yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[About XDA developers] D4747:
Unfortunately I bought my android tablet cuz reviews and videos everywhere said I can just go to this forum to get some extra features out of it. Now I'm too scared to post anything.

Let's avoid giving opinions and defending who is right and wrong. That accomplishes nothing in the long run. Let's instead find solutions for the biggest problems.

- There is for certainly people that search a lot, on google and this forum but don't find the information they are looking for. Whether this happens > 50% of the time or < 50% of the time.. Don't know if that matters.

- There are certainly people that reply to new posters in a way to ridicule them and make them feel bad, mostly to make themselves feel better. 'You're a noob' -> therefore I am cooler than you. I'm new here so not sure it happens often, so assuming OP (original poster right?) has seen it enough times to post about it.

Possible Solution: For the previous 2 problems, update the youtube video to say all user's must post what search terms they used here and on google and youtube before asking for help. Assures the 'bullies' that the user is not a 'leech', and makes sure users have done the search.

Critical: Post those same reminders on the post form and make the post button say 'I have read the reminders and am ready to post to prevent my post from being deleted.' This gives the users the rules at the exact right time and gives them the consequence as well. No memorizing need!

- It sucks when threads are hijacked!!

- It is confusing sometimes to figure out what threads to post in. What if you post in Q&A but all the people that would possibly have an answer for you are in a different related thread? I suppose this is why people hi-jack threads...

Possible Solution: Don't have one yet! But whatever it is, I suppose have it on the post form too. Perhaps someone that knows the logic as to figuring out which forum to post in, and then saying you can PM members in related threads.

Additionally, maybe help seeking users can help reciprocate by needing to update tags for the thread mentioning the problem and solution to include tags that they think would have helped them find it originally. If the thread doesn't exist, create it.

As for the devs for the users issue, if the site creator's want it more dev oriented or only dev oriented, maybe as separate user forum or something. Then users can only PM people in a dev forum if their post is not developer related. Encourage users to offer $5 to answer a question if dev's would rather not answer. Free pizza money cmon! I'd do it. This idea would need more work but if it spurs more development it would be good to think about.
[About XDA developers] cajunflavoredbob:
You didn't miss anything, but you pretty much just recovered exactly the same points that we made previously. Seems like we're on the same page now.
[About XDA developers] PeartFan40:
How would charging for tech support create more development? If anything, it would slow development to a crawl because devs would be too busy answering questions from inexperienced members who failed to thouroughly read the instructions. Too many noobs flash without completely understanding what they are doing. Implementing tech supoort would be an epic fail. It comes down to taking the time to read all necessary information before attempting anything. Be it modding or posting threads.
[About XDA developers] cajunflavoredbob:
Don't be afraid to post. That's not what anyone wants. We just don't want to do the work for you. Show us that you're willing to do some troubleshooting as well. Be part of the team.

Ok, first, OP will either mean Original Poster, as in the person who created the thread, or it will mean Original Post, as in the first post of the thread. It all depends on the way you use it in a sentence. Others should be able to figure it out based on the context you use it in.

Also, no one is condoning the "bullying." I've explained why it was happening and tried to shed some light on the other side of the argument. I'm not condoning the use of flaming, but I am trying to show you guy why it is happening.

This is a community of users. If you are only coming here to find an answer to a question and then be on your way, then you are not a part of our community. We want people to come here for a shared interest and learn and grow together. We don't want people turning this site into a support forum. You have carrier and OEM forums for that purpose. We're here to take what the carriers and OEMs spit out to us and make it better.

If a thread gets hijacked, use the report feature to let a mod know to take care of it. The report button is the little triangle in the upper right of every post. If you can't seem to get an answer to your problem, try asking the question a different way, or make certain that you've done as much troubleshooting as possible on your own. Always remember to list every single detail that you've already tried in the thread when asking for help.

Actually, updating tags in a thread is a great idea. I haven't thought about that before. I'm going to have to remember to suggest that more often. If you have a more useful set of tags for a thread, please, always feel free to add better ones. If there are inappropriate tags in a thread, use the report button to ask a mod to remove them.

Offering money in exchange for help isn't really a good idea, but it isn't technically against the rules. If you think that would work better for you, then go for it. I wouldn't suggest it, though. Most users here will, as I've said earlier, bend over backward to help you out with an issue as long as you show that you're willing to do the work too. No one wants to do it all for you. We would love to help out a fellow community member, though.
[About XDA developers] mmilestone:
Uhh guys... the Transformer Prime Forums :( ... uhh... I think we need the Sheriff in town. :confused:
[About XDA developers] zelendel:
I said I would come that way. It is late here so it may not be until the morning.
[About XDA developers] mmilestone:
Thanks!

I didn't see the PM right away. Sorry. :o
[About XDA developers] cajunflavoredbob:
I'm not being sarcastic or anything here, but it sounds like the only issue you have is that it isn't a written rule that questions should go in the Q&A sections. Am I understanding that correctly? If not, I apologize for missing your point, but if so, you could try raising this issue with the admins and mods in the requests sticky at the top of the About XDA forum that we're in. It seems to me to be a valid point. We've always just gone on the assumption that people would see the Q&A forum heading and realize that their question should go in that section.
[About XDA developers] zone23:
Flaming should be allowed you post something stupid, ask the same question asked 2 post down you should get hammered. Thats what keeps people from posting stupid ****. FLAME ON! Can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
[About XDA developers] cajunflavoredbob:
Flaming is explicitly against the XDA rules. If you want a flame war, then go hang out on 4chan or something. There are ways to get your point across without flaming.
[About XDA developers] CallMeVentus:
But what if they don't listen ?

Defiance is in the norm nowadays :/

Herpderp Defy.
[About XDA developers] conantroutman:
The report post function is your friend...

Provoked or not, flaming is against the rules.....
[About XDA developers] cajunflavoredbob:
Simple: ignore them.
[About XDA developers] PeartFan40:
And what exactly will that solve? Yes, it can get annoying having new members posting in the wrong sections. But there is no such thing as a stupid question; only stupid people. XDA encourages experiened members to guide and help new members. When I first joined back in 2007, I too, struggled with navigating around the forums; as I am sure many have. It's not for any of us to determine how we treat new members. If you dont have a patient, helpful nature, it's best that you refrain from blasting people for what you consider a "stupid question", and leave it to people who are better able to handle the situation.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but it seems pretty childish to get angry and disrespectful towards someone who is simply lost or confused. Some people just dont acclimate well to XDA, and need some help from time to time. Being self righteous and rude only makes you look like a jerk. Rules like this are in place for a reason. If everybody shared your opinion about flaming, XDA wouldn't have 3+ million members.

From what I've seen in my years here, XDA doesn't tolerate flaming, swearing, etc. These rules are what seperates XDA from most other forums. Im just curious; if you were lost, confused, or have made a mistake, how you would feel if someone responded to you with ridicule or condescension?

Conversely, if you can't follow the rules, perhaps it's you who should stay out of the kitchen.

Just remember, behavior is contageous. How you treat a new member could set the overall attitude of that member. If he/she is led to believe that sort of behavior is tolerable, they too might reciprocate.

Just saying.

(sorry for the lengthy post) :D
[About XDA developers] G1ForFun:
The OP of this thread is the exact problem with these forums. Users that feel entitled to post questions that have been asked a thousand times and/or clutter up the boards with useless threads, like this one. ;)

It will never end....I am glad that I have been a part of a number of different forums and know this. You can only do your best to eliminate the haters and prevent the noobs from cluttering the sub forums.

Around here, they go and post about nothing and get access to the dev forums. You see, XDA is trying, but the noobs would rather spam there way into the dev forum instead of taking five minutes to look up their question.

Also, and I blame XDA, the search function is horrible. It is hard to find and not user friendly. Yes I and many others can use it juts fine, but it is pretty apparent that all of the noobs have no idea that a "Search this thread" button even exists. XDA needs to redesign their search....maybe take a page out of the Android User Interface Guidelines.
[About XDA developers] PeartFan40:
To the OP: I am in no way defending people who flame. What I will say, is that too often, inexperienced members tend to do things backwards. They will rush to flash, hack, or mod their device, and when it goes south, they scramble around searching for a solution; which now becomes a "time sensitive" issue. Had that person actually researched the rom, mod, hack before attempting it, they would have avoided putting themselves in that situation to begin with.

Poor planning on your part, doesn't constitute an emergency on ours. :D :D :D
[About XDA developers] Nigeldg:
When I see posts that are just stupid like 'how do I flash this ROM' when there are thousands of guides I pretend to flame them but also put a link to the answer (or the answer itself) at the bottom of the post, just to see if they were really reading (it's pretty hard to miss a hyperlink) ;). It's quite satisfying to ask someone to reread my post when they reply. Having said that, I realise how sad I am :(
[About XDA developers] cajunflavoredbob:
A better way to do it is to ask them how they tried to solve the problem themselves. If they reply that they haven't looked other than asking how to do it, point them to www.google.com. Kindly ask them to update their post if they are unable to locate a place that has already received an answer.

I prefer to do it this way, because it makes them feel stupid for not searching, but you are not flaming or being disrespectful to them. It teaches them how we do things around here.

If you want to be fed, you have to at least try to hunt.
[About XDA developers] PeartFan40:
There is definiately a learning curve to utilizing XDA, and some learn more quickly than others in this respect. In my opinion, being patient and helpful is more effective than being disrespectful by making somebody feel stupid. I've witnessed experienced members say "if you don't know how to mod or flash, why are you here". I could be wrong, but I think they are here to learn.

One of my duties at work is to train and oversee my staff; most of which are inexperienced. Over the years, I have learned that some people take longer to acclimate than others. Having patience and respect is more effective than making someone feel stupid.

The rules clearly state that flamming is prohibited, and in my opinion, making somebody feel stupid by means of derrogatory statements, touches on the act of flamming. I have yet to see a MOD promote behavior that touches upon rule breaking, and I don't think it's wise for a non MOD to entertain that type of behavior either.

Us "experienced" members were all noobs at one time, and none of us are above another in that respect. If you have been treated disrespectfully by another member, I encourage you to use the report feature. Making someone feel stupid should not be encouraged or tolerated by other members. In my opinion, if you can find a "good reason" to make someone feel stupid, you shouldn't be helping anybody.

In a nutshell, there should never be reason to flame, or make somebody feel stupid.

My 1.5 cents :D
[About XDA developers] thaiceman:
How do you measure & by what metric a user is considered "experienced" & who is a noob?..

Its slightly off topic but I've noticed that there's generally a difference in responses given to someone that has 1000+ posts & has been here for a bit vs. someone such as myself who's quietly lurked the forums for several years before posting anything. Sometimes its good, but other times replier comes off as a condescending ass which as you might guess isn't the best of ways to reply to a post.

The only reason I started posting with the exception of one or two posts was to get rid of that damn annoying message at the top of the forums (blah blah blah your new you should go post somewhere).

-Ice
[About XDA developers] PeartFan40:
I don't understand how this relates to my post, but in my opinion, what differenciates a new member (noob) from an experienced member is someone who fully understands and accepts the rules, who knows where to post questions, general, off topic, etc. and knows about flashing, modding.

Btw, using profanity is prihibited. ;)
[About XDA developers] cajunflavoredbob:
All this sounds like is that you want us to spoon feed people who are too lazy to search. My comment about them feeling stupid is completely valid, and the staff here will completely back me up. If the user feels dumb for posting a question that he has done no research for after I ask him what he did to try and fix it, then that's on him, not me. I don't have any problem with helping someone who helps himself. I won't flame anyone for not searching, but I'm not going to give the answer to a lazy ass user who can't lift a finger to help himself.

For example, if I'm training someone in real life and you point out a sign that says "Don't touch this button; it spills paint on your shirt," and one of your trainees goes and presses the button, my first question to them would be, "Well, didn't you see the sign that said not to touch it?" It's the same thing. I'm not going to go over and pull their finger away from the button. That just teaches them that I'm going to baby them through everything. People need to grow up at some point.

It doesn't matter how many posts you have. The important thing is how you ask for help. The difference is normally in the way older users ask their questions. They've usually been around longer and posted enough to get the hang of how to ask a question, what information the people answering the question will be looking for, and so forth. As long as you try to help yourself in solving the problem and post as much relevant information as possible, most users aren't going to get an attitude with you about it. The ones that do shouldn't be here anyway.
[About XDA developers] PeartFan40:
We can agree to disagree Bob. I'm just curious, are you a MOD? I ask because I see you using referrences like "this is how we do things around here" or we won't tolerate that. Some of your posts would give one the impression that you're a mod. Are you?
[About XDA developers] cajunflavoredbob:
I'm not a mod. You can clearly see that from the title under my avatar. Don't get all uppity just because I view things differently than you. I use the word "we", because this is a community of which you and I are a part. Therefore, yes, this is how "we" do things; this is how the responsible members here have always done things.

Spoon feeding new members isn't good for anyone, especially the new member. How does that teach them anything? There are tools available to them to make it easier to find answers. This also prevents the occasions where users post things after messing something up do to them not reading or understanding things properly. If you don't want a brick on your hands, do the reading and understand what you're getting into. Giving away the answers just teaches them to do first, and ask questions later. If they know that the people helping here aren't going to give it away, then they do more reading and understanding in the first place. It's a simple trickle down effect.
[About XDA developers] PeartFan40:
Everybody has their own way of helping. I'm not going to debate over it. I stand by what I say, that there is never an excuse to be disrespectful to somebody who is asking for help. Refering to another member as a "lazy a**" is a perfect example of flaming. Everybody deserves basic respect, plain and simple. Bob's example was a bit riduculous, because in my 17 years on the job, training people, I have never once had an employee blatantly ignore instructions. I've had plenty of people make mistakes, but that is to be expected.

Jeez, I've been her since 2007 and I don't have this attitude of "if you can't do it right, you shouldn't be here", nor do I make people feel stupid. None of us have the right to say who should be here, or not, except MODS and Admins. Bob, Ice, nor I are MODS or Admins. Nor should we be acting like we are. It's actually funny to hear Ice say "they shouldn't be here in the first place" when earlier today, you made a comment about other people being condescending.

None of us really know the person we are helping. For all we know, some of them may have learning disabilities.

We can agree to disagree...
[About XDA developers] PeartFan40:
lol@ uppity...who said anything about spoon feeding? I'm talking about being respectful and not making people feel stupid. Plain and simple. Like I said earlier, we can agree to disagree.
[About XDA developers] cajunflavoredbob:
Firstly, I didn't call anyone a lazy ass. It's a state that someone can be. Someone can also be helpful, unhelpful, productive or lazy. Calm down with the accusations. If I point out that a particular member is lazy, that isn't flaming. If I call his mother a nasty name, that is flaming. Pointing out the obvious has nothing to do with flaming at all. It's all about how you address the situations. In any case, I've never called a member lazy for not searching (at least not that I recall). If anything I've pointed them to the search feature, or to the stickies for reference.

Whether someone at your personal workplace ignores instructions is irrelevant. If you want to quote the rules, one of them is to search before asking, so by enabling them with easy answers, you're allowing them to continue to break that rule.

Your assumption about my join date is incorrect. I've been a registered member here since 2006. This is my third account here. Before you start quoting rules again, the others are deleted. I was actually unaware until last year that you could simply have an admin change the username for you. Join date, post count, and thanks mean squat here or on any online forum. What matters is how you present yourself to a community from which you need respect, help, or both.

EDIT: I don't think we actually disagree on anything about the flame rule. You're just misunderstanding what I'm talking about.

---------- Post added at 06:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:07 PM ----------

Ok, just so we can drop this bit about making people feel stupid, here's an example of exactly what I'm talking about below. This type of response doesn't spoon feed anyone with a quick answer. It doesn't flame, insult, or anything even close. If the other user feels dumb for posting with little to no information, then that's his business, not mine.

My normal response - How have you tried to fix this? Have you searched for a solution yet? You need to provide more information about your device so we don't wind up guessing. All devices are not the same.
[About XDA developers] PeartFan40:
Bob, I have nothing against you. We just have different methods of dealing with people. Let's just agree to disagree. Ok?
[About XDA developers] cajunflavoredbob:
I know you don't. I have nothing against you either. I thought we were debating a topic.
[About XDA developers] PeartFan40:
We were, a good one, actually. I just didn't want it to get out of hand.

PM sent.
[About XDA developers] cajunflavoredbob:
Everyone has different views of the situation. It can't get out of hand if we don't let it. I was enjoying the debate, but I did have to clear up the inaccuracies. Didn't mean for that to seem like I was coming down on you, though, if I did.

Debating is the only way you're going to show someone else a different side of their viewpoint.
[About XDA developers] PeartFan40:
I didn't think you were coming down on me at all. Everybody has their own way of handling things. You were standing your ground, as was I. Good debate it was. No harm, no foul. It's all good, my XDA brother.
[About XDA developers] studiorat:
Flaming being allowed Wouldn't help..... I have lurked here for almost a year and never ask questions because of the elitist attitude most replies i read have ...like they are better than every person in the universe, I have extremely disappointing news, I am not willing to have my intelligence insulted by these glorified noobs with a few posts, insulting others looking for help, very unprofessional and childish attitudes are rampant not only here but most forums, and they block you from making posts if you flame, that's real helpful, ...f@#$g idiots
[About XDA developers] TRusselo:
see this thread for help...

WHY YOU GET SHORT/ONE WORD ANSWERS (The Long Answer)
[About XDA developers] cajunflavoredbob:
This. +1000
[About XDA developers] monkeypaws:
Well as its orobably been mentioned here thr search function on the xda app is a bigissue. It jusr doesnt work. I use it 90 % of the time. Im not going to log on to just search. I do read btw but its pointless to have a developers forum where anyone can sign up and just not be helpful at all.
[About XDA developers] PeartFan40:
In my reply, I stated that XDA is a great resource (for already existant info and tools) and that Google is your friend (searching).
[About XDA developers] cajunflavoredbob:
The search feature here does, indeed, suck. It is far better to use Google than the search feature here, unless you're looking for keywords in a thread. If you post the search terms you used in your request for help, we can better assist you in finding the solution to your problem.
[About XDA developers] cajunflavoredbob:
See? We do agree. Lol
[About XDA developers] PeartFan40:
lol