yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] clackity:
You don't have any idea what hardware you or anyone else has.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] dcAndroidFan:
Instead of challenging me to explain your question about the magic nerve pinch, please focus on the point of THIS thread. The GPs on my Prime, and apparently many others, actually worked pretty well. Without pinching it, or taking it apart and attaching foil, and without running wires through the HDMI port, and without clipping external GPS receivers on it. And it had the metal caseback, and the pogopins of death. And the GPS worked. Pretty darn well, in fact.

Then the SOFTWARE got updated. Now the GPS doesn't work, and no amount of shaking, pinching, or coddling will fix it. Address THAT TOPIC instead of making ridiculous assertions about how hardware is the problem with all of them.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] dcAndroidFan:
I know what aluminum feels like. And I know what plastic feels like. And I can assure you that my hardware has an aluminum caseback. As to what's INSIDE there, yes -- there may be some variation and I'm not going to open mine up to find out -- but I can assure you it worked a lot better on GPS and Wifi before the .13 update. And the caseback didn't change.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] krispy521:
Prior to the .11 update on 1/17, mine saw about 15-16 birds driving in my car (its a soft top). After that update, I get nothing. Same exact thing happened to my Dad's too.

BTW. I know this because since my GPS was weak to begin with, I tested it before and after that update, since that update was to fix the GPS. I did not move the table during the tests or the update.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] kapitankoz:
Asus! Stop screwing with my functional hardware!

I agree there should be more of a dedicated effort from ASUS. I also have one of the units with a GPS which functioned fantastically(honeycomb)...then didn't(ICS)...then did(.11)...now doesn't(.13). It will be interesting if this gets fixed by a dev and custom ROM before ASUS resolves it. I'm sure someone out there is furiously working away at it.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jdudb:
There are other issues than hardware and software, solar radiation can make a considerable difference on a day to day basis. I do believe that the problem is probably a combination of hardware and software but I would also like to point out that for me the quality of reception is not how many satellites lock, but how accurate is the fix. Anything less than 15 feet I think is pretty bad. My bluetooth GPS device gives me a fix of 8 to 10 feet indoors when paired to my Prime.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
OMG, not this discussion again.

Here's the thing.. I have no idea where you are getting your statistics from.. but at this moment, there's absolutely NO IDEA of the % breakdown of how GPS is behaving in the wild.

While I will not dispute the claim of "s/w" having some/small % of causing the issue of GPS...

1.) the variables & extreme behavior of GPS from each firmware update is ridiculous based on each PERSONs claim in this FORUM.. that.. it LEADS more to h/w issue

2.) if you wish to claim "s/w" is a huge issue, please.. show us a data from each firmware update of how GPS is behaving (that's including GPS test and app test *such as google map without WIFI on.. and the time it takes to find your location*)

Not only that, but you will a collection of data from large sample as well to make your claim.

I have checked & tested my GPS ever since the launch of Prime. Not only does my GPS behave radically from each firmware update.. but it also VARIES daily. While I technically have the "good" GPS.... the signal strength is not only ridiculous but as soon as it "MOVES".. even slightly.. it changes its performance. Thus, even at "stationary" position.. unless it is absolutely stationary.. I will never know how it will perform (such as geotagging and etc).

Again, I have argued this point many times. S/W will never ever overcome a H/W issue. And with the current state of PRIME (metal backplate, pogo pins & other variables we don't know)... we might find more H/W variables that can cause PRIME GPS to act so radically.

If you really want your prime GPS to function ... you should really be looking for H/W change. Oh, and remember... Asus removed GPS from their specification (which means, if you bought GPS after the announcement & knew about the ISSUE.. ASUS doesn't owe you anything when it comes to GPS *granted, if GPS shows up in your BOX.. that's another debate*).
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] buxtahuda:
Alright. Fine. Tired of it. Downloading .7 and .11. I am reverting and testing battery/GPS on these, then agian on .13.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] dcAndroidFan:
Good, because it pretty clearly caused a large % of the issue on mine. And on a number of other users who have already posted on this thread.

Mine performed consistently well before the update. I didn't document it every day, but the only reason I took that picture originally was because I was amazed at how well the unit performed compared to the other unit. As far as "perfectly stationary", mine held a solid lock at 70 MPH on the interstate with at least 7 birds, accuracy between 20 and 48 feet. Tested multiple times, once on an overcast day.

Maybe. But we're more likely in the near term to get fixes through software. Maybe Asus will change position and do a recall, but right now it looks like they're trying to address with FW updates and if there's something they can change (or change back) to return the functionality that was previously there, I would appreciate it.

EDIT: to clarify -- in general they are trying to address issues with FW. It seems like on the Bluetooth dropout issue they have given up and as of yesterday they have declared a special RMA procedure -- but it's still not a new caseback.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
Are you telling me that.... although I have no idea if you tested.. but you were able to "navigate"? 70 MPH.. with 20 to 48 ft accuracy (still crap but at least feasible).. without losing a lock?

And your last paragraph is one dangerous proposition. Not only will that "mislead" or "confuse" Prime owners (and future).. but it's also "HOPE" you are instilling. Also, we have no idea what the last GPS firmware update did.. (the 1st one basically turned GPS into aGPS by forcing WIFI to be turned on with GPS). And let me make it clear, after Asus removed the GPS from their specification.. they have no reason to support GPS & they never made any statement that they will SUPPORT GPS through s/w.

Finally, the lvl of PRIME acting so radically from PRIME to PRIME leads more to H/W... instead of S/W. Btw, did you ever test out Google Map (with precache map) on the time it took to find your LOCATION (with wifi off of course)?

Oh yea, you are also the "minor".. or "rare" in this case with your .. or how your GPS performed.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] taylorgrandorf:
Consider also if you have LTE in your area. It just launched here and I get 0 sats on all of my GPS devices now.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] dcAndroidFan:
We have Verizon LTE but it's been active in our area since last November sometime -- that's not a recent change. My HTC Incredible gets amazing GPS, even with the cell connection and WiFi completely turned off.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] dcAndroidFan:
I was not navigating -- I was using GPS Test to monitor connections and accuracy, just as I was in the picture. I did not test navigating at that speed.

My point exactly. I don't know what the update did but it took away working functionality. It could come back in the next update. Although I am not trying to instill hope, I don't see how that's dangerous. What's misleading or confusing about my position? It worked, now it doesn't, and firmware changed. People here are grown-up enough to make up their own minds about whether that should make them hopeful.

Did not test with precached maps or navigation. GPS Test was finding my location within a minute or two, usually. And I may have been the minor case. Not at issue. What's at issue is that something worked and then firmware broke it.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] sdynak:
if it matters.. .11 & .13

here are before & after.. after is about a second or 2 to get this but mostly not working at all.. with before I could hold a lock.. almost exact conditions, location and outside.. you judge
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Blairware:
A request.

Also, could we try at least to keep GPS comments in this thread to SOME level of reasonably scientific observation? I have had more than enough of the "I get a lock in 10 seconds, indoors, every time. When what they are referring to is a LOCATION lock?

If you are using Google maps, and the ability to see your location as a measure of GPS, please refrain from commenting please. If you are using GPS Status or GPS Test, that would help, and if you could specify whether aGPS is contributing to the numbers through WiFi, that would help also. Finally, if you are trying out navigation, either cached maps or a standalone navigation app like CoPilot Live would be the way to go (or tether WiFi for the map data from your phone.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
Hmm.. I guess my point is.. while GPS test is a source, it also means nothing. You are obviously looking to use GPS for apps that requires GPS functionality.. however, to rely on GPS test as the source & assume those "APPS" worked based on GPS test ... should be disregarded.

GPS test gives an idea, but unless you tested through say.. Google Map, Geotagging.. and what not.. I doubt you really know how your GPS functioned to your needs.

And I understand your position, and you should consider it as YOUR case... & what it happened to you.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Blairware:
WHOA!

MAN! That went from some of the BEST GPS Test results I have seen to just as bad as mine, LOL! I would be rather pissed if that was the result of the .13 OTA. By the way, did you ever get to try navigating when it was working previously?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] dcAndroidFan:
I agree that diagnostic tools are a better measurement than simply a map fix. The testing I did was with GPS Test. I used GPS Status as well, but I liked the interface better on GPS Test. Tested with WiFi on and off. The results in my OP picture were with WiFi on but the unit would get similar results with it off. That was upstairs in a 2-story vinyl-sided house, near an exterior wall. Downstairs, in the center of the house, I could only get 6-7 birds with a lock on 4.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] buxtahuda:
I'll go all the way back to HC if anyone really wants, but at the moment I'm on upgrade .7. I'm about to factory reset, at which point I will download only my monitoring/testing apps and get to work.

So, I'll get screenshots of .7, .11, and .13 in GPS Test; I'll try Maps/Geotagging without ever running the apps connected to data; then with data?

Give me a good step-by-step and I'll give you all the data you could want from my Prime
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] sdynak:
unfortunately no.. I really didn't have a need to but wish I tried.. though I had a pretty good unit before. Not really upset as my GPS on my Photon is perfect. It would be cool to have this tho..
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] dcAndroidFan:
I can only speak to my case. That's why I started this thread to solicit input on the experience of others. I value the information that can be gained from shared experience. I appreciate the users who have posted VERY SIMILAR results in this thread. I make no attempt to speak for them but the aggregate of our experience should have some weight.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
I knew it wasn't totally metal back issue 2 months ago :) and have been saying so ever since then.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Blairware:
You me like this? C1 Serial, received early February as a replacement:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=22534826&postcount=134
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] buxtahuda:
And this lol
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
Lmfao software rears its ugly head up in GPS issue.....I'm loving da feedback on it... Shinzz loves to talk about how software is proven to make GPS faulty ..lmao ;) OP made my day. SHINZZ did a HomeAlone double face slap. Op n Shinzz will make great friends.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
I have nothing against it if you take that approach...

I just hate ppl making "assumptions", call it a "fact", and throw in "whatever" to say.. this is the reason for everyone/majority/ or whatever.

---------- Post added at 06:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 PM ----------

I never once denied that "S/W" might cause & is part of "SMALL" issue to GPS.

MY POINT.. to this day.. has been..

"S/W" WILL NEVER EVER OVERCOME & FIX HARDWARE FAILURE.

And the whole.. "navigation".. as in..

GPS won't even come close to being "passable" when it comes to "NAVIGATION"

While it might be possible to reach a point where it can be used for geotagging, when it comes to NAVIGATION GPS.... I really don't understand the people's obsession on s/w.

Also, H/W plays BIG..and MAJOR part in GPS fiasco. I really don't understand why people are looking for s/w (and magical i might add) fix to solve all of their problems. Why go after very limited "success".. when SUBSTANTIAL & major boost in performance can be attained through H/W fix??

Considering that ASUS took GPS off of their spec, I see no reason to fuel this debate... as it can confuse & mislead people. If you value GPS, especially as NAVIGATION... don't even bother purchasing PRIME & keep your prime hoping for a magical s/w fix down the road.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] blinky44:
Thanks again for the humor, this is one of the best threads we have had in a while. Clear, consise and no argument. As many of us can validate that the updates to date have reacted differently with Primes. My son was ROFL last night when we picked him up at school and the Prime was hanging out the window. First think he noticed was where are the sat's dad. Obviously not the same since .13 for me either. Do I care no but I was playing with BT and tried GPS as an afterthought. After reading Gary's replies to various threads yesterday I am not to optimistic that the next OTA will be any better. They have their heads in the sand at ASUS.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] buxtahuda:
Software version .7

​

GPS, no data

​

GPS, data, AGPS updated

​

GPS, data, AGPS cleared

​

Give me a bit to install .11 and go through the motions, post will be updated

*EDIT: Or should I do all these at the same time of day across three days?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
Probably better across three days. More data to compare. I think software is part of the issue. Hardware plays a bigger factor though. But the thing is people who had decent working GPS got messed up from different updates. So if someone GPS was working last update then all of a sudden not working on this new update, it can be easily seen how the software influenced it.

We do have methods now to revert back to older firmware if you want. There's another update coming early next week. Asus will continue to tweak the GPS firmware the best they can to get GPS to an acceptable point, hopefully. Proof? Ever since they removed GPS spec from page, they have still constantly been pushing out updates that include new GPS firmware also. Which in turn helped out alot of peoples GPS finally get fixes n locks who never received them before.

It is weird how some are saying their GPS got messed up with this latest update when the GPS firmware wasn't changed at all. I don't think...can't rememeber. I know wifi n Bluetooth were changed for sure though.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Erusman:
Weak WIFI and very poor GPS is a DIRECT result of the aluminum backplate.

GPS - Asus can make any sort of software/firmware upgrade they want. But I feel these updates will never fix the GPS issue. There is just way to much interference with the aluminum backplate. You could put the worlds strongest GPS antenna inside that case and you will not get any better results. (i tried and GPS was still blocked by the aluminum backplate) I believe people are interpreting a few birds in GPS test as having a working GPS. Take your tablet on a little roadtrip and use navigation. WARNING: If the GPS takes you off a cliff don't blame me!:eek:

WIFI - Will always be weak (distance away from router). ANY kind of software / firmware upgrade Asus makes wont fix the WIFI in the prime. The aluminum backplate interferes with the WIFI. At a short distance you can get some excellent results. However, as soon as you put a few walls between your router and your prime. The WIFI will drop off very fast. Because of that darn Aluminum backplate. Asus can only do so much with software updates for the WIFI (i.e. uping the milliwatts of the WIFI chip) But that aluminum backplate is going to FOREVER interfere with the WIFI in the prime.

Hence: T700 series tablet. Wow look mom they have a plastic strip on top of the tablet instead of aluminum. I wonder why Asus did that. hmmmmm

Aluminum is great at blocking GPS / WIFI. I have a neighbor who has aluminum siding on his house. Soon as he walks outside with any sort of electronic devices he can't pickup his WIFI. Of course aluminum siding does have its advantages. Hackers are going to have a heck of a time. Especially if they are trying to gain access outside his house on his WIFI. :D
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] buxtahuda:
^^^

Truth

I've still noticed changes per s/w though, and so feel like documenting
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
Constantly???? There has been 2... One, the first one basically turned GPS into aGPS (by forcing WIFI to be on with GPS) & and the 2nd.. we have no idea what it did exactly (except it broke, helped.. or did nothing to each individuals PRIME GPS... as in, it didn't really fix/support PRIME's GPS overall).

Also, while we have had multiple firmware updates (overall.. not just GPS firmware).. this also caused Prime's GPS to function radically & differently to each individual. So, exactly how has Asus supported GPS through s/w update?

Finally.. let me quote Gary Key:

"2/8/12 Update - We pushed 9.4.2.13 early to address the random lock and reboot issues plus you might see general improvements in performance including WiFi and maybe even aGPS."
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] dcAndroidFan:
So now, this gets more interesting. I decided to test GPS a couple more times yesterday evening just to make sure I was getting no satellites. Much to my suprise, when I fired it up, I got 10 satellites with 9 locks, indoors.

View attachment 905009

Totally amazed, since the day before I wasn't able to get anything. However, my amazement was short-lived, because when I stopped the app and then restarted about fifteen minutes later to retest -- boom. Back to zero.

View attachment 905010

Something is definitely screwed up in the software. As the first screenshot shows, the hardware is capable of getting good results. Indoors, even. But something is screwing it up.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Tubular:
^ I don't get your methodology, your argument that software must be a culprit because it worked in at least one instance makes no sense because it ignores other culprits including environmental ones.

Because it worked in one instance doesn't mean the hardware is good, nor does it mean an absence of environmental interference nor does it mean the software is suspect, it just means it worked in one instance.

I strongly doubt there's any randomness or stochasticity involved in the code and therefore the code does the same thing every time given its inputs. The inputs are however stochastic to some extent when you consider what affects the inputs: environmental factors. Environmental factors are not truly stochastic because they operate on patterns but for convenience sake we can say yes they are stochastic. I'm more inclined to believe the problem is with the hardware second and environmental factors first.

It might be plausible that software is to blame if you seen a lot of sats, did an update and seen none (and even this is debatable) because how it interprets satellite signals may change in the code but you stated all you did was restart the app. No change was made to the software and again I strongly doubt its stochastic unless you think it rolls a dice when it determines whether the signal is a satellite or not.

And in the end if it's so strongly affected by environmental factors then in conclusion the GPS fails due to the hardware for the most part and if the environmental conditions are good your hardware might perform better. You're still left with strong interference from an aluminum backing and the GPS either works or it doesn't depending on whether you're lucky with the environment. That's old news.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
It this from same firmware?

If so.. isn't this more of an evidence that leads to H/W malfunction??
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] dcAndroidFan:
Actually, if you followed this thread from the beginning you would see that I was able to see a lot of sats on a regular basis (every time I started the software) before I did an update. Following the update, I have been unable to obtain the same results except for on a very sporadic basis, and then they disappear a few minutes later. This could be attributed to a number of possible factors within the software environment, as well as to external environmental factors. The fact is that it seems to have worked consistently better before the update. I'll test again tonight to see what happens.

Also, bonus for using the word stochastic at least four times in one post.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] dcAndroidFan:
Both these shots are from the same firmware -- my point was that something is causing the unpredictability in results. Maybe it is hardware, but prior to the update, the results were consistent -- when I launched the app and waited a minute or so, I'd get great results. Now, it's very sporadic. The screens were to show that, unlike some units which have never been capable of getting any signal (which I would be more likely to blame on hardware) this unit is capable of getting a good signal -- so something must be causing that to fail.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Tubular:
I did follow you from the beginning of the thread. I saw nothing compelling and I didn't see proof the update was responsible for your loss of signal strength. You stated the GPS version didn't update. So either it updated without changing the GPS version or it didn't update. There's no proof either way.

Even the whole "GPS update causing performance changes" angle is funny in this case because you didn't really do any testing. You took it out and ran GPS test while taking none of the environmental factors into light. For all we know you could be imagining the whole thing.

You correct me if I'm wrong:

1. You didn't really test it more than firing up the GPS test in the same location.

2. At a passing glance you noticed that the performance was different but cannot rule out environmental factors.

So where's the substance for your claims? Is it more plausible that they snuck in an update and the software is responsible despite the fact that you have no real tests to even establish a baseline for GPS performance, the GPS version didn't change and the hardware is known to impede performance?

I have no idea why you would point this out unless you're trying to claim a bonus for being an asshole. I apologize if I offended you. If you want to be a little asshole, shoot me for having a different opinion. :rolleyes: I'll stick to the belief that it's everything to do with hardware and the only reason the software matters is because the hardware has reduced signal strength to pitifully low levels, you're free to put the Prime over your head as your tin foil hat and cook up theories with no backing, just don't expect

everyone

to believe them on the internet.