yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Norcalz71:
Which "this" are you agreeing with though? Its A, B, or A & B.

A) The Aluminum Backplate shields the signal IE its like putting on ear muffs that cancel out all the noise, your ears are the antenna and they can't hear anything. However when you move the ear muffs off your ears but still very near to them, you can hear everything.

or B) The Aluminum Backplate is like a set of speakers. If you get to close to them, your ears still "hear" someone trying to talk to you from the other room, but there is so much extra noise from the speakers you can't tell what they are saying. The speaker doesn't actually have to be a physical barrier to the signal to make so much noise that you can't hear, its just the proximity to that speaker (at a given volume) that interferes with your ability to hear other things.

Or its both, the signal both degrades from excess noise (B) AND it is physically blocked by the plate (A). In (A) there is loss of signal strength, in (B) there is addition of excess "other" signals.

If its (B), you either need to shield the noise emitting from the backplate or get the antenna far away (relatively) from the plate. If it's (A), you just need the antenna outside the plate but it can literally be stuck on the plate as close as possible to it. If its both, it has to be outside and the plate shielded or the antenna far away.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Laurentwb:
Sorry to insit but do you really mean that a piece of credit card is too thick to go where the red circle is on the following picture ?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] buxtahuda:
I just mean to say that a credit card is like three times as thick as the guitar pick I used, and that has caused my boards to raise up a slightly alarming amount.

The card in the picture I think Is also much thinner than a credit card.

I'm not saying it won't work. I'm just saying that things thinner than credit cards seem to be putting a lot of stress onto the PCB and the glue holding it...

Not any one in particular. I'm saying "this" is certainly where my thoughts are getting to and what I think we should be focusing on, all of them are a possibility at this point in time.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Doktaphex:
We need this:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/11/...t-thing-to-come-in-a-can-since-eas/#continued
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] buxtahuda:
Lol! Screw blocking the interference (if that's what it is). INTERFERE IT WITH MOAR SIGNAL!!!1

Sorry. Had to. That's real interesting though.

So, what is an oscillator? Would that record interference/signal/what?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Jesse6749:
Someone should come up with a plastic section piece that we could just epoxy on after cutting of about 2 inches off the top of the back plate, a mold could be made with the section that would be cut off. I think that may be the best solution to our dilemma.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Laurentwb:
What is on the other sideof this little plate with the wifi and gps antennas ?

I ask thi because it is the side exposed to the outside through the glass.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] buxtahuda:
Pretty much just plastic and glue... The copper tabs above are the antenna.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Laurentwb:
What about extending the copper tabs on that side ?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Jesse6749:
That is what I was thinking too, but from what I read it will be useless cause the aluminum back plate blocks most of the rf signals :o.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] buxtahuda:
You mean just so they kind of stick out between the back and the glass? This has been discussed, but not tried as far as I know.

Or do you mean just kind of tucking the antenna beneath the PCB? That wouldn't help as it's already on the bezel of the screen.

Or do you mean something else?

My Tyco antenna are in today! Guess I'll start playing around; my precision soldering gun has yet to be shipped :/ So no soldering yet, I'm not even going to try and use a regular gun.

Been looking at collapsible antenna. Not finding as much as I'd hoped.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Jesse6749:
I was thinking of soldering a larger piece of copper to the existing antenna that would extend sideways along the pcb, but not sure if it would help at all.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Laurentwb:
I meant the first you mentioned. I would give it a try if I knew how to make those copper tabs.

I like the idea of Tyco and also of this kind of transparent sticking antenna that someone on this forum found. However, I wonder where to place it because destroying the look of my Prime with external antennas is not an option.

I've spent the afternoon to open and close my Prime testing various options but no luck, no significant improvement.

Have a good day (already evening on my side of earth).
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] buxtahuda:
Oh ok. Well, I'm super-layman on all this, but usually whatever you use needs to be a certain length depending on the frequency (WiFi vs GPS vs BT) you're aiming for. Again, if I understand correctly, these copper tabs are actually loops at that desired length. Therefore all you could do is really increase the width, down the PCB like you say.

Also like you say, I don't know if this will actually help. Something is telling me not. Most of the issue is not necessarily anything to do with bad/cheap antenna design but more of the backplate murdering all signal within a 1/4" area around it. There's simply too much interference for even exceptional antenna to make a difference through that aluminum (and whatever else is helping it cause this issue - I still think it's more than just the metal).
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Laurentwb:
By the way : A question keeps coming up to my mind : When I move away from the router, I loose the download speed but not the upload speed. So clear that the download speed can be much slower than the upload speed.

How can that be ? Does it make sense to anyone ?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] buxtahuda:
One is receiving signal, the other is sending.

It's going to be a LOT easier to send a signal from something that's pushing signals away than it is to pull a signal in. Our cases are freaking satellite dishes with noise in them.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] fenturi:
I do not know much about building a WIFI, but I do know that to get by FCC they have to be low power (maybe why UK ones have fewer wifi issues?)

Anyway, with an unlocked rom be able to adjust voltage to the wifi?

Would more power up the "power"?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] chivas228:
Quick question: how thick does the antenna have to be? I was thinking about putting a hair thickness antenna to my GPS since that is the only thing not working (my wifi works great though) and snake it to the outside or leave it on the glue sticker strip so it would have a "home" and be functional and be outside of the aluminium case. Thoughts?

I was looking up those silly antenna stickers as seen on TV and God a site that did a scientific study showing how badly it actually interfered with radio signals.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Ride525:
Yes, I think what you saw about download speed changing at distance from the router, but upload speed staying the same is what most every body sees.

One person said upload uses smaller packets of data, so it's less affected by distance.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] barryflanagan:
Is it possible that one of the antenna is for tx and the other rx? I know some routers split rx and tx. Just a thought.

-Barry
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] :
Anyone tried WIFI TX POWER from the market? to increase their wifi reception
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Doktaphex:
well what are you waiting for?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] :
I wouldnt see a difference my wifi is fine but it may help others
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Ride525:
"Warning, Root Required"
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] :
Of course!
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Laurentwb:
I know someone answered that downloading is a more resource consuming action because there is noise in the signal, etc ... However, if the comment here up about packet size is right, maybe reducing the packet for download could bring a benefit.

Is it feasible ? (it is in Windows, I think)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] JoeJags:
Definitely NOT my area of expertise, but, does anyone know if this might work?.....what if you drilled a small hole, say a 1/4", and placed a thin rubber grommet in the hole, and put a rivet through the grommet......then solder to the inside of the grommet......this could keep a very thin and finished look to the outside, and maybe make the signal fully useable.......this COULD bypass all of the signal degradation caused by the back cover.......anyone have any idea if this would work?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Erusman:
Basically instead of wires coming out.. Have the rivet be the connection coming out? Well, I would say this is a nice idea to get the connections to the outside. But, I don't think you are going to improve the WIFI / GPS signal. But, I think i know what you mean. Keep the slender look.

Whenever anything .. wire, rivet, etc is back behind that aluminum plate it wont pull a good signal. Soon as you bring the tip of the wire 1/2 inch or more above or away from aluminium backplate you get full WIFI.

Good idea though. A simple way to get the connection to the outside. I been toying with that idea for awhile. Some sort of connection / plug you can just put wires or whatever into. However, just having the rivet coming out on its own wouldn't do much. AND you don't really need THREE holes drilled. All you need is one plug. Have your LEFT and RIGHT WIFI as well as GPS come out that one plug.

But, a plug idea is the way to go. That way you wont have wires coming out permanent. You could just plug a wire into it. (i.e. 1/8 stereo jack type plug that goes to ext. antenna.)

I am still trying to find a really good plug / connector that would be flush. NOT very much room in there to work with. If anyone has ideas that would be cool.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] RipplingHurst:
What if the hole is much bigger than a rivet? Say approximately the size of the Asus logo? If we could find a plastic cover strong enough to replace a good part of the back - like Apple did with the Apple logo in the iPad...

My first thought would be to route the wire to the camera hole, but that's would be the same as the rivet size.

What if would route the antenna - through the dock connectors - to somewhere under the keyboard or the track pad (plastic). Maybe anywhere in the keyboard could work, maybe the aluminum back in the keyboard is not subject to as much interference.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] JoeJags:
Gotcha......well I was hoping that maybe with the rubber BETWEEN the outer edge of the rivet and the aluminum back (and the same on the inside), that it would insulate and keep the backplate from interfering with the signal......oh well, was a thought......
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Erusman:
Not sure how big the hole would have to be. But, yes I understand where you are coming from. Just like Apple did on the IPAD. They have all their wires to the center of the apple logo. Of course their backplate is not as thick of aluminum as Asus used. It might, then might not work. Thats what this mod stuff is all about you just know what is going to work. And of course you are using your device as a guinea pig. :eek:

I don't know if you caught it but i was trying to edit my last post. But, I think the best idea is to have one hole. Then find a plug / connection that you can get all three connections out. (Left and RIGHT wifi and GPS). You just need to find a connection that would be small and flat. Could easily be removed many times. (i.e. stereo jack kinda plug).
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Erusman:
Good thought. And good idea. and who knows it might even work to some degree. And its a great idea to get the connection to the outside instead of wires... You could just solder on to the rivet. Or make a connection to the rivet.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Doktaphex:
You know, the more I think about it, the more I wish I had my dremel here at mine instead of at my mother's house. I'm gonna start looking in to easily shaped plastics, where I could literally take a block of plastic and shape it with various grinding bits so that I could first create the desired shape and then just cut that shape into the backplate.

It would have to look very cool though. I'm gonna rustle up some design ideas.

EDIT:

That's really the only possible cool looking shape, and doing this would weaken the hull integrity dramatically, but hey, I can dream can't I.

You could have any colour plastic that you wanted and even use some sort of lighting for it.

EDIT: Before anyone says anything, I know that I would have to take the entire thing to pieces. That is my intention.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Jesse6749:
After looking at your pic of the wifi and gps antenna pcb, I started to think of maybe soldering 2 strips of copper to the edge of the copper strips(antennas) and make them long enough to maybe help with the signal and leave the new strips so they would just stick out of the unit but insulated from the back plate when assembled and then I would just bend back the pieces that would stick out and I could cover it with some clear purple colored teflon tape that I have which is similar color to my aluminum back plate. I am just throwing ideas in my mind on how we could solve this problem.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] RipplingHurst:
I'm afraid that the type of interference generated by the back plate cannot be insulated by a rubber grommet in a small hole. It has to be an antenna wire grounded etc. It's not a dc type connection, but eletromagnetic stuff that may interfere with the antenna terminals if if there's no dc continuity.

I think you'd have to go with a big hole, maybe.

Or place the antenna in the keyboard (that's my plan for now), but Id have to open the keyboard first and see how it's like in there. Hopefully its a saner place for an antenna than the case.

Or maybe if we could use another thing as ground for the electronics and completely isolate the case from them, maybe the case wouldnt generate so much interference. So if there's three wires grounding the case, just cut them and tie them together...kind of crazy idea, but...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] RipplingHurst:
^^^ that would be my choice too, but the potential for disaster is big for a layman like me. IMHO, Aluminum worked for Apple...with the proper window...it should work for us too. If that doesn't work, then there must be some kind of short in that black plate...or something like it.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Erusman:
I am sure it would work. Worked well in original IPAD. IPAD2 has its antenna in the speaker grill area.

Placement? Under batteries, in center. Or it could be in the top left or right area. Might be easier under the batteries. It would definately be a task. But it would eliminate the need for any kind of external application. Plus it would keep your tablet looking sexy.

I actually seen my first prime show up here in yakima, wa. lol I seen one at the local BB tonight! Grey 32GB. It had the C serial serial on it. I tried WIFI on it in the store. There were no bars on it. :rolleyes: While right next to it was the original TF101 and it had two bars. :p
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] pileot:
Im not sure what your trying to say here.... we should put retractable antennas into the prime?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] buxtahuda:
That's pretty much what I'll be trying to do. In fact, the picture of the laptop brings to mind a good idea. Put a retractable antenna you can also turn how you like to keep its being there as least obtrusive as possible. I feel that so long as I can find a small enough antenna it could easily be run along the MoBo on the backplate (but insulated from) and go out a drilled hole which is lined in rubber.

What he's showing though is just a port to attach an antenna as needed I believe.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] dingdonggggg:
did anyone try shielding te back of the antenna

We have sort of an interesting thread going on at

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1492468

Any of you guys that have opened their Prime try shielding the back of the gps with RF blocking/absorbing material. For instance led foil or so.

My feeling is that inside the Prime it is mayhem with RF.

Maybe if we shield the back of the antenna leaving the front (display side) exposed would result in less RF interference from the prime itself.

I would be much obliged if someone would give it a try.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] G37:
I'm trying to open my prime to fix some lightbleed issue. however, the video shows a pop from the docking ports, and for some reason, I can't get it to do that. I need some help.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] buxtahuda:
Look down into your docking ports. You'll see little dots in the middle. You can use anything small and sturdy enough to stick in the dot and move a couple of sliding tabs. You move them to the right if the screen is away from you. To the left if the screen is facing you.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Thenits:
I tried all weekend ...different combos to try and shield the antenna from the noise from within....no luck! I can't even go into the different combos I tried as it would take me friggin hours to type it all up. foil, grounded not grounded close to the antenna away from the antenna, different antennas...its just a rf noise generator in there. no kidding as soon as I have a 1mm crack because i could not close it properly I get GPS signal...as soon as it is fully closed ...no luck. I am going spare (crazy!) trying to work this out. i am thinking of using some RF shielding tape next. It has me stuffed why some primes work and others do not....was there ever ANY hardware changes...motherboard, shielding etc?...I wish I had a working prime to compare. F8cken ASUS ..they could be like maybe dropping a few hints etc.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] junrider:
I hear a cellular phone with GPS activated on top of the prime where the GPS antenna is situated helps the prime's reception. :D
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Jesse6749:
I was tempted to open my prime, but for now I am going to hold off since my wifi works ok and the only non working component is the gps which I may never use anyway so maybe if Asus ever get off their asses!!!!! and fix the issue I may then send it in, but for now I am going to use it as is.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] dingdonggggg:
Thanks for trying.

Maybe wrap the whole antenna in RF shielding tape and then cutting a opening (window) where the GPS antenna is.

I am getting the impression that the Prime's wifi is somehow killing the GPS.

If you turn wifi off and then boost the GPS with a GPS Phone.

Then if you remove the phone the Prime can keep the sats.

But when you do the same with the Primes wifi on it seems like the sats die down faster like the wifi is smuthering it.

Any possibility of relocating the GPS antenna elsewhere in the Prime away from the wifi and maybe adding some extra shielding?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] galluccib:
Anybody by chance figure out what these two plugs are for?

Thanks,
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Doktaphex:
That was figured out way back in the early days of this thread. They are factory test points and don't help us really with much of anything.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tshoulihane:
You got that right. This is a thread about opening up your prime and playing with the innards. The thread you want is somewhere else...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] kemoschwabbie:
Seriously?

Okay, I am a noob to posting, not a noob that has not read every single posting in this thread, and contributed a few.

I included this information because variations of the phrase "Asus should acknowledge these problems" appears more than a few times during the now 89 pages of this thread.

Like many folks here that are frustrated I seriously considered popping the back off my TP and coming up with my own fix. AND like many folks I am outside the return window from my retailer and decided to risks the RMA process (for now). BUT I have decided to continue to watch this thread because the fact is that everyone's actions here are making progress.

Being a flamer-tard: NOT helpful.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Ride525:
kem,

there actually is a thread covering this very lawsuit...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] kemoschwabbie:
MCX Connector?

If you Google "MCX female jack flange deck mount solder RF connector" you can see a couple options of antenna mounts that may be able to be affixed directly to the aluminum back of the prime via rivets.

This then opens a whole host of off-the-shelf antenna solutions for both GPS antennas and wifi antennas. Though you could probably just solder a thin solid core wire to a male MCX adapter for effective results at much less cost. Just solder a wire from the GPS and wifi connection to the female connector interior post point on the inside of the TP and bam, plug and play exterior antenna options.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jchipper:
so i tried clipping a wire to the GPS pogp pin and was unable to see any birds, set it in the window for half an hr and nothing, any suggestions?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] dpwhitty11:
Did you use a copper wire?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jchipper:
no i used aluminum wire
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wgr73:
Use copper, you almost never want to use aluminum in electronics for this type of connection.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Thenits:
Good - discussion is back onto modifying. I do wish folk would actually read the thread and not get lazy looking for a quick fix. There are a lot of questions being asked that have been well and truely covered previously. Anyhow I am waiting on some RF tape and copper shielding to continue looking at shileding the antenna from within the 'Prime RF noise generator'. This has to be possible given exisitng technology, including cellular phones, where GPSs work quite well within a barrage of RF. Perhaps it is more difficult given the aluminium back case. RF design is somewhat black magic, so I wish we had some more folk willing to focus on this issue that are knowledgable in this area. Is this worthy of a new and specific thread?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tshoulihane:
I'd play, only I can't be bothered to risk taking mine apart whilst it still works well enough for me!

The best shielding is something resistive (to absorb the unwanted energy). A finger on the suspect component often works (might affect what's working, but shouldn't so long as it's dry). Pretty much anything inside the case might be radiating noise, or even oscillating when it shouldn't. Even the touch-screen might be the culprit.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Thenits:
THANKS! - I have stuck my finger in all sorts of places to help identify RF sources...in fact i had this theory that the reason why the squeeze tecnique inproved gps reception was because it somehow repressed RF. I do not think it was affecting the pogopin connection on the other end of the motherboard but may have provided a better ground somewhere. i have tried to shield the whole lower section of the prime by using an aluminium shield and the gps antenna connected to a flylead siting above it. still no good. I have just recieved some copper sheet that may have better rf absorption properties (I gree with your comment re resistive - I think the aluminum foil I was using just reflected the rf crap everywhere) .