yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] markimar:
Just wish there was a way to make a round window in the backing like apple has around the asus logo and put plastic plug in.....

This could have been a ground breaking product. In my opinion they have ruined their reputation with this fiasco. I have a feeling within the next three months we'll be seeing primes coming out with some type of plastic window. Which of course it will be too late for us to return ours. When you put out a wifi only version the wifi better work flawlessly.

Isn't there some typ of spray coating they could have used on the inside of the backing or on the outside to help in radio reception?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] gogol:
Well, if there is aftermarket plastic back plate, question is how to replace it? I don't think that is an easy task. I expect there is no screw or something easy that we can crack open using common tool (screw driver).

To be honest, if I were ASUS, I will stop current production and change the back plate design. Several options:

1. Put rounded "window" patch from plastic large enough in the antenna area. Or something like the 3G model of Apple iPad with that black bar patch.

2. Put some kind of (speaker) grill there for aesthetic design :) and hide the plastic patch underneath it.

Not the whole back plate though.

Probably this will cost a lot of money to "change" their current order of (millions) back plate, but I think changing this is much better for their future product image/ reputation, rather than selling as it is now.

Granted, not all people do care with crap GPS (I don't care! I wont use it as car navigation), but for example with WiFi. Current situation, put people in "doubt". Even though many tests proved WiFi is OK, not great, but sufficient enough. However, the doubt feeling is there ... "Will the WiFi good enough at my house?" ... knowing the device is NOT designed perfectly ...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Falhawk:
That Anandtech article is great. I like how he points out the the ipad 2 wifi model doesn't support GPS either.

That's what I've got my phone for.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
thanks for the link to that article. it was a good read. as far as the redisign goes, I'd side with what the Anandtech guy said and that it would be highly unlikely. too many units have been pushed out already. plus its main comoetitior, the wifi only ipad2 doesn't even have a GPS chip in it. only the 3g one. also the ipad2 having less wifi range than original Ipad based on placement of wifi antenna near speaker grill was a new one. if there is a redesign, it'll be down the road. too many units are being sold at a fast rate to stop production and redesign. despite the GPS flaw, this device is still selling like hotcakes. everywhere sells out instantly once available online. there are tons of people on backorder still. I still feel lucky to be able to own one so early. I'd do it all over again if I could.

now what would be cool is if Asus send us a voucher or something for a free 32gb memory card or major discount on a dock or something. I'd gladly take that instead.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] fuzzer:
because it doesn't have a GPS receiver...not a valid comparison, he only stated this for "popularity" not functionality...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] nyijedi:
I know you meant return it to the store you purchased it from, but the Prime has a 1 year warranty from Asus.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
It's really not simple in business perspective. Asus really needs to be creative with their design because:

1. Prime got a lot of publicity for Aluminum backplate (they can't just replace the whole thing with plastic cover)

2. Apple patents.. Simply attaching RF window & Asus plastic cover to the likes of iPad 2 simply screams of lawsuit from Apple.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
Asus reputation not ruined. The Prime is still the most desired and hard to find tablet out now. Despite GPS flaw, its still ground breaking technology. the GPS doesn't hold any weight when it comes to that title. at least we have a Gps chip period. ipad2 wifi version doesn't even have one. The Prime will still be known as the worlds first next generation Quad/5 core tablet that had alot of firsts. Best display out of any tablet out being another one.

as far as wifi goes,my unit doesn't have any issues or gripes in that regard. haven't noticed anything different than with my Ipad as far as connectivity and speed goes. once developers unlock bootloader and adjust the kernel values n such, we might end up having the best wifi of any tablet due to dual antennaes. plus we haven't even seen the positive impacts ICS will have on wireless performance with its updated drivers and better coding. only a few more days to go ;)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] gogol:
Found an article about the patent:

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patent...s-new-kind-of-logo-antenna-for-portables.html

So, as long as it is not a "logo", ASUS should be safe, no?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Sokonomi:
Yeah.. except the prime isn't a closed envelope, furthermore the GPS antenna isn't even facing towards the back.

If you want to do a REAL comparison, find a metal surface and put your phone ontop of it. See how the GPS reacts.

MAYBE it ll diminish just a little, but it will never be completely dead in the water like some if not most primes are.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
You'll never know with Apple. Heck, they filed a lawsuit against Samsung for creating rectangular tablet (that and bezel and few other ridiculous reason).
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BongoBong:
I don't know why everyone likes to point to a full metal enclosure as proof of the poor engineering design. Its not analogous to the prime at all.

I have actually made an aluminum foil backing for my phone out of curiosity and it had zero effect on my speedtest results (didn't check gps).

Basically everything is pointing to the metal backing is the cause of the problems, although I too would love to actually see the results with a unit sans backplate.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jptech:
cry me a river.

so you're just going to repeat everything you heard Anand say?

None of that is going to happen, get over it.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
If ASUS does come out with a revised Prime (a TF201A, say), then they'll be offering us an exchange program. Why? Because otherwise they'll have a class-action suit brought against them faster than they can say "WTF?!?"

I don't like most class-action suits, because they're mostly bull**** in my opinion drummed up by cheesy ambulance-chasing lawyers who end up getting the only meaningful settlements. However, in this case, since I did buy at least in part based on GPS, and if ASUS comes out with a new version that fixes GPS, then I would expect the ability to swap out units.

ASUS can't really argue about return policies, either, because probably a significant majority of Prime owners aren't on XDA and other forums learning the ins and outs of such things. So, most aren't aware of the flaw and thus don't know to return their units. Also, many places only have 14-day return policies and many also have restocking fees. So, returning isn't an option for many people.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Falhawk:
See, I have an issue with this. If people aren't aware of a flaw and are happy with the product, why point it out to them?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
Really??????????
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Wordlywisewiz:
They will not remove the GPS chip because market access

They probably won't replace the back unless they can make the plastic look exactly like the metal (the docks have to match or it will be ugly)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] fradworth:
I don't think you have thought this through.

An (hypothetical) example....sure the airbags in the Ford Explorer don't work, but if people are happy with the car, and they don't know the airbags don't work, why point out this flaw?

Yea, kind of an extreme example, but the theory still applies.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
How anyone can read the Anandtech article, along with his multi-paragraph apology for letting his followers down, and not see that the stupid aluminum back cover's the problem is beyond me. My only issue with the article is how easily he let Asus off the hook and even complimented them for "doing the only thing they could" by removing the feature. Nobody held a gun to Asus' head forcing them to use aluminum. And to deploy a half-ass GPS implementation, get called on it publically, and then pull it isn't what thorough and reputable companies do. Do a search on "HTC Sensation Wi-Fi. It's not like there weren't previous issues with aluminum in a mobile device. I wish my customers were as forgiving as some of Asus' when I do stupid things.

The Apple comparison is irrelevant. First, Asus isn't market dominant like Apple and isn't even the largest seller of Android tablets. They compete vigorously against other Android tablet makers all of whom include working GPS in their high-end Wi-Fi models. It was a working feature in the TF1 so Asus actually went backward. The iPad1 didn't have GPS so it's no loss to anyone that it's not in the iPad2. Asus intended GPS to work or they wouldn't have gone to the expense of putting the chip and antenna in. And if people are going to cling to the iPad comparison, the GPS works fine in 3G models where it's included.

I agree that this whole GPS thing has been beaten to death. But to just say "oh well, they did the best that they could" is either fanboy-ism or blind brand loyalty. Lucky for Asus that the Prime still has its dock as a unique feature. They're going to get their clock cleaned when other higher-spec'd better-built Teg3 tablets start to come out.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Evo_Shift:
Removing gps as a spec is the cheapest option and has very little effect on sales most likely. It's the people who really want to use it as a gps in a vehicle, (i doubt very many) who already own it who are most affected. It's a small number of people making a lot of noise.

I really like the back plate and don't care to use it as a stand alone gps ever so i am glad to get the first production if it did change to plastic or something. If i had to get a plastic backed tablet i would want it to be soft touch but the idiot designers would probably make it gloss.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
I know that ate you up inside when Anandtech said dispite GPS flaw, it wasn't an important or significant enough feature to change his recommendation of the tablet. that its still the best deal and most powerful out there. that this is the device to get ;) Also that ipad2 wifi version doesn't even have a GPS chip in it. :p
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] xGary:
I really don't understand how companies make that mistake. I am in first year Engineering and I know better.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Falhawk:
That's a crazy extreme example and ridiculous hyperbole. We're not talking about equipment that could cause injury/death. The logic doesn't apply at all.

We're talking about a GPS that might not work for some people to use as navigation tools. Anand, in his updated article (in the comments) says that for what the Google market requires GPS for that it works just fine. If people are buying this for a navigational device, they'll be able to easily make up their minds if it works well enough to keep, otherwise they'll return it. If someone bought it watch movies, stream netflix, game on etc do they really need to be pointed out that there's a flaw which might not affect them at all? I mean if down the road they decide to mount a 10" gps in their car sure that's an issue but I think the whole thing is being blown massively out of proportion (you know, like comparing it to defective life saving devices).
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
believe that by far, this is not the biggest mistake ever made by a tech company or any industry. look at the automotive industry which are supposedly held to higher standards and stricter guidelines and they still pump out cars with defects. Recalls sound familiar. lol

people will soon forget this Gps issue as a whole. all of that is over shadowed by how well its selling and how its the most sought after tablet right now in the industry. it isn't like this GPS make t.v. news headlines like the flaws with ipad2 and iphone4 had. grip of death and display issues.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
How about this?

If the battery life on Prime is significantly reduced by half, but Prime functions perfectly fine.. will you be okay with it? I mean, for the mass public.. they won't know or have knowledge on battery test/life.. and most likely won't even notice it.

Or

The bluetooth (listed spec in Prime like GPS was) in Prime doesn't work, will you be okay with that as well? The mass public won't use it, or won't recognize it. Will you be okay with that as well?

And if we don't point out flaws, are you really happy with manufacturers producing & releasing defective product?

Oh, and since your first comment was very general.. Fradworth logic certainly applies.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
^^^^^

This. Oh, so this.

No, but he added this, which when there are more Teg3 choices available, will undoubtedly make people think twice. Unless you need a dock, why would anyone give up a feature that they could have included on another similarly priced Teg3 tablet? Asus may have won the battle but the war's not even begun.

Update: ASUS has removed GPS support from the Prime's official spec sheet. Check out our update here as well as our follow-up to the review.

Let's flash forward and pretend its March.

- The Acer and Lenovo will be out with better specs than the Prime. People will be particularly drawn to the higher-res displays. I'd expect them to be priced within $100 of the Prime. If there's a hit to benchmarks I'd guess it to be no more than 10-15%. But since people use a tablet to do things any performance deficit will be invisible and most people buying tablets don’t even know what benchmarks are.

- The Lenovo will be built better than the Prime and the Acer no worse. They'll both have 5GHz Wi-Fi, better audio than the Prime (the Lenovo has Dolby Mobile), and, wait for it, working GPS. If I were Lenovo or Acer I'd intentionally include a couple of apps dependent on GPS to make Asus' life miserable and highlight their blunder.

- The Razor Teg3 gaming tablet will be out or at least detailed and it's a co-project between Nvidia and Razor so I'd expect it to be recognized as the best Android gaming tablet.

So the Prime's future doesn't look competitively bright. And I didn't even mention the impact of the Samsung 11.6, rumored Nexus tablet, and the iPad3(s). It wouldn’t surprise me to see Asus launch a Prime II in Q2 upping the specs and addressing some of the design choices. If they don't, it's going to end up like the TF1 - being purchased because of its dock. I’d guess XDA’rs probably represent no more than 10-15% of Asus’ customer base. It’s going to take a lot more than us to make the Prime a financial success.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] fradworth:
Fine.

sure the rear seats don't recline in the Ford Explorer, even though Ford says they do, but if people are happy with the car, and they don't know the rear seats don't recline, why point out this flaw?

sure the Asus computer doesn't come with 4GB ram, even though their spec sheets say it does, but if people are happy with the computer, and they don't know this, why tell them of this flaw?

It's about being a fully informed consumer and not allowing manufactures to make claims about their products which are not true.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
Not.

We don't know yet effects of the Tegra 3 chip - first time ever used in a device and the companion core might be playing a role here - and I have had success, as have others, with gps.config files.. which is software. Their stock gps.config file is a total joke by every measurement.

It is not 100% solely the metal case.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
You don't. I do. Anand does.

And I posted some vids so you guys pursuing s/w as a fix have something to compare to. Let me know when you get there.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
Funny, don't remember saying software would be a "fix".

What I do remember saying is the issue is not 100% metal back related and software is playing a role... and I stand by that 100%.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
If s/w is 25% of the issue, the Prime will still be unusable for navigation. If you can't reliably stay within 15-30' accuracy whatever's done with s/w will be a fail. The s/w fixes you guys are pursuing only help get a lock. They can't help keep it. All the config files and location servers you're tinkering with only help the chip by loading an initial database of satellite locations which is a one time event. After that, it's on its own. The only argument that's yet to be resolved is if the Teg3 could be playing a role. If you read Anand's writings, I'd be shocked that he wouldn't have suggested that if it were a possible influence.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] markimar:
Let's pray that it's poorly written code and ics and some good devs can make this work as intended!
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
Enough people are aware to initiate a class action suit, which then applies to everyone whether they know it or not. I'm sure you've received at least one notice of a class action suit that you're a part of that came as a complete surprise to you. I know I have.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
I have not read Anand's writings. But not sure - unless he is a dev and has gotten into the system now that we have root to see how the Tegra 3 works with the system or is intimately familiar with the chip and exactly how it works with GPS processes - he can hypothesize, just like me, all he wants so just because he did not say doesn't mean it's not possible.

Though we agree to some degree on the overall lack of usefulness of this GPS in the present situation, I am just taking umbrage with the claim this is solely a metal backing issue.

Last, as a simple case in point of why I think this runs deeper than just the metal back, a point I simply cannot rectify, how a tablet that is not moved or changed locations for hours and is locked on and seeing satellites totally looses signals if you simply press a capacitive button or change apps and come back to something like GPS Test. Logically, software.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
Honestly, what's the point of this debate? What is your expectation from Prime's GPS functionality? I agree, the issue with GPS in Prime can, and most likely is both s/w & h/w. However, no matter how well you tinker the driver & software, you will never overcome the hardware issue/limitation.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
^^^^^

This.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
easy, because its already an accepted fact that the backplate does play a role in GPS less than stellar performance. so why not try to tinker around with the GPS configuration files n such to make the best situation possible out of it. so what u saying instead is just to leave it as is? although the possibility is great that knowledgeable users and developers can improve this feature significantly through software methods. its a known fact that ICS will bring better and updated drivers for GPS and everything else. that alone could improve things by a large margin. then add the tinkering around afterwards and its quite possible to come to an acceptable level of performance based on how it was originally.

Plus why do people love to hate on the Prime so much? I bet even if GPS worked fine n some other possible issues, people would still try to find something to nag about on it. Just accept the fact that this tablet can't be touched right now. only tablet going to drop soon is ipad3. all those other ones Lenovo-who has one of the slowest rates for pushing out firmware plus stick their own UI skin over the OS slowing things down and Acer-who has been historically known for having faulty devices hardware wise, cheaply built. will not drop till may-june at the earliest. people predicting march release is a pipedream. why? because there's no guareentee they won't run into delays or snags also. only one who is going to come out regardless is Apple. because that's how they do..lol. plus these new higher Res. spec tablet won't mean much to the normal consumer because side by side the Prime to those will look virtually the same. Prime has the better value going for it also. these new higher spec tabs almost guareenteed to be priced alot higher. Apple is the only one who can manufacture a high spec tab and price it at a loss and more than make the money back in long term with software and apps purchases. this is the same thing that happened with PS3. all were sold at a loss originally but they made huge profits in the backend. Smart thing with Kindle Fire. it costs way more than $199 to make that tab. but they sell it at a loss because they know they'll more than make it back through Amazon purchases. Lenovo or Acer has none of these software solutions going for it. therefore they can't afford to sell it at a loss to be competitive. more than likely scenario, if they want to price competitively, is that they will dumb down the initial specs and cut corners on quality components. plain and simple. :p
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Falhawk:
Why do people need 10" navigation systems...seriously

edit: before the neckbeards come out...I'm kidding. If you want a 20" navigation system that's your business. I'm just pretty surprised that this is such an issue
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] fuzzer:
not need....

not everyon has smartphones and seperate gps devices... not everyone can afford all the latest gadgets, so they save and get the best they can with all the bells and whistles they can afford. TP was originaly promoted as being able to proide navigation...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
Trying really hard to ignore your comments but I might as well reply:

1. I have no idea of your dev. experience, but as for me.. NO matter how hard I or others in my respective field try, was never able to overcome hardware issue.

2. Did you deliberately ignore my question to him: "What is your expectation from Prime's GPS functionality?"

If he is relying on s/w to make Prime's GPS as good as other tablets/smartphones, I hope he decreases his expectation. I have nothing against devs. who are trying to improve its functionality, but the whole argument of SOFTWARE being able to overcome hardware issue/limitation needs to end.

3. Please.. tell me, when have I ridiculed or "hated" on Prime except GPS & what I expected from what Asus LISTED in their launch?

4. Your 2nd paragraph is complete utter BS. Thank you for your analysis on complete utter ASSUMPTION of your own.

@ Falhawk - "Nielsen report that 43% of US mobile phone owners have a smartphone as of October 2011, and expect smartphones to become the majority by the end of 2011."

"comScore estimate US smartphone ownership at just over 37% of mobile subscribers or 87.4 million people as of September, 2011. They put the equivalent figures for France, Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK combined at 38.9% or 91.4 million people"

So, at least half of the population in US and other leading European countries do not own a smartphone. Android tablets with Android Market access (Google requires GPS) is the perfect medium of smartphone ability (without the ability to call, but do have skype and others) & GPS navigation ability.