt it mr pratty is trying to make the kernel? then if he makes it we could probably use it.

Sent from my Nokia 3310 running ICS
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] bumslayer:
Thank you very much for trying, anyways.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] adnanahmad1786:
cm7

hey iam trying cm 7 on galaxy y but it was it was so probleme many aaps are not working force to close. then editing cm7 and removing many aaps of cm 7 i can able to enter into it........... system ui not working yet and notification bar and music and many other aaps are not working see in photo
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] mushfiq20:
gud to see u r trying it as well... gud luck... :D
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] jayem123:
Wow, :eek: how did you managed to run and boot into cyanogen rom sir? OP wasn't successful at running and booting it coz the system force closes in his port.

Did you port it too to run it in your SGY? maybe OP can help in apps having the force close issues. Please share it to us how did you do it, maybe we can help in solving force close issues of apps, what most important is, that cyanogen is now actually running on our device. Hope you could share your's so that OP can easily port this for us all. thanks sir :D
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
good job man. can you fix this?:)
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
can you upload your rom? maybe devs can fix this. thanks
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] musashihatred:
Yap since the android system booted. :)

-- musashihatred@xda-app
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] reineskye25:
wow! good job sir. only apps force closes are the problem. please upload your port or share it with other devs to let them help you in porting cm7. many devs are willing to help and it will be a lot faster if many devs are working together in porting cm7 :)
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] mushfiq20:
upload it...and try to solve the problems unitedly with other devs.... :)
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] soraci:
why can't we just thank that somebody is doing the work for our convenience? :) i'm really looking forward into this... would love to be a tester..
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] termagazis:
for which device CM7 are you tried and what kernel?
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
sir plz tell me witch kernel you use:)
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
sir can you upload your rom. if you upload then it easy to fix bugs. and we get cm7 soon:)
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] evanlocked:
Really nice work i think this project can be done always keep in spirit DEV
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] PecanCM:
keep in spirit dev mean what? Are you saying cips gokhle is not spirit dev. He gives hope to we can see cm7 in oure device. mr.cips gokhle is very good and spirit dev. He is the best.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] bydefault:
Ganbatte !!!
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] santosh jk:
can anyone tell me when it will be ready to use. i'm fan of cm7 roms;)
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] adnanahmad1786:
i am trying to port cm7 [2.3.6] i am able to enter it . just making stable one. you all are asking for kernal iam using 2.6.35.7 that you all are using no new kernal but we need a new good kernal

many more dev are trying to port cm7 and i think they will succses in this project

when i am installing this one i can not able to enter it was only showing boot image because if week kernal but after then i try one more time i can able to enter it. i shock

which you are see in the photo this was cm7 [2.3.6]temperary

so many problem are there in cm7

i upload cm7 which i made but after make it complete just wait ..

my board exam is in march and i have to study i think after my board exam i try it ......

i think many good dev are there they will make a good cm7 for galaxy y

me also trying to port good one.

but please say to dev to make a new powerfull kernal for galaxy y .
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
you are right powerfull kernel is main in cm7.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] daadeguzman:
Goodluck to the DEV's :)
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] pratyush.creed:
i made a kernel for Galaxy Y , and i will be be testing it today !!! and btw which cm are u porting, i mean from which device ?? coz a cm that i ported once booted bt the touchscreen wasnt working ..but there wasnt any FC (i couldnt use it much though) !!
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] kentoi me:
yup dude, your right insecurities of someones idea. let them try to do what they want, everythngs started with an xperiment, be openminded posters, relax, there are only 2 possible thngs that will, its either. it will work or not,
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] neil05:
dont ask for ETA. They still testing it in our device.pls read before asking.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] angel_boulevard:
Seem many dev trying porting cm7 for us.Great devs
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
your kernel suport oc?
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] kentoi me:
wew! that was so excting mr. creed. hope to use that kernel soon, plz impost nstruti0n. lots of thanks
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] sneha kul:
wow, cm7 on galaxy y. it's very cool:D
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] aspee:
good.my one friend have galaxy y maybe he will happy to see it

anyway,if you need any help just pm me.

btw instead of porting better to create from source
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] pratyush.creed:
No OC yet (its risky,and its my frnds device ) ..but added UV,EXT4 support for Darktremor App2Sd!!
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] allenmark18:
GO! still here cheering for the development of this rom.

noob here :confused:
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] hotohori18:
hope to see cm7 soon in SGY ^_^ goodluck devZ... for a noob like me and the others benefits...
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] adnanahmad1786:
i am porting cm7 for galaxy y thanks for making a kernal

are you check cm7 by using your kernal on galaxy y

pratyush you can port cm7 on galaxy y

try and flash with your kernal best of luck

please try and tell
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] pratyush.creed:
i cn understand u are portin for galaxy y ..bt from which phone ??
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] adnanahmad1786:
i am using galaxy fit cm7
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] musashihatred:
I tried cm7 from ace and mini. Booted only.

-- musashihatred@xda-app
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
when @pratyush.creed kernel will ready then we can port more roms form galaxy fit
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] kentoi me:
Hey guy want to ask sumthng bout my sgy appearance, n0tificti0n bar did n0t appear aftr i use the systemUI.APK. Wat wil i do, nid s0me support guys, urgently.:-(
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] PREMOLIKES:
What A pity! ha ha.Try flashing a rom.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] aadaars:
Flash to a rom using odin,backup ur data before u do:)
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] kentoi me:
tnx u guys........... want to try it....

---------- Post added at 03:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:28 PM ----------

wait.. question... how will i connect my phone to pc??? coz i dont have notification bar...
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] aadaars:
u have to put it to download mode to flash:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUW4SujUDbg

follow the links in the description and make sure u dont leave any step..the firmaware i have used in the video is 2.3.6 ddkk1..If u wnt use that too..its stable and good:)
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] kentoi me:
my firmware is xkl2... is it ok???
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] aadaars:
Not sure. Better follow my vid
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] kentoi me:
k tnx mr aadaars.. ill follow this carefully.. thnx a lot
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] adnanahmad1786:
hey cips today i try cm7 some more aaps are working +boot.img is working too

not working screen looker and music and cyanbread is not working e.t.c

i hope it will fix it soon
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
good friend i hope this bug will fix soon. screen locker mean 3rd party screen app or in music bug mean only music player are not working ya you can't hear audio if you can't hear audio then try this. open libs folder and copy all audio libs from sgy and paste on cm7 libs folder.:):D
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] inder swami:
Grt..... Cant wait for it
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] blackjack1942:
what happen if I install this cyanogenmod 7 of Galaxy mini in my Galaxy Y? http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1344440

hard brick or soft brick? thanks
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] cosminx13:
i think it will not boot you can still restore from cwm
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] sireangelus:
listen up.. try formatting in rfs instead of ext4.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] musashihatred:
softbrick dude :D

dude i have tried the ICS of galaxy ace and CM7 of mini but it booted. :D afterwards it forces close so i restored the original rom =="
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] Ron G:
custom kernel is main porblem.
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] ankit024:
romfory.blogspot.com

hi,

i want to know that no one from the developer has tried to develop a kernel for the device...??/

i saw a post of sakindia who tried and want to confirm that the kernel is working or not or any other developer has made kernel.

regards,

admin

romfory.blogspot.com
[Galaxy Y GT-S5360 General] musashihatred:
Yap. Custom kernel must be used :)