yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
Well, to be precise, ASUS never stated that wifi and Bluetooth performance is impacted by the all-metal case. They stated only that GPS is affected by the case, and that's what they've removed from their marketing.

If you can provide a link to where ASUS officially stated that the case is responsible for poor wifi and/or Bluetooth performance, please provide it here.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] GernBlanston:
As a radio/telecomm engineer, I have to say that there's only so much you can do with signal processing in software when your signal with all applicable gains is barely above the noise floor and, in many cases, beneath it. Some of the few ways this can be addressed in software include, for example, lowering the threshold receive signal for a given radio in software, or perhaps tightening up where possible on the signal filtering (which is likely of limited feasibility or an outright impossibility for a consumer-grade hardware/software combo of this ilk).

I don't believe any of these issues will experience wholesale changes due to current or future software tweaks and fixes in firmware.

In other words, I don't believe there's gremlins running around in the firmware; this isn't Asus' first radio rodeo, nor are the radio parts they are using exotic and foreign to the industry such that they are likely to have teething pains of that nature. The simpler explanation is that they've built themselves a Faraday cage for the sake of marketability with an eye toward being lighter, thinner, and cheaper in the same memory configuration than their competition, and they were likely well aware of the performance hit before it even hit stores. It was a trade-off, and for many that trade resulted in untenable degradation in performance....for others, it was the right move to make.

If Asus won't say it, I will. The metal case is either attenuating reception/transmission of both, or it is acting as a trap or a transducer where one operation raises the noise floor for the other.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Diamondback:
I wasn't talking about Wifi or GPS here :) More about serial numbers etc ;)

But you are absolutely right, I am fairly certain that the metal backing does have some influence on every signal.

But I am also 100% sure that the current software does not run correctly.

This is due to several reasons I won't explain now because I am too tired :p

(You may read them somewhere in my other posts/threads)

Anyway, I don't think we need another GPS/Wifi issue thread here :D
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
Ah, yes, you might be entirely correct. However, there's a whole world of difference between you saying it, and ASUS saying it. Folks keep repeating that ASUS has admitted that the all-metal case is causing poor wifi and Bluetooth performance. They haven't: they admitted that GPS is affected by the case, and that they're removing GPS from their marketing because of it.

Think of the impact if they admitted that wifi and Bluetooth performance are also poor because of the case, and yet they're not removing THOSE from their marketing. Bottom line is, I don't they will make such an admission, because any drop in wifi performance isn't so drastic and arguably isn't below the threshold of the fitness of purpose component of their implied warranty. And I'm also not certain that the Prime is worse in terms of simultaneous wifi/BT transmission than many other devices (or Bluetooth in general).

Making such an admission, however, would open them up for a world of hurt if someone takes them to court and claims breach of implied warranty. They might lose that suit anyways, but a public admission of such a breach would of course seal their fate.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] GernBlanston:
I agree with most of your post: I don't think Asus will admit publicly to concerns on the BT/Wifi performance if not for any other reason than these features are practically intrinsic to the function of the tablet and are, at the least, of incredible import for most users...GPS does not enjoy that level of visibility and concern, as demonstrated here.

Just as I take issue with blanket statements like "Asus sucks" or "Prime is a failure", I also take issue with taking a single user's post in these forums on his telephone conversation with an unknown engineer or other Asus representative as a "statement by Asus" that the problems with wifi/bluetooth performance is in software and unaffiliated with hardware concerns. At the most, I'd be willing to concede the remote possibility that there are some minor performance gains to be had via firmware tweaks on these issues. The back of the tablet is aluminum, many people complain about the wireless/BT performance, the wireless/BT antennas are under the aluminum...I'd say "preponderance of the evidence" is well on its way to being met.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] junrider:
I think Asus does not want to publicly admit the other flaws of the prime other than obvious GPS. If they did, they will lose sales and pretty much tell the consumers that they knowingly released a defective device. So its better to admit to one thing and cross it off in the specs than publicly admitting to a list of things and lose all credibility and have to do a recall. Just my thoughts.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
Just came across this post at another forum. Seems like there's a potential fix that could alleviate much of the drop in wifi performance. Doesn't specify what the fix is, but it certainly looks like the Prime is entirely capable of performing at or close enough to other devices in terms of wifi.

Not GPS, apparently, but we know that. And I'm still looking for evidence that Bluetooth performance is actually bad on the Prime. Seems to me like that one just gets lumped in there as if it's a fact, when plenty of evidence has been supplied that the Prime isn't better or worse in this regard.

http://androidforums.com/asus-eee-p...asus-has-fix-wi-fi-now-how-do-we-get-lol.html
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] junrider:
Hahaha.. funny sh!t. Are you sure you gus are the masses, and we are the minority?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
If it's not quoted specifically, how about:

1) Asus' admission of wireless issues due to the back cover (GPS).

2) Asus' next tablets moving away from the design.

3) The addition of a second antenna which, for the added expense and mixed result, had to be compensating for something.

4) Anand's editorial findings in comparing against the TF1.

5) HTC having issues with the aluminum-backed Sensation and subsequently moving away from the design.

6) Wi-Fi being worse on the iPad2 vs. iPad1 with the removal of the plastic window.

7) Wide swings in the Prime's Wi-Fi performance based on conditions.

8) YouTube side-by-side comparison to the TF1 in varying scenarios showing the Prime having issues maintaining a strong and continuous signal.

If the back cover were on trial for murder, there's enough evidence to put it away for life. ;)

---------- Post added at 05:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:01 PM ----------

Everyone speaks about Wi-Fi, GPS, and BT as if they're totally unrelated. They're impacting each other in the closed environment created by the metal case and, in the case of BT and Wi-Fi on the same frequency, competiting with each other. My guess is that in order to get through the metal back, Wi-Fi and BT are both amped up and that's why they're conflicting. Further amping up Wi-Fi stands to make BT worse and vice versa. Now that we have a

real

h/w engineer commenting, what are your thoughts GernBlanston?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] mike infinity:
Claims like that are in contradiction to the data I have collected...and many other posters. I, for one, am surprised at the number of posters here who only believe claims of poor performance, ignore the rest...and then make claims of a general design flaw.

The bottom line is performance. At 40 ft, two walls, and one floor away my prime does better than ipad 1...par with my laptop...and maybe 10-15% worse than my tf101. I have run probably 100 tests across a variety of devices and find the prime average in performance against devices of various design. I have no issue with performance combined with bt audio.

So the proof is in the pudding. Maybe there are some batches of primes where there is a hardware issue with antenna performance. Mine...metal back and all...is just fine.

So if Asus can make some tf201s with adequate (15-30mbps at 20- 60 feet with obstructions including a metal doors) then the metal back is simply a non issue...and I know of several posters who have had as good or better performance than me with their prime and wifi.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Yes, but just your pudding, not all pudding produced.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] junrider:
hahah I have tested 5 primes.. all have full bars at being close to the router, step four feet away and I drop 1 bar. no obstruction. The I pad2 at 10ft away still has full strength. Tried it at work and a different router. Router is on the second floor maybe 20 ft away and Im on the first floor. Side by side I borrowed a friend's prime and my prime both shows 2 bars, while my ipad2 still full bars. So there is proof in my pudding.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] gogol:
So, basically you are admitting your Prime wifi performance is worse compared to TF101 ... and in the same time you are saying other claims are wrong (your first sentence)?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] mike infinity:
Yes but the fact that my prime...and others who have posted here are getting good wifi performance proves

1. That at least some batches work.

2. That you can have good performance with a metal back.

After hundred plus speedtests...zero streaming issues with HD content plus bt audio...and if you search these threads you will find all my shootout comparisons...and many other posters who have done as well or better....these conclusions are well founded.

You have a bad unit...perhaps from a big batch of bad units.

Not all of us have a bad unit. Is that so hard to accept?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] mike infinity:
Tf101 bested every single device I tested including my laptop. Should I return my laptop to Toshiba, my ipad 1 to apple, and my galaxy nexus to Samsung because none of them scored as high on a speedtest as the tf101?

All of them are more than adequate...the tf101 has an above average antenna according to all my tests. The tf201 was right in the mix with the rest of them.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] grneyez:
You are absolutely correct.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] gogol:
No, but your statements were confusing and inconsistent.

What you are saying is no different, Prime has weak WiFi as tested by many others and proved by your TF101 as well.

And that's not a contradiction as you said there.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
You realize in defending one issue (the metal back) you're pointing to one that's probably even more serious. Why should any mass produced electronic device have such deviations from one example to another (if in fact they do)? If what you're saying is true, and to get a decent specimen you have to buy five and return four, Asus' earnings and reputation will get tanked. And say what you will, Asus had no major Wi-Fi and/or BT issues with their previous devices. The only thing different about the Prime that's a first for Asus is the metal back cover and Teg3 chip (ICS doesn't count because the issues existed when the Prime was on HC). Of the two, I'd say the chip being the sudden cause for one Asus device to perform below all their others is probably a long shot. And Asus abondoning the design (TF700) less than three weeks after the Prime was released means they're not too thrilled with the metal back cover either. Start watching the official video below at 0:55 to hear them confirm it.

[YOUTUBE]q5QG6U-8g1E[/YOUTUBE]

Disregard the comments about continuing to sell the Prime along side the TF700 and saying the Prime has "good" wireless. What would you expect them to say when they're still trying to sell it?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] richaoj:
I think that alot of people on these forums don't realize that production is not going to be perfect, especially early on. Yes, ASUS could have done more/better quality control from the beginning, but I completely understand they were trying to get a product to market that had been delayed for a while. They probably rushed things. My first prime had terrible light bleed, but you know what, I exchanged it and got another that is fine. When someone complains that "30 or 40" users have a particular problem, that is a very small percent of the whole. I challenge you to look at the following failure rates for various companies:

http://m.lifehacker.com/5524704/laptop+reliability-study-highlights-the-most-sturdy-laptop-makers

I quote, " ASUS and Toshiba were the most reliable manufacturers, with fewer than 16% having a hardware malfunction"

So 16% is the best in the industry! (Perhaps that speaks to the industry, but that is simply the way it is.) I know this is a study of laptops, and obviously the prime is not a laptop, but put into this context, the small number of users experiencing the problems described in the flame ASUS threads is completely standard to this industry. I know, it really sucks if your fancy new toy comes broken in some way, but that's simply the way it is sometimes.

The GPS issue aside, ASUS has been doing a good job in dealing with these problems. Directly engaging with the customers on XDA is flippin sweet. I completely agree with the OP: in an industry where 16% failure is normal, flaming ASUS for the problems that are described in these threads is not only silly and naive, it is simply irresponsible towards the rest of the prime commmunity.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] GernBlanston:
16% is the best in laptops, having significantly more moving parts and mechanical features, in a three-year ownership period, not within a month of release. With approximately one third of those being accidental damage. In this thread, we're talking about a single issue that seems to affect, what, about 10% of users of this forum? 5%? And that's only those who find reason to complain; There are likely significantly more experiencing reduced levels and throughput who don't realize it or care. There's no way you can extrapolate that 16 percent you quoted to the broad range of possible failures, accidental or otherwise, over three years in the Prime, much less to a single specific issue being noted frequently 30 days after release.

And yeah, i agree it`s awesome Asus are here to address various concerns, and I do encourage people to take avenues such as their return policy, RMA, etc.,rather than complain incessantly....just that those options are not always available.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] dmbatson:
Asus refreshed my faith in them. I RMA'd my device on Jan 11 got it back today well it was a new device . New box everything. I was like.... okay?

Now just to get my keyboard dock.

Sorry if sloppy @ work. Down time at circle k..
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] mike infinity:
How can you possibly get that from my post?

Let me be plain.

My tf201 tested with speedtest from 5-60feet plus with multiple walls...even metal doors between it and the router...at my place of work and elsewhere with high bandwidth wifi scored

EQUAL. to a 2011 Toshiba laptop at close and long range and equal to a dell i7 laptop as well.

BETTER than an ipad1 10-15% in many cases

Much better than my galaxy nexus

Better than various other phones and friends tablets in most cases...

The tf101 scored highest of all...so can we conclude that the entire above list is weak wifi? If that is your criterion then just as soon as someone invents a tablet that bests the tf101 you better head straight over to tf101 forum and start a thread on how weak its wifi has become.

Bottom line? At 60ft with obstructions my tf201 can stream 1080p HD video plus bt audio without stuttering one bit.

Call that weak if you want...it only proves what anyone can spot as an obvious bias on your part.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] gogol:
Go back to your first post that I quoted. You ditched all other claims that Prime wifi is weak, while in the same time saying your Prime wifi performance is less than og tf, which is weak. In fact, some of those claims that you disagree were testing against og tf.

See that contradiction?

If you still dont get it, then I cant help.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Col.Kernel:
And that just proves my point. Your expectations/needs are completely different from mine.

I'm not saying that one viewpoint is valid and the other is not, nor am I trolling.

I'm saying I paid almost $800 (including shipping) for a tool and I expect it to work. If I had paid that much for any other tool I would expect it to work as well.

As long as the WiFi will connect in the environs I need it to I couldn't care less about what the review sites say. Any other manufacturing issues will be RMA'd.

The issue here is that Asus did not perform what we call "due diligence" in their engineering QA or in their QA/QC testing. Nor did they front load their production line/supply chain properly to meet the demand of a highly hyped device.

So demand was high, supply was/is low, and many products had numerous defects. Since many of us have limited discretionary income some sold "older" devices to upgrade to the new hotness. Only to find out that the "older" device worked better than the much hyped Prime.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Primalwolf:
I got my prime from gamestop on the 22nd of December. I can honestly say other than the bootloader thing thing I am happy with the product and have had no problems. I am not dismissing the problems others have had but I have had iphones and tv's that had problems when I bought them. Asus has atleast owned their mistakes and are working to fix the issue.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] junrider:
Did you put the new prime directly from Asus through the test? wifi, bluetooth, GPS, light bleed,all the latest updates, etc...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] -eth-:
I'd like to say that the bluetooth+WiFi speed problem is in no way limited to this device - I have an iPhone 3GS, which has exactly the same issue. When listening to music via a bluetooth headset, the WiFi speed drops dramatically or even sometimes the music skips.

Just wanted to add some proof to the people saying this would never happen to an apple product ;)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] sledgie:
BB0? BC0? Something different?

Let us know please
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Diamondback:
Nope, posting these issues on XDA is totally fine.

I am just pointing out, that overdrawing the issues, telling media that the Prime has unfixable huge problems (the serialnumber issue, the ICS software problems), without telling that these issues all will be resolved sooner or later, is the wrong way in handling those issues.

I already said that several times, you can't expect any kind of real reaction to problems from ASUS within a week.

That is just not possible. Issues need to be discussed with the proper guys in the management, some kind of fix needs to be found, then the PR guys need to make a statement.

People here are expecting that some indian PR phone guy can tell them everything they want to know, they might even expect that this guy just writes some new code to fix everything.

Everyone who thinks like that just has a completely unrealistic view of how this stuff works. The bigger the company the more time they need to react to problems etc. There are of course exceptions but this is the general rule.

My point is not to keep the issues secret, but to help ASUS fix them. We don't need ****storms in this case. We just need to wait for ASUS and how they are planning to resolve this (keep the extended warranty and refund action in mind)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
No, he has the ability to think rationally.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
The only two "****storms" I've seen were the #neveragainSamsung drive to get them to address the SGS1 GPS issue(s) and the #neveragainLG drive because the O2X/G2X kept rebooting. Objectively, don't you think some of what's being discussed here is equally significant, at least to the people behind the ****storms?

And the #unlockmybootloader drive did damage too but the outcome was deemed beneficial so everyone thought that the very public demeaning of Asus and the Prime was OK. Isn't that a double standard?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Now see, that's how problems get blown out of proportion. All you need to do is disable "N" so all of the devices you use run more slowly and change the channel on your router to one that competes with your neighbors. After that, your Prime will run almost as well as your TF1. And BT is a highly overrated technology.

Sorry, couldn't help myself. ;)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jonny68:
I was very excited about this product but after reading all the issues on here i am going to hold off for a good while until these issues are all fully resolved i refuse to spend big money on a product which has so many issues not that the Prime is even easy to come by here and in the UK either.

Hopefully by the end of February all issues will be resolved ill keep a keen eye on this forum anyway.;)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jordache16:
100% agree. I was actually thinking of making a thread like this after seeing all the bad press ASUS is getting from people who are blowing things way out of proportion (ASUS's facebook page, forums, product reviews on Amazon, BB, etc.)

However, it did make me wonder what would happen if this were an Apple product launch. Can you imagine how pissed people would be if the iPad 3 launch went anything like the Prime's?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jonny68:
I do believe ASUS have to shoulder the blame 100%, they marketed a product as being the best Tablet released to date and the specs are highly impressive so everyone got excited and those lucky (or should that be unlucky) to have got one as they appear to be in short supply in certain countries are having major issues, they should have tested this product much more intensively than they did before it was released, having said all of that it is good to see that they have acknowledged the problems and even got one of their people to post on here whereas a lot of similar companies would never dream of doing anything like that,i just hope for the sake of the people who do have a Prime that the issues are resolved soon and for those of of us who haven;t yet got one so we can purchase with peace of mind because at present there is no way i will be until all issues resolved.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] RipplingHurst:
One of the ways to make one heard is to go to the press. It's the best way to do it really. Just complaining to the Asus may not have been enough. But spreading the word, cannot be reprehended.

Anyone one notice the irony of such stupid OP when XDA was going dark for fear of being silenced?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
But are they? Who's to say? There's obviously enough people that feel that way that it's making a dent otherwise OP wouldn't have needed to start this thread. In a way, look at it as a litmus test of how big the issues are so it's probably safe to assume it's not just a handful of renegade users with unrealistic expectations.