yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] JoeSyr:
Hah well some people also just like to make everything social. I was recently home and running errands with my dad. We stopped at this one shoe store and while I pretty much ignored the greeters (always found those people sort of annoying in retail) and started walking towards the giant sign for Men's Shoes, he instinctively stopped to ask them where to go.

Now granted he's an engineer by trade and when looking technical something up his first stop is always manuals and documentation, but I've seen that effective personality type get harped on here because they just wanted to interact with *a person*.

I do think there's a few things that could be improved around here to make information easier to find (or perhaps better put, harder to miss). I'm used to it now, but I think the page layout is a bit noisy, visually. But I guess those are sort of top-level site design choices that are unlikely to change easily.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] adrynalyne:
Those who create the information and seek for it themselves get pissed off because the other types refuse to look at what might be in front of them, especially when someone spent their own time compiling the information. I myself have grown impatient with it. I just choose to ignore it. The information is out there. If I know it is out there and easy to find, I will not help. If someone needs genuine help and the information is not easy to use or find, I will help.

It might sound douchey, but the reality is, I've come to realize that I get angry easy with those who don't try to help themselves. By ignoring it, I avoid flames. I leave that for those with better personalities than I.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] Zepius:
stop sounding like a douche! (kidding :) )

the point of this thread really isnt the that toolkits are bad, its just all people use and have no idea what it actually does. then, when something breaks they scream in the QA section about "my phone is bricked and i used such and such toolkit".

search is super simple, but people are too lazy to do this.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] adrynalyne:
I myself don't care if folks use toolkits. What really gets me is like you said, folks don't know what the toolkit is doing or how.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] spencer88:
I agree. This thread has turned into a very interesting topic of two different types of personalities. I myself tend to fall under the "find out the information for myself" personality.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] El Daddy:
This is exactly what my thread is about. Not about me saying "toolkits brick phones" or "I'm criticizing toolkits and the people who use them."

I didn't say that in my OP and I also clarified some things in the first few pages.

The sad part is that I made this thread 4 months ago and things haven't really changed. I would say they have gotten somewhat worse. This thread was bumped recently because there were a bunch or failed OTA threads and it was determined the reason many peoples VZW OTA was failing was because of flashing back to "stock" with a toolkit.

If you want to use toolkits, be my guest. They are a great tool for getting the job done quickly and I have said it many times in this thread. However, if one does have a problem and they have no idea why, it's hard for anyone to troubleshoot when nobody knows where it went wrong.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] copkay:
Hammer, meet nail-head. So much THIS.

I see the same sort of thing on StackOverflow for programming issues, and I am just not interesting in helping people whose first response to a problem is to just ask someone else for the code to fix it. You can send them a link to a resource explaining exactly how to do something, and they're just not willing to do any work on their own to fix it.

I think that's primarily the issue here. I've used the GN toolkit myself for certain things (although honestly most things are quicker to just do at a command prompt if you know what you're doing -- fastboot oem unlock, anyone?) but there are definitely times when, for whatever reason, some toolkit process hangs in the middle of something, and you have no idea whether to close or wait it out. You may not even know where it stopped in the process. If you're at least familiar with the processes and how it works under the hood, it's not a big deal to finish it up manually, or revert what you've done.

I'm with Adrynalyne though, helping lazy people fix one problem is useless -- they'll just be back the next time they get in a bind and know nothing more than they did beforehand.

The problem isn't the toolkits, it's the people using them. ;)
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] dougxd:
My god......the holier-than-thou stink in here is thick. You don't like toolkits, don't use 'em. They're nice for some people while others don't care one way or the other. Many of these tools are the very command lines you all talk about knowing, but just typed for you instead. The main caveat that new rooters/romers need to be reminded of is that the moment you choose to root/rom your device you accept a certain degree of risk....period. No need to hate on people who use toolkits. They just need to know that by whatever means they choose to root/rom, it's a whole new can of worms once they make that choice.

Frankly, if they use a good quality tool that's proven to be successful, wouldn't you think that be preferred for newer people so as to further help reduce their chance of borking something up by skipping a step or typo'ing something?

I agree....the problem is NOT the toolkits. However, the problem isn't all the people using them, only a few who start the blame game when something goes wrong. In those cases, try to help them or don't. No need to rub their face in shyte though. We all started with zero knowledge of this stuff at one point. Give them the chance to learn like we were given as we tried things, broke stuff, learned from it, and tried again.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] copkay:
I think if you pay attention, you'll realize we're all open to helping people who are open to learning. It's the prevailing attitude of "just STFU and tell me how to fix it" that is the real problem.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] dougxd:
Yup.... then again there are those in here (XDA and other forums on the whole) who tell users that screw something up to go jump off a bridge or something because they failed to RTFM or whatever.

EDIT*** I completely agree with you! <"Willing to learn something new, noob? Great, we're willing to help ya!">
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] copkay:
Haha, true. Then again, I suppose if there is an FM to R, then they certainly SHOULD RTFM before asking. :D
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] adrynalyne:
This...and there are certainly a plethora of FM(s) out there.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] harveydent:
wait, there's a FM?!? my pappy never told me about the FM!!! :D
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] adrynalyne:
Furry Muff :p
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] @rbiter:
I thought fm was fluffy muffy.

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[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] adrynalyne:
Different dialect for the same creature :D
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] RogerPodacter:
What about us people who know how to use fastboot well, but are lazy and want to quickly root so we use toolkits just to get it done quicker.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] slayr76:
Some people live a hectic lifestyle with work ect an need something like a root app to get them setup quicker, especially if you have multiple android devices.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] adrynalyne:
Thread summary:

There is no issue with those who use toolkit, merely those who can't be bothered to learn what the toolkit is doing and how it works.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] imnuts:
If you don't have time to root your phone without a toolkit, then you don't have time to modify your phone IMO. It doesn't take that much longer to do it manually than it does with the toolkit. And if you know how to do things without the toolkit, you save yourself hours of problems in the future.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] adrynalyne:
This. I have stayed stock many a time when my life didn't permit me time to learn what I was doing, or had no time to fix it if things went wrong.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] slayr76:
I used mskips toolkit 6 months ago on my galaxy nexus 2 days after getting it an not one issue , an I haven't unrooted or gone back to stock since all that time ago an I never read a single tutorial because I haven't yet had a problem.The only thing that took time was getting adb drivers to work so I used pdanet.exe to install the drivers onto my pc lol.I have flashed every rom an kernel combination imaginable with this device, same with my galaxy tab.You may call me lucky but seriously unless you select cdma vs GSM nexus or vice versa or wrong model number using the toolkit or can't read english I dont' see how its possible to stuff it up.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] bwood20:
I agree that people should learn what they're doing in case something goes wrong. I've owned and rooted a g1 and a cliq so I've learned things along the way. I even manually rooted my gnex the first time which was a pretty fast process. I used toolkit when I lost root after flashing the 4.0.4 leak and it made everything so simple lol. I could definitely tell how someone with little to no experience could make a mistake and be screwed for it.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] efrant:
I still don't think you are understanding the point.

Take a look at this thread (one of many) as an example. The OP is having issues because he wanted to flash a stock ROM in order to get the OTA update that was being pushed out. He used a toolkit. Fine. I'm sure he did nothing wrong. But, the toolkit likely didn't flash the "proper" stock recovery (yes there are more than one) for him, so he was experiencing issues as the update would not install. If he would have flashed the stock recovery himself, he would have grabbed the right file, and flashed it. No issues with having the OTA install.

It's things like this that are the problem with using toolkits, without having the underlying knowledge of what they are doing -- NOT that toolkits are bad.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] Theshawty:
Toolkits are good for many things, but I for one prefer doing it the manual way. That way, I know exactly what I flash and what commands I use. :)
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] efrant:
I have a high-stress 70-80 hour a week job (non-IT related), kids (with everything that goes along with that, e.g., sports, music lessons, homework, etc), and I'm finishing off an an executive program on the weekends, related to my field. I have no background in IT whatsoever. Now don't tell me my lifestyle is not hectic. I certainly do NOT need "something like a root app" to get me set up quicker.

When I got my first Android device (the N1) after using WM devices, I had no idea what I was doing. It took weeks of reading to figure things out, but everything I did, I did myself. Everything I learned about Android I learned myself, mostly by reading XDA, and by trying different things on my device. If something messed up, I would search for the same issue - if I happened to me, chances are it already happened to someone else. And in 90% of the cases, that holds true. We are not as special as we think, despite what our mommies tell us.

Edit: fixed typos.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] jesusice:
If you know how to use fastboot well, how is a toolkit quicker? I mean, we're still talking about the Nexus here, right? o.O
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] loveubuntu:
dump Windows and Macs for Linux, problem solved. They don't make toolkits for Linux. hehe ;)

I find it intriguing that someone would want to use a toolkit or a one click solution to root and tinker with their phone. A lot of work goes into developing these toolkits and one clicks and the developers are very nice and helpful but why bother buying an Android if you don't want to learn the steps?

My advice to friends and family: if you want a phone that works great out of the box and don't really want to tinker with it, buy an iPhone. But if you want to tinker with your phone and get the most out of a mobile device, you need to take the time to learn how to do it. Unfortunately I end up doing it for them 10 out of 10 times.

---------- Post added at 10:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 AM ----------

PS I didn't read all 14 pages but any post I come across seems to be from people doing "it" manually. #wrongpeoplereadingthisthread :D
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] adrynalyne:
Nah. Everyone wants to drive tuned cars, but not everyone wants to learn how to tune their car. The caveat to that is, they want to take it to a mechanic when it breaks.

To correlate, we are the mechanics. The downside is, we don't get paid, and expect a little effort on the part of those expecting service BECAUSE we don't get paid.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] loveubuntu:
I'm an old fart compared to most of you here and run a business (dental office) completely unrelated to techy stuff. I hope I don't offend anyone but I'm afraid to say that this kind of behavior discussed in this thread is a generational thing and I see it in young people working for me too. Let me put it in code so I don't offend anyone

sudo apt-get evrything-you-can-gimme-for-free-and-dont-ask-me-to-do-much

:p

sometimes I wish I could just do a

adb push new-attitude.zip /data/braincells

or even

fastboot flash recovery new-personality.img

I hate to have a disclaimer: the above code is intended as a joke, please don't type it in a terminal

PS I do give free dental advice if needed to the devs around here, just PM me.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] jimmyhook:
I agree in principle that one should always know what they are doing to their investments, but toolkits are a nice convenience once an understanding is achieved. At the same time, if someone doesn't bother to learn, especially when a the information is readily attainable, then I say it's their own fault and none of my business and I have zero sympathy.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] spencer88:
This isn't age related. But lifestyle related.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] Beamer9408:
Wow I feel like a new person after running those in terminal.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] slayr76:
I'm not bashing the older generation but from personal experience they wouldn't know what rooting was or need help sending a text message :p
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] n2ishun:
And from somebody born before the Viet Nahm war I would bet you have no idea how to hyperterminal into your phone and mod it that way (yes you really can).

Rooting is for limp wristed panty waists.....

Mod your connection strings.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] slayr76:
Good to know, that's why I use root tools as its not my passion to delve into things like hyper terminal ect.I simply use what's available to make my android phone better if I didn't have the root I would just go back to using iPhones an so would most an that would just be giving apple what they want by killing off android users.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] azlemad:
back in my day son, we didn't have phones we used smoke signals.

oH and we didn't have matches or fancy cigarette lighters to light the required fire, you CHEATERS! we rubbed 2 sticks together.

cos u know we were liek, hardXcore. ;)
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] loveubuntu:
hmmm, I doubt the statement above is true in my case (46) but to each their own.

The older generation YOU are talking about lacks the knowledge due to intimidation by the new technology. The younger generation the original post made reference to has the same problem but it's due to laziness. I agree that not all younger people suffer from this (as not all older people are intimidated by rooting a phone) but I have to tell you that I am quite disappointed in the work ethic of those between the age of 18-30 these days. It seems like a whole lot of you are stuck at 420 :D
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] phositadc:
I rooted yesterday after running stock for 3 weeks and I'm glad I did it manually using the Ultimate Galaxy Nexus Guide thread. I'll have to agree with the people on here that say it is a useful learning experience.

-Sent from a GSM Galaxy Nexus (RAScream/Trinity).-
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] @rbiter:
Lol. Was it this thread that somebody randomly said we are pushing out a generation of people that will one day tell their kids 'we used to drive electric cars in the snow, uphill, both ways.'?

...
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] efrant:
Hmmm... the joys of n00bs using toolkits (and all in the last day or two)...

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1670418

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1701347

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1701579

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1701385
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] dislplin01:
Funny I have not even got my phone yet but know better I feel bad for bricked phones
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] slayr76:
You realise toolkits use the same method of rooting as doing it manually just that it types the commands an downloads the files for you.You can brick a device just as easy manually an following a tutorial is only teaching you how to use someone else's commands an code.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] efrant:
Really? I had no idea. I thought is was some special secret method... :rolleyes:

I am fully away what toolkits do. Again, you are missing the point.

"Toolkits" are NOT bad.

"n00bs using toolkits without understanding what the toolkit is doing" IS bad.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] Zepius:
And you realize that they have no idea how to begin to fix anything since they know no commands. That is the entire issue this thread brings up

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] dislplin01:
Yes I do realize this but the point I believe is that tool kits make it easy to brick that's all
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] slayr76:
Does anyone really know until they visit a forum or use Google to find their answers, you can't tell me you never needed advice from a forum like this at some point whether its for issues like this or anything to do with modifying a phone, just because someone like a noob asks a silly question doesn't mean you have to discriminate.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] @rbiter:
Orly?

...
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] n2ishun:
Still never seen a bricked Samsung phone....and this goes all the way back to my old A680.

That's why they made Odin......but I probably shouldn't have said that without a newb disclaimer eh ?
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] Zepius:
You are still missing the point.

The people I have a problem with are the ones that use tool kits and then when some thing goes wrong get so confused and have no idea where to begin. They don't even know if anything is setup properly and I have no idea where some thing went wrong at to try and help them.

The same user wants instant solution and don't want to know how to fix the problem either.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] slayr76:
I can understand that, I usually ignore people like that problem solved, I'm only here to help myself, I have never asked for help unlocking or rooting.I simply used the guide an I also use toolkit occasionally but I can do everything right from my gnex without a computer anyway.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] efrant:
I understand that and have no issue with that. But if that's the case, then don't go around telling n00bs to use a toolkit so that other members (who actually help others in the forums and provide support) have to go clean up the mess.

It is easy to troubleshoot when following a step-by-step, but much more difficult to troubleshoot when a 1-click method or toolkit is used.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] @rbiter:
Yep. Gotta pay the cost to be boss. Or cover your loss.

...
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] ranger4740:
Ya know what, its the noobs that ask how? Then when you help and tell them how, they write back "it didn't work" cause they can't even follow step by step instructions without stuffing something up.

sent from my legend using zeubeas cm9 beta2
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] exzacklyright:
I followed every step... and it took a combination of both tool kits to get it to work...
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] @rbiter:
Is that an endorsement or what? It took the combination of both to get where you needed to go.

...
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] adrynalyne:
...it shouldn't take any if you understand the process.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] dislplin01:
I think the thing about tool kits is that they are made to be easy to use one click. So people that don't know what they are doing are attracted to them cause they look simple, but they are easy to **** up if you don't know what you are doing. So it is a catch 22 you should only use them if you know what you are doing but if you know what you are doing you probably won't use them. I think what the OP should do is just make more clear that it is still dangerous and can brick your device and also some more detailed instructions for noobs. The problem is these threads make it sound like its so easy there is no way you can **** up your phone when infact it is a real easy way to **** up your phone
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] exzacklyright:
Not many do :p .

Mandated from Stannis Baratheon
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] Chance Ill:
While I agree with the OP, most people simply prefer convenience. Unfortunately, they don't take the time to understand the actual process, which in turn cause unnecessary problems and repetitive threads. The undeniable fact is, it'll probably get worse......
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] @rbiter:
As a professional stair climber i can relate. When an escalator or elevator breaks people don't know what to do or where to go. And their life becomes hard when I direct them to the stairs. And that is the story of my life. :(

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[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] KennyG123:
Thread Cleaned

This is the last warning to the people trolling this thread!

Thanks

FNM
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] dreamsforgotten:
No comment OP your words are my thoughts exactly.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] El Daddy:
I have added a few walkthroughs to the OP created by efrant on how to root manually.

If you are interested in learning, check them out!
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] efrant:
Check out this post... :)
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] efrant:
Another: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=28275578 :)
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] phazerorg:
I just wanted to add my agreement with all this. I used a toolkit for the first time the other day, and that was only to help install USB drivers easily after reinstalling Windows and having trouble with the normal driver installer.

When I first got a Nexus One (my first Android device), I spent weeks to months reading the forums here everyday. After a while I finally rooted, eventually installed custom recovery so I could do nandroid backups and manually apply OTA updates and reroot.

One day I decided I wanted to try out CyanogenMod... I ended up flashing my first ROM perfectly, following no instructions... simply because I had taken the time to learn and understand everything about the process.

When I do follow instructions or guides, I never actually perform a step or run a command without fully understanding exactly why it's necessary and what effects it's going to have.

And like the post that efrant links to in his signature says, if you don't care about understanding the journey then you probably shouldn't be here in the first place.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] serialtoon:
Thank you for posting this! I too come from the old days of yore and also am not a fan of one click solutions for the same exact reasons. I had to remove some of my info on these boards because people were PMing me thru Gtalk and the likes just to get me to help them fix a broken/soft-bricked phone.

Teach a man to fish....
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] El Daddy:
Wonderful...
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] efrant:
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=28282387
[Xperia Arc Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] IMENI:
Hello everyone

I Bought a SE Arc several months ago. when a bought it, the seller install new firmware to support Persian language. I don't know, what does he exact do. So i am not sure he unlocked my bootloader or not. Is there any simple way to make sure my boot loader is locked or not?

I want update my phone with PC campanion, and I am afraid it brick my phone because I am not sure it is locked.

Thanks in advance.
[Xperia Arc Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dp94:
If you have searched a little, you'd know. :rolleyes:

There are plenty of threads about it.

And btw: *#*#7378423#*#* -> service menu. ;)