yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HTC Sensation] undercover:
Very, very true. Unfortunately xda seems to prefer to just close thread, give infractions, and try to shut everyone up instead of trying to encourage cooperation. Shall we try to change something here together, as a community?

P. S. Nice to see mods participating in conversation. Maybe(hopefully) it's a beginning of a better relationship?
[HTC Sensation] broncogr:
I agree with both MTM AND NATF, and since I am one of the oldest members still active here, I can also confirm what NATF just said. We need cooperation between Devs and not pride wars.

Unfortunately this is not the case...
[HTC Sensation] baadnewz:
Winzip wizzard here (actually i use total commander but thats another story) - no irony here, if anyone has enough time to search my history on xda he will see i always said i'm cooking i'm not developing.

back to the discussion.

"they are under zero obligation to share it with anyone else. Most times this can risk exposing the source, which could potentially shut everyone down."

yes is true XDA can't make people share their source - 100% agree

risk of exposure ? i doubt is the case ,these test build are leaked with HTC's OK, we do the final beta testing for free . Let's not get into conspiracy theories here.

Is not just 3 devs who have a problem, again if anyone has the time to search xda will see one of the chefs had arguments with a lot more than 2 chefs .

Donations. I personally don't ask for them, i accept them .

As for me, i never wanted to be the 1st, and in the rare moments i had a thing 1st i shared it, i never cared about my thread rating and didn't cry when i got 1 star instead of five and so on. don't believe me ? again use the search .

about sharing, good or bad, 1st or the latest, i always said everyone is free to use what they want and do whatever they want with my zip-mods
[HTC Sensation] Jonny:
IMHO I think XDA uses the term recognized developer far too loosely.

mudhi is a developer, LEEDROiD a developer. Mike1986 has no code knowledge (there was a very heated discussion via PM between him and me about that, I won and he left me.alone eventually) and all "his" mods made by other people. he is not the only one, don't think I say this just to have a go at mike, there are also other but at least baadnewz does do own mods, search back to 2.08 base and his own mod based on the beats audio mod (can't remember the original developer)

these people like mike think a bit of hocus pocus in dsixda kitchen make them developers, IT DOES NOT (IMO)

I say this and many of you will be thinking I am a hypocrite. Ha, I know flash ActionScript, JavaScript, HTML, CSS, tiny bit of PHP, and some java as well as currently learning smali, I came originally from DFG StarMods (where I now have the honour of being one of the admins) which is a flash theme development site for Samsung phones (like tocco lite, star, Monte and the jet)

And another thing, if people make a ROM based on a new leak/release but choose not to share the RUU, then they really have no grounds to complain about kangs because they brought it on themselves by refusing to share. If they share, kangs won't happen so I think it is unfair for baad to have received infraction because it is only human nature for users to want the best, the newest etc

p.s all apk files libs etc from any of our ROMs belong to HTC not the chefs
[HTC Sensation] baadnewz:
there are a bit more than beats stuff.

ported amaze camera and album to work on every 2.3.3-2.3.5 sense 3/3.5 rom

when was the 1st leak of android 2.3.4 from Chinese source i was the one who made location / friendstream / stock etc. to work with it and so on
[HTC Sensation] Jonny:
I know, I just use beats as example because at the time it was well known ;)
[HTC Sensation] Jackos:
True, but this isn't platform dependent at all. WinMo ROM development suffered from this too.

Donations make people greedy, some guys just made their rom cooking tenure a part-time job. Nowadays Smartphones became over-popular causing this to be a great money source.

In my personal opinion xda-devs should somehow promote/encourage developers that do not accept donations, make freeware, and release their source code for free.
[HTC Sensation] conantroutman:
QFT!

Money is the root of most of the problems with XDA these days...
[HTC Sensation] undercover:
And I can't see that changing unfortunately.

So,are we getting anywhere guys?

Is there a way to encourage sharing somehow?

It just beyond my comprehension that an apple can be given for someone to give a bite to anyone who'd like it, but no one else can take that apple to give a bite. End result is the same in think.

It's not about Mike not sharing when he is told not to share (if that is true, I don't know and not judging him). It's the concept of having something to share but only allowing one person to share it which gets me confused. Why!?
[HTC Sensation] sindresv:
Thank GOD somebody started discussing this! I tried to started, but the thread was closed the second I started it. I will hold my tongue, but you can read between the lines:

Baad

We miss you! :D
[HTC Sensation] ziggy1001:
Look at the way the 3.25.401.101 HTC test was released, a pre release then posted publicly on Modaco a couple of days later that is pure "marketing"
[HTC Sensation] Jackos:
I somehow understand developers that do release a ROM based on something new first. This goes fine with me, but only if the chef does release the update/patch/leaked rom right after the rom release.

If you release something first to the community and later cook it in your ROM you don't gain the proper credit for it. By credit I do mean xda-devs RESPECT, not cash, lol.

EDIT: Explanation: Average xda user does rather flash a new rom then install a patch via recovery.
[HTC Sensation] abachhan75:
it is a sad event. I luved baad's work. in my experience he has never demanded donations. mistakes and misunderstanding can happen. Let's see if people involved put their ego aside and resolve the matter to the benefit of community.
[HTC Sensation] NotATreoFan:
DISCLAIMER: I am not referencing any one particular case with what I am about to say.

As Conan said, there is a right way, and a wrong way to question the decision of a moderator. The correct way is to contact them by PM, and having a 2-way conversation regarding the event(s) that transpired. The wrong way is for someone to open a new thread asking complaining that their links were removed, or they were infracted because they broke a rule. I've said it numerous times in the past, but there are always people who think they are above those rules (again, not talking about this specific situation).

I have been a moderator on XDA for over 3 years, which is before the forum moderator structure existed. I am now a member of the Moderator Committee, a group of 8 longtime members who are intimately familiar with the workings of XDA. If anyone ever has an issue with a forum or senior moderator, they should never hesitate to contact us. In the event of the appearance of a COI, we will forward everything to MikeChannon, the forum admin.

Regarding the general closing of threads: We generally only do this when a discussion have gotten way out of hand, to the point of profanity-laced tirades, or if it has gone so far off topic that anyone reading the last 10 pages would struggle to understand what's going on. A note should always be left when a thread is closed, but this may not always be the case, and that leads me back to my first point. Instead of opening a new thread questions what happened to x or y or z, a PM should be sent to one of the forum moderators seeking clarification. We (XDA mods/admins) are always willing to listen to any constructive criticism or suggestions on what can be improved, but it must be done in the proper way.

Regards,

NATF
[HTC Sensation] dazzlet:
I love baads roms out have used them since my desire a while ago and I always try new roms but always go back to baads.

I am downloading his latest as I type because I love his support and efforts for the entire Android community and his contributions have been fantastic IMO
[HTC Sensation] :
Quick last post from me; Completely agree with tinky. Something with SOPA, ACTA.

One of the best chefs has left the building, great support, almost daily updates, a growing userbase. Shame XDA didn't step in.

This thread will probably be closed anyway. (sarcasm)

Rgds, share and hf.
[HTC Sensation] Jonny:
Here is something I would like to see in future:

Usergroups, one for proper developers (yes, ones that develope stuff rather than just use kitchen) and another for chef's so the actual users can see what their ROM chef actually is rather than only other developer's/chefs seeing/knowing what he/she/whatever is.
[HTC Sensation] undercover:
As long as we keep our conversation constructive, it should not be closed.

Regarding opening a thread. There are a lot of people here, and each has his own opinion, surely it's better to contain all that in one place, instead of dealing with hundreds of pms.

Any of the mods have an opinion on my post above? Regarding selective sharing? I understand that there isn't much that you can do, but it's always caused flaming and trouble one way or another. Baadnewz always stood up to his believes, and he would talk out loud, but so do other people. Since a lot of people follow him his comments get noticed a lot faster than, say, if I said it.

The way I see it, is that not any particular person causes trouble but the actual practice of selective sharing.

As ziggy said above, smells of marketing and profiteering.
[HTC Sensation] undercover:
That wouldn't help our initial issue a single bit.
[HTC Sensation] NotATreoFan:
The problem with this post is that you are blaming us for a chef leaving. We cannot force anyone to share, but at the same time, are required to take action against people who either openly kang, or claim to kang, or otherwise post for the sake of provoking drama.
[HTC Sensation] undercover:
He kanged libs BY HTC, see. So shall every non AOSP rom thread be shut down?
[HTC Sensation] jamiescott23:
Totally agreed.

Sent from my Sensation XE with Beats Audio running InsertCoin ICS 4.4.4
[HTC Sensation] C.T.Richter:
So, if Baad had said he got the RUU from an internal source (also claimed he cannot share), instead of kanged from Mike, it would be ok?

Because afaik, the RUU isn't Mikes work, it's HTC work, so it's not really kanging, even thou Baad said it was. I mean, he could just have said "Obtained from an anonymous source", and it might as well be Mike's ROM, since no one would be able to prove otherwise.
[HTC Sensation] NotATreoFan:
Just because someone gets access to a leak, but then doesn't share it, doesn't mean they are kanging from HTC. A lot of the activity taking place on XDA is done with CYA in mind. We have had issues in the past where leaked files for a Sprint device, don't remember which, were shared by someone other than the intended receiver. In that case, there was code inside the files that would have made it easy for the carrier and manufacturer to trace back the source, effectively closing that path.

The only time we can enforce sharing is when items are subject to GPL licensing, such as kernels. I am on your side with the statement of "everyone should share." Unfortunately it is not always the case, although I wish it was.
[HTC Sensation] conantroutman:
That's completely facetious and you know it.

Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.......
[HTC Sensation] mrg02d:
Let's not forget the fanboy...Nothing is more annoying then coming across a fanboy. Someone that insults you in the name of their dev. Or cook, or whatever when you disagree with something. It takes a really strong person to refrain from starting a two page fight that ends when a dev steps in.

I say that XDA needs to end donations for awhile. See who is really in it to make things better. Free is rarely a good thing, so let's see just how good the intentions of the devs are. When money starts getting passed out, people begin to change their attitude. Donation or not, people expect something in return when they give.

If not ending donations, altering the way they are done maybe? There must be some way to ensure that people share their donations based on the amount of work they do. I don't mean to offend, but the majority of the roms are identical. Why not have ONE rom with the attention of all the devs? They are all the same now. They have the exact same features. Who cares if one dev releases something first? The others will follow suit a day later.
[HTC Sensation] rmk40:
I really doubt any of this has to do with money. It's impossible to justify the time with donation money, as one would be better off getting any minimum wage job which would pay 10x what comes in via donations. I personally work on Android because it's a fun hobby. Quite honestly, donations don't even cover hosting costs. Make no mistake, they are appreciated, but no one here is "making" more than a few cents an hour for their efforts.

Anyhow, I'm all for sharing and I think we should try to share as much as possible. At the same time, I am vehemently against people asserting a sense of entitlement. No one is required to share and no one should be making demands that they should. It's better for all of us when they do share but any suggestion that they must share is absurd at best.
[HTC Sensation] Jackos:
Depends what country you're living in...
[HTC Sensation] mike1986.:
Nope, he also used files from my ROM. But that wouldn't be a single problem if he just would credit me for that. It's all about credits. If baadnawz gives credits for every developer, why he is too proud to credit me? He didn't even ask me for the RUU.

Also keep in mind, that baadnawz closed the thread himself. He just got infraction from XDA for his provocative "kanged from mike1986". But he decided to leave (not for the first time).

And speaking about donations?

Leaks? I don't get the discussion. When I receive leaked RUU with annotation "please don't publish the RUU" I have 2 choices:

1) I can publish the RUU and never receive any leak again. In a result EVERYONE loose. But no - some users just want what you have. No matter what. No matter for your source consequences. No matter for nothing, they just want it because now they hardly believe in sharing, but in the past they used to call you "full of ****".

2) I will not publish the RUU, make ROM for the whole community, so I do share because I release my ROMs here, I don't keep it for myself. So I share, with everything I CAN share. Of course, few devs will be pissed off, because they don't have what I have.

It's all about 3 things:

1. If you use some of my work, no matter if it was complicated coding or simple script writing - give proper credits.

2. If you hate me and don't respect me - be a men of honor and don't use my work.

3. Don't be hypocrite.

That's all, just think about it.
[HTC Sensation] mrg02d:
Thanks for sharing that. I truly don't know how much people give when they do. If it money, then there must be something else fuelling the competition? Prestige? You devs ought to realise by now that having a rom that is the same as everyone else rom is not very prestigious. I really would love to see all the devs here get together and cooperate as one team. We can put our own wallpaper and themes on the rom. :)

One rom to unify us all. That would be awesome, no?

Edit: sorry for my misspellings, my iPad needs to go to grade school and learn how to speak.

Matt
[HTC Sensation] undercover:
Mike, point taken.

You probably think I'm just a fanboy upset about Baad leaving. I'm not. I flash different roms , praise all devs and chefs when it's due, share if I have something to share with everyone. The reason I chose IC is because it suits my needs. I'd also use LeeDroid, which is very much liked, but he is often busy with other devices. I believe arhd is very similar, but I follow Baad from Desire, and you normally follow people you know right?

Mike, as I said, I understand that you might not be able to share, I just don't understand the whole concept of giving it to one person and then saying that only that one person can share it with his modifications.

It's not so much about Baad vs Mike, it's about some weird exclusivity rights. Especially as ruu appears day or two later for everyone to grab anyway, from the same source(by the looks of it) that share it initially with Mike.
[HTC Sensation] broncogr:
End the provoking stuff or I will close the thread and infract everyone starting the same stuff again...

Dev or no dev
[HTC Sensation] mike1986.:
No mate, I don't think you're ICS fan. But please don't judge me just because sometimes I have something new for the community, that nobody else yet have.

Also, as I mentioned before many times, baadnawz stepped by to my thread at the very beginning, calling me zip-modder and kanger (he claimed I kanged his Desire ROM, but in fact I've never seen "baadnawz" before he posted in my thread). The thread was cleaned very fast, but the result was that some unknown for me dev coming out of nowhere, offending me and trolling in my thread. That is where it all began. Now, after all baadnawz attacks I just don't feel like I should share anything with him. I think it's quite understandable, right? He is offending me all the time, on every step, but also using every new idea from my ROM (touch recovery script, some of my tweaks). I never used his stuff. So he is using my stuff, offending me and not giving credits. I don't use his work at all. So I should pm him in a first place and write "Mate, would you like a new RUU"? Will you do it if you were me? Share stuff with the biggest hater you ever had?

PS. Ask rmk40 or robocik. They will tell you that I share with them everything I have.
[HTC Sensation] banesi:
we need baad, we need mike and all other respectful members doing things we like day by day, year by year

so, having said that, can we take a break for a day or two and shake hands after, like grownups do?

it's not like we done something terrible, unforgivable here, very frequently solutions to problems are only one deep, long breath away
[HTC Sensation] mike1986.:
Thanks, I hope we can deal with it with no emotions. I'm honest here and trying to be clear.
[HTC Sensation] broncogr:
Only problem here is that baadnewz is not here in the conversation.

I believe you guys must find some common ground yourselves so that he community can benefit.
[HTC Sensation] mike1986.:
Well, he can always join :) Indeed I agree with the common ground.
[HTC Sensation] undercover:
It does feel like a nursery here quite a bit. :-)

Out of interest, Baad and Mike, would you consider putting all the s**t behind and trying to co-exist? Nah, I don't think it'd work...

Still, it's not about them two, it's about weird exclusivity I mentioned before.
[HTC Sensation] mrg02d:
This reminds me of microprocessor class...I am good at circuits and power, not programming. There were a few kids that were awesome at programming, but not circuits and power. (I'm talking about electrical engineering here). They would help a certain few with their projects and labs(they would find crap on the Internet or from their friends projects that had already taken the course), but the others were left high and dry. Anytime you asked for help, they would be all secretive with you. Made me mad seeing as I used to help all those type kids with circuits and power...
[HTC Sensation] broncogr:
He shows offline so I believe it is in the best interests for both of you to discuss the matter in private, maybe on IRC if you can get a hold of him there and find a resolution.

This will be beneficial for XDA.
[HTC Sensation] broncogr:
Still it would be a first step
[HTC Sensation] Jonny:
Mike, you may be right about what happened at the start (I was not here so will not judge that particular statement) but maybe it would be better to send out the RUU via PM to people (even those who where in competition with you) and maybe even let capy post it saying he got it from his source, therefore your source is protected. Yes I know you wouldn't get your credits but seriously, ask yourself this, its a question I asked myself recently, do credits really matter, what do they gain?? Is it worth all this aggrovation just so you get credit?

Not telling the other chefs/devs/whatever sparks jealousy, trolling and flaming yet if you explain to them I'm sure situations like this could be avoided. I believe a certain level of competition is healthy otherwise how would anything improve? But when people get too competitive problems start occurring
[HTC Sensation] arachnid1970:
totally agree, but we need them all working together and not building "gangs" around them to fight for the others territories :(

So i'm not feeling like i should in a "Community" ... but i even know that nobody of the High Society will care how a simple dumb user feels... showing respect might be a one way street...
[HTC Sensation] tinker2000:
The weird thing in all this is that if they met in a pub they'd probably get on like a house on fire. I hope it does all get sorted out, XDA has lost an excellent chef and we need to get him back if that is at all possible.

I have read this entire topic and agree with a lot of what is being said. the issues I have, in some cases, are with the so called 'fan boys' and those who revel in provoking discord amongst the ranks.

The last few weeks have seen a lot of minor issues and disagreements leading up to the present situation being discussed (heated or otherwise) on the forums by both Dev's and Mod's. I dont think that helped, particularly last week. My suggestion in these situations would be to take it out of the forums if that is possible. This would keep the issue behind closed doors, not adding to the flames for the fan boys to use to fire their poison back and forth.... I was even "Ha Ha'd" by someone when asked if I would care to explain something I had said to fallen angel. For Heaven's sake, its an adult forum!

Anyway, I do hope it all gets sorted and we can learn from this so that it never happens again. If I offend, please delete as I have no wish to be provocative on this thread.

Thats my worthless scrawl over with. Have a good weekend all :)
[HTC Sensation] baadnewz:
i used kanged because this is what i did, i downloaded mike's rom diffed it and took the files because i didn't have from where to take them - i don't have sources at best i take them from a chinese forum . Of course i could have said X gave the ruu to me but then i was lying. so yes i did kanged from his rom. was i wrong to be honest ?

other than that what's more to say ?

as someone mentioned earlier, all sense roms are 99.9% alike, some bits and values and scripts differ here and there, but overall is the same stuff.

i haven't done a hex edit or a smali edit since base 2.08. too many leaks in too short time. so since ics ruu leak i guess i'm a zipmodder

LE. I did a hexedit today, i hexedited the cifs module. Look mum i'm a certified hacker
[HTC Sensation] broncogr:
Thread closed.

There is a new Dev thread up in the development subforum
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] *GalaxyDev*:
I come from HTC Phones always seeing that in all roms there's a boot.img that can easily be splited in Linux or Cygwin but I see in these Galaxy devices that this is replaced with an equivalent named zImage....so my question is how can i split, edit & repack this file [my reason is to give a shot to some android ports but from another gallaxy devices cough(android 4.0.3 touchwiz from I9100)cough]
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] T.C.P:
Correct me if Im wrong but u can't just edit our kernels like that u have to download kernel source and build it ground up. Thus the reason we have limited kernels here
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] *GalaxyDev*:
Well it looks like Samsung doesn't want to give us Dev love :(

But then correct me if I'm wrong: Would a boot.img work as well in our phones or I need to have the zImage [i'll try to port it from Nexus S (downloaded some ROMs and they have boot.img)]
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] T.C.P:
our aosp roms use boot.img ex. MIUI and CM7 but besides those every other rom uses a zimage which is almost the same thing