yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy S II General] AndreiLux:
No, there was some legitimate discussions going on in the beginning. Right now what you are doing is complete bull****, and just as bad as some of the original flamers. Actually it's worse because you're promoting stupidity...
[Galaxy S II General] crachel:
Due to several pages of off topic chatter (and popular request).. closed.

Thanks
[Galaxy S II General] Areg8_6:
sad that xda is losing good dev and IMHO BEST KERNEL here...
[Galaxy S II General] AndreiLux:
I think this pretty much sums you up knzo. For you this always was a competition between developers for who has the biggest e-penis, and you shunned no methods on gaining your popularity. I'm glad you finally admitted it.
[Galaxy S II General] tomeks:
for sure it is not competition. i'm still thinking it is pride and money mixture :-)

for sure simone earn my respect during this so caled war for his balanced and what important rare answers :-)

anyhow kenzo if i would be you i would be opening new thread in oruginal dev about your app for which kernel is only addon, thats all :-)
[Galaxy S II General] knzo:
I wasn't the one who started the flamewar and kept posting.

If it was about competition, I wouldn't listen to the users like I do and I would have kept the app features to Phoenix only, not open myself to support other kernels.

Lionheart has been around since void and yet you only did this now. That tells me something.
[Galaxy S II General] Entropy512:
The legal definition of "steal" (as in violating the license) - you are correct.

The moral definition of "steal" (claiming someone else's work as your own) - you are not correct.

As to every kernel developer making false advertising - Some may bend the truth, and while people who do that frustrate me, I let it go. Blatantly false claims are a whole different story.

knzo now claims he was "mistaken" and thought we were talking about LionheartX and not Lionheart - but I've linked to his original claim multiple times, and it is clear that he was aware of the differentiation:

He is CLEARLY talking about the original Lionheart and not LionheartX - he even makes the differentiation in this post. He still maintains that it has patches from arighi, which is not possible. In both of his "recipes" for LionheartX, he includes a patch from arighi in the list - but arighi's patch is against the ondemand governor, not conservative. It cannot possibly be part of the recipe, as arighi's patch removes a behavior of the ondemand governor that is not present in the conservative governor.

Edit: You say you didn't start the flamewar - but the above quote proves otherwise. Since I've cited it MULTIPLE times with links you could not possibly be unaware of this being considered the start.

The patch in question is:

https://github.com/arighi/linux-gt-i9100/commit/ee69f4c39f61a94b6ff0dcd3ef9172e527958048

Edit: As to competition vs. cooperation - in some ways, gokhan, simone, and I are in competition. We all provide our own kernels. In others, we are in cooperation - when we have a patch that we believe benfits us all and fits within all of our design goals, it's often shared. Even when I don't seek them out and post a patch, I try to make it as easy as possible to identify what a patch is, where it came from, and what it does (if the original source wasn't clear themselves.) However, there is differentiation because our design goals are different. My opinion (and this is my personal opinion, not fact) - Simone is on the extreme bleeding edge, I'm very conservative, gokhan is in between but much closer to Simone in that regard. Each serves users with different desires and preferences. knzo could have worked within this ecosystem - but he preferred instead to make false claims of differentiation in situations in which his kernel was not different.
[Galaxy S II General] pulser_g2:
I care not who is who in this. I don't know what sides are what (if someone knows who is on what side, I'd be intrigued to know... just for random curiosity).

At the end of the day, facts are facts. I read some of the posts, and had a look at the proof. And it's pretty clear what's going on. It's a hugely complex issue, and I don't have time to try and explain it all here, because I have other things to do.

But yes, rest assured there's no sides here. Because I've not even managed to work out who is on what side... Hence it's impossible for me to be "on" one...

RE signature changes, those show a level of immaturity on this, which I believe is endemic throughout this case from one of the parties involved...
[Galaxy S II General] knzo:
You are doing this on purpose right?

I have already replied to you about both that differentiation and the arighi patch which can even be seen on the step-by-step post. But of course, with the reasons that are motivating you, you don't care at all about this.

Interesting.

You had a "prosecution" without even consulting me, my thoughts or even ask me for proof. It's more like an ordered inquisition than anything else.
[Galaxy S II General] Paradoxxx:
Waw. So much hate here.

Somehow, all their handguns are all aiming at you Knzo.

They doesn't even bother read what you try to explain.

Xda became really weird, especially S2 section. It wasn't an as much developers dictatorship in other device forums.

Maybe you should all consider helping each others, instead of spitting on other's work.

That's ain't a competition, or a number of download race.

Looks like Megaupload closure to me.

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[Galaxy S II General] Paradoxxx:
Damn double post
[Galaxy S II General] zikarus:
That pretty much sums it up for me. Sad somehow. It was not the first time in the SII section that a dev who did not belong to the local xda-gang was taken down from the net...

Entropy512 explains this microcosmos quite frankly a few posts above:

The tone in the discussion in knzo's thread became more and more absurd and inappropiate compared and in relation to the cause of the issue. And two of the three devs named above were heavily throwing flames and partly overacting for days though asked by knzo and many users to refrain from this behaviour and try to solve things via pm and / or the Mods. And so the flamewar went on for nearly 6 days (!) without any Mod interfering. Funny that it now took no more than 5 min. to interfere in gokhanmorals thread...
[Galaxy S II General] Entropy512:
As to solving this via PM - AndreiLux could not have stated things any better why PMs do not work in a situation like this.

As to "xda gang" - I'll cooperate with anyone who is honest and makes an effort to cooperate themselves. I've had disagreements with gokhan in the past, but at this point, we usually get along OK. The key thing is - Simone is honest, gokhanmoral is honest, knzo - clearly NOT honest. It all boils down to - a developer made a blatantly false claim without the technical evidence to back it up, and it blew up in his face.

The group I mention is not exclusive - play nice with us, we'll play nice with you. Sometimes it can get a little heated - but if you've got technical evidence to back you up in an argument, eventually an agreement will be reached where the whole community benefits with greatly improved knowledge. See the initial interactions of AndreiLux and I as an example - that was very heated, but in the end we came to the truth and buried the hatchet (fortunately not in each other's heads). Be a prolific liar and make false claims about our work - well, game on!

Respect is earned, but not given freely. GM, simone, Andrei, and others have earned my respect with their honestly and openness. knzo, on the other hand, lost any respect I had for him with his frequent hype (claiming Lionheart was his own creation), blatant lies (claiming no other kernel had the "mystical tiger blood" that Lionheart did), and attempts at deception or hiding the truth (removing all comments from source code, making kernel source as difficult as possible to review and analyze). Compare to this - https://github.com/Entropy512/linux_kernel_sgh-i777/commits/master - I make every effort to document my own commits clearly in an easy-to-read manner. I try as hard as I can to preserve original credit on commits from elsewhere. When I can't, I try to include a link to the original source. When I revert a commit, I include a statement why in the commit message. I strive to put informative comments in my code, describing what it does (as opposed to removing all traces of documentation).

So we lost one developer, one who was not of any benefit to the community anyway - good riddens. I've been supporting garyd9 with Tab 7 Plus work even though I don't own a device, and I've been cooperating with rumirand on Galaxy Player 5.0 kernel work. Back before everyone jumped ship from the Infuse, I worked with all of the other developers there - because they were all honest people who never sought to mislead their users with hype and BS like knzo has.

As to it taking a while for a mod to intervene - Pulser was away for a few days. I don't know about other mods. The reason intervention was so fast when this spilled into GM's thread was because the spillover was a direct result of the closure.
[Galaxy S II General] rzat:
well knzo that's life im affraid

your void tread with ~70 pages of post - mostly thanks and congrats on smothest and most stable kernel around

echo release was soo good that I was almost sad not finding any new posts on how to improve anything - simply there was not much to improve

on the other side, fuc....ing "bold and beautiful" - everyones know whos thread - with 7 mln posts like :

" with 2.66.776.4.3.4..(released 2h ago btw) i have BEST battery ever.wow...of ****..wait theres another ver. already..goody goody time to flash again.."

Knzo if you decide to carry on with your work please let us users know where to find you

best of luck and thanks for BEST KERNEL UP TO DATE
[Galaxy S II General] danieldmm:
We're installing because it was superior to the other kernels here in XDA, for me it was superior...

Its not Portugal we lost a good dev, its XDA we lost and users here in XDA, its a big diference xD

So, with the facts you say that its not Original Developement, so why not move the thread to Android Developement?

By doing this its XDA who lost and that i can assure you... what happens to the user who des-repect the users? You say you dont took sides, i say you already choose your side...
[Galaxy S II General] mbutandola:
Public should also have to put up with your insults and condescension? Choosing the right words and being respectful are not xda rules, are they? That's why a thread can be closed but insults are not deleted. Yes I have put on my reality distortion glasses.
[Galaxy S II General] mbutandola:
It is obviously very good for a dev posting about spitting on someone's face, is it? That's the right attitude and message to send to users. Those words were not under the radar I guess.

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[Galaxy S II General] mbutandola:
Right. But if someone goes to the police to report a rober having known their activities from quite some time you can question the motivation behind that. Usually the police investigate the whistle blower too and could charge them with complicity.

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[Galaxy S II General] ankit1986:
So true....The open war with such accusations and language shows how mature some devs are here.

And till void echo, it was all praises, but when Phoenix was released along with the "paid" tweaks app, i think few got jealous and started all this crap.

For me & i'm sure for some others also, this was by far the best SGS2 kernel, better than siyah or neak or any other kernel.

The thread was simply closed for some supposedly "false advertising claims".

It could have been moved to the android dev section if it was deemed that the work was not original.
[Galaxy S II General] AndreiLux:
Do you even read the nonsense that you write? Nobody reported anybody (at least not from the major parties involved in the discussion), and pulser did the decision-making on his own. Are we here in some kind of elementary school or church where calling somebody a liar and a crook (backed up with evidence) is considered as an insult to you? Because I will not sugar-coat any discussions just for the sake of discourse. The tone of the discussion was set by knzo back in December where he was deliberately condescending to all other developers, yet I do not see you complaining about him? I know why, because you were not part of the discussion and therefore cannot know about it, yet you keep crying wolf and complaining about how nobody brought up the issue before; because that itself is a lie and false accusation, as is was brought up, and just because you were not informed about it, it does not mean it did not exist. Yet people demand that such matters are to be resolved via PM? You are a hypocrite if you believe that, as you've been commenting with no sign of knowledge of the matter, and yet tell me that's not reality distortion? If anybody puts more weight on the tone of the discussion and deliberately ignores content and arguments put on the table, then ask yourself who is more mature and who is the one acting childish, including yourself.

Et si tu continue de te croire chevalier blanc et en position d'argumenter et de juger de ce qui et correcte et ce qui n'est pas, je peut te l'expliquer comme ça si t'as des problèmes de compréhension. On aime jeter du criticisme tout autour de soi, mais il y a une différence entre des mots vides et quand on y mets du poids derrière.
[Galaxy S II General] mbutandola:
Keep your smugness to yourself will you! You might be very good at coding but you are no more human than I am. And there are much better people out there as well. Words like arsehole were used by you and for many but you it is an insult. The tone of the conversation were set by knzo? Yes right. And you kindly followed suit.

Et je serai le chevalier blanc de qui je veux où je veux! Tu es loin de m'impressionner et incapable de défendre ton point de vue sans en arriver à devenir méprisant. Tu es méprisant dès que l'on adhère pas à tes idées.

Alors oublie moi et continue ta croisade contre un autre!
[Galaxy S II General] JJEgan:
What annoyed me most in that thread was One in hindsight i payfor an app .Two the kernel was not that good .Three the battery life was poor .

Five the numptys who posted once some users started serious comments re the provenance of the rom . Six the dev of this kernel did not seem to want to move forward and take on board valid comments .

As to users posting best kernel ever well all kernels get the same sort of this is the best posts .

jje
[Galaxy S II General] mbutandola:
Ah ah ah. Acting childish! Don't need to have knowledge to tell you that the way you handled that was wrong and I'll stick to it! You tend to lose your patience when your point doesn't come across. In no point did I get involved in the technical discussions. In no point did I say that your argument regarding the codes where not valid. I questioned your motivations and the way you handled the matter. So why do you wanna sound more intelligent than everyone here? You don't need to. Besides you should stick to English because French is obviously not a language that you master as well as coding. Even the child that I am can gather that. We need to speak English here anyway.
[Galaxy S II General] It_ler:
Now I am curious: What is/was your point number "Four"?!

Can not find it in your post above.

EDIT:

BTW, thanks to tomeks for creating this discussion thread ... I think that I am not the only one who reads all posts and arguments in an "entertaining" way. (Like Intratech tried to show with Michael Jackson sitting in a cinema and eating popcorn ;-)
[Galaxy S II General] Paradoxxx:
I was going to post the same.

WHERE IS THE DAMN "FOUR"?!?

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[Galaxy S II General] JJEgan:
Four sorry that's an app you need to buy from the market .

jje
[Galaxy S II General] It_ler:
So, similar to One?!

Or do you mean something else?
[Galaxy S II General] danieldmm:
I think he its confused whith One....

my 2 cent :D
[Galaxy S II General] mariosraptor:
Is this MJ. Man you always make laugh. You are so laconic. Are you Spartan?
[Galaxy S II General] s2d4:
yo andrei, put the guy on ignore.

he won't get it, he actually "expect" devs to be jesus like figures on xda (read this as up to his standard of compassion for the kangers and n00bs).

There are unwritten gentleman agreements/practices amongst devs that are honest, which is how it should be for open source.

so of course ppl would get absolutely irate when ppl don't play by the rule, even lie about it, then defending it with even more lies.

However, according to him, ppl should just eat a humble pie and let it run rampant. That pretty much says it all....

Anyway, being honest should be rewarded, being a liar should be punished. End of discussion.
[Galaxy S II General] mbutandola:
Oh! Was wondering when this one would come. The cherif of all of them who likes waging wars against everyone. Especially if devs are questioned. I should probably be worshiping them as you do. Was just wondering why there was nothing in your signature about knzo. But I should stop before you get me banned.
[Galaxy S II General] HotlipsH:
The nerd variant of the Colbert Report, and it's free... For God sake keep the hilarity coming!
[Galaxy S II General] androidkid311:
Thats very true, was annoying as ****. I want to see feeback from people and all i saw was coding talk and about this and that. Knzo said pm him but didnt listen. Makes the devs look like wild kids tbh :-/

looks like an iphone but powered by android baby!!!!
[Galaxy S II General] s2d4:
lol yeah pretty much..

kang protectors, n00b whiteknights and n00bs

vs

proper devs, senior mods and ppl who can actually read...

fun times :p
[Galaxy S II General] tomeks:
not all could read with understanding. do not overrate some respected dev here :-)
[Galaxy S II General] s2d4:
I'll just quote myself again.

coz apparently reading the same thing could have different understandings...

:D
[Galaxy S II General] mbutandola:
Very good and intelligent way to put it. Congratulations. It's true that devs (like you ;)) are always right. Noobs should be regarded as inferior. How dare they question your attitude. They should be worshiping you. Life is much better with our beautiful phones. We'd die without them. How could we be so ungrateful!

Sorry for that. I'll be the first one to buy your app and use your kernel when they come. Will probably be the best one here considering your great skills.

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[Galaxy S II General] androidkid311:
Loool. Love the humour on this site at times :)

looks like an iphone but powered by android baby!!!!
[Galaxy S II General] Areg8_6:
+1 )) clearly stated
[Galaxy S II General] kwerdenker:
For me there are two sides to this whole discussion: the technical/coding ethics side, with which the whole thing started, and the emotional side, which keeps it on going.

From what I have seen so far, both in the void and the phoenix thread, knzo is really great at steering emotions in the direction he wants. He positioned himself as the underdog, the guy who wanted to "change the game" and then got beaten down by the establishment and their corrupt police force. This way he gets most of the users on his side, because it's a kind of reflex to root for the little guy. Looking at some of the posts in the kernel thread and this one, it's working rather well.

The main problem here is, that many of the people raising their voice in support for knzo probably don't understand the problem at the center of this whole thing. That's because the whole discussion between entropy (and other developer) and knzo is about coding and the ethics involved with open source development. Entropy argued his case in a very technical manor, using code as his main point of prove. For anyone who codes his case is well documented and easy to follow. For anyone who doesn't though, his prove is hard to impossible to follow, so they can't review his argumentation. Knzo on the other hand tried to dodge this way of argumentation for most of the discussion and opted instead for the more approachable but less substantiate way. If I remember this correctly (and I might not), he did the same thing in his void thread. Gokhan called him out for taking his work and saying, that he (knzo) was actually the first to do it and everyone else copied from him. Gokhan also had code to prove his point (I think it were some of his comments still in the code of void. Maybe that's why all the comments where gone in his new kernel version?) but knzo dodged around and gokhan backed off before it escalated further. Entropy this time didn't give up so fast which led to a rougher tone in the discussion and culminated in the situation we are currently in.

So maybe people should review as to WHY exactly they are standing on a specific side of this discussion. Have they arrived there by their own thinking and facts checking or where they led to that conclusion by someone else?
[Galaxy S II General] danieldmm:
Do you now watt make XDA big? Its n00bs, kang protectors and n00b White Knights, dont make one VS thing, this never will finished the way i finished if the well DEVs you speak stopped when n00bs, n00bs White Knights and kang protectors asked to continue whith PM, even this was requested by knzo but the well aclaimed DEVs dont respect this... Never the less i think that the picture of Intratech they post match very well wall this... ONE BIG JOKE, one more time i hope that the mod that close the thread can explain why they closed and not moved to Android Developement...

s2d4 put your ego aside, you forget that you also when started you where a n00b...

Cheers
[Galaxy S II General] B3311:
Nothing posted so far seems to indicate that pulser will change his mind and re-open the said thread.

So as much as I'm enjoying the dev v dev, 15 year old v adult and good v evil slugfests, just wondering what is the purpose of this thread?
[Galaxy S II General] Areg8_6:
PURPOSE- RESUME PHOENIX KERNEL DEVELOPMENT

and

explain why they closed and not moved to Android Developement. ( if this is not original work )
[Galaxy S II General] kwerdenker:
Please consider what you just said: you just care about the end product and not about the way it's made. That's the same as saying "I'm ok with child labor, as long as I get my shiny new Nikes!".

Concerning the development of his kernel: to my knowledge knzo didn't sign any kind of contract to release his kernel exclusively on XDA. He is free to take the development to another site and every user is free to follow him there.
[Galaxy S II General] B3311:
Purpose - no-one's stopping knzo developing his kernel.

Explanation - irrelevant. This isn't a democracy - the mods decide, not us or the devs.

Just sayin'.
[Galaxy S II General] nikzDHD:
You've got a fair point there but how many people consider the ethics of where a end product came from, when purchasing new Nike's do you stop and think that maybe some kid in Bangladesh was forced into child labour to make the pair you are going to buy. Or how many Chinese people are suffering while making iPhones.

Applies to most products to be honest, and I don't think everyone put's in a thought of where the actual product came from, or how many people were hurt in the process, or forced to make the item. Or how big companies push their statuses and demand you to do something for a fraction of the price.

With this kernel, devs proved what the issue was and a mod stepped in.
[Galaxy S II General] Areg8_6:
yes i care about end product and NO that's not the same as saying "I'm ok with child labor, as long as I get my shiny new Nikes!".

i'm not a developer ... so YES i care about END product!