yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
Can't lie, I am tempted. :D. If I do, ill wait at least until everything is done here and we can see the different mod options n solutions. We have someone else who opened it up now...that's like 4-5 people now..lol

What have we doneee.....lmao
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] RipplingHurst:
If the idea was to replace the stock antenna, shouldn't we be thinking of the type of cable (impendance) and grounding? Isn't the back plate ground only (not part of the antenna?), so it should be "isolated" from it (like it is on the PCB).
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Ride525:
What if the WiFi Antenna was connected to the case?

Earlier I tested my Prime with WiFi Analyzer. Back facing the router gets about 10 dBm weaker signal than with front towards the router. Another posted after me, and got similar results, back facing router was 10-15 dBm weaker than front facing router.

So.....this got me thinking, based on this thread...what if the aluminum back was connected to the WiFi antenna?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] clackity:
Aww, crap monkeys. My feeling all along was that it was primarily the back cover that was causing the problems. After all, why would Asus give up on this beautiful all aluminum back design for the TF700T. Not to mention that even Apple, known to put form over function, located their antennas behind the plastic logo, or behind a plastic strip. Hopefully theres some other explanation, but this is the test I've been waiting for, and it doesn't look good.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] mystkrh:
I have a GPS repeater in my hanger at work, and I placed my transformer prime right under the unit with my phone in that spot all gps signals are ~50 in GPS tester. You can see in the pictures one is ok, I personaly think there is an AGC problem in the GPS receiver, and to test it I padded the signal with a anti static bad (we use this method to troubleshot gps antennas on aircraft) and when I did that you can see the 2nd photo of the best signal I think anyone has ever seen on a prime.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] aznmode:
Does the copper surface on the gps antenna show any indication that the pogo pin is making contact with it at all? how much contact is necessary? Maybe if the pogo pin had flat tip then it should have more surface contact.

Or if it is making enough contact then maybe its the gps antenna that is bad.

EDIT: Just say jupppos post...I guess that answered my question lol. Damn it.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] junrider:
AGC? whats that?

Did you take the prime and stick it in an antistatic bag?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
That video is hilarious....saved to favorites. Thnkx
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] clackity:
So you attenuated the repeater signal and got better S/N?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] junrider:
Hahaha i know... too bad I dont have my primes anymore.. At least its getting some actual positive progress.:D
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] RipplingHurst:
AGC, of course!!

Wait...WTF?!
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] dpwhitty11:
I know. I have plenty of things just hanging around to use for prying. My iron is back at my house though (away at college), and I don't exactly want to drive 3 hours to get it.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] clackity:
Automatic Gain Control. It applies gain to the incoming signal to try to achieve a predetermined (or optimal) signal strength. But anytime you apply gain, you increase noise. The trick is to improve the signal more than you increase the noise.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] aznmode:
Do you think drilling some holes on the 1/4 inch outer alum frame may help? I know this goes back to butchering it but I guess if someone was desperate enough this should work based on your findings.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Doktaphex:
Just did similar test and mine also loses signal as soon as the wire is put internally. For GPS solutions, looks like someone would need an external antenna attached.

I believe someone mentioned a fractal antenna a while back. You could conceivably have a flat antenna coming out of the top and stuck down on the outside of the Prime.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
That 2nd pic is the best prime results scree. Ever shown. Even better than some other comparable tablets pics that have been posted. What do you exactly mean by an AGC problem in the GPS reciever?

Edit: I saw the meaning. Thanks for this new insight also as far as GPS goes.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] soulctcher:
I don't know enough about these things, but what about soldering the wire to the backplate to use it as the antenna?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] aznmode:
What's also interesting is looking at anandtechs image of the antenna, there is nothing in front of it but the glass screen. So in theory signal should come in from the front. Are these antenna uni directional? What if the antenna was flipped 180? As far as the wires test. Can you remove the antenna out all together and just the coil of wire sit in its place so the wires can get reception via front?

http://images.anandtech.com/doci/5286/_DSC8228_575px.jpg
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Ride525:
+1

I was wondering the same thing about 10 posts above.....

Using WiFi Analyzer, I get a WAY stronger signal with the front facing the router, compared to the back facing the router.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jupppo:
Dont't think so. Even when the cable was in the case, but the case was not entirely closed (2mm open) the signal got very bad. The only solution I see is putting the cable outside, but that of course looks pretty nasty.

Then I rather use GPS therering with my phone.

---------- Post added at 07:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 PM ----------

Backplate is grounded and even if it were not, you need to have the right resitance and length to get the signal effectively.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] soulctcher:
Sorry for duping your thought...I missed your post. I tossed a thanks your way though for the dupe.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] killermojo:
I posted this to reddit to drum up some more exposure, the findings here need a wider audience!

http://www.reddit.com/r/asustransfo...da_member_finds_way_to_tear_apart_prime_test/
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] soulctcher:
Oh well...I thought it was worth an ask. Thanks.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] RipplingHurst:
So after a cursory reading on AGC, it seems that automatic gain control is being using since people first start builting radios. So no black magic involved. So maybe I'm thinking ASUS fine tuned the TP AGC's with the back cover open, or in a lab similar to the hangar experiment posted above. Great results, but not reproducible in the real world, as it's obvious now.

If we could get the backcover to be part of the antenna, that would be great. But I'm thinking rerouting the antenna to the headphones would work. Could the headphone wires work as the antenna, similar to the alligator clips?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jupppo:
Its always worth to ask :)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] monkey10120:
its always the buyers and devs who find fixes for products before the manufacture does. lol

I really want to try this but ill wait until someone finds a way around losing the signal when the case is closed. Keep up the good work!
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] micaman:
anyone else with an open prime noticing the bad wifi board?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Wordlywisewiz:
Exactly my thought make a secondary connection to the headphone jack and then make a custom antenna

Someone flip over the antenna..

I know they put in dual wifi antennas but idk about gps.. I think its only going out the back...

Also we really should get this tablet to Adam the one who can work his magic and hardware mod it to get us some form of an unlocked bootloader without the asus method he could probably also figure out the antenna issue..
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
So far we've found out pogo pins sux..lol.

-the PCB seems like is flawed or has design flaws not completing the connection needed for better wifi reception(I'm guessing this might not be the case in people's prime who wifi works decent but who knows)

-GPS faults may actually lie in the AGC(Automatic Gain Control) of reciever. Backplate seems to be a factor as far as GPS goes. Reception is great when antennae on the outside. Once in the case closed it seems to be hampered by backplate. This is understandable since GPS signal alot more sensitive to weaker reception vs. Wifi.

-Seems as if we can overcome the wifi getting stronger reception with case closed but GPS will be more tricky.

-overall several different factors affecting wifi n GPS performance. Not just the pogo pins alone or the backplate alone. A deadly cocktail of signal hampering issues. Lets see how XDA overcomes this obstacle course Asus has left for us. Lmao
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Doktaphex:
Mine looks exactly the same as Erusman's, however I have a decent WiFi connection. I don't think that this is down to the AUX WiFi antenna either, as when I hooked up my testing wire to that while I had it open, it did absolutely nothing.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] clackity:
So your board is open between the antenna and the pogo pin contact pad?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] blinky44:
ok, now I understand what you were saying. A couple of comments, I see the comparison to the GPS and the wifi and yes the GPS is connected to the full path and the wifi is not. but the wifi is still connected to the path to the right, is there anything on the underside of the board, remember in today's world you can't see everything that might be layered into a board but for something this simple that seems like overkill. Otherwise that other path may have a different purpose like a ground. Kind of defeats the purpose from what I can visualize though. Also old guys like me can't tie our shoes anymore so could be I am clueless too. Again thanks for all the input.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Doktaphex:
Yup! It sure is, I think there must be more to it than this. If someone actually has one where there is a connection here then I'll be interested. :D
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] clackity:
No, the wifi antenna isn't connected to anything. If you follow the raised part of the board, it ends before the pogo pin contact pad. He verified this as well as checking for continuity on the back side of the board with a voltmeter. The antenna isn't connected to the pogo pin pad.

---------- Post added at 08:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 PM ----------

So you connect a wire to the pogopin, and still no improvement in signal? That's strange. But in any case, I agree with the OP when he says that this design has to be a mistake. Why would there be an antenna without a connection to anything?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] 1SiK1500:
Intresting turn of events on this. I am still within my return period (BB) maybe i should give mine a crack..

I wish someone would just offer a nice plastic or carbon fiber replacement cover.

On another note. would the grounded out alum back plate have a negative effect on any signal if it were not properlly phased? I know everyone says its grounded but even grounded circuits put out a slight magnetic field just like wire does. ??
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Doktaphex:
If I connect to the pogo pin where the dodgy antenna is, I get a massive change. It's when I connect to the WiFi AUX pogo pin that nothing changes.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] clackity:
OH, Ok, I was mixing up the antennas. So that could mean that the aux antenna is already connected properly. But the main wlan antenna isn't, correct?

Edit: Actually, I guess if the Prime is opened up enough to connect wires, then the pogopins for both wlan antennas aren't in contact with the antenna circuits, so there should be a substantial change to reception for both.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
I would think we would need to find out how n when the Auxiliary wifi antennae works n activates. Does it run simultaneously with primary antennae or does software somehow switch between the antennas based on positioning of tablet to signal or whatever? Or maybe which ever one receives the stronger signal it uses...best scenario would be both to work in unison for the best reception possible from all angles. Software would govern that wouldn't it?

Just throwing stuff out there that came to mind ;)

---------- Post added at 02:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------

I would think so but even him connecting wire to Auxiliary should've showed some sort of change. Especially if the main one showed a massive change. :confused:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wgr73:
This was going to be one of my tests. Good job, more test data! So we can assume the back is shielding the signal. The next thing to look into is getting an external antenna (and keeping the sleek look of the prime), which could mean wiring up to the headphone jack (small isolation circuit so no noise is introduce onto the audio line) or possibly even using the dock at the bottom....something that has its eye outside the aluminum. Man I need to be home!!

The back plate should be ground.

A GPS repeater and/or ADC is not the solution/issue if one is able to get good signal by moving the antenna outside of the case. That is a nice thing to have right next to you though :D

Yes, it needs a connection to something outside of the prime (something that has a window outside of the back plate). My thoughts are the headphone jack, dock connector (maybe find a pin that is NC), possibly even the camera. Further testing would tell.

Yes :) There would need to be a small circuit to ensure no noise is introduced on the line but that shouldn't be an issue. Maybe even a small diode/capacitor/resistor combo.

Last resort would be to drill a tiny hole in the back and cover it with plastic (think like apple did with their logo, but smaller). I know nobody wants to start chopping up a nice tablet tho. I would have a hard time doing that. ASUS would have to fix this first
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] hknsckn:
I've just checked those "internal catches" and yes, they're clearly locking something but I couldn't realise in which position they lock the backplate, and which position they release it.

Let me explain what I saw,

2 small holes for a tiny screw driver, that's okay 'till now,

And an arrow only on the right side, that shows the sliding direction. I was surprised actually, they forgot to lock one of them, that left me out of service. :D

Here is my question, on which position they release back plate? While seeing the arrow, or not? :confused:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Doktaphex:
I had no arrow, however, if the screen is facing you, you slide them LEFT to release them.

EDIT: After just releasing one, I see the arrow. It is pointing in the locking direction. :D
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Wordlywisewiz:
Interesting....
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] 3rdamention:
My Wifi appears great, and my GPS worked one time, one night, in the middle of my living room after trying to connect to GPS for about 30 minutes. It has never worked before that, or since.

So yeah, my GPS is totally non existant and was basically dead on arrival.

I wonder if some of your findings are why my GPS will not work? Thanks so much for your hard work.

Did you have any light bleed on your screen? Opening it up, putting it back together, did it fix any lightbleed issues (maybe bezel to tight)?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] killermojo:
Being able to adjust the screen for light bleed would be amazing!
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] RipplingHurst:
I just used a plastic pointy stuff into that hole, and i can lock and unlock the thing at will. :-) now what?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] RipplingHurst:
Now im wondering if we couldjust unplug the camera and use that opening where the wires would end. I could easily sacrifice the camera or the flash for such.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Wordlywisewiz:
Great idea
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Skullmonkey:
Eh. Depends. I have an Evo with ICS on it. Currently, only the back camera works. Front and camcorder don't on it. I would most likely be using my TFP (once it gets in since I had to return mine QQ) to be taking pics and video.

I'm just hoping nothing is wrong with my new TFP.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] micaman:
What about covering the pcb's with a Magnetic shielding film with small holes/cut-outs for the pogo pins???? Somehow need to protect the antenna from the effects of the backplate.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] 1SiK1500:
After these results are you considering "exacto knifing" the top two inches off? lol :p
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] clackity:
I think when people are referring to the backplate problem, they mean that it's stopping too much of the signal from getting to the antennas. I'm not sure what you're implying the problem is based on this post?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] braingravyuk:
Got a Q for someone who is clued up on electronics (I'm not :P).

If one of WiFi antenna isn't connected due to the defective PCB and thus relying on the sole remaining antenna, would that account for the issue when Bluetooth is in use? I presume it uses the same antenna for it or am I completely out on that?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Doktaphex:
I've made a quick video of opening up the Prime and Closing it the easiest way. It's uploading to youtube at the moment, and I'll put up a link when it's available to watch.

OPENING THE PRIME:

[YOUTUBE]cd8DGJ5xnvo[/YOUTUBE]

CLOSING THE PRIME:

[YOUTUBE]85XDbLASDbI[/YOUTUBE]
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] micaman:
That's what I am trying to get my head around. I am not an electrical engineer by any means but looking at this pic http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=22037465&postcount=7 and thinking to somehow isolate the antenna from the backplate. The antenna is already pressed against the glass, no? So my question to someone in the know is..Does the back plate cause interference to the antenna or just limit the signal? Does that even make sense?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Pubnum:
You guys think Asus really doesn't know about this already? I'm sure they've spent 100 hours for every 1 on here trying to diagnose the issue, plus they've had all december to work at it.

Of course they know about the contacts and the aluminum back. So what do they do? They increase their quality control to ensure the pogo pins connect to the antenna, and they remove GPS from the list because the issue is MORE the backplate than the pogos. Thats why people are getting good WIFI signals now with the BC and C1s

It's not easy to alter a manufacturing line, and I'm definitely NOT defending ASUS here. But you guys must be naive to think asus doesn't know what the real problem is. After all, they developed the thing and we're a bunch of kids with plastic tools.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] clackity:
My understanding was that it just blocked signal. I don't think a grounded piece of metal could cause any other kind of interference. The antenna is already electrically isolated from the backplate.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] micaman:
Got it..makes sense now. Thanks
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] clackity:
I agree that Asus probably knew about these issues before anyone, but I think you're missing a very important point. Now, Asus knows that WE know.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] RipplingHurst:
I agree, they know about it already. They just don't know how to fix it quickly and cheaply.

In the car industry, they do a recall. Sometimes they're forced to do it, even when there's no need for it (Eg. Toyota Throttle pedal recall). But they do it, and it costs billions. I doubt in this case it would cost Asus more than 10Million (eg. promising new TFs down the line for those who aren't happy). But they won't do it, if they can get away with it.

Exactly.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] killermojo:
While this is completely true, what these guys have done is shed light onto the problems ASUS have known about for quite some time. The level of interest seen here is by no means limited to this thread- this is the kind of thing tech blogs love.

It's all about creating pressure so ASUS gets around to modifying those production lines :D
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Erusman:
This thread has gone viral! lol

Thanks guys for all the kudos! The coolest thing is people are actually starting

to open their primes now and find out what is going on!

Hopefully some other peeps with electronic background can start taking a look

at what is going on. I just have a laymans education when it comes to

electronics.

Congrats to the guy who uploaded a youtube video of opening the prime!

When I get time here i will try and solder those pogos to the copper contacts.

Close the shell and see how much of a difference wifi and GPS are.

(or if someone has it open feel free to post here with your progress!)

One thing is for certian. That PCB of the Left side Wifi is flawed. Never made

a connection. So that is why so many primes wifi suck. Only secondary

antenna on right side was working. Asus knows what primes (serial numbers)

have the flawed wifi pcb. They need to issue a press release and statement of

such! Its only right.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] clackity:
So was there some glue or double sided tape holding some things together; at least when you first took it apart?

Edit: And one other question. Did you find any tamper indicators?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Pubnum:
If we understand how the S/N nomenclature goes, I have a feeling we'll be seeing much better primes with the C2 and C3 batches. Alot of this stuff didn't start becoming a problem until the prime started getting into the hands of more people (the BC batch) and by the time things got moving, C1s were already in the manufacturing line.

I really believe ASUS knew about by the end of december. Kudos to the post who quoted me that said that "Now Asus knows that we know". Definitely! you can bet someone is going to open up a C1/C2 and check this stuff out.

Oh by the way, TF300 anyone? I bet they aren't using pogo pins :D

OH AND FIX THE BLOODY BACKLIGHT BLEED...JUDAS PRIEST
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Doktaphex:
I added credit to you and a link to this thread. SHould have done that in the first place. :D

There are bits of double sided tape at each corner and also where the charging port is.

The only tamper indicators that I can see would be if you did not undo the latches holding the bottom together and snapped off the tops.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] thomslik:
I don't think they care as they already have your money.

Apparently that's working. I'm sure everyone has seen this thread about the TF300:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1477118
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Pubnum:
Almost, except that they have a 1-year warranty...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] clackity:
They don't have my money. I returned mine due to wifi/gps issues. And I think people informed by this thread will be more likely to do the same, which is why this thread is so important.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Pubnum:
We should join the occupy wall-street movement.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] corduroytrees:
Great thread and great work to all. I have zero GPS satellites and really weak wifi (BC serial #) and finally got a call back from Asus today. I've just now gotten my RMA # and shipping info, but I'm hesitant to factory reset and send it to them when it seems like someone here may figure out a fix first.

Decisions, decisions.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] RipplingHurst:
:confused:

So we should start peeing on the streets now? :eek: We're now more enlightened, not less, so...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] samg77:
Wait for the release of the new TF700 which has the back with the plastic strip, and attempt ordering the back as a spare part. Alot better than ghettoifying your current one.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] clackity:
Yeah, I would have to agree. I'm not a big fan of that movement.