yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
WinMo is like that girlfriend in college. The one that danced on tables and kissed girls at frat parties. Fun and exciting. And the things she did in the bedroom :eek:

Sure, your wife is boring. Plain. But she works well ;)

Seriously though, WinMo was terrible. Powerfully terrible. Unstable, services crashed, required rebooting. I honestly think some people forget these thing when they wish for WinMo to be back.
[Windows Phone 7 General] XxAndrexX:
WM had issues, like Windows 95, 98, xp vista, 7, and son 8....

Its true, it was unstable, and everything you want.... but its a question of time, I think first thing, you need features and more features, and then, get them work well... thats how Microsoft did it during years, if you look at win95 and win7, the features are more or less the same, but win7 is a tank. Microsoft should have worked on its "geek" base, at least it would have maintain big part of the business sector, and then on the stability, smoothness and so on.

they could have put the a hybrid metro-WM system too, it'd have been the best, like Win8, Where WP7 fails big, is that they threw away all the achievements made with WM.

go back 4 years. There was symbian, Dumbphone and WM6.1, and maybe Android.

Symbian was without features, dumbphone was a ****in dumbphone like today, and android was awful.

And it was not that unstable, compared to that times. but today it would have been matured at its top level. mabe for tomorrow, for dumb people Metro would be a better solution, but like I said,they threw away the hearth of WM
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
The main reason Microsoft ditched Windows Mobile was precicely because they stopped caring about those customers you talk about. They didn't want to have to maintain backward compatibility with Windows Mobile, so they re-engineered a newer, purposely incompatible version.

Microsoft is using iOS as the template for their mobile strategy, not Windows Mobile (which is rather analogous to Android these days).

If Microsoft wanted, they could have put Metro on Windows Mobile. Both OSes run CE under the hood, and Windows Mobile already had a .NET CF and SQL CE.

Those "dumb people" are the majority. They don't care about half the crap you care about, and that BB and WM offered. They can get that stuff from Android anyways, and are, apparently... ...

IMO, Microsoft squandere a huge opportunity to gain a lot of users by focusing on consumers when it was clear they could not compete with iOS and Android hardware and it would take so long to get the first major update out of the door.

With Blackberry failing as hard as it is in the US, they could have leveraged their SMB and Enterprise Software position to pitch WP7 as a great business solution. Not being completely enterprise-ready is really hurting them because people don't want to carry two phones anymore. A huge reason why Blackberry has slipped so much is because employees are dropping corporate blackberries for personal iOS and Android devices in many cases.

Once Android and iOS gain so much traction in the corporate sector it will be hard to disrupt that as much, because companies do not like having to pay to retrain employees a couple years after they've already done it...
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
I actually agreed with everything you wrote there up to the dotted line I inserted. I think the technically inclined just to not understand the business aspect or what the majority want.

So let me ask you N8ter, you live on an island of 100 people. You want to start a business selling something to the 99 other people on it. What do you sell? The easiest answer is something that appeals to the majority. Yes, an extremely oversimplified analogy, but I think the concept is preserved. Most people do not want to ROM their phone. I had lots of fun Romming my HTC WinMo phone, but that is not going to appeal to the average person. The average person wants a phone that looks nice, has good features, works well, and has lots of apps. The rocket science is in all the minor details (what is nice looking, what features, how to make it work well, etc).

I fully understand and support what Microsoft did to WinMo. They absolutely took the Apple template and added two twists.

1. Maintained the option of having many different OEMs making handsets with their OS on it, hence giving the customer the choice Apple does not give them.

2. Created a unique and amazing user interface.

So Windows Phone is in theory the perfect creation. The only massive problem is Windows Phone is iOS 3.1 right now. Yes, they are far behind. But aren't they less far behind than they were a year ago? And won't they be less far behind at the end of this year? Every new update the OS will suck less and less. I think I can bet the house on that one. And Microsoft will continue to support it.

I do not see why the pro WP people and the anti WP people cannot come to that truce. The OS will suck less and less with each update, until one day it won't suck so much.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vermelo:
I do envy the Android phones because of the cool specs/features and now GTA3.

I'm reluctant to leave WP7 because I'm already so used to it and also I paid Zune pass for the entire year.

Idk If I wanna buy the Lumia 900 when later in the year we will get the Apollo update and much better Chassis 3 phones.

I have a Samsung Focus but I'm tired of being without a FFC.

Frustration. :mad:
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
That was too much to quote but let me try to understand what you are saying:

There is a majority segment out there. Let us call them A.

There is a sizeable but minority segment out there. Let us call them B.

iOS and Android are the OS of choice for A.

BB OS is the choice of B.

Windows Phone should have gone after B instead of A? That is what i am understanding, esp what you say here

But what is happening to RIM as we speak? RIM is in a full tailspin right now. So all that does not make any sense whatsoever. I would understand the thinking if RIM had a niche that was stable and impervious to the Apple / Android advances, but its not.

But I will agree to disagree. I doubt we will see eye to eye on this one. There is indeed room for a third player, yes Metro being amazing is subjective but it is a fresh and different UI that has been well receive to the point where they are adding it in their PC platform, and BB OS 10 is copying it ;)

If WP can get the apps and handset choices that Android has, and maintain the stability and battery life and fluidity that it has now, they will be a major player.

Quite a few ifs.
[Windows Phone 7 General] JVH3:
Windows Phone 7 market

The amount of users that are cell phone users that do not have a smart phone is quite large. Many dumb phone users love the fact that their phone can go a week on a single charge and are simple to use. No need to tweek or configure. Smart phones have also been very expensive.

Android and Windows Mobile have appeared too complicated to this segment.

iPhones are pretty simple to use and have been able to capture a large portion of the market of users that previously used dumb phones. They are also powerful enough to satisfy many, if not most smart phone users.

With the explosion of social media, people want phones that can access it. Smart phone technology is now cheap. This group still wants simplicity.

Windows Mobile was not going to attract dumb phone users wanting to make the leap. It was losing its highly technical group to Android. Microsoft needed to adapt.

Which brings us Windows Phone. It is simple to use. It does what users of dumb phones wished they could do and does it with simplicity. It has alot of power so it is still useful to the power user. There are more limitations. But a user of a dumb phone can move into Windows Phone 7 and be fully functional quickly. The phone isn't going to be locking up or be sluggish. It won't need to be restarted. Most common things will not require help from others. It is also powerful enough to handle almost all tasks smart phone users were used to acomplishing with their phone.

There are alot of similarities to the iPhone and Mango. I have a thread deditcated to objective comparisons between the two platforms.

It's my belief that Microsoft saw the trend of dumb phone users moving into smart phones. They want to capture this market before it is too late. They recognized that Windows Mobile was too complicated and unstable. Although they did not want to lose the geekier Windows Mobile users, they saw that they already were.

Windows Phone 7 is a great platform that is very intuitive and easy to use.

With all technology, it is better to not be the first to buy it. But with Mango here and Tango coming in a few Months, it is mature enough for most users.

The OS, currenly is not as much for the power user that needs to be updating Glympse location, while playing a game, listening to music, and expecting a Tango video call needing everything to work perfectly and to tell the Tango caller the contents of an email.

But, that is not the primary target market.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
The dumbphone would suffice in that lack of situation devoid of needed features.

This thread has sooooo many good points its hard to keep up!
[Windows Phone 7 General] JVH3:
In the situation that you quoted, Mango, can do all those things individually.

It just can't do other Tasks while using Tango because of the automatic thread suspension / dehydration.

Same issue with Glympse "running" in the background. It must be the foreground app, so location information is not updated while doing anything else.

I don't think Tango or Glympse exist for dumb phones. I may be wrong, because I haven't looked at any for years. I am not aware of any with a GPS though.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sinister1:
L:DL you tell them..
[Windows Phone 7 General] XxAndrexX:
In my company, and in other companies, the employer phone was either BlackBerry or WM. Why??? because it was something like a desktop replacement. I speak of just before WP7 came out.

Now what do we got in our companies?? Android, Symbian and Iphone-dumbphone.

Thats sounds crazy!!!

I mean:

BlackBerry was known as a pure Enterprise phone.

WM was known as Enterprise, desktop-replacement-geek phone.

IPhone was known as Dumbphone

Symbian for taking cool pictures

Android, something new and experimental.

Now the Enterprise phone is Android (and IOS for the Boss).

why???

Because BlackBerry failed, symbian is too old, and WP7 does not have the hardware and not even the software, no one wants to write an e-mail with touchscreen.

and there is no way for a serious remote session.

So we can tell:

Microsoft had mainly the Enterprise market, and a small geek market.

now Microsoft lost entirely the Enterprise market, the geek market, and obviously, the dumbphone market, even WP7 is based on dumbphone OS.

Thats why Im telling all the time, Microsoft had to secure their market, and step by step, gain the dumb market, by making a hybrid system,introducing Metro, without quitting te other stuff, and so without loosing all the customers.

they maid their decision, obviously a bad decision, but the problem is, they are insisting, instead of trying to repair. Mango had to bring WP7 to point 0, where it would have been equal to Android. No way, even Whatsapp is working too bad, Facebook chat is dead, no one uses it, not even messenger, everyone uses whatsapp, and no one buys a phone where whatsapp Works bad.

they should go back, add a shortcut to WM in WP7 (like W8 does) and at least gain back the Enterprise and geek market, and meanwhile, work on the metro system, to gain some bunch of dumb people too.
[Windows Phone 7 General] prohibido_por_la_ley:
funny how you would just choose that part to quote, ignoring the other good points.

No one i know uses whatsapp, bash harder.
[Windows Phone 7 General] weijoon:
I'm not sure about others, my circles of friends use whatapps only when they have extra data plan (or wifi) or when their normal phone call bill exceeded their budget...

To be frank, sms (or mms) is still the best choice...

Bash harder.
[Windows Phone 7 General] 0711:
so i was a windows phone fan since it release...30mins ago everything changed for me.

I`ve run through nodo update **** with t-mobile de, ok first big updates, they told they will improve update process and blablabla

mango rolled and it looked for me they do what they have said (even there was no internet sharing and stuff i dont know why NOT on a open market phone), but most features where there and i am fine with the mango rollout

then post mango update rolled...but not to all and the internet sharing and other stuff dont come to me ever on official way (open market phone, i wrote?). Ok not a big update but it was security related, too!

Now 8107 update will come only to carriers which request?

And now i see http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_...ew-maintenance-release-for-windows-phone.aspx (seems to be broken at the moment, look http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_phone/b/windowsphone/ "New maintenance release for Windows Phone"

Theres a disgusting keyboard bug, i have it...i dont receive this update cause i have an open market phone! They messed the keyboard with mango but i have to live with it? (in german we call this "verschlimmbessert" -> something like "better the worse") Thanks microsoft!

Theres again a security related update (certification issue AND the sms bug), i dont receive this!

I cant recommend wp7 anymore to anyone....i am high keen on getting security related updates as fast as possible and get fix dusgusting bugs (i dont need realy new features) and this i see, i can get NEVER with windows phone

theres on android the nexus phone where i get the updates faster than on windows phone

theres iphone which gets its updates in time

so i have done a wrong decission with recommend windows phone to many people and in a few internet plattforms, i am sorry to the people i gave this wrong recommendation.

Even i am in a position at my company with about 1000 employees and ~200 smartphones around to recommend the future platform we will use (instead of blackberry - i am the bes admin at the moment ;) ), i thought maybe windows phone will do this...but with this update situation i cant recommend this platform, better to go with nexus phones or ios.
[Windows Phone 7 General] angler:
What has Microsoft done these few years? Pin pointed developing Vista but leaving Windows Mobile and offered chance for Apple to introduce iPhone in 2007.

I have used Windows Mobile since 2002. I have switched from Android to WP but unlikely to hear that Microsoft once again drop the ball. I have iPhone from 3Gs to 4 is now still holding. Apple has released numerous update to iphone despite some of them not integrate all the functions. What I have seen WP is not clone of iphone, but Microsoft elected to control the update process. This distinguish WP from WM and the update should be controlled by Mircosoft strictly related to the OS enhancement, not rely on OEM nor carrier. Just what has been done with Apple, and iphone is still the most reliable phone whether it is smart or dumb.

I have used WM, Symbian 3, iPhone4, Android, and now WP7.5 which I am very happy to it since it is very reliable out of the box. It is on par with iphone. Unfortunately in terms of user base and application store, WP still needs to move faster. The recent 7.10.8107.79 OS update seems a warning to me. The message issue needs OS patch to rectify. This is not carrier's choice to update to WP user, but Microsoft should update this OS to all WP users.
[Windows Phone 7 General] KimWinter:
I think my only complaint (for now) of the WP7 is the limited availability of Marketplace. I mean, what's the use of having a smart phone if you cannot buy apps? At least I can download free apps, but that's pretty much just that: I'm stuck with free and trial version apps simply because Marketplace is not supported in my country.

But other than that, I love the new Windows Phone 7.5.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thekiller99:
Not only that but 80% of the apps in Marketplace are trashy useless apps or they copied one an another. Xbox games release once every week which is a total joke if we compare it to other OSes. Im still waiting for splintercell which was advertised like 6months ago.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
WP7 sales are very low still.

Nokia Lumia seems to be disappointing in sales too.

I think WP7 still doesn't impress users, I mean average users.

Paradoxically it's more impressive for geeks here....

They should make the UI look better, I mean more customizable and less flat... It is important for users to have some eye candy.

It also doesn't offer nothing really really different from others, nothing special, nothing catchy, nothing extra. And still Windows on the phone doesn't seem to be that catchy name what is a pity of course.

They let Android dominate and I suppoose that will stay for long time, just like Windows rules in PC world.

MS will further invest in the platform though and probably open it so it can do more. There is no chance for success if it will stay like that. I don't believe it since phones are not attractive either.

MS made many mistakes with WP7. But it won't die I suppose.

In my case I am happy I've chosen Android, it's exactly what I loved in WM.

But still - the best wishes to WP7, it seems it's a great idea but totally wasted IMO.

Lack of direct PC sync is the first basic issue with many other problems. We'll see what MS will do about it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
Its still a new OS so we should temper our expectations.

(or the other view) It sucks and people don't want it.

Depends on who you listen to or what your expectations were.

There is little reason to switch right now for the general population. WP will be more compelling once it gets more handsets, features, and apps.

Agreed they slept too long at the wheel and Apple came in and showed everyone how its done. I have read rumour stories that Google was looking to come out with a BB competing OS, but when Apple was so successful they changed their entire focus. But I totally disagree with you and I think WP does offer a UI and experience that is different and special.

Phones are not attractive visually or hardware-wise?

I have an Android rant for you. Android made many mistakes. Infringing on too many things. Poor battery life. Not as stable as the counterparts on the market. Mark my words, Google should be working on rewriting Android because Apple will get more aggressive in an effort to defend their iPhone/iPad from Android's advances.The writing is on the wall.

Makes sense. That means iOS is not for you either. I believe that there are inherent issues that come about with these powerful, open, highly customizable OSes.

Its all about what is important to you. I own, and have owned and used various Android phones and the bad battery life and force closes are annoying. I love the widgets, and apps. I rooted my phone only to get Gingerbread from Defy+ and screenshot capabilities. I believe I fall closer to the general consumer in my needs vs a nerd.

Let me ask you a hypothetical question - If Windows Phone kept its UI, had the entire app catalogue of iOS, more handset designs, 16/32/64GB options on more handsets, and kept pace with the CPU level of iOS which ecosystem would you buy into?

Regardless of it all, choice is good. People should spend less effort screaming for the Grim Reaper on Windows Phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
I agree that Google made mistakes with Android too. But in the end they achieved massive success and they provide complete OS.

Let me repeat - the battery and stability issues are basically gone on Android, at least on comparable hardware. My Arc has 10 months, stellar battery performance and 1 month or so of uptimes without a single reboot and SINGLE app problems. So I assume Android was **** before, I don't know. I use it for 1 year...

I meant that generally the OS is not attractive. The UI looks dead and flat to me, I felt depressed after using it. It's just so flat, I need at least any background picture on the homescreen, it's totally beyond me why it's not available.

I would buy WP7 right now, even having current UI, if it would enable free USB and Bluetooth transfer, full file management, custom email and office apps or better native ones, Google Maps and native YouTube app, Flash support and Zune with complete sync with the phone. Maybe I forgot something but if these needs would be fulfilled, I would be happy user, taking advatage of great OS and complete ecosystem of MS products of which I use Windows OS for my laptops. If I'll ever think of getting any tablet, it will be Windows too.

And you are right I don't like iOS and actually the whole Apple philosophy is not convincing for me.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ I feel the same. My battery life is excellent, and I'm using stock ICS.

Windows Phone has great potential, don't get me wrong.

Btw GTA3 is awesome!
[Windows Phone 7 General] lamborg:
so you are deciding and saying everything just because WP7 didn't got that game. Hm... I have iphone and download most of the games like IB etc but I didn't downloaded that GTA3. Why? Because its just a poor port of the PC version, which means not really made for iOS but merely ported.

BTW, as you say, we can say that since iOS and Android doesn't have XBox Live games, so they are dying.

About the apps, MS is doing its thing to get quality and number apps.

Initial OS releases has its limitations, be it Android or iOS and the same you can say is with WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
I never treat WP7 as a NEW, completely new OS. That's not true.

So when MS releases Windows 8 you expect this to be better equipped than Windows 7 or you will accept every - even silly - limitation just because it's a new OS?

I don't take this argument, sorry, it's idiotic.

Yes iPhone in 2007 was the FIRST phone by Apple.

Yes G1 was the first phone with Android.

But in 2009 MS had 9 years old history and experience with mobile OS!!! Nine ****ing years.

So whatever they planned they should know the game perfectly and they WERE able to make it really perfect.

WP7 could be new OS but not for MS.

They could do almost anything with their potential.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lamborg:
OK, as long as we are concentrating on only 1 f**king point about copy/paste, I agree, MS should have put it their in the very first version after WM.

The point is MS is doing its bit with Nokia and others to compete in the market so we can not say that its dying. Weather it succeeds or not, is a matter of time.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nitin88g:
and some one Close this thread please
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
I don't think anybody can claim it's dying in any way.

I just wish I could treat this OS more seriously.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nitin88g:
Please close the thread. In every forum and for every month, there's a debate and it never ends.

We all know what's lacking and what's great. So just stop one more thread bashing out on the same
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
You can't just close everything you don't like.

You can't just shut people up.
[Windows Phone 7 General] r3drox:
I'm not a fan of WP7 and I still distrust MS cloud integration for a reason I still can't fathom. However, I still think its too early to predict if it will die out or not.

I also think MS are not being entirely too serious with WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] r3drox:
I disagree. The mobile software world is constantly evolving and discussions and debates like this will never die out as this keeps up. IMO I find them highly educative. :D