yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] buxtahuda:
As it should, being of the same base material as our backplates there lol

I've just now thought of that (slow huh), but that's probably exactly what our backplates and trim are doing: just bouncing every signal inside the tablet around like light refracting (been a few years, correct terminology?) in a diamond or whatever.

Can't wait to see the effects of the copper shielding. Could put a layer of that, then place the external antenna over all under a skin/case on the Prime?

I just got my Tyco antenna in, got 4 of them. Now I'm trying to decide how to proceed, whether or not to write them off (since I'm thinking form factor here) and just put them aside as parts, then pursuing either retractable antenna, proper separation of existing antenna from noise, or just flat-out return and wait for the upcoming models. Really don't want to do the last one, but it's still an option for a week or so still.

Wasn't someone talking about soldering a pin into existing connectors to get a proper connection to the test points? Did this yield anything, or were the points useless? I'd like to leave the pogopins in place if at all possible.

And I can see the finger/RF outlook of it, but the shim method did increase my connectivity. But again, it didn't for some people; so as is par so far with the Prime it looks like multiple things seem to be colliding to create a nice, unique range of issues.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] dpwhitty11:
Can someone identify the location of the bluetooth module? I don't know how the antenna for that works, like if it behaves like the wifi/gps ones do or not, and I want to tinker with that as well.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] RipplingHurst:
I don't get how aluminum shielding differ much from copper shielding, can you elaborate?

what about coating the back plate with liquid rubber, like those used for isolating connections/circuits. Its about $5 for 5 oz, you'd need probably 15-20oz of the thing, but it would make for a thick, rubbery surface all over the backplate. Would that help curb that parabolic antenna rf reflector behavior that the backplate seems to have?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] me-ayman:
if we open the asus prime is there any way to lose the warranty?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] killermojo:
I just looked at your other thread where you have pictures of it already open, it looks as though the slider tabs at the bottom are intact so you should be okay.. I mean opening it DEFINITELY voids warranty but it's a case of whether or not the monkeys at the ASUS repair facility can tell.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] buxtahuda:
This ^^^

Just be careful. It's easy to scratch the black paint on the tabs, but you should be fine.

I actually tried prying mine apart without unlocking the tabs, and I really couldn't... Maybe if I didn't know what reasonable force is with these electronics, but it'd be a hell of thing to actually break them. Seemed to me the screen would break before they would.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Doktaphex:
Even though we all know that I have opened my Prime several times, I can honestly say that the paint on the tabs was scratched simply from docking and undocking the tab to the keyboard long before I had even dreamed of opening it. So they can't use that as a comeback to say it's been tampered with.

Just sayin'.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Thenits:
I have opened and closed my Prime in excess of 20 times with no ill effect. I have soldered onto the antenna pcb so my gold contact is now silver soldered....can't help that. re copper versus aluminium...probably no difference but copper will ground better than aluminium foil...rf will probabaly bounce off it just as well (ie waveguide theory) but I am deseperate to try anything. Humour me...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Norcalz71:
So is another working theory now that the backplate is merely reflecting all the noise from components in the prime back into the antenna?

Leaves us with:

1) Backplate shields/blocks/absorbs the exterior, incoming wifi/bt/gps signals, thus a strong signal never reaches the antennae

2) Backplate is generating its own RF field/noise/interference that is reaching the antennae. A strong enough incoming wifi/bt/gps signal IS reaching the antenna, but they are being drowned out by the noise generated by the backplate

3) Backplate is reflecting the noise that is generated from other components in the prime and sending them right back over the antenna, drowning out an otherwise strong-enough incoming wifi/bt/gps signal with noise.

OR it is some combination of the 3?

I still do not have a prime in hand, partly because of these issues, but the thread and caught my interest. Some thoughts for isolating the issue.

1) Test with a wire/jumper attached to the antennae contact points and run it outside and far away from the case (this is what has been done and functioned extremely well, correct?)

- A free and clear antenna seems to do well

2) Test with wire/jumper attached to antennae contact points but contained within the prime re-assembled (also tried and produced poor results, correct?)

-Even a "better" antenna with a good connection seems to suffer inside

3) Test with wire/jumper attached to the antenna contact points and run outside of the casing, but put the wire as close as possible to the exterior of the backplate (has this specifically been done? if so, what was the result?)

-If signal is vastly improved but the wire antenna is very close/resting on the backplate on the outside, then we can probably assume the backplate is not generating a field/interference of its own since it would still cause signal degradation with the wired antenna so close

4) Test with a wire/jumper attached to the antenna and the inards removed from the backplate (but still running) and the antenna wire under/within the backplate, if this is even possible can't entirely tell from the pictures.

-If you place the antenna wire under the backplate without the other components there and get a good signal, it is likely the other components generating noise that is reflected by the backplate.

#4 might not be doable, the others should though.

I'm no antenna expert so one thing I am wondering is this: If we assume excess noise is being generated and that is the culprit (so external signals get in past the backplate, they are just drowned out by noise), then the solution is to shield the antenna from the excess noise, whether is is produced by components in the prime or by the backplate itself.

However, if we shield the antenna from interference, won't that also shield it from the desired gps/wifi/bt signals? If you're in one room and someone from the next room over tries to talk to you, but the neighbor downstairs is blasting their stereo, you can soundproof your room. But now that it is soundproof, not only have you blocked the noise, but you can't hear your friend in the next room either.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jchipper:
First off Thenits, just for the record I have read Every Single post in this thread yes all 90+ pages, been following for quite some time now. and I am also interested in some possible EMF absorbing material see the rest of my post

anyway I did some testing of my own tonight,

Test 1 - took a piece of Copper plate about 3" square, soldered a wire to it and attached the other end with a clip to the GPS pogo pin, got a gps lock, Then I decided to touch the copper plate to the Aluminum backplate and as soon as I did that boom the GPS signal was gone seperate the two and have signal again so the backplate is for sure causing some sort of interference problem. I have yet to figure out what the difference is between alum or copper.

Test 2 - when I used the same 3" Square plate mentioned above and did the same test with the Wifi i had great signal and the signal did not change when I touched the blackplate or not. so interestingly enough the Aluminum did not seem to make a difference in Wifi reception only the GPS

Observation,- there appears to be a sponge like material that is right where all 3 of the small copper antennas are, at first I thought it was to keep them from making contact with the alum back but when I did a continuity test it shows that there is continuity through the sponge, has anyone noticed that? so it seems that the way it is designed the copper antenna's are connected to the backplate

through the sponge.

Test 3 - looking at the prime right side up on the right hand side below the headphone jack there is a spot that I think could be used to mount an antenna under the glass, I tried it but my copper was a bit to thick, and as soon as i closed the prime up I lost GPS when I cracked open the case then I had signal, so my theory is that, that location is a good location for the GPS antenna but all the aluminum around it is causing interference.

Test 4 - I also ordered one each of these http://www.taoglas.com/antennas/GPS-GLONASS_Antennas/Internal_GPS_-_SMT_Loop_Antennas/ tried them both in different configurations and didn't seem to help any

So I found these online http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...Electronics/Home/Products/EMIEMC/EMIAbsorber/

and I ordered (3M™ EMI Absorber AB-5010 (.1 mm) it is supposed to be here Friday, so I'll do some testing over the weekend with it, maybe sandwich a thin piece of copper between the two under the glass and try that and see if it acts as a better antenna, we'll see. or just some basic shielding in the GPS area.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] pileot:
an easier meathod: Perhaps use the EMI absorber on the BACK of the case, then run a wire from the pogo pin near it, maybe cover the back then an inch or so in coil a wire as an antenna, see how it effects the issue of the interference caused by the back of the prime.

I too have considered trying to keep the prime running as i remove the back plate but it would be a lot of work and i really dont want to wreck my prime just to test a theory, then have to put it back together again, especially without anything like the EMI absorber to use to try to fix the problem. I will closely watch what your doing, this is good stuff.

I too am glad to see this thread back on track, perhaps OP should be a little more vigilant in updating every day? Or mayhaps there should be another thread where OP would take the good stuff from every day and bring it to the front just so the same questions are not asked and answered a thousand times, i know noobs to the thread are not going to read 100 pages of content...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Ride525:
And this is the OP's job, just why? :confused:

The OP might be too busy modding and with other stuff....:D
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] pileot:
And this is the OP's job, just why? :confused:

The OP might be too busy modding and with other stuff....:D[/QUOTE]

Because the first post is the post that everyone reads. After that, the next few posts on the first page then lots of people just hit reply and ask their question that was asked a hundred times before. Having the FAQ and answers on the first post will relieve the needless questions. Work for the OP, yes, makes everyones life easier, yes. Mayhaps to be done in a new thread? who knows.

That or have even more people post about how they are having issues opening their prime again, how do they move the tabs, etc. (derp)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] ClevaTreva:
Interesting. My own experiments seem to suggest that the backplate is not shielding the signal (option 1) so much as re-transmitting noise from other components inside the TP. As such, on mine at least, a DIY antenna has no major benefit inside the TP when closed, or even when near the back if held outside. But away from the back it works great. The back cannot generate its own noise as such, it must be option 3, but it is very localised.

On a different thread, http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=22552251&postcount=56, this guy placed (carefully) a screwdriver over the glass in front of the internal GPS antenna. It worked! Presumably, all he has really done is to create a 'hole' in the interference field that the back is presumably making (made of steel it will have some sort of magnetic field, yes?). I shall be home in about 4 hours and will give this a try. I have one of those 2.4GHz high gain antennae designed to boost router signals, that has a magnetic base.

I'll be back.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] chivas228:
Post your results in that thread too! If it works, we might have found a solution without opening the prime. Wonder if it helps wifi too.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jaydubbbbs:
Admittedly i don't own a prime but was interested in it and finally got to play with one and noticed the compass (if there is one) seemed completely inaccurate. I work with power tools that have lots of aluminium and they can pick up a wicked static charge. I was curious if anyone tried touching a copper wire to the back then gounding it on something like a faucet or even into your lawn to discharge. Total noob here but seemed like this is only just being touched on. Also with copper an aluminium touching you get that dissimilar metal electrolosis i believe. My expertise is not in electronics my hands are too clunky
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jchipper:
Do you mean Cover the entire Back outside of the prime? or inside back

my goal is to figure out some way to get GPS to work from modifications Inside the prime no holes etc...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] leppie:
I think you got the wrong type :(

Both GPS, BT and WIFI are in the Ghz range, so the AB70x0 looks more logical.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] ClevaTreva:
No effect whatsoever. Still no GPS indoors. Outdoors is variable. It says it is accurate to about 48 feet, BUT, if I load maps my location jumps by as much as 400 yards and is never withing 100 yards of being correct. I can typically see 10-14 sats, but almost all with barely any signal, and typically 5-6 of those sats to lock, just, but jumping from one to the other.

What I DO notice is that if I hold the TP with my left hand only, the signal is better. With both hands, it gets worse, and the closer to the GPS antenna my right hand is, the worse it gets, until, with my hand there (under the TP holding only the back) no signal at all. That suggests that it is the back that has a localized dampening effect, amplified by my hand if my hand contacts that part of the back where the signal emanates from, which appears to be the antenna itself! Is the GPS antenna itself creating a field that the back amplifies and thus blocks the signal?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] mopar400:
Interesting:

From your test #1 and observation, I would think removing the sponge like materials from the GPS antenna, and making sure it is isolated from the back plate would help reception.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] pileot:
Yes, cover the back and put a wire from the Pogo pin near the covered back plate. If you notice a severe and sudden loss of signal as you move the wire to the back plate you know the 3m is not going to do the job, no use wasting lots of effort inside the prime.

Make sense or am I out to lunch? Let us know what happens (pics too)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] slayvus:
Doesn't opening the Prime void the warranty of the device?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] buxtahuda:
Technically I guess... But how will they know when the only tamper-resistant part is made to be latched/unlatched by them as well?

Reasonably, no. Just don't do anything destructive or noticeable to it and you'll be fine.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Doktaphex:
Don't leave any fingerprints on the internals either.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] pileot:
Really? Like 8 times this question was asked... Not to be an ass but what do you think?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] buxtahuda:
Really? I mean, I'd go over it with a glass and remove any if I needed warranty work done, but you think they'd actually notice? Have they noticed on some?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jchipper:
it might be, but on the other hand I don't necessarily want to absorb all the signals that I am trying to use either so it's kind of a catch 22, I guess I'll find out soon enough if it works or not. if it works sorta but not perfect then maybe time to try the AB70,

---------- Post added at 06:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:06 PM ----------

I'll give that a shot after i try the 3m EMF absorbing material

---------- Post added at 06:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:08 PM ----------

Not sure putting the 3m on the outside of the prime is going to help much with inside interference, I would think that the 3m would need to be between the alum back and the GPS/Wifi Antenna's. Worth a try anyway :)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] pileot:
That's the idea, get an antenna outside the prime (bit o wire should do, attached to a Pogo pin), away from the prime should give a baseline, see if you can have it right against the prime and still get a GPS lock and see how much the wifi drops...

Like I said it will be faster and easier to do this all outside the prime rather than try to put the material inside, especially if it doesn't work.

when you eventually pull of the back plate remember to take lots of pics
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Yakandu:
Any word on that retractil antenna? i was thinking about an old radio retractil antenna, same as i posted on other thread, but i think here is more usefoul:

something like this but from inside... when you are away from router just get that antenna out and.. tada!
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] aznmode:
Just wanted to add to more "how to open" videos...I know kinda redundant but more the better IMO.

All you really need is a credit card you no longer use, piece of cloth (I used a screen cleaning cloth), and torx screw or in my case a long thin hex screw. Again starting from the bottom is VERY VERY important. Did I say VERY important yet??

This video was supervised by an android borg to ensure proper procedure =)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEdpukpjdcE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[YOUTUBE]TEdpukpjdcE[/YOUTUBE]
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] buxtahuda:
No, and I personally won't start actual testing on the idea for another week or two. I at least have to let me return window die out or get used before I go drilling :D

I've seen pictures of some I'd like to use, but damn it if I can't find any kind of repository or store just selling tons of retractable antenna lol guess I'll have to find a decent one already in something and just jank it

I've got my Tycos though, so I'll be playing with them soon, once I'm done being sick and genuinely lazy. Not much point other than to play since Erusman, aznmode, and everyone else is pretty much confirming the backplate as the major player here.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] ham67high:
now that i have been taking my ipod touch apart i see that the back of it has a metal back just like our TF prime, doesnt it? and the touch has no problem with wifi hmmm
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] buxtahuda:
Still lots of plastic along the sides though. It's not a unibody metal design, not ones I've worked on at least..
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] opentoe:
I know how to make my Prime operate perfectly. Here is what you need to do:

Go outside.

Stand on your left foot only

Say your ABC's out loud and grump like a monkey

Turn on your tablet

Rub your stomach

Stand on your right foot only

Caress and squeeze Prime like a tender woman

Turn in a circle three times

Yabble some words

So, after this your Prime should work just great, even with BT and Wifi at the same time.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] galluccib:
I need some advice

Okay folks I need some advice…

I have been reading the thread and decided to doing some testing. First run remove stock antenna's (Wi-Fi & GPS) and then removes all three of the pogo plugs. I soldered three wires (about 12 inches each) on both Wi-Fi and GPS. Great results - Wi-Fi 37/32Mbps and GPS 14 Sats within 5ft range. Then drilled three small holes and ran the wire out the back and closed everything up. After doing so I noticed Wi-Fi dropped by 50% and GPS by 60%. Hmmm

Sat back in said well the warranty is gone so let have fun…. That’s what it's all about right? :-)

Here is what I have done and the rest of my plans…

1. Took everything out of the prime

2. Drilled three 2 inches holes (Pic below)

3. Took the dermal and cleaned the holes up

4. Sanded the back (Will explain why below)

5. Applied resin to fill all three holes

6. Drill three small holes to insert the rivets in the cut outs

7. Sand again - get ready for airbrush (I'm going to have the back of the prime airbrushed to match my hellraiser sandrail - pic below)

8. After clear coat start putting everything back together… This is what I need advice on..

First question - The prime had both the Wi-Fi antennas connect to each other via the back so should do the dame when running the wire? My plan is to wire the left Wi-Fi antenna to the left rivet - the GPS to the middle rivet - the right Wi-Fi to the right rivet. Should I put a wire between the left and right?

Second question - Went to radio shack looking for shielded wire but all they had was insulated 30 Gauge wrapping wire (pic below). Will this work or does it have to be shielded wire? And what gauge? Can I just rap this wire or standard wire with aluminum foil and then electric tape?

Third question - Does the length of the wire affect the Wi-Fi single at all? By making this mod I'm adding 4 to 5 inches.

Last question - Was planning on using the rivet idea and was wondering if anyone else had a better idea.

Some of you are reading this thinking this guy is nuts…. Well it's all about having fun and I'm having a blast!!!
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] slugbug2010:
" Here is what I have done and the rest of my plans…

1. Took everything out of the prime

2. Drilled three 2 inches holes"

I don't know the answer to your questions, but I have one for you.

Does your Prime still WORK? :D

Glad you're having fun, I'm sure the airbrush work will be great (post pics when done). I don't get why your signals dropped after you ran the wires out the back though
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] galluccib:
I was thinking it had to do with the back.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] westcoastgeek:
With all the removed metal I'd be curious as to how your reception is without making any antennae mods, those resin filled holes should allow enough radio energy through to give the original attenae enough signal hopefully. I was thinking of doing something similiar with cutting a square out and filling it with resin.

Interested to see how this will work.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] RipplingHurst:
Yes, i agree, test it.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] pileot:
Ipod touch 2g and 3g had a black plastic window where the RF antenna was. Asus should have done something similar. the iPhone used an antenna that went AROUND the device instead of behind metal. One thing apple is good at is testing their devices for RF interference.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tshoulihane:
Q1 - Not necessary. It may help, maybe not. Whatever works best is fine.

Q2 - Ideally, you want to use 50 Ohm coax, designed for GHz frequencies. If it is used properly, with the screen connected, this acts like a pipe for the RF, so you would need some un-screened wire at the end, or a patch antenna. Since the distances are small, it's not strictly necessary to get the proper transmission line effect - again, experimentation is easier and more effective than modelling or accurate analysis.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] RoosterX:
I was thinking of cutting out two squares of the backplate, much like how Apple has done it, but to do that i need a solution to how i can get a hold of plastic covers that would fit perfectly and also look professional, any clues? How has Apple done it, are they glued in place?

But most of all i hope some Chineese company make backplates that are of good quality/fit so i can just swap them.