yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
you honestly think consumers care that apple, google, and microsoft are suing each other when they, the consumer, goes to buy a phone ? do sales numbers reflect your belief in proportion to lawsuit wins/losses or some other metric ?

please, before you delusion yourself any further, do this:

conduct a post-sales survey of people walking out of bestbuy (or your favorite retailer) with the following three questions.

1) did you base your purchase on current lawyers' success, or the shiny screen ?

2) would you please name the last three court decisions which re-affirmed you were purchasing the right shiny device today ?

3) who one the superbowl, and which phone did you buy ?

i can guarantee you if you sample 100 random (as random as bestbuy customers walking out of the store on a sunny day are anyway) customers, they will not be able to answer questions number one and two. Number 3 will be a two part answer, so it will reallllllly trip of some folks, and likely take a few minutes. bring your lunch !

while there was some humor involved, hopefully you will see the grounding of the questions in reality and how the majority of people not only do not know the answers, but do not care.

****

also-

you mentioned that the lumia may/could land the second place in sales behind the iphone. if you really believe this, you don't need to conduct the survey above. just whistle louder and the voices will go away.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vishrb:
I do not think that people care about lawyers but they cannot buy a device that is not available. If android looses some of these court battles at best they may have to charge a bit more for the phone or even worse get banned until they overcome the issue. These patent issues will eventually start to catch up. This is why google snapped up moto. They woudl have not doen that unless they were very worried about the patent issues.

On another note there are plenty of frustrated android users and plenty of dumb phones out there for win phone 7 to be a success with or without android legal issues.

It will take time. I was at a party the other nite and there was a user there that was not a techie and had a windows phone. It was her first smart phone. The sales guy at my office baught his first smart phone and it is a win phone. I bet good money my CEO would jump to win phone 7 from his iphone if he was shown the platform.

I fall in the other catagory I mentioned. I bought a captivate 23 months ago. Never happy with it. Had alot of fun trying out ROM after ROM but never found the smooth experience I was looking for. Was fun though. I am kind of over that and now will pick a phone that just works. I will look at the galaxy skyrocket and lumia 900. So far the Lumia 900 is more appealing to me. I have a xoom with ICS on it and to tell you the truth I do not believe that the ICS OS is all that. It is better but still. My perception may be skewed by the two devices I bought but that is the way it is. Not bashing android and like I said I will evaluate the skyrocket.
[Windows Phone 7 General] svtfmook:
maybe a little, but, taking the current pitfalls of wp7, looking at the changes coming in apollo, you can easily see that the changes are not aligned to fix any of the current pitfalls.

the apps in the market suck. you cannot tell me differently. there are a hand full of decent, functioning apps that people could use daily. the rest, junk. what is microsoft planning to fix that? hopefully not looking to nokia's expertises, since the ovi market was even worse. the wm market sucked. if they look at their current resources, they're F'd. they need to attract and retain good developers. they need to generate a program to get developers to build good, quality apps, and then keep them interested enough to keep these apps up to date.

you'll see when apollo comes and you find you have about $100 in apps that you will no longer be able to use because they will not be updated.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
the speculation is neat, but i want to see the product.

**edited the less relevant**

:) wiating to see videos of apollo (:
[Windows Phone 7 General] prohibido_por_la_ley:
the apps in the market are fine, all the apps I got run great. MS is providing incentives and programs to attract devs, sorry that ur clueless to that fact its been in the news since before mango was even released. Also apps don't even matter to most smartphone users out there according to this study. We also don't know what all will be included with Apollo. So once again too early.
[Windows Phone 7 General] svtfmook:
apps in the market are fine?

i need a facebook app so i can follow the groups that i am involved with. got one that works? touch.facebook.com is not acceptable since you can't view pictures correctly!

i need a twitter app that works, got one?

my kids want to play angry birds seasons.

i got a ticket for using the stock navigation app because i kept having to grab the phone and tap for the next set of directions.

i want to use spotify, can you get it to work?

and yeah, sure, microsoft gave out some lumias to developers. awesome. but what did microsoft do to ensure that the developers used them to develop, and not just toss up on ebay for a quick buck? not to mention most devs they grabbed were first timers. microsoft does not need NEW developers. they NEED to attract the developers who already have great working apps on other platforms.

---------- Post added at 02:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:06 PM ----------

lol, the windows marketplace is like the china of the app world.

we don't have words with friends, but, we have this knock off version words by post.
[Windows Phone 7 General] JVH3:
If you are in a state that all cell usage is prohibited while driving, then the tapping aspect does not matter.

I've been searching for laws by state. This is the best link I found:

A general site with links to the other states: http://mobilephonelaws.com/

Here are other links I found.

Here is a reference to existing texting laws by state: http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/cellphone_laws.html

Drivers in the novice category mentioned in the link aren't even allowed to use the cell phone while driving in many states. In any case, IMO, novice drivers should not even have their cell phones on while driving.

Here is Nevada's law regarding it: http://handsfreeinfo.com/nevada-cell-phone-laws-legislation Very clear about texting and voice communictaion. And clearly allows activating.

Michigan laws- http://handsfreeinfo.com/michigan-cell-phone-laws-legislation

States / Cities that would prohibit tapping prohit the usage entirely.
[Windows Phone 7 General] svtfmook:
lol, it's not on google so it's not true.

yes, you can get a ticket for operating a mobile device while driving. i got pulled over because the cop thought i was texting. i told him i was hitting the screen to go to the next step in directions and he informed me that in that city it is illegal to operate a mobile device while driving.

it's not a state law, it's a local law.

and novice driver? i have been driving for 20 years and i have been through the mid ohio race school. raced scca and nasa for several years. this was my first ticket since i was 17, except for a speed camera ticket i received for a 27 in a 25.

also, try searching "distracted driving laws"

then again, no statements by me are factual, lol, internet stronghold.
[Windows Phone 7 General] JVH3:
Tapping or no tapping, the usage was illegal. You technically were operating the cell phone while getting directions even if you did not need to tap it.

Just like in all states that prohibit texting. Keep the phone below the windshield. But don't look down too long. Don't want to crash, swerve, drive of the road, or get busted.

That is why the laws have actually hurt more than helped. People don't stop texting or emailing because a law was passed. People just hide it which takes their eyes off the road and traffic.

You used to be able to hold your phone up at windshield height to text, "Be home in 10 min." Now you have to keep it low and glance down and back to the road as you type.

I've never gotten a cell phone related ticket, but I have had at least 20 speeding tickets through the last 23 years.

Novice was not meant as an insult. It is specifically came from one of the links to describe all new drivers. There are different laws that apply to new drivers.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
You are misinterpreting the "all cell phone usage" bans. That refers to making or receiving calls, whether handheld or hands-free. It has nothing to do with using the device hands-free as a GPS device. That does not constitute "operating the cell phone", any more than using a Garmin GPS device would.

It would violate most distracted driving laws to try to program your Garmin device while your vehicle is in motion, but it would not violate those laws to follow the directions from the device if it was programmed prior to starting out. That is why most portable (and all in-dash) GPS devices have a built-in feature that disables all programming features once you exceed a speed of about 5 MPH.

The key element to most of these laws is physical interaction with your phone/device while the vehicle is in motion (of course, this does not apply to hands-free calling bans, but those are a separate issue and unrelated to GPS navigation usage).
[Windows Phone 7 General] svtfmook:
Either way, the core apps that users look for, don't work properly in wp7. Navigation, Facebook, twitter, Spotify, google talk, Pandora, angry birds, words with friends, it all either doesn't exist or works half-assed. So no matter what the updates Apollo brings, if it doesn't change any if this, wp7 will remain in last place
[Windows Phone 7 General] MikeyMike01:
Facebook works just fine. And you get notifications without having to install a blackberry simulator.

Sent from my SGH-I897
[Windows Phone 7 General] prohibido_por_la_ley:
once again u missed my point.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
Local ordinances were passed recently here that ticket texting and/or distracted drivers. Tapping the screen is just a ticketable as being idiotic and texting instead of watching the road, as it should be. I've watched people slam into other drivers while texting. Its the most idiotic occurance to predictably cause accidents. Is it just a txt, or 6000lbs of death piloted by un-attentive people ?

no thank you.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sinister1:
Okay, someone please explain to me why this wasn't such a big issue on WM? On WM you didn't have to wait for that stupid ding sound and then tap on the screen for directions but on WP you have to :confused: WTF? Some one mentioned its a legal issue ???? hum ??? Again why wasn't it an issue before and now it is?
[Windows Phone 7 General] JVH3:
The main reason is that the laws have gotten tighter in many areas regarding what you can do with your phone while driving.

If I recall correctly, with Windows Mobile, there was not voice guided turn by turn directions. Your route was highlighted on the map. It showed your location. And you could see a list of directions. It did not recalculate. I may be thinking of Google Maps. My Tilt 2 died in August and I don't have a working SIM for my AT&T Fuze, so I don't have a way to check.

In the areas where the laws prohibit operating a mobile device, the Windows Mobile version is likely illegal to use. Oddly enough pulling a map out of your glovebox and unfolding it and trying to find your location on it is not illegal unless the area also has a distracted driving law.

I am thinking of starting a thread on the legalities, because it has gone from just 1 or 2 posts to multiples. It is kind of on topic, since it is different on Windows Phone 7 than the other platforms, depending on the application. But, most of the details are not on topic. I'll update this post with a link to a thread if I find one or create one.

Some states, such as California state

http://mobilephonelaws.com/california/

By that, I may be breaking the law when I push the info button on my car stereo to see the name and artist of the song that is playing. xm radio is an electronic wireless communications device. The song info is text based communication sent from xm to me with every song.

Many of the state laws specifically say text, which technically would mean that sending a pic with no text might be winnable in court, but it might require going all the way to the state's supreme court.

With the laws as poorly and vaguely written as they are, the safest way to remain in compliance and use GPS from the phone is to leave the phone in your pocket and use only voice based GPS that does not require any interaction. Bing maps requires interaction.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
That was a very articulate, thorough answer, but I don't think that was the question he was asking ;).

I think he meant, "why was full voice-guided turn by turn supported on WM6, but WP7 requires tapping?"

And the answer is, no one really knows, because Microsoft isn't telling. We know that there is a legal restriction imposed on them on WP7 (by Nokia, of all companies) that prohibited the implementation of full voice-guided TBT. What we don't know is, why that limitation as imposed now, when it appeared to be allowable for them to implement it before.

Also, from what I read about the limitation, it also prohibited automatic route recalculation (which is what I observed when I tested it, and what every review I read for Mango also observed). I don't know how some people can be getting automatic recalculation (without requiring any taps), when I could not.
[Windows Phone 7 General] fleon888:
There is some irony in what you say. I'd say something similar, but I'd go the opposite way. The apps on WP7 almost never crash, are attractive, and generally work. I have no idea what you did to your FB or Twitter app, but mine work just fine...

On the other hand, my work phone is a Galaxy SII. Not only do the apps crash, but basic first-party OS components FC. Email crashes about once a week, my calendar sometimes syncs, the browser crashes at least hourly.

Having said that, our company did an interesting study. Apps are important to people, but we found that 80% of people only have 8-9 apps that they use. The rest they either 1) said they didn't use, or 2) didn't even know what they were.

Now, flipping around- I think WP7 has some issues. Most of them stem from the lousy marketing, advertising, and negative image Microsoft has. But I like the ecosystem a great deal. Which is why, out of the Galaxy, the iPhone 4, and the Titan that I have, I use the Window Phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
Exactly. I stopped checking this thread only to see I was being assaulted by ohgood. I did not think I needed to spell that out.

Android has issues. Major legal issues. For the exact same reason every naysayer in here wants to keep harping about sales is why Android's legal issues matter.

Sales are a representation of how popular your product is. It is not a direct measure of how good your product is. I am not claiming good and popular are mutually exclusive, but neither are the two 1:1. Pet rocks were popular after all.

How many people thought out of the Xbox vs PS3 vs Wii that the Wii was the better product back in 2006? Can't play DVDs, online community nowhere near XBL, graphics not even close to the competitors, coming off a lacklustre Gamecube offering.

So, ohgood, my point was not that legal issues dissuade customers and I never said that. I just made a simple comment that Android has legal issues. And if you do not think that affects sales just ask the Germans and Australians trying to buy a Samsung tablet. Enjoy it not mattering to the US consumer now, but somwhere along the way, unless they bite the bullet and overhaul, Microsoft will be right; it will cost more for OEMs to produce "free" Android phones.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
My opinion about patents or their exploitation doesn't really matter, like lots of other instances...

Possibly, the system will be revamped and competition and innovation will be the goal instead of sales via litigation.

Watching apple, google, and microsoft sue each other into a stalemate and opassing on all the costs to shareholders and end users is nausiating.

Again, just an opinion. The discussion is lots of fun, minus the name calling and personal attacks. :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] prohibido_por_la_ley:
I just got into Spotify just fine, maybe its ur crappy carrier (AT$T) plus I don't think devs would just throw away $100 like that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] arcnet:
Microsoft late?

I read earlier posts in this thread with amusement. All the talk of Microsoft being late to the party etc. Well let's look back a bit and see if this matters. Google were about as late as you can get to the search engine party, Microsoft were about as late as you can be to the console party and I remember similar quips about how long it took them to compete with Netscape in the browser war.

By the way. I am typing this on my WP7 device after giving away my 4S recently having used iPhones for many generations but after less then a year with my Mango Phone I couldn't go back, iOS is looking tired.

I applaud the direction Microsoft are taking, to truly lead the way it will need some radical thinking, the kind we are seeing in the coming OS. I am excited for the first time in long time to see what they do next.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
Name a date/time and I'll mark my calendar with a note to return to this thread. Should be interesting.
[Windows Phone 7 General] svtfmook:
why would it be att if i cannot log in via wifi? the app crashes as soon as i press login. read the reviews, i'm not the only person with the problem.

---------- Post added at 07:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 AM ----------

not sure how your fb app works just fine, have you tried scrolling in it?
[Windows Phone 7 General] morpheus1982:
The scrolling went all jittery after Mango was installed for some reason. It has improved slightly in subsequent OS updates, but there hasnt been as app update since.
[Windows Phone 7 General] svtfmook:
exactly my point. there are a ton of reported problems with many apps in the market and there are no updates that even attempt to solve or even acknowledge the issues.
[Windows Phone 7 General] prohibido_por_la_ley:
mine doesn't crash, as for the fb app use the people hub.

relax,apps aren't everything and they still run better than the ones on Android.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
So you're not doing anything with the phone other than what it came with, and don't want to ?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spookidoodles:
This comment made me laugh.

I use pretty much nothing but the stock apps, and it is the BEST experience on a phone - my iPhone with its hundreds of apps was annoying, and the Android..well I still rate that the worst of all 3 OS'.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
In three posts missing/incomplete/crashing apps has morphed into "I don't need apps".

Given the speculation about what wp8 is, it won't be needed, either at this point. No one needs apps, or wants them, let alone cross availability between desktop and phone ?

Interesting stuff.
[Windows Phone 7 General] JVH3:
For most things users do, apps are not needed. But, there is still a need for quality apps.

The things Apollo is reported to bring will help make it possible for more quality apps to be devloped. Native code is a huge plus. It should enable devs to leverage existing libraries with minimal alteration and a recompile.

Unless things drastically change, it should be possible to port many of the apps that were originally made for Windows Mobile. Just like Opera Mini was ported to Windows Phone 7 in custom ROMs.

The integration and ease of use is the best selling point of Windows Phone 7, but when the OS does not provide everything you want to do, it is nice to be able to find a quality app to do it.

For many the OS does provide this. Others want more.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
Yep. The comment I quoted was three minutes after I installed "iBird Pro" to find out what flocks of small birds were named that were singing outside. All I could think about was having a mobile with -just- Facebook and Email, no complimentary or alternative apps, and how stark a contrast the idea was. If/when those same high quality apps are available, I will bet those same users will "me too" proudly instead of suggesting that they don't need/want apps. Getting redundant now, so I'll stop. :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spookidoodles:
You are just misinterpreting what I have said completely - I pretty much use nothing but the stock apps - pretty much. I always need a life counter (for MTG) and Adobe Reader - and I do install LOADS of games, but on WP7 they nicely go into the games hub, so I don't think of them as apps.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
There wasn't much to interpret. Two different statements between this one and the earlier one. Games are apps too.
[Windows Phone 7 General] prohibido_por_la_ley:
Facebook app was updated today, so that should resolve the issues that person was complaining about.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spookidoodles:
I'm guessing from your general attitude and your signature that you are just looking for a reason to start bashing WP7 or its users. And this is the problem with fanboys.

I feel you may want to look again at your "two different statements."

First, we will start with this:

Interpret -

Verb:

Explain the meaning of (information, words, or actions): "interpret the evidence".

Translate orally the words of another person speaking a different language.

Now, I don't appear to be speaking a different language from you. Maybe I am, but if so there are many similiarities between whatever the hell you spout out and English.

Now let's get that all important quote!

Now look at the definition of the words "interpret" again. In what reality does "pretty much" actually mean "I only use"? Want to correct me on that one?

Regardless of wether you class games as apps or not, when I (the user) am using my WP7 I (the user) class them as games - not apps. This thread is called "How Windows Phone 8 Apollo Would stack up against...X". So the thread in reality, needs posts from a user point of view of the way Windows Phone 7 currently excels.

Every single one gets put into the games hub and they do NOT clutter up my app list - I don't use them as applications, I use them as games, and I will refer to my things the way I want too. OK?

I hope you learn lots of things while your here, mainly how to discuss something without acting like a child.

Have a nice day!
[Windows Phone 7 General] svtfmook:
yep, i'm glad it was updated, and it works great now.

now onto the twitter and the rest of the apps.
[Windows Phone 7 General] prohibido_por_la_ley:
don't know what apps u use, but all the ones I use are regularly updated and run great.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sinister1:
On my 6.5 device Bing maps was turn by turn navigation with Voice which was great because I totally kept my eyes on the road. It even told me to prepare to turn in advance, on WP I have to wait and listen for the ding and then tap on it to get the next voice guided instructions :confused: WT? Most of the time by the time the next ding comes on I have already missed my exit or turn...So Bing maps on WP does not address the legal issue, it makes it even worse so I'm confused.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sinister1:
Yes, that is exactly what I meant, thanks robodad. It makes no sense what so ever. Using the WP version is a driving hazard and such an inconvenience. Hopefully Windows Phone 8 solves this. :mad:
[Windows Phone 7 General] ArtieQ:
iOS 5 doesn't stack up against anything, it's the worst OS out there actually.