yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Eee Pad Transformer General] knoxploration:
Completely off-topic; this thread should be moved to a forum that has anything to do with Windows 8.

And incidentally, Win8 will be the next Vista. It will flop, badly. Microsoft has never managed an even slightly successful touch-screen OS, and Win8 has significant design limitations that will put people off once they finally get to try it.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] caseyc:
As much as I agree that Windows 8 may flop, I also disagree about MS never building a decent touchscreen OS. Before Windows 7, absolutely - however the Acer running Windows 7 worked extremely well to my surprise. It worked just as a tablet should and the response time was impressive. Any tablet that has a fan is a fail though, so if it works well on ARM - maybe.....

If Microsoft can make Windows 8 work and improve on the "tiles" portion, I think it could be a reasonable tablet OS.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] mrevankyle:
I am sorry that you think that that was inconsiderate it just irritates me when someone opens a new thread for a topic that has already been discussed multiple times in the form of a device that will never get that operating system. There is an entire windows 8 section of XDA and i think that this post would have better served to start a discussion there
[Eee Pad Transformer General] knoxploration:
What percentage of Windows7 users are even aware it can operate with a touch screen, much less use it that way?

I rest my case.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] asdfuogh:
What percentage of iPad users know that tablets can be used for things outside of Angry Birds and porn?

The point isn't that Windows necessarily suck at touchscreen capability, it's just that they don't seem to have attracted much attention with it. Whether it's because they also believe that bull**** Apple has created around tablets and want to be seen as a more serious company... or if they're just too damn slow and big to move quickly, who knows?

(By the way, slightly off topic, but where is the best source to gather all past financial history on Apple and Microsoft??)
[Eee Pad Transformer General] CrazyPeter:
I wonder how many people will think that Windows 8 on tablets will run Windows applications... Windows 8 is heading for disaster consumer confusion will be the order of the day when Microsoft release 2 versions of Windows 8 that are totally different OSes that run different binary apps.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] v0id_walker:
Yeah, i really do wonder, how many people are going to buy some w8 tablet thinking that they might run any .exe files from their computer :) I believe there will be many flames thx to it. Not to mention the catastrophic amount of application after the launch....

And the impossibility to dualboot any other system -> w8 will be doomed and forgotten on arm.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] knoxploration:
A pretty good percentage, I'd say, and the same is true of Android users. However, that straw man has nothing to do with the topic at hand, which is that Microsoft has had nothing but dismal failure with touchscreen features of every product they've offered.

This is one of the key problems I alluded to, and given the number of people in this very forum who don't understand that issue, the answer is "a lot".
[Eee Pad Transformer General] blestsol:
I'm one. That's actually what I was expecting =[
[Eee Pad Transformer General] asdfuogh:
Apparently, I am one, too. I am sadly mistaken, and was quite bigoted to have thought otherwise.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] moehagene:
We have a ASUS see slate at the hospital that I work at. It runs Windows 7 64bit with a Solid state drive and 2 gigs of ram, able to go to 4 gigs. It is actually a very solid machine, And cost effictive for our hospital. Most doctors have dell xt2 tablets they carry around that are POS, cost around 3500. For like 1200 you can get a slate a eeeslate and keyboard.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] caseyc:
Uh, what? I get that the marketing sucks and they only have like 3 tablets out that run Windows 7 (if that), but that doesn't mean it doesn't work well. I'm obviously not saying it is or ever will be as popular as Android/iOS tablets, hahahah.

Microsoft is an OS developer, and until they manufacture the hardware as well (which won't happen) they're going to have to license Windows to tablet manufacturers who actually want to make them. How many manufacturers want to pay a license for Windows when they can just as easily slap Android on any piece of hardware for free? Not to mention they've had to build Windows tablets using x86 architecture all along which isn't cheap when it's not mass-ordered by every other OEM.

That said, my point was that Windows 7 works surprisingly well as a tablet OS, not that it's going to compete for 1st place with the big boys.

Just as Windows Phone 7 is a relative dud, I'm sure Windows 8 ARM will be as well. Not because the OS doesn't work well on a tablet, but because they are FARRRRRR too late in the game. Popular app developers are just now starting to port their catalog to Android, it's not likely that they are going to consider also porting to Windows on ARM when the user base will be virtually non-existent.

---------- Post added at 09:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 PM ----------

That's a great point, and I'm sure 90% of the people who buy Windows tablets are going to be people who want to take their desktop applications to a mobile platform.

I guess I just saw a glimmer of hope with the Windows 7 tablet I was surprised by in the store, but I'm being reminded how unlikely it is that Microsoft will ever succeed with any sort of a mobile product for regular consumers.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] CrazyPeter:
It's unfortunate, but both Windows 8 in it's tablet form, and Windows Phone 7 are relying on consumer ignorance to succeed.

The Tech news community are the ones at fault here, not highlighting these critical problems with the products, instead banking Microsoft's lucrative "advertising" payments in exchange for saying nice things.

Corporate America ****ing disgusts me. Almost as much as the lack of action by the US government in Microsoft's anti-trust practices.

Looking at the list of categories here, Microsoft have violated most of these at one time, and many they still continue to do so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-competitive_practices
[Eee Pad Transformer General] karlr30:
I am waiting for win 8 Arm tablet

I am one waiting for an arm tablet on windows 8.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] Darkseider:
I was at one point looking forward to Win8 on ARM but after reading about how MS is going to be locking down ARM systems that run Win8 I have no desire any longer. When will MS and for that matter HW manufacturers understand that an ARM tablet is NO different than a white box PC. Leave it open and unlocked and if someone chooses to install Windows, Android, iOS, Linux, etc... let them.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] Trayhem:
@ asdfuogh

Made my Day :)
[Eee Pad Transformer General] Spidey01:
It is different, or will likely be closer to an iPad/Android tablet inside than a x86 PC, as opposed to a tablet PC that is like s/Intel Atom \w\d*/nVidia Tegra 3/g.

Either that or it will weigh a ****ton and blow a lot of hot air.

Beyond that, I agree it is the same -- for us, if not manufacturers.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] BU2T3R:
Damn! I´m sad because of what I've been reading in this topic =(.

But, they made the majority of programs released for Windows older versions compatible with windows Vista ou 7. And they also made the majority of x86 programs work in a x64 OS... So why can´t they do the same thing with this ARM version?

Anyway, if full desktop apps will not be able tu run in this Windows ARM, oh boy! It'll be worse than a giant flop...

Question: The programs running on a x86 Linux Ubuntu, can´t run on a ARM ubuntu?????
[Eee Pad Transformer General] bithir:
The x86 binaries can not run on ARM. However, Linux being open and feeding technical adept people, most x86 binaries can also be compiled to ARM binaries. So, yes, many of the installed binaries of and x86 ubuntu distro can be found for ARM.

Just look at the number of diffrent CPU architectures Linux runs under, from ARM, PPC, x86, sparc, etc. etc. A massive effort that is pretty unrivaled by any commercial OS. Only BSD et. al can compete.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] natostanco:
I don't really think that windows arm would be flamed on for lack of apps support. It depends on the promptness of the sh to release a compatible version of their apps...
[Eee Pad Transformer General] skandalfo:
Actually you get the worst of Windows without getting the best of it.

Long live Linux! ... I mean Android, hehehehe.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] CrazyPeter:
Precisely....

However consumers are idiots, so as long as it's got flashy advertising, Microsoft can sell any old crap. Look at Xbox360 for example. Took 4 years before a working version arrived, and yet foolish Americans lapped it up.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] Dyskmaster:
Sigh, and it will probably be worse when it gets to market and people start saying "wait, so this is, like, my laptop at home" and salesmen and women will reply "yes, this is windows" and that person will buy it thus spurring windows 8 sales through the roof.

But why can't we have the best of both worlds: as in a transformer-like design with the x86 cpu and gpu in the keyboard and an arm chip in the tab part. When you disconnect the tablet it will reboot into the arm version of windows (or switch to it if they are both running simultaneously) That way you get the portability of a tablet, the power of a computer, and app compatibility when you need it. Unfortunately something like that would have either crappy performance and ok battery life, terrible battery life and pretty good performance, or amazing performance great battery life but it weighs a ton and a half.

On a sidenote, it IS windows so it will probably have a lot of apps after launch (think Developers Developers Developers) they just won't be the same as the desktop varients.

Also, in the dev tools, they have a recompiler for x86 apps so you can recompile x86 apps for arm with only a few small changes in the code. Of course, not all apps on windows are compatible for recompiling so there is gunna be some issues in that regaurd.

Or we could have the best of all worlds if intel or amd would make SoCs that don't suck or require a fan but keep the x86 architecture and microsoft doesn't lock down their bootloaders.
[Eee Pad Transformer General] Bob Smith42:
And, because all apps must be distributed via the MS app store?

E.g. NO CAN HAZ PRON 4 U

LOL

;)
[Eee Pad Transformer General] CrazyPeter:
I don't believe that to be true.

On the ARM variant of Windows 8, there is no .NET framework, and it doesn't support traditional Windows applications at all (either binary, or it's window form), it only does "Metro" apps (those silly little squares that look like childrens building blocks).

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-to-drop-desktop-app-from-windows-8-arm-tablets/11325

I think sums things up nicely:
[Eee Pad Transformer General] Dyskmaster:
oh, my bad I guess all .net compatibility is gone in the arm version of windows 8 but if you code a metro app in the new dev tools, you can compile it for both x86 and ARM assuming you don't use any legacy code (strictly c# and HTML5 in your apps). I must have read it wrong because some media outlets portrayed it that you could port a legacy app to arm with little difficulty.

I still think they will sell millions and millions of windows 8 licences no matter how bad it may seem to you because that's what hardware makers will put on their machines. Hate to say it, but windows 8 is going to still be a success no matter how you look at it.

Also, apart from not allowing you to change your background in metro, what don't you like about it in the sense that that will be the display which will meet you when you turn on your tab.:confused:?
[Eee Pad Transformer General] natostanco:
guys, we can't really make such assumptions on how the windows 8 arm version will go. Right now there are no soft supporting arm versions because the market is small, the opensource world supports it more because...well...it is open source :D, as soon as the arm market will grow with the release of windows 8 you'll see all the major software which produces the largely used softwares among windows will start popping out arm versions...imho
[Eee Pad Transformer General] knoxploration:
Chicken and egg.

Nobody will develop much in the way of software for Win8 on ARM (especially big, complicated, meaningful apps) until Win8 is successful enough to guarantee a return on investment. Nobody will buy Win8 on ARM until there's loads of software available, or at least, most of those who buy and then realize will try and get their money back, and/or just not use the operating system they paid for.

Most of what's available at launch will be very small, simple apps, and mountains of shareware junk nobody particularly wants. Mark my words...
[Eee Pad Transformer General] Vyrlokar:
I personally thing that Microsoft shot themselves in the foot when they decided that Arm Windows 8 would not run .NET apps. being able to abstract processor architecture is one of the the two¡ main reason to use a virtual machine with managed code (The other being running on other OSes). You pay a price with a significant amount of overhead due to running instructions on a virtual processor, but then you can support multiple architectures with different endianess without problems.

However, the big issue here is that most .NET apps include some native code, either making them have the worst of both worlds (the performance penalty of running on a virtual machine, and not being portable to other OS/architecture), or use .NET code only for the GUI (and that's because it's the sanest GUI toolkit Microsoft offers).

Making W8/ARM run only Metro apps makes traditional .NET devels second class citizens, and forces them to learn yet another API. Did Microsoft purchase an SCO™ brand Footgun™? (Seems like it's a popular model, since Oracle seems to also own one...)
[Eee Pad Transformer General] Spidey01:
Unless Win8 tablets are close enough to Win8/x86 PC's that people are happy it's never gonna take off. At best it might make a really good dent in the iOS/Android setup when it comes to finding an "App for that".

Now...where the **** is my Android running, ARM powered, desktop with 22" touch screen!
[Eee Pad Transformer General] skandalfo:
Having to support too many API's and the required associated work for ensuring backwards compatibility has been both a curse and a blessing for Microsoft for a long time.

Because of lacking binary compatibility due to the architecture transition (x86 -> ARM) this would have been a good opportunity to leave the legacy behind and to start afresh with a new, sensible platform.

Alas! They did this too many times (win32 -> .NET -> Silverlight -> Metro), and I guess they did not choose the right stopping point either (I can't see people actually using Metro applications on their desktops; they should have chosen some media-adaptable technology instead of forcing a dual paradigm down everyone's throat).

They should have gone with .NET and a media-independent framework (PC, phone, tablet, console...). They will totally fail with their current strategy.

In contrast, I can see ICS Android applications (and games; don't underestimate them as platform adoption drivers) scaling up to (multi user) desktops in a relatively short timeframe and eroding the wintel incumbents...
[Eee Pad Transformer General] D-Buckner:
Hey guys I ran across this article tonight and thought some of you here may be interested.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/...ndows-for-the-arm-processor-architecture.aspx
[Eee Pad Transformer General] Spidey01:
That very much makes me wonder, given the situation: if Microsoft may attempt to ween the world off x86 and onto ARM, and leverage the requirements difference such that an WOA PC will always be WOA, and hope that both X86 PCs with non Windows 8 die out over time.

I really hope ASUS doesn't go strictly Windows 8 on transformer someday, an option or a dual boot at least... I WANT ANDROID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Eee Pad Transformer General] littleemp:
From my post on the same subject in the Touchpad forums:

www.anandtech.com/show/5527/microsoft-provides-windows-on-arm-details

Latest info on it. (2/10/2012)

Short version: no x86 apps on ARM (they have to be installed through Windows own app market), licenses only distributed through OEMs. And don't forget that ALL Windows on ARM tablets will be required to have a locked and signed bootloader.

My opinion: I don't see what the fuzz and excitement is all about Win 8 ARM tablets, they will run in closed, controlled environment that mirrors more Windows Phone 7 than desktop Windows. I can definitely see the less informed people thinking they can essentially port all their laptop experience into a tablet seamlessly, hence the excitement, but once you know what Windows on ARM really is going to be, there isn't much to be excited about.

The only theoretical part where MS could have an argument of a better experience is with their Office suite, and that won't be for long since LibreOffice is coming to android and iOS. (android version is on prototype stage, it was shown working a few days ago).

EDIT: Allow this topic to end once and for all

Source: arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2012/01/windows-8s-locked-bootloaders-much-ado-about-nothing-or-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it.ars
[Eee Pad Transformer General] laslow:
Also note that due to the various ARM architectures, and how Microsoft has built Windows 8 to support them, ARM devices need to meet specific hardware requirements to even boot Windows 8 - chief among them is UEFI, which Android devices don't use.

Although not technically impossible, there is virtually no chance of Windows 8 ever coming to a current Transformer, or indeed any Android-based, tablet.

Edit: Source - http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...on-arm-building-a-common-windows-platform.ars
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] TokedUp:
Ok so I have a DInc (waits for laughing to stop) and am thinking about upgrading. I want the GN real bad but im kind of a HTC guy. anyway Amazon.com has the GN listed for $99 right now and I was wondering if anyone knows if Verizon will match the price? Or if Best Buy will? Also has anyone bought a phone from Amazon before? whats the experience like? If I cant get the price matched do you think I should just get it from Amazon?
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] mbh87:
99 is for new customers I believe, not upgrades.
[Nexus S Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] lardman64:
Hi guys,

I'm a student who did a project proposal using the Nexus S for my final semester for my BSc, thinking that the APIs involved for my project would be easily accessible in the SDK (lol, from my reading so far... not so).

So now that I'm this far in (having bought a Nexus S and being almost 3 weeks in) I cannot change my topic of my study. Now, before I buy any more equipment, can anyone experienced in the field lend me a helping hand with some information?

A function which I thought would be basic, card emulation, is apparently not available. I had planned to use the Nexus S in card emulation mode -- With the help of a reader (ACR122U was being considered) connected to a PC and a mock POS (point of sales) program, I planned to recognise an individual's phone, and add and subtract data from their "accounts" accordingly.

So - since card emulation is not available, what are my options? I would greatly appreciate any one leading me in the right direction with this before I invest more money and time in this.

Thank you much :)
[Nexus S Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] lardman64:
Anybody have any expertise in this at all?
[Nexus S Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] shailentj:
Card Emulation IS possible on the Nexus S, since the NFC Chip (NXP PN65) is present!

Inside Secure's Open NFC enables such functionality.

I haven't found any information on real success in this field though.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] wormbaby11:
Is there a way to only show contacts with phone number like android 2.3? Thanks.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] Salah9:
I need that option too
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] wormbaby11:
I don't see the option in there.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] wayneb02:
My bad I should have been more specific instead of assuming. Put all the contracts that don't have a number into a group and click on customize and make it not show that group..

It's a little bit of work but it's doable
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] wormbaby11:
Ah, Thanks. I'm surprised I didn't think of that.
[HTC Sensation] ddizzy81:
is there a way to clean the dirt and dust from around the screen...the cracks in between the screen and battery housing...there's a lot of stuff in there and I can't reach it

Sent From My HTC Sensation 4G
[HTC Sensation] mrlava:
Take the housing off, clean away the dust, put the housing back on ;)
[HTC Sensation] chrischoi:
When I have free time at work, I take business cards and just scrape away the stuff stuck in the cracks. Edge of the business card is thing enough to go in and scrape and at the same time soft enough to not leave any damage.
[HTC Sensation] :
I've returned 2 devices since Dec 11 for dust under the screen. Weekly cleaning is essential to prevent this. Anyone remember the desire with its clear film cover on the case where the camera fit? Not there on sensation!
[Motorola Droid RAZR] mac208x:
Anyone has these? The spots are all over when the screen turns black like in text msgs or when your about to watch a YouTube video.
[Motorola Droid RAZR] mac208x:
133 ppl and no one has this? Is it a visual thing or a problem with my screen?
[Motorola Droid RAZR] MT4GH:
Wow!! Well thats a new one for the razr ive seen it on the Motorola droid x and the droid x2 but not on the razr, ok 1) u press to hard on the screen 2) ur screen its over heating and its making it look that way 3) do u have ghost armor or some sort of scree protector and its just making it look that way 'my phone has ghost armor and i do have those black spots and yes i already took it off and made sure its not my screen' 4) ur screen its just defective

Sent from my SGH-T989 "hit it! Press thx!:)
[Motorola Droid RAZR] ExtraDan:
well... i have those spots on my device...

take a look on this:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1350233
[Motorola Droid RAZR] mishko:
Same here. I've had the phone since december but didn't notice the "spots" until the other day. Maybe they were there from the start, I don't know. Doesn't really bother me though.
[Motorola Droid RAZR] mac208x:
No I do not press too hard on the screen. My razr hasn't gotten warm at all since I have had it. I got the first shipment of the maxx. I don't have any screen protector. Ill go to Verizon and exchange it for another one.
[Motorola Droid RAZR] mac208x:
if I have to pay another restocking fee for a defective device ama kill someone. At least the splashes don't show up on color just when ur in a dark room or at night and only on black background.
[Motorola Droid RAZR] drolgnir:
]

LOL thats pretty common, if described by Motorola as something that is supposed to be there because of the screen type! I have it in the same conditions as you and others have spoke of. I denied it until I looked hard of enough then seen them, I have forgotten about them until now. Hehe just dont look for them and you'll be alright. ;)
[Motorola Droid RAZR] rlockwich:
It's the screen itself and how it's made. I've read every thread on every board about this issue, and there's a lot of threads. A couple instances of people actually calling Motorola and them telling them its normal. A couple people claimed to have been on their 4th RAZR and it was always there.
[Motorola Droid RAZR] torikorocks:
I'm on my 3rd razr and all of them had black spots but that's not why I replaced them I had stuck pixels.
[Xperia Play Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] neverwinter:
Anyone know of a good compatible wireless headset? One that won't fall off due to jogging or hurrying... I don't mind looking at cheap ones and expensive ones...