yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] robomo:
It's moved to the giant GPS thread for now - I think we can salvage this thread for purely experimental/research based discussion.

The dB difference test with .33 firmware should be done at the exact same spot as the original .27 test to make sure things are accurate. The orientation of trees, satellites, you name it can all impact reception - especially when you're taking note of small dB differences.

please do The orientation of the GPS on a car dash is extremely important. If you stick it vertical, the Transformer Prime's GPS antenna is almost completely blind.

If it's at a 45 degree angle, it's only got a sliver of sky to see.

If it's flat, it's as good as it's ever going to get.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tshoulihane:
Angle of view tests, sat in conservatory, next to bungalow. Rural location with trees.

Tablet alone. Best signal (1 or 2 sats giving green-40db- some of the time) was facing upwards, longest axis of tab facing north. Rotating 90 about Z gave a 10dB drop in signal. Up-side down again gave about a 10dB drop.

Tablet alone at 'open screen' position didn't give a great reduction in signal compared to any other position. Holding either top corner made a big difference.

When docked, the directionality I observed from the bare tab was reduced. This means that the good directions were not quite so good, and the bad directions were better.

Conclusion:

The antenna is in the top corner(s), and is impacted by lossy hands being there.

The case is coupled to the antenna, and seems to impart a degree of polarisation sensitivity (despite GPS being circular?)

The case is not in itself blocking the signal - it is more becoming part of the anantena (it's reflective, so the signal just bounces)

I wonder if the case is de-tuning the antenna so a good fix would be a small modification to the antenna PCB but that means getting inside, and some try and see prototypes. Ideally some heavy duty test equipment too...

Edit: wifi was on for these tests.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tshoulihane:
GPS test will give signal levels for each sat.

Below is the SGS2 result in the same location.

You need to take the measurements at about the same time, and same location. I used a camera to capture the images rather than getting in the way of the signal myself. Strongest signals will generally come from directly overhead.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] robomo:
Thanks drkmtr for your report! - what program did you use for your test?

Others have been using GPS test to compare satellite signal strengths:

https://market.android.com/details?id=com.chartcross.gpstest&hl=en

I think it would also be very useful to see a direct navigation test using an off-line GPS map app. Testing navigation using an offline maps app, while the tablet is sitting flat on the dash would be a great test to do on a wide scale. As soon as mine gets comes in the mail next week that's going to be of the first things I do.

One good one is Locus Free: https://market.android.com/details?...51bGwsMSwxLDEsIm1lbmlvbi5hbmRyb2lkLmxvY3VzIl0.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] drkmtr:
Thanks Robomo.:)

I have using GPS Status (https://market.android.com/details?id=com.eclipsim.gpsstatus2&hl=en) to do my test. But I will down load the apps that you recommend and try it tomorrow morning, with my wife driving to work.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Sokonomi:
If some of you manage to use an offline map navi successfully all brakes will be off for me. ;)

I keep seeing people yap about "But without 3G what use does GPS have",

and I cant help but to palm my face and feel old at the same time.

These kids just don't know how easy it was back in the good old days,

with tomtom 5.0 on the ol' ipaq 4700 PDA running windows mobile 2003. :cool:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] cybik:
Just a quick question.

Since the GeoPositionning circuit can use FOUR DIFFERENT GEOTECHS to position itself, are we barking up the wrong tree and going at this all wrong? Could it just be that the daemon running is just using the GPS part, whereas the ICS daemon would use ALL THE THINGS?

Throwing a bone here.

http://www.broadcom.com/products/GPS/GPS-Silicon-Solutions/BCM47511

/runs
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tshoulihane:
No. We are actually looking at the data, not trying to guess if it is working properly by playing with the mapping app. Regardless of what can make it better, the basic GPS performance is only seeing 10% of the signal it should.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] diecast17:
Doesn't Asus have a responsibility to design a working product will all the features that it was intended to have? If it wasn't working as designed before launch they should have not released the product.

It seems like such a simple thing that GPS will not work through aluminum, so how did the design get this far without an engineer saying wait a second this won't work?

I can understand why some people would want to return the tablet for a full refund. They should have the right to do that.

I can also understand how a lot of people may not focus that much on GPS function.

I am also concerned about the fact that the Bluetooth will not work at the same time as Wi-Fi. What does that mean if you are playing a game online with a Bluetooth controller like the one from Gamestop or a PS3 controller?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] robomo:
Welcome to the Transformer Prime corner of XDA :) I hope you enjoy your stay. We're trying to keep *this specific thread* for hard research only, not general GPS discussion because the sheer volume of posts going on.

WiFi + Bluetooth Thread: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1423180

Simple answer: it *should still work* if you're near the router in most cases see end of thread for latest data.

General GPS thread: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1404646
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] kjp1231:
My GPS issue is slightly different from everyone else that I have seen. Mine worked perfectly, inside and out, to the point where I was getting at least 10 sats with great strength and quick lock.

Then I got the update yesterday, no lock on any Sat, inside or outside. Tried GPS reset several times to no avail.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] robomo:
Was your original success within range of WiFi or with WiFi on?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] kjp1231:
Both, my GPS worked prior to the update with and without wifi.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] robomo:
So there's obviously some software issues here as well, at least for people like you who got a botched GPS after firmware update.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] kjp1231:
I am going to open a case with ASUS tomorrow, but wanted to chime in with my issue, as I haven't seen a similar report.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] unknown_owner:
OK now that we have root, I replaced the stock gps.conf file with the modified one for North America. Well to report I actually got 7-8 satellites in less than and it actually locked in Gps test. Never got more than 2 satellites and never got a lock/fix before. Someone else in try it.

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] flak0:
I was about to post this, the GPS.conf in the Prime was blank this whole time, no wonder we had GPS issues. Asus PR dept just reacted and made up the whole metal casing thing since its on XDA lol.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
Are you able to test drive? I didn't bother rooting mine since I'm hoping to return mine to Gamestop.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] vbman213:
My location icon won't even begin to pulsate... Just sits their, empty with no activity...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] kjp1231:
Interesting, I didn't root mine, but this is what's in my gps.conf file.

#

# IMPORTANT:

# this file is only used by NetworkTimeUpdateService.java

# DO NOT make any GPS related settings here.

#

NTP_SERVER=xtra1.gpsonextra.net
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] unknown_owner:
Sorry not going to do the drive thing. Won't be driving and using Prime for navigation. Someone else can try this. Got gps and phone for navigation, that's enough for me. At least my location dependant apps will be OK.

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Sean3:
Mine does the same. Touch the clock so as to open the quick settings and see if it starts beating then.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
We are in the same ship. The cold boot inside outside results I posted screenshots for I can not replicate post update. I got hosed.

---------- Post added at 10:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 PM ----------

PLEASE post the full contents of the file you used ... please.I will then root & try.

is this what you used? And it resides in the /etc/ folder

NTP_SERVER=north-america.pool.ntp.org

XTRA_SERVER_1=http://xtra1.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin

XTRA_SERVER_2=http://xtra2.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin

XTRA_SERVER_3=http://xtra3.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tshoulihane:
Please - post signal strength numbers using https://market.android.com/details?id=com.chartcross.gpstest&feature=search_result

If you don't get a couple of satalites with a green signal (at least 4 or 5 over 30dB) then you don't have a good signal, even if you get a lock. Some will be red (closer to the horizon) and this is not a problem.

Changing time server settings should not have a significant effect. There isn't a lot of point playing with the settings if you're not going to make useful measurements!

Edit: Also, if you say 'the update', this is meaningless. Work out how to report the version number of whatever update it is that you have or keep it for the other thread please.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] zoro25:
Bingo.

Same thing here.

Update screwed my GPS performance.

Software and not hardware in my case
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Mustkeg:
Thanks for the hint.

Will check my gps.conf on my European Prime without GPS function later and report back.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Cloudfish:
I'm hoping this counts as "facts & research" and I'm not excoriated for my low post count. It seems someone has a tear down of the Prime, specifically revealing more on antenna locations for the Wifi and GPS.

I'm unable to post the link yet, so the only way I can direct you is for you to go to anandtech.com and enter "prime teardown" in the search. It should be your first result.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] fingery:
Thanks Cloudfish, good find.

Link below :

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5286/asus-eee-pad-transformer-prime-teardown
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BAD_BOY_KIEV:
FROM THE TEARDOWN WE GOT:

1) The antennas are not connected to the board via soldering they are just tighten to each other (this explains really well the story of Prime, which fell to the ground and start picking GPS signals much better).

2) Same thing explains some glitches in work in my opinion - when you move the device, some micro shifts may occur and that can influence signals as well.

I think that while long awaited software update will give it some boost, but maybe ensuring the firm contact between antennas and motherboard will give us more stable usage experience?

Update: I've the whole article - so maybe we should make a "speaker grill" near the camera? Or drill some "stripes" and make some rubber inserts? Will rubber block signals?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] chrisfu:
Ahh, the dreaded pogopins. We've not met since my days modding XBOX's for friends and family.

All I can say is, I'm not at all surprised some people have issues with GPS and/or Wifi reception if these little pieces of horrific tech are involved somewhere. They're not good, especially in what is a PORTABLE device.

Hell, you ran the risk of having to re-seat the modchip in an XBOX if you moved the console anywhere when you had one of those particular chips installed. In a a portable device it's simply just asking for trouble.

My Prime GPS hasn't ever seen a satellite, whether Wifi is on or off. Reboots and hard resets have never made a difference. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the pogopin for the GPS antenna isn't making the correct contact in my device, and is the sole cause of my GPS issue.

It wouldn't surprise me if many owners have 1 or more of the pogopins not making the correct contact with the antenna.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] cybik:
I'm seconding this. My Galaxy Nexus gets 7 satlocks on a specific window and my prime doesn't even detect the shadow of one.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] drkmtr:
Hey folks,

Further to my experiment last night, the advice given to me by Robomo, and the test protocol defined in the link in the first post, I have put together a video, evaluating the following...

TTFF from cold start

Signal strengths (stationary) compared with the TF101

Signal Strengths (whilst moving) compared with the TF101

Signal Tracking / Accuracy whilst moving, compared with the TF101 - using Locus with Offline Maps

Preset parameters (on both tablets)...

Airplane mode enabled

aGPS state cleared from "GPS Test" and "GPS Status"

Tablet restarted before Test

Weather conditions @ 1230hrs:

Rain and heavy cloud

Notes:

First off, please excuse the amateur filming. It was difficult to shoot consistently with 2 tablets in hand, and a mobile phone shooting the video. The video was shot using a HTC Sensation at 1080p, and no sound.

Video:

http://youtu.be/KBxTVfA7l3E

[YOUTUBE]KBxTVfA7l3E[/YOUTUBE]

Conclusion:

Hopefully, you will be able to see that the signal tracking on the TF101 is significantly better than that of TF201. The TF201 will hold a relatively poor lock whilst moving, but with the right sat nav software (which will snap to roads), navigation may be passable.

As previously mentioned, the TF201 should be sufficient for location based apps. I see a lot of people stating that they can get GPS signals from within their home. I think that it should be remembered that GPS in NOT intended to work indoors, and therefore shouldn’t really be considered seriously in that context. The fact that many devices can receive signals indoors, is a bonus IMHO.

Whilst in my case, I can get a signal and a (poor, if nothing else) lock, I do empathise with those who cannot get a lock at all, and I only hope that the cause their problem is substandard build quality, which can be rectified by an exchange.

Since reading updated posts, I am hopeful that the discovery of mis-configured (or empty!) GPSConf.cfg files will go a long way to improving GPS features when root for the TF201 becomes widespread.

I, personally, am resolute that I will be keeping my Prime, as at the moment, there is no other device in its class, and that means a lot to me - but, in saying that...if something better comes along....

I hope, again, this response has been of use.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BAD_BOY_KIEV:
Thanx mate! I can only add that there are no GPS devices made intended to work inside buildings. Cars are not buildings though)

P.S. Oh sorry, here we post only test and research(( delete my post please.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] drkmtr:
Eh!? Not sure what you mean here?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] robomo:
Awesome comparison! It's apparent it's navigation feature "works"... not well like the TF101 from the demonstration but it still got a lock. There's direct proof one can potentially navigate using the TF201 without hardware/software mods (assuming it works at all).

The question is now how to improve the 25-30m accuracy :rolleyes:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] drkmtr:
OK...quick update, not 100% sure on what it means yet, but...

I rooted my Prime earlier today, and did some digging about the forum on GPS.Conf issues from other devices. I backed up my original gps.conf file and replaced it with the one inside the europe.zip file located here http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1233359 and rebooted.

Now, given that (I believe) the settings within the GPS.Conf file pertain to aGPS, the tab rebooted with a WiFi connection, so I assume settings were downloaded prior to me taking it out; however, airplane mode was enabled before going out.

So, again, city based GPS reception will always be tentative, but this time, I noticed a significant increase in the amount of sats tracked. TTFF took just over 3 mins, with the following pic resulting...

Promising?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] drkmtr:
Thanks Robomo, :)

I am a bit sceptical about the accuracy information displayed in the GPS Test App, as it tends to vary wildly and is not as consistent as GPS Status.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
I really don't understand what this proves? I understand that it is POSSIBLE to have piss poor GPS functionality (navigation) with Prime(if you are the selective few who can get some satellite visibility)....

But, what does it prove? Until you fix the hardware issue, no matter how well you tinker the driver/software, it won't be comparable to reg. Transformer. I mean, can we all agree that until you tinker with the backplate.. the GPS broadcom chip inside the Prime will never fulfill its potential??
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] denverbuckeye:
Really? My iPad (non-3G, first generation), my Kindle Fire and my Asus EP121 can't be used as a GPS replacement.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] drkmtr:
I take it that you have a Prime in hand?

Are you willing to experiment with the backplate off?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
today, I changed mine to this which was taken from my Droid phone:

NTP_SERVER=north-america.pool.ntp.org

XTRA_SERVER_1=http://xtra1.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin

XTRA_SERVER_2=http://xtra2.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin

XTRA_SERVER_3=http://xtra3.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin

but with that link, they have

North America

as:

NTP_SERVER=north-america.pool.ntp.org

XTRA_SERVER_1=http://xtra1.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin

XTRA_SERVER_2=http://xtra2.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin

XTRA_SERVER_3=http://xtra3.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin

SUPL_HOST=supl.google.com

SUPL_PORT=7276

notice the extra 2 final lines in the one from the link you sent.. I might try that and see what happens.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
I do, but hoping to return mine to Gamestop (if I can find one that'll give me refund instead of exchange) as I require GPS.

And about backplate...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5286/asus-eee-pad-transformer-prime-teardown

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5285/asus-eee-pad-transformer-prime-gps-issue-explained
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] drkmtr:
Why have you quoted these links? They don't answer my second question.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] unknown_owner:
Here is the info in the gps.conf that I used. It is for North America only

NTP_SERVER=ntp.uiuc.edu

NTP_SERVER=fuzz.psc.edu

NTP_SERVER=timelord.w1nr.net

NTP_SERVER=ntp.pbx.org

NTP_SERVER=nist1-ny.ustiming.org

NTP_SERVER=nist1-nj.ustiming.org

NTP_SERVER=nist1-pa.ustiming.org

NTP_SERVER=0.us.pool.ntp.org

NTP_SERVER=1.us.pool.ntp.org

NTP_SERVER=2.us.pool.ntp.org

NTP_SERVER=3.us.pool.ntp.org

NTP_SERVER=0.north-america.pool.ntp.org

NTP_SERVER=1.north-america.pool.ntp.org

NTP_SERVER=2.north-america.pool.ntp.org

NTP_SERVER=3.north-america.pool.ntp.org

XTRA_SERVER_1=http://xtra1.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin

XTRA_SERVER_2=http://xtra2.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin

XTRA_SERVER_3=http://xtra3.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin

INTERMEDIATE_POS=1

C2K_HOST=c2k.pde.com

C2K_PORT=1234

SUPL_HOST=FQDN

SUPL_HOST=lbs.geo.t-mobile.com

SUPL_HOST=supl.google.com

SUPL_PORT=7276

SUPL_SECURE_PORT=7275

SUPL_NO_SECURE_PORT=3425

SUPL_TLS_HOST=FQDN

SUPL_TLS_CERT=/etc/SuplRootCert

ACCURACY_THRES=5000

CURRENT_CARRIER=common

DEFAULT_USER_PLANE=TRUE

REPORT_POSITION_USE_SUPL_REFLOC=1
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
wow, that is a hell of a lot more than what (1) my Droid phone has and (2) the example I saw and posted last page

I will try yours as well
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] drkmtr:
Thanks!

Wow! How has your gps experience been with that config? Any chance of posting some detailed feedback?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
I plan to try it for the hell of it... no harm as I now have 4 possible config files to test

thank God for root!!
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] GCurry:
Thanks for posting these. His review was one that influenced my purchase of the TF Prime, when he was looking at wifi performance. So I appreciate his apology for the oversight on GPS.

[As a matter of review methodology, it wouldn't be bad to use the official spec checklist as a review checklist, to prevent things "slipping the mind"]

He is very careful to keep this review positive. I imagine he wants to get the truth out without ticking off Asus. He did actually take his apart, which I also appreciate. Would be nice if he tested GPS with the back off while he was at it.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] unknown_owner:
Don't use the app Faster fix if you used a modified gps.conf. it will edit the gps.conf and wipe almost most of your entries. I also added this one to the long list above. Also if you modify the gps.conf it seems a good reboot may be required for best results.

NTP_SERVER=north-america.pool.ntp.org

So to recap I went from not seeing one freaking satellite in 3-4 hrs to seeing multiple satellites and getting a satellite fix in a little over 1 min (indoors standing at a windows with shades closed). Too cold to go outside. All this with the. 33 update and the modified gps.conf (thanks to root--and jcase). I'm content for now.

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
You posted 2 different configs... which one are you using that got you the results you quote? The first shorter one or the second longer one?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] unknown_owner:
Oh I definitely went with more lines.

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] MrGiggles:
The North America one should be fine for Canada correct? I did not see anything better on the other Thread..?

OK I have this all installed.. what do people want to see?

Video of myself driving around with it on and no WIFI? Or do you want me to go out into the middle of no where and see if it can find a satellite?

Edit. I will go drive out somewhere and video it trying to connect in airplane mode.. from cold boot..
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] unknown_owner:
Man, it's not worth you risking your life to bring anyone any video while driving. Just be safe, if it does what you want it to do, then that's enough.

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] robomo:
echoing this - first and fore most safety is of primary concern.

Yes, it *can* be done on your own, safely. You'll have to position the camera strategically and securely without holding it - the tablet secured on its own, and within super-easy reach and without making it too distracting.

Find a giant, straight stretch of quiet remote road to test on! Really helps.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tshoulihane:
Before and after signal strength info? By how much does this change improve things? Does it only help with no-lock or very slow lock?

My issue seems to be a mechanical one, causing weak signal, but I get a lock with no problems outside - just quite a lot weaker than is needed for reliable use.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] drkmtr:
Since rooting and updating my GPS.conf file (particularly with the additional parameters posted earlier by unknown_owner) I have noticed a significant improvement in TTFF, signal lock and accuracy. More sats seen, with higher SNR reception from each, even from inside.

Tracking during movement still seems a little tentative, but I'll have more time to better test it tomorrow.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wynand32:
If this ends up being a fix, then ASUS is going to be doubly embarrassed.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Wordlywisewiz:
I told you guys all along that this is not just the metal but also majorly the software
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BixBix78:
Anyone able to navigate offline yet?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jonboyuk:
I would LMFAO if this fixed it. Seriously.