yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HTC EVO 3D] ckoadiyn:
I'm sorry I don't trust the faa they are the biggest group of liars o don't have cells or WiFi on n now planes have WiFi for internet. Makes ZERO sense to me what they decided to magically figure a way so it doesn't "mess" with their stuff and the report on fuel and deaths is total made up numbers and bull****. People got around forever without gps and still could reason faa doesn't support this the airlines are greedy sobs and none of the airlines can manage their money that's why they always are raising prices and needing help.
[HTC EVO 3D] sgt. slaughter:
Sorry bud I'm not reading your bs there when you say I don't know **** when i likely know more than u do on it. FACT lightsquared was given their spectrum and the current GPS devices signals spread onto THEIR spectrum which causes the interference.

Lightsquared was provisioned to use X spctrum which GPS currently spreads into and GPS ppl.didn't fix their shot in time

Read up on this please.
[HTC EVO 3D] afazel:
FACT LightSquared was granted a waiver to use their low-power SATELLITE frequency for a terrestrial mobile network buildout IF they could do it without interfering with GPS.

This goes very deep, and in the end it comes down to some guys at the FCC who told LightSquared they could do it, and are now playing cya when GPS became an issue.

Are GPS receivers "listening" outside the normal gps band? Yes. Are they allowed to do this? Technically yes, because they're just listening. Is it a good idea for them to do this? Technologically, yes because of red/blue shift it increases accuracy of gps location.

GPS isn't doing anything wrong, and LightSquared isn't really doing anything wrong either, but they were granted a provisional waiver, and could not satisfy those provisions.

End of story.
[HTC EVO 3D] EniGmA1987:
That doesnt make much sense to me. There are some open frequencies to use for private stuff and below a certain power amount, and there are blocks of frequencies sold by the FCC to a company. How does GPS stuff use one frequency for a LONG time and then suddenly Lightsquared owns it now and other people are encroaching? GPS was around long before this new company and is used for far more important things than 4G data. So Lightsquared has no right to interfere with GPS and should have used a differency frequency band
[HTC EVO 3D] cruise350:
Lightsquared has no defense here, the bought a spectrum that is designated for a different purpose then what they intended to use it for and got caught when they bribed Obama and his cronies at the FCC. It's that simple, they had no right to build a terrestrial network based on that spectrum and now they are done.

“LightSquared did not pay for and does not have a ‘legal right’ to build a nationwide terrestrial network in the MSS band.” MSS stands for mobile satellite spectrum, a quiet corner of the radio band reserved for very low power satellite-to-earth signals, such as GPS.

---------- Post added at 11:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 AM ----------

I think you need to read, the MSS spectrum they bought is for satellite to earth communication not a terrestrial network. If they used the spectrum as it was intended they would not be interfering with gps. They thought they could do an end around on all the other network providers by buying up a cheap defunct satellite communications company than bribe the fcc and Obama's campaign war chest and people would look the other way while they built a terrestrial network on the MSS band. They probably would have got away with it if it didn't interfere with gps. If lightsquared had played fair, and bought the proper spectrum for its purpose there wouldn't be a problem. They gambled and lost.

---------- Post added at 11:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 AM ----------

Well, first off it is the FCC that prevents usage of cell phones on airplanes. As far as the other electronic devices, I agree that most of them don't interfere with functions on the airplane. but some due, how many of you have had a gsm phone and gotten close to a speaker and heard the interference it produces. Blackberry's throw all kinds of electronic noise off of them. One of our helicopters would get a fire warning light after take off everytime they flew this one client. After some investigation, Turned out he was leaving his Blackberry on in his case and the fire sensor circuitry was right under his bag when he turned off his blackberry the fire warning light went out. I'm not saying they all do this, but beneath the floor of an airplane is where all the wiring is. You can't say for sure that one of your electrical devices won't cause a problem. Takeoff and landing is where 90% of all crashed occur so wouldn't it make sense to limit the risk of interference at that time.

On another note, our company has just received approval to use Ipads in the cockpit to replace all our paper charts. But, before we can use them each Ipad must be sent out and tested for EMI and Pressurization failures. We've sent in over 200 Ipads to be tested so far and 2 of them came back with unacceptable EMI emissions so just because one is good doesn't mean they all are good.
[HTC EVO 3D] ckoadiyn:
Just so u know LightSquared controls 59 MHz of the United States spectrum (1525-1559 MHz) and received FCC authorization in 2004 to use this L-Band spectrum to build its nationwide 4G-LTE wireless broadband network integrated with satellite coverage.

It wasn't under Obama they got approved it was that crooked sob bush

Edit: also from what I read their sats spectrum was a agreement with inmarsat which is already for data/phone service with the military so I'm still not seeing the problem.

Ps thanks for some of the info about fcc n interference.
[HTC EVO 3D] ckoadiyn:
Also if I may add inmarsat sucks after being a it for 4 yrs in the military on a destroyer it was the worst connection and our slowest out of all of them. Part of the connection issues was due to piss poor engineering of the ship but yeah just wanted to throw that out their.

Ps it was slower then dialup for the internet
[HTC EVO 3D] thesparky007:
its ****ing amazing watching all of this unfold...

the power of corporations and the confidence of the people that run them is ridiculous....

how can a company like light squared have the ****ing guts to even think about pushing over such an important and well established essential system like gps?!!

i find it utterly appalling that such an idea even got this far...
[HTC EVO 3D] sgt. slaughter:
Still not getting how your saying they are at fault for causing interference if they are operating inside their specified spectrum?
[HTC EVO 3D] ckoadiyn:
Me neither seeing how this plan was approved in 2004 maybe a little sooner. N the companies are saying it would take 10-14 yrs? It's 2012 they should be partly done with fixing the problems.
[HTC EVO 3D] sgt. slaughter:
YES this is my main argument about it and also lack of understanding the other posters point on the whole thing.

FACT is they were given approval to the spectrum and also to use/test it. FACT that the FCC set out a specific date for Lightsquared to have it up and running by too, and specifically put it further out to give GPS companies time to adjust devices for the changes being done.

Thing is they just sat on their azz this whole time and didn't change squat and now that its crunch time they are complaining about it. BUT b/c they have much deeper pockets than Lightsquared does and also have ppl sitting on the panels testing this stuff which have vested interest in GPS devices(see the articles i linked before) this is almost impossible win for Lightsquared. Least it seems that way right now.
[HTC EVO 3D] Whosdaman:
It doesn't effect any of sprints plans. They just won't have 1600 for lte usage
[HTC EVO 3D] ckoadiyn:
Which sucks cause it would have helped since Sprint has the worse spectrum out of all the carriers. Outside of their Nextel spectrum
[HTC EVO 3D] tailsthecat3:
Really? Dont think so. This will have a significant impact on sprints upgrade plans. They were gonna use Lightsquared for their LTE. Now lightsquared doesnt have the money to build the network. So how can you say this wont affect sprints plans? Now Sprint has to find some other company to rent from because they surely dont have the funds or investors to build their own.

http://tinyurl.com/7fwolwy
[HTC EVO 3D] Whosdaman:
That's not true at all. Lightsquared was paying sprint to rollout their lte network for them. In exchange sprint could use it. Sprint is still rolling out their lte network on 800, 1900, and 2500 mhz
[HTC EVO 3D] sgt. slaughter:
um yes and no, but mroe so no.

They were going to use Lightsquared WITH their own LTE. Lightsquared was going to share with Sprint and each other would be able to use both networks in the agreement. Think of Lightsquared as Clear in a sense with the agreement kinda. Now toss on the fact that Sprint is ALSO building their OWN LTE network, it really doesn't matter in the long run for them. Only thing it would matter is that the Lightsquared agreement plan would help sprint in the bandwidth area and allow them more overall in a sense.
[HTC EVO 3D] tailsthecat3:
]

Ive seen nothing proving that Sprint is constructing their own lte network. Sprint is broke. Why you think the clearwire, lightsquared debacle? Keep the info flowing. Thanks.
[HTC EVO 3D] Whosdaman:
Lightsquared was nothing like clearwire. Lightsquared is paying sprint to rollout their network. Sprint is paying clearwire to use their network that they are rolling out themselves
[HTC EVO 3D] Whosdaman:
Sprint has just lit up 4 cities with their own LTE network on 1900 mhz
[HTC EVO 3D] sgt. slaughter:
it is in the sense that they are going to be sharing the same network like they do with Clear. But yes different. I should of worded it differently.
[HTC EVO 3D] Whosdaman:
They were only going to be sharing the 1600mhz frequency and that's it. Sprint will still have 800 1900 and clear lte on 2500
[HTC EVO 3D] sgt. slaughter:
again yes i know this and agree with you. hence they only shared the 2.5 with Clear for WiMax.

there are some differences but there are some similarities with the two agreements in a sense.
[HTC EVO 3D] tailsthecat3:
Ah yes! I saw that! However, I didnt see anything that mentioned it was Sprint owned and operated. So these are the first markets in which they have decommissioned the 1900 for cdma and moved lte onto it? So if 1900 is no longer used for cdma in these markets...what of the current customers and their handsets? LESS network??! Im really having a hard time not hating myself when I give them my money.
[HTC EVO 3D] Whosdaman:
No no, they are sharing the frequency. The new multi mode base stations allow for numerous network to run on the same frequency. 800 and 1900 will be used for voice, data and lte. 2500 will be used exclusively for 4G only
[HTC EVO 3D] WatermelonSlim:
I have a baseball bat. I am legally free to use it whenever I want.

If I beat someone to death with it, I will go to jail.

If I use it for its intended purpose, I can use it whenever I want with no legal issues.

If I use it in self defense, I can beat someone to death with it without going to jail.

So I can use it for its intended purpose with little restrictions, and if I meet certain provisions I can use it for purposes that it wasn't intended for too.

This Lightsquared situation is similar. They bought some spectrum that was designed for use by low power satellites. They are free to use this spectrum the way it was intended to be used.

Lightsquared wants to use the spectrum in a way that it was not intended to be used (terrestrial network). They were told they could do this, provided they can make it work without interfering with GPS usage.

They were not able to meet the provisions. End of story, and no debate needed.

It doesn't matter why they weren't able to meet the provisions. It doesn't matter who's fault it is that there is interference. The only thing that matters is there IS interference.

It's not up to me, you, Joe Schmoe, company x, etc, to replace ALL of our existing GPS units just so Lightsquared can use some spectrum in a way that it was not intended to be used. It's up to Lightsquared to make that spectrum work in that manner without disrupting anything else.

Otherwise, they are free to use the spectrum the way it was intended to be used.
[HTC EVO 3D] felacio:
your metaphor almost works, except in many states, like the one I live in, even if you kill someone in self-defense you still go to jail.

just saying. lol
[HTC EVO 3D] tailsthecat3:
Thats right, I read that last year sometime.

Ah, sounds like congestion. I dont know how long I can hold out for sprint to have a consistent network...
[HTC EVO 3D] cruise350:
2004????? Lightsquared didn't buy their spectrum until 2009. GPS had no clue that some rogue company was going to buy a low powered MSS spectrum and then run a high powered terrestrial network. The thing of it is, they gambled and lost. I hope you weren't a stock holder. Companies that play by the rules tend to still be in business. Do you really think the other major players in this industry were going to let lightsquared buy their spectrum for 10 billion when they had to pay 70 billion for their spectrum.
[HTC EVO 3D] sgt. slaughter:
Dunno where your info is from but is was '04 according to their wiki...
[HTC EVO 3D] Whosdaman:
Yes, that's why the data speeds are slowing down right now due to the off loading. Once everything is enabled and the new prls are rolled out, we will see a dramatic increase in 3g speed and voice performance with the new device that have the 1x Advanced support
[HTC EVO 3D] sgt. slaughter:
PRL's? doubt they will be seen with increasing data speeds less your roaming.

Though NetworkVision rollout will increase a ton of coverage for Sprint and help overall things until they actually address the capacity issues at the base of the towers itself in specific areas you will still have slow speeds. the decrease is 3g speed is purely b/c of towers right now being over capacity. I've been told this in detail by many senior advanced techs(NOT the typical call center joe you get when you call) some in the field itself.

Example my home is literally 0.5mi from the tower it connects to and I get absolute jack speeds. Reason being, is that they did not plan for the data flow increase and the tower is greatly over capacity along with others in the area. no amount of "network vision" upgrades to the tower will fix that unless the backhaul is added as well, which is seperate from the network vision rollouts, though may coincide at some of the times.

Overall in the end they know what the problem is and are working to fix it, though at a slower pace than most of us would want. (example, my tower doesn't get its extra line run in for capacity till beg of April.)

I do agree that once everything is said and done it will be leaps and bounds better for everyone. Just have to get there and its going to happen in many many many small stages/steps.
[HTC EVO 3D] Whosdaman:
Prls are not for roaming only. They tell the device which towers to connect to for on network as well.
[HTC EVO 3D] accord99:
That is somewhat inaccurate, since LS didn't come into existence until 2010 when it purchased assets of SkyTerra and the LTE standard wasn't finalized until 2008.

What SkyTerra received was in 2003 was a waiver to allow it to build some terrestrial transmitters for an ancillary terrestrial component (ATC) to complement its satellite service. However, the FCC made it clear that it was not meant to be used for a full terrestrial network:

"The Commission will authorize MSS ATC subject to conditions that

ensure that the added terrestrial component remains ancillary to the

principal MSS offering. The Commission does not intend, nor will it

permit, the terrestrial component to become a stand-alone service."

And there are existing Federal regulations already in place that ATC operators must ensure that they do not interfere with other users in the 1.5-1.6 GHz frequency band.

"If harmful interference is caused to other services by ancillary MSS ATC

operations, either from ATC base stations or mobile terminals, the MSS

ATC operator must resolve any such interference. If the MSS ATC operator

claims to have resolved the interference and other operators claim that

interference has not been resolved, then the parties to the dispute may

petition the Commission for a resolution of their claims."
[HTC EVO 3D] :
I was gonna read but this thread turned into a paragraph battle. It's like a textbook in here lmao

My Blog: knowledgexswag.tumblr.com

Twitter: @knowledge561
[HTC EVO 3D] ckoadiyn:
Kind of weird comin from a person with handle knowledge lol
[HTC EVO 3D] sgt. slaughter:
lil more info on this now...

http://www.bgr.com/2012/01/18/lightsquared-and-former-fcc-chief-engineer-say-gps-tests-were-rigged/
[HTC EVO 3D] EniGmA1987:
I dont see why you are pushing that Lightsquared is in the right so hard here. Do you have interest in their company or something?

So the GPS devices used in the tests were rigged by both the manufacturers of those units AND the government end users? End users can barely tie their shoe let alone know the internals of a GPS unit to pick only ones susceptible to the interference.

Furthuremore, have you seen what the government uses? It doesnt matter if things are SUPPOSED to be obsolete now days, the government will still be using it for decades.

Lightsquared didn't plan out what they were doing, and are paying for their huge mistake. Simple as that.
[HTC EVO 3D] sgt. slaughter:
nope no reason other than wanting Sprint to have all the help they can, hence me wanting this to come out working.

Did you not read the part about them testing the devices while using triple the power Lightsquare is going to use to begin with too?

Theres a ton of money tied up in GPS and that area which makes the field uneven for lightsquare.

if your with sprint then you oughta be hoping they get it approved at some point as well as it only benefits us in the end.
[HTC EVO 3D] EniGmA1987:
It may help Sprint, but it will hurt a lot of others. Not worth it to screw over a bunch of other people just so a greedy company who broke the rules can help Sprint out.
[HTC EVO 3D] WatermelonSlim:
Totally agreed. Plus, it's not like this is the only possible solution for Sprint. Sprint has plenty of other options to fix their crappy network. And if they don't fix it, I'll just drop them and move to another carrier that actually has a good network. I don't have a lifetime contract written in blood with Sprint.
[HTC EVO 3D] ckoadiyn:
What's up with everyone taking the gps peoples side? Gps is established and has billions of dollars. This is like apple vs every smartphone maker.

Ls deserves a chance to use their business
[HTC EVO 3D] cobraboy85:
wow...

perfect example of how corporations play the game to stifle competition. that is ridiculous.
[HTC EVO 3D] sgt. slaughter:
This is your assumption and your no better than the big corps with this mind of thinking. Of course i dont want to hurt a lot of others but thats what Lightsquare is trying to show that it doesn't hurt those when run like they intend to run it. Even going as far as offering ppl with the old old old old devices with poor filters on them a free program to fix them.
[HTC EVO 3D] xTONEx:
If people read up on it all u would see ls is getting shafted. How did they pass tests done prior to this when all parties agreed on the testing phases... But yet they failed tests privately done by the gps and govt officals. $$$ Is the key to that answer! Anyone siding with the gps companies here should really delete ur xda accounts. And go back to reading newspapers...
[HTC EVO 3D] cruise350:
I bet you would be the first one crying when your gps didn't work on your phone. LS tried to backdoor their deal and it didn't work. Now they can go out and buy a frequency spectrum that was intended for broadband use like the rest of its competitors and stop the whining.
[HTC EVO 3D] afazel:
This has nothing to do with competition. High-precision GPS receivers listen outside of the standard GPS band to account for red and blue shift. For those who don't know, this red and blue shift is from the Doppler effect and has to do with the motion of the satellite as it orbits the earth. As it is moving towards the receiver the wavelength is made shorter causing a blue shift. As it moves away from the receiver the wavelength is made longer causing a red shift.

That's why the high-precision receivers listen outside their range.

If LightSquared was using the spectrum as intended, this wouldn't be a problem for GPS receivers because it would be another low-power satellite transmission. They were granted a waiver to use a terrestrial network to supplement their satellite network as long as it didn't interfere with GPS.

They failed at that. Their initial testing broke GPS. Then, the solution they offered to prevent the breakage was for GPS manufacturers or owners of the receivers to purchase and install a filter so that the LightSquared transmissions didn't cause interference. Not the best solution for a problem they caused.
[HTC EVO 3D] Whosdaman:
Lightsquared didn't break the rules. They even invented a product that allows for 1.6 to be used without interfering with gps
[HTC EVO 3D] accord99:
The government used precisely the publicly stated power level of 1500W used by LS's second network configuration, after the June 2011 test results showed LS's first network configuration would interfere with all forms of GPS.

It's not the government's fault that LS keeps on changing its network configuration well after the test parameters were finalized or even after the tests were done. And these power levels were temporary and scheduled to increase over time.

---------- Post added at 01:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:08 PM ----------

That's because LS never passed any tests, LS's network completely failed the extensive and expensive tests conducted in the first half of 2011, a testing process in which LS were leading.

And after the FAA's tests, they have stated that LS will cause many billions of dollars of damage to the aviation industry and be responsible for an additional 800 deaths over 10 years.
[HTC EVO 3D] Whosdaman:
Where the hell did faa come up with that info?

How about they hire better aviators and air controllers
[HTC EVO 3D] sgt. slaughter:
Really?? According to that article i linked back they passed their tests and it was only when the gvt did their own "PRIVATE" tests that it failed in which they used older spec hardware not made anymore and also used transmit power 32x the level Lightsquare is going to be using and stated such.

When you come in and make claims like that please at least include a link to what you are referring to where you possibly came up with that info.
[HTC EVO 3D] cobraboy85:
nice statistics bro. you sound like a huge tool. it's pretty obvious they are getting shafted diliberately.

"our analysis of the sytem indicates many billlions of dollars."

you sound so dumb right now. please leave.